The Civil Service Rank & File Network (CSRF) has called for action aimed at Jobcentre Plus in the week beginning the 5 August.
“In the week commencing 5 August we encourage civil servants to work with claimants and others who oppose austerity in your area.
• Hold workplace meetings to discuss the type of action needed to win.
• Stage pickets outside of the Jobcentre to bring workers and claimants together in opposition to the government.
• Occupy the Jobcentre and bring business to a halt for as long as you practically can.
The action taken by Edinburgh Coalition Against Poverty against Leith Jobcentre is a brilliant example of the kind of protest we are advocating.
CSRF is a network for civil servants who want to resist the government’s attacks on our terms and conditions. With PCS where they put up a fight, without them where they won’t!”
More details on their website at: http://csrfnetwork.wordpress.com/2013/07/14/jobcentre-plus-week-of-action-5-9-august/
Facebook event at: https://www.facebook.com/events/413358982115310/
Please spread the word.
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the void 
I would have thought that if Civil Servants want ‘to work with claimants and others who oppose austerity’ etc., etc., then the first course of action they could consider is to refuse to sanction anybody!!!
hear hear max
yes i agree . AND WHY HAVE THEY WAITED UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT ARE ON HOLIDAY WHAT ARE THEY AFRAID OF ?
A good start, but this stubborn government, convinced that it is right, will take not the slightest bit of notice of such limited action.
What is really needed is not half day strikes; one day strikes, demos and letters to the Daily Mirror or The Guardian.
Only a full, lengthy general strike, will get any attention from this government.
When the unions finally get their courage back, it will be a day to put the flags out.
hear hear mike.
I consider it’s our job – those of us reading these blogs, posting and taking an active interest – to to get the message out to the public and union members that it can be any ones fate to end up on benefits. A part of getting the courage back is finding out there is an injustice that touches us all that it is in their own good, and for the sake of our society that it must be stopped. It is a mass movement already but we do need to be joined up. We hear from the Boycott Workfare demos. even a couple of people telling the truth can have a massive response from the public, with customers deciding to boycott a store and join the picket line. While my expectations of the politicians – especially the turn-coat Labour MPs – have reached an all=-time low, at the same time I sense there are enough decent people in the country to force the government to change. Or maybe to persuade the Liberals to do one last decent thing, and dissolve the coalition.
What about pointing out to the waged that if benefits are removed entirely, which is the path the ConDems are heading down, they will lose the tax credits they rely on to top up their minimum wage?
the slogan’s are very simple…”end conditionality now”….demand real well paid jobs and skills training that actually leads to work, not being work readied, without a true job description, of a real job to be work readied for ..”stop blaming the victim”,…full pay whilst training, for job, with full job description..a fully paid skills assessment, based on ones passion for a particular type of work…”end people warehousing”..”we are not stock, nor fodder”…”listen to me, i know what is good for me”…et al..
I like it …..
Hopefully the CSRF is the start of something a lot bigger, and it does give hope as it’s a grassroots group of civil servants. It won’t send shockwaves through the government, that will take time. Hovever, many other ordinary trades union members, those members of mainstream ‘sell-out’ unions equally hacked off with their union leadership will be watching.
Whatever our misgivings about civil servants, we need to show our support of those civil servants who are prepared to take a stand, they are fellow workers.
I’m sure that there are JCP staff that are genuinely nasty pieces of work, as equally I am sure that there are JCP staff who are deeply opposed to what they are expected to do, and then there are perhaps the majority who could be persuaded one way or another, or who would favour this kind of action if they were sure of support.
A general strike would be great, but it just isn’t going to happen any time soon. For one thing I doubt that any but the biggest unions could afford to pay strike pay, and that would require approval from their leadership.(And there would also be all kinds of shit about legality etc.) We all know what that means, as the mainstream trade union leadership are our enemies, in cahoots with whatever government is in power.
This is why is even more important that we show our support to this action, which to say the least, is probably at best only borderline ‘legal’. (Not that I personally give a damn about the legality of it, but this kind of action is pretty clearly opposing government policy, and is therefore ‘political’.)
I hope the CSRF do succeed and that the turn out of workers, both employed and unemployed to support them is huge. We need it to succeed, as it could change the leadership of one of the most important mainstream trades unions.
A general strike not happening ‘soon’ must be the government’s prayer right now. ‘legality’ is nothing to do with it, as when the reality dawns that the power and the government of this country is with the people, not a bunch of millionnaires who got just 23% of the vote at the last election, legality is lost in the wind. And a general strike need not last too long, so that financial hardship is experience.
Sibry, I haven’t seen too much evidence of ‘JCP staff who are deeply opposed to what they are expected to do’ handing in their resignations(?)
Reblogged this on kickingthecat.
I’m sorry folks, but this is all complete and utter bollocks! There is absolutely no way on this earth that any civil servant wants to ‘unite’ with claimants in opposition to the government. What a load of complete rot. They do not give a dried dog shit about claimants!! They are just whingeing that they think don’t get paid enough for being vindictive and incompetent bastards!!
Will the JCP sanction the benefits of all people attending?
Reblogged this on HUMAN RIGHTS & POLITICAL JOURNAL and commented:
In Solidarity!
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they treat us like shit on there shoes sanction us then want us to hold hands,, no chance
Absolutely right frost, what a load of arseholes!
I wouldn’t piss in a JCP worker’s ear if their head was on fire….and if I see anyone from the BDC (not that you would ever know the faceless, vindictive, incompetent…but in work, TWATS!!) protesting when I sign on (if I am still doing so) I will have to be restrained from punching their fucking lights out!
It is not just Jobcentre workers in the PCS and the CSRF – this might be an attempt from other parts of the union and those in the DWP who do support claimants to try and push things in another direction, they deserve a lot of credit for trying
If you support the right to belong to a Union, or you are a union member, it is our duty to support our own. They may be front office or back office.
They may be late to join us, they may have needed the personal threat of conditionality to hit home, and make them reflect on their own roles,, but as long as we are united on the same issues I will happily give my support.
Every place I worked there was probably a 40% rate of being just awful people, sociopaths, liars, bullies, and the plain old lazy and ambitious. They generally didn’t join the union, and were openly hostile to the union (but still took the pay rises negotiated.) I would think the staff at DWP are much the same, with the same high chance of having a sociopath in the main management post. How are people or organisations including unions to feel about sticking their heads up and joining the campaign’s if it seems that this community is hostile? Let’s save the anger for the Bullindon Boys. And ed&ed.
JV, if anyone has received any ‘support,’ as opposed to being subjected to a totally degrading and punitive regime, by any members of these unions, then please enlighten us regarding your experience. I must say that I haven’t, and I know of absolutely no other person who has.
And, as you say, it’s not just JC workers that are involved in all of this crap……but also the utterly incompetent bastards at the BDCs who do not even deserve to be in a job!
Hand in your notice Johnny, you’ve lost the fucking plot. Turncoat!
get to fuck. there’s PCS members working in the tax office, or administering pensions and all kinds of roles. if you think when some of those workers are prepared to stand up and support claimants we should abuse them and tell them to fuck off then you’re only interested in losing.
I’m not saying abuse them! All I’m saying is don’t support them.
All they want is more support to achieve their own ends, not ours. Once that’s done they’ll be back to sanctioning as if nothing happened. Do you think it’s pure coincidence that they only start bleating when the shoe’s on the other foot, i.e. when 40% of their colleagues will be under the same regime as us?
You don’t strike me as a naive person – or at least you didn’t until now!
Well said Lucozade, absolutely 100% spot on!
hear hear lucozade
how exactly does someone who works in the tax office or for the coastguard play a role in sanctioning benefits?
JV, do you really think that any coastguard or tax office employees are going to protesting outside JC+ offices?
In the case of HMRC I happen to know they are.
