If Jeremy Corbyn Is The Limit Of Our Imagination Then We Are Truly Fucked

spoilt-ballotJeremy fucking Corbyn.  Seriously?  It’s like finding out your old geography teacher just got made leader of the Labour Party.  The one you half remember, and then only because of that time he cried because some kid pissed in his slippers on the school camping trip.

If Jeremy Corbyn is the limit of our political imagination then we are well and truly fucked.  He might well be a nice bloke, but he is Labour to his core and the Labour Party have long been enemies of the kind of mass working class self-organisation that is needed if there is to be any meaningful change in our lives.  It is only a sign of how much ground we have lost that Corbyn is considered radical at all.  And as for those around him, well there will be no pleasure in watching him be kicked to death by his own side but that is what they will attempt to do.  Should he manage to stagger on for the next five years he will be so beaten down and stained by compromises that it will be a very different Corbyn who stands in the next general election.

That doesn’t mean it’s all doom and gloom, not by a long way.  Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves has gone already and good fucking riddance.  As have her Oxbridge chums Yvette Cooper and Tristram Hunt.  But there are vermin waiting in the wings, including the rumoured return of Liam Byrne.  Remember him?  Probably not, but he’s a cunt.

It will be where Corbyn stands on social security that will show the kind of direction that Labour is really about to take.  He has rightly condemned the Work Capability Assessment and claims to back groups like DPAC and Boycott Workfare who have taken action against welfare reforms.  But he has also voted for Labour’s Compulsory Jobs Guarantee, although admittedly as part of a package of measures.  Nice bloke then, shame about the workfare.  If Corbyn means what he says then Labour’s policy must be for an unconditional social security system.  No more workfare and no more sanctions.  And doctors and their patients deciding who is fit for work, not bureacrats at the DWP and Maximus private health sharks.

Since 2010 there has been a resurgence in collective direct action and grassroots campaigning that has won real results.  Whether property developers chased out of buying up housing esates and hiking rents or private companies like Atos handing back lucrative contracts in the face of widespread protests, politics has happened on the streets, estates, universities and workplaces.  If that energy and anger is now sucked into the Labour Party political machine it will be a disaster.  Corbyn himself could have a role to play in stopping that happening, but the temptation of the old left to control and dictate resistance will need to be hard fought.

An alternative is that Corbyn’s victory could ignite exactly the kind of struggle which is needed.  That we see this not as the road to a Labour government but as a sign that there is genuine hunger in the UK for change.  If half of the people who have attended Corbyn’s rallies had taken militant and disruptive action against workfare, the Bedroom Tax, or any of the raft of welfare reforms then they would have been stopped in their tracks and Iain Duncan Smith would be unemployed.  That’s not a whinge by the way, just a reflecton on what could be achieved if this weekend’s events are used as a springboard to create a radical working class movement with real teeth.  That cannot happen within the Labour Party, party politics is the road to defeat.  But it can happen and then we won’t need a party at all, we can do politics for ourselves.

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310 responses to “If Jeremy Corbyn Is The Limit Of Our Imagination Then We Are Truly Fucked

  1. I get the impression that you are bit more ambivalent/cautiously hopeful than this post appears to suggest? He was miles better than any of the others but yeah the Unions especially McCluskey get on my nerves too.

  2. Dunno about Corbyn – we’ll see. You’re right about Byrne, an utter bastard. But I can’t see him returning after Cameron made so much play of his no money left note. Only Ed Miliband was dumb enough to employ him.

  3. I think Jeremy Corbyn just shot your fox, if he even knows you exist. Bit sad really. He’s actually a bit more substantial than someone who just shouts a bit

  4. Ife he supports any kind of compulsory workfare then it’ll be a no way from me. I want to hear him condemning workfare, and all the leeches that have sucked it dry, in the strongest possible terms. Plus i want to hear him say sanctions will be a thing of the past.

    I won’t hold my breath! But yes there have been good things like getting rid of that Rachel Reeves. That in itself is cause for celebration!😀

    • raining – too right. Rachel Reeves gone is a good thing, but compulsory workfare and more sanctions for those who refuse, as you said, no way.

    • Raining – definitely – his heart seems to be in the right place – he stands up for what he believes in. Its good that Rachel Reeves has gone and rightly so. Fellow JCP Suffer/Customer – you are also right also
      He has got to go up against the Tory Government, austerity, IDS and the cruel treatment of the poor, the sick, the disabled and not forgetting all claimants.
      If he does not – then his political career as such, is dead in the water – and so is ‘Labour’ also. We would then have to endure many more years of Tory rule and all that that entails.

  5. WHAT ? I cannot believe what I am reading at present.
    At least Corbyn is a ‘true’ Labour – as they were when ‘Labour’ was first formed – designed to look after the ‘workers’ and the ‘poor’ and the ‘under-privelged’. Tony Blair’s Labour edged ever and ever over more to the ‘right’ – ending up in what we have now – ‘the Blairite Babes’ : Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper & Liz Kendall (not forgetting the harlot, Harriet Harman – (who would even delight in rubbing up to & kissing David Cameron’s ass).
    None of these cunts attacked Cameron and the Tories to any great extent. Even Yvette Cooper was one of those who fully supported the introduction of the Work Capability Assessment (she actually promoted it), which fully brought down the eventual wrath of IDS on those who could ill afford it.
    If you TRULY want Cameron & IDS to continue with their appalling policies – then you should NOT support Jeremy Corbyn.
    He is the only route out of the total shit that Cameron and his bastard Tories have produced.

  6. If you want EVEN more of what you have now – then definitely vote ‘Conservative’ – and then you will only have ‘yourself’ to blame!
    Bollocks to the Conservatives and Bollocks to Austerity.
    Bollocks to all M.P.’s – and finally – Bollocks to the House of Lords – the House of Loungers and Scroungers. They are all taking yours (and my) money to fund everything for themselves. Duck Houses, House-Moats, Office Equipment – Holidays, Expenses, Fiddled-Expenses, etc, etc. with no one to answer to, but their good selves.
    Fucking Bastards – let them work for what they get and not scrounge off of all of us hard working people.

  7. Raining – definitely right there – Rachel Reeves is best gone also – a Tory in Labour clothes – (as are most of the New Labour people) – gone, and very good riddance – Jeremy Corbyn is speaking from the heart – he is not doing it and speaking just to ‘get more votes’.
    He is the ONLY chance now of getting rid of ‘New Labour’ and all of the Tory principles that they ultimately stand for. (Hopefully also now he may be able to sort something out with the SNP too).

    • Paul: Tristram Hunt as well! Another one that would look right at home sitting alongside IDS & Cameron. Can’t fathom out why they didn’t just join the Tory party; they love all their policies so they might as well!

  8. I normally enjoy your blogs, but if you think attacking Corbyn on the day he was elected Labour leader is the way forward, perhaps you should apply for a job on the Sun

  9. I propose a newspaper called ‘The Daily Shirker.’ We need to REFUSE work, it isn’t good enough to just support people that CAN’T work. The system of forced labour is what is killing the planet. Kills the wages system, kill the money form, kill the value form.

  10. hicsalta – I suggest that you definitely do not vote or support the Conservatives. They will have you ‘working for no pay’ – working if you ‘cannot physically work’ – but you would have to ‘work’ anyway and also have you ‘working’ as long as you can – even up to 70 years old in the future – whether you can, or cannot! Not to worry – the employers would love you having to do that and the multinationals even more so!

  11. overburdenddonkey

    the catalans have got the right idea… http://www.thenational.scot/

  12. overburdenddonkey – good for them – that’s the way to do it! : )

  13. We must also remember that the hard graft of many people, people working at the grassroots over the last five years and more, constantly challenging the establishment and the ‘status quo’ each and every minute of every day has led to the position where Jeremy Corbyn’s election has happened. People who could have given up at the first set-back, people who’ve been ignored, derided, even physically attacked and arrested by the state for using their right to speak out and fight, people who refuse to be pushed to the margins or denigrated, invalidated by all that is being done to them every day. Most of the effective direct action and energy of grassroots campaigning is coming from people disillusioned with the whole partisan parliamentary system and we will continue to do things as we damn well please. This result is but a small piece of a larger jigsaw; if Corbyn turns into another Tspiras, then that energy continues with or without him or the Labour Party. What the last few years have shown, and indeed the actions of our ancestors before us, is that we do not NEED a party leader or party structure to stir the world’s grassroots, to generate those undercurrents and undertows that burst into the establishment like sudden maelstroms, scaring them and panicking them as we do so. That’s where our strength lies.

  14. I know you’re normally one of the angrier bloggers and often a welcome contrary voice at a time when ‘benefits’ is now a tawdry evening’s viewing on C5, but … you are quite wrong on this. Corbyn is about as radical as the current political system will allow. In the unlikely event that he’s allowed near power, he is the only one in a position to reverse 36 years of Thatcherism. Now you can mutter Class War slogans in your garret or you can back the one man who can shake up everything you’ve been ranting about. And his expenses are about £8.

