Zero-hours Contracts and Universal Credit Are Still A Car Crash Waiting To Happen

DWP officials meet to discuss the implementation of Universal Credit

DWP officials meet to discuss the implementation of Universal Credit

Comments this week by the barely employable Employment Minister Esther McVey are so out of touch with the realities of work that they could only have been made by someone who’s never had a real job.

Forcing claimants to take on zero-hour contracts will be unworkable under upcoming changes to the benefit’s system and is likely to lead to huge numbers of people having benefits sanctioned and facing homelessness.  This will not be ‘enabling’ as McVey claimed.

For a long time now DWP Ministers have been panicking about how Universal Credit and increased benefit conditionality can possibly work alongside zero-hours contracts.  When the new benefit is fully introduced (stop laughing), claimants working part time will be forced to carry out ‘work related activity’ in the hours they are not working or have their in-work benefits stopped.  The DWP appear to have confirmed that this will include Housing Benefits, meaning that homelessness is to be added to forced work and child poverty as yet another weapon to police the poor.  Work related activity might mean attending a private sector company for shoddy job search sessions or CV workshops, signing on at the Jobcentre everyday, or in many cases workfare.

Claimants will also be expected to give up their current job for one with more hours at the drop of a hat, or take on an additional job until they are earning the equivalent of the minimum wage for 35 hours a week (or slightly less for lone parents).

What this means is that nobody will be able to sign a contract with irregular hours which expects the worker to be available at any time and not to work for anyone else.  With 1.4 million employees now on zero-hours contracts, that will mean unemployed people will not be able to take these kinds of jobs and stay within the new benefit rules.

The Government have said they are looking into banning ‘exclusive’ zero-hour contracts which tie workers into one employer.  They will have a fight on their hands with some of the greediest and most powerful companies in the country. They also say claimants will not be forced to take up these kinds of contracts.  But none of this will make any difference in practice to people in low paid insecure jobs under pressure to be at work at short notice.

As anyone who’s ever had a real job will know, most bosses are wankers.  You just try telling some jumped up supermarket manager that you can’t take a shift because you have to go and do your other zero-hours contract job instead and see how long you last.  It won’t matter if they are banned from saying in your contract that you can’t work for other people.  They’ll just sack you if you can’t go to work one day because your shift clashes with your other job.  The whole point of most zero-hours contracts is that workers are expected to be available to turn up at any time or at short notice after all.

Comedy toff Lord Fraud had already suggested that people could have two zero-hour contracts when he begged the business community not to use exclusive contracts and change their business practices to fit in with the Universal Credit regime.  He seems to think employers care more about implementing Iain Duncan Smith’s latest crazy scheme than they do about making money out of ripping off their workers.  But at least he realises there is a problem.  McVey is either in complete denial or is just plain ignorant about how the business world now works.

Universal Credit long ago became a bad joke, and one that will have desperate consequences.  Jobcentre advisors will soon have more power over workers than their bosses as people are forced into an endless juggle to keep one, two or more employers happy and maintain their ‘work related activity’.  Whether someone gets sacked or sanctioned, or both,  the outcome will be the same.  Thousands of people, some with children, left without any money to buy food and unable to pay the rent.

Above pic from here

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200 responses to “Zero-hours Contracts and Universal Credit Are Still A Car Crash Waiting To Happen

    • Cool shades, Mike 🙂 Ray-Ban? 🙂

      • ^^you’re skint because you’re a cunt.

        • Your comment on that there a cunt because their skint, all employers are ass holes and i will put money on it you’ve never done a hard days graft in your life.

          yours sincerely

          your a bigger c_nt




















      • They look more CHIPS seventies action cop captain. Granted you can’t afford Oakley on 70 sovs a week mind…

  1. It’s another calamity in the making.

  2. Reblogged this on Jay's Journal and commented:
    Bunch of pillocks – who? Why the DWP of course.

  3. Pingback: Zero-hours Contracts and Universal Credit Are S...

  4. Re-blogged this on Can’t be arsed writing my own blog and couldn’t be bothered commenting.

  5. gfranklinpercival

    Pilot these lunatic schemes on MPs first!

  6. Not to mention the tax nightmare of trying to work two jobs as an employee and avoid paying emergency tax on at least one set of wages.

  7. Hundreds of thousands sanctioned into homelessness, this is fast becoming the state sponsoring the socioeconomic destruction of its own citizens – civil war.

    Zero-hours Contracts legitimises the Indentured servitude of the British peoples.

  8. Lets have a pledge from Labour that if voted into power they would abolish “zero hour contracts”,at the moment Labour seems short on policies so let a ban on these contracts be one of their policies.

    • Rachel Reeves can not even say social security never mind unconditional, welfare reform is the left wing progressives ideological bastard.

      • Where is the wonderful European court of justice in all of this? People on here are saying that we need to stay within Europe because they are fighting for workers rights, – neither them or the unions are!

      • Landless Peasant

        You’re right there Voidseeker, it’s another bloody americanism! Successive governments are steadily making us more like America.

  9. I think the point of these reforms is being missed. Ministers are not in denial of what the consequences of their actions will be and, not only know but wholeheartedly accept these consequences.

    As with the current sanction regime where there is no comeback or representation for those affected so too will the new regime operate. None of these reforms are designed to get people into work merely to get them off benefits of any kind. by any means necessary.
    If this means hounding people until they give up altogether and slide into some obscure statistics relating to suicides and poverty then so be it. I think we can all by now agree this will make little difference to those in government.

    Getting people used to having to work for £57 to £71 per week is the ultimate goal. This is what the Tories hope will revive our fortunes in the “Global economy” enabling us to compete with all the third world countries.

    With the Salvation Army already getting planning permission to build container or portacabin based homes expect more of the same as those working for such low wages, unable to rent, are forced into “trailer park” type accomodation so loved by the USA. The alternative ( Tories already planning changes to planning rules) will be ghetto type accomodation with multiple families sharing one house. We already know the Tory view of people having a spare room.

    With the loss of legal aid, loss of council services and hence no one with the ability to take on slum landlords once again we can expect a return to the 1800’s within a few short years, slums, disease and poverty.

    Not in denial by any means but a carefully worked plan to keep those at the top at the top and the rest of us where we belong at the bottom.