As an x DHSS DWP worker a lot of the staff were nasty right wing tories who enjoyed making peoples lives as miserable as possible the picket line crossing slime balls who took every pay rise negotiated by the union who will get their comeuppance we would make their lives at work as miserable as they made the poor,s !
Yes dbailey, it always amazes me how such nasty right wing tory bastards are seemingly quite comfortable with themselves being employed in the public sector which they are supposed to hate so much! Hypocritical twats!
I agree with most of the comments here. Jobcentre staff on the whole won’t want to risk losing their jobs. Even the decent ones will be too scared in case they end up on the receiving end.
I can’t imagine jobcentre staff standing alongside the unemployed who they have been openly bullying especially the post work programme claimants.
Absolutely right Rob, it’s just bollocks….are the accused, bullied and persecuted now supposed to hold hands with the fucking shitbags who have been dishing out this crap to claimants for year upon year (and getting paid for it….and receiving WTC!!!)…..I think not!
Look, politics should not come into this.
Jobcentre staff have had a negative view of claimants under both Labour and the Coalition. The difference is the ability to impose sanctions.
Of course there are right wing Jobcentre staff just as there are right wing claimants (of which I am one). Of course the opposite is also true.
However, state aid to bankers (especially for failure) and state punishment of jobless people go against the ideas of a free market and civil liberties.
The Jobcentre workers are on the side of punishing claimants, regardless of the party in government. They are the ones who need to be targeted if you are going to picket Jobcentres.
Interesting to see a response from a ‘right wing claimant’…does that mean that you’re not permanently stigmatised as a ‘work shy scrounger’? I might try that one……but I really, really couldn’t vote for this bunch of complete and utter cunts!!! Did you???
Yes, how strange? a right wing claimant. Have you had an accident or any disabilities John Smith? Why are you claiming at the moment? Are you afraid of the Gov? They can be a bit frightening, and oppressive. I do not think its good to have health problems in 2013 and claiming benefits do you? Do you think the Atos assessment is fair as well?
john smith…
they are, right wing policies, from right wing governments being evoked, against the benefit entitled, and are right wing politics…our economy is not free, but being directed in an idealogical manner to favour those with portfolio..civil liberties are crushed and being crushed even further..my slogan is “end conditionality now, we all have a right to decent, health care, shelter, food, and clothes”..these are basic human rights…
ps johnsmith
and they are using our taxpayers money against us to do it!
Off topic JV are you going to follow mIke sivier who has just printed a book about his blog vox political, it would make interesting reading?
I don’t think so, people can read it here can’t they. Maybe if Mike sells loads of copies I’ll reconsider 😉
Max, I’d like to try to address a couple of the points you have made. As someone who works within a Benefit Centre I see first hand what working in one of these places is like and also the attitudes of some of the staff.
There are many who feel uncomfortable about their roles. Some, including myself, have raised concerns about current practices. We do not agree with the policies we are expected to implement on behalf of IDS, Hoban, Freud et al. (Feel free to piss in their ears, heads on fire or not)! The lies that have been told to promote JSA Online, tougher conditionality and harsher sanctions for job seekers etc. However, please believe me that there ARE JCP and BC workers who are trying to do their best for claimants despite the ever increasing targets (oh but targets don’t exist, do they)? and ever increasing workloads, poor training, IT and infrastructure and many ‘yes-men/women’ in middle management who just want an easy life and hide problems and issues from their superiors.
Conversely you are also correct about the attitudes of other staff. There really are some nasty individuals who have no compassion. I hear them telephone claimants to sort out payments that are late and then as soon as they put the phone down say things like “Now go and get a job, I’ve just given you some free money”! I too feel like punching these people.
As an insider can you say what methods are used to hide the fact that there are targets?
Thanks for the comment Workingontheinside. It’s interesting to get an insight which confirms what we all knew anyway. Now can you let us have the inside knowledge on those targets? I’ve asked all the advisors that I’ve ever seen at the JC+, and they all categorically deny that any targets exist.
When Maggie destroyed the Miners union politicians learned that they could safely ignore public opinion, no matter how strongly people feel about something they can’t sustain the outrage, politicians just have to wait. The time to object is 2015, the only time they have to listen to us because we can cost them their jobs. Don’t believe the “safe seat” falacy, any MP can lose their seat if enough people vote against them. In 2/3 of seats the non voters outnumber the people who voted for the winner, in all but two seats the non voters are more than the majority gained by the winner, and even in these two seats, it’s still our votes whic determine the winner
Absolutely right, None of the above. We need a few more ‘Portillo moments’ in 2015 (or preferably before, but I can’t see that happening). I still remember seeing that declaration live on TV, and thinking ‘OK, time for bed’!
I should know, but what declaration?
When Portillo was ousted from what must have appeared to be a safe seat (which is why he was there) in 1997. The declaration of votes cast was made at something like 3 o’clock in the morning. His face was a picture!!
I quite like Portillo now, but he was an utter arsehole as a politician. But still infinitely preferable to IDS, Hoban, Grayling etc., etc,…..this list is endless!!
who do you replace the portillo types with, the blairites? UKIP?
Fair comment Guy Fawkes………..I would say ‘God help us’, if I wasn’t an atheist!
How about independents, there were over 300 of us in the last election, we mainly live where we stand, we mainly vow to listen to the electorate, we mainly think of ways of doing things differently, let’s face it, the way we do things now isn’t working out particularly well
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“This week, Labour attacked Conservative plans from the right, arguing that they were too soft on welfare. Labour’s Liam Byrne denounced the cap for not being hard enough because it would not affect those with very large families and would do nothing to prevent those “living a life on welfare.””
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/07/20/welf-j20.html
I work for a Jobcentre, and simply anyone who resists orders that come from above is either put on a PIP (performance improvement plan) or is moved on, like my manager who refused to play ball when it came to the targets, which alot of them go against the Law and the Jobseekers Act. Morale is at an all time low. Claimants are been seen weekly so this has doubled our work load whilst being understaffed and under trained as it is. And the targets are a VERY REAL thing, no matter how much IDS tries to plead ignorance. We are constantly being threatened with our jobs… So if you are a claimant make it easier for yourself and read your Jobseekers Agreement and just do exactly what it says on there!! If not, you WILL get sanctioned. That is the reality of it. I will give one piece of advice to those who have previous been sanctioned APPEAL.. do not get a reconsideration… APPEAL. This could take upto a year, but it goes to a tribunal and the law is used not ignored like it is by Decision Makers who are TOLD to ignore it.
Blah could you explain what the targets are and how they are covered up, as it were, to avoid openly calling them targets. This would be really useful coming from an insider.
I am currently engaged with my Jobcentre about this very subject and any info you can give would be appreciated. Particularly if there are any key words or insider jargon related to targets, that sort of stuff.
Lucozade, one of the key words/phrases is ‘off-flow’, the meaning of which is hopefully fairly obvious. And the easiest way for DWP staff to ‘improve off-flow delivery’ is…….(answers on a post card, please!)
Offlows are getting people off the books..
But as for actual targets… They keep it under wraps now because they no longer issue anything on paper or by email… everything is done verbally since the leaks.. They arnt called targets anymore either, they call them ‘Minimum Expectations’… And we are specifically told not to tell the public they exist. And yes, there are league tables, basically they want to get people off the books by any means necessary. It boarders on harassment. Trust me, they know there are no jobs! They know damn well they cant get people off the books quick enough so thats why theres the big push on sanctions! Plus, in the process we’ll make it such a horrible experience that people end up signing off because of the constant harrassment!
The big ones at the moment are ASE’s and RE’s. Actively Seeking Employment and Refusal of Employment. These are the ones that theyre having a big push on. Every jobcentre has different ‘minimum expectations’ but 10 ASE’s per month per member of staff is pretty standard now.
