Unpaid Work Schemes Are De-Skilling A Generation And Perhaps That Is The Intention

try-before-you-buy

A delegate at a recent skills conference promotes the use of unpaid work schemes. h/t @screenedout

Anyone who thinks you need to carry out an unpaid work experience placement  to be qualified to work in Poundland has never shopped in fucking Poundland.  This is not being a job snob as former Employment Minister Chris Grayling claimed when people objected to Tesco using unpaid staff.  It is simply recognising that an employee in a shop adds value to that business from day one – and so they should be paid from day one.

The growth of unpaid work in the UK has been justified with familiar claims that the young are lazy, or need to be taught how to get out of bed in the morning.  There is nothing new about this.  The generation that came of age in the late 80s and early 90s were ‘slackers’ and all the same crap was said about us.  Now some of those slackers are saying the same thing about young people today.

The truth is that the young are working longer for less money than at any point in the last half century.  Many are on shitty Apprenticeships which will be paid just £3.30 an hour even after an increase which takes place next month.  Others are not even being paid at all and are working full time on Work Experience schemes whilst trying to survive on £57.90 a week Jobseeker’s Allowance.  To put this sum in context, as far back as 1989 employer based Youth Training schemes for 16-18 year olds paid a similar amount to this and usually came with a day-release placement at college once a week.  Even this has now disappeared.  Those on the government’s Work Experience scheme receive no formal training at all beyond the odd workshop in how to write a CV.  A recent survey of employers found that even 26% of young people on an Apprenticeship only received less than 3 hours training a week.

This shocking statistic comes from the Employer Perspectives Survey carried out by the UK Commission for Employment and Skills (UKCES).  This large annual survey has regularly been used as evidence that unpaid work experience for the young is essential because this is what employers say they want.  The DWP’s recent disastrous #WECan campaign was launched with a gushing press release quoting from the survey that two thirds of employers say that “work experience is a crucial factor when hiring new employees”.

This was an outright lie.  What the survey actually says is that 23% of employers believe ‘relevant’ work experience is critical when recruiting staff whilst 43% said it was significant.  This is just obvious.  The first thing anyone’s going to ask when offering someone a job is whether they’ve done it before or not.  In some cases, such as being an airline pilot, it will indeed be critical that they have had some experience flying a plane.  Yet the #WeCan campaign claimed that any work experience was important, no matter how irrelevent to the job hopes of the young people concerned.

The DWP are not the only ones who have been less than honest with these survey results.  UKCES themselves have misrepresented the results to promote the value of unaid work – such as in the tweet below which claims that work experience is the most common attribute employers cite as lacking in young recruits.  A look at the accompanying graph shows that employers appeared to think that it is work or life experience that is lacking amongst new young recruits.  A look at the survey from which these figures came shows that what employers were actually asked was whether education leavers had a “lack of working world / life experience or maturity”.  Even then less than half of bosses said this was a problem amongst 16 year olds, whilst only 14% of employers thought that 18 year old college leavers lacked life/work experience or maturity.ukces-tweetWhat this survey suggests is that it is just not true that most employers are obsessed with the idea that the young are too lazy and feckless to work. And this shows in their recruitment practices.  31% of employers said they had recruited an education leaver in the last 2-3 years whilst only 29% had recruited someone over 50.

The current obsession with mass workfare is not just pandering to the needs of employers, it is pandering to the never-ending whining of the worst kind of employers – like the 10% of bosses who brazenly told UKCES that the reason they offered work experience placements was to help with the workload or because it meant they didn’t have to pay people.

Legislation is on the way which will force all young people into an unpaid traineeship, an unpaid community work placement, or if they can find one, a poverty paid Apprenticeship.  These are young people that could be studying at college, or might have gone to university had the government not tripled tuition fees.  They could be fucking about with computer code, or motorbikes, or making things to flog online.  Or making music, art or youtube movies.  From the UK’s once thriving music scene to the once thriving alternative press, young people with time on their hands have achieved incredible things which have brought benefits to the whole of society in time.  And in that process they gained far more work/life experience or maturity then any shitty work placement in a supermarket could offer them.

Unpaid work experience schemes are de-skilling the young, the opposite of their claimed intention.  But perhaps this is really why they exist.  With the number of middle class jobs expected to shrink due to automation then there will no longer be space for social mobility.  The architects of workfare schemes are simply ensuring that in future the good jobs go to their kids and the working class youth are put back in their place.

This blog has no sources of funding so here’s a quick reminder that you can help ensure it continues by making a donation.

Join me on facebook or follow me on twitter @johnnyvoid

302 responses to “Unpaid Work Schemes Are De-Skilling A Generation And Perhaps That Is The Intention

  1. Reblogged this on perfectlyfadeddelusions and commented:
    Thank you Tories for making a new generation think unpaid work at Tesco and pound land will get them employment, you really are despicable.

    Knowing that the companies will just wait for another willing victim to take the place of the last person, because unpaid work saves companies millions.

    Fuck you Tories!

  2. 3D printing will pretty much end manufacturing anyway. Many jobs just won’t exist. Educated, skilled staff where needed can be got from abroad for far cheaper than hiring someone who had to feed and clothe a UK family. The so-called elites won’t need the lower orders any more and it’s difficult not to think they’re already well aware of that.

  3. so far, i’ve only had luck getting “jobs” through agencies, minimum wage, unsure hours, no sick/holiday pay, no redundancy, etc…

    this isn’t a life, i’m barely scraping by, maybe one of these days i’ll run into one of the few companies that don’t recruit through agencies and they’ll give me a chance but until then i’m doomed to live in squalor as most of my wages are pissed away on bills and upkeep of my humble 1 bedroom flat

    this isn’t what i expected life to be like when i was a kid, it’s hopelessly depressing

    • In a world ECONOMY that is more interested in profit than people, the capitalist will set up shop where it can get the cheapest labour, whether they import it to bring our costs down or export the means of production to other countries.

      We need to end monetarism, bring the rich down to our level.

  4. The depression of wages and the abolition of opportunity for the young is the worst kind of short termism. It will profit employers and the employing class only for as long as they can still find markets for goods and skilled labour from abroad. Its a recipe for creating a banana republic, without the bananas.

  5. Your last paragraph sums up what I’ve suspected for a while.
    It’s self evident there’s too many people for to few jobs now and this will worsen as automation takes over. Expect the cull of the disabled and vulnerable to step up a gear and widen its net as this happens.

    • & the last sentence ~ I’m sure this is right (wrong, but ‘right’).

      • De skilling a generation who will only be capable of shovelling tarmac on roads, hod carrying, trench digging etc.

        Those that are in favour of a basic income are probably home owners who want to use the imported skilled cheap labour to do up their houses on the cheap and are happy with the self employed and service industry culture that we have had thrust on us.

        These said homeowners will also get BI to buy the labour on the cheap also, not because they need the money but because they don’t want to spend their own savings doing it.

        • Where is your evidence for this? And, because everyone would receive a basic income, it would be easy to not avail oneself if any work should the pay, or working conditions satisfy.

          And let’s not forget that plenty of ‘working class’ people are also homeowners, especially in areas like the South Wales Valleys and in Cardiff where many took advantage of the selloff of freeholds in the city.

          I also find it hard to instantly equate self-employed workers with the enemy, as, if they only employ themselves they are not exploiting other workers, and are not capitalists in any sense, as they seek to make a living, not a profit.

          Why the opposition to a basic income for all? Sure, it’s not a sinecure, but it would go a very long way to solving some very seemingly intractable problems and actually lead to a freeing up of people to do the things they want to, such as be creative, start their own business or, just do their own thing.

  6. Pingback: Unpaid Work Schemes Are De-Skilling A Generation And Perhaps That Is The Intention | the void | sdbast

  7. When I left school, I was taken on as a trainee seamstress and it took me five years to learn everything from being trained on every sewing machine to cutting out fabrics and all the tricks of the trade. There’s NO way someone could learn my trade in just a few months and sadly most trades will be gone when my generation retire

  8. The only jobs I am offered now are cleaning jobs, despite me being a legal secretary for 12 years full-time solid. Ageism is rife and no amount of laws will eradicate this.

  9. overburdenddonkey

    the concept of a basic income, land rights etc is looking sweeter by the day..
    http://basicincome2013.eu/en/index.html

    • Basic income – rubbish compromise.

      • overburdenddonkey

        guy
        please yourself, but to me it’s common sense, getting it will require a social revolution…

        • If you are going to fight for a social revolution it needs to be a non-monetarist one not be offered the crumbs off the rich man’s table, who are going to keep their mansions, yachts and money for themselves and have the power and means of product and manipulate the workforce with the the threat of automation.
          We should be producing all of these things not to be owned but to be used for the benefit of all – read my idea of what the world should look like uneconomically on jv’s last posting, it is possible to live, produce and exchange in a world without money.

          • ps If the people own the means of production, then the automation incorporated will mean more leisure time for the workers and only they will profit by it not some steel magnate etc.

            • overburdenddonkey

              but a basic income will redistribute wealth otherwise it will have no value in the market place, ie it must provide reliable supplies of vitality giving vitals of life….we’re less needed in the work place, in 20yrs there will be 50% fewer jobs than there are now…

              • How will it redistribute wealth? It is going to give a basic income to all that means the rich also? Either you have wealth you want to keep hold of, that is why you are opposed to a free society or you just want to argue with me for the sake of arguing I do not know, but what you are proposing will solve nothing because a basic income can easily be depleted or withdrawn altogether by the powers that be, just like they are renaging on the welfare state.

                • ps Johnny is always asking for donations to keep his site running, how can you afford the wings over Scotland site???

                • overburdenddonkey

                  guy
                  ‘Either you have wealth you want to keep hold of, that is why you are opposed to a free society or you just want to argue with me for the sake of arguing…neither….absolutely anything can be taken away… how many times do i need to repeat….’but a basic income will redistribute wealth otherwise it will have no value in the market place, ie it must provide reliable supplies of vitality giving vitals of life….’ i was telling you what i believe, i have….

                • overburdenddonkey

                  ‘ps Johnny is always asking for donations to keep his site running, how can you afford the wings over Scotland site???’
                  look @ the rev stu’s web site under ‘donate’….

                • but a basic income will redistribute wealth otherwise it will have no value in the market place.

                  What are you talking about? If the market place is free then there is nothing to value, can you grasp that concept?

                • overburdenddonkey

                  means of exchange……?

                • obd
                  Ten of your cows for one of my chicken🙂

                • I did not see it as barter, but as catering for theneeds of countries.(altruism). If we and they can produce and EXCHANGE, not barter what people need if and where possible, the system can be run as it is now but without an exchange of money.

                  Some countries are self sufficient and have enough manpower to do the work, the only thing that would be missing are the overlords as they will no longer own the means of production.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  the bricklayer may not want what you offer..they find the paper vouchers very convenient…

                • Ten oxen for a bag of grain😀

                • A bag of grain for access to your gold mines and your labourers.

              • overburdenddonkey

                bloody cheek you started the argument and now you tell me that i must agree with you or i’m arguing for arguments sake…no! i respond, as is my right too…

            • So the bricklayer doesn’t want security, he is happy with so called self employment, that can leave him wanting pay day loans to pay for his lifetime mortgage and bills he has got into debt for when there is a lull in work ,or he is laid off because of snow etc.

              Basic income, if not spent, would help in this situation, but would only benefit those that are in work as it would not be their only income as is the case with the unemployed at present.

              Again it sounds like putting two fingers up, to those who are not in work and have to live on that income, not save it.