  15. If anyone thinks Jeremy Corbyn will help the working person they WILL end up being VERY, VERY disappointed. He is a far right plant, another false prophet. What will he do, what is his purpose….To keep the very cosy and extremely profitable two party state in charge!.

    Ask yourself a simple question….What would a socialist be doing in the far right Labour party!, answer….NO socialist would join the Labour party.

    • overburdenddonkey

      annos
      many will say @ least something is happening, as is paint drying…

      • overburdenddonkey

        He may gain back lost seats in Scotland (BIG damage to the SNP), make others live in hope (where there was none before), keep the two party state in charge for another five years, add that to four more Tory years left!, that means nine more years of the same…. Mission accomplished.

    • Annos – at least there is a chance! If not – what have we got to look forward to? Another 5 years of a fucking Tory administration and all the shit that that involves. Blairite Labour after all will totally capitulate and agree with all that Cameron & Osborne is, and has been doing!

      • paultheswineherd

        “at least there is a chance!”….There is NO “chance.

        “If not – what have we got to look forward to?”….”nine more years of the same”

        Time will tell.

      • There is hope for this.

        A Political commitment to full employment achieved with decent jobs..
        A wage you can live on for all and a social security system that works to end poverty.
        No work conscription – keep volunteering voluntary.
        Representation for unemployed workers.
        Appoint an Ombudsman for claimants.
        Equality in the labour market and workplace; equality in access to benefits.
        And end to the sanctions regime and current Work Capability Assessment – full maintenance for the unemployment and underemployed.
        State provision of high quality information, advice and guidance on employment, training and careers.

        4 pages

        http://barnsleycsc.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/710X_WelfareCharter_A5_3.pdf

        • All predictable and conventional ‘appoint a leader minder (Ombudsman) to ‘represent’ this or that group.

          No group, the unemployed included needs anyone to represent them when they are quite capable of speaking for themselves directly to whomever. Unemployed workers could set up their own organisation, or they could join the IWW or SolFed, both of whom are more than happy to welcome unemployed workers as full members, and not to some kind of powerless ‘apartheid’ union like Unite Community.

          The IWW is cheapest, and can’t really be beaten at a quid a month for unemployed workers.

          https://iww.org.uk/

          It’s what you make of it, but don’t expect anyone to come and save you; you have to do that yourself, and having a union like the IWW on your side is something really worth having – we scare even workfare providers! (Can’t say too much about that aspect as yet, as that’s some really new information I’ve just received and we’re still waiting to see what the real situation is… More to follow at a later date I think)

    • Annos
      “What would a socialist be doing in the far-right Labour party?”
      Trying to drag it back to the left. (He’s kept the faith beyond the point when most others would’ve – and did – give up) Of course, when Corbyn joined, it WAS socialist. No socialists HAVE been joining lately, before Corbyn came along, but just you watch them join now!
      For Christ’s sake, give the guy a chance. Don’t do New Labour’s job for them! After having had no hope for ages, it’s a weird feeling to actually have some for a change, I know, but that’s no reason to freak out. Or is it more comforting and familiar to be a negative twat?!

      • overburdenddonkey

        tim
        no, the goal of socialism was abandoned in 1979 (if it ever truly politically existed that is) under ruthless pressure of the right/neoliberal continuance..
        politicians were/are drunk on power and a sense of entitlement…the labour party under corbyn will shrink even more so will be confined to shouting from the sidelines, although collusion might be abandoned… socialism has only can only ever come from grassroots, equal shares for all…socialism has no time nor gold for war, war destroys socialism…
        the kernel of socialism, redistribution of wealth, the welfare state and social housing, set up after ww2 is all but dismantled…
        there is need for millions of new eco homes in the uk, land rights, and a restoration of the welfare state without that there is no hope of socialism, with a strong emphasis on perma-culture…
        http://tlio.org.uk/welfare-reform-is-ending-the-bribe-for-the-theft-of-our-land/

      • Timfrom – as the late Tony Benn said, the Labour Party has never been a socialist party, but a party with socialists in it. If Corbyn is to deliver he will need to reach out to a far wider section of the voting population than Labour supporters or voters, indeed, if people such as myself are to get behind such a movement I would want to see revolutionary changes being proposed. I don’t think that will happen.

        I’m talking of such things as the abolition of government, the mass takeover of industry by workers themselves and not the state, which should also be abolished, along with notions of poverty and wealth in the ways that we currently understand things – there is more than enough wealth and productive capacity, (and increasingly so through automation) to provide for a good standard of life for all. There are many hurdles, but none that human imagination can’t deal with.

        Corbyn is only a man, not a messiah, and unless we get out there and start making our demands, loud and clear and unequivocally, the train ain’t going nowhere.

      • Couldn’t agree more timfrom – he is resetting the agenda and talking about anti-austerity, I wish someone of the Labour Party would have had the guts to speak up and deliver such a package before the general election but maybe it took all that defeat for a complete shake up, long overdue

    • The only thing Jeremy Corbyn is interested in is getting a good deal for public sector workers. Those forced to work for poundland etc can go to hell as far as he is concerned. You are right power should go to the people providing you do not let the right wing idiots rule (that is if you can class them as people)

      • So perhaps Poundland workers and the like should join a union and get active, then perhaps they will get their voices heard and won’t be ignored?

        • Your faith in unions is very naïve, especially when they do deals in the back room with business and the state apparatus (who need business to pay their salaries).

          They need a majority voice in parliament to pass laws that look after their needs, they need a ‘PEOPLE PARTY’, not a propaganda or pragmatic party.

          • Not my union, the IWW doesn’t. There is no way in the world that the IWW would do a deal in the back room. It simply couldn’t anyway, as it’s run by workers, has no paid bureaucracy and all decisions have to be made by the membership.

  16. Jeff Black – you are right also.
    The only alternatives are at the moment are:
    1) Cameron & the Tories – more of the same and probably worse – if not stopped. the Tories – all for the rich and the multinationals/ the utilities/ the energy companies. Against the sick/the disabled/the poor & all ‘claimants’.
    2) ‘New Labour’ – a hotch potch of MP’s who are essentially ‘Blairite’ in their philosophy – not left wing, not even centre – but right of centre (verging into Tory policies). Pre 2010 Election – their policies were veyr similar to the Tories. The Conservatives when they entered power, effectively copied them, but made them very much worse especially for the poor and the disadvantaged.
    3) Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour – very much left windg – anti Tory & anti-austerity – supporting the poor, the sick, the disabled and claimants.
    4) The SNP – Against the Tories – very similar to Jeremy Corbyns policies (except that Corbyn would like to see a Scottish ‘Labour’ resurgence).
    I forecast that this is NOT going to happen – my guess is that Scotland, will and rightly so (in my own opinion) will go completely independent by 2020.
    5) ‘Others’ – No chance – too small to make any significant difference.
    Our only chance at the moment as it stands is Jeremy Corbyn – he is the only one, 9apart from the SNP) who is determined to fight this terrible and cruel Tory Government that we have in power.

    • paultheswineherd – A good summary, within the constraints of the format. Nice one! How you can hold those views and still agree with your “friends” like OBD and Fallow JCP is beyond me!

  17. “we won’t need a party at all, we can do politics for ourselves.”

    So how do we that, Johnny Void?
    ~ How do we make the super rich return their assets (properties, off shore accounts, etc.) back to the rest of us?
    ~ How do we tax them without a central taxation system?
    ~ How do we turn corporations into worker cooperatives?
    ~ How do we globally shut down the Stock Exchange & what banking system shall we replace it with?
    ~ What infrastructure shall we use to operate People’s Banks?

    Also, how are people busy raising kids, working, caring for others or just tending to their health conditions find the time to do politics for themselves?

    • If you’re not doing politics for yourself then you’re losing out, because sure as hell no-one else is doing politics for you.

      That’s not to say that you might not need help to do your own politics, which is really all you need if you’re busy raising kids, caring for others or tending to your health needs.

      It’s called anarchism.

  18. Tories now target prisons and children in care. amongst other things.

    In a speech outlining the government’s approach to the autumn spending review, in which George Osborne will outline £20bn of cuts, the prime minister will cite children in care services and prisons as “standout areas” for reform.

    The prime minister will show he is prepared to embark on controversial reforms when he pledges to introduce legislation to allow the three emergency services – fire, police and ambulance services – to combine back office functions and IT.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/11/david-cameron-promises-fresh-shakeup-of-public-services#_=_

  19. The choices are very simple you either keep the conservatives in power with the deaths of the sick and disabled or you vote left wing to save their lives
    that is it anything in between will cause their deaths or their non existence the fudging are now over the country goes either to the extreme left with corbyn or the extreme right with Cameron with deaths of the sick and disabled and wars which destroy other countries

    that will be the peoples choice at the next election pure and simple

  20. SNP manifesto to reveal possible second referendum timetable

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34234024

  21. stevecheneysindieopinions4u

    Next time someone tells me that Corbyn represents the “far-left” I will show them this blog.

  22. I am an anarchist, i want the whole system down.. but corbyn is the best of a bad bunch. I still think all politicians are corrupt conmen.. he is better than blair and brown, better than cameron.