    • Americans have a slight advantage that prevents their white trailer trash parks from morphing into concentration camps and that is the right to bear arms. 🙂

    • I think you may be right

    • bookmanwales.

      Exactly right.
      As with all the measures this shower of bastards introduce, we have to look at the ‘big picture’, and where it’s ultimately leading us.
      The dismantling of the welfare state.
      Now how do they do that without raising suspicion and fear amongst the population?

      Create a massive recession in order to facilitate all the cuts we have seen over the past few years.

    • bookman, nail hit nicely on the head there!

      • Ouch 😦

        • “None of these reforms are designed to get people into work merely to get them off benefits of any kind. by any means necessary.
          If this means hounding people until they give up altogether and slide into some obscure statistics relating to suicides and poverty then so be it.”

          This is the aim with “post work programme support”. those with barriers into work are heavily targeted and set up to fail.given unrealistic jobseekers agreements’ knowing full well the likely outcome then hoping they will just go away when inevitably sanctioned. harassment by G4s in collusion with jobcentre staff,bullying Pcs officials playing a frontline part in this too.

          The main thing is keep going and don’t give up.or give in.

    • geoff reynolds

      Concise and so exact, my friend…..

    • “we can expect a return to the 1800′s within a few short years, slums, disease and poverty.”
      The thing is: The Victorians realised that most of the diseases that come the poor’s living conditions effected them too, as a lot of diseases are “classless”. Prince Albert died of Typhoid, as did many more of the upper classes, until they decided that they had to do something about it.
      Now we are going back to the pre 19th century and I wonder if we’ll have another Spanish flu or plague, think about it? It’s not as daft as you think!

  10. I think Fester McVile must be a professor of urology, as she’s right royally taking the piss.

    I know IDS is, as he got it from dodgy online university that he never attended while he was not cheating the DHSS by being shacked up with his missus at the time.

  11. Going back to the Victorian era

    Saw an advert for waiter/waitress in local cafe:

    Help required 10 hours per week. Only those willing to do 10 hours need apply. I am not offering 16 hours or 35 hours or any other amount. If it’s not enough hours for you then DONT apply and waste my time.

    • Another Fine Mess

      A few weeks ago I saw a tempory job which was just for 4 hours, not 4 hours per week, just 4 hours total!

      • .I kinda think this stuff is the fault of the last “Labour” administration. Was it G. Brown who allowed his DWP minion to change the rules or was it before him, under Blair?
        Folks on the dole used to be allowed to do little part-time casual things for up to £15 a week without informing DWP. It was never a problem. Then some Whitehall based jerk got the notion this was taking ppl out of the jobs market. It was also, hiding the numbers of ppl doing little jobs a few hours a week. So that had to change. It would allow Govt to say look how many new jobs we have created.
        So we now see the utterly ridiculous ads for jobs at 2 hours a week. I have seen jobs for ONE HOUR a week too. Jobs for those hours are actually to be found on Universal JobMatch.
        We can thank the party that used to be “Labour” for all of that.

    • I bet the queues to apply for that job working for such an fair and respectful employer, ran, all the way around the block to Sanctionville.

  12. Iain Duncan Smith MP

    Have there ever been such stupid politicians before in British history? How are people supposed to do multiple part-time jobs, with a dash of workfare to fill in any vacant non-working hours, when they have to travel between one job to another or to the Jobcentre or whatever?

    Do this job for a bit… travel to another job for a bit… go to the Jobcentre for a bit… visit an employment agency for a bit… go to a private Workclub for a bit… and so on. How can anybody live long-term like that? Live day after day, week after week, month after month like that?

    Seriously: Iain Duncan Smith, David Freud and Esther McVey are crazy.

    • “Have there ever been such stupid politicians before in British history?”

      Yes – but never so many in power at the same time. Unfortunately the likely alternatives are equally stupid.

    • They will be stressed to the point of nervous breakdown like being in a war zone eventually people will crack.

      Zero hour contracts can’t work for people with responsibilities, maybe old people where it’s a bit of extra cash to supplement their pension or teenagers who still live at home with parents but not ordinary adults with bills.

  13. Just submitted a FOI to the DWP, asking how many or what percentage of these contracts are ‘exclusive’ zero-hour contracts which tie workers into one employer? I will also pose that same question to the TUC.

  14. Just a simple question Johnnyvoid. What do you do for a living and do you find it fulfilling as well as financially worth your while?

  15. It saddens me to say,but wait for the Riots,they will be unavoidable,push a society to far and when they have nothing to lose they will rebel.

    • The scenario seems inevitable – overcrowded jobcentre, extremely disgruntled jobseekers, G4S security throwing its weight about – something provides the fateful spark and the jobcentre goes up in flames… then watch the dominos start falling.

    • Only they won’t; they’d have to get off the couch first. You seem to be under the delusion we are fast approaching an Orwellian future but the majority of the UK aren’t in poverty, unhappy nor disenfranchised. Only 4.5 million possibly are whereas there are what; 64 million people in the UK.

      And as for the majority of said 4.5 million all they will do is pointlessly bleat, blog or bitch about their lot on-line. And no revolution is ever digitised.

      • Open Your Eyes

        Too right, the (vast) majority of the UK are ‘doing all right, Jack’! It is a (tiny) majority that are going to be squeezed in oblivion… and the sad thing is that the (vast) majority – save for Poly Toynbee as she does the requisite ‘hand-wringing’ from her villa in Tuscany – won’t give a shit as they slurp their lattes.