              Just another unfair system that benefits the richest and does not account for the poverty throughout the world that are being exploited workwise.

              • overburdenddonkey

                guy
                stop sniping @ me coz i don’t agree with you and explain your proposals…
                the key problem in the uk is lack of affordable housing how would your proposals solve that and build 3m homes with decent sized gardens so, ie veg can be grown…?

                • I am not sniping, I am telling people who would benefit from a basic income.
                  We have the UN, Nato and the European parliament and they can’t organize a pissup in a brewery, why? because it is not in these fat cats interest to do so.

                  That is why we and many other countries are in need perhaps of houses and gardens, not specifically for growing veg but because of the movement of people. You are the one that keeps saying Scotland has lots of land and is in favour of more immigration. A one world non-economy would end economic migration.

                  Things only have a value because we put a value on them. Who gave anyone the right to sell the world and everything in it????

                • overburdenddonkey

                  guy
                  you still haven’t answered my question; ‘the key problem in the uk is lack of affordable housing how would your proposals solve that and build 3m homes with decent sized gardens so, ie veg can be grown…?’ (it will take approx 1m acres of the 57m acres of land available in the uk), and i’ll add the/all housing ought to be social housing owned by the people…’but a basic income will redistribute wealth otherwise it will have no value in the market place, ie it must provide reliable supplies of vitality giving vitals of life….we’re less needed in the work place, automation has accelerated this process in 20yrs there will be 50% fewer jobs than there are now…’
                  actually ending war would stop people movement…africa for example has more than enough land to feed all who live there…and yes it is because people want to own it and do own it, that the peoples suffer so much…i have never said i wanted immigration but i do not condemn it neither it’s what happens…but don’t tell me coz i disagree with you that i am encouraging suffering…i just cannot see how your proposals will work, and how one would get mass agreement (consent) for your proposals esp now nor in the near future….

                • Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

                  Problem is I don`t don`t any of it. Stop infighting.

                • Who is giving obd the last WRONG WORDS and refusing to print my reply, that he is the one that is twisting my words. He is the liar regarding what I said about BI.

                • YOu did say you would be happy for Scotland to have immigration as there is plenty of fee land.

              • Arguing for a basic income will not fix the problem of house building either.
                What about arguing for the rich to hand over the keys to their empty luxury apartments.
                You are too subservient for my liking, pandering to the rich rather than challenging them.
                Wanting to be independent and put yourself in power of your own country, does not help other countries if you get it and that includes the UK.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  ‘Arguing for a basic income will not fix the problem of house building either….’ yes it will…

                • overburdenddonkey

                  ps actually arguing for it is not the same as the change but once it’s in place…. yes it will…

                • The only way basic income will build more houses is if you can get rid of the welfare state, hand extra money over to the rich in basic income on top of their wealth and salaries and put the working class to work to build these houses on basic income.
                  A win win all around for the capitalist ideal of cheap labour an end to the welfare state as we know it(but not saving money because we will be paying the rich benefit also) and a nice little earner for the capitalist class that want this system.
                  You are a sell out merchant of the working class obd.

                • ps when the working class have built these houses on cheap labour you then want to have them pay incremental increased rent for life for their trouble.
                  Pull the other one.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  now you’re complaining/arguing that building 3m decent new for rent homes is a sell out…when in fact rent and house prices will plummet…
                  i repeat this…’but a basic income will redistribute wealth otherwise it will have no value in the market place, ie it must provide reliable supplies of vitality giving vitals of life….we’re less needed in the work place, automation has accelerated this process in 20yrs there will be 50% fewer jobs than there are now…’

                • Rent and house prices will plummet, you really believe the market works on a supply and demand economic structure. House prices are artificially inflated in the housing markets anyway, but a fall will have only benefitted those that bought and sold while the going was good. The same with shares in the utilities, the rich bought first cheap, then sold on to others when a fall was indicated.
                  Markets can be manipulated like anything else and are. That is why we want a free economy not a so called free market economy.

                  Where did you get the projection that there would be 50% fewer jobs once 3 million houses are built, does our infrastructure not require more of anything else, do we not need more nurses, doctors, dentists etc.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  you say that the rich will get BI but the poor won’t and among other twists you’re now claiming that i said as a result of building new homes there will be fewer jobs..i’ve said what i need to say, i’ve nothing more to add…

                • Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

                  Everyone give it a rest – As usual the interesting thin are below all this shit.

                • Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

                  I don`t read all this shit !! Where`s th reply button – Waste of time finding the reply button.

                • Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

                  FULL STOP

                • Obd

                  Can you read, I did not say the rich will get BI and the poor won’t, I said the rich will get BI on top of their wealth and the poor will be doing what Roosevelt did in the 1930’s to revive the American economy, put the poor to work on basic incomes and cheap labour to rebuild the infrastructure.

                  It is you that is doing the TWISTING mr Twister.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  no i’m not a liar, i made a mistake that can been seen by all as a mistake…
                  the idea of BI is paid for NOT working, obvs work will attract a wage, you excluded that from your summation which is what i actually meant, you said the rich got wages/salaries and the poor didn’t, but basic income..and you’ve failed to correct the false statement, among others…’Where did you get the projection that there would be 50% fewer jobs once 3 million houses are built, does our infrastructure not require more of anything else, do we not need more nurses, doctors, dentists etc….’ i never said that…
                  i’m now finished with posting to you on this subject…

                • overburdenddonkey

                  ps just to clarify a BI is paid whether one works or not, to people of working age….
                  i repeat this…’but a basic income will redistribute wealth otherwise it will have no value in the market place, ie it must provide reliable supplies of vitality giving vitals of life….we’re less needed in the work place, automation has accelerated this process in 20yrs there will be 50% fewer jobs than there are now…’

                • BI will only redistribute wealth to the richest, but will replace unemployment benefit, forcing those in receipt of it into cheap labour new deal schemes as labourers if not skilled.

                  You are proposing nothing new, stop making out you are some kind of messiah, when all you are doing is copying an American system used by Roosevelt, that started off all of the New Deal shit that Blair and Brown adopted, you just want to see it through.

                  You are a phoney obd. Why should BI be universal and those in work and wealthy receive it on top of their wealth, that is not re-distribution to the poorest.

                  I’m done talking to you because I know who I represent and unlike you it is not the capitalist class.

              • PS. THOSE IN WORK AND ON LOW WAGES ARE ALREADY GETTING A BASIC INCOME IN THE FORM OF TAX CREDITS AND HOUSING BENEFITS – BUT THEY ARE NO BETTER OFF REALLY JUST KEEPING THEIR HEADS ABOUT WATER.

                • ABOVE WATER.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  http://basicincome2013.eu/en/index.html
                  ‘What is Unconditional Basic Income?
                  The initiators of the present initiative – which aims at exploring the feasibility of a European Basic Income scheme – emphasize that UBI should not replace the welfare state but rather complete and transform the same from a compensatory into an emancipatory welfare state. Emancipatory Unconditional Basic Income is defined by the following four criteria: universal, individual, unconditional, high enough to ensure an existence in dignity and participation in society.
                  Universal: In principle every person, irrespective of age, descent, place of residence, profession etc. will be entitled to receive this allocation. Thus we claim a European-wide, guaranteed, unconditional Basic Income.
                  Individual: Every woman, every man, every child has the right to a Basic Income on an individual basis, and definitely not on a couple or household basis. The Unconditional Basic Income will be independent of their circumstances: of marital status, cohabitation or household configuration, or of the income or property of other household or family members. This is the only way to ensure privacy and to prevent control over other individuals. It enables individuals to make their own decisions.
                  Unconditional: We regard Basic Income as a human right which shall not depend on any preconditions, whether an obligation to take paid employment, to be involved in community service, or to behave according to traditional gender roles. Nor will it be subject to income, savings or property limits.
                  High enough: The amount should provide for a decent standard of living, which meets society’s social and cultural standards in the country concerned. It should prevent material poverty and provide the opportunity to participate in society. This means that the net income should, at a minimum, be at the poverty-risk level according to EU standards, which corresponds to 60% of the so-called national median net equivalent income. Especially in countries where the majority have low incomes, and therefore median income is low, an alternative benchmark (e.g. a basket of goods) should be used to determine the amount of the Basic Income, to guarantee a life in dignity, material security and full participation in society….’

                • You really believe all of this drivel, which a blind man can see is not distribution of wealth to the poorest alone as it should be, instead it is topping up the richest peoples bank accounts. I do not believe it will be unconditional for the poorest either.

                  If we are losing 50% of employment as your projections says, it is because they are moving the means of production to where the capitalist can get cheap labour using antiquated machinery.

                  You paste and copy stuff because you don’t have your own mind, you believe any crap that comes out of Europe.

                  The world is bigger than Europe.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  guy
                  we are the precarious classes and the downtrodden…the millions in poverty in the uk, massive food bank expansion…it is highly likely that in 20yrs time 50% fewer workers will be required coz of automation…no hands on the economic levers as we have no democracy in the uk…the bulk of goods, clothes white goods tv’s cars et el for uk consumption made abroad, no strong industrial base…our jobs have been sold off… mostly service and retail in the uk…we cannot touch the ‘island’ financial sector, nor set up home where the bulk of decently paid uk jobs are the south of england…. soar away inflation…we cannot get @ capital to start businesses, we have no land rights, no rights of tenure…
                  http://tlio.org.uk/welfare-reform-is-ending-the-bribe-for-the-theft-of-our-land/
                  too few new homes are being built…ruthless ever accelerating welfare ‘reform’…we’re practically reduced to being beggars…we no longer people the factories, therefore means of production is estranged from us…millions cut off from means to reliable supplies of vitality giving vitals of life….where’s our power to change anything…? i don’t know how you propose to change this, you said take over mans of production and produce what a country needs within a country, but where do much of the required raw materials come form…? but we can only do this if we have political power, the keys to the economic levers, without money or means of exchange we cannot do this… http://www.allofusfirst.org/ we are the lower orders, in terms of having economic power, as we have very little power, like this term or not….of course it’s distribution of wealth…GLOBAL WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE..it ain’t gonna happen…and just what are these goods services and food stuffs that we’ll be able to get for free going to be….just nip into the local car dealer and pick up yer free car….!!!?? we need to get back to natural natures way of doing things a perma-culture…. skara brae

                • Obd

                  You promote your Skara Brae which i have argued with you about more than once and I will promote my vision of a one world uneconomic production.

                  I have already said – who gave people the right to buy and sell the world.
                  It is all there for free for all.
                  There are those that have developed farming and other industrial equipment and have benefitted financially from developing something that should have been given to the people to produce for free.

                  We all own what is on and under the earth.

