As Hunger Soars Iain Duncan Smith Is Still Hiding The Existence Of Emergency Benefit Delay Loans

IDS-malnutritionFollowing last week’s food banks report, which found delays in processing benefits are one of the key reasons for growing hunger in the UK, Iain Duncan Smith said to Parliament:

“Today I have announced that we shall be doing much more to raise awareness of interim payments for people who need them, particularly those who are in difficulty.”

These payments are called Short Term Benefit Advances (STBAs).  These are repayable loans that can be accessed whilst waiting fot the Jobcentre to get round to processing a benefit claim.  And the shameful truth is, that whilst the number of people using foodbanks has soared, the DWP have done everything they possibly can to hide their existence.

There is no mention of these payments on the section of the website which provides information on “Jobseeker’s Allowance and low income benefits”  or the section on “Benefits for families”.  In fact there is no mention of these loans on any government website at all except buried in policy documents.

This is not surprising.  When Short Term Benefit Payments were introduced, the jobcentre worker’s PCS Union warned that the DWP did “not intend to advertise the availability of STBAs to the public.”  When guidance on the Social Fund was later published, detailing the kind of help available from the government in an emergency, there was still no mention of these loans.

Short Term Benefit Payments were brought in to replace Crisis Loans which Iain Duncan Smith scrapped in April 2013.  These were small interest free loans which could be taken out if benefit payments were delayed or in the event of a household emergency.  The average sized loan was about thirty quid and the repayment rate was almost 100%.  So blasé was the Secretary of State about ending this vital support that when he was interviewed a year later he seemed to have forgotten his petty and vicious decision and claimed that they still existed.

Crisis Loans were a well publicised part of the benefits system and could be accessed by calling a dedicated phoneline. Unlike STBA’s, Crisis Loans still even have their own webpage – which states they no longer exist in Scotland, England and Wales – but makes no mention of their replacement.  This is not an oversight as Iain Duncan Smith is now trying to pretend.  It is clear that as families with children have gone hungry whilst waiting for benefit claims to be processed, the DWP have pursued a strategy of hiding information detailing the emergency payments they are entitled to.

The reason for this has not been to save money or cut the deficit, these loans barely cost the tax payer a penny.  The existence of these payments was hidden out of pure spite – to deliberately make life harder for people in desperate circumstances to access the help they need.  Now we are seeing the results of that policy with unprecedented numbers of people dependent on food banks to survive this Christmas.  That means children going hungry and all because of a nasty and vindictive little move by Iain Duncan Smith – and one that he is now trying to hide.  Don’t let the bastard  get away with it.

Short Term Benefit Advances can only be accessed by speaking to Jobcentre staff.  Child Poverty Action Group have published details on how the process works.

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96 responses to “As Hunger Soars Iain Duncan Smith Is Still Hiding The Existence Of Emergency Benefit Delay Loans

  1. A pure evil heartless bastard….

  2. I am thinking that the powers that be are carrying out somekind of experiment ?, to see what people do, how far they can be pushed when faced with all that the powers that be are doing to them!.

  3. overburdenddonkey re interim housing benefits…
    ‘Don’t put up with it. If your claim hasn’t been sorted out two weeks after you have given all the information needed, then the Council are legally obliged to make you regular interim payments of Housing Benefit.’

  4. @OBD, I didnt know that,and I suspect neither does anybody else.
    All local authorities follow a policy of asking for information already supplied,and if proof is given that the info has been thus supplied,they say they have ‘lost it’.
    Something else not a lot of people know is that there is an office in each council benefits building where telephone calls are monitored and in calling numbers are noted and location traced to identify fraudulent claims.It is the reason why you get a letter on friday demanding said repeat info on monday.
    Whilst all these delay and anti fraud tactics are modus operandi it will always be the case that 13 weeks is the payout period so I suspect if everybody demands interim payments the offices will go into meltdown.
    But very useful info you have supplied indeed.

    • overburdenddonkey

      just a thought, this is in scotland….worth checking if applicable, i can’t see/think on the surface why not…. imo grassroots groups are best, but check with welfare groups in local area or hunt down applicable LA regs…

      • overburdenddonkey

        p s regs are quoted as The Housing Benefit Regulations 2006, in particular Regulation 93(1) see ecap page posted above…

  5. blackghost55..evil heartless bastard?….YES,DEFINITELY.. BUT THERE’S NOTHING PURE About him.

