Disagree With An Atos Decision? Then Starve Says DWP

atos-paralympic-protestThe DWP have laid a vicious benefit trap which will mean severely sick and disabled people will have no legal entitlement to benefit at all if they choose to appeal an assessment by the notorious IT company Atos.

Atos carry out the Work Capability Assessment (WCA), the test for the sickness and disability benefit Employment Support Allowance.  This crude computer based test has been use to strip benefits from hundreds of thousands of people by declaring them ‘fit for work’.

From October this year claimants will not be able to appeal against a ‘fit for work’ decision until they have first requested a ‘mandatory reconsideration’ by a DWP decision maker.  Only if the claimant disagrees with this decision will they be able to take an appeal to a benefit tribunal.  This process is likely to take months.

A recent response to an FOI request (PDF) confirms that claimants will not be able to claim ESA whilst waiting for this process to be completed.  The DWP say that claimants will instead have the: “option of applying for alternative benefits, such as Jobseekers Allowance, however they must meet the conditions of entitlement”.

One of the key conditions of entitlement for Jobseekers Allowance (JSA) – the benefit for those unemployed not unwell – is that the claimants is able to work.

This will mean that those appealing an ESA decision and claiming Jobseekers Allowance will be placed in a potentially fraudulent position.  They will be appealing an ESA decision based on the fact they do not believe themselves able to work, and will be claiming JSA based on a claim that they are able to work.

Already many claimants have been left in a benefit limbo, after Atos have declare them ‘fit for work’ but Jobcentre staff do not believe this to be the case.  All those on JSA must be actively seeking work, ready to start work immediately and can be sent onto four weeks workfare at any point in their claim.  For many of those who have had ESA stopped, this is an impossibility.  JSA claimants can have benefits stopped completely, for up to three years in some cases, if they fail to complete jobseeking activity or workfare.

After these changes to appeals come into effect, any claimants who disagrees with a decision made by Atos is likely to be forced to go without any benefit at all whilst ‘reconsiderations’ of their benefits take place.  These people are not just already amongst the poorest in the country, but those with cancer, MS or other life threatening conditions.

This appears to be a vindictive attempt to bring down the number of successful appeals against sickness benefit decisions which have been a continual embarrassment to both the current and the previous Labour governments.

The new message from the DWP seems to be appeal if you want, but don’t expect to eat or heat your homes whilst you are waiting.  The end of result of these changes will no doubt be less appeals.  The price of that will be more people dying at the hands of this callous process, which increasingly seems precision-engineered to drive sick and disabled people into destitution.

UPDATE  13/6/13:  Clarification, the DWP say that claimants ‘may’ be paid at the assessment rate once the ‘mandatory reconsideration’ has taken place if they pursue an appeal.  There is no time limit on how long this process can take and this depends on whether they are able to provide medical evidence to the Department.

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325 responses to “Disagree With An Atos Decision? Then Starve Says DWP

    • When you appeal a decision against atos you will be put back on ESA at a lower rate until the appeal is completed. People who are left with nothing don’t exist or have been misled by false articles…. Hardship allowance is in place for this very reason….

      • When you *appeal*, yes. But whereas you can currently appeal a decision immediately and through the DWP, during which a reconsideration may happen as the first step, from October the reconsideration will be separate from the appeal, and significantly, will not be timebound – and, as we now know, will not attract ESA at the assessment rate, or in fact at any rate at all, leaving people with no income for an unbounded time, and no way of knowing when that income will be restored. Moreover, whilst the DWP will currently forward your appeal to the tribunal as it launches its reconsideration, from October people will have to appeal directly to the tribunal. The number of people who won’t realise that will further decrease the number of people able to successfully appeal.

        So I suggest, mr smith, that you go back to your paymasters at the DWP and either ask them to be honest with you about the propaganda you’re failing to spread on their behalf, or inform them that you are an abject failure at astroturfing and they need to find someone better.

        Adieu, dickwad.

        • Sorry but u might got ur info wrong from the 28th of october 2013 if a decision maker decides u have failed to meet the requirements for benefits then u must request a mandatory reconsideration and if after that u are still unhappy u must appeal to the courts. In this instance no benefit will be paid until the court makes it decision. So if u where claiming ESA u will need to claim JSA until the courts hear and decide ur appeal. As for failing the medical assessement u need to make an appeal direct to the courts the DWP will pay u benefit at the reduced appeal rate as soon as ur appeal has been lodged and will pay until appeal has been heard. As for the time frame nothing as changed under old rules u made appeal of decision to the DWP which could toke up to three weeks to be processed. Under the new rules the appeal goes to the courts which take three week to lodge. once this appeal is lodge the DWP will pay from the date u have appealed from not the date it was lodged.

      • UK-Wide Watcher

        Lord Freud said,
        ““I turn now to ESA. At the moment, if someone appeals a refusal of ESA, it can continue to be paid pending the appeal being heard; this is not changing. What is changing is that there can be no appeal until there has been a mandatory reconsideration. So there will be a gap in payment. In that period-and I repeat that applications will be dealt with quickly so that this is kept to a minimum-the claimant could claim jobseeker’s allowance or universal credit. Alternative sources of funds are available. Of course, he or she may choose to wait for the outcome of the application and then, if necessary, appeal and be paid ESA at that point.”

        • It depends on the reason for refusal. For instance if u fail to attend a medical assessment then ur benefit will be stop and u will need to request a mandatory reconsideration and then appeal no benefit will be paid until appeal has been heard and a decision has been made. As for failing the ATOS medical, once the decision has been made that u are fit for work the requirements are an appeal has to be lodged with courts once this appeal has been lodged. The court send u, ATOS and DWP confirmation that ur appeal has been lodged the DWP will make benefit payments at the appeal reduced rate until ur appeal has been heard and a decision made.

          • this is a completely untrue. if you fail the medical then you cannot appeal until the mandatory reassement is done. mean while all esa is stopped and you are advised to sign onto jobseekers in other words you are told to commit fraud, this also invalidates any appeal.

      • overburdenddonkey

        mr smith
        what distracting nonsense you speak…£71/wk is hardship…where all resources are drained away…then beg, to go onto £35/wk is tantamount to nothing….almost worse than nothing…imagine trying to keep out of debt on that amount? it could not be done..therefore it is a torturous amount to live on…and/or be sick….it is a sick joke…we are money junkies in the uk…we cannot live without money anymore…the lower rate e and sa should not be removed…it is done to create hardship…and it will…extreme hardship….
        on a side note not aimed at you mr smith…funny how those not affected by the pain or never have to feel the pain, always say before they inflict it, as if, this in some way cleanses their guilt…”i know this is going to hurt”, but do it anyway…coz i have real no means of stopping it, coz i’m gonna be run ragged in any case, by this odious system..but funnily they have the means to stop it, but intend to keep it in their portfolios…for their rainy day! + the burden of reems of paper work form filling, which just adds injury to insult…and having to be totally focused on that form filling and “forget”, sickness, the stress and self control…it is the crux “self control”…this where the deep harm will come from…the being in 2 places at once….the link to all the role models and rise above it, shit…and the, “we’re doing our best but we are overwhelmed…short staffed etc”..and what am i supposed to say about that or do about it when i have no income, and i am obviously now abjectly powerless to intervene at any level, that will relieve my suffering…? ie the practical realities of getting much needed benefits…ironically designed originally by clem attlee…to bring relief and preserve HUMAN dignity….

        • Ty my friend, i am ESA claimant with nerve aparaxia and cerebal palsy in both legs, i jsut love how ATOS and as i write this my apraxia is affecting my brain i only spot certain things spelling wise, but i ahve numeropus pains runnign through my body, not to mention the colalsping etc, i currently have one of these outrageous ATOS assesments on the same day ims uppsoed to see my specialist for a test to try and help me cope with my condition better, so thankyou so much DWP for trying to send a guywho ahs been labeled unfit for work by 3 different specialsits unfit for work, If my doctors arent communciating with you then they need to, or you are completely ignoringthemw hich i think is more likely the case, stop hassling us the geuine disabled who have been medically unfit sicne they were born im sorry but stop on and Mr Smith whoever you are i would gladly give you my condition and see how you like being able to hardly walk without sweatingp ain etc, getting up and almost collasping minis trokes and various other things, the way this country is run is an absolute joke and the DWP need to learn tos top picknig on us vunerable people, when did the law cahnge to say this disabled person deserves to be ridiculed ims ick of it, our lifes are hard enough already.

          • Couldn’t have said that better myself well done you.
            I’m always in pain since I was a kid and now I’m 39 still in pain .they stopped my benefits a year ago I’ve sent them all hospital letters from the professor I’m under .I couldn’t attend tribunal due to my condition, so a good friend sorted it so that he would go on my behalf as I was unable to do so.my friend one the day in court payed me backdated money my friend walked out the court with a piece of paper stating should I need to be medically assessed in the future that it should be done at my home due my debilitating condition.then two weeks later I receive in the post a letter from the medical assessment people saying I need to go to Holloway London to be medically assessed.I call them to explain the situation.and guess what they don’t have any information that court hearing took place or fuck all.I don’t have no doctor as my surgery struck me off there books and abandoned mevsaying that I have nothing wrong with me.I have Erythromalaiga so my feet are fat and bright red in colour you can vividly see I have a problem what’s going on .left me in a bad way medically,
            No money coming in .
            my life was bad enough now they have made everything hell for me.I keep sending them letters recorded delivery but they just keep ignoring me .how’s this fair .

      • That is the case at the moment, but not from october and is indeed as above

      • Oh, yeah, the hardship allowance, a poxy £40 a week. But the likes of you, think even that’s too much, after all don’t the poor sqander this 40 quid on nights out & luxury holidays,? (sarcasm intended)

        • That’s not nice is it, suppose it was you or your mum trying to get benefit because theyare ill or disabled and being denied it, you would’nt say this then would you. And you call yourself a human being, try being in their shoes before you spout your nonense.

      • Given this is my 13th week without income, I can confirm that they only pay assessment rate (currently) in special circumstances if you are appealing a decision (if being migrated from an existing benefit).

        However if you are coming from challenging on specific points of law, they will tell you that your appeal has been filed. Shift you to a clerical issue claim (which is never paid to you as the claimant), Block all communication with the Incapacity Benefits Reassessment team. Redirect (unofficially, as officially requires to be on the record). All communications with the DWP complaints resolution team.

        The DWP complaints resolution will eventually admit that the block is unofficial, they will refuse to acknowledge that your GL24 although filed has never actually been actioned by DWP Canterbury and refuse to deal with any other complaints other than that of matters concerning staffs behaviour. When you offer to give them audio recordings of their atrocious and unprofessional behaviour they refuse to accept this.

        So effectively you will be left outside of the entire system with no right of appeal (Contrary to Article 6 Human Rights Act) and no income.

        All departments will tell you that the IBR have to deal with this, and the IBR will slowly block them one by one from contacting them directly.

        This is the reality and it is to get worse under the new rules.

      • trange that a letter from my mp stephen mosely mp for chester written on parlimenty letterhead abd sent from his office completely refutes your rather ignorant, lacking in any sense of truth or indeed knowledge. please if your going to post complete fiction do it on the apporpriate websites maybe one concerned with sci fi.

      • oh yes they do because they did it to me. luckily i have industrial injuries and a small private pension so i was able to keep going while they stoppe d all the esa. and then when you get your phone call weeks later you can get your money reinstated as you say at a lower rate

    • The message from the government is simple….. get a full time job or die. No exceptions, no mercy, no law to help you…. work or die….. your choice.

      • Totally agree.
        Having worked for over 20 years, paid higher rate taxes, I found myself disabled due to suddenly being diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis and later Fibromyalgia. It’s a continuous fight to get (and retain) sickness benefits … whilst constantly being told that you are a scrounger and work shy, with no value as a human being. The whole process is inhumane, demeaning and humiliating. It takes a huge toll on not just your physical health but also your mental & emotional well being. I can honestly understand why a lot of us disabled people feel suicidal and I am saying that as a normally optimistic person.

        As 7th richest country, the UK has a shameful approach to treating their most vulnerable people.

        • Damn straight it’s inhumane, it’s disgusting and against human rights entirely, judges only pass it off as not discriminating because the government been put throught the ringer probably paid them off! & too right, they treat those who come into our country better than us! Get em told, I have a facebook group fighting against all this if you are ever interested X

        • I agree too being in a similiar boat to you Susanne difference is i was born with my disability but ia gree with you completely

        • Hi susanne, my story is exactly the same as yours,(including rheu+fibro, with other serious stuff)I was a fireman and have a small pension which pays for my mortgage and council tax. They cut my benfit off as a result of my pension. The tribunial was rigged and i was a very easy target with my pride and my attempt at hiding my shame.The doc and judge were like two young nazi officers having fun at my expense.They were not on my side at all ,as i was led to believe.I have lost faith in a system and society that i used to protect.. ps. did you know GP;s were given large pay rises prior to the Atos Death panels, Think of it what you may???

      • And work till you die so you can’t claim your pension

      • And there is next to no full time jobs in alot of areas only PT NMW temp jobs.

    • Im not very well. Do you have a head and eye ball. Well erm yeah. Well get your head out and roll up for a job digging roads or get fck all.
      They complained the way hitler treated the jews yet these fck wits can put our loved ones in the same hole they ended up in. Same mind sets to me like. Might not be the gas chambers on show but just as bad. we have to be driven to kill ourselves.
      Who actually makes these fcking rules up please and why is no one getting together in there thousands to turn this crap over.
      There mind set is well if life is good for me and my family” im not skint why should i give a flying fck who you are. I would kill you all in a heart beat. UNTILL ONE BIG DAY COMES AND HURTS ONE OF YOUR LOVED ONES (KARMA WILL COME)
      Please no one vote for any of these monkeys.

  1. the people who make the laws are the super rich ,so what do you expect…

  2. ConDemLab, They’re all the same – nothing to choose between them -sick in the head, consumed with hatred for their fellow countrymen. This nation is in so much trouble in the grip of these demons – only the poor and sick really know how much thet are capable of and how low they can stoop. At present we have ConDem calling the shots but Labour are in the same groove and will do exactly the same if elected.
    Their latest word is rigour. It’s being repeated over and over re the school exam debacle and it pops up on the DWP press release on post work program arrangements for those still unemployed – this is the most disgusting sheet of A4 I have ever read. A government department talking about hit squads, pressurising claimants, uncompromising regimes
    serial offenders against people who have nothing – not even health or hope in many cases -is vile filth.

    I urge everyone to read the disgusting message they are dishing out to people who cannot afford to eat. The link is on my Twitter account.

