More appalling revelations have emerged in this week’s Private Eye about DWP boss and Tory leadership hopeful Stephen Crabb’s links to religious organisations with extremist views on gay and lesbian people.
According to their website, Crabb sits on the Council of Reference of GWEINI, a group which claims to represent the Christian voluntary sector in Wales. In reality however they appear to be a front group for the Evangelical Alliance who support gay cures in some cases and believe that sexually active gay and lesbian people – even those in committed relationships – should be subject to church dicipline.
The chairperson of GWEINI is Elfed Godding who is also the national director of Evangelical Alliance Wales with whom they share a phone number and address. They operate under the same charity registration number as the UK wide Evangelical Alliance and explain on their website that GWEINI is “Evangelical Alliance Wales working with other Christian agencies in the nation.” One of those agencies is CARE, the group that Stephen Crabb once enjoyed a “fantastic year” with as an intern and who in 2009 funded a ‘gay cure’ conference where amongst other things they discussed “mentoring the sexually broken”. Joining Crabb on GWEINI’s Council of Reference is his old friend Lyndon Bowring, the Executive Chairman of CARE.
CARE have watered down their public opposition to gay and lesbian people recently, but you can’t say the same for the Evangelical Alliance . In 2012 the they published a book called ‘Biblical and pastoral responses to homosexuality’ to address what they said was an urgent need for guidance on matters relating to sexuality. To read it is like stepping back in time. Whilst the Alliance offer sympathy to those that experience ‘same sex attraction’ they insist that any sexual activity between those of the same sex is a sin and incompatible with Christian life.
Instead lesbian and gay Christians should be supported to live chastely says the group and church leaders are encouraged to support ‘reparative therapy’ – meaning an attempt to cure them of homosexuality – for those that want it. They say they “welcome and support … those who offer counsel and pastoral support” to help gay and lesbian people live a “chaste life” claiming that part of this process may mean some “experience changes in the strength or direction of their same-sex attractions”. According to the Alliance there is “plenty of anecdotal evidence” that gay and lesbian sexualities can be changed.
This doesn’t mean they are homophobic they inist, saying they welcome gay and lesbians into churches as long as they don’t ever have sex. But they also warn that “habitual homoerotic sexual activity without repentance”, and those who promote it, should be diciplined by, or even kicked out of their churches. And they mean it. In 2012 they expelled a Oasis, an evangelical ministry who published a piece on their website arguing that monogamous same-sex relationships are not sinful. They are still happy to work with Stephen Crabb though.
Crabb, who voted against gay marriage, has insisted that he does not support a gay cure. Yet he is embedded within an evangelical movement who actively promote such practices and who make no secret of their opposition to LGBT people. Will the real Stephen Crabb ever actually stand up? Or perhaps, given the appalling bigots he is happy to be associated with, he should stand down.
If you have any doubts about where this group stands read the Evangelical Alliance’s 10 affirmations which they say summarises their position on lesbian and gay people.
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What the fuck did his parents and peer group do wrong to create this monster?
Evangelical Christians = Fundamentalists. Avoid. ‘Everything in the Bible is true’, and you can’t argue with them.
Actually the Old Testament is just one of a number of ‘creation myths’; similar to, for example, the creation myth of Zoroastrianism.
Evangelicals can be a bloody pain in the arse. I know of one vicar who had to leave his parish because of the trouble they caused there (banners everywhere, happy clappy music etc).
Actually Genesis (Old Testament) is just one of a number of ‘creation myths’; similar to, for example, the creation myth of Zoroastrianism.
Reblogged this on sdbast.
I’m surprised the gay community hasn’t come out in force against this homophobic turd and demanded his resignation, I bet in reality, he’s secretly gay but has no backbone to come out so he shouts loud against homosexuals, they say the people who shout the loudest against gays are in the closet themselves, he is an awful, arrogant, ignorant twat who should be in politics, or anything for that matter!
Sorry everyone, “he’s an awful, arrogant, ignorant twat who should NOT be in politics, or anything for that matter!” Apologies!
christian hay were are those bishops on the culling of the stock very very quiet while the great cull carries on
The “cure” you talk about is not compulsory. The Bible mentions homosexuality and condemns it unequivocally, but it does not leave homosexuals without hope of Salvation.
There are some Christians who once were homosexuals but have been converted by Grace through Faith Alone in Christ. They can be saved just like heterosexual people can be saved.