  6. Hiding the info out of spite, yes. And also to encourage desperate people to take out loans at rates which are little short of usury.

  7. The express intention of hiding any help available what so ever is to induce fear and dread into the work force of becoming unemployed, and that such an outcome will lead to destitution and homelessness.
    This keeps wage rates down and employment agencies and shareholders rich.

  8. Don’t know people like this can sleep at night. I could not sit at a dinner table with him without being physically sick. Wonder what his family think of him.

    • Well, ‘Incessantly Delivering Sanctions’ appears to be delusional, so perhaps he has convinced his family, as well as himself, that he’s working very hard for the greater good.

  9. Jobcentres & the DWP refuse to give forms which are available to anyone. That is illegal No one can get nothing because they can`t get a form. DWP illegal practice.

    • Very true stepping razor…….., when I was sanctioned they sent a letter stating benefit stopped and forms included, but they never were.
      The council when I applied for housing benefit constantly denied receiving my housing benefit claim, sometimes they said they must have misplaced it.

  10. 1st you got to pass the DWP made up test which is called A Failure Test of course every one fails the failure test even In Deep Shit.

  11. Work and pensions secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, said: ‘We know that the benefit cap has had a real impact in changing attitudes and behaviours, and now we have evidence showing that our welfare reforms are encouraging people into work.

    ‘By putting an end to runaway benefit claims and introducing a system which guarantees you will always be better off in work, we are incentivising people find employment.’

  12. DWP urged to publish inquiries on benefit claimant suicides

    Department has carried out 60 internal reviews following deaths, and campaigners say those cases likely to be tip of the iceberg

    TheGuardian: Sunday 14 December 2014 18.53 GMT

    The Department for Work and Pensions has been urged by mental health and disability charities to publish its secret investigations into suicides that may have some link to benefit changes, following revelations that it has carried out internal reviews into 60 such cases.

    A Freedom of Information request by the Disability News Service has revealed that the DWP has carried out “60 peer reviews following the death of a customer” since February 2012. A peer review is triggered when suicide or alleged suicide is “associated with a DWP activity”, according to its internal guidance.

    Despite growing concern over the way benefits are administered in relation to vulnerable individuals, and amid a number of reports of related deaths, the department told the Guardian it had no plans to publish the reviews.

    Read More:

  13. It would be fitting if Iain Duncan Shit was re-incarnated as a toilet brush!

  14. as long as its not in my toilet.hes not even fit for that.

  15. Reblogged this on Britain Isn't Eating and commented:
    Fkin heinous immoral murdering lying Tory b’stard!

  16. Just curious, can STBAs be applied for if you’re sanctioned?

  17. IDS, DWP, JCP, WORKING LINKS = Heartless scum sucking bastards.

  18. Ebeneezer Scrooge was more charitable than this cunt

  19. Get rid of IDS – vote Marina Pepper for Class War.

  20. Reblogged this on Jay's Journal and commented:
    What really piches me off is the fact that no-one does anything about this – we just let it pass us by as thought it’s normal. We’ve had 4+ years to do something about this, and we could have succeeded if everyone had joined together and brought this unelected coalition down.

  21. Verbally Battered to death by DWP . . .

    Sorry to keep deviating from topic but all you guys need to be informed trust me!

    Overburden donkey and another fine mess – thanks so much for your reply, I really appreciate it.

    I have been frantically trying to write a report up since I wrote this on Saturday 13 12 14. (Don’t have a pc or anything techno so have to come to the library to do this).

    Matters are EXTREMELY serious, trust me (don’t have time to go in to the tiny details here) as this matter requires a benefit lawyer. I have since received an HORRENDOUS DWP 50 page ‘appeal against our decision’ pack for my appending imminent appeal (? date). It contains the most horrific catalogue of lies imaginable – things I know nothing about.

    I have NEVER SEEN such a blatant attempt to destroy someone’s credibility and defamation of character!

    You have to read it to believe it and I only received it on Friday 12 14 14. I couldn’t bring myself to read it at first as I couldn’t believe my eyes! It is completely criminal. DWP and JCP have manufactured an horrendous smear campaign against me. NONE of it is true. I have done everything expected of me. It is purely down to the fact that they are the biggest state criminals going and for the very reason I have exercised my rights eg: refused to sign in on attendance at the WP/sign any provider documents etc when it is not necessary and perfectly within my rights.