  23. It’s a shame that so many, who profess to be ‘of the left,’ seem to shout loudest and with most expletives when we have, at last, a Labour leader who might shift politics away from neoliberal oblivion.

    Within one of your less abuse-riddent paragraphs you write of ‘the people’ rising up and grasping the nettle; well perhaps this is a tentative first prod. The rise of Mr Corbyn appears to have re-engaged many who had pretty much given up hope. And I, amongst others, wish him well.

    • overburdenddonkey

      martin
      do you really think that home owners are going to encourage the mass building of social housing, a restoration of the welfare state and give up their economic (inflation sink + very low interest rates) advantage over others, that thatcher handed them on a plate for very obvs reasons…? the maintenance of a constituency based 40% thereabouts of a uk wide right wing voter pool, ensures right wing endurance…

      • I do take your point here, but I am also a home owner. But ‘just’ a home owner, I do not seek any advantage by this. In fact this deliberate manipulation of house prices angers me beyond words. I find no advantage or pleasure in watching my own children struggle with over-inflated rents, charged by crooked landlords. I am one home owner amongst many who would rejoice at the mass building of social housing.

        • Being a home owner does have it’s advantages, you do not have to pay rent forever, you are not subjected to bedroom tax or be forced to downsize because the house is not your own, even though you may still use extra rooms for friends and grandchildren staying.
          You can use it as collateral to secure loans etc. need I go on?

          • I don’t believe that I ever implied that being a home owner didn’t have its advantages. I was merely hoping to state that not all home owners are delighted to see the housing market manipulated to suit certain factions in society, at huge expense to others. I know it has its advantages, but I personally do not seek to gain through a divided working population. You do not need to go on.

  24. Give the guy a chance for fuck sake … Yes, I think he may fail or row back his policies in the face of vicious attacks from the Blairites and the MSM. Simon Dancuck was on the radio earlier saying that he would defy Corbyne and vote against the Labour whip on every policy he didn’t like. But lets see if or how Jezza will oppose the Tories in Parliament. Give him exactly one year and if he sells out, as I suspect he will, then fuck him.

    Also, seems that Osborne has gone a courting … He wants Liz Kendall to walk across the floor (of Paliament) and join the Tories. Go Georgie, go!

  25. It brings back the memories to see my old geography teacher Jeremy or ‘Jez’ as we called him behind his back being elected leader of the Labour party.

  26. Jeremy Corbyn’s leader of the Labour Party. Hooray! Hooray!! Or if you’re Russian, Ypa! Ypa!! Life’s gonna git bitter, bitter fer everyone, exceptin The Rich. Corbo will tax dem fuckers to the hilt while increasing our benifid munny and building a society to be proud of; a true Socialist Utopia. Oh baby, Oh baby it’s gonna get good, in five years time. Oh baby… Pssst. I’m so happy I’m gonna go and listen to me Ronettes Greatest Hits cd. Oh baby!

  27. At odds of 500-1, I just wish I’d put a ton on the bearded old fucker. By now I’d have fifty grand and could’ve bought my council flat for a third of its market value. I’d have then been a fully paid up member of the Great British Propery Owning Democracy, and after a few years I could have sold up and fucked off to Corfu.
    Hindsight is a motherfucker, isn’t it. My one chance ov avvin sum facking manny an I’ve fakkin blown it ain’t I. FUUUUCK!!

  28. Here’s a good article I’ve just found!
    http://www.talktalk.co.uk/news/uk/article/zero-chance-of-successful-coup-against-jeremy-corbyn/181357/

    However, as Geoff said on one of is posts yesterday – stand by for all-out war to be declared on him by the right-wing tabloids. The Sun, The Mail & the Telegraph in particular will probably be leading the attack. (probably beginning tomorrow – Monday)

  29. Nobody told me that the jobcentreminus are branching out into deepest, darkest Africa. Oh, notice that the cheery, bright music used on this video clip is almost identical to the music on those videos from that medical lunatic David Rahman…

  30. The Animal Jobcentre.

  31. Some Mothers Do Ave Em – Series 1 – Ep 7 – The Employment Exchange

  32. Simple question to you Johnny, and others – What can you suggest that’s more likely to help the people who you (supposedly) want to help? You’ve come up with FUCK ALL so far……

    • I suggest you read the last two paragraphs again

      • I did. Let’s distill it down to the last statement – “…we won’t need a party at all, we can do politics for ourselves”. Of course you can do politics because that’s just bullshit, and you’ve proved you can do that! The question is…… How do you propose to do government?

        • I don’t want to do government. I’m opposed to capitalism and the state. Doesn’t mean I;m not a realist and think that’s just around the corner but that doesn’t mean I’m about to throw away my politics just because some beardy social democrat has been elected to run a neo-liberal party. This will end in tears, you’ll see. In the meantime encourging people to do politics for themselves – whch has led to the climate that made Corbyn happen – continues to be the best route to a genuinely transformative political movement. If that is now abandoned in the chase for a Labour election victory then it would be a disaster. As I said.

          • “I don’t want to do government. I’m opposed to capitalism and the state.”

            So you have NO FUCKING IDEA about how to make sure your kids are educated, or your Mum gets health care, or your bins are collected.

            Johnny, like most of your contributors, you need to grow up! Are you going to ban me for telling you the OBVIOUS FUCKING TRUTH?

            • Do government’s educate kids? I thought teachers did that.

              • That’s it??? That’s your ENTIRE argument against having any government or state? Wow!!!!!

              • We can go just with your ‘views’ on education if you like. It misses the point but let’s give it a try. Do you want to go back to the times when the state had nothing to do with education, and the only kids who got any schooling were those with very rich parents? If so, the chances are that you wouldn’t even be able to read this!

                • We don't need no edukashun

                  “state education” is a load of shite anyway, just a ‘day prison’ for kids, teachers have even admitted this. A kids time could be spent a lot more productively than going to school. Schools also foster bullying, 50% of school-kids are bullied are being bullied at any one time; lots of schoolkids attempt or commit suicide.

                  And they don’t teach you to read either – you teach yourself to read. If, like probably a lot of those reading this blog, if I hadn’t taught myself to read I wouldn’t be reading this blog. Schools are archaic institutions that only cater for the needs of the Victorian mill-owner, and should be closed down.

                • We don't need no edukashun

                  And another thing, the whole objective of ‘schooling’ is not knock the confidence out of kids. Let’s not get all misty-eyed over ‘schools’ and ‘teachers’.

                • We don't need no edukashun

                  * And another thing, the whole objective of ‘schooling’ is to knock the confidence out of kids. Let’s not get all misty-eyed over ‘schools’ and ‘teachers’.

                • We don't need no edukashun

                  And there are only two places you are required to be by LAW, one is prison, and the other one is… can you guess…. yes… school!

                • “And there are only two places… (etc.)” – That is both irrelevant and factually wrong.

          • So you’re against the state, don’t do governments & people should just do politics by themselves, Johnny Void.

            Congratulations! You’ve just fulfilled every capitalist’s wet dream. The dream of passive, disorganised & nihilistic masses who don’t bother to vote, let alone plot any real plans to reclaim & redistribute wealth.

            Oh wait, you think inequality gets solved by masses of people protesting? Well that’s a start. But it’s not solving the fucking problem, is it?

            Let’s say, we managed occupy & electronically wipe out every transaction on the stock exchange. All investment bankers are jumping up & down, bleat about multi billion losses but can no longer trade, save their wealth or reclaim lost data. Phwoar – that’s MY wet dream! But then what?

            What do we replace the market economy with? How do we ensure any speculative “debts” won’t continue to get exerted from consumers, claimants, governments, businesses or the starving 3rd world? What economic structures do we use to invest in businesses? Or do we stop lending money to develop businesses with, Johnny Void?

            How shall we get benefits, or perhaps even a Basic Income, without using governments? Or shall only the fittest survive? Those who managed to break in & steal from rich people’s homes?

            See, it’s easy to protest AGAINST something. But it’s so much harder to build up & replace faulty systems with better ones.

            So much easier then to slag off other people’s efforts. Like you do with Corbyn, just because he works from within the government. A government you deserted to leave for others to run.

            • plebrise – Absolutely fucking spot-on! Sadly your time and thought is rather wasted, because you won’t get any comprehension or rational replies from Johnny or his deranged acolytes……

        • overburdenddonkey

          el
          ‘You’ve come up with FUCK ALL so far’…… you always say that and always dismiss the many solutions that have been offered, but NEVER come up with alt solutions yourself, except to distract and default to corbyn, and whinge about the solutions others offer, which is a cop out, he’s not the messiah btw…
          so what are your solutions….?
          how to you propose to wrestle power off, pursued the power holders to change their minds, and give up their economic power, the right wing constituency 40% thereabouts voter pool, that blair dare not offend, nor will many current lab mp’s, ie homeowners/uk stakeholders/portfolio holders, buck the markets, and change their minds into thinking sharing and wealth distribution is a good thing…
          i’m sure they’re going to give up the power thatcher gave them, let economic equality prevail give up their comfortable/ing economic advantage,and end economic apartheid, NOT…it ain’t gonna happen…the kernel of socialism has already been dismantled, and/or in the process of…
          the main question incumbent on corbyn, is how does corbyn propose to get INTO government….?