No one is going to force homosexuals to undergo a “cure”. On the other hand, I certainly hope homosexuality is not going to be made compulsory! The comedian Dave Allen once told a (serious) joke reminding people that homosexuality used to carry the death penalty; he was worried that because it was (then) being made legal, he was emigrating before they made it COMPULSORY!
As far as Stephen Crabb goes, stop making ad hominem attacks on him, and concentrate on his political activities towards the unemployed.
The reason homosexuality was condemned in the Bible is because the Bible describes a belief system used by a tribal society which was trying to expand and needed as many new members as possible. Because gay relationships didn’t produce children, i.e.,increase the size and therefore the power of the tribe, they were frowned upon.
That’s the nub of it.
(Plato had similar non-religious sentiments and suggested that me who didn’t marry should be taxed more in order to encourage them to do their manly duty.)
Considering that the world in now in danger from overpopulation you would expect the opposite argument to gain favour and homosexual relationships regarded as better than heterosexual ones in the sense that they have the potential to cause less damage to the world.
Besides forcing drug addicts and alcoholics on Universal Credit to “take the cure” I wouldn’t put it beyond Crabb to try straighten out gay people in a similar fashion. I am only joking, kind of, but what a complete and utter arsehole Crabb has turned out to be to be sure..
Name should be RECTILINEAR
Sure you don’t mean rectumlinear 😀
I hope that straightens things out!
Sorry, sport, but nature and especially human nature is curvy not straight.
You’re quite right. Human nature is twisted by sin. All humans are, by nature, natural born sinners, not only homosexuals.
Have you heard of the term “Justification by Faith”? The Justification part means your sins are “straightened out”, not by your own efforts, but by the Grace of God through Faith Alone in Christ. That’s what happens when someone is “born again”.
It’s the same as a printed page which has the margins justified, ie, straightened out. As you know, an unjustified paragraph on a printed page (such as on here) has the right hand margin crooked. That’s the way it is with the natural man and woman – as you more or less said yourself!
You must be born again!
I’m a Buddhist and so will be born again… and again… and again… until I escape from the wheel of suffering and achieve nirvana. God doesn’t come into it and were I to “sin” as you so quaintly put is (by which you seem to mean behave in any manner you disapprove of) my karma will adjust the balance in this life or one of my coming lives and make me pay for my mistakes and errors. What a terrible thing it must be to believe falsely that men and women are born corrupt. I pity you.
“And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehendeth it not”
You will not be reincarnated again and again; you will have an appointment with death ONCE, and after this the Judgement.
You are free, via your own natural free will, to believe what you want. On the other hand, The Bible says: “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them for they [the things of God] are spiritually discerned”.
You are not free to “born yourself again”.
You make me smile (at your silliness) and feel sad (at your ignorance) all at the same time. I wish you well and hope that your God approves of your beliefs and behaviour more than I do. Bless you anyway. Enjoy your life.
You opine: “What a terrible thing it must be to believe falsely that men and women are born corrupt”.
But, by your own earlier admission, you said that human nature is “curvy” not straight.
Make your mind up
Curviness isn’t corrupt! Curviness is natural. To quote from the Ridley Scott film Prometheus, which happens to be on later this week on Film Four: “God doesn’t build in straight lines”. It’s straightness not curviness which is unnatural. Even light moves in curves (called geodesics) through space as dictated by the presence of energy and matter. String theory states that matter is, at its most fundamental level, formed from curvy vibrating filaments of energy. Curves is good. Straightness is bad.
You need to get out more I reckon and learn more about the world.
How do homosexuals reproduce themselves?
Curved shapes in nature are not corrupt, right enough.
But human nature is corrupt – or fallen or twisted or crooked or bent etc. Call it what you like. The Bible calls it sin – and all mankind is conceived and born that way. You don’t have to behave in a particular manner – for example being a homosexual – to be a sinner.
Why the fuck is Film Four HD only available of Ruprick Murdick’s $ky platform? It should be free to air on terrestrial and satellite. Channel 4 gets money off of the government yet is allowed to do shady back-room deals with the Ruprick Murdick Corporation! Just what the fuck is going on here?
Prometheus is a good film btw even is shitty SD! Fuck you Film Four!