    It ends with the words ‘intensive support lasts for six months’. Assuming the claimant is still clinging to life after six months of government sponsored abuse, what is their next trick I wonder? Hanging from the neck until dead?

    No one should laugh at this idea, their ideas would not disgrace a psychopath

    • When you have finished whinging, how about you work out a non-party political way we can get out of this inhuman Tory mess in two years.
      Otherwise get your arse into pushing Labour to repeal it, and getting them elected 2015.
      That’s the best chance we’ve got.

      • Agreed
        As distasteful a Labour vote may be, it looks the only sane option, and if they do gain power, push your local representative to repeal these acts

        • FORGET about [Forced] Labour Party. Vote GREEN.

          • Id rather vote Respect, followed closely by Green, but there is no fuckin way on earth i’m risking watering down any opposition to this lot.
            The UKIP pricks will certainly help with taking votes away from ConDemn with their attempts to vote an unelectable shower of shit, granted…

            Sib mate, i KNOW that, Its like asking Gary Glitter or Stuart Hall to baby sit for you, both are gonna destroy your life and try to fuck your kids.
            But until we form a solid alternative what can we do?
            Britain under new labour was horrendous, but who can hand on heart say they were worse than this lot?

            • It’s ironic, really, that the only people who will be able to vote for a minor party with a clear conscience are the ones (like me) in whose constituency a Labour victory is a foregone conclusion. (My MP is Paul Blomfield; while he only just scraped home in 2010, I don’t think he’ll have any significant problem this time around.)

            • You would seriously vote for ‘Respect’ ? You know that the complete arse George Galloway is a candidiate right ?

      • ‘whinging’?
        This is people’s fucking lives ffs!
        Drop the attitude.

      • A vote for Labour would just be a vote for different masters, who would still screw us – vote for yourselves.

        There is a non-party political choice out of this inhuman capitalist mess, it’s called anarchy – that is the best choice anyone has.

        You can vote for any political party you like, non-partisan or no, but you’ll still get government which will screw us over.

      • Really? Informing people is now considered whining? Or are you just trying to discredit her so people don’t take the threat as seriously as they should? She is INFORMING people about how bad things have gotten… futhermore, you don’t know what other steps she may have taken on the activist/ action side, you have just assumed she has done nothing and are denigrated her based on an assumption. Oh by the way, your government is corrupted and infiltrated by global elites who are pushing things like this all over the world… they want the “useless eaters” dead. Voting isn’t go to do anything because the system has been corrupted… don’t ASSUME I am wrong, look this stuff up, get informed or you’ll be just as ineffective in stopping all of this as you claim her to be. Look up depopulation, Agenda 21, Bilderberg, New World Order, etc. Don’t just assume I’m crazy either, look it up. Assumption is NOT the way to go, it only keeps one ignorant.

  3. It’s discusting how these people are getting away with murder and the thousands who seem to be brainwashed onto thinking its not the reality. We, the people should not sit in silence.

  4. This is just plain WRONG. Our politicians, all of them, have completely lost any kind of moral compass and seem to be engineering the kind of eugenicist solutions that the Nazis in 1930s Germany would be proud of.

    I hope that we get the chance to hold the perpetrators of these crimes against humanity to account, sooner rather than later.

    This cannot be seen as a case of unforseen outcomes, as it has been deliberately thought through in the full knowledge that it’s effects will be severe.

    What kind of sick mind though this one up?

  5. omg, what next………………….i really am losing the will 2 live with this country & how it treats its residents…………………………………..

    • You’re not alone. At the moment, the only thing keeping me tethered to life is one elderly cat – there’s literally nothing inspiring hope in me any more.

      • Don’t let the ConDems find out you have a pet!! They will force you to have it put to sleep before you starve to death yourself!

        • I have considered that. If I were placed in the position of not being able to afford to keep her, whether that meant putting her down or rehoming her, I wouldn’t see out the next 24 hours.

      • I know the feeling, I’ve been ignoring some very worrying symptoms for months in the hope that it’ll be cancer. I’ve had 3 work capability assessments in 3 years and a completely different result for each one. I just filled in an ESA50 and will soon be called for a fourth, they’ve already given me one nervous breakdown. If i commit suicide my family will feel worse than if it’s natural causes so all I can do is hope it’s something fatal.

        • Be inspired by yourselves, don’t let the bastards grind you down, for you are worth a thousand of them.

          I know it’s easy for me to say, but please don’t give up hope, get in touch with your local anarchist group who will probably know of some kind of support group, and if they don’t will probably knwo people who’d like to set one up and will be willing to help.

          Don’t suffer in silence, tell someone local to you about your situation. You yourself may not be able to do much, but there are plenty of activists who would only be too happy to act on your behalf, all they need is your permission to be seen as an example of what is being done by this evil regime – they don’t have any personal agenda beyond the creation of a society that is human and fair to all according to human need, not greed.

        • I’ve just been through Cancer wouldn’t wish on anyone so PLEASE do not use in your post this way!

  6. Reblogged this on "Traciness" in all its glory. and commented:
    Makes me sick to the stomach whenever I read news of this Governments attack on the Disabled…. Surely we should be taking them to court for actions of at least manslaughter by now??

  7. UK going back to Victorian era

    How many more people need to die before this ATOS crap is scrapped!

  8. Add to this that many sick/disabled people are losing their support workers, etc, because councils are struggling for funding and are forcing people to contribute towards the cost of what is often the only support they get, and setting payments which are unmanageable (I’ve been asked to pay £41/week for my mental health support worker, out of basic ESA and DLA which I struggle on anyway).

    Without this kind of support (and other services too), it’s virtually impossible for some people to even apply for the benefits they are due, let alone attend tests and appeal decisions. I would have nothing if it weren’t for the support which I’m now possibly going to lose.

    The result of this policy of councils clawing back every penny they can is that as people are choosing (I use that word guardedly) to not pay and not have the service, is that the services are beginning to struggle because they need the clients in order to survive!

    Fewer services, greater need, starvation and destitution. Starvation is real… by the time I got support I needed I was just over 6 stone and terribly ill.

    Bit by bit, the government are removing every safety net and every lifeline. “Sadistic psychopaths” is a very good description of the perpetrators.

  9. Firstly, if you’re on ESA, build up your savings, however you can! If you can find a tenner a week, do so. You can save up to £6,000 before they take anything away from you, which is a year and a half’s worth of £71 a week.

    Secondly, it may reduce the number of ESA cases, but I should imagine that there’s a strong chance that the first person to appeal under this new process will launch a judicial review of it. Given that the government doesn’t seem to have had much luck in the courts lately, what’s the betting the withdrawal of payments will be declared illegal?

    Thirdly, as far as I can tell, if the mandatory reconsideration goes your way, you won’t be repaid the benefits you’ve lost either. More government-licensed theft from those who can least afford it.

    But the DWP is in far more trouble than most people know. ECHR law establishes that whilst it isn’t a requirement of the ECHR to provide a benefits system, if a government does, it must not be discriminatory in its application. And the WCA has just been ruled discriminatory against mental health conditions, which means that as things stand at present, everyone with a mental health condition whose benefits were stopped, interrupted or downgraded has legally had their human rights infringed (not just morally) and should be compensated for that by the government. Of course, the government would try to legislate against it, if all else failed. (We’ve seen that before.) But I doubt Strasbourg would have much truck with that. I don’t know if there’s a case before Strasbourg over last year’s emergency Theft of Benefits Law – there should be, though; it’s a shoo-in – but anyone who advocates leaving the EU should remember that it takes us one step closer to letting the Tories realise their dream of abandoning the Council of Europe, disengaging from the ECHR, and stripping every British citizen of any concept of human rights altogether.

    • btw I know that for many people the idea of finding even a fraction of a tenner spare a week is impossible. I don’t know what to suggest. For most people this is going to make appealing decisions impossible, and I suspect that in the upper echelons of government, no more thought went into it than that.

    • Ah, here we go: http://gu.com/p/3gftb

      I suspect it was just a matter of finding someone with standing prepared to let the Public Interest Lawyers do their thing (because as I understand it, Cait Reilly’s compensation award stands, even though the law in question seeks to forestall future awards on the same principle – so Ms Reilly herself has no standing).

      • It’s going to become increasingly difficult to fight court cases without financial clout. If Public Interest Lawyers become involved, all well and good, but what about those cases where they aren’t able to support? I know people are really skint, and circumstances vary, but most of us could afford to donate a small amount to a fighting fund, or stage fund-raising events in aid of particular cases. It’s hard that we’re all facing state cutbacks, but that was always a risk we faced when relying on the state. If we own our own institutions it makes it hard for anyone to take them off us, if we owned our own legal aid systems we would be a lot stronger, and the boss class less sure of their power. Legal aid has been reduced drastically and charges been brought in for tribunals for a reason, and not because the economy is fucked, they want to leave us reeling, but it’s up to us whether we do that, or think ‘fuck that’ and form our own instituions

        • Agreed, the only way we can ever win is to refuse to play their one-sided games.
          Violent revolt is not the answer, the state knows only to well how to deal with that kind of dissent

          • I’m not a pacifist, as it doesn’t sit well with being an anarchist, however I believe that violence is only ever morally justified in defence, and as Ulysses points out, the state knows how to deal with violent dissent, (and has most of the toys).

            Our strengths are numbers, and our abilities to organise ourselves and act. It’s clear from reading the many blogs that people are angry, which is good, that people are scared, which is natural. However, the only way in which we are going to have a hope in hell of winning is to take our anger, overcome our fear, and empower ourselves, along with others. We won’t do this alone. Our political masters, of all colours, have caught us on the hop. Round One to them then, but Round Two will be a different matter. We are weak at the moment, but all the time resistance is building, and it’s building from the bottom up.

            It’s almost inevitable that the next government will be as nasty as this present one, or possibly even nastier. Of course people hope that Labour will be less nasty than the Tories, like they were the last time, but crucially, unless Labour are going to, (or are forced to) reverse 30+ years of neo-liberal bollocks, they will merely be the less nasty option, but still far too nasty. Even a return to Labour’s ‘core values’ would not be enough, as, however well intentioned, the government running things on ‘behalf of the people’ isn’t enough of a safeguard, as we now know. The people need to be running things directly themselves – the people merely lack the confidence.

            The daftest objection to the people running things themselves, is also probably the most common, that it would cause chaos… But isn’t it chaotic anyway, and surely with thousands of minds like ours, each one far more attuned to the real needs of people than the idiots we put in place to govern us, we could come up with better solutions than they do?

            And, perhaps paradoxically we could do it cheaper, as we’d not have to employ parasites like politicians, bankers, royalty, clergy and all the myriad other ‘hangers on’ that leach off us.

            We are angry, this is good. We also know that our struggle is going to be a long one, with setbacks along the way, this is less good, but does prepare us. I can understand that many people prefer the ‘devil they know’ and advocate an alternative political party of the left, but this would inevitably bring us back to where we are now at some point in the future.

    • This is why they want to get rid of judicial reviews. They don’t give a fuck about EU law either. Illicit Dole Slasher will just get the law reversed retrospectively as he has done before.

  10. *clap* *clap* *clap*…

    Oh IDS, you have really outdone yourself this time, well done. Now you can have a nice glass of chianti, put your feet up in front of the fire, and sit back safe in the knowledge you have deliberately set people up to starve immediately, or expose themselves to accusations of fraud of the benefits system. Brilliant sir, truly, since this level of what amounts to legal entrapment of some of our most vulnerable people must count as the most devious, callous and downright evil measures ever taken by a British government minister against his own people.

    IDS, I hope you burn in whatever hell you believe in, you evil scum!

  11. overburdenddonkey

    the claimant is already put under severe pressure, to prove their symptoms of well known medical conditions…are in fact true…being forced to gather “medical evidence”..that is already well known…notwithstanding that according to gp’s they have already..and gp’s are pissed off for re providing…this extra pressure adds even to that barbarity….the extra stress of having no income!!!!, the extra stress of still having to fight for benefits with no income, and possibly no HOME, as they ask one for more and more paper and evidence, blaming the victims. for the delays caused by not providing it…the onus should be on the dwp to collect it…prior to benefits being stopped…they now act as if all illness is unique and that they have never come across your particular illness, or it’s affects in their careers..that illness is diagnosed by the presentation of particular medical facts and therefore symptoms…seems to have escaped their attention…thus destroying the victims confidence, at the outset that they are likely to see one’s case…in the normal light of standard medical practice…so if they are that incompetent..why are they in this judgmental position? sun 9/6..22.00> radio 5..on pip, + mcvey interview + claimant distressing clip….then forced to explain and re explain over and over and over again…they drive one into dispair…

  12. Pingback: Disagree With An Atos Decision? Then Starve Say...

  13. ESA lose sick notes really well, not once, not twice, but three times!!!!

    • Angel, can i ask, do you actually recieve reminders and return envelopes for sicknotes about to run out?
      My sicknote, pre ATOS assesment was long term, but after i received “Nill point” and ended up in hospital, the doc put me on 4 weekly notes and 2 weekly visits, purely to keep a watchful eye out… Making sure of no relapse
      Since ATOS back stepped and back dated my claim to when they stopped benefit, i only received reminders for the first 2 sick notes.
      Now i may need a tinfoil hat here, but i joined the dots and concluded the DWP were hoping i’d forget the date that notes lapsed, therefore giving them a reason to stop payments?

      • overburdenddonkey

        ulysses…yes, it true about the sick note reminders…fit note never works for me…i have been told as much…”keeps you on your toes”…or they send the reminder late…or not at all…

        • overburdenddonkey

          ps once one is back on to full rate of e and sa, the need for sick fit notes is diminished,check for latest details as they are continuously “improving” the system..

  14. Those of us with our health should be thanking our lucky stars. The government seems to be inspired by Nazi Germany these days. And just think: the sick and disabled didn’t even cause the financial crisis. Evil beyond belief.

    • Don’t just thank – act. If you know anyone left destitute, help them out. If not, put some money by for when you do – because you will soon. And vote against any party that supports this holocaust (which is all of Labour, Lib Dems – liars who “bitterly opposed” it until they were in bed with the Tories – and the Conservatives themselves, of course).

      Yes, I’m calling this a holocaust. That’s what it is. Slower and quieter than the Nazi solution, perhaps, but the effect will be much the same – a country where the “unfit” have been burned out of existence.

      • All political parties are complicit as none are speaking out in any discernible way.

        Shame and a plague on all their houses.

