G4S Ride To The DWP’s Rescue, Bungling Fraud Suspects Handed Huge Government Contract

g4s-workfareSeveral hours after the DWP’s £300 million mass workfare scheme began and the DWP have finally decided who’s going to be running it.  The Financial Times are reporting that G4s will operate the flagship contract to provide Community Work Placements in six regions.  This is despite the fact that up until just over two weeks ago they were still mired in a Cabinet Investigation over fraud allegations.   The company are still under investigation by the Serious Fraud Office after over-charging huge sums on their electronic tagging contract.  Other companies with their snouts in the workfare trough include Pertemps, Seetec and Interserve.

G4S will use their experience fucking up the Work Programme to fuck up the Help To Work scheme of which the unpaid workfare placements are a key part.  Quoted in The FT, Sean Williams, managing director of G4S employment support services, said:  “Building on our experience on the Work Programme, we will work through a network of specialist, experienced organisations from the public, private and charitable sector, to ensure that claimants are given real, relevant work experience which will improve their long-term employment prospects.”

Already the new Community Work Placements are mired in chaos with the DWP claiming the scheme had been launched even before contractors had been announced.  The placements are also proving hugely unpopular – over 50 charities and voluntary sector organisations signed up to the Keep Volunteering Voluntary agreement on the campaign’s first day.  Liverpool Council have said they will boycott the placements, calling them “immoral and unworkable”.  Which to be fair is the kind of thing G4S are good at.  But they won’t do much to help the image problem of this exploitative scheme which is currently being roundly rejected by the real voluntary sector.

For some of the many and varied reasons why G4S are a bunch of wankers visit http://www.stopg4s.net/

To join the fightback against Community Work Placements and all workfare go to: http://www.boycottworkfare.org/

Follow me on twitter @johnnyvoid

232 responses to “G4S Ride To The DWP’s Rescue, Bungling Fraud Suspects Handed Huge Government Contract

  1. The involvement of G4$ explains why the Department of Deceit and Sanctions kept a tight lid on publicity for the launch

    Now it’ll hit the fan

  2. More to the point, can you say conflict of interest? It’s clearly in G4S’s interest not to get claimants into paid employment while they’re on the WP with G4S so then G4S can have another big bite from the public cherry (ewwww!) when claimants are referred to them though Help to Work. Anyway, if G4S can’t get people into work though two years of WP how can they be expected to get them into work through HtW?

    • Another Fine mess

      And then to sanction then into committing petty crime, then charge them in a G4S court and then on to a G4S prison. What could possibly go wrong.

      • It’ s time their G4S dynasty was halted, they are all a pack of wooden tops, specialists my bum.

      • “ENTERED THE TRIBUNAL AT 10.00AM, BACK HOME FOR 11,00AM”

        I THOUGHT IT STRANGE WHEN I TURNED UP FOR MY TRIBUNAL AT 10AM AND THERE WAS NO NOTICES ON THE COURTROOM BOARDS OUTSIDE.
        THERE ARE USUALLY SIGNS UP EXPLAINING THE HEARINGS AND AT WHAT COURTROOM, AND WHO IS PRESIDING……………….

        MY REPRESENTATIVE FROM DISABILITY ACTION GROUP, SCARBOROUGH, MET ME OUTSIDE THE CHAMBERS.
        UPON BEING SUMMONED INTO THE ROOM I WAS MET BY NONE OTHER THAN JUDGE DAVID WALL AND A FEMALE SAT TO HIS LEFT………..

        WHAT WAS THIS SAME JUDGE, WHO RECENTLY MADE A DECISION ON STOPPING MY DLA, DOING AT THIS HEARING?

        SURELY IT WAS NOT A MISTAKE?

        AS I ENTERED THE COURT HE ANNOUNCED HIMSELF AND THE FEMALE DOCTOR SAT BESIDE HIM.

        I SAID THAT I DON’T WANT TO BE RUDE, BUT I AM NOT ATTENDING A JUDGEMENT, WITH YOU PRESIDING BECAUSE IT IS NEITHER, FAIR, INDEPENDENT OR IMPARTIAL.

        HE ASKED MY REPRESENTATIVE WHO ALSO SAID IT WAS ODD FOR HIM TO BE ON THE PANEL.

        JUDGE WALL ASKED US TO GO OUTSIDE…………..

        ON CALLING US BACK IN, HE STATED THAT I MUST EXPRESS AN OPINION WHY THE TRIBUNAL SHOULD GO AHEAD.

        I TOLD HIM THAT HE HAD BEEN AT AN EARLIER TRIBUNAL THAT TOOK AWAY MY INCOME AND I HAD BEEN SURVIVING ON £32.32P SINCE LAST JULY.

        I TOLD HIM AND HIS COLLEAGUE THAT I SAW THEM AS PARASITES WHO FILL THEIR BLOATED WALLETS ON THE BACKS OF THOSE DISABLED WHO THEY STEAL THE BENEFITS FROM!

        HE SAID, THAT’S YOUR OPINION AND I SAID NO, THE OPINION OF ALL THE DISABLED OUT THERE.

        EVERYTHING I SAID HE WROTE DOWN, BECOMING RATHER FLUSTERED, ASKING ME TO SLOW DOWN……….

        I WENT ON TO SAY THAT HE, AT THE LAST TRIBUNAL HAD IGNORED, EQUALITY LAW, DISABILITY DISCRIMINATION LAW AND HUMAN RIGHT LAW, MAKING IT EVIDENT THAT THE DWP WERE DISCRIMINATING AGAINST ME FOR NOT ALLOWING ME THE MINIMUM AMOUNT TO SURVIVE, ESPECIALLY BEING REGISTERED AS DISABLED.

        NEVERTHELESS, HE ASKED US TO LEAVE THE COURTROOM AND TO COME BACK WHEN CALLED………..

        ON BEING CALLED BACK IN, I ASKED THE FEMALE DOCTOR IF SHE WAS TRAINED IN MUSCULOSKELETAL INJURIES OF THE SPINE AND IT’S EFFECT ON THE NERVOUS SYSTEM, IMPACTING ON THE BLADDER.

        JUDGE WALL SAID YOU CANNOT ASK HER THAT, YOU MUST POSE THE QUESTION THROUGH ME.
        AGAIN I ASKED THE QUESTION AND THE JUDGE DECIDED TO ANSWER, SAYING, “WE ARE A TEAM OF SPECIALISTS, NOT EXPERTS”

        I ASKED IF THEY ARE NOT EXPERTS, HOW CAN THEY MAKE A DECISION ON SOMEONES HEALTH ISSUES?

        THE JUDGE SAID SHE IS A QUALIFIED DOCTOR, QUALIFIED ENOUGH TO READ GP’S NOTES.

        THE JUDGE ASKED US TO ADJOURN ONCE MORE…………….

        ON CALLING US BACK IN, HE ANNOUNCED THAT AFTER JOINT CONSULTATION WITH THE DOCTOR, THEY WOULD PRESS AHEAD WITH THE TRIBUNAL, DESPITE OUR OBJECTIONS…..

        I SAID, “OVER MY DEAD BODY” AND I WALKED OUT OF THE CHAMBER.

        SHORTLY AFTER, MY REPRESENTATIVE CAME OUT AND SAID THAT HE HAD STATED THE CASE SHOULD NOT CONTINUE…………….

        WHILST IN THE ROOM I TOLD JUDGE WALL THAT I WAS APPLYING TO COUNTY COURT TO SUE ATOS FOR THE AMOUNT OF MONEY I HAD LOST DUE TO A BIASED, INCORRECT AND LOW QUALITY MEDICAL REPORT…………

        THE JUDGE HASTILY WROTE THIS DOWN……………
        Reply

        • overburdenddonkey

          geoff
          the system is stacked against us, in every way it possibly can be..imho, that is not the way to do it geoff…yes tell them of the conflict, if they do not adjourn, ensure that they note it, but carry on with the time consuming, draining, nightmarish, farce….what do you do now, you must be wondering that? they will very likely make the decision on your entitlement with or without you input…if the decision, if it has been made at all, is for no entitlement which i think you must assume it is, although there is a chance it might not be… write to the FtT now tell them your reasons, while it is all going on and fresh in your mind ie today, ask for a statement of reasons, ask for a set aside conflict of interest it made you uneasy, disconcerted and unsettled, and if not leave to appeal to UT tribunal, also mention that when you receive the SoR, you may well add to your existing statement, tell them your intentions and reasons why now!….if they refuse then apply directly to the UT tribunal….NB, they will very likely make the decision on your entitlement with or without you input….