When is JV going to write an article about this pressing issue: Why the fuck is Film Four HD only available of Ruprick Murdick’s rip-off $ky platform? Way too much trivia discussed on here like benefits being slashed, foodbanks springing up, sanctions, bedroom taxes and other bollocks when the really important issues like Film Four only being available in HD if you pony up a bundle to $ky are blatantly ignored and conveniently side-stpped. JV, get your fucking priorities right!
Homosexuals aren’t a separate species and don’t need to reproduce themselves in a Dawinian sense in order to propagate themselves. Gay people can have sex with members of the opposite sex and many do, often, although male-female might not be their favourite form of sexual congress. You seem to think that gay people are significantly “different” from straight people in some way, which, of course, is not only untrue but patently ridiculous. I’m not sure if as a “religious” person you accept the theory of natural selection but from an evolutionary perspective if every homosexual was exclusively homosexual, or homosexuality didn’t arise spontaneously, acausally, amongst members of the general population, homosexuality would have died out as a sexual orientation aeons ago because gay people would have no descendants to pass on their sexual predilection.
This is obviously not true. Homosexuality has existed in all human populations throughout recorded (and probably unrecorded) history from the dawn of time. Gayness is in point of fact a common-to-garden normal human sexual behaviour which has always been and will always be with us.
You do have some peculiar and naive ideas.
You say (about me): “You seem to think that gay people are significantly “different” from straight people in some way, which, of course, is not only untrue but patently ridiculous”.
What an astounding claim. I don’t think your comments would stand up if scrutinised by the the vast majority of the population – who are heterosexual. If there is no difference – as you keenly claim – why are there so many specific laws favouring homosexuals nowadays?
Not too long ago, a referendum was held in Scotland on clause 28. 87% of the people voted to retain Clause 28. This would have prevented local authorities from intentionally promoting homosexuality in schools etc. The result, was arrogantly ignored and Clause 28 was later repealed against the will of the vast majority of the population.
Also, the radio programme “Any Questions” debated some years ago whether homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt children. The panel, made up of various people of widely varying views, UNANIMOUSLY rejected the proposal on the grounds that it was so much against nature!
I certainly hope homosexuality is not going to be made compulsory from now on.
Let me leave you in no doubt that there will be no unrepentant homosexuals in Heaven. See Romans chapter 1 and 1st Corinthians chapter 6, verses 9-11. But they can be saved; they will just need to repent like any other (mostly heterosexual) sinners.
Normality is determined by statistical frequency, For example only 2% of people in the country have intelligence quotients high enough (132 or above) to join MENSA. Are MENSA members abnormal because they have some attribute shared with only two in very hundred members of society?
Attitudes to homosexuality vary according to culture both now and historically. The are not fixed in stone and change based on societal tropes, For example, a country like Iran, a theocracy, condemns gayness in the strongest possible terms while western countries have embraced it more and more as an acceptable variation of human sexuality, e.g., openly gay men and women can serve in the American armed forces for example. And Pope Francis recently opined that Christians should apologise to gay people for being misused and abused by his church.
You are a very glum and gloomy person. It cannot be easy to go through life burdened by imaginary “sin” and disapproving of others no matter how sterling their qualities. I am not a Christian but always thought that the historical Christ, if he existed at all, represented and promoted love, self-sacrifice, kindness, tolerance, acceptance, inclusiveness and forgiveness not condemnation, ill feeling and contempt.
Kind if the opposite of what you seem to stand for and to believe in.
Further, many scholars of divinity and theologians have mooted that Jesus Christ himself was quite possibly gay and took John the Apostle as his lover.
I don’t accept anything you have written and feel sad that you have adopted such a pinched, colourless and joyless outlook on life. This is why I believe that organised religion can be pernicious and ruinous. Sometime, somewhere, someone or something infected you with the poisonous and judgemental twaddle you appear to have adopted as a moral code. I would be very sad to see thousands of other innocent boys and girls influenced so toxically and see them bent out of shape as they are growing up by false dogma and perverse scriptural interpretation.
I am sad for you but wish you well no matter how dark and uncertain your path may be. I’m never going to agree with you or you with me so think it best to conclude this conversation at this point. Good luck to you.
“And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not”
Loads of suicide bonuses up for grabs being a politician. Suicide bonus for winning & a suicide bonus for losing, DWP Assisted Suicide Bonus. The Brexit adverts had hypnotists with a special hypnotised message to hypnotise the public. I don`t know why I voted so & so – Something was controlling me to tick that box at UNUM.