        • I attended a meeting in Parliament on the 3rd of June, regarding food poverty in the UK. The sum total of politicians there were a Conservative MP who left after 10 minutes, a Labour MP who kept coming in and out, a Lib Dem peer (Baroness Miller) and Natalie Bennett (Green Party leader).

          The Green party gets my vote, based primarily on the fact that the party leader (potential PM) actually bothered to show up and discuss the situations the current ConDem government is foisting on the poor.

          • I hate advertising, with a passion, but I have come up with a few ideas that I’m looking for feedback on at http://tledge.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/architect-of-society-i/

            We’re all talking about how the government is fucking us up, but I’m thinking we should also be focusing on how they can do better. They likely won’t listen, but the competition just might.

            • Sadly your ideas rely on government, which is the root of the problem. Your ideas are hopelessly bureaucratic, and to be blunt, terribly naive – we need more graduates with useless mickey-mouse degrees like we need a hole in the head.

              Governments can’t do anything but fuck us up, it’s what they do.

              We need to get rid of government entirely.

  15. Who was it, suggested run the politicians out of town?
    Run the useless eaters right over the fuckin’ white cliffs
    What saddens me on here is all the posts of folk stating “no hope” “i’m only hanging on for X,Y or Z…
    It saddens me because i too have felt that, but bollocks to all that, i wont go quietly.
    The hope i have is sooner or later with all this current horsecrap, folk will abandon the society we have built that imprisons us,see we no longer have a use for the kind of society that feeds the rich from the misery of poor, the society i call Tantalus.
    “Look what you too can have, round the next corner, the next pay rise, work harder, faster, Tomorrow you can have this lifestyle too.”
    Well, tomorrow never comes.
    What we can have is a society that looks after its own. A society that doesnt fly its goods halfway or even three times round the globe, but produces locally where possible, a society that forfills needs, not want and greed And a society where abuse isnt tolerated.
    And the abuses that Neoliberalism is inflicting, that this un elected coalition is inflicting…

    • I suppose the clever thing is that the government is killing people in isolation and not putting them in camps where it would be more noticeable.

      • D’ya remember the almost daily media hooohaa, about the kids in South Wales, Bridgend, i seem to recall, having some kind of cult of topping themselves?

        All gone quiet, aint it.

        • you of course know why. I watched a programme recently re Cyril Smith and how he was allowed to do what he did. When did we find out? When he died of course. We know many perpetrators today who wield huge political influence yet they cannot or will not be named. This country should hang its head in shame. We can no longer rely on Britain.

      • overburdenddonkey

        what they do is to put one into dire need to remove one’s voice, first….martin niemoller………….

        • Doesnt really work though in the age of Social media though, a good percentage of us after we get over the initial shock, find these blogs and groups, and discover that although separated by geography, we aint by any means alone

          • overburdenddonkey

            …i have attended many wca’s…many appeal tribunals…that one should not be facing in the 1st place…the constant threats of being forced to “work” ie caught up in the job seekers loop…and also coping with the affects of one’s illness with very scant practical support..and a system deliberately biased to find one fit for work..even though the gp is ignored…
            yes i am in good company…but in explaining over and over and over again ones case, one is alone…tired, exhausted, drained…one has to be in their moment on the days of ones trail, for what one should not be fighting to get, benefits…the medical facts + the entire nhs, have already decided i need..one has to face these things alone…ask them how their illnesses affect them..draws an “angry” reaction…”we are not ill”,…now what does that, imply, a not said, “but you are!!!”….but, with no income i will be completely alone…i know what i face ahead, i see it all coming…so not alone yet, in the sense you mean….i live in the moment, one has to…i enjoy your company and that of others…i shall do my best to prevail…

            • I think that’s what made me crack. The silent accusations, the implication of being a liar.
              I even once described myself to a psychiatrist as feeling like a parasite.
              Well, no more.
              Now i know who the real parasites are

            • overburdenddonkey

              ulysses…they turn all of the illness round on one so one fights ones self..one is put in a position of reproving symptoms…more importantly causal disease that has already been proved…now carrying the affects burden of the disease, into the battle to prove one has the disease and symptoms thereof…of face destitution…one wishes one was not ill..and even lives in the vain hope that the entire nhs is wrong but alas they are not…then one thinks..is pushed into HEADSPACE..of cartoon world, coz it is the only place one can be…almost clamped and squeezed between 2 places the nhs and atos…and one feels a parasite, even hopes one is, coz it puts ones destiny back into ones own control…but sadly one is ill and cannot sustain work… i mentioned a radio 5 clip on this post…hear the same distress from this victim…

            • obd ~ listened to the R5 clip earlier & it was heartbreaking. (It was referred to/signposted in a FOI request add-on comment).

      • love1salluneed

        Absolutely. I mean, that would be far too despicable wouldn’t it? By dividing society and belittling poor people and then hiding the real figures and ‘outcomes, they really are worthy of Hitler and the SS.

  16. Teesside Solidarity Movement

    Reblogged this on Teesside Solidarity Movement.

  17. There’s nothing much I can add to any of the above comments – it seems the bile of this disgusting bunch of monsters is making everyone of us sick, physically ill.

    There must be an intention to literally starve to death the individuals of whom they disapprove – there is no alternative explanation but who the hell are these morons to play God with people’s already miserable existence?

    I can only say that we do need to do something. I live in a small town which isn’t all that political as a result and travelling is expensive but I would do whatever it takes in an admin sense to help hurry the demise of this evil regime. People are dying and it could be us or our parents who become victims while we await the big vote in 2015.
    It has reached the point where I don’t sleep much any more – I am tired and hungry atm but would welcome a discussion with any of you about how to proceed. I’m not comfortable allowing this heap of toffs crap on me and my proud class from an ever greater and greater height. They are becoming shameless and it’s getting out of hand. If we allow them to continue it will become the norm – talking to and treating us worse than the law would allow a dog to be treated.

    I can’t abide war, but the fact remains that our grandparents and parents fought a total of ten long years to keep fascist from treating us this way .

    I have precious little time for Ed Milliband and his ever more centre polititics(forget the left bit -that went west ages ago), however he did once say one thing which I agreed with wholeheartedly.

    Speaking about ConDem he said something to the effect that they couldn’t run a pi*$ up in a brewery. And it’s true. The problematic thing is though, that they are cruel enough to run a concentration camp and the way they view anyone who does not pay tax, it won’t be long before people begin to be sent to places of a similar nature

    I am happy to do anything to rid us of this scurge -ideas please!!!!!!!

    • I think it’s just a matter of time before those who don’t pay tax are deprived of the vote – a cretin close to Cameron, whose name escapes me, a smug young Tory twat, has floated the idea already.

      As for ideas, mentioning pretty much the only thing that’s left to us that might be effective will get my door kicked down and me jailed. So I won’t.

      • I think that’s probably the same idea I don’t dare mention for much the same reasons…

        (Delighted to see you back around these parts, btw!)

      • I’m sure there are some idiots considering a move deny the right to vote to non-taxpayers, but really we have to consider whether the right to vote in the first place is something worth having? If we vote, all we get is the usual bunch of amoral cretins, and even if we do manage to vote in some half decent peoplr we’d still have to deal with that thing called government with it’s agendas that are always going to be at odds with the people.

      • Terrorism is wrong. Voting is useless, as the only political parties who would help us have 3% of the vote, plus the voting system stops parties with less then a third of the national vote from getting any seats at all. The law won’t help us because we are not allowed lawyers and/or they change it retrospectively. And doing what Ghandi did, or what those Egyptians who hated Mubarak did in Tahrir Square did, won’t work as there are too few of us to make the police back off. Ghandi could do what he did because he had millions to back him up, we have at most a few tens of thousands, many of which are too sick to demonstrate.

        • So it’s good to know that the only option we have is dying with a clean conscience. That’ll make it all SO much better.

          • I think this guy might disagree

            first i heard of him, or should i amend that to took notice of, was in that “I Am Fishead” video linked to earlier

            • Sounds familiar…
              Quite a few on here say similar sentiment

              “…we never decided to become dissidents. We have been transformed into them, without quite knowing how, sometimes we have ended up in prison without precisely knowing how. We simply went ahead and did certain things that we felt we ought to do, and that seemed to us decent to do, nothing more nor less.”
              Václav Havel

        • And that’s the nub of the problem, individualistic thinking, as if somehow it’s only the sick and disabled who are being affected. Yes, there may well be only a few tens of thousands of sick and disabled, but there are many millions of people who are also affected. Do you really think that because you don’t see anything on mainstream TV news that there is no opposition? Well, here’s some news, don’t expect to see any real news on the mainstream media, you need to head to Indymedia, or vice to find out what’s happening, contact your local anarchist group/infocentre/social centre.

          Ghandi didn’t start out with millions of supporters, and in actual fact you don’t need that many dedicated people to really make a difference, as a few well placed, motivated people putting pressure in the right places can ruin the governments day entirely, though having a few million helpers is always welcome 🙂

      • But we’re ALL taxpayers, the sick, disabled,unemployed etc,aren’t exempted from VAT on goods & services, so we’re all paying tax into the system or has that not dawned on the smug tory twat.

  18. “This will mean that those appealing an ESA decision and claiming Jobseekers Allowance will be placed in a potentially fraudulent position. They will be appealing an ESA decision based on the fact they do not believe themselves able to work, and will be claiming JSA based on a claim that they are able to work.”

    Interesting legal situation – would the DWP then be guilty of conspiring to defraud, well, the DWP? More lunacy from that fruitcake, IDS – got his sticky, deranged, fingermarks all over it.

  19. In my blog I wrote, a couple of years ago, that the sick and disabled would, eventually, be stripped of benefits and housed in camps where they would be fed, clothed and medicated – all by the lowest bidder (currently, substitute closed-down hospitals for camps), as the only solution the country can afford – yes, I know it’d be a lie. This ruse seems to me like a step in that direction.

  20. It was always the norm, Cyan, since the Norman conquest.
    Always the Serfs for our betters.
    We have just been fortunate enough to benefit from Beverage and Atlee reforms, the powers that be were stupid enough to give us a glimpse of true social cohesion before the toffs wanted their ball back in ’79. The ideology thought we could be returned to serfdom by wage slavery, using the weapon of tantalisation. You too can own your own house, car, 2.5 kids,laptop, TV so big you cant even see it properly, but hey thats the norm..They lie to themself the more they pay for the TV, blueray or whatever, the better the picture-The more costly the car the better the driving experience- Dr Charles Ford wrote an entire chapter on that little bit of self deceit

    Keep up with the Joneses at number 36, shit all over the Joneses more like.
    Daily media bombardment, drip drip drip feeding, and 30 odd years on, this is the result. control by fear of loss of the shiny things.
    For us, the things aint even shiny any more. The slates over our head, the heat from the fires and food in our bellies.

    • And the powers that be take advantage of the fact that a lot of people have a fear of freedom – as Erich Fromm wrote in his classic book The Fear of Freedom.

      • I’ll look out for that book, thanks!

        • I wonder if it IS a fear of freedom, or simply an unwillingness to take responsibility?
          I find it bizarre how otherwise educated folk can fall for the yoke of organised religion-
          But if you do believe in some deity or other, any misfortune or bad decision can be put down to the will of a god?

          • “I wonder if it IS a fear of freedom, or simply an unwillingness to take responsibility?”

            I think they’re linked, freedom and responsibility. I remember Dostoyevsky goes on about it in a section of his Brothers Karamazov novel – not as good as the Fromm book though, which really helps you to see things clearly.

          • overburdenddonkey

            ulysses…there is no fear of freedom…fear stops us being free…dr dot rowe et al ..”beyond fear”…a hefty read…and dr bob johnson…

    • Been like that since early Athens – even in the “cradle of democracy” the rule was by a wealthy, property-owning elite. Rule by, of, and for the people has ever been a myth at a national level.

  21. So, if the are wrongly assessed by ATOS and appeal, they either starve or sign on for JSA which is tantamount to admitting they are fit for work.

    Why doesn’t IDS just circumvent all of this and save a shedload of money by doing away with all ATOS assessments and revert back to the tried and tested methods from the 16th century? Throw all claimants into a river with their hands and feet tied; if they float then their claim is denied as they are trying to defraud the system, if they sink, then their claim is approved.

  22. cyanbutterfly

    You are absolutely right. Before the bubble popped it was the done thing to just max out the credit card, buy the biggest house and all the stuff therein as you say. Couple next door to me and my ex a few years back had the adjoining 3 bed semi to ours- new build and plain but nice. Her daughter had a four bed so she had to have one as well – for two of them. I said sod that it’s just showing off. What’s the point in your feet not being firmly on the floor ay?

    • Indeed, once you realise the Joneses at 36 dont actually give a flying fig about you and your toys, you set yourself free…

  23. Can’t believe what I’ve just read – how can this even be legal? It’s certainly not moral, but then the tories have never been high on morality.
    This country is a cesspit, run by the sleazy for the sleazy, a country where decent ordinary individuals want nothing more than to work for a living wage & pay their own way. We’re not the scrounging shirkers that IDS & the rest of the shower of shits in Westminster claim we are. And think there’s another 2 years of this hell ahead.;

  24. Reblogged this on Whipped-Stitch Witchery and commented:
    So, let’s see. The Atos assessments are so badly designed that massive numbers of people have been appealing the decisions and WINNING THEIR CASES. The government response?
    Do they… review the Atos assessment criteria and make sensible amendments?
    Do they… put a temporary hold on Atos assessments until they’ve fixed the problems?
    Do they fuck.
    They slash legal aid, essentially denying massive swathes of the poorest in the country from their basic right to legal recourse, and then do THIS.
    I am fucking done. I’m done. I mean it. Roll on the revolution because I cannot wait until 20-fucking-15 for this shit to end.

    • overburdenddonkey

      bunny…+ it is blindingly obvious for all of the reasons rational and logic arguments that atos or the involvement of any 3rd party org…is not even required in the first place…the idea of it’s current incarnation is to tie a millstone around one, so one has to prove debilitation,,that is already well known to have the affects it does…gp + nhs say yes…job done..diagnosis is caused through symptoms…3rd parties remove symptoms and effectively re diagnose one…so original causal condition no longer could exist….

      • Oh I know, It should be obvious to all and sundry that you shouldn’t give this sort of power to a third party with a distinct bias towards getting whichever results make it more money.

        I’m just so furious at the fact that the people affected by this follow the rules set out by Atos and the govt, make the appeals they’re legally entitled to, and the govt’s response is to effectively turn the appeals process into a punitive measure.

        It’s the same thing all over again, as when they lost that court case over benefits sanctions, and responded by retroactively changing the law.