                • guy I don’t think it is wise to have one world, it is better to have diverse and individual worlds. There is always gift giving between people, then there will always be bartering. There will always be a currency, but it should not be excluded to the richest people, the most well off or the leaders. People should have personal ownership of things. people should be able to express their individuality.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  guy
                  yeah i know that it should all be free but we’ve lost access to it and our lifestyles have been drastically changed by behaviorist based noeliberalism that represents wealth/capital and therefore the holders of that wealth and we still need transaction currency which is only after all merely a means of storing energy, without rapid decay..
                  i don’t recall an argument about S Brea, what argument the/an could be about it, i have no idea…your idea may happen in the dim and distant future but it cannot happen now….
                  there is much support for a EUBI…that’s the only way currently available in mine and many others view’s to redistribute wealth until common sense and humanity prevails… a EUBI will change everything… drive prices down, it will change how we live how we provide for ourselves and put taxation burden where it ought to be, on the wealthy and institutions et al…
                  otherwise it cannot be paid for, nor economically viable, nor meet it’s prime objectives…it’s also ecologically vital to move towards the perma-culture the EUBI will start to shape…
                  who gave people the right to buy and sell the world, might is right did, but it doesn’t matter, it’s what has happened/is still happening…but i don’t get why you made the point, saying it solves nothing it’s not an action, the ‘owners’ will not be shamed nor change there ways coz you say it, as they have political and economic power…
                  you can try to take it off them you might even succeed which i doubt as the key players will control all actions in this regard, and as history teaches us it will soon be taken back from us by the greedy…as EUBI is tactile and represents subsidiarity, it’s less likely it can be removed unless we the people agree to it….
                  we can only change things if we get our hands on the levers of economic power…
                  anyway good luck with your one world theme, it ain’t gonna happen anytime soon…it’s massively more pie in the sky than EUBI is…@ least there’s a glimmer of hope with EUBI as it does have support in many places…

                • Maria that is your opinion not mine.
                  Keep up your Scottish campaign with OBD.

                • OBD your argument with me about the villages that used to be in Roman times being the ideal, I said they were all under the rule of the Romans anyway and that I was not in favour of it.

                  I even posted our own Roman village that was unearthed in my town.
                  I think you must have Alzheimers or something because you conveniently forget an awful lot, while repeating the mantra of Scottish independence.
                  Why you want to be affiliated to Europe if you gain independence proves that you will not really be independent anyway.

                • obd

                  anyway good luck with your one world theme, it ain’t gonna happen anytime soon…it’s massively more pie in the sky than EUBI is…@ least there’s a glimmer of hope with EUBI as it does have support in many places…

                  Especially the capitalist class.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  guy
                  ROMAN WTF…??
                  ‘If Scotland remains part of the uk parliament as well as supposedly being independent, then they are going to secure decent housing, health care etc at the expense of others in the uk.’….WTF…?? if scotland is indy there will be no uk parliament, some political expert you are….

                • What I meant was Scotland at present is fighting for independence and holding the uK parliament to ransom for better deals for themselves with regards to housing , healthcare etc, just as the Welsh miners did to us when they broke away from the NUM.

                  My point is that you will still be part of Europe which does not make you independent and will have powers there also that could undermine the rest of us who still live in the UK if you are only looking out for yourselves.

                  Skayer brea or whatever you call it is you promoting more Scottish ancient lifestyles as the ordeal and which you said was operating in Roman Times.
                  Look through JV’s old posts.

                • As the ideal not the ordeal.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  no i never, S Brea predates the roman occupation by several 1000 yrs and is nothing like the roman divide and rule culture and it’s in orkney ffs!….and as for scotland and the uk parl you haven’t the fainest idea what you’re talking about…

                • I had said uk instead of Eu if you gain independence (slip of the tongue) not self serving statements for independence and appeasement towards the capitalists for BI.

                  I am more of a political expert than you that’s for sure.

                • Skayer Brae societies that existed in the dinosaur age didn’t get a mention when I studies sociology(the study of societies) – perhaps it will be taught to the Scots.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  there are many countries in the eu indy of the uk so what’s your point…?
                  now we’re jurassic park millions of yrs ago…

                • Why are you saying we are now Jurassic Park, when you made the distinction between Scotland and the Orkneys as separate entities, and I was talking about your incessant ranting about the Orkneys Skayer Brae societies which we have discussed but of which I knew nothing so I replied with the only remaining villages from Roman times we had in our area.

                  Stop nit picking, you are showing your true nationalistic, self serving colours, you want independence but you also want back up from the EU.
                  I hope the Uk pulls out of this money grabbing monolith.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  BYE….

                • Yes obd it is time for your bye-byes.

                • guy the nearest I ever got to Scotland was a good whiskey, I’ve never even been, never mind had a campaign going there. It doesn’t matter if Scotland becomes independent or not, its still not right to have one state that governs all the world. Absolute power corrupts and if you have one state, the future is likely to bring in one leader, eventually. Whether you start off with a leader or not, we need over cultures, otherwise we’d all become the same, bland and boring and zombie like.

                • Marie

                  Who mentioned a one state. I was referring to mutual organization of goods and services free for all – no money necessary, making everyone equal to a share of what the world has to offer in return for what they can give.

                  If the capitalists can produce it (with a currency) The world can produce it without one and good will. Do you watch programmes in US that obtain and refurbish homes for ex servicemen or the makeover programmes in this country – or cowboy builders, Do the recipients pay?
                  Why should people have to wait for charity?

                  You seem to like the art of buying and selling, giving and receiving probably because you are in a position to do so financially, some families find it hard to buy their children Christmas presents if on benefits which will be tantamount to what basic income has to offer.

                  Why can people not be individuals because they get their goods and services free. Do you think those that are being sanctioned have any individuality, even on low benefits they will not be able to have individuality, they will have to work to provide a decent income and that is why the rich will get BI so that they can be the employers of those forced to be self employed.

                • Guy, you have it so wrong, if you think I am in a financial position to do anything. I don’t even have benefits, everything I get is given to me. I am one of the disabled the government has turned against. I live with relatives, there is no where else except the street left for me to go. But I don’t have much money, I never go out anywhere, I’ve become a recluse since the government decided I could work in any job and with out any sort of help except with C.V>s and interview techniques. Its been like that for four long years, don’t say I don’t know poverty because I do. I was once one of those children, when some Christmases there were no presents, hell some Christmases there weren’t much food either.

                  You need a system, it you don’t have any currency, if people are free to help them selves, greed doesn’t just stop at money, it is in resources too. If you let people help themselves, the very same Tories will come and horde up all the resources, it is human nature for some, but not for me. I said people should have their own possessions, I didn’t mean have more that they will ever remember they have, never mind ever more than they need in a lifetime. I would like a world where everyone respects each other and looks out for each other, but in this world that is fairy land because not everyone wants to think the same way you do. you are wrong, I could have been sanctioned, but I walked away before they did, because I was on the dole too, but I was an easy target for them, I left because they wasn’t going to help me and they would have left me on nothing and worked me to death with the same hand. Your wrong if you think I have no individuality because I am poor and you do not need goods and services to have them. People make their own things, and when your poor you learn to make things out of almost anything. I am a writer and that is my individuality.

                • Maria

                  Good luck with your writing I think you need it and good look with your own opinion of how people and the world would react to an orderly system, but stop telling me I am wrong when I give my opinion or I will refuse to reply to you.

                • You was wrong about your presumptions you made about me, but yes the rest is your opinion. I don’t think a perfect ordered world exists, but we can do the best we can and make sure no one is exploited or loses out in the process, we agree on that don’t we?

                • in reply to one of you other posts, I don’t have a income expect of £20 per week I live with my relatives Guy on charity, I used to be on benefits, I used to be on incapacity, because I was on jobseekers 8 years before it, the jobcentre told me I should go on the sick because I was so long on the job centre, when the people were more reasonable than they are today, they decided I was unemployable and too disabled to find and carry out the demands of work, because employers where outright refusing to take me on because from my interviews they could see by looking at me I am not strong enough for demanding work, nor can I hear well enough to deal with clients or customers. It was their idea, until this government came along and decided I can do whatever anyone else who is strong and who can hear perfectly well, as if I don’t have any barriers to work. My dream was to work and do any job, but life does not work out the way you want it. Now I am completely stuffed after begging the dole to find some equipment and extra help for getting a job and they refused. My relatives are old, some my other relative are only just getting by like everyone else, my future is dark, its very likely in future I would end up on the street, if nothing changes that is.

                • Maria

                  What presumption have I made about you that you think I am so wrong about, because I never mentioned you.

                  I will now though, not only are you BLIND to what capitalism is all about , deaf to other peoples opinions, but fucking dumb as well if you think I am falling for that clap trap. Creative writing indeed you have taught yourself.

  10. Fuck it, the country is fucked. There’s nothing but creeping fascism, England is too full of idiots who will scream that any half decent measures will ruin this country- even when it’s literal falling apart right in front of them. Permanent austerity i.e. permanent economic repression is here to stay.

  11. They want a low-wage, low-skill economy. Just like in Victorian times.

    • The people can have everything they need if they owned the means of production throughout the world, the greens keep telling us not to build on land we need, the rich are building luxury apartments to stand empty and the conservationists are telling us if everything was free we would soon use up the worlds resources – not true most goods can be recycled and reused and not everything needs to be owned as in bought, just the right to the tenancy of your home for life unless you chose to move, there can still be choices and options available in a free society.
      If the capitalists can produce butter and beef mountains to leave to rot as they have done in the past and luxury apartments empty, then there can be enough produced to go round.
      If such a thing became a world reality the rich would be wanting to buy up islands no doubt, where they can hide themselves and their possessions and their slaves, but their money will be rendered useless.

      • The problem is not shortages, it is that capitalism over-produces. There is more than enough to go around. That is why we have butter mountains, wine lakes, dump bananas at sea, all courtesy of the CAP (Common Agricultural Policy) designed to create a shortage and keep prices artificially high.

  12. I find it difficult to put into words my utter revulsion at these totalitarian capitalists who are out to ruin people for profit. Utter bastards who wont flinch until their homes are surrounded by those millions out for revenge. A revolution is happening now to restore power back to the few who as Tony Benn said have always run the world.

    • Joannes

      Who do you think are these few that are supposed to be running the world?
      It is we who need the revolution, they have propaganda and money at the moment but it could all be different if the people rise up for a real revolution.

  13. I agree Guy Fawkes the people need to rise up and the sooner the better. Those running the world are bankers, hedge fund managers and politicians bought off by them.

  14. Working-Class Hero

    The sharp-elbowed middle-class nobheads always make sure that THEIR kids get all the good jobs. It has always been the case.

    • Working-Class Hero

      The criminal class don’t do a bad job either of getting whatever they want.
      They can’t lock us all up in jail for fighting for a real revolution.

      politicians, secret services etc have been the agitators throughout the world to create civil war, this country does it by voting in the Tories who are trying to dismantle anything decent that was set up – but creating a new capitalist basic income will not solve the problems for us or anyone else.

      We need a one world non-economy – no profits other than what people need.
      We can still invent – research for cures etc, etc. or we can sit back and be defeatist or accept the crumbs on offer as a quick fix.

      I think I have laboured enough on what could be possible with the will of the people, it’s up to others now.

  15. Sorry, it’s a link to the Heil but this has to be read to be believed http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242550/Cameron-pig-bemused-look-face-future-PM-took-outrageous-initiation-ceremony-joining-Oxford-dining-society.html Obviously a mistake, he simply fell and his penis slipped into the pig by accident. His spin doctors are going to be busy this week. Did Boris and Gidiot do the same thing?

    • Picture warning. (Those of a sensitive nature… etc.)

    • 🐷 Feel sorry for the poor pig having camoron shafting it.

      • Marie – I’m glad that none of our pigs were involved in this ‘debutchery’ – too long ago! By the way that’s a good pig’s head icon!

        • I wonder just how long it will be before the ‘Media’ drop or conveniently forget this story – if they keep it going, so much the better, but I somehow doubt that we will hear much about it by the end of the week!

        • Cheers Paul

          • This will never go away, just as Blair has his legacy as a war criminal it will now be impossible for anyone to ever look at Fat Dave without thinking Pigfucker. All he had to say is there is no photograph because it never happened, but he didn’t and I wonder why. Every world leader who meets him will think Pigfucker and when it comes time for him to resign and start collecting the retrospective bribes that make being an ex-Prime Minister so lucrative, which companies will say we really need a Pigfucker

        • shows just what he really is, who would want to be part of a club with such people is beyond me.