      • overburdenddonkey

        in work poverty is soaring over 7.8m, (out of the supposed 30m in jobs, of which are over 1.4m pensioners, another soaring number…there are 12m pensioners in the uk ), 0hr contracts are soaring, self-employment is soaring..which likely means over 40% of the uk population are now in or approaching poverty levels and/or in terror of it….over 12m people in actual poverty, last year and what a difference a year makes in our plummeting local economy….food bank use is soaring…. sanctions are soaring…the numbers that are sanctionable is soaring…the cost of housing benefit is soaring…economic inactivity is growing….pensioner poverty is increasing and set to rocket….malnutrition is soaring…things are getting worse not better…throughout history it has been shown time and time again, that the poverty numb oppressed or those in terror of poverty, do not, cannot readily is not apathy, but a profound lack of energy/resources, and this is plainly worsening…the miners only held out in the way that they did because they had some power/energy and the community strength to do so, this power has been drastically eroded…

  16. overburdenddonkey

    putting myself in the shoes of those facing a lifetime/long period of this frankenstien monster creation conditionality/sanction nightmare, these nasty people are (trying to construct) constructing, and what with the changes in state pensions, can only fill me with anxiety. the buy freedom paradox, moves into a new realm of barbarity. imagine 2 or 3 “non- exclusive” 0 hr contracts spread 24/7/365, tagged and literally lashed to work…there will NEVER be a time when one can form a thought for oneself, there will be no escape from this grind as worker is pit against worker to produce more goods, leading to even fewer jobs than there are now, survival of the ruthless, anti-welfare and work sets you free…anyone who has had contact with split shift work will know what a nightmare this will be….then say to an employer who one is on non-exclusive contract with, sorry but i have to go else where they really think that they will be offered any more work…you can bet your bottom $ who’ll be punished for it, erm, sorry offered more “support”…

  17. The only light at the end of the tunnel is that the government are such fuckwits that they are never going to be able to implement this shit fully before they are ignobly kicked out of office in 2015. That is unless Milliband turns out to be a cunt too…

  18. Reblogged this on Beastrabban’s Weblog and commented:
    Johnny Void here describes how the new conditionality clauses for Jobseeker’s allowance, which demand that claimants on zero hours contracts perform ‘job related activity’ when not working, and encourages them to take two or more, or change jobs to those with more hours, will force more people into sanctions and destitution. He’s right. Employers do not want people taking on other jobs. A friend of mine, whose partner used to work for Marks and Spencer, told me that while many of their jobs are part-time, the company demands that these employees nevertheless work exclusively for them. He puts these clauses down to incompetence. He’s probably right, but given the sheer malice and vindictiveness in the Tories’ treatment of the unemployed and part-time workers, I wonder if it’s not deliberate.

    • “He’s probably right, but given the sheer malice and vindictiveness in the Tories’ treatment of the unemployed and part-time workers, I wonder if it’s not deliberate”.

      That’s a bit like asking if the Nazis were cruel?

    • Part time workers usually do not pay full national insurance stamp thus undermining the welfare state yet again.

      It suits employers to have workers on zero hours contracts and part-time work as far as taxation goes. Who wants to work for employers like this anyway, all part time workers should be in solidarity with the unemployed, but they are not because they probably have partners who are working full time, so their spouse working part time suits their lifestyle and gives a boost to their income. Part time does not suit those who have to use public transport to get around nor those that are single, divorced, widowed or single parents all with only one income.

  19. Well this is going to be a living nightmare isn’t it and I agree with others that that seems to be the whole intention! Either turn people into worker ants or destroy them altogether. If this does come about I think the only thing to do is to ensure that you don’t apply for a zero hour contract if youi can help it or if you have to make sure they don’t like you at interview and don’t want you working for them even on a zero hour contract.

    These are no doubt the modern day Nazi party no civilised government would treat a group of it’s own citizens with such hatred. .

  20. I certainly have no intention of ever applying for a zero-hour contract!

  21. ……While the Recession was itself not the direct fault of the politicians, it was in part allowed to happen because of policies they adopted, like insisting everyone had to OWN a home. Renting was never good enough. Encouraging ppl without the proper means and resources to take out impossible loans for houses they could never afford has very much everything to do with it.
    However, the present NEW NAZI REGIME politicians are using “Austerity” to do what they always wanted to do, and that is return UK not so much to Margaret Thatcher’s Victorian values, but to pre Victorian times of the 1820s!
    The Establishment in Westminster is banking (literally) on the peasant plebs not rising up. It just doesn’t happen that way in UK. This is UK not Ukraine!
    True, there was riots in London and a few other big cities a few years back, fuelled in part by poverty, but that was not exactly an uprising. They don’t do uprising here in this big island. That is what is motivating the MPs most of whom are millionaires to do the things they do. The fact most if any have not the slightest idea of real society is also part of the problem.
    Class structure stratification throughout mainly English society, and a few toff wannabes from Scotland who “aspire” to the posh Mayfair society, help complete the setup that has given us such useless out of touch with reality politicians destroying everything.
    Now back to UK don’t do uprisings. Really?? What these out of touch things in Palace of Westminster (it stopped being a “Parliament” ages ago) don’t get, as has been said, ppl will only take so much of this.
    Previously, there was always the off chance a Labour Government would come in and do something useful for ppl, but Labour ain’t gonna do anything much of use to anyone it seems. When that hope you had that an alternative was even possible goes, and there is no other way forward, that’s when the ground begins to move.
    There will be trouble for sure, but it may only be low key, in local jobcentres here and there to begin with anyhow. There has already been attacks on DWP staffers but it has been kept as quiet as possible so not to set off a chain of events. Folks read about it in local papers when some judge fines a dude or jails dude a few months for lashing out, and its usually weeks or months after the incident. But that can only go for so long.
    However, with a vote for Scottish Independence, there will be turmoil at Westminster.
    If the millionaires in Pugin’s Palace at the Thames, (Pugin was the main architectural designer) don’t change direction then, the sparks will really start flying, if it hasn’t actually started beforehand.

    • “However, the present NEW NAZI REGIME politicians are using “Austerity” to do what they always wanted to do, and that is return UK not so much to Margaret Thatcher’s Victorian values, but to pre Victorian times of the 1820s!”

      Further back, I suspect – the aim seems to be a return to feudalism. We will be property, to be used and abused as our masters (medieval robber barons replaced by big business) on a whim.

  22. Kavalkade Krew

    Do you have the proposed bill? I’d like to read the “work related activity” language.

  23. To include the roof over one’s head now… well that says it all! I have said before and I say again that a basic shelter and a basic amount for food is non negotiable it’s our human right. We are British and this is as much our country as theirs. Who the hell do these chinless pratts think they are denying us the right to these two fundamental aspects of life? One is allowed these if you commit a crime but not it seems if one hasn’t.

    • You lose your personal liberty when you commit a crime and get put away. Why some people in this country act like a basic cell with a potential bully and food handled daily by your fellow inmates is a cushier deal than at least having your personal liberty is beyond me.