        The Atos and government approach to benefits is making a mockery of our entire legal and benefits system. I will be doing my part at the 2015 vote, but I can’t bear to think how much worse things can get in 2 more years!

        • overburdenddonkey

          yes…enraged…that they try to turn one, in on ones self…so one fights ones self…instead of expressing outrage..
          i think as you do..perhaps i should also add..they are just warming up…none of the purple brigade will be getting my vote….especially with PR….i’ll sit at some point and try to work out voting strats..to use PR..to it’s max effect..

      • by cutting legal-aid!
        they are breaking the law*
        in the UNCHRDP*
        there is an article that gives disabled-people the right to legal-assistance!
        the UK* RATIFIED THE unchrdp* IN 2007!
        as it is an international-treaty!
        that makes it hard-law!
        the way to fight these *tard’s is to use Human-right’s!
        Cameron is terrified of them!
        hit them where it hurts?

  25. They have got to be trying to dismantle working age benefits. Soon the private healthcare insurance linked to work and unemployment insurance must be coming. The rest will be left to food stamps and workfare.
    Its unbelievable what they have done by time limiting Contribution based ESA 12 months and the mainstream media says absolutely nothing. Those in work say nothing as do their representatives. Many have a shock coming if they get ill

  26. I have already been a victim of this nonsense (albeit it self inflicted) as I lost my appeal and E.S.A. at the beginning of last year on the physical side of my illness(fibromyalgia) and refused to “sign on” as I was NOT fit to work ( I was brought up to not tell lies ) .. with the result I was left with no income for 7 months ..when my doctor advised me to re-apply on the mental health side. ..I did pass that medical ( i think possibly because I had an advocate with me this time ) i got through the 7 months with my ex’s help (7years apart) …but it made me feel like a sponge… and if i have to go down that road again , I won’t be here to tell the tale i’m afraid …xx

    • Always take someone as an advocate with you. Record the assessment, secretly if need be (you can argue public interest, if needs be, but you are allowed ot do it antyway under the Data Protection Act 1998 if it’s for personal use).

      @Elizabeth – you are not a sponge, you have a right to life, a right to food, shelter, clothing and medical treatment. It might not be a right bestowed by our government, but more and more humans around the world are coming around to that conclusion. It’s early days yet, but our political class is close to making one bungle too many, and even the most naive Labour supporter should now be realising that it’s time to take sides. If they have any sense of decency whatsoever, they will choose our side, but it’s up to us to make enough noise to let Labour know that we think the pressent leaders are a bunch of shits.

      I still think that any government would be a bad move, even one that is even half way humane, but I recognise that this is probably the best we can hope for, and perhaps at least then we could take a little time out to make our Plan B, where we take over the running of society ourselves and make politicians redundant. We could hardly do a worse job.

  27. Reblogged this on FreeSteveTopley and commented:
    Kill the Poor…..

  28. damn disgusting i am not in these peoples position but i think its really awful I agree many are getting benefit that shouldn’t! but they should continue to pay while they weed out the fraudsters very sad for really sick people shameful of our system to do this!!!

    • A fraud rate of less than 0.4% i may add…

      • D’ya remember at school, where naughty James razzled the lock on the teachers desk and stole the contents of Teachers purse and spent it at dinner time?
        Every one knew it was Naughty James, but there was zero proof.
        So at evening registration, everyone was made to stand and asked for the guilty party to own up, or all 30 of the class got the cane.

        Was it fair to cane 29 kids because of the action of one?

        Make that class size up to 1000 now
        996 are getting caned for the implied actions of 4 naughty James.
        Any reasonable person can see the unfairness in this.

        That 0.4% are receiving benefit because a professional GP and a DWP examiner said they were unfit for work at the time of examination.
        So i ask myself, are that .4% really good actors and committing fraud, hoodwinking doctors and professionals?

        Or, like the disco dancing bad backed Councillors and golfers and paragliders, were they filmed for days and months on end limping and cursing, to be finally caught on film on the one good day that their illness/ injury gave them a bit of relief, a bit of mobility. Maybe they even dosed up on 3 times the prescribed amount of Diclofenac Sodium and Codeine for that one off event, and then they suffered for a week for that hour of dancing, round of golf, carrying bags of shopping…
        But the camera never lies?

    • Meryl, stop reading the Daily Mail and get a life!

      The real fraudsters are the politicans and the bankers.

      If satisfying the basic needs of everyone was made a fundamental right there would be no fraud whatsoever, not even the infintessimally small amount of 0.4%

      • Are you related to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco ?
        I dont do hero worship, but i did, this guy would be up there!

        • Interesting guy… But no relation. I should read some of his ideas, though initially I am sceptical, as I’m an anarchist, and whilst I do think technology is extremely important and useful, I think this guy gives it too much emphasis – and despite his denials, his ideas do seem rather utopian – and I’m no utopian. (He also seems to have a bit of a ‘thing’ about centralisation)

          Thanks for the link, I hadn’t been aware of this guy previously.

          Seeing as you are seeking out books for your reading list, here’s another one: Leopold Kohr, “The Inner City”. It’s an interesting read about planning/architecture. (Kohr described himself as a philosophical anarchist)

          I too don’t to hero worship, but anyone who gets themselves physically ejected from a Marxist organisation has to be worth a second look, though I don’t expect that I’ll perhaps have as high an opinion of him as you do as I don’t see much in the way of anarchism there.

          In terms of my own anarchism, I am somewhere in between individualistic and collectivist strains of anarchist thought, as I see sense, and merit in both, and actually think they complement each other. Of course, at the moment all anarchists also fall into the philosophical anarchist category too, by default, as we haven’t (yet) gotten rid of the state, though it seems that we’re going to have to become more anarchist and do what the state currently does for us more and more as these things are taken away from us.

          In a sense it is a case of ‘back to the future’ as when the state took over providing welfare, healthcare etc, there was already a voluntary system coming into being that wasn’t state controlled. In retrospect, perhaps it would have been better for us now if those independent, (i.e. independent of the state) models had been allowed to prosper instead of being forced to wither after the state took over with the 1945 Labour government.

          Now for some more reading!


          I think you might find that interesting.

          • Yeah i get you on the technology thing, but him being an engineer, he obviously has a bias to technological solution..
            And he certainly aint no Utopian, in his own words Utopia can never evolve, evolution is a big theme in his Venus Project.
            Over burdened Donkey often writes of his visions of sustainable community, Fresco got there first- Definately worth you checking him out, OBD!

            Check out 17 minutes in of this film, and then about 28 minute in – “Its cheaper to give kids things than to keep them in jail”

            • overburdenddonkey

              ulysses…me i’m an engineer truly, apprentice served and all…and we all know what tradesmen can be like..eh! i live by my engineering perspective…to find the great engineer, nature! there is none better imho..can’t build anything as good as nature does…nature is truly fascinating…fred dibnah for god..lad…check out krebbs cycle…

            • overburdenddonkey

              ulysses.. having now watched the highlighted parts…yeah, me to a t, …the mayans built a truly sustainable society 2hr working day every thing worked 4 nature and not as we do today against nature..somehow trying to dominate nature..it can never work..the other community i draw inspiration from, only coz it can be seen, which is not say other sus communities never existed before or after it is just they must have done..but evidence of them has vanished, is skara brea..fantastic place..4000bc/bce….

            • I’m a bit suspicious of Fresco, to be honest. His ideas are good, in my opinion. The emergence of a resource based economy can only be a good thing. But it’s the fact that he’s not really big on sharing that gets me. Apparently he has developed actual blueprints for cities and buildings, and needs lots of money to fund projects to build them.

              Forgive me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t having to rely on him and his Venus Project to do the hard work be against the whole spirit of the project? Of course it was his idea, but trying to retain intellectual property sits better in the capitalist economy of today. In short, by holding those blueprints to secrecy and not putting them out there so that other groups can make his ideas a reality makes it seem like he’s just in it to get rich rather than to actually make the place better.

              Trouble is, there are a lot of people like me who listen very carefully to what he has to say, and agree with him. With that influence, it’ll only be a matter of time before his plan goes ahead with someone else getting the title of being the one who came up with it. i.e someone else would have developed blueprints based off his ideas, made them available, and got the whole thing off the ground without any direct input from Fresco. If you want to known as the man who made it happen, don’t sit on the plans hoping to cash in because ‘only you can make it happen’. Other people can make it happen and hopefully will, whether Fresco’s at the helm or not.

            • overburdenddonkey

              all one needs is a fertile south facing river silt valley as the core…and away the project grows…

            • Lepus, yeah i also found that a bit odd, along with the books DVDs etc being quite expensive.
              I’m always wary of someone trying to sell something, no matter who they are, but i do recognise the validity of a lot of his ideas – and they do, to me at least, seem to make sense…

              What does bug me, it took me 40 years of life before i stumbled upon his ideas, and, i do mean stumble as it was a total accidental internet link click.

    • Meryl, whilst the facts demonstrate that you’ve been misled into vastly overestimating the scale and significance of benefit fraud, thank you for having the compassion to recognise that denying any income at all to very vulnerable people who are simply asking government to do their job properly is a terrible thing. Now, please, do what you can to ensure that it no longer happens.

  29. Check out the documentry I Am Fishead. Not good

      • overburdenddonkey

        ulysses…like all truth it is remarkably simple…a psychopath takes control of the victims emotions…

    • Also see The Corporation, a Canadian film from a decade or so back. Even if company directors are not sociopaths, that film makes a compelling case that the legal entities that are corporations are structurally required to act sociopathically.

  30. people can obviously, legally, claim JSA as according to the powers that be they -are- fit to work. That they think otherwise themselves is irrelevant as it’s unproven/denied. Not saying it’s right, just saying it wouldn’t be fraud, as an assessment (even if wrong) has provided alleged proof that they -are- legally able.

  31. there are even a couple of people who actually think/claim they’re ill when they aren’t. Not saying most decisions that people are fit to work are right, just playing devil’s advocate. A lot of people with even severe disabilities work. So it might even be that a couple of people simply lack confidence but can.

    • Forcing people to do things in which they lack confidence might build their confidence – but it’s much more likely to destroy what little confidence they have left, as the negative reinforcements drown out any positive messages.

      Please don’t play devil’s advocate. The devils have quite enough people they can pay to put their views, without people volunteering to concern-troll for free.

  32. Pingback: Disagree With An Atos Decision? Then Starve Says DWP | Benefit tales

  33. I had more to eat in WWII when I was a child,. Ration Books were on the go then. The men in the Forces died for us to keep our country free, they died needlessly we’ve gone back to when the enemy were invading countries. We’ve got the enemy already living in the country…..Sociopathic, Avaricious, scum Government. The people who have jobs in the DWP want to think themselves lucky that they have jobs they never know what’s around the corner for them and ATOS…..Keep looking over your shoulder, what goes around comes around!

  34. Reblogged on welfaretales.wordpress.com.

  35. Play them at their own game. If you are too sick to work and are being forced, just go to an interview and tell them that you suffer from sickness. That way you won’t get employed. Simple!

    • With 8000000 chasing half a million advertised jobs, id retort that you’d be lucky to get an interview.

    • overburdenddonkey

      stephen…”there’s a hole in my bucket dear lisa, dear lisa”

    • And then the DWP says that you sabotaged your interview and sanction you…

      • How would the DWP know, if you asked the employer specifically to withold the sharing of your personal data as you are allowed to do under the Data Protection Act 1998. The results of job interviews, and the application itself constitute personal information, and I don’t think it’d be very good PR for any company t be found breaching people’s right to privacy

        • Begging the question a bit here…

          The problem in all of this is that the DWP clearly regard themselves as both above the law and able to cloak their mates in the same immunity. The department needs to be reorganised immediately, with a completely new set of people in charge and a remit that emphasises social security once again, and simultaneously its records should be sequestered and thoroughly investigated for the kind of illegal activity with which, frankly, it must be absolutely riven.

      • Yes, but the DWP sanctioning you for failing to lie at an interview is going to be eminently judicially reviewable; I suspect even the notice that you intended to do so would prompt a rethink.

  36. Does anyone know if you would be able to claim Income support if you found yourself in the circumstances that Johnny describes?
    i had a look at the rules on the DWP site, the first part seems easy enough to understand but as you read on it starts to become more complicated.

    • overburdenddonkey

      jay..all e and sa, benefits are lost…perhaps you can get hardship payments..as if living off of benefits, is not hardship…after a leap through hurdles hb+ctax…..come back on stream..
      tis all new terror-tory….yeah, their stuff draws one in and then ties one up in k- nots…check on similar sites to this…dpac..et al..

  37. kelvinhanratty

    Reblogged this on kelvinhanratty and commented:
    unsurprising tactic from the government. sickening.

  38. JV don’t you know your post is misleading – nobody starves now because there are discriminatory food banks lol. You may have to walk miles to get to one but hey if unemployed you’ve got the time if sick you can crawl to one!

  39. rainbowwarriorlizzie
  40. It should be up to dwp to write to your gp asking for confirmation of your disabilities and a confirmation as to whether you can work or not if condition will get better or not etc that.should be enuf for the dwp/dla. We should not have to continually prove to all that we are sick/disabled.
    What I wonder would happen to atos/dwp if all disabled people in the entire country did not attend the assessments on the same month all at once collectively said “No we are not jumping through anymore of your hoops” with one voice all sick/disabled say it then they have to take notice.
    You may argue that they will stop your money but they are going to do that even if we put ourselves through the atos interrogations. We have nothing left to loose they are taking it all away. Writing to mp’s isnt working the media wont report anything bad about atos/unum they are frightened of being sued by unum so they say nothing the dwp are run by unum.

  41. ATO and those in direct control of this filth should be hunted down like the fascist they are and tried in the courts of human rights in Strasbourg, plus the organisation should be broken up and all their ill gotten gains shared amount those whose life they have blighted….

  42. I didn’t think ids could sink any lower but this last move is absolutely sickening. I once was proud to be English , but with scum like this in charge of our benefits system now I wonder

    • You can still be proud of being English, (and I’d never thought I’d ever say that, being Welsh!) as you have no reason not to be, you haven’t caused any of this to happen. As with the case of 1930s Germany, not all Germans were Nazi, but as with 2013 UK, there is a danger that a silent majority isn’t taking the moral stand they should in the name of decency.

      I forget who it was who said this, but all it take for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing… kind of rings a bell.

      • I dunno. I was born English; I never really got any say in it, so I don’t see what there is to be proud of.