Thanks blah. Do advisers have any of this formalised in their PIPs? If so how would it be worded to avoid being classed as a target?
Just google ‘DWP off flow’…..you will unearth a mountain of (often incomprehensible) shit about it, including letters from senior staff instructing that off flow has to be increased or they will be subject to PIP (ah, bless!). The letters spell out how this can be acheived, citing ‘easy’ targets, e.g. those with poor standards of English, people whose time may be taken looking after kids etc., etc. It is (almost) beyond belief, and totally disgusting!!
Blah, I’m sure we all realise that JC+ and other DWP staff are subject to performance requirements (as are most employees in any job), but that is not an excuse for sheer incompetence and treating people like dog shit!
I do not condone treating anyone like crap, and i am not defending it at all, im only trying to make you understand how bad it actually is to work there. You have 5 minutes per claimant and are seeing 50+ a day, half of them taking out their crap on you (which youre against anyways and have no control over) plus getting shat on my management, so your tolerance becomes pretty low! Yes, some people who work there are f*cking nazis mainly because they become completely desensitised… but alot of the folk are good people who genuinely cannot wait to get out of there.
And yes, everyone is subject to performance requirements, but perhaps not to the extent we do for the low pay and the crap we get from all directions. Also, alot of the requirements we are meant to be meeting are plain against the law!
Blah,
We all know what’s going on!. My question is…Why is your union not putting a stop to it!!!, Answer…The union leaders are really in bed with the government, eyes on a seat in the House of Lords is their only concern, its happened time after time.
If you think it’s bad to work there, then think what it’s like to be treated like utter shit every time you are required to attend an appointment!
And if what you are required to do is against the law then don’t do it!!!!! You cannot be ordered to do something that is illegal!! And if there’s so many ‘workers’ that are in such a hurry to get out of there, there is one very rapid solution for them…..FUCKING RESIGN!!!!
Ive been on the other side.. Alot of us who work there have. I know exactly what its like, so do not patronise me, your ignorance is exactly what rubs us up the wrong way, and may or may not make JCP staff treat you like shit. I wonder, do you go into the JCp with that attitude and then whine about being treated like shit?
And yeah, when you have mortgage and kids resigning would be the best thing to do right?… Grow the fuck up.
I do not attend the Job Centre with any sort of ‘attitude’, or the BDC (because you can’t!), but what I am constantly challenged by is a bunch of incompetents who want to trip me up at every turn. They haven’t quite managed it yet….but bloody hell, they do try really hard! And less of the bollocks about it being such hard work….whenever I attend the JC+ most of the advisors are standing around gassing……that’s if they haven’t phoned in ill (as mine did three times in the last eight weeks!)
Well, Blah why don’t you stick your head above the parapet & refuse to sanction anyone, remember it’s other people’s lives you’re playing with. Leaving someone with no money, for weeks, even months isn’t a game, isn’t going to make a job materialise for the person concerned, when, as you say,even your bosses accept the the fact that there aren’t any jobs out there.
It only takes one or two principled indiviuals to make a stand for a rotten edifice, such as Jokecentre Plus to come tumbling down
Blah
I put in appeal forms and they went straight into the bin, when I asked when my appeal was coming up because I had been sanctioned and was destitute, they said you have had your reply from a decision maker, I could not get legal representation to fight what the dwp were doing with legitimate appeals against the system and I could not get a hardship payment, they are pure bastards that work at our dwp.
Ref:DWP staff. I am having nightmares with an evil woman straight out of the female SS. She even suggested I lie about my age on CVs! I am early 50s. I have to see her every two weeks. Are there any sensible methods for dealing with wicked DWP staff.
Covertly record every meeting and report her directly to the district manager – don’t go through the Jobcentre manager.
You should be able to report wicked dwp staff to your mp but if they are anything like mine they would rather turn on you than fight your corner.
Send a copy and a covering note to your MP/friedly journalist as a ‘for your informaton’ which ensures that your complaint won’t be ‘overlooked. That kind of strategy can have some amazing results, though the first time you do that you may have to wait as they may not think you’re serious, but trust me, once civil servants realise that you mean business you will be taken seriously. It’s a pain in the arse, and bureaucratic, but it does work.
Greyhoundsmith, don’t put your age (or date of birth, of course!) on your CV, then you won’t have to lie about it. At our age (I’m 58 btw) it is totally counter-productive and unnecessary, though obviously the issue can’t be avoided if an application form is involved.
Unfortunately it’s easy to work out your rough age from the date of your first job and/or your school/college dates.
Of course that’s right Lucozade. I wonder whether greyhoundsmith’s advisor would try to coerce them into lieing about that too! It’s just disgraceful!
There is actually no requirement to put your age or your date of birth on any job application as that would leave you open to discrimination on grounds of your age, which was outlawed by the Age Discrimination Act. Similarly, the advice I’ve followed for years with job applications is to only put my work history for the past decade, as the vast majority of employers only want to know that, and no more.
Current advice, (according to my Workfare advisor) is to tailor CV for specific jobs, so only put on it what is relevant for the job you’re applying for, again, no need for date of birth or age on a CV.
Youre entitled to see someone else, all you have to do is voice your concerns to a manager.
Saying something like “We seem to have a personality clash”, (or similar wording – “don’t seem able connect and i’m not sure it’s the most constructive/helpful for me to have this adviser” has worked in the past -after asking about changing to another ‘adviser’ in a previous time of signing a few years back (was woefully unaware then of the sanctions regime, but still felt it wasn’t ‘in my best interests’ not to do something) – so trusting your instincts probably a good idea …
More than one ‘misunderstanding/miscommunication’ took place – explained (the most recent and depressing/aggravating) example ?to section/jcp manager? and was straight away put with another – no further discussion/explanation required (thankfully). It might have been the manager who said ‘personality clash’ first thinking back – after hearing about potentially detrimental, confused & confusing, suspect misinformation given. (It must be far easier to use this, at their end, than saying – or putting on record, “adviser was taking liberties/making mistake(s) and claimant asked to be moved …”. Whether anything is different process-wise now/and possible for different managers’ responses to vary etc – but have kept glimmer of light in reserve should push ever comes to shove again.
Decoded:- “We disagree about almost everything and it’s probably just a question of how long before this ‘adviser’ opts to exercise their power over me/play god with my (woefully ineffectual already) cashflow. (As in, they’re almost certainly not ‘good’ at their job/struggling and/or under pressure to meet targets etc./looking for someone who might be their polar opposite to take it out on/use to fulfil their ‘goals’ any-which-way). To be fair, my personal view is that it must be one of the more difficult jobs to be ‘good’ at.
Again I’m going off-topic but this is well-worth reading – http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/tory-donations-peerages-contracts.html
Kittycat58, that’s an interesting read. What a gallery of utter slimeballs!
sanctions targets, were only following orders grow some fuking balls if you dont want to do it dont, make a stand then others mite,, ive seen what sanctions do to people pure (evil), do what your paid to do find us jobs
Spot on Frost! Tell it like it is!
Yeah, like to see you do it big man when no one will back you up. And even when they do, like i said in my post they ‘separate troublemakers’.
Also,my job is NOT to get you a job.. Its to see that youre meeting JSA conditionality i.e. making sure YOURE looking for a job. So dont tell me how to do my job especially when you dont know wtf youre talking about.
Any Jobcentre employee with shred of humanity is clearly caught between a rock and a hard place as you’ve highlighted in your comments. But where is the PCS in all this? Why aren’t you all out on strike en masse?
Surely, you can not be alone in your situation(?) If your situation is as bad as you portray there must be several of you (many thousands, I would have thought). Why don’t you instigate a movement to truthfully expose all of this crap ?….you would become a bloody national hero…..though you’d probably end up on the dole too, which I guess is the answer to my question…
It always was the job of those that worked in unemployment offices to find people PAID work not follow orders putting them on unpaid work programmes or sanction them for objecting to a repressive system.