        • Keep on keeping on Geoff, you WILL get there in the end. Best wishes x

        • That is just shit, Geoff, the way you have been treated. It’s just a mockery. My sister when asking for a reconsideration of her claim a couple of years ago had the same guy who’d made the original decision reconsider it. Nothing independent or impartial. You fight for your rights – good on you.

        • Sorry to hear this Geoff but keep fighting the scum all the way and try to make life as difficult as possible for them.

          The DWP have got together with all these bodies and organisations and colluded with them as to how to steal people’s benefits through denial or sanctions.

          Low life scum they are.

        • Geoff, You are an inspiration to many people. Keep on fighting – one day all the scum who have done this to you and to others will all be brought to account.

        • Were you so BOLD as to speak to them with such BOLDness flowing though chief? If I were any judge I’d throw your BOLDness out of court and have you done for BOLDness contempt. Although no doubt we’ll now be confronted with the BOLDness of certain disabilities fail to acknowledge caps lock but still allow a bleeding epic to be typed eh?

          • //Although no doubt we’ll now be confronted with the BOLDness of certain disabilities fail to acknowledge caps lock but still allow a bleeding epic to be typed eh?//

            You know something, it’s easier to read sentences written in proper syntax and in all caps than sentences in lower case that don’t make grammatical sense.

            I genuinely can’t tell whether you’re supporting Geoff or trying to take the piss, I hope you’re not trying to take the piss though.

          • Despite claiming to be the omniscient being, you obviously do not know the difference between typing in bold and typing in capitals.

        • Geoff, would you mind please not leaving the caps lock on? It makes your posts look like a shouty rant. More orthodox punctuation would help you get your point across better.

          • Geoff, would you please leave the caps lock on? It is much easier to read than if you just used lower case. Apologies to all of you who use all lower case, and I’m not criticising you or saying you should alter this, but I find capitals much more readable.

  3. …..How can a company that was banned from all Government contracts be given a new one worth hundreds of millions? I would like to see that questioned in the media….the better minded media that is.
    Not that we expect the party that used to be “Labour” to say much.

    • “How can a company that was banned from all Government contracts be given a new one worth hundreds of millions?”
      and;
      “This is despite the fact that up until recently they were banned from carrying out new public sector contracts due to concerns about fraud.”
      coupled with;
      “It comes less than three weeks after the British government lifted a ban on G4S bidding for public sector work”
      http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4f9118a6-ceed-11e3-9165-00144feabdc0.html#axzz30Dq0fWek

      Suggests there has been some ‘dodgy dealing’ going on here.

      Contract negotiations must have been underway for more than ” three weeks”. If they weren’t, then there is definitely something wrong with the contract.. If the negotiations have been going on or more than ‘three weeks’ the DWP have breached government regulations

      Either way, there is something about the ‘contract’ and the negotiations that ‘stinks’

  4. Now why does that not surprise me. The one firm that is probably the worst of the lot gets the contract. The ones who are used to dealing with criminals (like themselves) are now to criminalise the unemployed.

  5. And who foots the bill for these people going on work schemes bound to fail, Thats right you the tax payer so any employer can get you for free and make a ton of money at your work and expense

  6. These people forced onto these community work placements work for free and the employer makes a ton of money of you the tax payer whos footed the bill. No need to pay a wage when employers can have them for free. how do you all feel about that?

  7. Let’s fucking destroy these cunts.

  8. If you know anyone voting NO then they are fucking SCUM. Tell them that.

  9. I hope my boss is bigger than me. Fucking cunt is going to get a kick in the balls.

  10. We should be taking to the fucking streets but it ain’t happening… Fucking x-factor with dodgy presenters and fucking corrie with dodgy stars. Fucking sick of this country.

  11. Hi max clifford ya fucking dick

  12. So yep I’m pretty much unemployable and I’m going to get shit for 6 months and then maybe this six month thing will continue forever every few months after it finishes. They really want mass suicides but listen up lads/ladies. We have to defeat this and stand strong. Please be strong.

  13. Geoff how did you get on, please tell me you won.

    • GEOFF REYNOLDS

      They tried to continue using the same judge who took away my DLA about a month back…………

      i walked out, see above for details.

  14. I don’t know whether to laugh at the shambles of G4S or cry for the potential harm they will do.

  15. I think if ye post in a blog like this the man gets alerted and they spy on you! This is a good coming together of like minded people. We are all probably on some cunts database right now getting dissected. Fuck you mr dissected man!

  16. no body works 30 hours unpaid it wont work at all as they want paid work not unpaid

  17. G4S community payback and electronic tagging, why am I not surprised?

  18. It is also quite clear from the FT report that G4$ will be sub-contracting to local ‘providers’
    “Sean Williams, managing director of G4S employment support services, said: “Building on our experience on the Work Programme, we will work through a network of specialist, experienced organisations from the public, private and charitable sector, to ensure that claimants are given real, relevant work experience which will improve their long-term employment prospects”.

    • Translation: We’ll get the money, cream off a lot of profit for doing nothing but arranging sub-contracts to make it look as if we got the contract and work, and will only let the cheapest quotes get the bulk of the real work but will hide who has it, so they can say “we’re not involved with workfaire” while they sack their existing staff to make a profit from the fees charged to g4$ to get the work v actual business beneift of slave labour.

      Personally if I was put on one of the workfair schemes I would be very tempted to appropriate a yellow triangle or star pined to my chest where ever I was placed as a method of protest… jsut imagine being on a tescos workfair till wearing that, probably won’t go down very well.

      • I think the proud wearing of some kind of symbol as a protest is a great idea, but I don’t think a yellow star is perhaps the best symbol – it might be interpreted in the wrong way – take a look here:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badges

        You will see that there is quite a wide choice. I’d suggest that a black triangle was worn, as it neatly fits the category nearest to the way that the government portrays us as, i.e. ‘workshy’.

        It’s a brilliant idea though – so perhaps we should all adopt the black triangle in a way that subverts it’s original purpose, rather as has happened with the pink triangle.

  19. Labour’s response?
    According to the Disability News Service;
    “Labour’s Stephen Timms added:
    ““A Labour government will introduce a Basic Skills Test to assess all new claimants for Jobseeker’s Allowance within six weeks of claiming benefits.
    “Those who don’t have the skills they need for a job will have to take up training alongside their job search or lose their benefits. Labour’s Basic Skills Test and our Compulsory Jobs Guarantee will give the unemployed a better chance of finding a job and will help us to earn our way out of the cost-of-living crisis.”
    http://welfarenewsservice.com/long-term-unemployed-expected-to-work-for-their-benefits-in-launch-of-new-government-scheme/

    One is reminded of the aside by W.A. Green in their discussion of the ‘freed people’ of the Caribbean in 1834

    “In labour relations, most planting attorneys and managers were unable to overcome their habitual reliance on force and intimidation….Neither slaves nor planters were consoled by apprenticeship. The former wanted…freedom. The latter, resenting their loss of arbitrary power, feared the disintegration of a social system which had provided them with the highest rank and authority.” [Green , Slave Emancipation. Oxford, 1976. p.131]

    • You just gotta love the term; ‘Us’. Cost of living crisis? Us?
      I can tell you for a fact my local Asda store just went through a half million £ refurb, and they put in 20 more self service tiils but the budget cookies went up 20%.As an example.
      Can this jizz wipe give you an example? No.
      Because the fuckwit is laughing inside his head so hard as his mouth spouts this shit he can barely focus.
      Congrats Mdme Timms. If it ever comes you will be amongst the first
      against the wall.