        Now, if I manage to get myself into Scotland in time for independence – and especially in time to vote Yes in the referendum – I shall be extremely proud to call myself Scottish…

        • Are you packing yet?

          I predict huge emigration to Scotland from England post-independence…

          Only that will create a huge problem for the Tory asses, who will then empty their bins, clean their streets, clean their houses, look after their kids, look after their elderly?

  43. And there will be nobody to turn to for mentally people with suicidal thoughts.. I really fear for people!!

  44. There are special rules that allow JSA to be claimed whilst an appeal is ongoing and they will not force you to look for work.

    This is so your NI credits are protected and so you are not without income whilst an appeal is ongoing.

  45. jesus christ this has shocked me to the core.Does anyone remember all the stories scum people sold to magazines about them being on the sickness benefits or family’s having like 12 kids and going on foreign holidays and being able to afford ipads etc,etc,etc.The family’s who worked hard saw this and thought well i might as well go on the dole,how the hell they could afford all that on sickness money is beyond me,they were probably paid for the story-these are the type of people they should be going after.The Tories offer to reward hard working family’s which is more than fair but not at the expense of vulnerable people who are too sick to work surely they could make cuts elsewhere,money for wars but can’t feed the poor.I would like to think that the tories will be hated not just by disabled people but also by working people who have a family member themselves who is very ill or disabled and will not take kindly to what the tories are doing.IF WE DO NOT TAKE TO THE STREETS AND PROTEST THESE TORIES WILL TURN THIS COUNTRY ON IT’S ARSE WITH LOADS OF SICK PEOPLE DYING-GET READY TO BE RULED BY HITLER OR DO SOMETHING sunnygirl388@gmail.com based in merseyside,want to protest?email me

    • They shouldn’t go after any family in this manner, end of.
      If people are living above their means by committing benefit fraud in the manner you describe, then there were adequate laws in place to combat this.
      What we are seeing now is wholesale persecution based on lies

    • Just the Tories?… they’re bad, but remember Labour brought in ESA and hired Atos.
      My point is that this is not a Tory problem, it is a Tory, Labour and Lib Dem problem. It’s too easy to fall back into the old way of thinking (circa 1970s) when there did actually used to be a real alternative on offer from one or two political parties.

      • The also gave David “sociopath-in-chief” Freud a peerage and set him to work dismantling the benefits system.

        • something survived...

          Assuming you aren’t Catholic and don’t have objections to contraception: Some welfare countries don’t let you get contraception (condoms or pills or implants) on welfare. So if you have straight sex a baby is likely to result. Then they blame the people for having kids.
          Some places contraception and/or abortion is illegal.

  46. How can the doc’s from atos continue 2 disagree with the claimant’s own gp’s( who have know their own patient’s for year’s) in so many case’s and atos doctor’s only speak 2 patient’s for up 2 half an hour and totally contradict patient’s own family doctor’s. Now because so many people r appealing against atos’es desicion’s the dwp have decided 2 put up more obstacles in order 2 diswade people from appealing. All in all the goverment r still trying to recover the billion’s of £££££ they spent sending the soldier’s 2 two war’s ( irq + afganistan ) Following the american’s yet again as the war’s had fuckall 2 do with us. We the people 3 left 2 pay the price for a war that should’dnt have happened.

  47. When the food riots break out in this country, the government will only have itself to blame.

  48. This is the most ridiculous spin I have ever heard. I used to work for Atos until I left 12 months a go and it’s an IT company. DWP request an IT system be built, supply specifications and spend millions on conducting user acceptance testing before it is delivered to production. All Atos do is build the IT system to the spec specified. Talk about passing the buck!

    • overburdenddonkey

      liam…well done spin miester, on first read it appears you said something, on 2nd read it became clear that you have said nothing at all..

    • For “just an IT company”, ATOS sure does employ an awful lot of “healthcare professionals”. Which field of IT do they work in, then? Still, thank you for your admission that assessing people for fitness to work is absolutely outside their area of competence. Don’t suppose you could go and tell the Work & Pensions Advisory Committee that?

      (Oh, and your astroturfing software might need a tweak. I don’t think this blog mentioned ATOS at all, and certainly nothing discussed within it is anywhere within even ATOS’ overextended purview. Alternatively, may we take your intervention here as an admission that, contrary to your own assertions, ATOS *does* in fact have a stake in the appeals process?)

      • overburdenddonkey

        gwen …this lima software is a mere, magicians prop…to distract the senses, like an incense burner, to mask the stench, of what is really going on…from the extraction of the piss, otherwise known as symptoms…by “them”…that this godly 3rd party “cures,” illness by slight of hand….a diagnostic recalibration…i know just stating the bleeding obvious again..but i like to…. ‘allo,’allo…
        btw sound analysis of mr liam atos…

    • Paul Trembath

      “Only obeying orders” is coming back into fashion. If you didn’t do it. someone else would. Not a very good excuse, is it?

  49. I’m glad this specific issue is starting to gain some publicity. I’ve been trying to raise awareness of it. I even contacted Frank Field and Michael Meacher, but nothing has come of it. Frank Field didn’t seem to have heard of it. He was very helpful, but nothing seems to have come of his attempt to understand the situation or raise a question about it in parliament. It is also appalling to notice that on the DWP website the reasons ‘justifying’ this new mandatory reconsideration state things that are ALREADY the case under the current system. The DWP already does a reconsideration even if someone sends in an appeal form. And they say that the new system will speed up things, etc., etc., which is outright BS, because there is no aspect to the new system that means it will be any quicker, etc. See the reasons given on page seven on this document:

    Click to access appeals-process-changes-q-and-a.pdf

    They’re all total lies.

    Ridiculously, in addition to the problems you outline in the blog post, the DWP would be paying out the same monetary amount if the the person appealing got ESA on the basic rate or was forced to claim JSA. Like you say, this seems a vindictive move all round, to massage figures and make it extremely difficult to appeal against an already shit WCA decision. Of course, if you tell anyone who has never been disabled or ill, they say well, things need changing don’t they?… and hence the Tories and Labour have carte blanche to do anything they want…

  50. Disgusting!!!

  51. I am so scared as I know that a court tribunal can be over 18 months add the extra appeal process and it could nearly three yrs. WTF r we meant to do. I am in tears as I writs this as we have just been moved into a down sized bungalow and its perfect for me. The thought of becoming homeless, even now it’s gonna b a crime if the government get away with this law change,
    I could b banged up for not paying my council tax and other bills.
    Why is the government doing this. Do they really want us to die. If I could work then j would. No one would take me on anyway cos I can’t b relied upon due to chronic spinal pain and my mental health is quite bad and these reforms r bringing me to my knees.
    So I am on more meds cos I can’t cope with the life the government r pushing me into.
    I never thought there would b genocide in this country but that’s what it feels like is happening
    People r dying some committing suicide others on hunger strike. I get more scared with each day that goes past.
    No path to legal aid what can I do ?????

    • This will backfire massively, but some poor bastards are really going to suffer because of it before it does go tits up. The policy is a load of bollocks, if ATOS had a 99% accuracy then fare enough but they dont, they are no where near that figure. Its design is to reduce the payout plain and simple. Even saving 2 weeks cash from the thousands that win or lose on appeal is enough to justify this nasty policy, thats the way they are probably looking at. I dont know how the fuckers have the nerve to publicly even mention this, its pure evil.

    • EMMA you can still claim housing and council tax benefits that right is still there dont panic about that. You would need to inform the housing benefit people and council tax that you are waiting a reconsideration. You would have to claim a hardship payment whilst in reconsideration stage though.

    • overburdenddonkey

      emma….reread this post…the 1st stage is mandatory reconsideration..with dwp DM…which is open ended, time period…the 2nd stage is for…you…to lodge an appeal with the tribunal service..and as i understand it this will mean that you get e and sa at assessment rate…that is known to take many months…which is i believe the 18mths you describe…it is also my belief that this comes into effect in oct of this year..so do as much as you can now to get stuff up together…

    • harassedsohavetobeanon

      So sorry to read what you are going through. You (and others who are also suffering so unjustly) are in my thoughts and prayers. What is going on is so wrong and unfair. Hoping somethng good happens every day in your life despite the horrible stuff going on so you get through this until things improve.
      If I won the lottery I would offer to help (but I am broke and also in a distant country) and I would also start a mega-legal defence fund etc.

  52. Pingback: Disagree With An Atos Decision? Then Starve Say...

  53. In Scotland the SNP will do anything to get a yes vote next September. so move up here and lobby them to repeal this shit,they have promised to repeal the bedroom tax.

  54. Pingback: Employment and Support Allowance – Decision Day! | That Socially Anxious Atheist Paranoid Gay

  55. Pingback: Wednesday, Medical Records, DWP Letters and Panic! | That Socially Anxious Atheist Paranoid Gay

  56. Pingback: Evidence to Public Accounts Committee on Atos and ESA | That Socially Anxious Atheist Paranoid Gay

  57. Pingback: DWP, Atos, Fraud, Job Seeking, and Chronically Sick and Disabled People | That Socially Anxious Atheist Paranoid Gay

  58. this so got me worried now I was so lucky to pass my last esa got full 15 points but what happpens if i don’t pass I going have no money comming in. I am so glad I got my mam for help but this so scary I better start saving now 😦

  59. I just read pdf and now i am really scared by this …. at thsi rate not worth me living anymore

  60. Reblogged this on Disabled 30s and commented:
    It not worth living now if your ill this torys hate us

  61. Pingback: Politicians, the sick and disabled | That Socially Anxious Atheist Paranoid Gay

  62. Death now is the only answer, everything is fucked in this country, its not worth living here even if you’re working, nobody has any respect for anyone, if I died tomorrow it wouldn’t be a day too soon.

    • overburdenddonkey

      phoenix…it is very difficult to describe the road to freeing self…only you know you…there is much toxic gossip out there…and also talked about the quaker values..of anger and rage expression…quakers get their name..from quaking with rage, in the presence of lies…they are NON violent…the path to freedom is rediscovering natural self..ie you..the shock, is that others do what is not is naturally expected….a prime example is what this government is now doing….we are all bound by our needs for vitals..without them we are done for…psycho-paths try to take control of those vitals..and make one needy of them….therefore to control one…the natural reaction to being attacked, is to defend,well defend..with tongue and jawbone…times will only change it you change them!


      • overburdenddonkey

        ps phoenix…i must also add i struggle to..i have to constantly find the strength to defend…under this relentless pressure….we should not have to live like this, but it is what we all have to do..until the struggle is won..

  63. Phoenix

    some of us have respect for one another, try not to be so despondent and down, times change it won’t be like this forever.

  64. Obi Wan Kenobi

    Volunteer centre withdraws from Work Programme because of restrictions on service delivery.

    Volunteer Centre Kensington & Chelsea has pulled out of the Work Programme because it says it restricted the way the charity worked with its clients.


  65. Obi wan kenobi

    Do you know in what way the work programme restricted the way the charity worked with clients?

  66. Obi Wan Kenobi

    No, just got that report, you could email them to find out.

  67. Obi I may do that, see if I get a reply.

    Just watched pmq’s and was disgusted to hear David Cameron justify the benefits cap saying he did not want to subsidize those in social housing. Funny that because quantative easing is subsidizing those with mortgages and he is advocating a subsidy for first time buyers home loans.

    • overburdenddonkey

      fawkes..rents have soared because of these purple policies,QE being a prime causer of true vitals commodity inflation…coz it effectively allows govts to get their hands on dormant money…the way around this is to let the price of commodity vitals to soar, so that the rich get their returns in this way…

  68. Sorry to go of topic but i have just been sacked from my job and am very scared i am a single parent i understand i may be sanctioned in some way when it comes to claiming benefits but my question relates to Housing benefit and council tax benefit will these still be paid? are they separate to any job related sanction i may receive?.

    • overburdenddonkey

      jodiep…the cab?

    • Obi Wan Kenobi

      Jodie P:

      Yes they are related, because to claim HB/CTB you have to be claiming JSA/ESA – IF YOU ARE SANCTIONED ALL OFF THESE WILL STOP UNTIL YOU’RE SANCTION IS OVER, You can however claim Hardship Benefit whilst you’re sanction is in effect but only after the first 2 weeks of you’re sanction starting – it’s the same as JSA but reduced by 40%, then you can get you’re HB/CTB up and running again but you have to re-apply for them from you’re council via the usual claim forms.

      • and will i lose my CTC as well?

      • jodie
        If sanctioned, HB and CTB do stop,
        BUT in this event you MUST go to your local office / town hall, and explain where they can award zero income HB allowance and same for CTB

      • Er, that’s not true, OWK – HB and CTC only depend on your income. JSA, IS and ESA passport you onto a full allowance, and without them you need to prove your income, but you can claim housing benefit if you’re in a low paying job, even.

        Many people don’t seem to be aware of this, believing what you believe; and once Universal Credit comes in (unless, as is looking increasingly likely, it falls flat on its face first), there won’t be any distinction. But at the moment, there’s no link between council-level benefits (LHA, CTS) and state-level benefits (JSA, ESA, IS) other than the aforementioned passporting.

    • Obi Wan Kenobi

      Jodie P:

      VERY IMPORTANT – if you are sanctioned, you MUST appeal this decision, ask at you’re local Jobcentre on how to do this and they will guide you through it. It may be an idea to take your appeal form to the CAB to help you fill it out.

    • overburdenddonkey

      jodiep…1st was your dismissal done in the legally prescribed manner? ur still..entitled to hb+ct, as i recently have..but they ask deep questions about money matters! which is why suggested the cab…to get any letters done to send to your former employer, perhaps before you get in touch with the council… or whatever to save unness stress…at this very stressful time..


  69. JodeP

    Even if all benefits are sanctioned, you can still apply for housing and council tax benefit, although some councils drag their heels when issuing it which could incur debt letters from your landlord or the council finance department itself while you are awaiting the benefits to be re-instated (if stopped in the first place).
    Why housing and council tax benefit should not be an ongoing claim when you are still entitled to it I do not know.

    • See above re passporting; all the DWP tells the council is that you’re no longer in receipt of a passporting benefit. At which point the council, in lieu of any other information about your income, stops your benefits until you reapply discretely, supplying evidence that you remain eligible.

      In short, if you’re sanctioned or fail a WCA, you need to get in touch with the council *immediately*, and tell them that you’re about to lose the passporting, supply evidence that you have no other income, and ask them to reinitiate your LHA/CTS claim on those grounds.

      • Thanks for all your help everybody there are still good people out there, so as i understand it now you are still entitled to HB and Council tax benefit as you will be assessed by the council as having no income or what little income you do have will be assessed.
        But the claim will stop initially as you loose a pas-ported benefit and you have to notify the council immediately.