          • (He”s a very naughty boy).

          • obd
            Only a fucking moron gives their money/property or any advantage economic or otherwise that they have away – it ain’t gonna happen. Human beings are selfish by nature, they will ensure that they are their families interests come first; the vested interests will ensure that the status quo which benefits them will continue. Trying to buck this is just pissing in the wind.

          • OBD – “the main question incumbent on corbyn, is how does corbyn propose to get INTO government…”
            Are you an idiot? By winning a general election…… (which by ‘coincidence’ is also the answer to your first question!)

            • The selfish and greedy do not just want enough to feed and look after their families, they want to hoard money and gold and use and exploit the poor.

              We could have an economy that makes sure everyone has enough as the communist manifesto states, but the greedy always want more.

              If people had what was according to their needs and gave according to their ability we most certainly would have the perfect world economy.

              Sadly that which we know of as communism was not run like that in the countries that adopted it, the oligarchs were greedy for money, status and power and there efforts to have equality were thwarted by capitalist nations that wanted to maintain a greedy, capitalist system.

              • You don’t persuade the rich to give up their excess wealth accrued from the dodgy capitalist system, you force them through revolution and a sound political and economic structure.

  33. If Jerermy Corbyn by some utter divine miracle can force Drunken The Clown out of his job, scrap all benefit sanctions, scrap the work programme, scrap the bedroom tax, scrap the austerity cuts, scrap and throw out the MPs extravagent expense racket – then it might even get a non-voter like myself finally believing in an otherwise fucked-up political system.

    Until the day finally dawns that JC does ALL of these things in one whole swoop, only then will I feel relieved that the monster Drunken the clown is gone for good and his nasty attacks against the sick, disabled and poor have finished and people slowly start to regain their confidence, ability and self-worth.

    • Fen – “If Jerermy Corbyn by some utter divine miracle can force Drunken The Clown out of his job… (etc.)”
      You don’t even have a fucking clue how UK democracy works, do you?

      • When you stop slagging me off by resorting to abuse and insults for no reason whatsoever, I will respond to you in a civil manner to your baseless accusation and lack of proof that your claim that I don’t know anything about UK democracy.

        • [Sigh] – I’ll explain it in simple terms for you, because you obviously don’t understand…… IDS can only be removed from his job by the Prime Minister, the electorate, resignation or death, not by Corbyn.

        • P.S. I believe that also in theory the House of Commons can remove a minister from their job, but I’m not sure if it’s ever happened.

  34. I agree with some of what you said but not all. People always look to a leader to take the initiative. We haven’t had a decent labour leader for years. Jeremy is just that, a good leader now lets see how the people rally around him to make this work. We do need change and I’m all for supporting him to make it

    • I’m wondering if EG, instead of trying to wind my back up again, has a full and detailed list of Corbyn’s policies to present to me that any one of these policies which could persuade me to go in favour and make me vote for once.

      • Corbyn has a full list of Corbyn’s policies. Go and look for them yourself, you lazy shit!

        • You asked me what I think of JC’s policies. At least youcould have enlighted me yourself with them and try to change my point of view. Looking up his policies himself is not enough for me to make a political decision on who to follow. Better for me to be persuaded into a certain mindset (which could benefit me) from another person than relying on other means.

        • Do you support Corbyn and Labour? Did you vote them in yourself? I would like to hear from you your political party of choice before asking me of mine.

          • Yes, I paid £3 and voted for Corbyn.

            • So you have admitted on here for the record that you voted in Corbyn to challenge the tories and hopefully get them out by or before the 2020 election.

              What, if any policies have you got that you would either like Labour to carry out, change, or fight against? Or have you got any of your own policies that you would want to do yourself if you were in the party in overal control of the fucked-up political system. I would like you to put your money where your mouth is on this subject.

            • If you have got any sensible policies of your own then that you would persoanlly carry out, would you list them in detail on here in the order of importance is is that a subject not up for any reasonable, swearing and abuse-free discussion with any other person on this website?

              • Fen – The only political policies we can personally carry out is to use our brains and our votes. You have clearly decided to use neither!

                “So you have admitted on here for the record that you voted in Corbyn to challenge the tories and hopefully get them out by or before the 2020 election.” – Errrmmmm…… that’s not an admission!

                P.S. If you don’t like people swearing, then you’re on the wrong web site! If you haven’t noticed the plentiful usage of “fuck” and “cunt” etc. in Johnny’s blogposts then you obviously never read them!

  35. first time i had any disagreement with your postings….what a time to strike a discordant line….the fact that he will seek to get rid of Nuclear weapons alone, is reason enough to clap our hands…..otherwise we are on a count down to incineration.

  36. Corbyn is not perfect but he is a lot better then Blair or Milliband.

  37. Thought that you made a complete cunt of yourself johnny, get a job with the Daily Mail.
    You managed to kick the chair of hope from all your contributotors.

    HOLD YOUR HEAD IN SHAME

    • and this is how it starts. Anyone who criticises the Labour machine is now a Tory, and a cunt. Anyone who attacks his piss weak social democracy from the left is a traitor to the Party. Off we all go to the centre, the spirit of radicalism and sorting this shit out for ourselves extinguished, vote Labour, with illusions.

      • Poor reply Johnny, you have exposed yourself to be a supporter of the likes of Burnham, Kendall and Cooper.
        Live in your Blairite fantasy , johnny, or wrap in altogether

        • Burnham’s about to get a shadow cabinet job isn’t he? And yet I’m the one supporting him by saying fuck the Labour Party.

        • ffs GEOFF all Cor-ban talks about is ‘nuclear weapons’, ‘refugees’, ‘women’ and utter shite such as ‘women-only rail carriages’, no mention of an unconditional social security system . What are you hoping for GEOFF, that the ‘disabled lobby’ will be able to wring a few ‘concessions’ out of a (Corbyn-led) Labour Government? The same disabled lobby who were urging us to vote Labour in General Election 2015.

          Johnny is right; for vast swathes of the population politics is a lost cause; it will sap your energy and lead you to a dead-end; better to focus your energy and time on a more ‘grass roots’ approach.

          • overburdenddonkey

            grassroots
            ‘it will sap your energy and lead you to a dead-end; better to focus your energy and time on a more ‘grass roots’ approach’…. i highlight this for an EXACTLY!!! and agree with the rest of your post….

          • Corbyn’s words resonate with the people of the UK.
            For the first time in generation Corbyn has managed to unite the feelings of the UK undecided with that of the real grassroots labour movement..

            If you can’t hack it, vote tory or ukip.

      • And how do you propose to sort this shit out, Johnny Void? By protests alone? You haven’t given any clear answers, plans or strategies.

        • Plebrise – there are plenty of websites that outline anarchist approaches to solving fundamental human problems in a way that is non-hierarchical, non-statist and anti-capitalist. I don’t think this blog is the place for a detailed discussion of how to run a society – much better to get out there and start to do what some of us have already started to do, to support others, to exchange ideas, talk about things, take time out to imagine better ways of living that don’t involve consuming two planets’ worth of resources, that recognises that there are sufficient resources to provide a more than decent life for everyone on the planet, and about half as many again before even beginning to think about greater production.

          For a start you could do some basic reading up as to how people start to organise industry when the economy has collapsed completely and the boss has run away owing you many months of wages, and the banks have closed because they have literally run out of money. Read about the fabricas recuperadas in Argentina, and similar ventures in Greece, France and Turkey. Read about AS Neill’s Summerhill and Ivan Illich on educating people for life. It doesn’t stop there, and there are so many more ideas out there about how to run a society, and do you know what? None of them require experts, or professionals in the accepted sense. Look at the burgeoning open source hardware movement and especially Open Source Ecology http://opensourceecology.org/

          Instead of having a go at someone because they dare to think outside the box, try asking a few questions as to how a possible future society could be that doesn’t rely on the grotesque exploitation of both people and the planet.

          • “Instead of having a go at someone because they dare to think outside the box…”

            I don’t think being against the state is remotely daring, sibrydionmawr. On the contrary, I find this mindset utterly predictable. Especially amongst homogenised “we think we’re radical, but we all think the same” anarchists circles.

            It’s easy to say, fuck the state & fuck everyone who tries to change anything from within a system, like Corbyn does. What’s harder to admit is that change, any change does not just come from one source.

            Change comes from every direction. From within the system, outside the system, sideways, technological, legal, ecological, underneath, underworld, heck, even from above, with venture capitalists like Nick Hanauer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2gO4DKVpa8

            Change does not just come from us protesters. If it did, then we would have changed the world a long time ago. Sadly, the reality is that despite DPAC’s 5 years of endless campaigning the ILF closed down. And that’s just one of too many examples which prove, time & time again, that protesting alone just isn’t enough.

            This is why I find it unhelpful when Johnny Void slags off Corbyn without bothering to offer any other solutions than – more grass root protests!

            Don’t get me wrong, I love Johnny Void’s blog. I wholeheartedly agree with him 99% of the time. And I think it’s important that he flagged up how Corbyn & Caroline Lucas voted in favour of compulsory job guarantee.