      • Charles Bronson - Britain's Most Violent Prisoner

        Hear, hear, sarah 🙂 but try telling that to ‘gaia’ 😉

        PS can I borrow a teabag? 🙂 Thanking you kindly, Miss 🙂

      • IDK about that some people prefer being locked up and it isn’t a problem for them as their life is so shit on the outside. Like JD says they get 3 square meals a day, pool tables, gym access etc.

        Not that i’m saying prison is a nice place to be or a stretch is easy to do. For the ordinary person it would be horrible, i certainly wouldn’t want it, but i know what JD means. There are people that don’t give a toss about getting banged up and they say “no worries, no bills to deal with, no food to buy, nothing!”

        It’s true, if you’re unemployed you’re thought of and demonized worse than a felon these days in the UK.

        • @Raining : “IDK about that some people prefer being locked up and it isn’t a problem for them as their life is so shit on the outside. ”

          You’re right it does happen –

          No amount of TV or pool tables would make me want to take that option, though.

          • No way!!!! i value my freedom too much!!

            • You have to risk your freedom to demonstrate and campaign against what is happening, we should be seeing more of it. You can’t fight oppression solely on a keyboard.

              • demonstrating > arrest > criminal record . unemployable… that’s the way it works in the real world…. nobody will touch you with a barge-pole as soon a they see a parking ticket, a speeding rap, bus lane contravention on that CRB bullshit…. that is how they have got us over a barrel! And any sort of criminal record effectively bars you from any sort of ‘professional’ employment’ whatsoever. However, it’s all fine and dandy to go demonstrating (and getting yourself arrested) IF you DO NOT have to earn a living, say you are retired, an ‘artist’, celebrity… but not if you are in the unfortunate position of having to earn a living because you are going to be sat on the dole for a looooooooooooong time. There are a lot of people who encourage others to ‘fight the cops’ but they are careful to keep themselves ‘squeak clean’. Anyway, boycotting businesses, hitting them where it hurts – in the pocket – is a lot more effective then ritualistic confrontations with the cops which only keeps those fuckers in well-paid, cushy jobs.

                • Mz Criminal

                  You only hit them in the pocket by demonstrating and closing them down, if that brings you in confrontation with the police that is because our criminal justice system is not just.

                  Given that most of the professionals are wimpish self serving wankers, who wants to join this club?

                • I’d take on board the above diatribe if any of it were based on reality. Minor car violations wouldn’t hinder any CRB/DBS check; however joyriding, numerous drunk driving charges or actually going Mad Max/mowing someone down obviously would and rightly so.

                  In most cases our liberal minded Justice system actually helps the criminal by ensuring they get a good education once inside and various chances law abiding citizen doesn’t. The ironic thing is career criminal then gets out, bitches about the non-indigenous stealing jobs and conveniently forgets they are probably one up on non-crims and non-indigenous alike. Although hold the ironic and insert moronic obviously.

              • Demonstrating isn’t gonna land you in jail as long as you’re doing it peacefully. Either is campaigning. Going around vandalising property or places, or intimidating others, is not gonna get us anywhere with our problems, except locked up. Plus carrying on like that will just further alienate people from looking at our gripes and evaluating them in a sensible and sensitive manner.

                The days when we could go out and do those sorts of things are long gone.

                As for we should be seeing more of it well that would be ideal but unfortunately it isn’t working that way in our society. The vast majority of people in work are not interested in our problems or in coming on blogs like this to read about it, i mean let’s face facts.

                Plus what ‘Criminal’ said is true; get locked up with a criminal record for any of these things and your chances of employment, anywhere, went from unlikely to impossible.

                • guy fawkes

                  Raining I did not vandalize, intimidate etc., I just sat and refused to move and I was arrested by police. The intimidation comes from the other side of the desk by dwp workers and other public bodies.
                  Who decided the Uk should be a police state?

                • The UK is Police State, guy! You are just going to have to accept the reality of the situation! btw guy, are you in favour of the this CRB/DBS/Vetting bullshit, “to protect the children”? – none of it caught Jimmy Saville! Anyway, it’s got fuck all do with “protecting children/whatever”; it’s an ‘economic punishment’ for those who won’t “toe the line”.

                • CRB/DBS/Vetting also works as an excellent means of social control; even points on your driving licence is enough for HR to show you the door never mind a conviction for setting the jobcentre on fire. That’s the REAL world for you, guy!

        • Part of the reason they are introducing more and more draconian, conflicting and impossible to meet conditions and reducing the options available to people to survive, is to make people become so desperate that they break down and resort to crime, so they can lock them up and force them to do prison workfare like they do in the US.

          They want as many unemployed people in prison slaving away for them doing prison workfare as possible, because once people are in the category of ‘criminal’, society agrees with making them work for nothing ‘so the hardworking taxpayer doesn’t have to pay for their upkeep’, ‘so they are not sitting around playing video games all day’ and ‘so they learn new skills’.

          • ‘Vagrancy’ – homelessness as a crime;
            A debtor – a ‘criminal’ offence.
            … saying the ‘n’ word “in any context” “in public or in private” …
            attending a food bank on 35 hour job-searching/additional mandatory signing-on time – ‘sanctionable’ offence when there’s an ‘r’ in the month …

          • The fact that there is so much unemployment is a crime but it isn’t, that’s because we all know who writes the rule book and it does not appear to be the working class, but it should be, they have earned and deserve that right considering they are the ones that did the building, the fighting, the caring etc.

            • If most of them knew that zero hour contracts are robbing them of their employment rights they might think again about working on such, especially academic students who should be more savvy.

          • The prisons are in meltdown with criminals so how’s putting the unemployed there gonna work?

            • “Nearly half of people in prison in England and Wales could be warehoused in 1,000-plus supersized jails under government plans to transform the prison estate, the latest edition of the Prison Reform Trust’s Bromley Briefings Prison Factfile reveals.

              The pressure of budget cuts and economies of scale have led to the roll out of “Titan prisons by stealth” with a drive to close small community prisons, build larger jails and add additional capacity to existing establishments.

              This is despite evidence published by the Prison Reform Trust and included in the briefing, based on data provided by HM Prisons Inspectorate, showing that smaller prisons tend to be safer and more effective than larger establishments, holding people closer to home and with a higher ratio of prison staff to prisoners.”


            • I never said put the unemployed there. I said that if someone destroys someone else’s property or assaults someone in a JC or something like that then they’re going to get banged up simple as that.

              I also said what good is that kind of protest going to be unless everyone does it? And that’s never going to be the case.