The Tories are re-writing the bible on Twitter. Now who plays the part of Jesus? Twitter plays the part of Jesus. Jesus !! No Twitter. Time to nail Twitter to the cross. Jesus !! No Twitter.
Jobcentre Workers Could Be Hit By the Same Benefit Sanctions They Impose.
“””A spokesperson for the Department for Work and Pensions confirmed that DWP staff transferring over to Universal Credit will be treated no differently from existing claimants. “UC claimants who work at the DWP will get the same support as everyone else,” he said. “Being a UC claimant does not affect a person’s role at the DWP and employees may request their claim is dealt with by a different office to where they work.” “”””””
Are Jobcentre staff paid so poorly that they need top-ups from Universal Credit? I was told if I worked thirty hours a week on the minimum wage I would get no UC at all so they can’t be paid well.
It’ll be the part-time ones?
Are they minimum wagers then? If so no wonder they’re so grumpy and ever ready to mete out sanctions at the drop of a hat! If I had to do crappy work like that for £7.20 p.h., I’d probably end up with a chip on my shoulder and pissed off too.
But they don’t have chips on their shoulders – they have jackets (potatoes). I think it’s because they’ve been encouraged to view their ‘customers’ as ‘customers’ – & as ‘less than’ – let’s not go into ‘less than’ what, or who.
They’re definitely not v. well qualified (or perhaps they are) & have to find their job satisfaction where they can …
Ps. I am thinking of tax credits & how those work – not Puniversal Credits … it’s all getting a bit too confusing/surreal – & not in a good way ..
This stupid idiot needs to go back before he was concieved and died in a Rubber Durex. This bloke is a total TAwt. Sack it.
I wish I could cure Conservatism and Christianity.
Would you like to cure Islam as well?
In the sense that I would like to see the end of all monotheistic religions including Islam, Judaism and Christianity, my answer would have to be, yes, if by “cure” you mean “abolish”..
Hey, Johnnyvoid does NOT allow any criticism of Islam even though it calls for the murder of women, Jews and LGBT.
I think the Void is against particular attacks against any religion. As you can see I am not particular, believe that all religions based on belief in deity are nonsense, and would like to see mankind outgrow and dispense with all such mythologies which change based on interpretations made by their followers. Bad people do bad things irrespective of religious conviction.
Some Christians tortured and burned people as witches: some Jews razed cities to the ground killing everything alive within them: some Muslims waged atrocious wars and killed millions of people in the name of Allah.
Iain Duncan Smith is apparently a devout Roman Catholic and look what he did during his stint at the DWP. The man has sent more people to meet their maker prematurely than every terrorist of any persuasion put together. And now the evil old bald bastard’s mini-me, Stephen Crabb, sits in his place not only wanting to “suffer the little children” to come unto the Lord but to “cure” gay people of their gayness to boot.
That’s the problem with religion.
Bad people bend it out of shape to suit their personal insanity and needs.
Religion rarely, if ever, stops evil people from doing evil things.
Do you believe you have the answers to the mystery of life itself? That’s a very arrogant attitude. What else shall we abolish whilst were at it? Its the variety of opinions and beliefs that make life interesting. Everyone is different and setting yourself up as judge and jury on all matters pertaining to belief systems, be it Conservatism or Religion is a dangerous path to walk on. Have a good look at internet censorship and general media censorship over the last decade and tell me if you think its right that a few individuals can tell us what is good for us and what is forbidden. What politics we can access and what we cannot. And I don’t include Child porn in this question as there are some things that are just plain wrong and funnily enough that’s what most religions teach including Christianity which you want to deny the right to exist. If you can abolish the 2 things you mention, why can’t the Government block this site? It would stop discussion of benefit cuts which would help them keep things swept under the carpet.
I believe that anything, political or religious, which systemically and institutionally encourages the persecution of people for any reason, including their sexual orientation, is innately and inherently bad. I also believe that if a deity existed he/she/it would not be more partial to one group of men and women than another: I do not believe that the only way to God would be through Christ, or that the Jews are God’s chosen people, or that Mohammed was the last and most perfect prophet of Allah. A God which encourages people to believe that they are better than others and that people outside of their own personal mythology are lesser beings inciting hate, prejudice and even violence directed towards innocent outsiders would be more Satanic than heavenly and not worthy of devotion.