    DWP have dredged up the most fabricated case. The compulsive lies are unbelievable: they have said I didn’t turn up on the WP and walked out, I didn’t engage (whatever that’s supposed to mean?), I haven’t applied for jobs, done my job search, I am not looking for work, endless etc… etc… It is slanderous to say the least! etc etc etc etc etc …

    I just haven’t had time to finish the report to my MP yet. I need as much advice as possible and any advice anyone can keep offering me is extremely appreciated. What is going on here is highly criminal. The entire local JCP, WP (past month forced on to the CWP) as well as all the DWP staff that have become involved along the way have just joined in in what is now a blatant witch-hunt.

    Everytime I go in the JCP all the staff are so rude and permanently interrogate me finding any excuse to discredit me and call the manager which happens virtually every time I go in there now. The atmosphere is horrendous and my job search is torn apart and scrutinised and 99% of the time is sent to the manager. (I write it on paper and have flatly refused to give them UJM access which they despise and have battered, threatened, intimidated me to give it to them all the time). This conduct towards me goes on and on and on. It never ends. They have made it abundantly clear they are doing everything within their power to kick me off benefits in the most heinous way imaginable and to make my life as much hell as possible every time. They are TRULY VILE. They have already sanctioned me for 9 months – 5 sanctions in a row and I will have no money till the new year, if that. I have had £400 to live on all year and they have hurled personal/impertinent questions at me which are none of their business. The manipulative and creepy floor manager: state criminal like the rest of them! has tried to force so many things on me demanding an email, phone number, how do I survive with no money? How dare he aske me this. I told him it’s none of his business. This crook has now put in the appeal ‘client conversations’ sheets (which they lied about and refused to give me) claimant – a potential fraud ! ! ! . . . It couldn’t be further from the truth! I’m living on NOTHING, surviving on pittance from dramatically dwindling savings as I have to pay 20% max council tax before any food or I will end up with another trial! It is OUTRAGEOUS and so OFFENSIVE!

    I have to go to JCP in a minute – daily signer – haven’t started the dreaded work placement yet – new year to look forward too!!!!

    I need to get the report finished fast asap to my MP as I am going to have to reschedule my appeal date now. As soon as it’s finished I will follow your brille advice and attach it. Claimants need to know what the hell is really going on . . .

    Please keep the advice coming in. I have already completely kept them at bay where the phone is concerned, trust me. The last time I dealt with these state criminals over the phone they blatantly lied and again stuff was put down I knew nothing about on the Mandatory reconsideration notice.

    ‘Causing me to be anxious’ – thanx so much for your support. This has completely overtaken my life. I have so much paperwork and crap going on here it’s a mind-field and now to find 50 pgs of mindless defamation of character claptrap for £70/wk, it’s absolutely embarrassing – shameful on this SS government!

    Have to go JCP and be interrogated to death now ! . . .

    Just got back from JCP – horrendous interrogation again. My app card is deliberately checked by security every time I enter the building to check i’m not late! They are forcing me to join a really crap temp agency tomorrow and they said I have to take my passport, (don’t have one) 2 photos, 2 proof of address, NI no, (will take JCP letters) bank details, 5 yrs checkable work history and 2 written refs (don’t have – been unemployed 5 yrs+). They are fully aware of this and are baiting and humiliating me to death. The creepy SS manager targeted my yet again bait, bait, bait. It was so blatant he kept stitching me up, a burly security guy stood in front of me deliberately the entire time as the manager was really baiting for a verbal outburst. He asks me the same baited question every time “why do you bother coming in here anymore, when you get no money?” All the staff in there are in baited breath – all lined up and desperate to get the appeal outcome. Standing around in droves. The creepy advisor said immediate sanction if don’t go tomorrow and bragged about yet further sanctions and destitution. They find it hysterically funny. I’m their cheap entertainment and circus show!

    They are acting completely above the law and another advisor was called over to interrogate me and manipulate me and yet again blatantly lied too. They demanded access to my UJM, email and registration account no – totally illegal! Every blag in the book to access it today – fraudsters. If they don’t get it tomorrow – guess what? . . . sanction . . .

    JV – where are you? You need to know what is going on here big time. Your site has been sabotaged again ALL day. Have had real problems finding it. It has been removed from bing. I am always having problems accessing it in the library!