              Only way you’re going to change things is through legitimate channels through lobbying and campaigns.

          • To Ex Con

            You sound more like a prison warden than an ex con! Are you hiding in the woods like obd?

            • ps You seem to think there is one rule 4 you and another rule for everyone else.

            • overburdenddonkey

              g fawkes
              i’m fighting the system, not throwing tantrums coz they refused to hear you….

              • What the hell do you think I was doing but fighting the system – I don’t throw tantrums.
                People do not see to appreciate straight forward speaking or the truth.

                • Frank Bruno (hiding in the woods)

                  Jeez, guy, you are always spoiling for a fight 😡

                • overburdenddonkey

                  g fawkes
                  the truth is that the system is highly toxic..i’ve seen the way the state handles dissent, it locks one up and throws away the key etc etc, it is doing what is collectively possible…fight them administratively…and i’m not saying that you were not abused by the state coz you were and are being, it is time for you to get rid of that bottled up rage caused by it….see my above post to neil for more details, explain why people are dis-empowered with facts, figures, and provide empowerment/encouragement …see the way boycott workfare do it, ecap do it, jv does tithe truth, methods shown to work, is we don’t have unified communities any more…encourage them, one cannot demand them..accusing people of being whimps is not helpful, finding areas of collective strengths is…

                • overburdenddonkey

                  p s g fawkes
                  typo omission, “ecap do it, jv does it, the truth/true reality of where we are is vital, use methods that are shown…..”

                • Guy fawkes

                  When I see justice being seen to be done, then I may join other organizations, until then I will attain justice in my own way and search for the perpetrators who arrested me for peaceful demonstration, which is not against the law, so why was I arrested? It is not just me that has been targeted, members of my family have been also, who are every bit as educated and determined to see justice enacted as I am.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  g fawkes
                  good for you, we all do that as well, but this is not the common fight..our system is not structured to be just, we need a new one for that!

                • Tool of the State

                  It is well nigh impossible to ‘fight’ the State, guy, because there will always be ‘tools of the state’ be it DWP/JC employees, coppers, shrinks, social workers, psychiatrists, prison warders, psychiatric unit warders, lawyers, prosecutors, judges…. all the way up/down to executioners if need be; all handsomely rewarded with their thirty pieces of silvers. Even Hitler knew this! it is the SAME people only a different time/ a different place. If Hitler took power tomorrow it would be the same cunts in the jobcentre sending you off in a cattle-track to the gas-chamber. And, anyway what the fuck is the point of keeping these (mostly middle-class) cunts in a job??

                • overburdenddonkey

                  tool of the state
                  too right you are…

                  Click to access 176_16-18.pdf

                • WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO

                  Frank Bruno

                  Pick on someone your own size – I think you will find it was ex con that was spoiling for a fight.

                • Guy fawkes

                  Tools of the State.

                  No way would I keep any of the human resources/community state controllers you mention in a job, I will see them out on the streets first.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  ex con was truthfully saying it as it is, not charlie bronson…

                • Guy fawkes


                  He was implying I don’t live in the real world, I suppose my stay in a cell was a figment of my imagination, no wonder they take your phones away in the police station, incase you record what is really going on.

                  He also implied I am or would ever be an arsonist, which implies he is an arsehole.

                  I actually agree that Charles Bronson should be released if he is no longer a danger to society. (there are plenty of innocent people in jails around the world and in guantanamo, who have not had a fair trial)

                • overburdenddonkey

                  g fawkes
                  charlie bronson speaks for himself here…unbottle your rage, we are all suffering by cause of what our infantile state is doing…we have to do things that get us somewhere…common cause, is vital…

                • overburdenddonkey

                  p s g fawkes
                  useful if i post the link….

                • Guy fawkes


                  Don’t tell me that I am raging, I am either stating facts or debating, arseholes are spoiling for a fight not me, i just reply to them in kind or disagree with their stance as in the case of Lucy, who attacked me for my opinions.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  g fawkes
                  well don’t accuse me or others of not doing enough, or the right things “hiding away in the woods”…put your case across, for doing what ever you think is the right thing to do….people are entitled to their opinion of it, what ever is posted….

                • Guy fawkes

                  So you think I have no right to reply to those that attack me first for my views? I think you are wrong.

                  Like her I make my own decisions and stick to them.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  g fawkes
                  no! i said you attacked me by claiming that i hide in the woods….i was not even in conversation with you, but you used this to squash ex-con’s views…as if our views are crap and yours are not….you did not produce facts nor evidence but a put down…

                • overburdenddonkey

                  p s g fawkes
                  you did not produce facts nor evidence nor respectful opinion but a put down…

                • Guy fawkes


                  I think you are seeing slights where none are intended towards you, you are over sensitive to things that were meant to be a put down to others not you. Like you said my conversation was with someone else, but I perhaps should not have used your name when referring to the woods.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  g fawkes
                  now you put my view down by saying it is over sensitive…ie you judge…

                • Guy fawkes


                  Get lost, you judged me by agreeing with ex con!

                • overburdenddonkey

                  g fawkes
                  it was you who decided to mention that i live in the woods, not me, and you are telling me that i should not react to that…you mentioned it knowing that i would react to it….you had no need to say it…why not react to my posts instead of goading me to react to you!

                • Guy fawkes


                  Your grievance is to do with something that happened in your childhood, yet you openly said that those that were in a position to help you and knew what was happening didn’t
                  Given your age which you have implied is in your late fifties, it may be easier for you due to the time lapse to take a different stance or be more forgiving.

                  In my case however I was attacked, abused and locked up by state agencies for nothing, the last time in 2011.

                • Guy fawkes

                  ps I never had and still have no police record as such prior to or after these occasions, I was let off with a caution the first time and locked up in a mental hospital 3 times after that because I refused to do new deal and my benefits were sanctioned.
                  Don’t tell me that is justice!

                • overburdenddonkey

                  g fawkes
                  outstanding…conversation over coz with you it will never be progressive nor logical but will tack all over the place…

                • Disclosure Scotland

                  Just a small point of clarification: a caution will appear on a standard, enhanced, enhanced, with lists check and PVG (Protection of Vulnerable Groups) Scheme Record (in Scotland). It is a common misconception people have that they have been “let off with a caution” and it won’t show. Just for further clarification the above checks will show all spent/unspent convictions, cautions, reprimands and warnings.