          • It reminds [me] of the scene in ‘The Day of the Trifles’:-conventions/morality are abandoned once no-one is looking (impunity rules).

            Some of the men in an early-on scene, step outside of their everyday reality and exercise their newly-discovered power over those who are at a disadvantage & so exploitable.

            This story seems to have struck a chord insofar as people seem to find it feasible/believable – the media are sounding like indulgent parents almost, if not directly saying, ‘oh well – boys will be boys! What else can we expect?’!

  16. Too Many out There are Slavery Collaborating oblivious Zombies when
    what is Needed is Decent People who Understand the Difference between
    Freedom and Slavery

    Tabloid Brainwashed Boneheads and Middle Class Toffs in their Ivory
    Towers

  17. People should of Acted 5 Years Ago in 2010 AD instead of just Drifting
    about with Beer Cans putting the Blinkers On whilst the Tories as the
    Trojan Horse of Slavery and Social InJustice with Liberal Democrat
    Collaboration Started the Onslaught on the Welfare State and Public
    Services

    The InAction of too Many is Sickening Collaboration

  18. Reblogged this on Sasson Hann and commented:
    As my friend said about middle class jobs: ‘the top is full, they don’t need you anymore; this is why they introduced high university tuition fees and scrapped many adult learning classes. They can’t have you in competition with their own offspring for the decreasing middle income jobs’.

    Yet why then are business bosses saying that they can’t find enough skilled workers? Instead of giving millions to fake job coaching companies, why doesn’t the government use that money to train and educate unemployed people? It doesn’t make sense, other than there would be no money in that for their mates of course.

  19. Henry VIII’s Rule Degenerated into That of a Bloated Selfish Greedy Tyrant
    but that of Margaret Thatcher was Evil to Start With.

    May the Memory of Margaret Thatcher Rank with that of Adolf Hitler One
    of the Most Cruel and Vicious and Evil Tyrants in World History

    • Yes Thatcher aimed at domination through privatization Hitler used violence.

      Here is a list of her crimes: http://www.dystopiaearth.com/?p=1998#comment-27264

      1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
      2. She destroyed the country’s manufacturing industry
      3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
      4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren (“Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher”)
      5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
      6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
      7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
      8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed – the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
      9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
      10. The poll tax
      11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
      12. She compared her “fight” against the miners to the Falklands War
      13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we’ve been railing against for the last 5 years
      14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
      15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
      16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
      17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
      18. Section 28
      19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as “that grubby little terrorist”
      20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
      21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
      22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
      23. She invented Quangos
      24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
      25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
      26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
      27. The Al Yamamah contract
      28. She opposed the indictment of Chile’s General Pinochet
      29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
      30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
      31. BSE
      32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
      33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
      34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
      35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
      36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
      37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain – £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros – £1 billion
      38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
      39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
      40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
      41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
      42. 21.9% inflation
      43. Covered up the Hillsborough disaster to protect the police. –TRAP: The Real Art of Protest

  20. As For David Cameron I Believe that His Resignation as Prime Minister
    is in Order .

    It was and is Disgusting that the Liberal Democrats Propped Up the
    Tory Regime from May 2010 to March 2015 AD

    The Liberal Democrats could of Helped Stop the Attacks on the Poor
    and Vulnerable but did Not so Shame on Them

  21. “FUCKING DESPERATION, CORBYN COULD CAUSE MUTINY OF OUR ARMED FORCES”

    A senior serving general has reportedly warned that a Jeremy Corbyn government could face “a mutiny” from the Army if it tried to downgrade them.

    The unnamed general said members of the armed forces would begin directly and publicly challenging the labour leader if he tried to scrap Trident, pull out of Nato or announce “any plans to emasculate and shrink the size of the armed forces.”

    …………………………………………………………………………………………………….

    …………………..Marvellous people, these unnamed generals, sporting chests full of ribbons and medals awarded for no more than lighting a fire or tying a complicated knot.

    Strangely i have never heard a general complain when one of his lackey’s was confronted by a member of ATOS or MAXIMUS, to inform them that their missing limbs or battle induced syndrome did not make them unfit for work.

    The UK has more fucking generals than any other nation in the world, each sitting on a cushty pension in a paid for residence.

    • The Army has more top brass than battle tanks, alarming statistics have revealed.

      There are 256 brigadiers and generals but just 200 Challenger II tanks, according to the figures uncovered by a former senior military intelligence officer.

      It also emerged there are three times more senior officers than Apache attack helicopters, which play a vital role in Afghanistan.

    • 🙂 They are all sitting in the house of lords, the once overlords.

      • “Another Notch on DUNKO THE CLOWN’S belt, Guy”

        ‘MY ‪#‎MOTHER‬ ‪#‎RubyUrbacz‬ age 59 was found dead at her home on the 6th September as a result of a heart attack. She had been admitted to hospital a 01/08/15 for chest pains where they found she had had three minor heart attacks. Even though my mother had poor mobility , type 2 diabetes, very basic numeracy and literacy skills and mental health problems including depression, she was deemed “fit for work” by the DWP .

        [PETER REQUESTS: ‘Please do not comment with sympathetic messages as this will not change anything, instead share this post and make as many people aware of the contemptuous nature of our self serving government who punish the poor and give to the rich.’]

        She was put on JSA and hounded to show evidence of looking for a job she struggled to write a shopping list and thus constantly worried about money and if her benefits would be stopped.

        Her benefits were stopped without without any investigation as she missed her jsa appointment whilst in hospital, after her discharge she had received no money for five consecutive weeks of the £50 per week she would have normally received she was also paying £20 per week in bedroom tax. On only £30 per week She could not afford to feed herself properly as bills were her main priority, so was living off food bought from poundland which obviously worsened her diabetes.

        She was getting carer visits from the red cross. After her discharge from hospital. On the the 4th September the cares notes say “Ruby is worried about money, still waiting for benefits to be sorted.” She died less than 48 hours later.

        I’m writing this not because I want sympathy but to make you aware that Ian Duncan Smith’s policies are directly contributing to the deaths of the most vulnerable people in our society.

        • Nick permalink
          September 20, 2015 1:27 pm

          NOTED AND FORWARDED TO Ms Catalina Devandas Aguilar, Special Rapporteur on the rights of persons with disabilities FOR THE UN

        • We all know it’s really sad when vulnerable people, who should be supported, die like this due to a deliberate policy of disregard of human compassion from the DWP. What happened to your ‘duty of care’? Shame on the DWP – you have blood on your hands. Murdering thousands of vulnerable people is a crime against humanity. But a word of warning for those inhuman murdering cunts at the DWP. What goes around comes around. Just like the Jimmy Saville child abuse inquiry, one of these days all the horrible destructive criminal practices and resulting deaths instigated by DWP injustice and their partners will be looked at in an independent legal inquiry. Under this kind of spotlight the DWP will have nowhere to hide.

  22. IDS should be locked up for life!

  23. Margaret Thatcher Jezebel of the British Regime also Shut Down Chatham
    Dockyard after the Falklands War and Portsmouth Dockyard lost it’s
    Dockyard State through the Naval Base is Still there .

    Margaret Thatcher Jezebel of the British is also a Traitor in British
    History as her Regime pushed the Single European Act of 1986 AD
    without a Referendum and denied British People a Vote on wherever
    to stay in the EC .

    Membership of the EEC has Cost Britain a Fortune which should of
    been Spent on Public Services including Welfare Provision

    Johannes | September 21, 2015 at 11:03 am | Reply

    Yes Thatcher aimed at domination through privatization Hitler used violence.

    Here is a list of her crimes: http://www.dystopiaearth.com/?p=1998#comment-27264

    1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
    2. She destroyed the country’s manufacturing industry
    3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
    4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren (“Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher”)
    5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
    6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
    7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
    8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed – the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
    9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
    10. The poll tax
    11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
    12. She compared her “fight” against the miners to the Falklands War
    13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we’ve been railing against for the last 5 years
    14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
    15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
    16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
    17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
    18. Section 28
    19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as “that grubby little terrorist”
    20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
    21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
    22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
    23. She invented Quangos
    24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
    25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
    26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
    27. The Al Yamamah contract
    28. She opposed the indictment of Chile’s General Pinochet
    29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
    30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
    31. BSE
    32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
    33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
    34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
    35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
    36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
    37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain – £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros – £1 billion
    38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
    39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
    40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
    41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
    42. 21.9% inflation
    43. Covered up the Hillsborough disaster to protect the police. –TRAP: The Real Art of Protest

  24. Another Fine Mess

    Fake apprenticeships – crackdown planned
    Young people are being lured into fake apprenticeships, only to find out later they are unqualified, say businesses and bona fide training providers.
    These schemes can leave students out of work, according to responses to a consultation on plans to give apprenticeships legal protection.
    A planned government crackdown will include powers to prosecute trainers who misuse the term “apprenticeship”.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34313934

    Yeah, right.

  25. I would Say that any such Behaviour if it is True is Obscene Disgusting
    and anyone that could do that would be UnFit to be Prime Minister of
    this Country and I Sincerely Hope that it is Not the Case

    Netherless I Believe the Resignation of David Cameron as Prime
    Minister is in Order due to the Social Damage that Con Dem Policies
    have Inflicted upon this Country and the Obscene Amount of
    Human Suffering

    GEOFF REYNOLDS | September 21, 2015 at 11:50 am | Reply

    If Cameron wants to fuck a dead pigs head, it’s entirely up to him?

    Who am i to say if it is unnatural or not?

    All i can say, is that it seems completely in tune with murdering disabled and lying to parliament……….

    Many have said that the dead pig was later found fit for work by a MAXIMUS bedpan washer, but who am i to dispel these rumours?

  26. Without Political Freedom of Speech the Path is Open to Political
    Totalitarianism like Nazi Germany for One Example

    So Called ” Extremist Disruption Orders ” Need to be Opposed
    and Stopped

    Better a British 1st Amendment for Political Freedom of Speech

  27. Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    Coroner’s ‘ground-breaking’ verdict: Suicide was ‘triggered’ by ‘fit for work’ test

    DNS – 18th Sep 2015

    A coroner has demanded that the government takes action to prevent future deaths of disability benefit claimants, after concluding in a “ground-breaking” inquest verdict that a disabled man killed himself as a direct result of being found “fit for work”.

    It is believed to be the first time that a coroner has blamed the work capability assessment (WCA) process for directly causing the death of a claimant.

    Disabled activists believe it could prove a huge breakthrough in the fight against the government’s welfare reforms, and the battle to scrap the loathed fitness-for-work test and replace it with a more humane and less dangerous assessment.

    In a report sent to the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), the senior coroner for inner north London, Mary Hassell, said “the trigger” for the suicide was the man being found fit for work by the department.

    Responding to her concerns, in a document marked “OFFICIAL – SENSITIVE”, DWP claimed that its policy on how to respond to such cases “regrettably was not followed in this case”.

    Read More:
    http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/coroners-ground-breaking-verdict-suicide-was-triggered-by-fit-for-work-test/

    • Stepping Razor – This is really good news – it could open up action being taken against the DWP.
      Incidentally, would it not be a good idea also if these so called ‘Health Care Professionals’ could be threatened with legal action also?
      After all, these are an integral cog in the system!