    Please keep advice coming in – desperately need – horrendous things going on all the time with JCP! . . .

    • What a tale 😱 I’m not sure of the law about Jobcentre+ but I suspect you can have a McKensie friend with you during interviews with them.

      • overburdenddonkey

        wow! imho rank everything in order of impact/importance value to you…in a list ie pros and cons of actions that you’ll need to take…find a way of making things more manageable….perhaps find local grassroots support groups etc….untangle as much as you can, it sounds to me like you already are trying to make things more manageable…

    • Individual targeting of claimants by the DWP/JCP and what amounts to conspiracy (one or more JCP staff) to defraud claimants of benefits is clearly being instigated in JCP.

    • @ Ann – the important thing is not to let the fuckers break you – it is of the utmost importance that you keep attending and signing on. It is also important that you Appeal to the Tribunal, don’t even think about throwing in the towel because of the lies the DWP churn out in those “Mandatory Reconsiderations”. Tribunal judges aren’t daft and can see right through the DWP crap – just tell them the truth about what has being going on and you should be OK. It is imperative that you win your Appeal because it is obvious that these bastards want to destroy you. Seek as much good advice as possible and give it your best shot, but down let the bastards grind you down. Good luck and all the best!

    • DWP + JCP = Bottom Feeding scumbags. Simple as that. There are a load of them that should be doing time for the crimes they’ve committed against vulnerable people. Rotten bastards the lot of them.

  22. An anti-slavery raid on a factory in Greater Manchester has uncovered workers from Eastern Europe allegedly paid under £2 an hour, police said.

    DWP/JCP Community-Work-Placements.

    FOR PROFIT HUMAN Trafficking within the UK, from the DWP/JCP to WORKFARE PROVIDER to PLACE OF LABOUR.


    ……………………….who are these organisations and people?

    Are they just a figment of this proven liars warped mindset on the extermination of the infirm?

    From: Linda Burnip

    14 December 2014

    Dear Department for Work and Pensions,
    In view of the following published statement
    The minister for disabled people is facing accusations that he
    misled parliament over the level of support for the government’s
    decision to close the Independent Living Fund (ILF).
    Mark Harper told MPs this week that he had “talked to disability
    organisations about this matter, and they agree with the
    government” that the ILF should be closed and non-ring-fenced
    funding passed instead to local authorities.

    We would like to know
    1. which disability organisations Mark Harper spoke to?
    2. when did Mark Harper speak to them?

    Yours faithfully,

    Linda Burnip

    Link to this


    ……….we all know the truth, but do they?…………..

    From: Phillip

    16 November 2014

    Dear Department for Work and Pensions,

    Please can you provide me with the 60 reports written on the peer
    reviewed case’s of customer deaths as mentioned in the Disability
    News Service article titled “DWP admits investigating 60 benefit
    related deaths since 2012”. This piece was published on 14th
    November 2014.

    I have no objection to names and locations being changed in the
    reports to protect individuals data. But I do ask that the change
    is consistent accross all 60 reports. For example if Liverpool is
    mentioned in 10 of the 60 reports and you change Liverpool to
    Manchester or city 1 in one of the reports please be consistent
    with this change in all 60 reports, so although the location is not
    known it can be seen if the same location is repeatedly reported

    Yours faithfully,

    Phil Jones

    Link to this


    Please provide information on the number of Jobseeker’s Allowance
    (JSA) or Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) claimant households
    with dependent children, where the claimant has received an adverse
    sanction decision (by level of sanction for JSA) for the latest 12
    month period for which data is available.

    If it is possible within the cost limit, please provide information
    on the number of children in the of households affected in whatever
    way is appropriate for your database – probably number of
    households affected with 1 dependent child ,2 dependent children, 3
    dependent children, or 4 or more dependent children.

    Thank you for any help you can offer.

    Yours faithfully,

    Matt Collins

    Link to this


    From: P Baker

    6 December 2014

    Dear Department for Work and Pensions,

    In working with Jobcenter Plus & a Community Work Program Provider
    I’ve discovered that the claimant contracts/agreements may not be
    governed by the Principles of European Contract Law.
    1) Which law in particular governs these contracts?
    2) Can you link me to the legislation?