  20. ‘Help , to , Work’. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha , Somebody please STOP ME!
    Interviewer; ;
    ‘O.K. Mr Bloggs, why should I give you this job as executive head of Black Mesa’s anomalous materials research and development unit?’
    Candidate; Erm, cos I been on the job centre work program thingy, and I filled a whole sack with condoms from the verge of the A 12.”
    Interviewer; Tell me Mr Bloggs. Do you consider yourself adept in the use of a ‘Hazardous Environment Suit’?
    Candidate; ‘Well, I did wear rubber gloves’..
    Interviewer; ‘Have you ever traveled trans dimensionally, killed a hostile alien sentient creature , or generally acted in good faith regarding the continuation of Human kind.Earth and its sub species?’
    Candidate; ‘It was in Essex’
    Interviewer; ‘Could you in a life threatening situation pass a simple sentience test?’
    Candidate; ‘ I took the travel allowance forms to the bird in the office.
    You know;Claire_with the Jugs..
    G man; ‘Mr Bloggs. Can you tell me which end of a crowbar is the business end?’
    Candidate;’We used Litter pickers. Except them twats that came late, they only got Marigolds’.
    G man; ‘If you were trapped under water with an Alien Soogar, would you use your spaz 12 shotgun, glock 17 or Reason to to stop it attacking you?’
    Candidate;’Allen wouldnt attack me, I have an amstrad discount card.’
    G man; ‘Thank you Mr Bloggs. Please ignore the Vortigaunt security guard who will direct you to the exit portal, I suspect he is going to direct
    your arrival point to the middle of his pet antlion nest’.
    Candidate; ‘If A4e ring up, can you tell them I was keen?’
    G man; I think they will be busy dealing with ‘Unforeseen Consequences’, shortly. Good day Mr Bloggs, Rise and Shine.

  21. There is some worry though,in a DWP Memorandum anybody found to be purposely causing damage or disruption while on the programme will be prosecuted,passive resistance,a loose bolt,discarded fag Ect,Ect….

    • Hi jray that sounds most interesting. Could you supply a link for that I would like to read more. Thanks in advance, Still Oaks.

      • It still remains a form of compulsory, or directed labour, and whilst extremely poorly paid, it isn’t (quite) slavery. It is, however, very similar to the forced labour schemes imposed by the Nazi regime on peoples from occupied territories who were forced to work for a pittance. It wasn’t very efficient, and much of what was produced was pretty useless. In order to prosecute there would still need to be evidence…

        There are myriad ways of messing things up that ostensibly leave no traces whatsoever – consider the scheme used by some of the resistance movement in France where destination tags on railway wagons were swapped around resulting in cargoes being misdirected. There are plenty of other ways that could ensure that the big supermarkets shy away from abusing us, and that will come down to us making sure that it costs them more than it’s worth to have workers for free.

    • Oh so now here we have it!! So9meone going on it and objecting and refusing to toil away for nothing is gonna be prosecuted for exercising that right!!

      I’m ashamed to live in this friggin’ police state. This country is pathetic.

  22. Well it will be joined up G4S run the welfare thing, the community sentences and some prisons so if you mess up with your work they will tag you for a first sanction, then imprison you for a second, that’s all as long as they actually don’t lose you of course. How is it that a company with a track record of failure can be given the contract in the first place?

  23. Reblogged this on Beastrabban’s Weblog.

  24. Shouldn’t the Monopoly Commission be looking at this by now? Do they still exist? Have they ever had any teeth?

  25. fuck ids karma you cunt

    my adviser yesterday at the department for deceit and sanctions , said ” oh i can see you have not given us access to your ujm account” erm no mate i have not!! ”well you do know this is to become mandatory don’t you!! not arsed mate am only on jsa to get one giro then back on esa then when the atos medical looms back on jsa equals no sanctions fuck em!!

    • Since when will it become mandatory for claimants do give JCP acces to UJ accounts? It’s the first Ive heard about it. I think your adviser’s just trying it on. Tell the fucker to put it writing.

    • Yerse. What I admire about these systems is that
      1) They are thought up by some fuckwitt who is miles behind the end user on the ‘Brains’ front,
      and
      2) See point 1.
      There really is no fugging hope for the Tory ideal of a slave economy,because putting it simply they couldnt organise a root in a Brothel with a fist full of Fifties.
      Thankfully the inbreeding keeps them neutered.
      For further ref ‘fuckwitt’ see George Smith (FW esq)
      and D.Chameleon, Direction and chinless greedy useless cunt FW extraordinare.

  26. fuck ids karma you cunt

    @jjjoop he said it will become mandatory from june this year

    • Obi Wan Kenobi

      DWP/JCP UJM access will never become mandatory because there’s one little (or really big) thing standing in the way – it’s called ‘The Data Protection Act’ (DPA).

      The government (especially the DWP) are at a total loss to get around it.

      • fuck ids karma you cunt!

        my adviser must of been bull shitting then, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it did become mandatory

      • IDS will just scrap Data Protection, it will go to court and he will just do it retrospectively, no questions asked

      • Probably because they know that in order to pass a law to make us give them access would mean changing the DPA in a way that would affect everyone, and I can’t see them getting away with that just yet – there are too many powerful people who wouldn’t stand for that!

    • Pantomime crowd

      Oh no it wont !

  27. You couldn’t make it up. I’m annoyed that I lack the talent to make this shit up.

  28. Reblogged this on paul8ar and commented:
    how to get tory contracts – be dirty rotten fraudsters. the vile G4s

  29. Get EVERYTHING IN WRITING ,!!!! C’mon there unemployable ffs lmao no not really this is the future and were sitting down to it ???,!?!!

  30. fuck ids karma you cunt

    i’m not arsed i only ever get one giro from jsa then straight back to esa then when the medical looms go on jsa again not been sanctioned once doing this fuck em i cant look for work with no money it’s as simple as that!

  31. no surprise, we knew it would be another private company taking over, they’re all in it together. George Orwell 1984 … he just got the year wrong. All by design folks, all by design

    • It has been going on since before 1984 with shitty work programmes and miscarriages of justice.

      • Naww, be fair. The yts etc was a good intro to work for the youngsters then. It was never what this exploitative shit is about.

        • Agreed Mail Scum. Before YTS in the 70s it was things like TOPS and YOPS. But the courses on offer then were much more varied, you got something like £10 over you dole which was a fair old amount back in the day and – here’s the biggest difference – they were voluntary! (TOPS was anyway)

          • Wow £10 on top of your dole! The only difference then was that there were jobs for you to go to then, not that the wage was much better back then either, you needed two incomes to get a mortgage.

            • A few more jobs anyway! Though we all thought it was terrible when unemployment hit a million back in 75. Now a million seems quite low, (relatively speaking)😉

              • overburdenddonkey

                moggy
                i agree the £10 in ’75 feed one well for a week back then…it was worth £70.11 (in ’77 £52) into today’s money adjusted for inflation…was it 25% more than the dole, or perhaps even more pro-rata?
                relatively speaking wages were higher then as well, student grants were good, the dole was fairly high + earnings related at a much higher rate than now and for 6mths, i think….the docks/factories in the south were bursting with workers, as was industry in general…i left a good job in ’76, what a great summer that was, i changed employers doing the same job my wages doubled….

                • overburdenddonkey

                  p s moggy
                  just being out of work back then, was seen as punishment/bad enough, without all the sanction/conditionalty crap of today…it was, no work how terrible….

                • Exactly true, obd

                • Those were the days, obd. Yes, it was all so much better back then. 75 was a long hot summer too, it just went on and on into September and October…

                • overburdenddonkey

                  moggy
                  yeah, them were the days, i took my family for 3wks camping in cornwall, late fish suppers @ the harbour, loadsa beer and wine, fantastic times…
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_United_Kingdom_heat_wave

                • Obd, yes, I had a week’s holiday in Llandudno last week of August in 76, it was hot and sunny every day until the last day when the weather broke. September 76 was quite shit. Sept 75 and October 75 were an extension of the summer which is why we had such a drought in 76 after the long hot summer of 75…

          • £10 over basic JSA is still a big deal!

  32. Teresa May’s husband is a director of g4s

    • Only ever shocked by Blatent Outright Fraud

      ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED!

    • I can’t see her husband mentioned on the G4S site at all. All I’ve found is a comment on FB that her husband has shares in G4S. He isn’t showing up as a director or named on the boards.

      I wonder if she has ever declared that her banker husband has those shares?

  33. Nice little servitude chain linking up.

    It is also quite clear from the FT report that G4$ will be sub-contracting to local ‘providers’.

    DWP + G4S + subcontractor = human trafficking

  34. Pingback: G4S Ride To The DWP’s Rescue, Bungling Fraud Suspects Handed Huge Government Contract | the void | Launchpad: By and for mental health service users

  35. Obi Wan Kenobi

    Help to Work?