  28. OT: Apprenticeships

    See for some news on Apprenticeships.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34313934
    “Fake apprenticeships – crackdown planned”

    How will this play out in practice for the government I wonder if it comes to pass? [something I expect NOT to happen – it would blow a hole in the current free ride…. unless Business just realized that the people they’ve been taking for a ride are their future prospective customer who might go elsewhere…]

  29. Liam.Gallagher..not

    We stuck with the dirty cunt Tories and IDS for another 4 plus years Shall we all keep ranting on here for another 4 plus years..it’s done fuck all for the last five…sorry just my 2 pence worth

  30. Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    The Apprenticeships gained by the government programme

    Suicide.
    Genocide
    Death Traps
    How To Build A Hanging Tree
    Confidence Tricks
    Propaganda

    All these can be found at your local job centre.

  31. Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    By signing the ESA50 you have given up disability, in society & in life. You have signed yourself off from being disabled & no where in society can prove you are disabled because you have signed away your disability. There are other forms that can filled out instead of the ESA50 so no threats DWP. By signed the ESA50 you have given up all rights of being disabled officially. Officially you are not disabled & ready for work.

    I am staying disabled.

  32. Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    How Do You Stay Disabled !!!!
    How Do You Become Able? By signing the ESA50 bogus form [questionnaire]

  33. Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    To be unemployable does not mean one is disabled.

  34. Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    How is genocide of disabled people political. The Anti Genocide policy. Politics has no meaning while disabled people are getting killed off by politics.

  35. Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    A Migrant Is Not Just For Christmas. David “Puppy” Cameron.

  36. Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    SIZZLA – LOVING & UPRIGHT (BOBO SPICE RIDDIM)

  37. The problem with any Government is that their children are safe from life that our Children have to be part of . If the will is there no one needs to be unemployed if they only thought about it. Many companies could be paid to take the ‘fit’ unemployed and train them up and giving them a proper wage ( treat as if they are employed as they will be) People have to be given the choice what training they do. When you consider this Government has spent nearly One Billion on private companies to get people into ‘slave’ work and the majority are not being trained so they go round and round achieving nothing. It just needs a different way of thinking to help the unemployed or even people who are working but needs retraining in something else to keep fresh. Work should be an enjoyment and training should be available to all at little cost to you, the employer should pay for it and get the monies back from the Government . The only worry now is the birth of robots that seem to be almost getting human without the emotions .
    Mind you with this Government i think the robots are already here … Thought i heard a squeak!

  38. Can the Jobcentre force JSA claimants to work three days a week laying a footpath/walkway at a sheltered housing complex? Because this is what I encountered today. There were about a dozen of them. I recognised one of them and asked him what he what he was doing. He told me he had been told by the Jobcentre that he and the rest of them had to do this. I was astounded. I thought only the pimps (providers) could dole out the slave labour placements.

    Any comments, anyone.

    • jj joop – I remember a while back someone on here had been “volunteered” by his jcp advisor for “work experience” in a local pub, so nothing surprises me. Obviously the “charity”/council which runs the actual sheltered housing complex is happy to support this type of “volunteering”. Our council certainly are.

  39. I agree with you Johnny, they make you more unemployable, I’m a prime example, at least I can say I educated my self in the art of writing, don’t know what value it has in the employment market, but at least I have skilled myself. My advice to everyone here who is on or will have to go on in the future, is listen to there advice then the minute you leave the Jobcentre forget it all completely, otherwise your head will be filled with so much rubbish.

  40. Unpaid Work Schemes Are De-Skilling A Generation And Perhaps That Is The Intention – which is keeping the poor – poor.

  41. 2014 “Noam Chomsky”: Why you can not have a Capitalist Democracy!

  42. ‘Parody Band ‘The Iain Duncan Smiths’ Take On #PigGate With ‘Pig Mouth Strikes Again’ (Feat. David Cameron)’

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/09/21/david-cameron-pig-piggate-ashcroft_n_8171368.html

    ‘Sweetness, sweetness by now I guess you probably will have read
    That I put my Percy in a pig’s head
    Sweetness, sweetness, I was so young and easily misled
    So I’m afraid it’s true what Ashcroft said
    And now I know just how that pig felt, now I know just how that pig felt
    When I rocked up and put my pisser in its kisser and went at it full pelt’

  43. Noam Chomsky keeping the poor frightened.

  44. Let’s keep piling the pressure onto the murderous Iain Duncan Smith.
    There are currently at least 2 petitions worth signing:

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104436
    https://www.change.org/p/metropolitan-police-cps-investigate-the-manslaughter-of-benefit-claimants

  45. overburdenddonkey

    sorry to hear the news about losing your home jv…

  46. Does anyone have any info ’bout a group called “FEEDING BRITIAN’S FUTURE ? It appears to be some kind of catering/hospitality employability group running seminars in schools and various places, etc.

    • GK its Gov backed Hogwash -“Feed the masses, it’s got nothing to do with us that they’re staving in the first place”

      Simple Google search brought up a Ministerial Speech from 2013, plus its backed by food industry companies, though I have never heard of this intuitive, so how successful could it have been?

      • Some Jobcenters are sending dudes off to some of their “talks” at the moment .(One of which is due at Celtic Park in Glasgow…….And that won’t be a cheap venue.)
        I fail to see how they are going to help in anyway whatsoever…..and we are left wondering how much Govt funding these guys are getting. We wonder how many are tory backers as well.

  47. Stepping Razor Sound Plate System

    Cassetteboy vs David Cameron – Gettin’ Piggy With It

  48. Excellent blog, Johnny Void. I just feel depressed about the subject. All this wage-shirking & low-wage abuse caused by corporate scroungers. All this benefit-shaming & taxshyness of the rich, or just from well-off classes…

    But mostly, how do we stop the worst wealth-pertrators from committing any further economic violence against us all? Those for whom enslaving people (& actual children) in the 3rd world through poverty wages, dangerous & endless work is all part of a business plan?

    What strikes me most is how greed apologist the mainstream media has become. How the blame for poverty wages & unpaid labour is now placed onto its victims – the low-incomers & benefit claimants. What’s worse, we are made invisible by same greed enabling outlets which only write about us in contexts of poverty or benefits. It’s as if we didn’t exist other than as problems. As if our work, dreams, ambitions & efforts didn’t matter.

    ~ Fashion articles feature financially backed designers & CEOs. Not the textile workers, sewing machinists or seamstresses making their own clothes.

    ~ Film articles feature middle to upper-class offspring as new rising actors. Not the unpaid runners or people on the dole making their own videos.

    ~ Dance & Music… Are there any dancers or musicians on benefits or in low paid work left? Oh, wait. There was 1 article of a single mum to an X Factor contestant getting jailed for “benefit scrounging”. Her crime? She was collecting enough benefits to pay for her kids’ dance & singing lessons. A privilege that middle & upper-class mums afford without punishments.

    The hostility against us when we invest into our own, or our children’s time the way the middle or upper-classes do – has to end. The question is how.

  49. Unless you are some crony of some political party or have the right postal code you will be denied a decent wage or occupation, whether you have the right qualifications or not.

    So it matters not one jot what party you vote for it is the political and economic system that needs changing, nobody can lord it over you if all are brought down to one level.

  50. “TORIES TRY TO FUCK THE POWERS OF THE RSPCA IN ORDER TO BRING BACK FOX HUNTING”

    ……….On this mornings BBC NEWS, the governments propaganda media arm, a prominent member of the Consevatives and also chairman of EFRA, NEIL PARISH, is seeking a review into the powers of the RSPCA………

    This all seems fine until you investigate why anybody would wish to challenge the good work done to bring animal abusers to justice.

    Here are a few newspaper quotes regarding PARISH:

    “Tory backbenchers Neil Parish, MP for Tiverton and Honiton in Devon, and Simon Hart, former Countryside Alliance chief executive, are pushing for the Tories to include a hunting pledge in their manifesto amid fears that Westcountry MP Neil Parish is leading calls for a technical amendment to the Hunting Act to allow farmers to deploy a full pack of hounds, instead of just two, to flush foxes attacking their flocks.

    While this would fall short of a full repeal of the legislation, Mr Parish – who serves on the rural affairs select committee of MPs – says the move would “deliver something for country sports which we haven’t delivered up until now”.

    But Mr Parish said: “I would want to repeal the hunting act. “I feel it was a bad law that was produced. The whole thing is a complete mess.”

    Westcountry MP Neil Parish is leading calls for a technical amendment to the Hunting Act to allow farmers to deploy a full pack of hounds, instead of just two, to flush foxes attacking their flocks.

    While this would fall short of a full repeal of the legislation, Mr Parish – who serves on the rural affairs select committee of MPs – says the move would “deliver something for country sports which we haven’t delivered up until now”.

    …………………………”SHOULDN’T THE RSPCA BE LOOKING INTO ALLEGATIONS THAT A PIGS HEAD WAS ATTACKED BY AN IMBECILES DICK?”

  51. This video is tons better than the one above.

    and

    jv sorry about your home. you’re welcome to stay until you find somewhere else.

  52. “UK GOVERNMENT AGE DISCRIMINATION WHEN CLAIMING MOBILITY”

    ………….Why should older disabled people be robbed of the chance to claim mobility?

    Surely, their needs are more worthier than that of the younger claimants?

    Why is it, that somebody who has become disabled under the age of
    65 and is on DLA has the ability to continue getting the Mobilty
    component over the age of 65. On this, they have no worries about
    insurance, maintenance of their vehicle, road fund licence or
    anything else in relation to the vehicle.

    Somebody who has become disabled over the age of 65 does not have
    the opportunity to get these benefits which would help people get
    out when they want to go somewhere, I know it may only be down to
    the shops but maybe an hospital appointment or picking up their
    prescriptions. Its as if when somebody reaches the age of 65 that
    they are expected to be stuck indoors all the time.

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/mobility_when_claiming_attendanc#comment-63174

    …………..Again, the government are being seen to discriminate on an age basis.

    • Nobody need a car 24/7 just to attend hospital appointments. People who OWN use it EVERY DAY to travel to WORK. If you just need a car for a short local journey the most appropriate option is private hire, and if you need a car for a day or two it would be best just to rent one. A car parked doing nothing is just a waste of a good resource.

      Of course with these ‘motability’ cars it is probably the case that family/friends get use of the car; the very same family/friends that ‘encourage’ the disabled person the get the ‘motabiity’ car in the first place…😉

    • That’s what old folk do though – just sit in front of the TV all day. I went round to visit me gran at 8 o’clock one evening. She was sat in front of the TV watching Eastenders. I said: “Gran, how long you been sat in that chair?”, “Since 8 o’clock this morning”. “OK, gran, I will go and make you a cup of tea. It will save you leaving your chair.” What’s it with old people sat in a chair in front of the TV all day?

  53. Posted this before. Noam Chomsky V Ayn Rand on Social Security. The rich want it all.

  54. “HOW MANY CLAIMANTS HAVE GIVEN THE DWP PERMISSION TO USE AN OUTSIDE CONTRACTOR TO RECORD YOU WHILE IN THEIR JOBCENTRES?”

    peter left an annotation (21 September 2015)

    Hello Paul,
    Re: CCTV, I am aware that this is held for only 7 days. The data controller for CCTV is not DWP and is a different company responsible for their building management.

    I requested CCTV of myself having a complete mental breakdown at a Job Centre. I am a grown man and this was humiliating and embarrassing. I wanted the CCTV as part of my evidence as to why I should not be claiming JSA.

    If you want a copy of CCTV, you need to act fast and contact their building management.

    Am writing this here for you because by the time DWP answer, the CCTV copy you want will probably have been erased as I was told it is only held for 7 days.

    “HAVE YOU GIVEN YOUR CONSENT?”