Sadly that’s no longer the case and it hasn’t been so for decades, as we all know. They exist purely to police your job searching activities and to look for any opportunity to include you in their off-flow statistics. If that wasn’t bad enough, a significant proportion of them are also incompetent at doing it!
I joined the union purely because of all this, they raise stuff, but essentially they have no power.. Most people dont even bother striking mainly because they have a ‘wont make any difference’ mentality and they’ll lose a days pay over it.
Blah, why don’t you (and your co workers who hate so much what they’re required to do) expose the content of your previous posts to the press and TV news media? They can’t sack all of you, can they?…..and you might just get some solidarity from the millions of people that you are currently ‘ordered’ to treat like a dog turd!
to be fair blah think ive said what a lot of people think ,, and my mistake i thought you were there to help find work
Yeah, in all fairness you have.. But those days of finding people jobs are long gone. Like i said, we’re not there to find jobs for anyone, its a dole office, practically a processing centre for conditionality…
I just want to help anyone i can. I do not however, appreciate being attacked and have to listen to the shit i hear every day purely because I mentioned I work there.
I come in peace 😉
I think you would do well to resign…..and then fuck off in peace!
Why the fuck dont you just sign off? Might shut you the fuck up with all your bitching!
Ooh……..getting a little frustrated that we can’t sort this one out with a quick sanction, are we? I’ll sign off when I want to thanks…..
If you seriously take that attitude with JCP staff then its no wonder if theyd take great pleasure in sanctioning you… It dumb asses like you that turn people in JCPs into fucking nazis. Then you have the cheek to expect us to resign because they dont stick up for your sorry ass??
You were a fucking nazi to start with, you have been stringing those commenting on here along, now you are showing your true colours and why a jcp job is so fitting for you.
You should grow up! Referring to people as “dumb-asses” and “sorry ass”… Seriously.
Also, how much shit can you expect a decent person to be served and yet expect them to maintain a neutral attitude? Have some empathy.
Jobcentre staff are scum. Fuck ’em.
But you expect us to be on your side right?
Blah, don’t let the bastards grind you down, I appreciate the insight
Me, too, Blah! Some of the people commenting here are positively begging to get sanctioned with that sort of attitude. Do you really expect him to resign and fuck his wife & kids? He’s in a difficult position, as Lucozade said, which he manages to maintain whilst ruining the lives of as few people as possible. I’d rather have him as an adviser than some I’ve met. If certain people can’t see that he’s (relatively speaking) one of the good guys, then they’re as stupid as their comments would suggest…
Skiver might expect you to be on his side, but your not employed to do that, you don’t strike me as the type that would support the unemployed even if you were not working in the job centre.
So how many sick and disabled people have lost their benefits due to the fixed Atos assessment, then forced onto JSA I wonder. Then been sanctioned due to an employee needing to get paid. Obviously doing as they are told by this vile Regime, terrified they to could loose their revolting job and end up claiming JSA and getting this vile shit flung right back at them. So how many sick and disabled people have lost all benefits do you think Blah? What happens to them then? Some of them died. This has got to stop. The general public must stop turning a blind eye. People with mental illness are not coping. I can not imagine what this is doing to people with Schizophrenia.
“I can not imagine what this is doing to people with Schizophrenia.”
They’re probably in two minds about it.
They will be I am sure. Lol. We have to laugh sometimes or we will all end up too wound up. Has Blah said his bit then? I guess his got the hump. Perhaps he should go to bed and sleep on this shit.
You beat me to it, but I was wondering if both of them would be sanctioned(?)
Mate, Im as responsible for people dying from being taken off ESA, as someone on JSA is for all doleys being lazy, scrounging scum..
Im done with you lot… Good luck on your adventures at the Jobcentre!
You sound like a right arsehole and thus proving my point about JCP staff.
Clearly youre a little too simple to understand sarcasm..
But yeah, Im an arsehole.. Such an arsehole infact, that im attempting to give out information to Jobseekers on how to avoid sanctions…
Please don’t take it too much to heart. Understandably people are angry, and seem to have made you angry too. I personally am glad that you had the courage to post here at all, as you must have at least suspected that you would receive some hostility. I don’t condone that hostility, but I do understand it..
I hope you will continue to post, perhaps on your own blog. In time the hostility will subside, as people will realise the value of the information you provide. You’re the first to even have the guts to do that, and I really respect you for that.
Once again, Sib: Damn straight! You are the wise old (no offence) man on this blog. Apart from Johnny, obvs. The immature toe-rags do, I hope, notice this…eventually…
No offence taken Timfrom.
Good night Blah , have a good sleep dude. Enjoy yourself at your nob centre plus Monday darling
I’ll second that…and I hope that the Working Tax Credit and Child Benefits payments are those befitting a two faced employee of the Stasi.
Jasmine – or bi-polar disorder, or any other kind(s) of mental ill-health.
I know someone who (after around 20 years) does seem to have a good understanding of their diagnosis of bi-polar disorder & understands clearly enough what symptoms can occur. But in other ways (doesn’t) and is completely at the mercy of the ‘powers that be’ – with little (objective) insight into how well or otherwise he is (sometimes) – by the nature of the illness. To the point that he has recently said “I’d be quite alarmed/worried if I was ever told to try to go back to work” (but not – “it would be wrong”). So, completely in the hands of the ‘system’ which (up until recent changes) has done what is right [for him]- based on regular GP visits/previously regular psychiatric support/input (which somehow melted away more recently – until a crisis of some sort occurs). First classed as fit for the WRAG group of ESA (irrespective of GP clearly stating “[name] is not fit for work and is not likely to be at any time in the future”). Now moved to ‘support’ group on appeal (for 2 years, then to be reassessed). This person has (more than) enough to deal with without additional/counter-productive persecution.
The first issue is that (without support from friends) they would simply have accepted that the decision must be ‘correct’ (as other official conclusion regarding wellness/or otherwise have been) ….. The second issue – that (if in WRAG group) they would almost certainly become ill at some point and miss appointments/arrive at JCP in a state of mania, trying to fulfil unrealistic expectations …. to be met with people who wouldn’t know much about their mental state/why they were acting in the way they were/and so (further) fall victim to a bureaucratic process from which it’s impossible to become extricated when trapped inside it …
yes Shriley, it is terrible for these people who have mental health problems and then to deal with people at the nob centre plus who clearly do not care about them. Its such a shame. It is a worry what will happen to them.
It isn’t about taking sides, it’s about doing the job in a professional manner and abiding by the rules. Bullying people and threatening them should never happen in a Jobcentre but we know it does. Sanction targets should not be allowed and officially they don’t exist. If a person deserves a sanction then that might be the right thing to do but getting people sanctioned just to make targets must be stopped. Jobcentre staff have gone on strike a number of times in the last few years for extra pay. They don’t mind going on strike if it makes them better off so if they got together against imposing sanctions their union could back them up and the government would eventually have to back down. If a strike happened and the jobcentre staff told all the media how they have been forced to sanction people just to make targets and save money that would also inform the british people what is really going on. It appears at the moment that many people who don’t experience the bullying and intimidation in jobcentres think it is all made up by lazy unemployed people.
Rob, I guess you’re too young to remember the Miners Strike (1984). In addition, if job centre staff went on strike claimants end up not getting money, the Government save money, people fall out of the system or not getting on, the Gov get exactly what they want..
No-one “deserves” a sanction. There’s no justification.
That’s going too far the other way. There definitely are people who deserve a sanction. They are the genuinely lazy slobs who will not look for work and do not want work. They may be the minority but they do exist and they do deserve a sanction to wake them up.