        What about Child tax credits will i stand to loose those?

  70. Obi Wan Kenobi

    It’s a royal pain in the ass when that happens!

  71. I was told *today* that if my WCA appeal (which is in 4 weeks) is rejected then I can appeal that decision but if I do I won’t be eligible for any benefit while awaiting the 2nd appeal!
    I also asked what happens if the appeal is rejected because my current 2-month med-cert (which runs from today) is for a different, unrelated problem to the one I’m appealing. Their advice? “Wait until the appeal is heard.”
    How the fuck can I plan ahead if their own people don’t have a clue how the system works?

    • overburdenddonkey

      rabthecab…they are wrong….ring up the tribunal service, 1 statement of reasons, 2 error in law, 3 decision set aside,…reapply for e and sa if you lose, this appeal. check written statements on welfare rights web sites…as the are many different idiosyncrasies…..

    • overburdenddonkey

      ps rabthecab…you must keep your med cert up to date until you have won your case…or indeed choose to drop it..

  72. its designed to kill off the people that are not able to work as they cost money!!!
    I had a serious accident and became disabled in 2004 after paying high rate taxes for half my life (i started work at 15!) Since that accident if i hadnt got off my own backside and created my own employment i would have not been reemployed as a chef because my injuries wont allow me to get a job in that field anymore as i unable to pass the medical!

    Its sickening to know that for all those years i put money into the system but when i need help from the system they tell me no and i was forced into being homeless! It took moving town and seeing a specialist doctor to get re housed since i was told i was not entitled to a home. I born and bread in england and always been a law abiding citizen. The new system of how the government is running this country does not benefit people like me in anyway at all, in fact it punishes us for having a disability! All the time i was on sick benefit i was constantly hassled and constantly living in fear of having money stopped and being made homeless again!!

    I blame the government for sustaining my illness too, the fear of those brown envelopes dropping thru the door to say my money been cancelled was just too much to bear! I dont earn enough now to feed and cloth myself i struggle and with my disabilities too this is an uphill struggle that just seems to be getting worse!

    It really does show that human life has no value in the uk. Work till you die even if you have no legs and no arms!! SICK

    • overburdenddonkey

      gav…same here, they don’t give a fcuk…it is all take take take take take, from us sucked dry…when we in need, they call us the scroungers and thieves..play some hendrix…watchtower…i’ll listen to it with you…right now….

      • Music is one of the things thats kept me sane thru all the trials and tribulations of the past 9 years! I will be checking this blog more often now! Bless up

  73. Pingback: Disagree With An ATOS Decision? Then Starve Says DWP | The Thurrock HECKLER

  74. Good work, I am glad I stumbled across your blog after one of my twitter followers posted. There is a lovely gap in the middle of ESA & JSA where they can put people so not to harm the “stats” and the bottom line. To fit for ESA but too ill for JSA. Every person that has won an ESA Tribunal would have been effected by this issue in your article if it had been in place before now. The other problem is you have to be fit enough to fight your claim in order to complain your not fit enough, it makes no sense at all. I run a website with a similar theme, your welcome to use this story if you can quote my website as source. Spread the word about the thousands of ill people being shafted by the government every day http://www.myfibromyalgia.co.uk/2013/dwp-issue-conflicting-advice-as-everyone-is-swamped-with-benefits-paperwork/

    • overburdenddonkey

      my fibro…this is something that i have also highlighted in my posts, on this blog…they bog one down in admin to distract one from simple truth and it is…one and one’s gp and the entire nhs agree…that one is suffering from disease or diseases based on what one tells them, the results of med tests, and those medical facts leading to a diag…that fits a symptom framework…cause of symptoms proven and that indeed one HAS/CARRIES, these symptoms…and the cuasal disease(s) of these symptoms…is an integrated part of one…the gp ticks box “not fit for work”..JOB DONE…the dwp is entitled to question the competence of the gp and nhs…but not the competence of the victim of disease(s)…which is what this 3rd party inquiry, in actual fact does….the 3rd party attempts to diminish the affects of the symptoms, effectively re-diagnosing the causal disease….without the symptoms there can be no disease(s)….this causes considerable confusion to the victim of them…on one hand the symptoms prove presence of the cause. on the other as there are now no symptoms, and one is “cured”…….and the victim of the illness is placed in limbo..

  75. Looks like we’re well and truly fucked, because the tories have us over a barrel and blue labour won’t repeal it for fear of losing votes. goodbye democracy, hello 1984.

  76. has any one got the numbers on this whole thing? how much saved against how much it costs? there was something the other day about £1.6 bln atos contracts value. nothing on how much the appeal process is costing and , just a thought plucked from the air, the reconsideration is going to add to that

  77. Pingback: Disagree With An Atos Decision? Then Starve Says DWP | Dystonia & Functional Movement Disorder Sufferer's Blog

  78. Pingback: Atos Doctor Sickened By Claimants, “Well Doc where Sick of You Too”… | Atos Victims Group News

  79. I just watched a program about the Nazi’s on the Yesterday channel It was about the extermination camps and how they decided to get rid of the sick and disabled and the mentally ill it started with assessments too! It made me shudder!

  80. If your GP refuses to provide additional medical support/evidence for you to send in, for ATOS or benefit assessments, the only other option is to see a private doctor and PAY through the nose to get this to send in. B***dy Tories. Time we had people in power with an ounce of decency and compassion. This lot don’t know the b***dy meaning of the words let alone putting it into practice.

  81. Why is no one taking this to the European Courts of Human Rights? Also why is it acceptable for ATOS to be linked to 1100 deaths up to August 2012. These deaths are a combination of Suicides, due to their degrading tests. People forced into work then their illnesses kill them, some people have even died in Hospital, just as the letter from Atos/DWP comes in to tell them they are fit for work. ATOS should be run out of this Country because the death toll keeps on rising. The Government try to put it down to statistics, it is not statistics, it is fact. ATOS policies endorsed by the UK Government is killing people. I saw ATOS vice President on TV well fed and overpaid. on the proceeds of this. It makes me sick. THis organisation lie on their forms to get results, yet get away with it day in and day out. I hate them

  82. Added to that, i read forums where people were talking of taking their own lives and leaving their children behind. I have written to Amnesty International and many Politicians and none of them will help? There needs to be a new election and a protest and vote of no confidence right across the Board against this Government This Government is a disgrace and i agree with the comment above. It is the resurgence of Nazi Germany. I read ATOS have received 3 billion pounds for the likes of this, even some of its own Doctors have walked out in disgrace and it’s Vice president and President still defends ATOS stating “We are following Government Policy” This should go to Europe. The European Government think it is right that people in other European countries should come to the UK and claim benefits and that the UK Government is wrong for denying this. What about ATOS causing all these deaths, why don’t they do something about this? These are our own people who were born here treated like vermin by the lying Politicians of the UK who pledged at the Elections “To protect the vulnerable”. The UK Government pays 3 Billion Pounds to ATOS for this, so i read.? ATOS President gets £800K per year and it’s so called Doctors around £80K per year Look at Triage who refer to the sick as TLBS (Thieving Lying Bastards) That too cost Billions of your pounds Pounds. I cannot believe they are getting away with this. ATOS are recruiting more staff and getting more contracts. How much of this money goes out of the UK and into its IT companies abroad etc?

  83. Pingback: Police called after welfare experts offer advice to disabled ahead of Atos sickness benefit assessments… | Atos Victims Group News

  84. Harold (Fred the Shred) Shipman IDS OBE VC - trust me I'm a doctor

    They want people to commit suicide and die early… saves on benefit and pension payments.

    Under current law the DWP is a criminal offender but it is never likely to be brought to court.

    I recommend crime as a career path, perhaps drug dealing or fraud. Or what about a job as a politician or policeman, Judge perhaps…. well they’re as bent as each other to be truthful.

    IDS makes nonces like Gary Glitter or Jonathan King look like good trustworthy wholesome characters whom you would sooner trust the care and welfare of your children, pets or grandparents to.

  85. I,m attending an appeal next week after 7 long month,s. I wont bore you all with times and dates of everything ? But here is my personal battle with our rulers. Had massive heart attack on aug 4th 2003
    Tried to commit suicide on two seperate hospitalised occasions.
    Blood clots in my left leg three years ago. Wafarin etc etc
    April 13th 2013 heart attack. Admitted to hospital . sent home same night only to colapse a week later with a pulmonary clot ( Lung ) readmitted only to discover that i had several clots in my left leg. I was coughing blood. Now on Warfarin for life . In between all this i have suffered with serious depression only diagnosed in 2008 officially. I suffer with again ( Diagnosed with carpol tunnel syndrome to both hands and been offered surgery, which my doctor wont allow due to clotting , heart attack history etc etc. I suffer with Ostio athritis in my spine and both knees. again was advised to key hole surgey on my right knee and a full op on my left , I suffer with severe gout now finally easing due to new medication ( Less frequent episodes) However i still get attack’s. The list is endless. I was a manager for a building company for twenty two years. And worked as a fully respected and fully Qualified plasterer Since i was 16 years old , Never ever been ill or out of work, Untill my first massive heart attack. And now i’m still severely Depressed and under continuing Psychiatric care
    Ive continued with DWP sick notes from my doctor ,and have paid for letters from him . I Just cannot believe that I’m summoned to the tribunal .
    Im desperate for help and i am terrified (not just scared) of the outcome. How the CONSERVATIVE posh boys are treating us born and bred British citizens is beyond belief. I Honestly believe the only way is for the largest organized public protest in the history of the U.K. For these thick shits to understand. I might as well have tear gas to add to my illnesses. Thanks for reading this 😦 even if its just one person ) David

  86. Pingback: Nil Income Declarations for Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit | kickingtoryassonwelfare

  87. I don’t think that claiming JSA while appealing is a problem for the claimant, legally.

    The condition for JSA is not whether the claimant personally considers himself able to work. The claimant does not decide this. What matters is that the Secretary of State has determined that the person does not have Limited Capability for Work as defined in section 8 of the Welfare Reform Act 2007: i.e that it is reasonable to require the person to work. The claimant may disagree with that determination, but until any appeal is upheld, the determination is neverthelss in place and entitles the claimant to JSA, provided he meets the other conditions such as actively seeking work.

    What is a grave concern is that evidence has emerged that the DWP are requring JSA claimants who have come off ESA to give a commitment not to appeal, before their JSA claim will be processed. This is, in my opinion, unlawful and I am looking into it urgently.

  88. Pingback: Some progress for the #WOWPetition campaign #CIADisability #MakeRightsReality | Notes from a gay mentalist

  89. Pingback: The Secret Cuts, Part Four: Personal Independence Payments | Atos Victims Group News

  90. The government stole my children. Everybody else is doing up their houses and buying new cars on my children’s money, while I don’t get a bean. I am in this exact situation. Going to umpteen appeals, and getting nothing to live on. They are planning to kill us all off.

  91. Pingback: Disagree With An Atos Decision? Then Starve Says DWP | Street Democracy - where it should reach

  92. Pingback: Disagree With An Atos Decision? Then Starve Says DWP ~ The Void | Stop Making Sense

  93. GREAT PAGE, very imformative,, + some good links. Cheers, Paul. T.

  94. The sordidness and vindictiveness of the present Government defies description. They are wicked beyond belief.

  95. franklin percival

    They won’t be happy till we’re all dead in the street!

  96. andrew newell

    i agree franklin percival thats so true

  97. mobluerocck@aol.com

    the void wrote:

    > a:hover { color: red; } a { text-decoration: none; color: #0088cc; } a.primaryactionlink:link, a.primaryactionlink:visited { background-color: #2585B2; color: #fff; } a.primaryactionlink:hover, a.primaryactionlink:active { background-color: #11729E !important; color: #fff !important; } /* @media only screen and (max-device-width: 480px) { .post { min-width: 700px !important; } } */ WordPress.com johnny void posted: ” The DWP have laid a vicious benefit trap which will mean severely sick and disabled people will have no legal entitlement to benefit at all if they choose to appeal an assessment by the notorious IT company Atos. Atos carry out the Work Capability “


  99. mr smith you dont work for IDS do you lol ? /:

  100. clearly they do not pay you nothing as this is my 4th week with not a penny for myself to look after my 13 year old son and our 3 bedroom house it is disgustin how they feel they can do this i only wish someone somehow would make the atos team sick and then put them through what me and my son are going through jus so they know how it feels..

  101. If you can type your complaints here then you can get a job as a data entry clerk. Nobody is asking anyone to dig coal down a mine, just get a job and pay your bills yourselves.

    • What good would a data entry clerk who can’t get to work be?

      My neighbour is agoraphobic. While I’m sure he’d be fully capable of writing a verbose letter, typing responses to blogs such as this, and perhaps even getting a world record score on candy crush saga, leaving his home at all is a task so difficult that he’s only managed it twice in several years. While he’d be capable of many jobs, he wouldn’t be capable of going to work.

      To shorten my response: Computer skills aren’t the only requirement for data entry jobs.

      It’s awareness of skills required which is lacking in this case. However, what of the many millions of other cases? A very valid point present in your statement and my counter-statement was that people with disabilities are nearly always capable of something. Perhaps it’s a good idea to work out what people can and can’t do, and try to adjust the employment, and indeed the system, to integrate the disability and employment areas of welfare together better. However, we don’t have anything in place to identify skill areas in people with disabilities. We don’t have anything in place to better support people with disabilities into work that fits around the disabilities they have. Instead we have a can work/can’t work toggle box that screws people on both sides of it. Those who can work, but are too disabled, are screwed because they are pushed aside and forgotten. Those who can’t do many jobs, but are assessed by a profit-hungry IT company that’s only trying to slough off claimants in spite of real medical evidence as ‘fit for work’, are screwed because they are forced to do work they can’t handle, and which kills them, saving the government all the money that would be keeping them alive for now, and also the pension they’d be getting later in life.

  102. Atos are very untrustworthy with a lot of bonus and targets for there so called Health Care Professionals to meet. Most of them have little or no experience with some patients disability or conditions.
    There examination in most cases takes 15 minuets and worked off a computer generated task/question programme which in most cases is worthless.
    Thousands of results sent to the DWP have been found to be incorrectly filled in whether by malice or mistake. Many disabled people have said after reading the report by the so called HCP, they have found many discrepancy’s from what was done on the examination and said, to what the report states?
    I think after several professional Doctors have left and gone on record saying they were not happy with the way Atos wants them to hit targets, only being able to be met by failing actually disabled people, that now no disabled person can go to an Atos examination with complete confidence that they are going to be examined correctly by a fully trained competent person.
    To say Atos has 933 Physiotherapists – 373 Nurses – 75 Occupational Therapists and only 19 Doctors to serve the whole country, I have my doubts as well. Even a upper tribunal judge ruled that a Phsyo giving an opinion on someone with mental health problems or even depression is of no value otherwise worthless.