            But we need to start plotting solutions & workable systems. Instead of clinging to the idea that protests change everything.

          • Ops, forgot to thank you for the link to open source ecology, sibrydionmawr. http://opensourceecology.org/

  38. “vOTE LABOUR, WITH ILLUSIONS” your words not mine Johnny…………….

    About time you put your cards on the table and exposed who you really support.

    • ………………………uness that is, the government have succeeded in breaching the security of your blog, by using derogatory comments aimed at upsetting your subscribers.

      Let us know, your validity is at stake.

    • overburdenddonkey

      i didn’t read it like that geoff, i read it as you’re deluded if you vote labour…in other words compromise what you really think need and want from politics… being governed and/or led by others…

      • So i am deluded for voting LABOUR?

        Had the SNP been available in Nortth Yorkshire, i would have obliged.

        I am starting to have grave reservations about this website……..

        • overburdenddonkey

          the only thing that’s not deluded aboot voting snp is the drive for indyscot and do you think that corbyns coronation is going to firm up the drive for indy, i do…

          • Hope so, unless the guy can counter the reason for you to break away

            • overburdenddonkey

              that’s the point he won’t, and he doesn’t stand a cat in hells chance of being 2020 pm…and what’s with the shock and indignation jv’s an anarchist…

              • Sturgeon and Corbyn, keep your fingers crossed……………..

                • Do you think the landslides for the SNP and for Corbyn were about luck? You don’t think there’s any connection?

                • overburdenddonkey

                  the tories are in govt and they will be for a very long time…

                • I don’t care who gets in government power by or before 2020 just as long as they get rid of the Tories who have attacked the less well-off in this country for the last five or so years.

                • Fen – “I don’t care who gets in government power by or before 2020 just as long as they get rid of the Tories”
                  Can you not see the fundamental stupidity of that statement?

              • JC is like 68, so 73 at GE2020, 78 at the end of his first term and 83 to complete a second term…. and 88 to complete a third term! Still, the Queen is still on the go and she must be well over 200 by now!

              • Quite OBD, it’s what his avatar means, innit?

        • “I am starting to have grave reservations about this website……..”
          Just STARTING???

  39. If anybody would have said that the people in the Labour party would vote for a left winger to be the leader i would have laughed in their face.
    This is a beginning it gives hope to the millions that are worried but it will take time people will need to be active and perhaps a member of the party. Send letters and see where they stand on polices and suggest what you would do to overcome the fears of the Majority of the people because unless we come up with answers to the problems of the day this Government won’t get in so it will remain the same … just a talking shop.
    we all need a fairer society to where we are all included. The rich people no longer control us we now have a party to really put the screw in … Lets help them do it we have 4 years to grow into a peoples party But it needs all of us to say how/when and where otherwise we will have the same old party with the same useless people.
    Our song should be ‘Walls come tumbling down’ by the style council play it loud and lets get motivated .

    • Uhm, no he didn’t. And to claim Corbyn used violence in this incident is to spread lies, Ind.

      An irritated Corbyn simply muttered “get out of the way” to journalists (more like paparazzi) trying to block him from cycling. This really is a no story, Ind. So what’s your reason for replacing its original title with smears?

  40. Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    I was a bit shocked with JVs thread post. Like you have given in & given up JV. The Tories fear Corbyn more than the other three losers & also Brown & milibrand. I used to live in Camden which is right next door to Islington. What it causes is a political shake up of fear of the truth. Corbyn wants to scrap the way the Welfare reform is done & replace it with fairness & truths. His fisrt thing he wants to do is change PMQs by Wednesday because on Wednesday Cameron will faulter badly like ever Wednesday after. It is not celebrity PMQs with Twitter feeds with LOL. Politicians on all sides are really pissed off Corbyn won. Corbyn is the best hope of sorting out the Welfare Reform before the 2020 Election. Corbyn will be talking to the UN investigating the Welfare Reform Human Rights breaches. So who is not fit for purpose Cameron or Corbyn !!!!!

    They all knew the jews were being killed off in WW II but no one did anything about it for years. Same with IDS killing machine with WCA.

    • Wow Stepping! You should post more like that! I thought you just posted loads of drivel. I was wrong.

    • Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

      Does not means I vote or like anything to do with poll a tricks.

      DISABILITY IS NOT A POLITICAL ISSUE IT IS A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE.

      • ”DISABILITY IS NOT A POLITICAL ISSUE IT IS A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE”.

        I’m with you on this, Stepping Razor. It’s about time the nazi tories stopped treating the sick, poor and disabled as (in other words) an issue swept under the carpet and will go away if they (tories) ignore it, look the other way and whistle ‘the saints go marching in’.

        Bastards when they closed down all the remploy establishments and left the people whom were previously employed in these places basically out in the cold and no more proper care and support to see them through life.

  41. Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    The biggest threat to National Security is IDS & his Human Rights Beaches.

    Also the threat of cuts to Operation Trident.

  42. Exactly right Razor, I think the bullies are about to get a taste of their own medicine and Cameron better start taking some anger management classes because he has had an easy ride over the last 5 years and now someone is going to give him (and the rest of his cronies) a few home truths. It’s really great as well to see Tom Watson as the Labour Deputy Leader.

    I think the majority of people who visit these sites are directly affected by some of the cruel policies which attack the poorest members of society. My hope is that these issues which hardly ever seem to make it into the mainstream media will now have a wider audience and the truth of a lot of injustice will filter out and people can see just what is really going on in 21st Century modern Britain.

    It is definitely interesting how a few of the alternative sites seem to be sticking the knife into Corbyn and the guy has only just got his foot in the door.

  43. Some people are never happy. If Johnny Void had a new party, one man and his dog and maybe his nan would vote for him. And what good would that do any of us?

    Corbyn is our best hope.

  44. I’ve always enjoyed Johnny’s posts, but how old is he? Thirteen and a quarter? Time to grow up now. Britain will never be an anarchist society with everyone holding hands and singing songs.

    Corbyn is the best thing any of us could have hoped for! Some of us, including me, really are in the shit at the moment.

    • I suspect that Johnny doesn’t really believe any of the anarchist crap he writes, but sadly many of his readers do. I don’t think Johnny is thirteen, or the radical he pretends to be, I think it’s FAR more likely that he’s 40+ and very comfortably affluent.

    • I don’t really agree with anarchy myself, not sure I agree with capitalism, unless members of society agree to responsible by the citizens, which they certainly are not today. I don’t agree with communism either. Is suppose I agree with a kind of individualism state, but not one driven by the importance of money, one driven by the importance of its people and the welfare of them, but one that puts defence at its heart, and not attack and greed.

      • Yes! Let’s have a government of cute kittens armed with nuclear missiles!

      • Maria, that’s about the best description of an anarchist I’ve seen! And no, I’m not taking the piss. Though all we need is the people, not any kind of state, which is always going to be against our interests, but you already intuitively know that.

  45. johnny void is right If that ouija board socilaism is the limit of our imagination then we are truly fucked.

    Is there anybody there? … the ghosts of Arafat and Benn.

    • You might get thatcher the milk snatcher through your ouija sessions rise from the dead and scare the living hejebes out of any non-voter like me into actually voting Tory for another 50 years…

  46. Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    See how quick Yvette Cooper, Liz Kendall, Tristram Hunt, Mary Creagh, Rachel Reeves, Chris Leslie, Jamie Reed, Emma Reynolds and Shabana Mahmood give up & join the Tory Party.

  47. It’s just been announced that Mary Creagh is also not serving in JC’s administration. I wonder who is going to be the shadow Works & Pensions Secretary – thanks goodness it is not Rachel Reeves! She’s gone!
    Fen & Stepping Razor – both of you are right there!

  48. “HOW TO RECYCLE STOLEN MONEY”

    One in three GPs who are running new organisations that are about to be given £65bn of the NHS’s budget also help run or hold shares in a private healthcare firm, a study shows.

    The disclosure has sparked concern that such widespread conflicts of interest will threaten patients’ trust in GPs, who they may see as lining their own pockets out of public funds.

    Overall 426 (36%) of the 1,179 family doctors on a board of one of the 211 clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) in England have an interest in for-profit firms, including those providing common NHS services such as diagnostics, minor surgery and out-of-hours GP care, an investigation by the British Medical Journal (BMJ) found.

    I wonder which cabinet ministers and high ranking government toss bags have shares in ATOS and MAXIMUS, CAPITA and SEETEC?

    • “CAMERONS KILLING MACHINE”

      In the meantime, my partner requires urgent surgery which she would like carried out at Addenbrookes, the nearest hospital with an appropriate specialist centre and a proven level of expertise. Sitting by a poster in his office on Monday this week proclaiming NHS CHOICES in big block letters, her GP told her her only “choice” was to have the surgery at Milton Keynes with whom they have an “exclusive” contract, despite it being further from home, there being only one surgeon, and where there is currently a wait list of four months as opposed to two weeks at Addenbrookes.
      ……………………………………………………………………………………………………
      But, like I say, this has been known by the media for months but they have deliberately chosen to say nothing.
      ……………………………………………………………………………………………………….