You are right Lucozade, but the people you describe are pretty readily identifiable. The problem is that DWP staff treat people who have worked for 40 years or more, in a professional capacity, doing their utmost to find work, attending job interviews etc., etc., in exactly the same degrading manner as some teenage chav who has never worked a day in their lives (and possibly never will). We are all equally at risk of being tricked and tripped up by the DWP conditionality regime and therefore subjected to sanctions.
Firstly can I just object to the term ‘teenage chav’ (or older ‘chav/ette’). And apologies for long reply – I feel really strongly about this.
They (the “lazy slobs”) are fairly few in number. However we might choose to identify them/define this – not earning a living is not (yet, officially) a crime. QED: the “slobs” don’t deserve to starve on the streets (with their children?) Lazy slobs are in work as well as out of work. At least some of those at JCP who appear to be ‘LS’s’ (not sure how this could be known unless we follow them/watch their every move) might have an ‘invisible’ illness or be caring for a parent/family member rather than having got ‘a proper job’.
Many, many paid workers continuously get paid for turning up and staying upright in their chair – even if they do very little/are worse than useless at what they do – they might do a bare minimum – or ‘do enough’ while being unhelpful/rude (or worse) to their customer-base/clients/bullying their ‘inferiors’. Their pay often continues over many years (even increasing/they even move up sometimes) rather than it being withheld from them. Not thinking of any one group of employees in particular here (really, I’m not).
“… never worked a day in their lives (and possibly never will)” – this must refer to one of the more unfortunate groups in society (far less fortunate than we have been, arguably) whatever their age – but every day there are new reports of youth unemployment being at an all time high. The poor have always been with us (poor in educational terms/lack of family support, or in having parent(s)/carers who could (conceivably) be ill-equipped to provide a stable/loving, whether or not a materially-sufficient home life). It’s always been a lottery. We’re not consulted pre-birth on what we get to ‘know’ and learn (about the world/our own abilities). Much of it starts before birth and unless childhoods contain at least some consistent ‘good’/responsible’ demonstrations of (values/mores/love/kindness) it’s more difficult for many individuals to develop the qualities they will need to ‘play the game’ of life (‘successfully’).
Huge sums of money are paid to ‘professional workers’, (who get to eat out regularly, ‘dress well’ take regular holidays and access the ‘best’ schools and so on, in exchange for their ‘professionalism’ -for going working in a comfortable environment, doing what they’re good at and probably find stimulating and rewarding); or, ‘”or being professional”. Alongside this, it’s been mainly ‘accepted as right’ that those who work for them (their receptionists/secretaries/cleaners etc. – along with shop workers, bin men/women, street cleaners) receive way less. These are the lucky ones – having ‘succeeded’ (relatively at least) at school or beyond, enough to be able to convince an employer they can turn up/do the work on an ongoing basis – however mindless/repetitive, perhaps demoralising it might be – so as to manage to (maybe) just earn enough to support themselves/any dependants. Til they drop.
I’ve been told more (than once) that ‘sanctions etc. are not intended for/aimed at “people like you” which has infuriated me each time I heard it. Who are they trying to kid, apart from anything else?
Trying to get a handle (this time last year) on everything that could potentially cause a so-called ‘sanction doubt’ – the answer was that nothing is written down about this (no exhaustive list) – we have to pick up clues as we go along – and hope we have the right ‘attitude’/skills for this. There’s no rulebook. In what world is that in any way fair – we know we have to do ‘everything reasonable’ but that can mean/often does mean – almost anything. It’s certainly the case that this wasn’t the intent behind the existence of a ‘sanction’ option. When I asked when the currently-used system started, the reply was “Sanctions have been around for a long time”. Since (around late 1970s/80s?) when they were ‘for’ the odd, very occasional extreme/exceptional case.
Either JCP workers now have to contend with many more of what used to be called ‘exceptional cases’ (possible but not likely even given all the social changes since then and policies that haven’t helped people who could do with – actual – support) – or the goalposts have moved. They’ve exploited a pre-existing ‘possible’ option and re-made it as what we now have – a very large stick to beat claimants (of all backgrounds – this could be the only democratic thing about it – as it’s at ‘advisers discretion’ it’s equally random for everyone –
Whether someone has worked 3 years or 40, if they are considered (by the desk clerk) to be a ‘chav’ or ‘well educated’ – is not the point. Either we collude with them that there are those who “deserve” to have nothing (not even a basic/bare minimum) to live on, as a “wake up” response to the alleged non-crime of not being ‘available enough’ for work. In that case, we agree to criminalising the unemployed and that we are ‘comfortable’ for such a person to have to try to explain to their family why there is no money for food. How can that even be a discussion we want to be part of?
~ Or we need to state loudly and often that removal of subsistence rations is not civilised.
(if benefits were being paid at a ‘reasonable’ rate (around £130) in today’s money – and hardship payments were also enough to continue to ‘live’ – and rent would continue to be paid, jobs weren’t disappearing as they now are, and people had access to training) – even then, I don’t think we should condone ‘nothing much to live on’ as a ‘disincentive to laziness’ – those who (supposedly) have pretensions to a ‘lifestyle on benefits’ maybe ‘deserve’ help/sympathy/to be seen as part of our society (whether they are ‘like us’ or not), rather than society as a whole looking down on them as being ‘worth less’ and turning on them like a pack of wild dogs.
A great post shirleynott, and apologies if my post offended you (which it obviously did!)
sn i agree..
a rotten legacy..we once lived in a land of almost full employment..we had strong trade unions even at times almost decent governments..we have always had a pyrimidical higher archy..except now this system is all powerful because the checks and balances, that could exercise some control over it have all gone…but the system acts, as if, these are still in place, the whole jsa system is set up, as if, full employment still exists and that all one has to do is to encourage us, to get one of these available mythical jobs and all will be well..”mythical jobs and cures plc”
so anyone who still has a half decent job is going to do all that they can to keep hold of it..realism in an irrational system…i think that the downtrodden should welcome any help we can get, in this dire situation, yes express rage, it keeps us sane and human..yes understand that not all jsa advisors want to help or even feel empowered to help…we live in difficult times to say the very least and things are set to get even worse, much worse, it is difficult to leave animosity at the jc+ door and try to enter with a clear mind, and take people as one finds them..i know..we all know…personally and as much as i have reason to loathe this system, and i do, the system is designed to cause frustration, leave it at the door, write letters appeal resist say no! often.
know what one can say no! to without getting a sanction..wise up as far as one can be wise to the system…
i welcome any information that i can get and any inside resistance to the system that is specifically designed to cause maximum frustration…conditionality and sanctions are at the very heart of this system and must be stopped..
Shirley. I’ll have to read this a few times to take it all in, but well said
Shirley: Well written. Is your £130 per week? Is it intended to cover Rent? Gas & Electric? Phone? Travel?
None of the Above, thanks. Occasionally I have a few moments of clarity/go off on one …
I took the £130 figure from information that’s been posted before (by Sibrydionmawr and others I think) & have seen elsewhere as being the amount that would be paid/week (in JSA/Unemployment Benefit) if amounts were equivalent to the 1979 amount. It just sounds like far more of a feasible amount to be able to manage things like phone/internet access – maybe even some heating and water – on this amount given the costs of everything today …
Full housing benefit should of course be paid (& council tax bill) for anyone who is on that sort of weekly amount & they should be able to live in the house they already do live in without money being deducted even where there are spare outbuildings/sheds. If i were in charge i would throw in free travel and one free cinema visit/week (for cultural reasons) but as i’m unlikely to be elected any time soon there’s no need to panic (daily mail/telegraph readers).
“If I ruled the world …. ”
Oh no, “if I were in charge” must have been some sort of freudian slipknot. Should have said something like “if I were allowed any say” maybe (or if I were able to regain any sense of control over my life).