                • Guy fawkes

                  Disclosure Scotland

                  Thanks for that titbit of information but quite frankly I couldn’t give a damn whether it shows or not what the bent bill and beaks think.

                  As for being vulnerable, only in so much that my neighbours are a pack of liars.

  24. Pingback: Zero-hours Contracts and Universal Credit Are Still A Car Crash Waiting To Happen | the void | Launchpad: By and for mental health service users

  25. Time for a Reset – look it up or listen here to Mark-devlin-Good-vibrations-podcast-vol-38
    No violence but the people asking and voting for a national convention through their parish councils for abolition of taxes which we the people have the right to do going back to the Magna Carta and the whole house of cards comes tumbling down!

  26. I just noticed this on an independence website, re Westminster’s persecution of the poor:

    ‘Child Poverty Action Group in Scotland –
    A 56 year old claimant was sanctioned for missing one appointment (he admits the error). As a result of the sanction the claimant had no money to travel 14 miles each way to sign on for his hardship payment. The jobcentre advisor moved his appointment to the middle of the day so he would have time to walk the 28 mile round trip in daylight.

    Back to the 19th century.

    JV observes that jobcentre advisors will soon have more power over people than their bosses. They already have more power than the criminal law, since (as he’s also observed) people can be put on workfare for twice the length of community service. And an academic, David Webster of Glasgow U., has noted that sanctions are heavier than fines imposed by the courts. All without anything resembling due process.

    Meanwhile the various human rights charters to which Britain is signatory just sit there and look pretty.

  27. After the second world war we asked how can people do that to the Jewish race?
    Its happening again.

    • That is why those fit or enough need to stand up and fight against it.

    • CPAG in Scotland / Training in Scotland
      Sanctions and the claimant commitment course.

      Dates: Wednesday 21 May 2014, 10:00-16:00 FULLY BOOKED

      Glasgow, £100 Citizens Advice Bureaux, £120 voluntary organisations, £175 statutory/other organisations, Training CPD hours: 5, Tutor: Henri Krishna

      CPAG in Scotland exploiting child poverty and soaking up dissent – POVERTY PIMPS.

    • Hibees going down…………

  28. They were talking about zero hour contracts this morning on a BBC program. The Instute of Directors guy saying how wonderful they are and that workers with them are very satisfied – utter rubbish of course! Don’t you love the way those who are literally rolling in cash support these cut-backs -for everyone else! They of course have their snouts well planted in the trough so it’s ok! Utterly disgusting!

    • JD I watched that also, the fella you talk about who was in support of a ad hoc workforce, was a self serving small, minded, small business person, probably from the CBI.

  29. Landless Peasant

    I fear there may be widespread civil disobedience and some very destructive Riots this Summer, in which the Jobcentres could be attacked, even burned down, and running battles with G4SS goons might rage for days on end. I do hope I’m wrong, but that’s the feeling I get.

    • I do hope you are correct, then all benefits can be paid unconditionally and directly into the bank for those that are eligible.

      • Hard-working Taxpayer

        Good idea 💡 , guy, it would save us hard-working taxpayers a tidy sum too which could be better spent on schools and hospitals instead of lining the pockets of lazy, useless 👿 jobcentre staff 👿 ! :mrgreen:

        • A lot is being wasted in the NHS and Schools at the moment so I think the money saved should go into creating jobs in other areas, then other people may have a chance of being hard working non-tax payers, until they raise wages for these people soon.

    • Won’t happen Landless.

    • I have similar fears – it’s still early days, but once the full impact of the benefits system changes is fully realised and a sense of desperation sets in I think things will become very ugly.

      I hope you’re wrong too, but I think your feeling is correct.

  30. Landless Peasant

    This is why we are all skint, not because of immigrants, not because of unemployed ‘scroungers’, but because of greed:

    ‘Rich List’ counts more than 100 UK billionaires

    • Correctamundo Cunningham.

    • Richard Branson is a Bearded Wanker

      Yeah, see the workfare-exploiting bearded wanker, Dickie Branson is at the top of the list 😡

      • Dickie "Bouffant and Beardy" Branson

        Wanker? Moi? Don’t be silly. I pay people working for Virgin, on zero hour contracts, the minimum wage to do my wanking for me.

    • Billionaires who are changing the dynamics of the voting system against working class values, the thing that made them rich in the first place.

    • Landless Peasant,

      in the event of the UK social security system collapsing and in being unemployable I have been scouring the globe seeking social security asylum, have not yet found a nation that welcomes social security asylum seekers. Maybe the peoples of those nations are all greedy or they do not want to stress their own social security systems.

      • Perhaps if they did not call it asylum seeking then they may be in with a chance with everybody and anybody.

    • “Tom Perkins, the legendary venture capitalist who provoked a firestorm by comparing the persecution of Jews in Nazi Germany to the way rich people are treated in the United States, on Thursday offered a provocative idea about how to “change the world.

      The Tom Perkins system is: You don’t get to vote unless you pay a dollar of taxes. But what I really think is, it should be like a corporation. You pay a million dollars in taxes, you should get a million votes. How’s that?”

      • Have never really found the vote to be of any particular political value would welcome a £100 note if it could be sold.

        Politics would probably be more dynamic without a dumb vote every 4 or 5 years.Simple Simon Electorate says put your hands in the air.

  31. I think this is more about appealing to the teeth-grinding Daily Mail brigade than anything else. IDS really does not care if the whole UB thing is a chaotic shambles,as long as the poor,disabled and unemployed live in fear. It’s about ‘punishing’ and humiliating them to make middle class England feel better in times when their own lives seem a tad frustrating. But the politicians that exploit these people are the worst. Deflect the anger. Invent scapegoats. Make money for yourself and your chums out of the misery of others. And finally get power from fear and lies,cleverly made up by expensive PR men and tame journos.

    You have to wonder at the mentality of the kind of people that vote for disgusting stuff like this in huge numbers,presumably out of selfishness and hatred toward others . I doubt if I will ever look quite the same way at the prosperous quiet green suburbs of South East England any more,knowing the way so many of my compatriots think and behave these days.