      For example, six of the eight GPs on the board of Blackpool CCG have an interest in Fylde Coast Medical Services, the local out-of-hours provider
      ……………………………………………………………………………………………………

      Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): If the Prime Minister’s Government succeed in closing four A and E departments in west London, those departments will be replaced by privately owned clinics and out-of-hours services. Some of those leading the closure programme have already profited by up to £2.6 million each from their ownership of those primary care services. Does he think that personal financial gain should debar GPs and others from taking part in decisions on hospital closures?

      • A ‘Newsletter’ on my GP’s surgery notice board informs any patient who requires a letter of support for appeal against an ATOS decision will not be
        provided.

        Quote:”The DWP uses different criteria in their assessments and we feel that to refuse such a report for one patient and provide one for another can lead to an accusation of favouritism and a breakdown of the doctor-patient relationship….However if a patient feels that a decision was based on incorrect information, the patient can request a complete copy of their notes for the usual fee of £50.

  49. Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    Jeremy Corbyn has named John McDonnell shadow chancellor and defeated leadership candidate Andy Burnham shadow home secretary.

    Hilary Benn will be shadow foreign secretary, while Lewisham MP Heidi Alexander takes the health brief.

    Lord Falconer will be shadow justice secretary, while Angela Eagle is shadow business secretary.

    • “FALCONER”

      UK forces should not have gone into Iraq in 2003, according to Lord Falconer, one of Tony Blair’s closest allies during the build-up to war.

      The former Lord Chancellor told the BBC: “We didn’t find weapons of mass destruction there and that was the basis by which we went in.

      “So on that basis, we weren’t right to go in.”

      The existence of chemical and biological agents in Iraq had been a key justification for the invasion.

      Lord Falconer shared a flat with former prime minister Tony Blair during their time as young barristers in the 1970s and was a close friend and confidant, as well as a minister, during his time in government.

  50. Please forgive me for butting in here where I do not have much right to speak up. I’m a German living in Germany. The situation of the jobless and disabled here is perhaps a tiny bit less dire than in the UK, but rapidly heading in the same direction. The political party we may thank for this is our Labour equivalent, called the “SPD” — they introduced a system of “workfare” and slave labour during the last decade, when they were in power (this was, of course, before the advent of Merkel). Since then, the SPD has gone downhill so much, their only option now is to cling to the reigning party’s need of a partner; and they suck up to them so much they have become indistinguishable from them. Their last candidate for the general election hadn’t been nominated for two hours when the media came up with definite proof that he was an utterly corrupt a…le; and there is not one of their members in office that I ever heard of that couldn’t be classed, without further inspection, as a corrupt (in German) “Weichei, Schlappschwanz, Waschlappen” (= “softegg”, “limptail”, “washcloth”), who is only trying to line their own pockets as fast as they can. As for the jobless and disabled, the current SPD-leader (a particularly disgusting fatass) has recently annnounced that they aren’t his party’s concern — his party is only concerned with those people who are “really working”!

    Now, what do I feel on learning of Mr Corbyn’s election as leader of the UK Labour party?

    Envy.

    We’re miles and miles away from anything similar over here.

    So, please, enjoy this stunning success while you can. It may be no more than a signal, and the faintest glimmer of hope, but a signal, and a hope, it is, and, I repeat, there are countries where even such a signal is only a wild dream, and of hope there is none.

    And yes, JV, I have read you last two paragraphs, and I think I do understand them. But I also think your view (of humankind and politics) is too optimistic. Most people are far too much occupied with surviving from one day to the other — they can’t care for politics all day long; they will be obliged to delegate political concerns to those who can afford to make a profession of them. Bad, really. But that’s the way of the world.

    And I do have this suspicion that you dislike Mr Corbyn just because, for the moment, he embodies — a new ray of — hope (when all hope was gone, before), and will therefore quench a lot of, well, “revolutionary” energy. And I’m not with you on than one. Experience teaches that when people have lost every hope they turn, not to the left, but to the right. And they will not solidarize and fight those who rob and enslave them, but tear each other apart, and eat those that are still weaker than they are.

    ************************

    Stepping down from my soap box, an a “lighter” note, I’m obliged to acknowledge that the UK still spends a lot of money at least on some of those people who are disabled by depression: “Last year alone, the U.K. saw 293 railway suicides on the main line railways, the highest number on record”, and “the immediate costs now exceed £50 million annually”. They couldn’t spend that on the living, could they…?

    • We are amazed that you can pick this blog up in Germany, love🙂

      • eustacie, the giffers (codgers) mIght be surprised in that your comment came from completely out of left field..

        … Thanks for the new description (‘corrupt washcloth’) which I’m going to borrow/use as soon as an opportunity presents. Corby’s just appointed someone to his cabinet who said that if he could go back and do anything more, the (non) assination of maggie thatcher was mentioning as being potential missed opportunity. He was, of course, joking. Many were thinking along similar lines, though, as she destroyed their hopes/lives and engendered vast amounts of hate. He was not the first, or alone in being amazed that no-one actually tried.

        I’m tending towards the view that there is only so much disillusion anyone can take without wanting to believe there’s light at the end of the tunnel – but jc and the labour party are two separate entities. He’s not the (a) Messiah, i can only agree with obd. It is fairly amazing to hear much of what he’s saying (& others) after being for so long unsaid on this type of a platform, but time will tell what it translates into.

        • *also thinking that if people take a step back & re~read the above post in even a week or a few weeks time, it’ll ring more true. Nothing in it is new (or particularly radical) – (!) but we are so susceptible to euphoric experience following extended stretches of stress/exhaustion (as is the case for so many) that it’s too easy to forget pain very quickly and get fooled again ~ even after being trampled all over as we have been.

          Compare with the obamarama effect/the rapturous response to him as an individual & what then became the new reality.

    • overburdenddonkey

      eustacie
      we in the UK had a golden opp to keep the tories out of power by voting for a snp labour alliance, that option was rejected…instead 330 tories were voted in giving the tories without the libdems, a majority…the tories actually increased their power…i predict that their majority will be even higher @ the 2020 GE…labour may have a better ‘peoples’ leader than they have had in a very long time but the party will be in disarray for a very long time also…

      • overburdenddonkey

        we don’t have a democracy in the UK the tories got 330 mp’s with a very small % of the vote…

        • OBD – If you don’t understand the differences between different democratic systems, then it’s best not to make silly statements.

        • I’ll try to explain a little more clearly for you OBD, and you seem to be a bit confused…… Under simple majority election systems, such as that used in our Westminster elections, the outcome you describe is commonplace, but it is still democracy. The Scottish parliament elections use a different system. Would you like me to explain it to you?

          • overburdenddonkey

            el
            you seem a little confused as i’m obvs referring to WM…and as i’ve already described thoroughly the BUILT IN bias, i have no need to explain it all again, we DO NOT HAVE A DEMOCRACY, but a meritocracy you know this a you have argued for PR/AMS before, as opposed to the undemocratic FPTP system….

            • OBD – I know… it’s a bit complicated for some people, but I’ll try my best to explain it to you. First perhaps you can try to say which part of the concept of democracy do you not understand?

              You also seem to be having a little trouble with the concept of meritocracy too, if you think the Tory government is a result of it. I can try to explain meritocracy to you later, but I think if you’re already struggling with the idea of democracy then maybe it’s a bit advanced for you at the moment.

              • overburdenddonkey

                el
                as it’s obvious that i didn’t use the word meritocracy correctly you could have substituted the correct word as you do comprehend what i am saying even if i used the wrong word…but for you to have inserted the correct word would have shown that you DO comprehend me and you wouldn’t want it seen that you do…
                so as you CAN continue to procrastinate and obfuscate…

            • I agree with you OBD it is not really a democracy when most of the people in it disagree with the state, it is more like a totalitarian state than a democracy, these days.

              • Maria – If you don’t vote then what the fuck has it got to do with you?

                • good detective work Fen, let me guess, EG will respond by swearing at you, calling you lazy and idiot.

                • @ Maria

                  First he disagrees with me wanting the Tories out by 2020 by another other party, and now he says to me today he wants them out himself by his own admission by partly helping Corbyn into the role of Shadow Leader of the opposition.

                  Good job I know how to use Ctrl+F to search for any text or words I want to find that has been used in earlier, old posts on here.

                • You don’t vote if there is nobody worth voting for – you fight for a change in the election and voting system .

                • I am monitored for supposedly insulting people, it just shows what hypocrites are running this site that you are still able to attack and post EG.

              • overburdenddonkey

                actually maria i was hoping people would read this short series of posts rather than comment on them…as el’s habit is to draw people on a merry dance down the garden path and drain people’s energy to argue…

                • I know I’ve given up trying to have a decent conversation with el, but I really do agree with what you say.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  yeah i know you and i’m willing to state that the majority agree with us…

                • overburdenddonkey

                  typo missed ‘do’ ‘yeah i know you do’….

                • OBD – Of course you would prefer that people don’t comment on them…… because they’re complete drivel!