Regarding free weekly cinema visits – these would not be mandatory.
Free travel at the point of use (locally) without some kind of stigmatising card that no-one recognises – it would be a concession and (in a more ideal world) and carrying a UB/JSA card would be a more ‘out in the open’ (people recognising they exist/there is a need for them) everyday experience.
No difference in amount paid between younger and older claimants (this makes no sense to me – it’s been ‘justfied’ along with other draconian measures – as there’s no clear evidence that at 25 or below you are better able to manage to meet basic needs on a tiny budget than when older – 25 year-old may need more calories than 40/50 year-old – this is a guess) – may need to use up more calories by being more active (or not) – there should be no difference in the amount paid.
Oh no (not the royal baby)!
Rob, well said and absolutely right, except for the fact that we do know that targets (and league tables) for ‘off-flow’ are most certainly in place, and that these targets are acheived by sanctioning those individuals who are the most readily identified as ‘an easy hit’. If the DWP staff had any balls whatsoever they would expose these procedures to the press/TV etc.
Omg! whats going on??? is everyone on the turn? Is anyone pissed? It is Saturday night after all. Who can afford a drink without income tho?
You could consider me pissed! Pissed off at Jobcentre arseholes that try to belittle me for being jobless. The cunts that work there are all simpletons that love their position of power to ridicule and talk condescendingly to claimants. Scum the lot.
Summed up very well Skiver…well said!
Do you think it might be that the current government policy of turning those people who have very little against those people who have nothing is actually working?
We know that is it is, to an extent, working. Attitudes have changed a lot since the very early days of Thatcher. Ironically the Tories used a campaign poster that had a long queue of people on it headed by the words, ‘Labour isn’t working’. Somewhat ironically the unemployment figure at that time was around a million people – by the time 1983 came along the Tories had made that figure 3 million unemployed. The difference then was that being unemployed was regarded as being unfortunate, and certainly not a crime, and very few would have considered that the unemployed themselves were responsible for their own predicament. It was a complete contrast with the way that unemployed people are regarded now. The dole money, though not an immense amount, actually meant you could have the necessaries of life, and perhaps also the odd pint now and then.
We need to try and change the negative image we have. It won’t be easy, and it certainly isn’t going to change overnight, and it will involve us being at least open to welcoming, (however grudgingly) those members of JCP staff start to move over to our direction. They are represented by a truly awful union leadership, but it’s worse than that, as many of the paid officials are equally bad, and more friends to the boss class than to the members in whose interests they are supposed to be working. That rot set in a long time ago, and it needs to change, but again, it isn’t going to change overnight.
I hope that some DWP staff, especially those who work in JCP do become members of the IWW as well as remaining in the PCS. There are a lot of very scared people working for the DWP. There are some very good grass roots organisers in the PCS, and other mainstream unions, people who are tragically being let down by their union leaderships, who are not subject to any real democratic control. We know that two motions to be placed before the PCS conference were rejected, for fear that it would lead them into the realms of a ‘political’ nature – which was the case, as the motions were aimed at opposing government policy. However, just leaving it like that with no attempt to find creative ways of opposing whilst remaining within the law is the greatest crime.
There are a lot of people who comment here who make valid points, but how many I wonder merely restrict themselves to venting spleens on sites like this and do no more? This is not to criticise, I do understand , but commenting on here alone isn’t enough, it needs to be better articulated out on the streets in an organised way. The week of action against JCP starts on August 5th, and Jobcentres up and down the country will be picketed. Why not go along to one? Obviously you may not feel too comfortable picketing outside the one where you sign on, but why not one in another nearby area if you can?
Placing stickers opposing austerity measures is also a very positive and effective way of taking action, (good places are at pedestrian crossings and other bits of street furniture) just take a few simple precautions and it’s highly unlilkely you’ll get caught. Ditto posters, though this is much more difficult than it once was, and the law has been toughened up on fly-posting, (plus there are far more CCTV cameras about).
Finding out what is truth and what is fiction is also good, in that way you can constructively challenge people (in a nice way) who repeat the myths as if they were truths. People believe the most amazing lies about what the powers that be can do, much of it just bluster created to cause maximum emotional disruption amongst people who are vulnerable, or who are convinced that they are vulnerable. It is a war of nerves, and there are bastards who will try and trip you up all of the way. But, so long as you fulfil your quota of tasks every week, as outlined in your Jobseeker’s Agreement it is very hard to sanction you in any reasonable way. As Blah said, if you do get sanction doubt raised against you, appeal. That it takes a year is disgusting, but it’s probably no surprise that it’s designed to take that long for a reason: it means that most people won’t bother appealing. Exactly the opposite to what should be done, and even if you don’t win the appeal, (and many people potentially would win as it is strongly rumoured that many sanctions aren’t even legal. The more appeals there are, the more the system gets clogged up, but also it sends to government a clear message, there is resistance that would require a relatively big change in the law to eradicate. I know that would be cold comfort to someone who has been sanctioned, especially as any sanction would most likely be long past once the case came to tribunal, but this system is not going to go away any time soon. We need to win a few battles, but we have a long way to go before we stand chance of winning the war.
well said.
sib
yes it is well to keep being reminded of the basic concept of clem atlees et al, of human,”dignity” the need to be able to dip ones hand i one pocket on a friday night and pull out the price of a pint..without the fear of starvation or eviction, if one even dreams to do that in these, terrible days…of incomes stripped to the bone, no! even beyond that to the marrow in some cases…the constant churning and fear of having to move and keep moving, home, “home is where the heart is”..”home sweet home”,…coz there is no room in the inn..or at least at a price that all can afford…homes are now part of the investment portfolio of the rich and this is plain wrong that they should be…we do face an uphill struggle…we now struggle to regain lost ground..but we must endure, persevere, and find the strength to carry on..little victories lead to big victories…
“The symbolism runs deep into the veins of the NHS. The government on Thursday sold off the NHS-owned company supplying safe blood plasma on which thousands depend. It was sold to a US private equity firm with a reputation for aggressive asset-stripping. Bain Capital owns Burger King, Domino’s Pizza, Dunkin’ Donuts and much else. Its predatory history dogged Bain’s founder, Mitt Romney, throughout the US election. – See more at:”
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2013/07/19/the-sale-of-nhs-blood-plasma-services-is-another-example-of-the-cowardly-state/
I’ve given 59 donations of blood, I’m not sure about 60
Nothings gonna happen… were all sitting it out coz theres only two more yearsof this muverfucking goverment – there holding on, were waiting.
2015 – whoosh SWP voted in by the people!
Wishful thinking there Keith. As with every election it’s all about the economy (mainly) and it’s quite possible, with sufficient amount of spin to help things along, that the economy will be looking not too bad in 2015.
The danger when living in our little unemployment bunker is of forming the impression that all the abuse we are suffering is widely known and, more to the point, cared about. It isn’t!
SWP are the only real safe bet for those on the left at the moment.
Would you really be prepared to vote for a party that condones rape committed by leafing party members Guy? I don’t somehow think so!
Hardship allowance if sanctioned or money cut off.
Welcome to GOV.UK
http://www.gov.uk
GOV.UK – The new place to find government services and information replacing Directgov and Business Link – Simpler, clearer, fast ESA SANCTIONS..Been sanctioned on ESA for failing to turn up for a Work Focused Interview or Medical, do you know that you may be able to claim a hardship payment of 60% of the full ESA for the period of the sanction if you can show that it will cause hardship to someone in the family.
More info:
1. An Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) hardship award is an award of Income Related ESA (ESA(IR) made at a reduced rate to give a minimum level of financial support.
2. ESA Hardship payments can be made to certain people who would suffer hardship if ESA was not paid. Hardship payments can only be made to claimants who have been sanctioned under the new regime for failures on or after the 3 December 2012.