    Making the unemployed attend a jobcentre every day, or work unpaid, isn’t a helping hand, it’s a punishing one.

    Forcing people into unpaid labour contradicts the spirit of volunteering, it is just thankless drudgery, insisting that people visit the jobcentre every day for intensive coaching as an alternative to unpaid work is no less futile, it ties them to one place and robs them of control over their own lives.

    Being under a futile obligation will ratchet up a sense of worthlessness, so this initiative can only be understood as an additional punishment for long-term unemployed people.

    This helps to justify a punitive welfare regime.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/28/help-to-work-britains-jobless-forced-workfare-unemployed?CMP=twt_gu

    • choc chip cookies up 10 pence and that was yesterday

      The lowering of self esteem and self worth is important to the process of dehumanising a person so that they may work without question or personal regard at a pace dictated by others.
      Any Bastard tyrant.

    • So what happens after the six months “help to work” or the more accurately named Forced to Slave?
      Suggestions on a post card please.

      Also IDS and his gestapo need to look up the word “help” in the dictionary because even I know that there is a world of difference between FORCED and HELP.

      • Sheridan, after the six months of ‘help’ is up, IDS will say ‘you haven’t paid enough national insurance/tax for the previous 2 years and we cannot pay you any monies’. Therefore, we need to KICK HIS FUCKING HEAD IN

  36. The UK Human Trafficking Centre, part of the Organised Crime Command in the National Crime Agency, gives the following definition:

    Human trafficking is the movement of a person from one place to another into conditions of exploitation, using deception, coercion, the abuse of power or the abuse of someone’s vulnerability. It is possible to be a victim of trafficking even if your consent has been given to being moved. Although human trafficking often involves an international cross-border element, it is also possible to be a victim of human trafficking within your own country.

    There are three main elements:
     The movement – recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of people
     The control – threat, use of force, coercion, abduction, fraud, deception, abuse of power or vulnerability, or the giving of payments or benefits to a person in control of the victim
     The purpose – exploitation of a person, which includes prostitution and other sexual exploitation, forced labour, slavery or similar practices, and the removal of organs

  37. So this is really just an extension of the WP, which has failed. More public money as a reward of failure to crooks and fraudsters.

    What are these companies expected to be doing? If someone is on 6 month workfare, what is the involvement of G4S mean to be? Why would they b needed if someone is signing daily? Are these the ‘training’ providers? Oh dear!

  38. This isn’t good as G4S aren’t exactly known for diplomacy and appear to mainly consist of bouncer type middle management types whom wouldn’t look out of place on an EDL rally. The notion of them attempting to shepherd the deemed-to-be-fit-to-work-disabled and/or timid of personality is quite alarming in itself and that’s without taking into consideration their chequered media profile We can only assume here that the gloves are finally off and the Tories are attempting strong arm/bullying tactics which could lead to the jobless facing the following kind of treatment;

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-26665039

    The problem is we seem to be living in a society where the powers-that-be and media manipulation are portraying the vast majority of jobless as bone idle scroungers with the Daily Mail hordes lapping up the 24-7 flowing brown and runny material. And now it sounds like the Tory like Nazi regime have their own personal SS in the form of G4S. I can’t say the idea of being herded around by ex-bouncers and wannabe coppers is going to help anyone into work although obviously the potential for a ruck is staggering. Well done Tories; you never fail to royally f*ck up everything you put a hand to.

  39. choc chip cookies up 10 pence

    Well, if I get sent on one of these things, I want to get sent
    to ASDA’s because even the full time paid staff there only do what the wage is worth; which is bugger all.
    Asda still make a mint, so they must
    be a quality employer. Obviously the customer pays via shit produce, but who cares? Thousands walk in every minute.

  40. Does G4S have its sticky fingers in HS2? That could be the new opportunity for workfare – Britain’s own Burma Railway

    • It has been suggested already that this scheme could include being sent to HS2, and other projects such as the flood defence projects for sheer unskilled manual labour. all of which, we have at some time been told, will produce jobs…….

      • Another Fine mess

        A 400 tonne train travelling at 170mph on rails put together by workfare, what could possibly go wrong!

  41. Pingback: Biting Back Against ‘Help to Work’ Unpaid Labour. | Ipswich Unemployed Action.

  42. Landless Peasant

    Anti – G4S resources:

    http://stopg4s.net/stickers-posters

    • Considering the number of people who have died at the hands of G4S as they brutally cart desperate asylum seeking people back to developing countries, I think this reveals again the massive hypocrisy of Bill Gates.

      Doesn’t his Foundation purport to be helping the people of developing countries via their various programmes?

      obd – Need to contact you, could you drop me a line at sleepywonder AT outlook.co.uk please? Ta🙂

      • overburdenddonkey

        lucy
        obd – Need to contact you, could you drop me a line at….
        sorry no, posting here is as much as i can do atm….what with this that and the other going on, i do hope that you understand….possibly later in the year though…check out g4s activities globally, grim stuff…!

        • obd, I did check them out, they are hideous. I don’t want to get into a correspondence, just wanted to tell you something that I did yesterday which I wouldn’t have done if it hadn’t been for your encouragement. That’s all. No problem, I understand you are up to the hilt.

          Be well.

          • overburdenddonkey

            lucy
            keep on doing what ever you did that made you feel good/healthy ie released something, what ever it was, it was you who did it if what i said made sense, you knew that it did….when considering what ties everything together, rebus, said it’s funny “how the truth always makes sense” …i said something to someone once, at the outset of my healing, before i said it i felt a horrible guilt, fcuk it, i must say it, after i said it, the horrible guilt was gone…i had a fear/terror of speaking out…god grant me/us the wisdom etc etc…. warmest wishes….🙂 i think i’ll choose another OS for my computer, perhaps something linux, someone tell me is there an ethical one out there?

            • obd, Linux Ubuntu is supposed to be a good version of Linux to start with. It’s open source, so no dubious corporations involved, unless someone knows differently? I’ve used Linux a tiny bit, way back and got on ok with it. I can’t remember if it was the Ubuntu version I used.

              Since I can’t tell you directly, I’ll just say that I will be going to the Isle of Wight in June. I took a chance and it might just work out for me yet🙂

              • overburdenddonkey

                lucy
                i’ve been to the IoW, scores of times….even as a kid on the old paddle boats…bits keep dropping off, roads fall into the sea…i’m sure you’ll have fun, don’t forget your bucket and spade….and factor 200000 sun tan lotion…

              • Lucy is a hippy off to the isle of white festival!

                • *digs out velvet kaftan*

                  One of my old college tutors was instrumental in setting up the very first IoW festival.

              • Ubuntu is a fairly “turn key” version of Linux thats fairly easy to install and setup.

                Personally I prefer Debian (a bit harder to setup as you need to remember “non-free” for drivers) because its interface is clean, minimal, and fast with nothing fancy. Its the “XP” of linux, but bang up to date and not “retired” lol.

              • To obd,
                “lucy
                i gathered that much…”

                Ok, will leave it now, I think I must have made a mistake and thought you might like to know, as it was you who highlighted him again for me. I left a note on the thread where you got mobbed, to say thank you.

              • overburdenddonkey

                lucy
                but i did/do know from what you implied and i am pleased to know…warmest wishes, as always…

              • Linux Mint is better than Ubuntu these days. It comes complete with everything you need, e.g., the full Open Office, to do pretty much anything you like with a better GUI than Ubuntu’s Unity interface. Google or Bing it to find out more. It’s free and as good a distro as available. If you can hang on until the end of May you can download Linux Mint 17 which is an LTS (Long Term Support) release which will be good for years.

            • Hi OBD. Ubuntu is a good choice in that it’s user friendly, though whether it’s as ‘ethical’ as if could be remains questionable. There are concerns about liberties that the OS takes with your privacy by default, though it is possible to turn this off. If you want a completely ethical distro, then there is Blag! Linux:

              http://www.blagblagblag.org/

              Another popular Linux distro for beginners is Mint, which is regarded as ‘user friendly’ the most difficult option there would be choosing the desktop environment you want to use – with Linux there is a huge choice which can be a little mind numbing/overwhelming at times. If you’ve been used to Windows XP then I’d suggest going for a distro with the Xfce desktop, or for a distro like Lubuntu which has the LXDE desktop.