                • If EG is that good on his knowledge on voting and politics in general, then why isn’t he in parliament himself. An earlier post from him has him saying he voted for SNP in reply to something that Maria said. A later post from EG to me and he said he paid £3 to vote in support of Labour’s new leader.

                  Either he is lying to us all that he voted for SNP or he is lying that he then instead voted for Labour. I fully agree with you OBD that he leads us all down the garden path with nothing constructive to say other than to insult us all with cheap words.

                  He is now trying to drag all of us into endless, pointless arguments that have no resolve.

                • I actually don’t believe he is human any more, it seems to me he is like a AI Arguebot, I one tried to have a conversation with a AI programme, I really did get the same nonsense from it, only without the insults.

                • September 12, 2015 at 9:05am –

                  Maria: “If you live in Scotland EG, why do you not vote SNP?”

                  Elbow Grease: “I did”

                  ——————————

                  September 13, 2015 at 3:54pm –

                  Fen Tiger: “Do you support Corbyn and Labour? Did you vote them in yourself? I would like to hear from you your political party of choice before asking me of mine.”

                  Elbow Grease: “Yes, I paid £3 and voted for Corbyn.”

                  ————————-

                  Compare and contrast these two voting strategies from EG…

                • @ Maria

                  At least with an AI programme you can either delete it or switch it off and unplug it.

                • you right Fen Tiger then the comparison is more in tune with a virus.

                • @ Maria

                  If EG first voted for SNP, his own words to you earlier on and then says to me that he technically voted for Labour by paying £3 to get their new choice of leader in, surely there is conflict of political interests going on here.

                  Either he stands for what the SNP believe in or he has swung 100% the other way towards Labour in a couple of days. Something that he read from the SNP since voting for them has made him think ”are labour any better than previously under Ed Milliband and that Corbyn is my type of leader who pulls no punches.”

                • @ Maria

                  Talking of Viruses, it’s a shame that my AVG or Windows Defender can’t get rid of the EG virus once and for all.

                • Fen – Grow up and try to look at reality instead of making silly assertions. Like countless others in Scotland I voted SNP in the general election partly because the Labour candidate and leadership were right-wing Blairites. I voted for Corbyn in the Labour leadership election largely so that people in rUK would have somebody other Tories to vote for in 2020. We in Scotland are already fortunate enough to have a party of principle and integrity to vote for, but I feel sorry for you in rUK because until now you didn’t.

                • @ Eg

                  So by your new statement you have said just now by you voting SNP and for Labour’s new leader to get the tories out by or before 2020 – that you now agree with my post from last night which I will repeat here again?

                  Quote ”I don’t care who gets in government power by or before 2020 just as long as they get rid of the Tories who have attacked the less well-off in this country for the last five or so years.” unquote.

                  My exact paragraph from 9:37pm last night that you took notice of.

                • He votes for SNP, then joins the labour party so he can vote for their leader and has Tory ideals, he says welfare should go to those that need it, but wants to pick and choose who needs it, personally himself. Good job EG is not a dictator, our beloved country would really go down the plug hole then.

                • @ Eg

                  You have said yourself to me today that you partly voted Corbyn in, to get the Tories out by 2020 by your own admission to me. Do you accept or deny those very words to me, that I, myself mentioned only last night to have the Tories out of power by any other political party and/or process in 2020…

                • Eg, complete contradiction

                  First he slags me off for what I said last night about me wanting the Tories out in five years by Labour or other, then he say it himself by admitting he voted in Corbyn to lead the Labour Party into victory in five years time as EG himself wants the Tories out.

                • EG: ”I voted for Corbyn in the Labour leadership election largely so that people in UK would have somebody other Tories to vote for in 2020.”

                  Almost identical statement that I spoke off last night at 9:37pm and got my head snapped off in the process…

                • I shall ignore your new comment to me as you yourself have said you want the Tories out as I have, myself, previously mentioned.

                  Therefore, your new comment is invalid and has no substance on which to continue this merry-go-round argument.

    • Eustacie – I think you have every right to comment, as I don’t think JV’s bog recognises artificial, man-made borders. Workers all over the world face similar problems. I sense that in your last paragraph you are referring to the experience of a period seared deep into the German psyche, and sadly I see too much evidence that is the case. I don’t think it’s completely hopeless, and I still believe that ordinary people can change their situation for the better, but only if they come together and believe in themselves and their ability to make huge changes, which we know can happen from looking at another event in a different era in German history.

      It’s also important to remember that our enemy is an international one, so we must also organise internationally, so I include a link to the website of the IWW in Germany.

      http://www.wobblies.de/

  51. stitchedupandbroken

    we are entering a world of aggressive greed. It’s almost professional! There will be doctors who are seduced by ££££££. Why wouldn’t there be? You see your colleagues putting their hands in the trough and picking up the £50s,you might as well have some yourself…or you’re a mug!
    Christianity or religion has died courtesy of the thieves and liars and sycophants of Canterbury. Now we’re left with Gucci and 38DD boobs! And the likes of the Nazi Party and TB Labour Party: the public schoolboy bastards or the double-dealers ‘I’m like a taxi,ready to rent’ MPs

  52. stitchedupandbroken

    Due for an ATOS soon. And only 3 weeks left until I retire!!! 65.
    Still,you fight on.
    I am not fit to work. Found fit to work I am going to my GP to demand further anti inflammatories(a further risk to my health),additional x6 sleeping tabs(I cannot sleep: pain/arthritis). To be able to get to work and WORK,to remain awake(for work),I will demand amphetimes. Refused? I’m sitting on surgery floor and inviting the police to be called. I know my body.I know what it needs.
    Hey! By the way: Look c what they did to the nurse Margaret Haywood. Stitched up nicely…and for reporting your mum and dad dying in agony and in filth. Well dun to the Top Table. That’s press,prosecutionall authorities: you will die in dignity,we die in shit and agony. Tally Ho!

  53. stitchedupandbroken

    The GPs would be fools or saints(where are they these days?)not to start harvesting at ATOS/MAXIMUS any private healthcare set up.They don’t do it,their colleagues will.££££££££s to be made.And,if things go wrong: government and their own union to fight for ’em,and with their ££££ a football team of lawayers….to discredit,ruin you BIG TIME.
    At the moment we are in the early stages of health reform. But the ball is rollin,gaining momentum.
    The Top Table can’t see what made Gerry Adams,Osama,ISIS and the like,they are that dim: they did!
    Act now: start investing in body bags and nooses: the cleansing is on its way. But there should be consequences…I hope for the TT.

    • Your 3 last posts are so true and the same happened to me with the help of my OWN FAMILY some of which are right wing rats.

      We were told by doctors in the hospital ( after her neglect in the old peoples home that she resides in put her in a diabetic coma and urinary tracts infections. that my mother was dying and they stopped feeding her and giving her water.

      I was the only one in the family that fought with one of the numerous doctors (that were contradictory in their opinions and diagnoses that attended to my mother), that her fluids at least should be restored, her infection had cleared with antibiotics, her heart was strong and she was not terminally ill.

      She is now feeding and drinking herself but was given the highway to heaven by phoney doctors who call themselves educated and professional.

      They are carrying out the orders of the politicians to kill off the elderly, yet someone with a terminal illness or locked in syndrome can’t decide when to die for themselves.

      The whole of the political and economic system is about CONTROL, we are subjected to sheep like killers not carers in our hospitals and old peoples homes and Jeremy Corbyn is asking for more to be built. I say close these chicken pen places they are putting old people into.

      Ageism is rife in this country, yet they were the ones that knew and fought for real policies in building social housing and setting up a welfare state via national INSURANCE subscriptions and fighting two world wars.

      Big Brother on TV shows is what big brother in real life is like, pandering to the political correct, corruption and ageists in society.

  54. “Corbyn’s victory could ignite exactly the kind of struggle which is needed. That we see this not as the road to a Labour government but as a sign that there is genuine hunger in the UK for change…”

    Spot On!

    I’ve read this article three times and the comments twice. Since Corbyn’s election as labour leader the full might of the right wing press has taken the liberty to try and nuke him. Even those amongst his own ranks were not slow to remove themselves from office to go sit quietly on the back benches. The labour party is only one part of a constitution that is CORRUPT. To align any change as a chance for labour to continue it’s role in that constitution would be wrong – AS IT MISSES THE POINT BEING MADE – THE PEOPLE ARE SICK OF THE SHIT AND WANT CHANGE – even if that means dumping labour. I would argue the situation is so serious in this country that unless the people rise up (and do so fast) the elites will reign forever and we will always be their slaves. It was funny last week when the media talked of Corbyn taking Britain back to the 1970s – the fucking tories have taken us back to the Dark Ages!!!!!!!!!!!

    I think what could be ignited is a small sense of hope for the people of this country (where there has been none) -it could be the beginning and it’s too early to tell – we shall see, being optomistic and vigilant at the same time ….

    • I agree with you there but I don’t think it is right to get rid of our defence, that’s the only argument I have, we need a more responsible society than the one we have now, a responsibility to its people and not to money

      • Maria, who exactly are we being defended against ? Nuclear weapons are no defence against terrorist groups.