Conditions for receiving an ESA hardship award
3. Before an ESA hardship award can be made, a claimant must satisfy four conditions:
• the claimant must apply for the hardship award in the appropriate manner; and
• the claimant must be in one of the prescribed circumstances for receiving an award; and
• the claimant must show that they, or a specified member of their family, would suffer hardship if an award was not made; and
• the claimant must have an award of ESA(IR) or be in receipt of ESA (C) but has an underlying entitlement to ESA(IR)
Appropriate manner of application
4. The appropriate manner of application is usually for the claimant:
• to complete and sign the ESA hardship application form JSAESA10JP; and
• to attend an interview with the ESA Hardship Officer in the Jobcentre.
Prescribed circumstances
5. An ESA hardship award can only be made if one of the following prescribed circumstances applies:
• the claimant has received an adverse decision on ESA conditionality including undertaking Work Related Activity but all other conditions of entitlement to ESA(IR) are satisfied; and
• a sanction has been imposed on the claimant, but all other conditions of entitlement to ESA(IR) are satisfied.
Adverse decision on ESA conditionality including Work Related Activity
6. If a claimant has received adverse decision on ESA conditionality including undertaking Work Related Activity they can only receive an ESA hardship award if:
• they are in receipt of ESA(IR) or have an underlying entitlement to ESA(IR); and
• the adverse decision was issued because they:
o failed to attend the NJWFI; or
o failed to undertake work related activity.
ESA is not paid because of a sanction
7. If a sanction is imposed, the personal allowance (prescribed amount) component of ESA is not paid for the sanction period under normal rules. However, payments can be made under the ESA Hardship Provision if the claimant successfully applies for a hardship award.
ESA (C) with Underlying Entitlement to ESA Income Related
8. If a claimant who is in receipt of ESA (C) claims a hardship payment they must be assessed to see if they have an underlying entitlement to ESA(IR). If they have an underlying entitlement they will need to submit a claim for ESA IR by completing an ESA application for review form (ESA3) and a claim for hardship at the same time.
mike…
that’s just another way of the system of saying that being sick or disabled is a choice, and putting even more pressure on the benefit entitled to get it right, what ever right one is told what right is..blaming the victim, and putting a tantalis safety net in place, that dissolves or not according to one’s personal circumstances, clever…to ease there guilt at sanctioning one..and making the disabled work even harder to get benefits, that put food into one’s mouth, roof over head et al…so moving those on wrag closer and closer to jsa conditionality…no to sanctions..let alone of those on e and sa…
blah…
we need all the help we can get…from where ever we can get it….we need to know what to do to avoid sanction…blah, please tell us…as clearly and precisely as you can, thank you…
Kissing the ass of your JC+ advisor is a good start………and always at least pretend to look interested when they tell you how crap their job is! Also, look like you really believe them when they tell you that they have no targets for sanctions. Finally, never ask them where their office is in the off-flow league table…..they really don’t like that!
max..
i aint no arse licker…i hate the system as much as you…i am on the e and sa, purgatory hell hades..horrific..i detest conditionality..and sanctions…wca-appeal set a side appeal wca appeal on and on it goes….a living night mare reapply for benefits, as i am doing now…i rage at the system and the jobsworths..who simply do not care if i live or die…and only if i do what they tell me to do…but i don’t live in fear of them anymore, as i used to…
It’s easy for me to say, I’ve got my life pretty sorted, but…
Anger is a pretty useful emotion, but you have to use it to drive yourself to do something, not just get angry
It’s no use expecting anyone else to sort things out for you, they won’t.
If you want to achieve anything you have to try something new every day, 80% of what you do will get you nowhere, but if you do enough things then the 20% will do the job.
Good Luck
none of the above..i served a full trade apprenticeship in the late 60’s early 70’s, and i am a fully skilled tradesman.
anger is not a drive, it is an emotional response. i’ve never had any problem asking others for help if i needed it, i regularly used manuals or made phone calls to others if i got stuck, as they have picked my brains..this blog is very helpful, we all need different things at different times in our lives a bit of advice here and there to reduce the load
Sounds like pure shit overburdenddonkey. I wish I could say I’m surprised, but I ain’t, of course! I can only wish you all the best mate….good luck, and try to keep yer chin up…..if you possibly can. And remember, for all the jobsworths and total shits that you encounter, there are a good many people who really do care.
max..
i post here because people do care, and do want to make a difference…and i also care, my chin is fine where it is…i see the world as i do…i wanted to get to the crux of what blah, wanted to say…goader or not goader…tantaliser or not tantaliser…
David Cameron on the Andrew Marr show today stated, that the work programme has not been fully rolled out yet or words to that effect and he is planning more not less of this shit, Blah should be pleased it will keep that schizo’s job secure.
fawkes
great..he effectively says this current scheme is a pilot, and will be much more successful once it is rolled out…we really do need all the help we can get…the “trickle down” effect is about to become a cascading torrent..and there is labour saying that the cuts and capping don’t go far enough…vying for who can be the biggest bastards..
How much more of this fucking shit can Camoron & IDS dish out?. It seems to have turned into a game for these arseholes, see who can kick the poor the hardest, At least that two-faced git Blah will be happy, his future’s secure unlike the vast majority of claimants.
kittycat that Blah was making excuses for the jsa advisers who sanction people and refuse to strike because they have mortgages and children, some example they are setting to their children kicking people off benefits, as for their mortgage repayments if they were unemployed their interest would be paid as is rent for those who rent so that is no excuse either, so they must be in it for the power it gives them – sicko’s the lot of them.
worth remembering that anyone sacked by the DWP for misconduct would be disallowed benefits for six months
Also worth remembering that support for mortgage interest is only for two years (and there is a 13 week qualifying period)…after that you’re fucked!
However, that doesn’t alter the fact that the bloke is a two faced twat!
Oh irony.
anyone sacked from any job is disallowed benefits not just ex dwp workers. Anyone with any self respect would not take the job and all that it entails in the first place.
Anyone know how much these bastards get paid? I’ve done a little research and it appears to be around the £25K mark. Not a bad rate for standing around gassing……….as I have observed them doing when I have been kept waiting for 45 minutes when attending an appointment!!
When the dwp kept me waiting to sign, I used to take a book from the library that was derogatory to the benefit system and had it’s title in bold letters and held it up in front of me facing the jobs worth until they deemed to call me. You could print your own title and put it inside a plastic book cover and pretend to read the book while they read the title of your choice big and bold.
Nice one!…….I like your style!
more of that which does not work, great.
Seems like the only person who does not benefit from these enforced labour schemes is the actual unemployed person / victim.
Why doesn’t this Government do something helpful towards the economy for once, like provide unemployed with ‘worthwhile’ training to help unemployed people achieve what THEY wish to do. They could even have businesses help to sponsor such training which would certainly stimulate some growth in the economy I think? It just seems to me that most of what these tory poshboys do is sabotage Britain.
Absolutely right Hasnot, particularly your first paragraph and final sentence.
Well then, the cuts and capping don’t go far enough eh. Bloody hell wot a joke! Are they going to cap more then? There wont be any money to cut, I am already minus money every week. I can not afford food or my large revolting council tax bill. Baliffs will be visiting soon no doubt. I will have to throw away Dr’ s med certificates saying I am UNFIT for work. Chuck em in bin, they get ignored any way. Yes I will claim JSA and take loads of opiates to hide my pain. I will be forced into PURGATORY by this Gov, and lets hope that when/if I get a job my employer does not mind me falling asleep on my opiate pain killers, and having to go home early, taking many days off due to pain. Perhaps I will end up with the sack, be back at square one again. I wish I never had that sodding accident. I never thought this would happen to me.
Recommend listening again to Radio 4’s News Quiz which was on Friday 6.30 pm or Saturday 12.30. Comedian Jeremy Hardy was talking about IDS! Well worth hearing.