So, yes, in my opinion the world would be a much better place were religion less influential or, better still, absent from the world altogether.
As someone who seems to be advocating that people can question and believe whatever they want, freely, openly, why shouldn’t I be allowed to believe that?
Surely if you want to abolish something how can you claim to advocate freedom of choice. That was and still is my point!
Abolish; formally put an end to (a system, practice, or institution).
Quote; Believe whatever they want, freely, openly, why shouldn’t I be allowed to believe that?
That’s the opposite of abolish; “confirm, continue, enact, establish, institute, legalize, promote, ratify, support, uphold”
How does this strike you. Self Righteous; having or characterised by a certainty, especially an unfounded one, that one is totally correct or morally superior.
Quote; I believe that! Yes that’s what you believe but it may be wrong!!!!!!
I can’t abolish anything and have only stated that in my opinion the world would be a much better place without religion… and without animal cruelty… and without child abuse,,, and without whaling… and without destruction of the rainforest… and, well, there’s a whole host of things I think that, were they got rid of or at the very least curbed, would make like better for everyone. But of course I can’t say any of those things without upsetting the religious (get rid of religion), dog fighters (stop animal cruelty), paedophiles (end child cruelty), whalers (save the cetaceans) , and South American mining and logging companies (preserve the rainforest).
Whatever I say, railing against anything that I frown upon, will upset somebody somewhere. If you are honest it is only right that you challenge false beliefs wherever and whenever you come across them. Basing human existence on mythology is dangerous and can lead to people carrying out atrocious acts of violence in God’s name, e.g., ISIS in the middle east today and the crusades carried out between the 11th and 15th century by people who called themselves Christians. It is wrong to live a lie and people should be given the chance to see things as they are and become better informed and more enlightened citizens because of it.
People should be discouraged from “believing what they want” when what they choose to believe in isn’t true and is in fact a pack of lies.
Let’s let the Nobel laureate physicist Steven Weinberg have the last word: “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
I was not trying to wind you up with my questions but you must understand that if you want to be taken seriously you need to choose how you say things “carefully”, and walk on solid ground. None of us including me have all the answers. You are still very very wrong on your assumptions. Pointing out that people have carried out atrocious acts because of religion is nonsense without countering how many lives have been changed for the better. because of faith many people change from being criminals to become good and kind citizens. There is no proof God does not exist and you can’t prove otherwise. You have not upset me in anyway by your comments I actually find it interesting how people self justify to push an agenda. Steven Weinberg could be wrong you know! And when you read that quote you can turn the whole thing around and come up with the same answer. “atheism is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things that takes atheism”. There are many religious people who step in to stop non believers doing evil things! Winning a Nobel prize doesn’t make you correct in your assumptions. He was awarded his prizes by other humans who also don’t know the answers to everything. You could have quoted Albert Einstein who made numerous quotes in his lifetime about the role of the divine and his belief in a source of all that exists like God. If it’s wrong to live a lie, when will you stop living one or indeed when will I, because we all have a limited knowledge of all that is so we need to be careful how we judge others.
Check out the comments of Rectilinear above to see why I dislike dogmatic religion. The poor soul is wandering about biased and weighed down by a bizarre and unwholesome mythology, believing that the whole human population is steeped in sin from birth, right from the word go, which is obviously complete and utter nonsense which spoils his/her participation in and fullest enjoyment of life.
Considering how short a human life can be this is tragic in my view.
I really am so very sorry for him/her.
I don’t have a problem with you disliking things, we all do. That’s no excuse for destroying some else’s faith by abolishing it. As for sin, I recognise my own. So it exists! I am not perfect, I make mistakes, I fall short of the mark. That is what sin is but to people of faith it varies according to the religion they follow be it Christianity, Islam, or even Atheists who are also not perfect.
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You generally find that people who say they are Christians and hold some warped sense of they know better are hiding behind their beliefs … perhaps he is gay and rather than come clean he has to punish others.
This ‘Punish’ the poor is all part of him fighting within himself and perhaps one day he will explode( If GCHQ are reading this I mean in the verbal) and save us all from his and his departments brain dead thinking.
Perhaps that is why he was picked for this job .. perhaps he thinks he was chosen rather than someone trying to find a thick prick who could would go with the flow and after seeing how much he could claim from the taxpayer just said Sign me on!
Reblogged this on Wessex Solidarity and commented:
Religious extremism at the heart of government.