              The only ‘bad’ thing I could say about most recent Linux distros is that many no longer will fit on a CD and have to be burned to a DVD, (most distros, particularly the more user friendly ones include a lot of programs) However, both Blag! and Lubuntu will fit on a CD. I’m not sure about Blag, but Lubuntu will certainly also run as a Live CD which means you can run it from the CD to give it a try before you install it. You could also choose to install it as a dual boot with Windows, just make sure you defrag Windows before you attempt to install the Linux and then just follow the installation instructions.

              • overburdenddonkey

                sib
                thanks for the info….i’ll try ubuntu in due course….i don’t mind windows as an OS for what i do, but been meaning to change for a while now, gates involvement with g4s has given me the push…i’ll go for dual boot initially….

  43. being sent on 4 weeks mandatory work activity at age concern / uk, any advice please? thank you🙂

    • Contact Boycott Workfare, Age UK nationally say they are not part of MWA but I think some local stores might be, BW can follow it up though: info@boycottworkfare.org

      • thanks, age uk say this – “Local Age UKs are not ‘branches’ of Age UK, the national charity, but are independent local charities who are free to respond to the needs of their local communities as they think best.” – any other advice will be gratefully received..🙂

        • Stupid charities

          My Grandmother had 3 pensions coming in in her old age.
          She was pushing 90 when she died, and was the first to admit to not knowing exactly where to give away her money (the perfect granny? Indeed!).
          She worked for various charities for nothing in her retirement.-shop work mostly. Meeting people, helping people, the sort of contribution that can never be measured and only the very wise can give.
          If she had been told a charity shop was running under those business rules,she would have said
          ‘Well.you better hire some flipping staff then,because I am off”.
          A rule of thumb is anybody who gives there time freely is worth there weight in gold,whilst the time of somebody pressganged is not worth
          Jack shit. It is not a difficult concept.

        • Sometimes these branches of charities are not quite as independent as they would claim. With some large charities, the branches pay a huge yearly fee to the HQ for the right to use the logos, letterheads, name etc.

          If you contact the main charity as well as the branch, it might have some sway on the local branch exploiting people. Copy in the HQ of the charity if you write to the local branch.

          The franchise system for charities sucks. Total lack of responsibility from the main charity, whilst profiting from massive fees from tiny branches.

    • Landless Peasant

      Any advice? yes, get stoned before and during the working day. Be as incompetent, incoherent, and clumsy as possible. Make a complete balls-up of any task you are required to do. Purposely tread in dog shit before entering the shop. Hand out Political leaflets to customers.

    • So Age UK are in on this scam too? I never knew that

      • Yes they’re part of it and are in on it. This flannel about local branches not being affiliated is a bunch of BS. Why are they using the Age UK name then? Nah! it’s a bunch of crap to try and deflect attention away while they continue to exploit people and benefit from free labor.

    • get deep pockets🙂

  44. overburdenddonkey

    off topic
    CAS reports five times the number needing foodbanks 2013/14, compared to the previous year. http://www.cas.org.uk/system/files/Voices%20from%20the%20Frontline%20-%20food%20parcels.pdf

  45. Rosemarie Harris

    So basically if you are a thieving lying greedy company you get to shit on the unemployed by again taking money from the taxpayer and delivering … Nothing for them! At this rate we will be all free for the company as Security guards ..now that would be interesting!
    I will be wearing my sticker …..Keep Voluntering … Voluntary! I will look forward to the all the dirty companies who think this is O.K ..
    Bring it on ,Many charity shops, and companies who used free labour the first time round are suffering lack of goods being donated and profits down for some companies this will be intertesting i will always enjoy what i have to do!
    Another thought perhaps we should all get a voluntary job now for some charity that have never taken so called voluntary volunteers,and as .long as it gives you skills suitable for a paid job , then think of the fun you could have when the time comes to pimp you off to somewhere else.

  46. 0xfam do not do workfare, I volunteer there, and asked area manager (shops division) if I could do MWA at 0xfam shop if sent on it, she said no, we do not take part in workfare! found it a bad thing as I would not have been able to carry on volunteering

    • Marky

      Why don’t you start standing up to JCP instead of moaning about a voluntary job you have lost because they do not take workfare.
      When they put me on workfare I wouldn’t go so I was sanctioned over and over again, but I would rather starve than submit to their crap.
      Get out and fight instead of doing workfare or voluntary work for charities instead of statutory rights.

    • marky – you are COMPLAINING about NOT being put on MWA at Oxfam?? You are DISAPPOINTED that they do NOT support it?? If they did support it and you were able to do it, would you be happy that others “working” alongside you who really did not want to do it were being forced into doing it under threat of sanction?

    • I wanna do my MWA at the playboy mansion or the Angels club in London.
      :-Q

    • Yeah marky get a grip will you! We’re trying to get workfare and the exploitation stopped and you’re pissed off cos you can’t do it with Oxfam!!!

      You some sort of masochist or something?

      • Charities are undermining the whole of the welfare state, they are paying for support for every illness imaginable and then there are the food banks instead of benefits. The charities that were for army personnel found that although there was plenty of money in the coffers, those that should have been recipients were not getting it.
        Nobody knows for sure how much money is being poured into combine charities, but I bet it is more than what is being paid in from general taxation, so charities are practically running the country, perhaps we should vote for frontline voluntary workers to run the country, not their ceo’s or politicians, who are disguising the amount generated by each charity with creative accounting.

        • Guy, there used to be a website Fake Charities, which had lists and reasons why the charities listed were fake. Nearly all of them were involved in lobbying governments and received money from the government too.

          The RSPCA had a huge hand in developing the Animal Welfare Act 2006, then managed to place themselves in the position of sole enforcers of the act. They also manipulate the police to dance to their tune. They sit on about £114m in the bank (minimum at any one time) and own epic amounts of land (left to them in wills) Try reporting animal neglect or cruelty and see what response you get. Unless there’s a chance that TV crews and the press might turn up, they aren’t interested.

          The RSPCA are just one of many fake and 100% unethical charities and they kill more animals per year than any other animal welfare charity in the UK.

        • Yes agreed GF. My eyes have been opened wide to ‘charities?’ and what they do. Salvation Army is one who exploit the hell out of this Workfare fiasco. When you go on their twitter site they end each day’s posting with a sanctimonious message of love peace and goodwill to all people!
          All people except those being compelled to work for them for sod all, under threat of complete destitution, seems to be the message.

          Once again we have a ‘charity?’ who are so christian and in tune with god’s teachings that they like to exploit those less fortunate in order to make money.

          Salvation Army, YMCA, Age Uk, Gingerbread. Just to name 4 that i’ve read about exploiting the hell out of workfare for their own ends. There are tons more on the Boycott Workfare site that are doing it too.

          I’ve instructed relatives and friends to donate nothing to the SA either through those things that come through the door or anyone gathering money for them on the street. They are not a charity as long as they are involved in Workfare.

          It’s through the collusion of these ‘charities?’ that people are losing their benefits if they don’t comply with the order for slave labor. They can then end up out on the street with nothing. Do the SA care? eh! no!

    • Does, anyone know how long this daily signing is for ??
      is it for a month ?? 6 months ??
      (confusing trying to explain it)
      somebody please reply

      • Here, is a link for those who are getting harrased by their advisor about giving them access to ujm
        (it’s not mandatory)

      • @ bamboozled The following is a quote from DWPs own website re the Help to Work rubbish. It mentions the different options, but instead of saying they are all for six months it says “for UP TO to 6 months” (I’m presuming that applies to each of the options, not just the “community work placement”. However, the DWP are famous for their lies and they spout quite a few obvious lies in the remainder of the description of their Help to Work rubbish – Camoron it states, is actually aiming for full employment – well, maths never was his strong suit.
        As long as they have us signing for ten times per fortnight instead of once per fortnight, that gives them ten times as more chances to sanction us for being late. I have managed to cut out chocolate completely once more, but even then, if they “choose” this option for me, it will be a struggle to get up in the morning every single day of the week, for who knows how long.

        “New intensive measures to help the long-term unemployed into work will begin from today (28 April 2014) as the government continues its push toward full employment.

        The new scheme – Help to Work – will give Jobcentre staff a new range of options to support the hardest to help get off benefits and into work.