  32. Tories have a funny sense of right, wrong and success. This morning on the Andrew Marr Show, David Cameron tried to steer the interview away from his European woes onto “welfare reform” and how what a “compassionate” success the coalition’s “welfare cap” was because, he claimed “one out of ten” people on benefits before it have now entered work “because” of it. Trouble is that mean that nine out of ten (90%) haven’t entered work since the cap was introduced and are now falling into terrible difficulties financially, getting into arrears with their rents, having to pay part of their Council Tax etc., all out of capped benefits which are suffering an indefinite real-terms cut while inflation remains above 1%.

    Whether 10% of benefit claimants have entered work because cuts and caps have forced them is debatable, but what is 100% certain is that 90% of those who haven’t found work have been ground much deeper into the shit than the were pre-coalition. Success? Compassion? I don’t think so.

    This is the kind of craziness that permits apeshit policies to be enacted.

  33. nagga munchettes knickers in a twist

    i saw the narcessistic cunt cameron on the marr show too,what a smooth criminal is he,answer questions with questions,pruning and preening himself ooozing into the camera blah blah welfare blah blah reform

  34. This is more than a nightmare:
    The councils are going to go into meltdown having to constantly change the housing benefit and council tax benefit.
    Imagine you are on Zero hours & you don’t get hours 1 week and have to sign on then you get hours for say 2 weeks and then none for 2 weeks. You are going to be living at the council changing forms almost ever week. And then what if you’re sanctioned (for bonuses) you risk losing your rented property.
    The whole thing is a farce, invented by maniacs

  35. This government secretly admire the North Korea model and are aspiring to it.

    Its all about control of the masses.

  36. Just so you filthy scroungers know you may have to sign in at night:

    We do not make mistakes, we are more perfect than God himself. *Kisses portrait of IDS*

  37. “I will also attend appointments with my Coach when I am told to.”


  38. In all seriously though I think I’ve possibly been sanctioned, she never said but well, I went to the Job Centre despite having a list of 30 jobs the Job Centre Advisor,decided I hadn’t applied for any, just like that. In fact she didn’t even look at my diary and do what what she is supposed to do, sign it.

    Now because clearly I’m one of the ones that aren’t doing enough to find work by George Osborne’s high towel folding standards, I have to sign on weekly at erm… 2:10am. Well this is the department that likes to make sure everyone follows everything by the letter and then some more, I guess I have no choice but to obey. Haha

    • Jobcentre is SHITE!!

      2:10am – you been serious?! Did the ‘adviser’ bitch fill out the ASE ‘stencil’? They have to do that to raise an ASE ‘doubt’

      • Well it’s obviously a mistake but you never know with the DWP… though I might technically, despite the mistake, have to be there for 2:10am until someone changes it. Seriously stupid as fuck. She tried to pretend I never applied for any jobs, she didn’t bother even looking one glance my diary, absolutely nothing not even my next weeks plan that we do, so it was all pre-determined. Someone needs to reach their sanction target to get their cookie bonus.

        I don’t recall an ASE stencil but I am on high alert. I now have a shit load of other “meetings” now. And their data is messed up as my account had new information placed in it recently, for some reason data from 2 years ago has reappeared to replace the updated data. Someone else I know at a different Job Centre has had that happen to them so it’s standard practice.

        • Jobcentre Staff Are SCUM!!

          I call these pre-planned sanction interviews 👿 RADs (Raise A Doubt) 👿 after the 😈 Reichsarbeitsdienst 😈 – the Reich Labour Service 🙂

      • Another Fine Mess

        Is it possible that the JC work roach doesn’t actually know the difference between am and pm.

  39. Capitalism Must Die!
    A basic introduction to capitalism:
    what it is, why it sucks, and how to crush it.

    Click to access cmdebook111213.pdf


    Self Service MP’s clear off on holiday again and line their pockets with second jobs.
    What a shambles while so many are suffering and distressed.

    I can’t bring myself to vote UKIP but something is very wrong in this Country. These things are biding their time to make things even worst after the elections next year.

  41. Fighting the state will always be a very difficult task – it is bigger, more powerful than us, and has a lot more resources at it’s disposal. However, there are things we can all do, such as picketing stores that use Workfare conscripts, handing out leaflets and talking to people. There is a lot of confusion, and ignorance, a fair amount of support for us, and, it has to be said, a little hostility.

    We obviously have our own take on the changes being wrought in our society, but we need to get out there on the streets and engage with people, explain our side of things and not just leave it to the likes of the Daily Mail to be the sole source of information.

    It’s easy to assume that the ‘general public’ is against us, but that is far from the case. It’s usually just that they generally believe that people on benefits have an easy time of it, and have swallowed the nonsense about claimants getting mega bucks, thinking that means that all claimants are getting that much.

    It only takes two or three people to stage a successful picket of a shop, and you only need to spend an hour or two doing it – but make a regular thing of it, and tell your friends about it – tell your local Labour Party about it, (good luck!) at least then they would know that it is an issue they have to address locally – involve the local press, telling them that you are doing it becuase of the deafening silence from the likes of the Labour Party. That, at the very least should make any hack reporter worth their salt at least contact the local Labour Party for a comment. Better still, contact the local Labour Party yourself and record their response and put it in a press release. If there is a better, (i.e. more friendly to our cause) political opposition option for the next general election, involve them too, especially if your area is represented by scummy Labour.

    • Our local press are on the side of scummy labour, as it was a labour mp that was elected, none of the councillors know what the hell they are doing, nor do those that are in opposition to them. Community is used for everything and they are a right shower too.

      Nobody is going to fight for you, you have to fight for yourselves.


    Having just watched DIY SOS, it made me realise just how much good hearted people there are…………..

    It showed a geordie couple, a man who had worked hard down the mines and his wife who had developed some kind of muscle wasting ailment.
    What stood out in my opinion was the closeness of the couple and their daughter in the face of adversity.

    The amount of people who turned up to help relative strangers fascinated me to the point i could feel tears in my eyes…………
    These close knit communities are shining light in all that i thought was lost.

    True people from a savaged area, resilient from Thatchers mine closure programme.
    What you see is what you get with northern folk, real friendship and caring, something that the PCS Union should grab with both hands instead of crucifying those they are supposed to help

    Surely you get a much better buzz from helping rather than harming?

    I could not sleep thinking that i had done something bad to another human being, how do the DWP staff manage to turn off, knowing they are bestowing pure evil on their victims.
    How can you take away a persons subsistence and not dream of the consequence of your actions?