    Yours faithfully,

    P Baker

    Link to this

  27. I.D.S, is going along the assumption that if he takes the bread and butter out of peoples mouths then they will all be forced to have two people living on one payment from the Job center ,that is actually whats been happening , .. Only problem is because hes shut down half his brain power by drinking too much of his own fluoride he hasn’t added into his insane plan what to do with the people who are alone in the country , and have no one but a public phone to use that costs £5 a minute , nor has he given any consideration to the people who are homeless but cannot stay on anyone’s couch for fear of them being marched off by the local Gestapo and done for benefit fraud ,everyone are being treated like scum in their own country , and made to feel like they are criminals for signing on or being sick and disabled , whilst in reality the rich have far more benefits an d hand outs , with in favor tax and entertaining foreign .guests , and not forgetting the “can being able to afford the high purpose driven inflation rate “,We have an ever growing housing lists , homeless and hungry , and whats their answer ?? Benefit sanctions ,, confiscating camping equipment due to illegal camping laws ….ever more strict and sneaky laws added in through the back door ,, all to help the rich and all to make things a lot worse for the poor , ,, how can they sleep at night and convince themselves that their ignorance is fair , , this country is sick . and the way the poor are treated will end up in a history book one day as a crime to humanity ,the UK need to be run by people with a back bone and a will to make the countrymen and women in it feel secure and equal .,we are all in this together,they say, with one group eating Caviar from smooth skinned hands and another group with rough hard working hands thrown in the gutter getting spat on ,victimized and made redundant .

    • The cost of using a payphone is an 👿 abomination 👿

      • Pay phones are a sign of how bad we are all being ripped off as its the Governments greedy tax that bumps the price of calls up , they take so much out of us it can only mean one thing ,that they are running the country into the ground to cause mass home repossessions and loss of life , to cure overcrowding , to reap the spoils of genocide, the cost of a phone call in America is a couple of quarters in a pay phone and your tapping your foot board with the conversation dragging on , a phone call in a pay box in the UK and you better have a big bag of pound coins with you to quieten the pips tone . and these little things are a lot of money out of peoples pockets , this blood thirsty government has to wake up and stand down ,and a new party is needed , one that is fit to look after people in a country , not ride their backs to obtain money with twisted desires to put everyone through never ending laws in jail that comprises of a Victorian style claustrophobic brick shoe box that’s smaller than an animal in a zoo gets , lets set some standards here , everyone is being ripped off and if they don’t like it ,its the door to jail , a jail that reflects the mentality of the ones in power and the ignorant turning a blind eye, . they talk about war crimes and how bad other countries are to its people , ????they want to remove the blinkers and look what they are doing to everyone.People have different views on what jail should be like , but in the real world disregard the crime , the condition of a jail reflects the backwardness of a government , as the punishment is to have ones freedom removed , what happens after that is either along the lines of Sweden who inmates get a log cabin in the woods in human conditions that the family can visit and stay , as “what have they done wrong to lose a member of the family ?” , a prison system like that is a sign of an intelligent government , wanting to help people . a Victorian hell hole is created by a government who have no better standards than Vlad the Impaler , for the simple reason ,, What if your innocent and end up there ? Or get sanctioned , made homeless by a caring government , then get put in jail for illegal camping ? the whole system is a meat mincer that has no logic .remorse nor genuine grounds behind it . It is a system that is no better than an under world Mob that squeezes for money from the general population then fly’s the flag of decency and righteousness. .

    • Basically, if you can’t afford the exorbitant cost of a land-line or have a contract mobile phone you are fucked!

    • There is no fucking way you will be ‘phoning 100 employers a day’!

  28. Reblogged this on Beastrabban’s Weblog and commented:
    This is disgusting, but I don’t think IDS here is doing anything radically different than previous Tory administrations in hiding the existence of Emergency Benefit Delay Loans. John Major’s administration also used to hide details of the welfare benefits that were available. Then, lo and behold! Just before an election or whenever the Tory party’s hold seemed somewhat wobbly, government adverts would appear on TV advising us that there were so many millions of benefits going unclaimed. This served the purpose of pretending that the Tories were actually far more caring than they really were, while simultaneously reassuring Daily Mail readers that it was alright to cut benefits, because, after all, so many millions were going unclaimed so there clearly wasn’t a demand for them.

  29. As one journalist wrote last year

    2With no mainstream political party standing four square on the side of the poor, such as the Labour Party once did, members of the political class who exist in a bubble of moral superiority from which they like to pontificate about fairness, hardworking families, shirkers and strivers, should take note that this is not a game.