    “I VERY MUCH DOUBT IT”

    “THE DWP ARE BREAKING THE LAW ONCE AGAIN”

  55. From: Andy Mitchell

    21 September 2015

    Dear Department for Work and Pensions,

    How many Prevention of Future Deaths reports have you received
    since 2008? Please break this down by month and year, providing
    further details of the coroner’s concerns and what action the
    department took in response to each report.

    Regards

    Andy Mitchell

    Link to this

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/how_many_prevention_of_future_de#incoming-709968

  56. Foxes Deserve Not to Suffer at the Hands of Arrogant Toffs

    Down with the Class System of Slavery and Slavery Fullstop

    GEOFF REYNOLDS | September 22, 2015 at 10:33 am | Reply

    “TORIES TRY TO FUCK THE POWERS OF THE RSPCA IN ORDER TO BRING BACK FOX HUNTING”

    ……….On this mornings BBC NEWS, the governments propaganda media arm, a prominent member of the Consevatives and also chairman of EFRA, NEIL PARISH, is seeking a review into the powers of the RSPCA………

    This all seems fine until you investigate why anybody would wish to challenge the good work done to bring animal abusers to justice.

    Here are a few newspaper quotes regarding PARISH:

    “Tory backbenchers Neil Parish, MP for Tiverton and Honiton in Devon, and Simon Hart, former Countryside Alliance chief executive, are pushing for the Tories to include a hunting pledge in their manifesto amid fears that Westcountry MP Neil Parish is leading calls for a technical amendment to the Hunting Act to allow farmers to deploy a full pack of hounds, instead of just two, to flush foxes attacking their flocks.

    While this would fall short of a full repeal of the legislation, Mr Parish – who serves on the rural affairs select committee of MPs – says the move would “deliver something for country sports which we haven’t delivered up until now”.

    But Mr Parish said: “I would want to repeal the hunting act. “I feel it was a bad law that was produced. The whole thing is a complete mess.”

    Westcountry MP Neil Parish is leading calls for a technical amendment to the Hunting Act to allow farmers to deploy a full pack of hounds, instead of just two, to flush foxes attacking their flocks.

    While this would fall short of a full repeal of the legislation, Mr Parish – who serves on the rural affairs select committee of MPs – says the move would “deliver something for country sports which we haven’t delivered up until now”.

    …………………………”SHOULDN’T THE RSPCA BE LOOKING INTO ALLEGATIONS THAT A PIGS HEAD WAS ATTACKED BY AN IMBECILES DICK?”

  57. update to the above news.

    Daughter of depressed man who took his own life after being declared ‘fit for work’ says DWP system needs an overhaul.

    Michael O’Sullivan took his own life two years ago, but the circumstances of his death are only now casting an uncomfortable shadow on the Government’s controversial “work capability assessment” process.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2015-09-21/daughter-of-man-who-took-his-own-life-after-being-declared-fit-for-work-says-he-had-no-chance/

  58. Just bought 2 small cups of coffee and 2 small cookies in Costa Fortune. £20 fucking knicker!! Fucking outrageous! The UK is like fucking Norwegian prices but without Norwegian wages to match: Norwegian prices and third-world fucking wages. Of course you just swipe one of those fucking ‘contactless’ cards and don’t realise how much you are being ripped off. Imagine handing over a 20 knicker note for a couple of cups of coffee and a couple of cookies!!

    • That’s pretty *cheap* compared to London prices – you must be up in some northern town😉 Anyway, those ‘contactless’ cards were designed with rip-off places like coffee shops in mind. Same with ‘chip ‘n’ pin’; when you don’t handle actual physical cash it is so much easier to rip you off.

      • It even says in the leaflet that comes with them: “so much more convenient when you want to grab a quick coffee”. Maybe these rip-off places would be embarrassed to take a wad of notes of someone for a thimble-full of instant coffee and a custard cream!

      • They come with a daily limit of £50 for coffee!

  59. The Mail’s (Lord Ashcroft/Isabelle Oakeshott’s) articles about ‘pig-headed’ Camoron (will he get the ‘chop’ for using his chopper’!) are well worth a read. I have managed to read a couple of them during my tea break.
    Hopefully more trouble in store for this arrogant bastard of a ‘Prime Minister’. Bacon is off of the menu for Camoron from now on, as, if he puts it in his mouth – he will just want to remorselessly gag!
    When he looks back at the night, he remembers the ‘ecstacy’ of his cumming, And now, all that is left is to sleep with the old sow! (I won’t mention Rebecca Brokes)
    Poor Mr Piggy – maybe he snorted a few lines that night!
    Any reference to anyone living, or dead, is entirely coincidental!

  60. typo If Scotland remains part of the EU (not) UK Parliament …………

  61. There seems to be more whisky drinking, coffee slurping, right wing wankers on here than those that really need to protest.

  62. I have already explained further up posts that while you are seeking independence and have now got your own parliament, Scotland seems to be getting favourable treatment regarding healthcare, housing, schooling etc.

    If you stay in eu after independence then your voting could have a detrimental effect on the rest of the uk depending on which way and what you vote for.

    • That’s because the Scottish Parliament decided they wanted to go their own way as regards healthcare, education and housing. Just as in Wales we have free prescriptions, (yes, even ‘wealthy’ people get free scripts here) and no PFI or endless reorganisation). It’s called democracy Guy, (in as much as it can be referred to as such) where people decide their own priorities. If you don’t like what is happening where you are, do something about it, rather than whinging about places where people have come together and decided to do things differently that benefits ordinary people.

      You could also consider moving to another place… Rockall sound like a likely place🙂

      • Sib

        Where did Scotland and Wales get their money from to build their new monoliths, not through good housekeeping that is for sure, it is through favourable funding.
        The north east has got the highest council taxes and the lowest funding from central government for public services.

        We don’t crawl and do deals with central government, that is why we have been sidelined by every political party that has had either a Scottish, welsh or southern leader in power.

        You do stick together with your own clans and shit on everyone else the evidence is there for all to see.
        I hope you get independence too and your world collapses around you, then we can say that you opted to live in FUCKALL.

        • Okay Guy, let me spell it out. Both Scotland and Wales are part of the UK due to the imperialism of the English ruling classes. I can’t say much about Scottish history as I don’t know a whole lot about it, but I’m sure there are some people on here who could attempt to enlighten you far better than I.

          As far as Wales is concerned, Welsh workers actually do produce things that are traded internationally and contribute towards the UK economy, I don’t know by how much, as figures, perhaps deliberately, are hard to come by. Welsh workers also pay taxes, and whilst we are told that there is a shortfall in what it costs to run Wales is less that what is received in taxes from Welsh workers may not actually be true, as many workers in Wales are employed by companies that have their headquarters in England, and therefore their workers, wherever they work in the UK, pay their taxes in England. There is also the huge exports of things like energy and water that Wales exports to the rest of the UK, more than half of the electricity generated in Wales is exported, and huge amounts of water are everyday exported at a lot lower a cost than I pay for my water. I think it likely that both Wales and Scotland about pay their way in real terms, but of course it wouldn’t fit the unionist agendas of the Tories, Labour or LibDems to admit to anything like that.

          You are so obviously a very bitter person, reacting in the way that you do when someone dares to challenge you and ask you to back up your claims.

          Can you name where the Welsh or Scottish peoples have crawled or done deals with the UK government? And just where is the evidence that everyone can see that the ‘clans’ stick together and defecate on all others? There have never been clans in modern Wales, and in Scotland they don’t actually mean that much in the early 21st Century. Suggest you name a few of those clans

          And what about the 2004 devolution referendum that was held in your neck of the woods? The one that was rejected by 77.9% of a 49% turnout?

          • overburdenddonkey

            sib
            basically wales was annexed by england and england and scotland came to an ‘understanding’… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707

            • Yeah, I know that OBD, there were two Acts of Union, one in 1535 and again in 1542. However, after that Wales was largely left to it’s own devices until the mid 18th Century when Wales became the first industrialised nation in the world.

              But yes, the wording of the Acts is annexation, and not union, as well as ‘extirpation’ of the Welsh language. Ordinary Welsh people weren’t asked, any more than ordinary English people were asked, though the Welsh elite (largely Anglicised) certainly didn’t complain, as they were going to do very nicely out of the deal.

              One hopes that a future independent Scotland has learned the lesson of the Darien Scheme!

          • Sib

            You are the one that is denying your own historical past. Wales did break away from the NUM and start their own union, citing Scargill as the problem and reason for the north east pits closing – rubbish.
            They wanted to keep their pits open at the expense of ours largely because we were seen as the most militant.

            All you both talk about is the amount you are paying and receiving under the Barnet formula, of which PFI repayments take the larges share and I wonder which of you individuals have shares in these PFI companies that you are complaining about and which Brown the good housekeeper got us into.

            On the map of the British Isles does it look like we are separate countries, of course not and like I said I couldn’t care less if you both go indy, we couldn’t get any worse off.
            Living closer to Scotland I thought we were more Scottish than Welsh or Londoners, but the way you are wanting to split the union perhaps the borders should remain intact, all Scotland is arguing about is how much they are contributing and how much they are getting back, if that is not looking out for yourselves I don’t know what is.

            The devil to you is in rhetoric and detail, the devil to me is in yourselves.

            • Are you a Troll Guy? I back up all my arguments, with facts and where relevant, the interpretations of others, so that people on here, and also hopefully you also can see that I am not alone in holding the viewpoint that I do. When, where and how did the Welsh miners break away from the NUM? I can find no evidence of your assertion, so kindly put up, or shut up.

              Most of the Welsh pits owned by the NCB were closed by 1990, so your argument that the South Wales miners wanted to keep their pits open is just absurd. That is a fact, you just made up what you claim about the NUM South Wales Area, there was no attempt to break away, and indeed, if you go to the NUM website contact page you will see that they still have two contacts in the South Wales area:

              http://www.num.org.uk/page/Contacts

              And let me put you straight, I, myself, and Overburdenddonkey are not in the position where all we talk about is the Barnett Formula or PFI etc (in fact in Wales we are relatively lightly burdened by the PFI fraud, as it was strictly controlled in how it was used:

              http://www.bevanfoundation.org/commentary/how-wales-escaped-the-pfi-legacy/

              We talk about a lot of other things too, and we don’t feel the need to attack, insult, slur or smear those who disagree with us. I don’t and I know ODB doesn’t seek the approval of others, or agreement, but we do expect, and are entitled to respect, just as we respect others. On the other hand, you expect people to agree with you; anyone having the temerity to disagree with you, or ask you to provide facts, or back up your insinuations is subjected to a barrage of abuse. Both of us also offer constructive suggestions as to a way forward, of getting from point A, (where we are now) to point B. OBD and I favour a world where there is free movement, where the nation-state is an anachronism (but not the idea of nation), where there is peace and where every one has a place to live, food to eat, and a purpose in life. But it has to start somewhere, and it also has to start where people are at. You, on the other hand, come up with hare-brained notions that involve antediluvian, pie in the sky notions of synchronous world revolution… Dream on…

              You seem to want to slur and slander people who do not agree with you, or challenge you to back up your increasingly bizarre claims. I certainly don’t, and I’m pretty sure that ODB doesn’t have any shares in PFI schemes. We were fortunate in Wales that by the time PFI really got off the ground we had a Welsh Assembly Government that reeled it in, but anyway, there was a huge amount of hostility to the idea amongst ordinary people who-correctly saw it as the rip-off of the future generations that it is. That’s the kind of scepticism you tend to get when for years, and years and years you have been subjected to the whims of rule by quango, hugely expensive, and completely undemocratic.