It is my belief that was indeed well worth hearing!
Mr. Fawkes….I salute you!
With David camoron wittering on about how google should censor stuff… I recommend you google “David Cameron side view” then click on images before it changes… the first picture is Mr “call me dave” to a tee.
Hahaah!……but what about the finger pointing ‘I’ll take a question’ pose? That one always makes me want to puke!
HI None of the above,
I do remember the miners strike of 1984 and the Nottingham miners breaking the strike and the police stopping people from picketing. The unemployed wouldn’t lose benefits if they jobcentre staff went on strike. When they have been on strike in recent years they have put through benefits without people having to sign that week.
Hi Max,
You are right about having to keep people at the jobcentre happy by showing interest and feeding their ego. Of course we have all met some decent people who work in Jobcentres but it’s always the nasty ones that we have to worry about.
Yes Rob, but what you’ve really got to watch for now is that any of the bastards will just use you as a target in order to keep themselves from being subjected to PIP, rather than standing up and being counted and refusing to implement a system with which many of them do not agree (allegedly).
Rob, maybe I was wrong about existing benefits claimants, although if there was a strike new claimants would be in trouble, the point is, the Miners were strong, with widespread public support, the strike lasted a year and they lost. The strike is an old and and obsolete weapon, we need a better one.
none of the above…how about pairing up..and going in,in 2’s..support each other, on signing days..that sort of thing..
It’s a long time since I’ve been in a job centre, if you think it could work, give it a try, can’t hurt
none of the above..study the movers and shakers of the 50′ and 60’s trade union and political movements..the orators…get your soap box out…set up unemployed clubs and action groups..get to know the people who sign on with you, if you don’t already, at your own pace…
I’m a firm believer in giving everything a try, it sounds like a good idea to me, have you got any more where that came from
Good idea, any more where that came from
A general strike would not be obsolete – get them all out to support the sick,disabled and unemployed I say.
I really hate being negative, but a general strike sounds tricky to organise
Strikes are certainly part of the process, but solidarity needs to be built first and foremost, and that is going to be really hard. We unemployed workers are regarded as skivers by other workers, DWP workers are pressurised into harassing us, and then when one does, genuinely or disingenuously, they get berated, (hard not to, I know, easy target and all that) and most areas don’t have a claimants organisation on the ground.
Maybe when all this is in place and there is an odds-on chance of winning a general strike would do the trick – but do we really want more of the same? Any government ‘we’ elected would inevitably be opposed to us, it would have to be, so why replicate the present system, that would just be stupid!
Once we become strong enough, we merely take over the running of industry and anything else ourselves on a basis of true democracy and equality, forgoing the creation of a government that we know will only screw us over, no matter how well intentioned it is.
The reason any government will screw you over is because they know they can. Most MP’s represent “safe” seats, so they think they’ll get elected whatever happens. If you want them to listen to you the trick is to make your MP one of the unemployed in the next election. There are no MPs who couldn’t lose their seats. When they know that they only keep their jobs because we let them then they will have to pay attention to us.
HI None of the above,
The miners were strong before the Nottingham miners broke the strike and the police stopped miners travelling to Nottingham to picket those mines. Scargill wasn’t that popular either. I agree a long term strike would be pointless but get those jobcentre workers standing outside the jobcentres just for a couple of days informing the general public how nasty and vile the treatment is that they are being told to hand out to the unemployed. That would make a big difference to public opinion. The next election isn’t going to be easy for labour to win and they are not that fond of the poor anyway. More a case of using the poor to get into power and then being a little less nasty to us. The housing benefit cap could move all the poor into areas that would make it difficult in the long term for labour to get a majority. As it is now, labour can win all the welsh and scottish votes and North of England and still not have enough seats. I somehow don’t the poor will be driven out to that extent, well I hope not.
Rob, do you really think that the jobcentre workers will stand outside the jobcentres to inform the public about their punitive regime?!! You are bloody dreaming mate! And even if they did, do you think that the great British public would take one iota of notice? The public do not give a fucking shit about the unemployed………..until they lose their own jobs!!!!!!!!!!
And anyone who has never lost their job has not, and never will, have even the slightest comprehension of the completely debilitating effect it has on the victim……..
and I mean financially, physically and, worst of all, mentally!! And that’s before you get involved in becoming some bloody DWP off-flow statistic!!!!
Rob,
You say that, but I live in what i think is known as a ‘major city’ with 2 job centres in the town centre. But – is this common/usual? – both are situated at the very outer edges of the ‘main’ area(s) where people go to shop/use the banks etc. There are very, very few ‘passers by’ in both cases (a few bankers maybe) – the only people who generally pass by either one are those who are unlucky enough to be needing to go there (one is sited next to a very busy road, full of fast-moving traffic) & the other is more ‘out of the way’ altogether – at the (far) end of a street which mainly contains businesses.
Apart from that though – i wish what you’re suggesting could happen.
Rob, you’re right about job centre workers informing the public, good idea
Looking at this somewhat farcical scenario another way, when the opportunity arises it will be both amusing and enlightening to engage with those on the picket lines and to have the opportunity to ask them face to face exactly what their gripe is, do they really have to meet off-flow targets etc., and how much do you get paid for being an incompetent and vindictive cunt!
I would urge everyone who cares about this issue to access the csrf link, which is shown at the start of this article, and let the two faced bunch of wankers have your views regarding their forthcoming self-centred protestation.
I’m with you Max, none of the above sounds like he needs some help from above to me.
and look like a complete dick when they explain to you that most PCS members are not DWP workers, and even of the ones that are only a small percentage play any part in the sanctioning process – a lot of them work administering pensions.
Johnny it’s not like you to be backward in coming forward when it comes to statistics to support your case. So once you’ve got some on the relative distribution of those going on strike who are Jobcentre based and those who are not, post ’em up and we can go from there eh?
Of course, that’s assuming we see any action at all!
So what is the point of protest at Job Centres?…….which have a kinda strong link with the DWP, unless I’m very much mistaken…..
presumably they want to try and influence the members of the union who are DWP as well as make a wider point opposing welfare reform
And we can still ask them what their gripe is………..DWP workers or not.
I was just saying that even when people stand outside a building on strike especially when it’s national you always get a reporter from the bbc or itv giving it some coverage and that at least will get a message to the general public of what is really going on.
Last week when the benefits cap came in we saw the bbc and itv reporters asking the general public and they gave views that were built on spin from the government so it does have an effect. If jobcentre workers really cared then they could at least make an effort by exposing what is going on. It may only be a gesture but it would help the cause. I wouldn’t expect the people who enjoy bullying to stand outside supporting us under any circumstances but let’s hope they are in the minority. I have been on the receiving end since I’ve completed my two years on the work programme but I have met some decent jobcentre staff over the years.
Fair enough i see what you mean – a bit distracted by hearing DC pontificate about pornography and how he is going to police what people do/see online – he always sounds as though he’s lying/dissembling even when he probably is.
Yes, listening to that moron telling us what he is or isn’t going to do, makes one forget that he and his controlling party got just 23% of the vote at the last election. Something has to change.
He reminds me of a Stepford wife.
Job centre staff remind me of stepford wives.
I’ll take a Stepford wife any day compared to the harridans that work in my local Jobcentre!
Right from the start he was called ‘putty face”, but I thought that he looked like a Thunderbird puppet 🙂
That’ll be the Class A’s, I guess….. wait till his nose falls off
Prime ministerial nose grows longer every day (maybe it’ll trip him up).
Somewhat off topic, another victim of atos – http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/mum-of-three-elenore-told-find-job-2074333
Here’s another off topic comment……..I’VE JUST BEEN OFFERED A JOB!!!!!!!!!!!……………..WAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!
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