  103. I have been refused ESA and been adeemed fit for work by ATOS, who are not even a medical firm they are a IT firm. I went to a medical with a supposed Medical Professional/Expert andd i explained to them i was born with a medical condition JOINT LAXITY which they had no clue to what it was they googled it on the computer and said yes we heard of that i explained how it affects me its basically to do with MOBILITY and other symtoms i was diognosed has a kid which are MYOPATHIC FACIES MUSCULOSKELETAL Problem (JOINT LAXITY RELATED I THINK) AND ASTHMA. No MEDICAL took place just a 5-10 minute talk and that was it. (THEY ASSESSED ME FROM THE TIME I WALKED IN THE BUILDING AND OUT). Its ABSOLOUTE NONSENSE I VERY ANGRY AND CONFUSED Don’t know where to go or who to turn to??????..

  104. The ballot box that’s where it can hurt those pushing these policies but, we all need to be united and a vote from us all to Ukip would be both damaging to this present coalition and a warning to Labour. I dont know if Ukip have much chance in the next election but, going off recent council polls it looks promising. My point being that even a big swing to an alternative party would be very worrying to the Big 3. I’m not keen on, nor do I have real confidence in any of the parties on offer however I do think that a shake up creates a change in attitudes and maybe then THEY will listen.

    • UKIP, are you having a larf? They’re right-wing, xenophobic, small-minded bigots. I would rather pull my teeth out.

      • Certainly not having a laugh, I stand to lose my house because of this obscenity. And besides your description of ukip doesn’t sound that far removed from the tories or labour. What I am suggesting is a tactical vote and that it has to be drastic to effect the desired result, ie a change in the other parties towards this issue. I suggest that atos are the new gestapo. Out of interest what would your suggestion be to help bring about change.

        • So how is voting UKIP going to make other parties change, pray? Oh yes, it’s going to make them lurch even more to the right than they already are by pandering to the immigrant-haters etc.
          I voted tactically in the last election because voting Labour was a wasted vote and the Liberals manifesto seemed more left than Labour’s. Bitterly regret it now that the Libs have got into bed with the Tories and fucked us all over.

  105. Most Atos medical reports are not worth the paper there rote on :
    On mine, an Atos Nurse took the exanimation, I had a ridged right big toe which had been broken I suffered from osteoarthritis of my shoulders and spine, arthritis in both hands, nerve damage to both arms, sciatica and spasms in my back ( musculoskeletal ) along with 3 disc bulges in my neck and two fractures of my 3rd and 4th lumbar, depression and I was on opiate pain program.
    The Atos nurse examined the wrong foot which I did explain to her –
    Her report to DWP – No disfigure and full movement
    We told her I had a carer (wife) for washing/dressing, cooking etc
    I explained I had already had 3 operations on my shoulders and was awaiting for them both to be done again (rota cuff) She asked me to raise both arms above my head – I said I was unable and it was very painful to move them and certainly not above my head.
    I explained I needed a walking stick but when out I used a quad wheel walking frame.
    Her reply to DWP – No reason given why he could not put hands above his head and that I had overstated my condition lol
    I asked if my wife could help me undress for the examination, the nurse replied – no your ok as you are –
    I was fully dressed even had my over coat on –
    I was helped on and off the examination table and my wife had to go into the other room to get my walking stick which the nurse had moved.
    Her reply to DWP : I observed the patient get dressed himself and walk and lean over to get his walking stick lol
    All lies, the whole examination was a scam the nurse was not trained enough and apart from her lies she did not understand any of my disability’s or examined me properly.= 0 points
    Whilst Atos works on a Target & Bonus scheme to meet the DWP / Government targets no person will be examined properly.
    They said I was fit for work ha ha ha – The unemployment office took one look at me after reading a letter from my doctor, said I could go straight back on ESA I said no thanks and me and my wife went on income support
    I have since had both operations which I said I needed, but my overall condition has worsened now.

  106. Why does the ec not do something about the governments treatment of benefit claimants?. These policies are against Human rights and charter of fundamental rights.

    • reply to mic michael
      SIMPLE ANSWER IS THEY DO, but you have to have exhausted all other court procedures in uk first up to supreme court.and human rights issues are not stand alone issues, for example disability discrimination is a breach of the equality act 2010 within these actions can include human rights issues ie articl 3 [if i remember correctly] which can be relevent to disability discrimination, the article concerns torture, humiliation ,degrading treatment etc, my case of disability discrimination issues against dwp included an issue of my disability which could cause an embarrassment to me, the dwpin 2006 was taken by me through the then disabilities discrimination act and i won the case only for the dwp to disregard this again and put me at risk again, the issue i just put in my last contibution is an appeal against n overpayment i have argued the appeal hearing should conclude at my home not an appeal centre 20 miles away asd thi would put me at risk of [ok toileting issues] the dwp failed to deal with this yet supported me by writing themselves to the court to ask for the home hearing, ie; expecting the court to adhere to the equality act yet they do not wish to themselves, uite a dicotomy would you say. any how i have gone on a bit i hope this answers some of your questions. i am noyt lawyer and my comments are from experience and study over many years and will help anyone if i can but any action aken as a result of my rablings are at your own risk, [ps have not been proven wrong yet]

  107. esa claimant +dla, never really had much trouble keeping these benefits [formerly incap ben] migrated straight onto esa, my son [bipolar ]left employ 2+years straight onto esa and non of us ever had medical examination. think DWP great? [not] the reason is that i have learned over 20 years to fight these guttless wonders. i am not a lawyer, not even an official advisor, yet have been very successful against dwp for my family and lots of others locally and although they are very vindictive and have tried intimidation, harassment 27+warnings since 2012 and have tried to claw back benefits due to alleged overpayment for not declaring thousands of pounds of savings [isnt this fraud?][I DID NOT HAVE BY THE WAY, WELL I DID BUT THEY GAVE IT TO ME AND HAD 12 MONTH DISREGARD, SHOWED THEM THE REMAINING AMOUNT BELOW THRESHOLD YET 15 YEARS ON THEY THOUGHT I DID NOT HAVE DOCS TO CHALLENGE THEM, I LET THEM THINK THIS UNTIL THEY WERE DEEP INTO AN APPEAL AND TO WITHDRAW IS HUMILIATING FOR THEM, ITS ALL ABOUT TIMING. they seem reluctant to send in fraud teams as i have suggested, of see me anywhere near a court recently these idiots have sent me personal data from another person including all her personal details plus intimate domestic details, i reported this to dwp and information commissioner, i have had the bbcand itv wanting to talk. the dwp ordered me not to speak with anyone or contact this person and send the data back immediately or i will be prosecuted.well my reply was to write to this person, and copy dwp on this,speak to bbc/itv and a newspapr, and issue a pre action claim in the high court for disability discrimination, harassment[civil remedy][police interested in causing problems for a fellow criminal org think not] intimidation etc etc etc. my benefits will be safe,i am disabled i suffer fibromyalgia, atrthritis and umteen other issues, TIP TO ANYONE WITH FIBRO, IT IS A NEUROLOGICAL DYSFUNCTIONOF THE BRAIN AND THE ATOS/DWP CONTRACT GIVES JUST A TENTATIVE INVITE TO A MEDICAL EXAMINATION CENTRE, ASK FOR DOMICILIARY ASSESSMENT, IF GP WILL WRITE A SIMPLE LETTER STATING NOT FIT TO TRAVEL DUE FOR EXAMPLE RISK OF FATIGUE AND DRIVING, OR ON PUBLIC TRANSPORT WHERE ONE CAN LOSE CONCIOUS AWARENESS ETC NEVER FAILED SINCE 1999 BETTER TO DIE STANDING UP THAN LIVE ON OUR KNEES.IF I CAN BE OF ANY HELP TO ANY ONE I WILL TRY, PLEASE UNDERSTAND I AM NOT A LAWYER AND IF YOU TAKE ANY ADVICE IT WILL BE AT YOUR OWN RISK I AM NOT INSURED, .,

  108. On the 6th September, the wonderful Sheila Gilmore forced an adjournment debate in the Commons, where Mark Hoban, DWP minister said
    “During the mandatory reconsideration phase, when someone is fit for work (in law, not in fact – eg found fit for work)* and not in work, they will be entitled to jobseeker’s allowance. I accept that someone seeking a reconsideration is likely to protest to the jobcentre that they are not fit for work. However, that does not rule out entitlement to jobseeker’s allowance. That is the case even where the claimant presents a fit note. Disability employment advisers, trained by specialist staff from the Department, will work with those who identify themselves as having a health condition or disability. They will take into account individual circumstances, including any advice given by the claimant’s doctor, and will consider placing limitations on a client’s availability or modifying their conditionality. There is nothing new about this.”
    Hansard 6 Sep 2013 : Column 660
    Although as a barefoot benefit advisor, I know of several cases where assessment rate has been refused to appellants of a wrong ESA decision, and in one case where the person was also refused JSA because she was carrying a MED3 “fit note”.

  109. This is disgusting!! How Re we supposed to pay our rent and feed ourselves whilst we wait on reconsideration?? Do we just move out and live on the streets till we get a decision?? If we are appealing an ATOS decision then we aren’t fit for work and can’t get JSA instead!!

  110. This coalition party along with Cameron, Smith, DWP and Atos do not give a f??? what happens to any body else other than themselves making lots of our cash = they have proven that soon as the first person committed suicide.
    They have not got a clue what they are doing – at this rate every company along with its owners will be dead or bankrupt in 5 years – they need to increase the min wage to keep inline, and shutdown all the job agency company’s which are actually killing real jobs, firms must invest in work and people giving them a future – by using agency workers people will never climb that ladder unless your very very lucky. It’s a pity the people don’t rise up but the government know and hope we never will because that would finish there top paid privileged positions –

  111. Hi ,I have been made homeless due to esa changing my address to thre local job center in southampton, it took me 3 months to get it changed back to my address at which time i was told ATOS had sent me a medical review appointment, which I never recieved,(they claim they sent it to my opriganl address in the 3 month period that they were sending my letters to the job center),and subsequently stoped my housing benafit.This of course left me unable to afford the rent and made me homeless.I have now been trying since november 2012 to get the address changed back to the job center in southampton,with no sucsess, I have made over 100 phone calls to them, written 8 letters with no reply (that i know of) Being completly maddened by this I decided to go to Newcastle were my post was being delivered ion North Shield, it was there that I was told that yes this is were the mail has been comming, I asked to find out were my mail had been going from there .I was told 1 I am not allowed to speak to anyone from the mail room 2 I was not allowed information as to were my mail was being sent.I was then put on the phone to make a complaint with a member of I.B(which I am not on) and was told I had been put through tot he wrong department, the gentleman on the other end of the phone was more than helpful by takeing my complaint tnone the less to try to assit me as much as possible.After the call I asked the lady I had been speaking too one more time if there was any avenue I could take to aquire the information I was after , I was told “NO”, nothing else just that.I then realised I had no way of getting through this mountain of burocracy,so I informed the lady that I had rewcorded the whole conversation , and then was esscorted off the premises by the security.To this day I cant change my damn address with them no matter what I do.Where the hell do I go? What do I do? You need to be a lawyer just to deal with these places and people, its beyond rediculas.

  112. You all don’t get it do you?
    Welcome to ‘Never-Been-Great Britain’. Always ruled by upper class, in-breeding toffs who only care about three things:- 1.THEIR kind. 2. THEIR parasitic royals. (who are the biggest shikers of them all) and finally 3. Money.
    And the british people keep on waving them little insignificant flags at the toffs on parade. When’s this shithole of a country going to wake-up and get out of the past?

  113. I went to an ATOS interview in April 2012, they rejected my claim in May 2012 & I then went without any money till October 2012 when (only after my local MP intervened) they reinstated benefit (at base rate of £61, 1/3rd less than I was getting). I then went for another ATOS interview in March 2013, & now, nearly 7 months on, I`ve still yet to hear a thing from them.

    I havent been able to survive on £61 per week & have had to borrow money constantly to live, despite this I`ve still managed to get into £1200 of rent arrears in the last 6 months (because I`ve had to constantly dip into my housing benefit to pay bills) & my landlord has given me a week to come up with the arrears.

    I have no hope of getting hold of that sort of money, I`m not from a rich family, my Father 65 has been laid off for the last month (& not been paid for 3 months, having worked there for 22 years at almost minimum wage) & my Mother, 68 still has to work (in a school).

    For the record I am 40, a father of 2 teenagers (seperated from their mother), worked for many years & put plenty into the “pot” since I started working at 15..

  114. I all the time uused to study piece of writing in news papers
    but nnow as I am a user of web therefore from now I am using net for posts, thanks tto web.

  115. Pingback: Inhuman policies. | Social Awareness

  116. Where is liberty when you need them, this must be a breach of basic human rights!


    A system that is producing A BRITISH UNDERCLASS

    Dear Mr Cameron,

    Firstly, I am not writing with any misconception of ever being heard or considered, but out of a brooding sense of misery, dejection and absolute frustration following my failed attempts at trying to necessitate a failing benefits system in a disastrous endeavour to avoid the onset of poverty. What began as a call for temporary financial support during nothing more than a transient period whilst working towards self-employment on a GOVERNMENT scheme, resulted in a demoralising and permanent incarceration within the ever increasing realms of a British under-class.
    The underclass are those unfortunate individuals who fall foul of the benefits system and quickly descend into abject poverty. They have no voice, no value and no hope. Ordinary, decent individuals, whose lives are turned upside down by a system that fails them because while it is managed by humans, it does not allow room for human error or discretion. It is a system that allows one group of people to sit in judgement over another – without question. A system that allows its decisions makers 6 whole months to determine whether an error in judgement has been made whilst providing nothing in its place in the meantime; no financial support, and no information. A system that adds court costs onto already insurmountable debts, debts created by that very same system. It then uses its powers to bully and threaten with legal action and bailiffs, beating out of its victim any last remaining trace of confidence, energy or hope. It leaves the unfortunate individuals who become trapped beneath society, caught in a downward spiral, with nowhere to turn, no means of escape, worried and exhausted, destined to be homeless, hopeless and depleted; We, Mr Cameron, are Your British underclass!
    The current benefits system does not work.
    This system produces a British Underclass from which there is no means of escape.
    Furthermore, this system is manned entirely by individuals whose purpose it appears is to guarantee this system can never work, no doubt they are dominated by targets and directives designed to eradicate common sense whilst concentrating priorities on saving You; the British government, money – at ANY cost, at ALL costs and the costs are immense.