              I have hardly mentioned independence for Wales, and OBD has been at pains to point out why he personally supports the idea: not because he believes it’s automatically a great idea, come what may, but simply because he sees no way forward for the people of Scotland under the present system. I feel similarly about Wales, but I don’t think for a minute that independence would be the end of the story, just that dealing with the challenges ahead will be that much easier to deal with closer to home, and by not having to deal with what is still essentially an imperialist supra-national structure.

              What is stopping North East England, perhaps calling itself Northumbria, making it’s own bid for devolution, or even independence? It certainly has a distinct identity and culture that is possibly the most distinct of all the English regions. I hear these whines from some English people, but they just sound like sour grapes. I hear it from those English people who live just over the border in England who send their children to school in Wales, and then complain that their children have to learn Welsh – it’s quite simple, if you don’t want your kids to learn Welsh, don’t send them to school in Wales! Likewise we hear bitter complaints about Welsh residents receiving free prescription medicines (even rich people are entitled, fancy that!) from those who live just over the border in England, and so don’t qualify. Instead of whinging, wouldn’t they be better off lobbying to get free prescriptions in England? I’d like to live in a society that’s more like Scandinavia, but do I whinge about what the people there have? No, I don’t. I’ll admit, I am a little envious, but that just makes me want to try and make Wales a little more like Scandinavia… We have a hell of a long way to go!!

              So no Guy, it’s not rhetoric either, sure, I argue my case, but I also include facts, back up my arguments with searchable references – and I don’t insult people unless severely provoked.

              • You can find no evidence, probably because it has been erased from history, I actually lived through it and KNOW THE FACTS.

        • What happened to the comment that told me I could live in ‘Rockall’?
          Hence my reply that they will end up living on FUCKALL if they stay in Europe.

  63. If Scotland already has indy why do you want another vote on becoming independent?

    • Not sure what you mean by this. Scotland is not Independent at this moment in time. There is a Parliament in Edinburgh, but it is more a kind of provincial or State Capitol, USA style if you like. But those State have much more power, whereas Edinburgh has limited powers. German Lander governments have more power. The money is all sent up from London, and the Scottish Govt decides how best to use it. Scotland sends down over 50 plus and more billions in revenues to London, and is lucky to get half back. Meanwhile, all Social Security , etc is governed by the New Nazis Regime at Westminster (now we can also call them the Hog Party – Hoggies ) – but Nazis were always a strange lot !!!
      So we still have benefits sanctions and the like. If we had Indy, we would not have had to send our MPs to Westminster.
      I don’t know where you get some of your info from, but regards Scotland, it is a bit off tune with how it really is.
      As to Europe, we have next to no influence, due to the attitude of the UK Regime. When Independent, then we can see how it works for or against us.
      An example of London does things, is millions set aside for Scottish farmers by EU was kept by Westminster. That is not acceptable, and it makes being part of EU look unhelpful….but it is Westminster, be it Hog party or Labour that make it unhelpful.
      You could do a bit ore research into Scottish affairs. You would be surprised at the reality of things. London media are definitely not helpful there.

      • I look at the country as a whole as it should be perceived. If the Scottish want to break away that is up to them, you are right there has been misinformation about everywhere in the UK propaganda is rife, but don’t lecture me about government structures, I know exactly how governments are structured and I know how corrupt they are too.
        We had 2 Scottish prime ministers Blair and Brown and they did sweet FA for us in the North East, perhaps you would care to do some research on our history, because I am fed up to the back teeth of Scottish nationalism, it is as bad as UKIP.
        Scotland is lucky in that it has it’s own natural resources and can make a stab at independence, but perhaps you might spare a thought for others in the uk who HAVE NOT SAT BACK AND DONE NOTHING as OBD and SEB would have people believe, but have nothing now in the way of leverage despite being the hub of heavy industry and serving the rest of the country at one time, where all of the mines, muck and chemical industries not to mention the nuclear industry thought they would plonk themselves. We are like a bloody tinderbox around here.
        We all know the biggest hogs are in London but the Queen likes to hog it in Balmoral quite a bit too.
        Thatcher wanted to sell off council housing stock because she didn’t want central government to renovate where possible, she then refused to let local councils spend the receipts from selling off social housing to build more.
        We only have private investment now, building on what was social housing land homes to buy, not rent, at a time when nobody can afford to live never mind invest in mortgages.
        I hope the whole of the country has a wall street type crash because when you have got nothing then you have got nothing to lose.
        Rebuilding would be a better option and start producing goods that are made to last instead of electrical goods that fall apart after a year and the makers want you to insure on top of their shoddy goods, bread that is stale when you buy it etc., Capitalism is DEAD.

        • PS argue with your fellow man OBD that Scotland is not yet indy he says it is.

        • overburdenddonkey

          GUY
          HAVE NOT SAT BACK AND DONE NOTHING as OBD and SEB would have people believe..RUBBISH, neither of us have slighted you…but you have said some outrageous things to us and about us…
          the barnet formula is based per head of uk and ni pop….scotland pays out of that 10% for uk and ni infrastructure ie hs2 £10bn X rail 10% of that, trident 10% etc etc, and scotland gets no benefit…most money of england’s barnet equivalence is spent in the south of england, so if you’re looking for culprits, you’re looking the wrong way…
          the scotgov has managed it’s budget very well, despite a £200m/yr PFI millstone on the scotnhs…many SG projects come in under budget….

        • Guy…..No one is “lecturing” you. But simply pointing some things out for you. That is rather different!
          Scotland is not part of your country….Your country is England. True…Scotland is run from Westminster, with much collaboration from other Scots who want to get a place at the “top Table” at UN or where ever. What’s good for the plebs back home means nothing to these traitors. And that is what I call them, for such is what they are.
          Brown was of that lot, also Alistair Darling, who now has what he wanted for a very long time, namely his 300 a day in the big House next door with the red benches. where he can now sit near to the fire raiser Mr Micky Watson, who went to jail for setting hotel curtains afire in 2005, and that was while both a Glasgow MSP ,and a member of the fake “Lords”.
          Blair, was born in Scotland and spent a short amount of time there, then Australia, and while he was educated at a private school in Edinburgh for time, ( we wonder how much of Scottish anything they ever got taught), his later school years was at Durham Cathedral. His entire adult life has been in the London area. He also doesn’t give a damn ’bout Scotland. He was an MP for a North of England constituency….and we see how much he done there. He didn’t give a damn for those ppl either.
          Council House sales was also implemented in Scotland, and with same results. However, here maybe a big difference. Many of the councils still had huge stocks of council houses, and while the better areas tended to get sold off, the councils were still intent on replacing them. There has always been a large number of folks who simply couldn’t and /or didn’t want to buy their houses. Public housing here has always been a major part of society, in a way that is not seen across much of England. The councils there have to take some of the blame for that, but I accept that London control was greater there, and policies were more enforced in a way that wasn’t acceptable in Scotland.
          As for industry, we in Scotland are well aware of the destruction of the North East of England. It happened in the Central belt of Scotland, with those same industries. Coal mines, steel mills, shipyards, railroad works, etc. And hundreds of thousands of jobs were wiped out in a matter of a few years. The Brown/Blair Labour party done next to nothing to redress any of that. Neither here in Scotland, or in England.
          Corbyn is right to want to renationalize the rail system, but John Prescott told a Labour conference that “Labour would renationalize the railways”.
          They had almost 15 years, and still we wait, while Prescott gets his 300 a day as well.
          Much of the problem in North England is more down to Labour’s failure to do anything useful for the ppl there. That is not Scotland’s fault.
          As for “all Nationalism being the same be it UKIP or SNP” .
          As I say….you don’t really understand Scottish politics if you think SNP is anything akin to UKIP. The desire for Scottish Independence is a different thing.
          Anyway…I’ll leave it at that.

          • Gordon Keane

            You are the first person on here that has given any recognition let alone sympathy for the plight of the North East.
            Newcastle, being a city is, the only area that appears to be thriving in so much that it has 6 to 8 hospitals, tv studios, university and huge shopping malls, but most are serviced by credit than cash. Our town which has a third of their population has not one hospital left, nor have the collieries they have to travel to Sunderland or Teeside like us.

            Teeside seems to be nothing but a municipal edifice, taking a large share of north east funding to pay the amount of pen pushers employed there.

            Blair and Brown have a lot to answer for, they started New deal, introduced tuition fees, started sanctioning people to name just a few of
            the detrimental measures he piled on us in the North East and the Tories don’t seem to know we exist, other than they want our vote.

            I can understand why some of our constituents were lured by UKIP, they are fed up of the two party state or the crap coalition we had from Clegg.

            People only want to nationalize the rail system because Londoners now want cheap fares and more rolling stock which they think they will get if they are re-nationalized.

            The private sector and new labour with it’s tory pretentions, pandering to the nouveau riche who profited from labour’s housing boom and privatization of the utilities, now want to nationalize it, so the state can pay for any new investment now that the shareholders have had their perks from privatization, that is until the whole thing starts again and the tories go private again.

            If what I proposed seems ludicrous to some it could never turn out like the madness and farce of jumping backwards and forwards from party to party and ideology to ideology that is the two party state.

            • Guy, I’m in tears… Most of us know that things aren’t all rosy in the North East. It’s probably true to say that most in the UK are hardly aware of the North East in general and places like Newcastle, unless they’ve seen Get Carter, but the general economic situation you describe isn’t unique, by a long way. There are many places in Wales, and the rest of the UK, and obviously also Scotland, where the push for Indy probably has more to do with exactly the kind of conditions you describe, but of course existing in Scotland.

              It’s taken a long time for Scotland to drift towards Indy, and I’m sure for many brought up on internationalism and socialism it is and was a hard conclusion to make that the only hope they have of getting the kind of society they want is to do it themselves, having come to the slow realisation that achieving those ends through the Union is a futile hope. But, thankfully, it’s not a ‘pull up the drawbridge, we’re all xenophobic now’ kind of nationalism that is mainstream in either Scotland or Wales, but the kind of nationalism based on the notion of respecting others because we respect ourselves, and will do all we are able to help anyone, wherever they are, to help themselves.

              Again you seem to be coming out with some bizarre notions. Many people, right across the political spectrum want to see the railways renationalised, even a majority of Tories and UKIP want that. So it’s not just Londoners wanting cheaper fares – we all want that. In fact, it seems that the railways will be nationalised in some form in Wales in 2018 when the franchise comes up for renewal.

              We don’t have two ideologies, (well, we might have the start of a new ideology from the Brit/English Left under Corbyn, we’ll have to wait and see) or even really a two party system in place yet, but as with my caveat, it could be on the way.

              • overburdenddonkey

                sib
                a tiny slither, a shaft of light, an opening, to something better, more community/socialist centered, is what most see…we put massive efforts into keeping this gap open, in place, and yes we don’t expect overnight, instant change…we are however very keen to get on with it…
                we know we’ve won, it’s now a matter of WM admitting it, and getting the paperwork done…

                • OBD

                  Indeed. I think all that is in there somewhere, but as you know, there is a lot of scepticism, and still a worrying tendency to see politicians as part of the change when too often they are part of the very problem we are up against. Sure, what’s happening in Scotland, and recently within the Labour Party is encouraging, but as we both know, it could all too easily go very sour. I hope that Scotland is soon independent, as at least it will be easier for the people to wrest power back should it indeed turn sour.

                  As for Wales, who knows? We do need change, just as everywhere else, but it’s my guess that Labour will remain in power, as we as yet have nothing remotely like the SNP here. Plaid Cymru claims to occupy the ground once occupied by the Labour Party, but isn’t really an effective or inspiring opposition with credibility. There is hope, but I am deeply cynical.