        Jobcentre advisers will tailor back-to-work plans for individuals according to the particular barriers to work they may have. The new measures include intensive coaching, a requirement to meet with the Jobcentre Plus adviser every day, or taking part in a community work placement for up to 6 months so claimants build the skills needed to secure a full-time job.”

        • It’s gonna make fourteen times more work for JCP staff many of whom are already at breaking point…

        • I think it’s strange how when Boy George announced the Help to Work he said it would last until everyone got a job, but now the activities on it are not even described as six months, but as “up to six months”. Maybe the six months was the tories being wildly optimistic, and perhaps their aim of 100% employment will be replaced with “up to 100% employment”. OK, that’s the maximum out of the way, I wonder what the minimum time on it is? A week?/Two weeks? Or am I also being wildly optimistic?

      • Landless Peasant

        I haven’t been told anything yet so no idea how long we’re intended to endure that sort of treatment, but also does anyone know if by getting sanctioned you return to normal fortnightly attendance, or would they still have you going daily even then? Because I’m seriously considering that as an option if it comes to it.

        • Sorry, Landless I have’nt got a clue. If they sanction you if your back on fortnightly signing or if you remain on daily signing. As, your on the subject of sanctions. Do you, or anyone on this blog know if. you get sanctioned do you lose your entitlement to jsa ??
          would appreciate a reply
          cheers

          • Landless Peasant

            If you meet certain criteria you’ll be awarded Hardship, which is also referred to as Reduced Rate JSA (about £40 per week)

            • I, doubt I would qualify for hardship. Especially as I have over 6k in savings, and I’m still trying to get it under 6k. But, it is taking forever.

      • Haven’t seen any details about the length of time yet

  47. there was a pilot scheme in hull in the late 90s, Work for nothing for three months three days a week,, cleaning out ponds that type of shit,, the firm went nearly bust in the end,, 200 hundred pairs of work boots overalls ect ,, we had to demand them,, it was fuking chaos fights every day the gangmasters cars geting keyd ,,, happy days

  48. guy fawkes, okay now anyway, signed off in Nov, working now, but thought it was weird, area manager not allowing me to fight against workfare, or do it where i do voluntary work

    • charities are undermining the creation of real business activity and the welfare state.

      The young non-working class have been fed nothing but training schemes and charities for the past 30 years, with no replacement for their decimated industries except cleaning jobs or care assistants for private care homes.

      The state has abnegated it’s responsibilities of caring for people,in favour of unaccountable, profit making private companies. I don’t call that charitable?

  49. Another angry voice seems to accept that it’s ok for the unemployed to do voluntary work when not in work. We want rid of charities, we are not sad,bad, vulnerable cases only capable of unpaid voluntary work, we want decent well paid jobs or decent benefits without conditionality or references to being a volunteer (even without the threat of sanction).

    • I, might give my advisor some info on what workfare is when I sign on this week. (They will probably be unfazed by it) but, It’s worth a shot. I found it on the keep volunteering voluntary website. (If anyone is interested)
      I, will also be giving my advisor some clear cut evidence, which is about ujm access. (they will probably sanction me for making things awkward)
      but, the tables are turining. I, urge more people to do the same.

      • Another Fine mess

        I not too sure it’s a good idea to give info to an adviser unnecessarily, best to keep them in the dark if you can. Usually just asking for things in writing works. They might say ‘You must give us access to ujm’ but they certainly won’t put it in writing.
        I eventually signed up, it was almost worth it to see them say ‘But you haven’t given us access’ and ‘I just said ‘Yes, that’s right!’. I eventually gave them access but only use it as a notepad, and for amusement at the fake jobs.

        • Landless Peasant

          I’ve stuck my ground and still deny them access.

          • Actively Seeking Employment
            82. We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this.

            * ask the numbnuts at your jobcentre to provide you with the full UJM toolkit – I bet they won’t…

        • My so-called JCP (advisor) tried it on with me twice for access to my UJM. The second time she wanted access, I flapped a copy of their OWN guidelines in her face and she soon backed down and went quiet. Seems that she then felt her job could have been called into question if she had ignored my reply and refused access to my private UJM account.

    • The losers should be G4S who are FRAUDSTERS.

  50. Pingback: G4S fraud corporation gets British taxpayers’ money again | Dear Kitty. Some blog

  51. Another Fine mess

    Old but worth a read.

    When is volunteering not volunteering?

    When it’s compulsory activity mandated by Job Centre Plus.

    Volunteer Centre Liverpool will NOT be having anything to do with this scheme
    http://www.volunteercentreliverpool.org.uk/news/community-work-placements.aspx

  52. “Psychiatric services are being outsourced at an accelerating rate. Capita, Virgin Care, Accenture, Reed, G4S and Serco are lining up for lucrative contracts despite a minimal track record in this difficult area. The growing presence of big private sector providers is diverting scarce NHS resources away from frontline support and into corporate profits”

    From: http://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/peter-beresford/only-parity-for-mental-health-is-that-it-is-being-cut-and-privatised-as-well

    …and when all those companies merge, they will be known as “Central Services” or “The Ministry of Love”

    I don’t believe that there’s one branch of the state that hasn’t been infiltrated by these unethical behemoths.

    • Landless Peasant

      The Capitalist Vultures are encircling us. And still Miliband says nothing.

      • He won’t say anything Landless he’s a complete diddy, as are 99% of the Labour party. They’re all involved in politics these days for the wrong reasons. Off hand i can think of two good Labour MP’s Dennis Skinner and Micheal Meacher. I’m sure there are a few other traditional socialist labour MP’s but they are vastly ournumbered by these neo-Liberal careerist’s masquerading as labour MP’s.

        One was on twitter last night mouthing off about the new job deal Labour say they’ll introduce. Crowing about how wonderful it all is. That’s how far they’ve sunk claiming that. Stephen Timmins i think his name is. Anyway he along with most all Labour MP’s won’t answer the question why they colluded with IDS to speed retroactive workfare legislation through parliament, virtually overnight.

        They are a fake fraud party so far away from the party Labour used to be.

        That’s a few Labour MP’s i’ve put on the spot with that question and they hate it because they know the answer is a devastating indictment of the present day Labour party.who have sold out the working class.

        • Landless Peasant

          Yep. Labour sold out years ago. And it was them who introduced Benefit Sanctions. I won’t vote for them.

    • Well, well, well fancy that Lucy, so much for ridding us of the morons using the police to arrest and incarcerate those they deem mentally ill.

      First it was the state abusing power now we have the private sector abusing power.

      All institutions for this purpose, should be housing all of those hoping to win contracts for mental health services AS PATIENTS not staff.

      • Trouble is Guy that if the members of those greedy, corrupt organisations were housed within the MH system, whether or not it was run by the same organisations, they wouldn’t get real therapy. There’d be no cure, but at least they’d be stymied in profiting from abuse of the vulnerable.

        • What good is being stymied, we want revenge, to see the same punishment dished out to them as they have dished out to others, who were not so much vulnerable as trusting, time to take away their possessions and then jail them.

          The Harvey Milks in our town have a lot to answer for.
          .

          • Speak for yourself about revenge guy. I’ve never seen it do any good. I just want a stop put to the abuse and exploitation.

            • Lucy

              Why are people imprisoned? because they are deemed to have done something to harm their fellow man. To want revenge is the same as saying we want justice, the same justice that has been meted out to us, not as vigilantes but in exactly the same way as it was forced on us.

              I’m sick of platitudes and injustice.

              • ps Lucy, you might consider yourself the voice of reason and me unreasonable, but I beg to differ. If the working class make mistakes they are made to pay for it, if the middle and upper class do in their professional positions they call us extremists for wanting justice, just as you have.

                Even now we have tv programmes showing cruelty by those in working class jobs but never in those in middle an upper class professions that have decimated lives.( that is if it is not trick camera work to make the public paranoid and suspicious, well it doesn’t fool me), but when something really is going on and we question it we are told we are being paranoid and suspicious.

                You do not know so much about psychiatry etc without wanting to study it and be part of it. I want rid of what is an oppressive, circumspect, cruel pseudo science.