    Mark Serwotka does not represent human beings, these are dehumanised zombies administering pain at each and every level…………
    If i had not fed a hamster it would worry me that it would be ok, so how do they do it to another person?
    It must be so easy not to form a bond with a client and hand them what could turn out to be a death sentence in a brown envelope……..
    If they could see the collateral damage from a single sanction it may change their minds, but i strongly doubt it…………

    Having a gun to your head to make targets and impress your superiors is more important than goodwill to all men………….

    “Common decency has become a thing of the past, it seems, but those geordie lads gave me a glimmer of hope that good will succeed over evil as history remembers this dark dilemma that took away human kindness”


      DIY SOS

      Big Society feel good propaganda.

      The show is now a one hour programme in which the team enlists the help of local tradesmen, suppliers and the larger community to help deserving families.

      The presumption must be that there are undeserving families.





    A record number of wounded war veterans have been denied disability benefits in the past year
    after undergoing tests carried out by the Government’s controversial assessment company.

    Hundreds of injured ex-soldiers are being declared fit for work by Atos Healthcare in spite of
    physical and mental injuries they suffered in the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Last night, the Royal British Legion (RBL) announced a 72 per cent annual rise in former
    soldiers having their applications to receive Employment Support Allowance (ESA) turned down.
    Several hundred wounded personnel were denied the benefit on the basis of physical
    examinations conducted by Atos, according to the RBL.

    The company is contracted by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) to assess benefits
    claimants’ capability to work.



    • They are not ‘our’ troops, they are their troops. They don’t serve the country, they serve the ruling class. They are the enforcers for the ruling elite’s imperialist projects and the ruling elite rewards them for going to other people’s countries to kill for them, by abandoning them when they come home injured.



    Response: Atos Healthcare will assess both the physical and mental “scars of combat” and are
    able to assess the effects of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Servicemen discharged from the
    Forces are entitled to a pension when their disability was caused or aggravated by service. For
    those who claim Employment and Support Allowance (ESA), a physical examination is a small
    part of the Work Capability Assessment (WCA) process and people are only asked to do what
    they can and what is comfortable, with their specific consent. Ex-armed forces personnel who
    claim ESA are likely to have a variety of health conditions both physical and mental health
    related. The WCA would identify these as part of the existing WCA process.

    Anyone wishing to claim ESA will undergo the WCA process. The WCA is based on the premise
    that eligibility should not be based on a person’s medical condition, but rather on the way that
    their medical condition limits their functional capability. Following the WCA, Atos Healthcare
    provides a medical report to the DWP. The DWP Decision Maker considers the Atos Healthcare
    advice as well all other available evidence.


  45. something survived...

    If you improve your home we’ll evict you….
    If you get a job we’ll stop your dole even though your job is not real and pays nothing though we forced you to take it
    If you break a leg on workfare,,, we’ll kneecap your other leg.
    Then sanction you for not crawling 28 miles over broken glass in the dark on a motorway at night, to get to the jokecentre for 2am each night, to sign on with Clones Of Pigface (numbers: infinite; may supplement with winged monkeys). If you manage to reach the jokecentre Pus, we’ll stop your ESA for being too fit and then do you for benefit fraud.
    Then put your children in a meat grinder.
    And make you nail your testicles or tits to a statue of the glorious IDS, while singing a hymn of praise to him in a new daily/nightly Citizenship Ceremony (for which, all shitizens will be woken every hour; any failure will result in uncitizenship, jail, deportation or death but not necessarily in that order.).
    Long live big brother…. Slavery is freedom?!
    (Satire… but scarily may not remain entirely thus for long..)

    • SS: LOL! i got a chuckle out of that! Especially the bit about crawling over a broken glass strewn motorway for your 2am appointment! Priceless!

  46. nagga munchettes knickers

    im gobsmacked that the national service bill gets second reading on friday and no reaction from the under 26,s when half the armed forces were laid off,this was the ready made replacement,i fear kids think it wont happen but from friday a nod from the lords the roayl scroungers sign tories win election which sadly they will and its compulsery service,yes youngsters can say no when called up but then lose ALL benefits and prison,the tories are keeping it under the radar very cunning a good way to gauge the hoi poloi is by reading netmums or mumsnet postings cameron and smith have stopped “single mum” bashing for now ,so gets them back onside national servive will be for males mostly and they havnt grasped that universal credit will hang em high,so weve got a “daves quite cute really” situation going on so add that to the blue rinse vote and weve got another five years of hell,ide bet my last pound cameron has “advised” smith to lay off the single mothers working or not for now,these fuckers are drunk on power they love it theyll do anything to hang on to it!!!!


      It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to work out their evil motives. I agree entirely with your thoughts.
      What troubles me even more is the thought of young women deployed to fight beside them……..
      One thing is for sure, nobody will be going to any theatre of war from whitehall, and if they did, just a cursory visit far from the action, surrounded by Gurkhas.
      One of the royals with a million pounds of security or Cameron pretending that we are all in it together, frightened at the mere bang of a firecracker…



        bill to reinstate compulsory national service for 18-to-26-year-olds is set to be debated in Parliament early next year.

        Kettering’s Conservative MP Philip Hollobone, who sponsored the bill, is convinced that some form of service for youngsters, be it charitable work, care for the elderly, work linked to the NHS or participation in the armed forces, would help instil a greater sense of ‘self-respect, personal reliance, discipline and behaviour’ into society.

        “I believe that the introduction of a modern form of national service would prove popular with the public and be of immense benefit to the young people who take part,” he explained.

  47. National Service didn’t work during the 1950s and was abolished in 1960. Typical a TORY “Colonel Blimp” MP wants it restored, someone who has doubtless never lifted a finger to do any proper work. Another of those desk-bound wallahs sending others to do their dirty work.

  48. National Service for the 18 – 26 year that as Homeland Security Brownshirts!

  49. Stitching-up claimants is all part of the job, says Jobcentre insider (Mirror)
    Read it and weep:

  50. colourstyledimensions

    “600,000 job vacancies the DWP and Daily Mail tell us every week. Is this the new mantra. Probably only 25000 real jobs for 3.5 million unemployed. J Void please write something to kill this figure off. It’s a number repeated ad nauseum!

  51. Pingback: Inverclyde Debate, 8th April: Opening Statements | A Wilderness of Peace

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