                  Unless Plaid Cymru shifts radically to the Left I see little chance of a change from usual. We in Wales have the unenvious privilege of being the only part of the UK with a Labour government… Hmmm (We also have 11 Tories, which is a more than 25% of the seats in Wales). It will be interesting to see what happens in the Assembly elections next May…

                  I may be emigrating to Scotland!

                • overburdenddonkey

                  sib
                  psst!..there’s a very quiet border crossing to the west of gretna…

                • sIb

                  there is a very quite border crossing to the west of Gretna……..
                  IT’S CALLED CHECKPOINT OBD.

        • overburdenddonkey

          SOME INFO ON BARNETT GUY
          http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-barnett-trap-and-the-expensive-lunch/
          more info get your facts straight…

          • That was kind of you OBD… Is Guy really concerned about facts though, or just trying to suggest a somewhat tortuous and incestuous relationships, (as well a lurid) we ‘Celts’ supposedly have that is purely a figment of his imagination?

  64. guy fawkes | September 23, 2015 at 12:17 pm | Reply

    I have replied to this but whoever has their finger on the buttons is playing silly beggars with the posts

  65. if Scotland becomes indy it will no longer be part of the uk but will stay in the EU, voting on issues that could benefit them over the UK as they are already doing now in the Scottish parliament. Our public services are cut to the bone, yet you seem able to increase yours in Scotland – where are your finances coming from and don’t tell me it’s a matter of where you choose to spend what central government allows each constituency.

  66. OK IF MODERATING OR NOT PRINTING POST IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN WIN AN ARGUMENT THEN YOU ARE ALREADY THE LOSER.

  67. JV I WILL SEE YOU TAKEN OFF THE SOCIAL MEDIA MARK MY WORDS.

  68. Obd

    Who are we gonna trade with, well there is China, the USA, India for starters, but if the news bulletins are to be believed we are all trading on debt, we are all living FREE, only some can get their hands on more of the free if they have savings or collateral to trade with, in our unequal society that has inequality in everything from incomes to sequious titles and land rights.

  69. When One Looks at Collaboration with the Nazi Regime in Nazi Germany
    and the Nazi Occupiers of France and those who are Oblivious to the
    Suffering of the Plight of the Poor and Vulnerable in Con Dem Britain
    and Nazi Britain there is a Similarity in All are Examples of Evil and
    at Best Burying the Head in the Sand like an Ostrich instead of Having
    a Sense of Honour to Stand Up to Slavery

  70. The 26th of September 2015 AD Mark’s the 670th Anniversary of the Battle of Warns in 1345 AD.

    This was a Frisian Victory over the Forces of Holland.

    The Monument in Friesland Says in Frisian ” Better to be Dead than a Slave ”

    A Even Better Statement is Better to be Alive and Not be a Slave

  71. “De skilling a generation who will only be capable of shovelling tarmac on roads, hod carrying, trench digging etc.

    Those that are in favour of a basic income are probably home owners who want to use the imported skilled cheap labour to do up their houses on the cheap and are happy with the self employed and service industry culture that we have had thrust on us.

    These said homeowners will also get BI to buy the labour on the cheap also, not because they need the money but because they don’t want to spend their own savings doing it.” – guy fawkes

    Spot on.

    Not class war but a class civil war within the working class between the underclass and the aspirational working class.

    Stop bumming up the left in Scotland and the SNP they are of that aspirational working class life for the underclass in Scotland is as bad as it is for the underclass in the rUK.

    • overburdenddonkey

      no it’s pure speculation…automation will ‘workplace’ de-skill and d isenfranchise millions, in the EU and globally….
      imported skilled labour, will not qualify for European Unconditional Basic Income, will obvs be from outside the EU, therefore be in the EU illegally, and will be very keen to be here legally to get EUBI, together with their wages…and a change in the income tax system, infrastructure all already in place and therefore practical/easily doable….
      WCA et will be gone by default, many ngo’s will vanish, as will foodbanks,SS admin, wellbeing will be improved demands on health care reduced etc etc..
      it’s clearly guy’s scheme that turns people’s labour into wages to ‘buy’ ‘free’ goods with, labour effectively becoming currency…wages will be goods and other human needs, housing, rents, mortgages, food, transport, clothes, fuel, etc…trades people will be freely available on demand, under guy’s scheme..who gets the bosses jobs and the shit jobs therefore skills/class demarcation will still exist, how many hours/days will one have to work, who gets to knacker their bodies prematurely and who doesn’t…? goods holding cartels will develop to starve out so called ‘non-productive’s, deemed not to be pulling their weight..how will a countries infrastructure be administered, built, and maintained, without taxation…?
      all kinds of restrictions can be placed on transport of these goods, the nightmarish distribution logistics, or people moving closer or trying to move closer to shipping, production, and distributions areas, massive warehousing areas to keep up with staggering demands for goods et al, we’d otherwise never dream of having and/or needing, then environmental constraints, new laws and more layers of bureaucrats, ngo’s, shipping to and from ‘favoured’ areas restrictive practices and end up in a bigger poverty void than there is now…who works and who doesn’t….? where’s the massive list of goods et al that would be included/available in this new on demand consumer culture and how will it be restricted…will countries get goods et al supply demand quotas, you must supply this that or the other or else…
      imo it won’t be long before a bowl of lentil soup becomes a luxury for many, under guy’s scheme…there is no networked/joined up global manufacturing infrastructure…20m tonnes of iron ore for our steelworks by monday please..
      where’s my beamer/porsche/roller you bastards…!?
      people who don’t use their labour to produce goods will be more heavily state tested, scrutinized, and frowned (society tested) upon than they are now….

      • overburdenddonkey

        ps people already buy cheap skilled labour, so they don’t have to spend as much, it’s nothing new…

        • CLASS AND DEMARCATION WOULD NOT EXIST IN A FREE WORLD.
          DIFFERENT SKILLS WOULD DEPENDING ON PEOPLES ABILITY, THOSE THAT WERE CAPABLE OF ORGANISING BEST OBVIOUSLY WOULD BE PUT AT THE HEAD OF OPERATIONS BUT THEY WOULD NOT BE PAID FAVOURABLY – THEY WOULD HAVE NO STATURE OVER ANYONE ELSE. HUMAN NATURE SAYS WE WERE ALL BORN DIFFERENT SOME CAPABLE OF PERFORMING GREAT SKILLS, SOME HAPPY TO DO THE MUNDANE JOBS.
          NOBODY WAS GIVEN TALENTS TO BENEFIT THEMSELVES BUT TO CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY AS A WHOLE.

          • overburdenddonkey

            guy
            utter crap and i’ve already briefly explained why it won’t be free nor equitable nor globally sustainable nor functional…perhaps if i posted it in block capitals you’d have believe it…imv you’ve just created, theorized, abstracted, a global fascist global conglomeration beyond neoliberalism’s wildest dreams…10 hrs in the bosses chair or 10 hrs @ the coal face, which position would benefit, would it PAY me to have, me the most i wonder…
            and don’t try to tell me that people aren’t branded by birth/education now and won’t be in the future…

          • PIE IN THE SKY, GUY. IT IS NOT GOING TO WORK – HUMAN NATURE IS GOING TO TAKE OVER. EVERYONE IS GOING TO WANT A BIGGER SHARE OF THE PIE WHILST DOING NONE OF THE REAL WORK. YOU WANT TO END UP THIS OLD BOXER, THE CART-HORSE IN ANIMAL FARM?

            NONE OF THIS HAPPY-CLAPPY SHIT EVER WORKS. IT IS LIKE ‘CO-OPS’ – THEY DISINTEGRATE RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR VERY EYES. HUMAN NATURE ALWAYS WINS OUT!

            • ANIMAL FARM

              And what is human nature to you animal farm the 7 deadly sins, because it is certainly not my human nature.
              You underestimate the goodness (not arrogance as in Sib’s case) of most people, yes there are some that can’t get enough or want to keep hold of their wealth, that is why a decent society will never appeal to the likes of those that consider themselves to be on top and want to stay that way.

          • You ever seen the film Gattaca, guy? It is set in a ‘futuristic’ society where your genes dictate your pre-determined position in society. There are ‘valids’ and ‘invalids’.

            In the Interplanetary Space Exploration organisation we see that they have three stratas of employees: An upper echelon who get to fly the space-ships. A middle strata who who work the computers and do the number-crunching. And a bottom level composed of ‘invalids’ who do the cleaning.

            A very prescient film. They even have a fully-equipped gym for the staff years, way back when the gym was unheard of…

      • overburdenddonkey

        guy
        know the facts, fact the big problem’s started when our wages were paid into the banks…
        it’s when the rich started to claw back the wealth we gained through years of struggle, and used this new found supply of wealth against us..money is not the problem, it’s the way it is being used…as i’ve said/implied turning labour, resources, raw materials into products/commodities, these effectively become currency…
        your proposal as i and others have expressed/explained, will make things far worse than they are now…

        • Our problems started with inequality in incomes.
          All workers should be paid the same rate irrespective of their occupation or education.

  72. I really don’t want to be a customer of any business which is provided with free slave labour provided by the state. Is there a list of companies using free or underpaid labour anywhere? What is needed is a mass consumer boycott, after all we are all workers.

    • conartistocracy

      You are right, if they can get free labour,we should be getting free goods.

      According to OBD only goods are currency, labour isn’t apparently.

      • overburdenddonkey

        guy
        i said ‘it’s clearly guy’s scheme that turns people’s labour into wages to ‘buy’ ‘free’ goods with, labour effectively becoming currency…wages will be goods and other human needs, housing, rents, mortgages, food, transport, clothes, fuel, etc…you said i didn’t say that, but said..’According to OBD only goods are currency, labour isn’t apparently.’ you must have lost something in translation…?

        • Someone has to produce the goods and as things stand now with a world economy that is overproducing, if we just produced for need then nobody would have to work slave hours if we had a world non-economy.

          With robots replacing manpower and the capitalist still in ownership of the means of production, you will find yourself with neither work nor money, separating the poor from the rich, that is why BI cheerleaders want to put more money in their coffers to secure their own survival over the poor.

          • overburdenddonkey

            guy
            you haven’t even bothered to acknowledge my last post to you, in fact you barely acknowledge what anyone says to you…so there is no point in me responding further to you until you do…
            NB for others, when labour buys money, this is called a job or work..think about what this actually means in terms of the established contract with guarantors ie banks, govt and the people in terms of the value of money and taxation…and indeed what we buy with money…

            • All you can do is keep repeating, ” under my suggested system everything will be worse” without explaining how it could be worse.
              A free world would be much fairer than a costed one and would not cause chaos if operated as it is now, where there is enough produced for everyone, only some individuals want to own whole streets, towns, vehicles etc.as it is now and you seem to think that is fair without challenging those that are buying up villages and cities leaving a generation without homes, incomes or other commodities.

              It is you that is ignoring what I say because you cannot grasp the concept of a world without currency. Goods and services are not currency they are only a means of exchange which is not the same as currency, which puts a value on goods and labour according to what the capitalist makes it or distorts markets in order to increase the price of everything.

  73. The 29th and 30th of September Mark’s the Anniversary of the Babi Yar Massacre in 1941 AD.

    This was a Massacre of Tens of Thousands of Jews by Nazi Forces Sonderkommando 4a along with SS Police Battalions Backed up by Local Collaborators such as the Ukrainian Auxiliary Police

    Nazism just as it was Opposed during WW2 in the Ukraine must be Opposed in the Ukraine Now.

    Nazism Needs to be Opposed Fullstop

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s