                Television programmes they are feeding the public now are nothing but propaganda and cruelty.
                Now they are asking for VOLUNTARY guinea pigs to see why some people live longer than others. ACCORDING TO THE QUACKS THEY ALREADY KNOW THE PREACHING THEY ARE DOING TO EVERYONE AS IF THEY ALREADY HAVE THE ANSWERS.

                Another programme in the offing, putting people on a desert island to see how long they can survive.

                Once we start questioning the professionals to justify their vast salaries or want justice, we start getting fed crap like this.

                • I’m not stating that justice is not to be had or deserved, but justice in the form of retribution (or any other kind of punishment) does no good. Ever.

                  That’s my opinion and I am sticking to it. It is because I believe that humanism as probably a possible solution to the ultimate survival of human beings (and the other animals) It is not because I hate the poor and want to deny them justice or consider that I am the voice of reason.

                  Guy, I am not going to fight with you. You don’t know about me, what I study, what I want to be part of or anything about me. You have cobbled together something to be angry at because you fucking hurt.

                  We all hurt guy.

                  Isn’t there enough in reality that’s catastrophically fucked up to be angry about without imagining any more fictional terrors?

                  Be well.

                • overburdenddonkey

                  g fawkes
                  neither revenge nor punishment can bring true justice…yes, abusers must be stopped, but our system encourages capitalist abuse, as a means to salvation ie valuing one type of abuse over another does not bring justice…self control, behaviorist management, does not bring justice…our system is corrupted by cause of those
                  concepts..psychiatry can work, as already explained, but it does not at the moment, because it is throttled/choked/strangled/stifled based on, those wrath of god/politically based principles of law and order for those to poor to pay, as if, wealth is sign of lawfulness/virtue/morality…as if, our health/wellbeing can be judged and/or cured/distilled by the manipulations, distortions(lying), retrospectives of words on paper…we are nothing more than symptoms, diagnosis, descriptions and/or reports held up against their/the capitalist litmus paper …see link for truth…
                  http://www.soteria.freeuk.com/176_16-18.pdf

                • guy fawkes

                  lucy

                  Isn’t there enough in reality that’s catastrophically fucked up to be angry about without imagining any more fictional terrors?

                  What fictional terrors are they and who is imagining them? When governments or other agencies that hold power over people are corrupt as I have experienced, to want justice does not mean you are imagining terrors.

                  You have told us all that you have studied psychiatry to a certain level, therefore you see hurt where none exists. Justifiable anger yes, hurt no, hurt is for those who consider themselves perpetual victims, I do not intend to be one. As for well they can go to hell.

                  OBD

                  Psychiatry does not work, having been locked up unjustifiably, I found many people also in that position – they were locked up as I was because they dared to voice their objections to new deal, not because they were mentallly ill. The police were being used by the politicians to lock people away where they cannot demonstrate against them and they then use Judas type people to condemn you, who are then rewarded with 50 pieces of silver in the form of wages for their dirty deeds, metaphorically speaking.

                • guy, nowhere on the internet or anywhere else have I stated that I have studied psychiatry. I think you have read a lot into a few prior exchanges between me and another commenter, about several authors, who have written on the subject of trauma.

                  You imagined that I hate the poor and want to deny them justice.

                  If you don’t like what I write guy, the option is entirely yours to not read it. I don’t mind if you ignore it, don’t agree with it or choose, as you seem to have done, to make up things that I haven’t written and get angry about them. Feel free, fill your boots

                  I am not going to fight with you.

                • guy fawkes

                  I’m not stating that justice is not to be had or deserved,

                  but justice in the form of retribution (or any other kind of punishment) does no good. Ever.

                  The above two comments that you have made totally contradict one another.

                  One the one hand you are stating that justice is not to be had or deserved.

                  Then you go on to say that justice in the form of retribution or any other kind of punishment does no good. Ever.

                  Then you finish off with “You imagined that I hate the poor and want to deny them justice”.

                  If anyone is making things up it is you because I was not referring to the poor, I was referring to retribution for INJUSTICE.

                  You can’t make statements and then not expect people not to disipute or
                  question what you say, you have spoken about psychiatry as if you had some knowledge of such and is why I conceded on the subject, because I want nothing to do with psychiatry and those that espouse it.

                  I want retribution for not once but 3 times being locked up for opposing new deal when new labour were in power, I had lies told about me, was jumped on by 5 or 6 nurses and injected with drugs for opposing government dictats and was sanctioned and sectioned every time.

                  I want to see those responsible from the dwp, government agencies,the police and the NHS MH and their tribunal sevices brought to justice for what they did to me.

                  Like Geoff I have fought them all verbally, as the pen seems to be mightier than the sword when signing away someones life, from the ombudsmen and the complaint services, but they are all in it together.

                  Don’t call yourself a warrior for justice Lucy when you run away at the first sign of difficult discourse.

                • guy fawkes

                  You stated “on the one hand YOU ARE NOT STATING THAT JUSTICE IS NOT TO BE HAD OR DESERVED”

                  typing error.

                • guy fawkes

                  PS

                  I also want to add, at no time was I violent to anyone at the dwp, they were the ones that called the police on me to have me removed because I was winning the argument wlth them. The police locked me up in the cells all day.

                  I kept up my opposition using verbal tactics and refusing new deal and was then sectioned to a mental hospital and injected for refusing medication WHICH I DID NOT NEED because fighting for your rights is not mental illness. Did they do that to Caroline Lucas for her fracking protest?

                  They even had the cheek to quote the fact that I had had post natal depression 20 years previously, which bore no relevance to me 20 years later other than a tissue of lies that had been falsified in my medical report.

                • guy, it’s clear you have had a terrible time but It doesn’t give you licence to type a load of rage and pain at me. To ground you with some reality, I haven’t run off” at the first sign of discourse. I have replied to you a few times and I have been civil, despite your increasingly surreal interpretation of what I wrote, and your determination to have a fight.

                  I’ve seen you do this with so many commenters, A huge fucking tantrum, every time you are challenged or you (very commonly) misread contributions from others. Sorry guy, you have to sort that pain out yourself and attacking people who engage with you isn’t going to work, it’s going to make that pain and anger much worse.

                  Accuse me of everything you want, imagine all you like. You aren’t abusing me, you are abusing yourself.

                  It could be helpful for you to check out the meanings of “justice”, “punishment” and “retribution”

                  If you want to carry on fantasizing that I support psychiatry as it is in the real world, then you can do that too. It won’t change the truth, which you, having lost sight of, have chosen to fabricate.

                • royal scroungers

                  Excuse me Lucy, but I do not start the fights but I will finish them.

                  You are the one that is Off your head and sounds very much like a troll to me. You were the one that jumped down my throat at the mention of retribution, justice and punishment, (which I said should be the same as that which the perpetrators, government lackies, have and still are dishing out if your post is anything to go by).

                  I think you and OBD are on the wrong site if you think that people on here do not want redress for what has happened to them and it will be you who ends up arguing with those of my mindset, that want the head of politicians that began welfare reform, from Blair to Brown to the Condems and IDS, not to mention the administrators of it all who hide behind, security guards, police and anyone else who will protect them, even though they are the agitators.

                  I do not want your patronization of what has happened to me, nor do I need to read up on justice, punishment and retribution, I was studying for a degree in politics and economics myself when Blair came to power and changed grants into tuition fees, so probably know more about the subject than a jumped up little nobody like you.

                  I will see my day with people, I usually do. The truth comes out eventually, and I think you will stand out as some government lackey trying to disseminate and control what people should or should not think.

                  it is all there in black and white for all to see how you contradict yourself and cannot say anything but repeat your fabrication of who I am, what I and what I say.
                  Perhaps in your world you would let every Hitler, mussolini etc.,off with a slapped wrist.

                  You certainly sound like someone who is trying to exonerate those who have carried out untold misery and are not to be trusted on this site, but I am sure you will pop up again under another pseudonym.

                  You’re cue to exit stage to the right drama queen.

                • Guy fawkes

                  The pseudonym at the top of my last post was something my grandson typed in, in reply to Geoff, as i am typing on his account.

                  I have changed it back to my pseudonym of Guy Fawkes but for some reason it keeps jumping back to the joke one – I wonder why?

                • One day guy, you might get the help you so desperately need, then you might realise just how much you damage yourself with your anger.

                  Until then, feel free to carry on typing hysterical, delusional garbage about me, or anyone. It doesn’t bother me at all.