        Always money for warfare, never any for welfare.

        Scrap Trident and reallocate funds where they’re actually some use.

        • it’s not just nuclear weapons, he wants to get rid of the whole army.

        • Psychlops, You are right. Maria is like a lot of people who haven’t thought about it at all, they just accept the ‘wisdom’ of the warmongering elites. Also Jeremy Corbyn hasn’t said he wants to get rid of the army as she claimed. That’s just tabloid nonsense.

          • fair enough if there is a valid alternative, I don’t want war, I want peace but there are always people in the world that do want war. What is this alternative?

            • It’s usually the ruling politicians in Westminster and Washington D.C, who want war… and it is they who are the bigger terrorists.

    • Spot On!

      Christianity or religion has died courtesy of the thieves and liars and sycophants of Canterbury. Now we’re left with Gucci and 38DD boobs!

      An Intermediate episode of progressive politics before the social control of progressive falsehood is established, the working class are nothing but political cannon fodder, the left banished the working class from their dystopian dreams long ago.

      • ‘The left banished the working class from their dystopian dreams long ago’,
        The left is run by the state and they only care about those that work for the state.
        The right is run by the rich elite and that is all they care about and give them state influential positions in state and quango’s.
        Both local government and national governments are equally corrupted with cronyism.

  55. Whilst I’m here I also hear that Owen Smith in the Shadow Minister for benefits & Pensions – never heard of him but found this on wiki:

    1. In September 2012 he described Prime Minister David Cameron’s first government reshuffle as an “highly unusual and unsatisfactory state of affairs. It looks to me as though Wales has only been considered at the fag-end of David Cameron’s reshuffle and when they did look at it they found they’d run out of money for a full-time junior minister at the Wales Office, having almost certainly reached the ceiling allowed under the Ministerial and other Salaries Act. It’s unheard of to have a whip also acting as a minister in a department.”

    2. He described Conservative plans to devolve powers over income tax to the Welsh Assembly as “a trap”

    Could be interesting times ahead for Ian Duncan Shit as Ms Reeves fucks off to the back benches – she should resign as she looks and talks for all the world like a tory

  56. BOLLOCKS TO AUSTERITY

    I won’t vote for anyone who supports Workfare and Benefit Sanctions. I’m hoping Corbyn will want to introduce an Unconditional Citizens Guaranteed Basic Income in place of JSA.

  57. Bottem line – we’ve had a full term of Cameron dismanteling society and ‘the revolution’ so beloved by some commentators still hasn’t happened, and doesn’t appear to be on the horizon either.

    We can go on spouting fantasies till the cows come home, or we can nature the small flame of hope we currently have and try to build it into an unquenchable fire.

    Corbyn (or more properly, the policies he represents) scares the Tories, the press and, best of all, all the pink tory careerists in his own party (Caroline Flint, another bash-the-unemployed enthusiast, the latest Blairite to run off sulking). That in itself is a great start.

    Corbyn’s the best chance we’ve got right now, the best we’ve had for decades. Lets at least give him a chance. Better still, lets support him.

    Because I really don’t see any other realistic alternative.

    And consider – perhaps that revolution (insomuch as one is possible in the circumstances) actually starts RIGHT HERE.

    Or we can sulk, bitch, do nothing and allow business to continue as usual.

    YOUR choice.

  58. Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    Should Iain Duncan Smith resign?

  59. Please ignore the you know what, folks.
    It looks like a bad case of Schopenhauer’s sydrome, usually children grow out of it at about age 11, but it appears not in this case. If it continues into adulthood then there is no known cure.

  60. Hopefully the Next Shadow Secretary of State For Work and
    Pensions will Care about the Poor and Vulnerable

  61. My questions for you Johnny is, if you were being humiliated and harassed by lackeys at the DWP, hounded by ATOS, or what ever the fuck name it goes under these days, if you were struggling to pay the bedroom tax, using foodbanks, on a zero hour contract, working for nothing for some huge multi billion pound company on workfare, what would he like to see, small glimmer of hope from someone is going to speak for him where it matters, in Westminster, and perhaps make life a little more bearable?

    Or prefare the perpetual struggle against a government that is on par, if not more ruthless at kicking the crap out off the working poor than Thatcher was.

    I know Corbyn is not Castro, or Che, but for now, until someone strikes a real blow on the streets to kick start a programne of civil disobediene (for the home truth is, we are all far too obedient to power) someone to kick off civil unrest, insurrection even. Then for now, love him or loathe him, he (Corbyn) is the only show in town. 

    I am old enough to have lived through hardcore neo liberalism since the early 1980’s, and no one has been able to halt it. In fact it becomes more ruthless and artogant by the hour. Corbyn may not be able to halt it, but he can kick it out of the Labour party. That, in my opinion would be a good start. Give him a chance, see what his measure is before you write him off.

  62. Johnny V

    Who has mysteriously (DELIBERATELY) taken all my stuff down about Uxbridge JCP?

    Very interestingly the appeal stuff has disappeared as well as everyone’s comments to this.

    Everything I said WAS obviously TRUE then!

    Please explain if possible!

  63. F*CK DWP! | September 15, 2015 at 1:52 pm | Reply
    Johnny V

    Who has mysteriously (DELIBERATELY) taken all my stuff down about Uxbridge JCP?

    Very interestingly the appeal stuff has disappeared as well as everyone’s comments to this.

    Everything I said WAS obviously TRUE then!

    Please explain if possible!

  64. Indeed it is Absolutely Important that Labour Stands Up For The
    Welfare State and Challenges the Nazi Style Persecution of the
    Poor and Vulnerable

    Britain Stood against Nazism Before and Needs to Stand against
    Nazi Style Persecution of the Poor and Vulnerable Now

  65. So, this is the voice of Urban 75 speaking. The whiny, disingenuous, authoritarian keyboard warriors who dogpile anyone that dares to think independently while resorting to bullying and stalking. Is this what you’ve sunk to Johnny Void?

  66. No to a Totalitarian Britain and Society

    Yes to Human Compassion For the Poor and Vulnerable

  67. The 15th of September 2015 AD Mark’s the 80th Anniversary of the Nuremberg Laws Depriving Jews of German Citizenship in 1935 AD.

    The Nazi Regime Victimised Jews Terribly .

    The Victimisation of the Poor and Vulnerable in Present Britain is
    Terrible and Needs to be Opposed and Stopped just as with
    Victimisation of Refugees and Immigrants by Racists

  68. The 15th of September 2015 AD Mark’s the 80th Anniversary of the Nazis Making their Party Flag the German Flag in 1935 AD .

    Their Misuse of the Swastika an Ancient Symbol of Good a Cultural and Religious Symbol used by Many Peoples across the World is Terrible Like their Victimization of the Poor and Vulnerable Nazi Euthanasia and Racial Discrimination and Racial Genocide Committed by their Cruel and Evil Regime.

  69. The Poor are Not the Problem it is the Greed and Selfishness of too
    Many Rich People that is

  70. The Defence and Rebuilding of the Welfare State with Social Justice to
    All in Need is Imperative for a Better Britain Free of Misery and
    Oppression

  71. Notice Petition for Resignation of Ian Duncan Smith as Secretary of
    State For Work and Pensions Now has over 105,000 Signatures
    as of 18.06 PM at Least 16th September 2015 AD

  72. Hope Corbyn will do a lot of good and yes, Byrne is a bastard, a baldy bastard!

  73. Jeremy Corbyn looks like the new Dr Who never mind next Prime Minister, love.

  74. I Understand Well how Angry and Disgusted Many in Scotland Are
    with the Result of Tory Policies from Margaret Thatcher Onwards
    but Breaking Up Britain via the ” Scottish National Party ” is Not
    the Answer

    Many in England and Wales are Disgusted with Tory Policies as Well

    What is the Answer is Britain Resisting and Ending Austerity just as
    Britain Resisted and was Instrumental in Ending Nazism

    A United Britain where People who Live in Britain have a Government
    that Cares about them and a Protected Welfare State and National
    Health Service

  75. The Welfare State Needs to be Defended and the Misery and Suffering
    that Existed in the United Kingdom beforehand People Reminded of

    It Exists to Help which is Better than Trident Nuclear Weapons

  76. I can understand Johnny Voids angst. He is afraid that the class war movement (and fellow travellers) will be weakened if Corbyn’s ideas become the norm politically and gains more supporters. It’s a big “if” though, seeing as Corbyn will likely have to make too many compromises with the majority of Blairites in the parliamentary Labour party, who outnumber him in voting terms. I can see him not delivering on leaving NATO, leaving the EU and getting rid of Trident. Some of his economic and welfare ideas might be put into practice, at least for a while before MI5 or the CIA remove him from office through blackmail or worse.

  77. I Notice that I Notice that Petition For The Resignation of Ian Duncan Smith as Secretary of State For Work and Pensions Now has over 107,000 Signatures.

    Britain Needs to be a Land of Social Justice Not of Slavery

  78. Reason why Social Justice including a Caring Welfare State should be
    Stopped Human Decency

  79. Pingback: The Junior Doctors Strike & Us – The Red Guard

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