    To be clear. I actively promote the belief that ALL individuals in this country who are capable of work, MUST work in order to benefit both the individual themselves and society as a whole, and I believe the majority of people who can, do or at least, try their best to. Both Mr Clegg and you yourself, have heard from me on several occasions over the past few years, as did Mr Brown before you, frustrated by my incessant struggle to promote my business to an unresponsive audience, despite its continued success in providing support for the long term unemployed and individuals with various barriers to employment. As explained in previous correspondences, my skill is in inspiring & motivating individuals, not only into work (often following lengthy periods of unemployment), but I endeavour to increase their confidence, esteem, employability skills and overall quality of life and that of their families in order that they are able to enjoy a permanent change in their circumstances. It is a well-intentioned pursuit, developed over many years and that, I, a humanistic psychologist, ironically have operated in conjunction with the JCP. I resolved to deliver this FREE OF CHARGE, as I was employed elsewhere and because there are no funds available for programmes of this nature, or so I am told! An incomprehensible contradiction given money has been available through the JCP in order for these individuals to be categorised as being ‘long term unemployed’
    Being candid, I do not, and have never held the opinion that the benefit system should be tolerated as a beanbag for those who cannot trouble themselves to find work but who instead prefer to idle their time relying on the hard graft of others, everyone suffers when this becomes the case. That said, contrary to the observed judgements of many who are employed by the DWP, I have encountered very few degenerates in my time, the majority of individuals, myself included do not wish to undergo the indignity and humiliation that is a compulsory prerequisite for signing on, but who instead find ourselves in the unfortunate position of having no other choices available at that point in time. Please do not underestimate how utterly debasing this experience can be. The inauguration into this defective system that I sincerely hope you and yours are never unfortunate enough to have to encounter, requires you wait to be questioned publicly by a superior body accompanied by a security guard, from behind a lectern – befitting for the sermon that will commence. It is extremely impersonal and detached. It is this superior individual’s job to initially determine whether A) you are who you say you are! and B) you are neither too many minutes early, (which results in being rebuked and turned away) or too many minutes late (which results in being rebuked and turned away).
    This embarrassing introduction ranks as being the best part of the overall tick box encounter that sees you shamefully plead your case to an unsympathetic mediator, whilst attempting to access just enough money to keep a roof over your head and legally secure yourself a sufficient quantity of reduced priced super-noodles in order to survive the week; (super-noodles are the preferred provision of the underclasses. While the packaging is undoubtedly more nutritious than its contents, they prove extremely cheap to prepare, easily hydrated without enduring the premium costs of an electric oven).

    (to be cont..)

  118. Pingback: Whisper words of wisdom, Maccabee | Gabrielquotes

  119. why hasn,t someone took it to eec

  120. My brother allready won appeals,now hesback around as they dont leave it,if we win appeals they jut start all over again-this time hes getting no money untill they decide if he can apeal,,yet they allready know he cannot work as may drop dead any momemt,now hes beging food off frends,and with his narrow arteries ect ect its not doing him any good,our sister is having keemo for her authitus which all of us have,and unlike my bro,i have tablets or i die,so i will die on natonal tv when my time comes,yes my appeal will be soon,scored no pionts with twisted hands hospital shoes,virtigo,graves disease,sleeping 100 hours a week,heart murmore,,ect ect ect,,,and a 1st medical that they said np never again pass in 1992 not taken into acount anymore,,,, im eally mad about my brother,more than myself serpose as i have np dying,but i feel i want to shout to the world die on tv or mybe i should go on a rampage and kill them all,,this is what people will be doing soon,,stu

    • What you need to do Stu is something like Dale Creegon did… eg.
      Set your gas cooker on but do not light it… dial 999 ask for the Police emergency and say you are being attacked by a bunch of heroin dealing yardies with guns in your flat/house …. when the plod crap TWAT team arrives and kicks in your door (although half the time it’s the neighbours place they hit by mistake) click your lighter and blow the lot of them to kingdom come… Sieg heil IDS..

  121. if Dwp i mean goverment not belive diable people whom they can belive MRI report from hospital Consultant aurthopadic consultant or surgeon those who doing thousands operations GP reports they are no lier that means DWP and ATOS they just excuse and playing guessing game to save 20%on disable people money which they are genuinely entitled Goverment think people are stupid disability orgnisation suppose to take very seriously i mean take advice from lawyer or european court DWP is playing politics after judge gave 42% won Tribunal case thats why goverment close LEGAL AID we living 7th richest country in the world instead of where growth will come present or future Goverment constrade wrong direction no sympathy they not putting more tax on rich people if rich pety is for rich people not for poor disablepeople than why TORY not sople pay more tax on their millions of pound profit do not forget TORY partopping all benefits please some lawyer or RMT trade union to help disable people enough is enough there is alternative to defit to dwp i mean goverment please constantly give your comments suggestion sorry about spelling mistake if you canntot do anything now it will be to late and goverment use his dictatorship because they not belive gp consultant MRI reports

    • Received the dwp defence against my claim on discrimination, it consists mainly on having my claim struck out on technicalities and not facing the issues. However the most disturbing and most revealing is that while i am not a lawyer, experienced in litigation [as no funding available because of our poor status and underclass] and that i have a cognitive dysfunction in presentation and content of my written and spoken word [this is every word written has to be concentrated on and is mentally/physically exhausting]the dwp as defendants have actually stated that they are embarrassed by my dysfunction and mock my impairments.This in court papers how blatant are they, and most worrying is how emboldened are they?

  122. im going to die on tv ,if my apeal fails (next week or so ) yes die in protest and the media will cover it as im not talking suiside,im handing back life threatening tables in protest if i fail,,the 2004 metal capasity act says we have the right to refuse treatment,when all disabled found fit start doing this things will change,we are either fit or not they cannot have it both ways,or we are losing our rights as disabled people,thanksfully the media wont cover suiside but will policital protests,,,im stoping my tablets several days before i go just to take it to the line,,,you wonder why,?,,try a life on less than£100 a week now only £71 and to search for work and get sanctioned like 800k last year for anythin like missing an apiontment we didant know about (say sent letter and didant)*or being 2min late on mornin apointments i cannot make yet will have no exsucuse when my rights as a disabled person are gone,,, had a year to think about this = looking forward to meeting the two beatles that are dead 🙂

  123. I have just recieved my letter stating that i have been on ESA for 365 days and as such my money will be stopped, although as my condition is no were near as bad as some of the people on here, i do feel i am able to work, even if the doctors have been telling me for years that i am not, and i am finding myself in a wierd situation because ever since i have been on ESA i have been applying for jobs, and going to every course that has been made available for me, all my tutors say that i should be able to find work easily, with my attitude and skill set would make a great employee to any organisation, but unfortunatly no employer seems to think that giving me a chance is a good idea, (apart from un-lawfull employers, seriously how many people have been approached to mule drugs from one county to the other it is either a trap set by the government or i have a realy bad face that seems to attract drug dealers…) i have a 2 year old daughter and “live” with her mother. Should i bother trying to get Job Seekers which i will not be entitled to as my daughters mother is classed as my partner (who is in full time employment) because we have been cohabiting since our daughter has been born, to try and give her a decent start in life, or should i continue trying to find a lawfull job on no money, or shall i run the risk of getting caught running drugs around and having enough to live on whilst i await getting a normal job. seriously i am torn i never thought that i would be reduced to considering anything so drastic but it is what it is. SERIOUSLY dont know if this is the right place for this, it did start off trying to find advice but as i kept wrighting more it just wouldnt stop, delete this if it is the wrong place just glad to get this off my chest.

    • I know what you mean brother… I am in a similar situation and I was thinking along the lines of becoming a hit man… my first targets will be Duncan Smith and Cameron… I’ll do them for free!

  124. Colin Edwin Pulman

    I was getting incapacity benefit, up to 1st December 2013. I was held by Philippines court, by “hold departure order” & could NOT return to UK, until case against me was resolved. Charge was withdrawn 22nd Feb 2013. I returned to UK on 27th March 2013. On 27th June 2013, I applied for ESA & PIP. Despite 100,s of phone calls to ESA, I still have NO ATOS assessment date. I still only get 71.70 a week esa, & wait for ATOS!

  125. hi could someone please tell me how long the mandatory decision takes and then if you are put straight back on esa if they disagree with you at alower rate till you await the appeal thanks

  126. Pingback: Disagree With An Atos Decision? Then Starve Says DWP »

  127. Is there anything any of us can really do?? My son broke his hip when he was 15 after several operations and severe nerve damage later, he is 23 now and is in constant suffering has to take a cocktail of drugs (tramadol and morphine) he has recently had chilli treatment on his leg which his consultant told him would not work – it didn’t his final option is to have a pacemaker fitted to his spine, which he is waiting to have, he was working a few years ago but because his hip just gives way at any given time, he fell down the stairs at work and was ‘finished’ due to health reasons, his medication causes him severe side effects, he can’t sleep, cant’ eat, throws up, feels dizzy, sweats, his whole body itches, not to mention the damage this is doing to his liver, he was claiming ESA at the higher level, which went some way to helping him cope with his condition…. he had an assesment by ATOS last week, he scorde NIL points!! I mean ZERO and the reason they gave him was that he does have mobility, he is coherant, he can tie his own shoelace and raise his arms above his head, without ‘looking’ like he is in any pain FFS!! the fact that he threw up as soon as he came out of the assesment doesn’t actually matter, the fact that he’d been up half the night sweating and shivering doesn’t matter either, they have said that just because he is taking medication it doesn’t mean he can’t sit at a desk for half an hour then go and have a lie down, then do another half an hours work…… what planet are these people on?!? no wemployer will touch him whilst he’s on this medication he’s a risk to himself and their business, but apparently that doesn’t matter either, so now he has to claim job seekers allowance, but he’s only entitled to £20 per week because his pregnant girlfriend works 16 hours per week at the co-op, it would cost him almost £20 per fornight to get a taxi to and from the job centre to sign on, he doesn’t know from one day to the next what he is going to feel like when he wakes up, he takes 60mg of morphine a day prescribed which is doube the normal dose, he’s a young man who’s life has been ruined by an accident he had whilst playing rugby for his school and he’s been thrown on the shit heap of life and told ‘tough’ he has been informed that as soon as he goes in hospital for his spinal operation he can then go back on ESA in the meantime he has to look for a job…… Good luck with that son have a nice life!!

  128. Hello.

    I am writing on behalf of my Step dad.
    He has been diagnosed with Fibromylaga (FMS) (i know it’s not spelt correctly) along with Chronic pain syndrome and Chronic Pain Fatigue, with Arthritis in his spine and some other conditions connected to the FMS. If that’s not bad enough he was involved in a work place accident in which a lorry reversed (with out its beeping noises) towards where he was bent over, busy working away as a fabricator and hit him right in the middle of his lower back on his spine this was 5 years ago this November. anyway he has been to many a medical assessment and many a tribunal all without any success and now the wonderful people at ATOS and DWP are telling him he HAS to sign on and actively look for work and prove he is looking for work but while he does this he will NOT receive any benefits (he has not been receiving anything this whole time). No employer would consider employing him with the amount of medication he is on including Morphine (as he only takes it occasionally when he needs it ATOS will not accept it as enough for DLA). His own Doctor has said there is No way he can go back to work but ATOS will not accept his letter stating this.
    My question is where do we go from here. the stress is bringing on severe Migraines and making his pain worse, flaring up the FMS CPS and CPF.

  129. Pingback: A Historical Grasp | A Wilderness of Peace

  130. Elizabeth Reid

    Im a 55yr old of 1 teenager who is stil at school. My esa has stopped due to atos. Ive been turned down for jsa today as doctor says om unfit for work. Ive no money for food electric or my debts paod by direct debit. Dont know what to do as no money coming in and its makong me poorly as I have severe stress and anxiety and take panic attacks. Sorry for going on a bit.

    • Elizabeth, perhaps you could try for Income Support or at least see if you are eligible? Very sorry that you’re being treated in this vicious way.

      • Elizabeth Reid

        I have been told I cant get incomesupport. My doctors certificate says Im unfit but jsa advisor stated I have to be or cant claim. My daughter is going to school doing exams worrying where our nxt meal is coming from and im at my wits end. Never mind ive no tears left so im not sleeping and I feel so sick with worry. Thank you

  131. Elizabeth Reid

    I am waiting for mandatory assessment and jsa have turned me down as my doctor has declared me unfit for work what can I do as bills stacking up and need food and heating and money for rent etc but no benefit coming in except £20-30p for child benefit

  132. Hey there, I think your site might be having browser compatibility issues.
    When I look at your website in Ie, it looks fine but when opening
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  133. Pretty! This was an extremely wonderful post. Many thanks for providing this information.


    Does anyone know where I can find a blank “work Form” to fill out?

  135. hi this is a nifty site that you’ve, thank you 4 sharing it with us.

  136. mmmm ian Duncan ( Lucifer ) smith!!!! he is the loathsome creature who forces the sick and disabled to work or starves those who resist and appeal his diabolical work tests.
    I was shot in the head then had my face smashed to pieces.
    I suffer from pstd, panic attacks, memory loss and anxiety attacks all documented with my gp. I have seen several (EXPERTS) IN THE FIELS OF MENTAL HEALTH AND ALL have said due to my mental heath I AM UNFIT TO WORK!!.
    but the dwp hand picked hench man ” who by the way was just a gp tells me im fine im ok . the test was ” question, can I ans the phone I answered well yes . question, can I open a letter , I answered yes, question can I pay a bill, answered yes . all the questions were totally irrelevant . never once was I asked how I felt or how I live each day.

    I failed the test NO POINTS AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

    this government hate the unemployed and despise the sick and disabled.
    this bunch of MILLIONARES want to starve out the poorest in our society and kill off the disabled.
    anyone wit less than £100.000 in the bank and is 100% fit is rejected by this evil government.

    we are indeed without a doubt going back in time to the Victorian days when the poor were left destitute , the sick and disabled begged in the streets and the poor lived on turnips!!.

    we do mot have to take this treatment, we do not have just take what they say. we all need to stand up and say to this government ENOUGH IS ENOUGH you cannot and will not do this to us anymore, and take back our county!.

  137. Andy Shagman Mfi


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