    None other than he ancient Greek philosopher Aristotle understood this. When he opined that “Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime” he could have been describing British society in 2013″.

    How long before the Social Explosion happens. IDS and his colleagues are evil incarnate.

  30. Landless Peasant

    Smith should stand trial for crimes against humanity. Hang the bastard.

  31. ‘Social Supermarket’ Opens Selliopened ng Low-Price Food To Benefit Claimants.

    A new “Social Supermarket” has its doors to benefit claimants struggling to get by with the high price of food.

    Community Shop will sell cut-price food donated from Britain’s major supermarkets at 70% less than normal prices, reports the Telegraph.

    Britain’s first cooperative aimed at helping some of the poorest people in society will be available to members, with only those in receipt of state benefits able to join.

    • overburdenddonkey

      they’ve had social supermarkets in germany for many years and imo a sound idea as long as the quality of foods sold is high….there are also in global use, discount supermarkets which are staffed by it’s users…these often sell high end market products @ discounted prices…

      • @OBD
        “discount supermarkets which are staffed by it’s users”
        We already had them – the Cooperative Movement – or as it was known in my day: the Co-op, complete with “divi” 😉

    • If they start selling low priced food here, it will only give IDS the opportunity to reduce benefits to accommodate low prices, the funny thing is they reduced benefits for those with extra bedrooms, so that they could give the money to renovation schemes on the public/private housing that needed updating at the expense of the poorest, then started charging them council tax too.

      • Too right, guy… it’s a trap! Set and sprung by middle-class knob-heads or whoever is behind these schemes. If these ‘benefit supermarkets’ get a grip, and no doubt they will come will all sort of ‘conditionality’, there will be ‘furore’ and a ‘public clamour’ for benefits to be cut – it is not like IDS will have any choice… 😉 … and once benefits have been cut to the bones these ‘benefit supermarkets’ will mysteriously disappear, morph into something else or just shut up shop. Instead of ‘foodbanks’ and ‘benefit supermarkets’ what is required is an INCREASE in benefits to enable those on benefits to be able to afford a balanced and nourishing diet on the same playing field as everyone else. Let us not loose sight of the ball.

      • overburdenddonkey

        so you think if supermarkets increase prices this will be a good thing as it will drive up benefits?…a basic citizens income is what we need in line with 40% increase in benefits, ESC advocate…BCI is proven time and time to drastically improve lives and economic activity…–benefits-and-high-taxes-make-us-all-richer-while-inequality-takes-a-hammer-to-a-countrys-growth-9914941.html
        a chip fryer gets £13/hr + massive benefits in denmark, no one, rich no one poor, common weal…

        • OBD

          If a chip fryer gets £13 per hour, they don’t need a citizens income, I am against it in priciple as a universal benefit.

          • overburdenddonkey

            that someone getting paid £13/hr is the point of a state that distributes wealth, through taxation, as does a BCI, it amounts to the same thing…

            • No it does not, as long as we are using money as currency, a universal income will make the already rich richer and should therefore only be paid to those whose incomes are eaten up by inflation, leaving them with a shortfall to live on.

              What if a bag of chips cost £5.00 due to inflation the chip fryer could be out of a job due to the high cost and people not buying, or his wages would not be enough to buy him a bag of chips.
              The rich could still afford it no matter what.

              • ps how much would you have to tax millionaires or billionaires to bring them down to the fish fryers income and what you call equality and fair distribution?

              • overburdenddonkey

                will you come up with an economic model of wealth distribution/solution that we can all agree on…?

                • As long as you have greedy people and manipulation in markets and the economy favouring the rich, you will never get an egalitarian society.

                  Everybody learning a skill of sorts and bartering would be the fairest economy and enough food, clothing and shelter for those who are incapable of doing so, it would also have to be worldwide.

                  Making money and assets as currency obsolete, would make the lion lay down with the lamb, but it would not guarantee that one would still not leach off the other.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  i asked a very reasonable question, please can you answer it in a reasonable way…

                • To be reasonable you have to be realistic and buying into the middleclasses ideal of reasonable’ a UNIVERSAL citizens income,’ is not realistic for those without wealth or assets that can accrue wealth for them.

                  Other than emulating the French Revolution, I can’t see the rich giving up their wealth unless forced to by the masses, if they can get past the brainwashed police state or armed forces first.