                  If on the off chance, hating makes you feel better, then that’s wonderful, carry on doing it. See where it gets you – nowhere.

                  “You’re cue to exit stage to the right drama queen.” ….whilst you are looking up the other three words that you are confused about, try looking up the word “irony” too 🙂

                • guy fawkes

                  What do politically correct, feminists know of irony?

                  You are the damaged goods not me. Justifiable anger is different from those that consider themselves damaged goods, which you appear to be.

                • guy fawkes

                  PS ” See where your anger gets you – nowhere”.

                  Good because I do not want to be anywhere other than where I am and am more than happy to be, despite the mindset of those that surround me.

                • guy fawkes

                  Thanks jv I never expected to get a fair hearing from a letters page entitled G4S, they are a load of shit, so thanks for that jv.

    • overburdenddonkey

      lucy
      don’t forget they won a contract to run rape crisis centers…
      http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/may/24/g4s-contract-sexual-assault-referral-centres

      • obd, I didn’t know that. Horrific. Yet another reason to deter someone from reporting rape, as if any more reasons are needed grrr!

        Atos have been creaming it up big style making a mint out of the Positive Step IAPT contract. I think these other providers spotted that a while ago, sat back to see how profitable it would be, then pounced.

        Both Crapita and Atos have been making a complete hash of OH contracts in the NHS for years. They are roundly hated by the staff for being so useless.

        Every single one of these firms is also queuing up to deliver the pilots of the DWP scheme where a person on out of work benefits is compelled to engage with a “health care professional” or face sanctions. “Health”, “care” and “professional” as independent words with a conscience of their own and having endured years of misuse, have made a statement that they will not be participating in this scheme.

        Soon we will have one super-corporation coercing us from cradle to grave.

  53. Off-topic – Recent on-going battle with the numbnuts running the WPP in my town..

    Those lame cunts (earlier this month) only tried to sign-post me into various random zero-hour contracts, until I fired off a venomous e-mail to their head-office. Once they got the message in that the law now states a zero-hour contract cannot be made mandatory, they went quiet on me and fobbed me off with some bullshit designed to keep me quiet and not fire off at them again.

    I know too much about the JSA act and the new DWP rulings now and will use this as a weapon against those WPP wankers again if they try to cheat me with underhand tactics.

  54. Liberal Democrats posted me a letter today, only wanting me to vote for a local candidate trying to get on the gravy train with the Lib Dems. Tore the fucking letter up as I don’t vote for anybody who I don’t personally know nor do I want to help them claim expenses all the while I CANNOT even get any fucking part-time job just to get away from the JCP fuckwits.

  55. If anybody actually gets put on CWP ask to see their Liability Insurance, Employers Liability or Public Liability will not cover you/us. As this is Compulsory the Providers/Charities/Sub Contractors will have to get an addendum and £uck me running,it is not cheap! Due to the forced nature of this programme,getting coverage can only be offered by a few Insurance Companies and I would bet that they do not want to pay…Hit them where it hurts…Profits!

    • Another Fine mess

      🙂😉😀😄>:D😦😥😐:/😮😛😡o_O😎^^’❤😕🐱👿😈:mrgreen:😳🙄💡❗❓🐻⭐➡

      • I, keep reading reports online about this daily signing. That if the Jobcentre mandate jobseekers to attend, there in the Jobcentre from 9am – 5pm is that true ??

        • Another Fine mess

          No. Having everyone in the JC all day was just another one of daft IBS’s daft ideas.
          Do you have a random question generator.❓

        • @ bamboozled – they could never make that work – They do not have the resources, the staff, the internet equipment, the facilities or even the space in the jobcentre. Even if they take on a few extra staff for this pointless activity, it will just be a case of queuing up to sign, signing and then leaving. They might ask you which job you applied for or didn’t apply for that day, but even that is doubtful. But if they do put you on that don’t forget to actually sign. Once, when they had me on weekly signing, they forgot to get me to sign and I had to say to them, “You haven’t signed me.”

        • Landless Peasant

          They would have to provide facilities such as drinking water and access to toilets, not to mention extra security guards. It’s unworkable bullshit.

          • what if they cannot have toilets provided for JCP claimants? My answer to them is to piss up the wall whilst waiting to sign on if I need a toilet break. I’m not going to ruin my jeans by leaking into them if I am in dire need of a number three…

        • My JCP is over-capacity and over-stretched in dealing with the benefit caseloads. I’m never always on time with my appointment times, If one of the desk goons is off, I’ll end up having to wait nearly an hour later than my signing times before being seen.

  56. I’m guessing that the daily signing might be put into practice as a propaganda excercise that will quickly fail due to weight of numbers. Staff, already pretty much overstretched as it is will become ever more so, and also there are health and safety issues to be considered – what would the local fire brigade’s response be to Jobcentres filled to dangerous overcapacity be? Alternately, people due to sign on could be required to wait outside the premises, which wouldn’t go down well either.

    • My JCP is already overcapacity as it has to take two town’s worth of jobseekers instead of just one town. A few years ago, in all their wisdom, the DWP closed down the JCP office in the town of March, Cambs, and transferred all those clients to my JCP. The number of staff at my JCP has never been increased to take on the extra benefit cases and claims transferred over from that closed office to the one I have to go to.

      Every time I go there and see the masses of people attending it is dangerously close to breaching Health & Safety Laws and the Fire Safety codes. I should really speak to the local Fire Chief for his opinions on whether or not my JCP is risking people’s lives. If a fire were to break out, the fire exits would be no use as they are too narrow and have trip hazards outside..

  57. Another Fine Mess

    More evidence that sanctions don’t work, and of targets, as if we needed it.

    Targets for sanctions
    In the survey, 23% said they had been given an explicit target for making sanction referrals and 81% said there was an ‘expectation’ level.
    http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/news_and_events/pcs_comment/index.cfm/sanctions-ineffective-jobcentre-staff-say

    • As usual, the DWP are making it up as they blunder along from one failed idea to another. Sanction usage is just a weapon used by them to feather their own careers. Never mind what hoops we go through just to receive a pittance each fortnight. As long as the nazis get away with it and bend the rules constantly, things will never improve. The entire system is broken. Help-for-work is simply replacing the work programme. Just another brick for them to bash our heads in for simply being left on the employability shelf.

      I’m due to attend an ’employability course’ spread over four days, through the next two weeks at my WPP. I’ve already previously been through a similar course arranged by Learn Direct a couple of years ago so I know exactly what to expect and what will be said to me from this latest WPP fad. Just another excuse for the WPP to claim £500 extra a week out of me for attending their course.

  58. Universal job-mismatch is struggling to load its pages yet again. Surely its removal from the internet is long overdue now. How are we expecting to use that online contrivance when it can’t even display pages or crashes completely each time when I enter in a simple search queiry?

    • I, agree ujm sucks. (It’s clear to see how it won worst website award) btw, does anyone keep getting a popup on ujm about cookies at the top of the screen wen you login ??

      • No matter what computer I am using (my own heavily anti-virus protected PC, a WPP computer, or a I.A.D. at the JCP) and no matter what web browser I happen to be on (IE 11 is avoided at present until Microsoft patch it) Universal Mis-match always pops up the cookie policy each time I go to that contrivanced website.

        • Fen, are you able to delete your cookies after you have jobsearched ??

          • @ Bamboozled

            Yes. If I was to use UJM on my own PC at home, I can delete all the cookie rubbish by various ways and means…

            * My computer’s own desk cleaner
            * CCleaner (freeware version) – I use the enhanced version
            * Puran Utilities (freeware version)

            And if I am on UJM through Google Chrome I use their chrome add-ons such as –

            * Click&clean
            *Disconnect
            *Ghostery
            *Keep my opt-outs
            *Privacy manager
            *Scriptblock
            *Adblock Plus
            *Traffic light

            My user-tweaked (to make it ultra fast) Firefox has all these extensions plus many others to stop unwanted internet junk.

  59. Pingback: Welfare Reform Has Failed: Number Of Long Term Claimants Soars Under Tories | the void

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  61. The pseudonym at the top of my post was something my grandson typed in, in reply to Geoff, as i am typing on his account.

  62. Pingback: Gabriel Vents

  63. Pingback: What a fucking shambles, the rise and demise of Community Work Placements | the void

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