                  I do know that a citizens income would leave those at the bottom of the economic pile still doing all of the donkey work for low wages if needed or living off meagre basics if not, while those who remain in administration and so called research, protect their jobs and incomes to the hilt, demanding respected status as well as the lions share of income.

                  The NHS has become a black hole to pour money into like trident, yet all we see are waiting lists, hospital closures and cuts while money is circumvented to the rich.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  ‘will you come up with an economic model of wealth distribution/solution that we can all agree on…?’ this is the question that i asked, can you answer it or not? all you’re saying @ the moment is that change is impossible and there is no solution, human beings are bad, some are but they are not born that way…
                  but many countries have found solutions to this ie denmark, norway, iceland, finland.. norway even have a £500bn oil fund…we have to start moving in the right direction…there is plenty of evidence that a BCI works, and also saves £bns…
                  but it would be administered through the tax system…
                  land rights is another way with food coops food growing coops, work share eco homes and villages, perma-culture, etc etc, i’ve said all of this many many times before….all doable, reasonable, and realistic….

                • The Scandinavian countries do have fairer systems, but the working class are all expected to work, not stay at home and nurture their own children. There is too much institutional organization for my liking and works a bit like the Russian communist system.

                  Most have accepted that way of life now, but I’m sure there is still a lot of inequality in these countries.

                  Again a basic income in India that has no state safety net is favoured by those who have nothing obviously, but it does not mean it is fair or equal.
                  Just because you have written about it or posted favourable propaganda on it does not mean everyone is convinced that it is any better than what we have now.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  i’m done posting to you goodbye…

                • OBD

                  Anyone who disagrees with you’re ideology is automatically given the brush off by you and you call yourself reasonable.

                • typo your not you’re.

                • Black Mirror:White Christmas

                  You’ve been ‘blocked’ guy 😀

                • BMWC

                  Story of my life! Debate is about difference of opinion, not blind acceptance of one ideology.

                • ps When I was talking about people leaching off others, as usual OBD got the wrong end of the stick.
                  I was referring to the rich being brought down to working class level economically and leaching.
                  Past TV documentaries saw tory politicians trying to live on dole money and failing miserably, scrounging drinks off people in the pub and money to buy heating.

                • Charlie Booker

                  That was scary piece of shit that BM:WC. Anyone could just like ‘block’ you, and all you would see is a grey silhouette of them; say if the missus ‘blocked’ you you couldn’t even see your kid – literally! Pity the poor guy at the end who was ‘put on the register’ meaning that he was ‘blocked’ by ‘everyone’ meaning all he could see was grey silhouettes of people and all they could see was a grey silhouette of them that you couldn’t communicate with! And pity the other poor guy stuck in the kitchen at the end who the cops put on a one minute lasting for one thousand years cycle – with this shit from Wizard – I wish it could be Christmas everyday * playing constantly, and driving him mad, but every time he smashed the radio another one appeared with this shit playing! Only a twisted mind like Charlie Booker could come up with that sick shit lol

                  * Wizard have not received any royalties and Slade can fuck of too.

                  PS guy it will be a scary society in the future, and it is getting that way, that the minute you disagree with someone’s opinion, don’t dance to their tune, see their way of thinking you are ‘blocked’ instantly, no argument, no reasoning, no discourse, no negotiation, no ifs-no buts – you are ‘blocked’!

                • Charlie Booker

                  Fuck, where is the vid… or has Wizard been blocked… 😀

                • Slade - Knobhead Holder

                  Where’s me royalties…… 😉

                • overburdenddonkey

                  posted for others who seek change…
                  ‘ps When I was talking about people leaching off others, as usual OBD got the wrong end of the stick.’
                  …..’I was referring to the rich being brought down to working class level economically and leaching.’…..
                  i saw that as exactly what you were saying…revolution may vent for a while but ultimately it changes nothing…the change is to read the works of dr alice miller, dr bob johnson, their work stops leeches and parasites, ie bad parents… BOOTS THEM OUT OF OCCUPYING HEAD SPACE AND FROM FURTHER GETTING INTO HEAD SPACE UNLESS INVITED and/or enforced cooperation fight and resist tyranny, ie do not cooperate with it… …now i answer this because my mission is to get their work out there so as to empower people to say ‘no! get lost’ and i also offer proven alternatives to this shit imperialist system that currently subjugates us..
                  look @ the alternatives that i have suggested leading to perma-culture see what IS possible and insist on it…skara brea…dump masters…no weapons of any description have been found there….also be aware of the knowledge that was already established @ time of building it 5000+yrs ago… the idea is to be less and less dependent on money, including ‘lets’ schemes, and bartering/pleading for life…common weal…no one rich no one poor…tax the rich feed and house the poor, then no one is poor and all are = in having vitals of life…land rights also distributes wealth…see walter segal self build…problem how to get planning with no specific land/smallholding rights…? fact; most of pop squeezed into 3m of 60m acres in UK…fact; building millions more (eco) homes lowers housing costs…self build lowers costs even more….fact; working together lowers costs for all….fact; i one has a decent roof over head and access to enough vitals of life for life, who cares if the next door neighbour is a billionaire or was once so and now ‘dragged/brought down to the level of the working class’ what a joy that would be imo?

                • In 1963 Teeside archelogical society unearthed a Roman village just along the road from where I live and many more besides along the north east coast, so we have plenty of historical village life, but it did not mean it was not a part of a larger power.

                • White Christmas sold most copies and had more royalties than the royals.

              • Yes exactly the problem , the rich don’t batter an eyelid at high prices , they relish in it , we are all swimming in an ocean and they are the only only ones who can afford a life jacket , they know this , and people just don’t see it , the fact that a fine is nothing to the rich , nothing bothers them , but the poor have devastating life changing problems from something as simple as a parking fine for parking on faded yellow lines . , the £60 fine can affect their rent that leads to being homeless facing living in a caravan laws and twisted illegal camping laws . the system is so unfair and one sided, its legal robbery .. Money is a tool of en slavery used by manipulators all down the ages . Its time to change everything .Share the wealth or get rid of money so everyone can be free to live their lives . share the land . put the rich in boats with all the paper money and float them off . Lets get back to barter so the tax man will have to take turnips and carrots off everyone instead . /not joking , barter is needed before the digital swipe card takes over from paper money , as then the future holds , your card and passport switched off and money digitally removed , then new soup kitchen laws and standing still laws in place , with a bar code on the forehead. waiting to be removed and placed in I.D.S new work related activity probation group , and a criminal anti social record for being poor.

  32. That supermarket for benefit claimants is on the condition that they sign up to a course. It’s a bit like a bribe to volunteer for confidence building type courses and to be revised after six months. Someone is going to make money from the idea.

  33. Pingback: As Hunger Soars Iain Duncan Smith Is Still Hiding The Existence Of Emergency Benefit Delay Loans | stewilko's Blog

  34. Pingback: Benefit Delays Set To Soar As Waiting Period Increases To Pay For Workfare | the void

  35. Black Mirror:White Christmas

    IDS is a good man who has done bad things 😀

  36. Murderer

    • The delays in benefit payments are a deliberate attempt to drive people to crime so that they can be placed in prison on the tax payers backs (pass the book) .If the delays are as they say due to the “backlog of paperwork “then why the hell don’t they take all the unemployed off the dole and shove them behind a desk to sort it out? Also the shortage of people to answer the disheartening vanishing phone service as everyone sits tapping their foot waiting listening to a worn out brainwashing musical tone ,many a person could do that job , why the big shortage ? Its all deliberate premeditated messing about that’s driving people into crime or into the soup kitchens , in this day and age , its beyond comprehension , The matter could be sorted out by a competent government easy , All they have to do is think long and hard that the people of the country , are the country ,the people who was always on standby for the event of war breaking out to lay their lives down for the country , but for reasons of health or to unemployment due to no jobs worth having, this is how they get treated in return . A competent government would make sure everyone is secure in their own country ,and see soup kitchens as an embarrassment and their own failure to govern the economy .

  37. wakeupbeforeitstoolate

    Reblogged this on Wake Up Before It's Too Late and commented:
    This is getting beyond belief…

  38. What this government is doing to the disabled is a disgrace it will not be forgotten when we vote.
    They should sort out imagration and how they abuse are nhs and welfare system as well as giving billions to countries that what to kill our forces

  39. People waiting for their benefits to be processed, in many parts of the UK, can access their local council’s welfare fund. In Scotland search for Scottish Welfare Fund . In the rest of the UK best to check your local council’s webpage for info.

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