More Poverty, More Homelessness, More Deaths: Labour Set Out A Vision For Workfare Britain

war-on-the-poorThe war on the poor is set to continue if Labour win the general election Rachel Reeves confirmed in her speech on social security policy today.

Pinning the blame for unemployment directly onto unemployed people, Reeves has set out a number of measures to fix those unemployed people with forced work and benefit sanctions.

At the heart of Labour’s policy is the so-called Jobs Guarantee which will see everyone who has been unemployed over two years – or a year for those under 25 – condemned to forced work for paltry sums of money.  In a genuinely nasty move, this work will be pegged at minimum wage and set at a maximum of 25 hours a week, meaning participants will not be eligible for tax credits.

For the vast majority of claimants, who pay rent for where they live, the bulk of any extra money will go straight to landlords due to housing benefit payments being cut as income rises.  For most claimants the Compulsory Jobs Guarantee will merely mean they have enough money to travel to their forced work placement and on a good day afford a cheap lunch.

This workfare plus a sandwich scheme will be backed with tough benefit sanctions, already one of the main drivers of poverty in the UK.  A report published last year by Citizens Advice warned that sanctions had led to people becoming homeless, attempting suicide and being forced to go through bins to find food.  Labour’s workfare programme would only makes these problems worse as over-zealous Jobcentre staff and welfare-to-work crooks seek out ever more ludicrous ways to leave people destitute.  If Labour are elected then we might yet see what happens when the foodbanks run out of food.

As well as 25 hours a week forced work, claimants will have to complete 10 hours a week ‘training’, leaving little time to actually look for a job.  With training increasingly a euphemism for workfare, it remains to be seen what shoddy provision this will entail.  One thing is for sure – it will be done on the cheap and is unlikely to lead to real skills or qualifications.

Around one million people could be forced onto this scheme and it is likely that most will be employed by the public sector or in charities as they were under Labour’s Future Jobs Fund.  That means one million new workers entering the workforce, with wages pegged at minimum wage and no  employment rights.  If people on Labour’s workfare are sacked they don’t just lose their job – which on these terms might be a blessed relief – they lose everything, even entitlement to the pittance of benefits.

Astonishingly Reeves also called for higher wages in her speech today, although there was little indication of how that might be achieved.  Yet it’s hard to imagine a better strategy to force down wages and undermine working conditions for everybody than an army of poverty paid workers who face destitution if they leave, get the sack, or take industrial action.  If the unions tolerate this, then they will only have themselves to blame as their relevance in the public sector vanishes into thin air.

Anyone who thinks that cash strapped local councils will not use claimants facing the Compulsory Jobs Guarantee as a cheap source of tax-payer funded free labour is a fucking idiot.  Ignore what Rachel Reeves says about shrinking wages – her policies are a blueprint for high unemployment and low pay.

What she doesn’t say is equally as important as what she does.  There is no mention of scrapping the despised Work Capability Assessment – and Ed Miliband has already said that these assessments will stay.  There was also no mention of halting massive cuts to Disability Living Allowance, which will see a fifth of disabled people losing vital benefits.  Ominously Reeves talks of ‘better targeted support’ for single parents and disabled people to enter the workplace to combat what she repeatedly calls ‘worklessness’.  Anyone who thinks we can trust the Labour Party to end the demonisation and harassment of sick or disabled claimants – which they started whilst in Government –  is also a fucking idiot.

As Iain Duncan Smith’s welfare reforms bring back poverty not seen in generations, the answer from the Labour Party is more of the same.  Despite a spate of reports of suicides linked to welfare reforms over Christmas, they are every bit as committed to driving the poor into the ground as the Tories they are so desperate to copy.

It is hardly surprising that an Oxbridge clown like Reeves, with her background in the banking sector, is so clueless about what people with nothing really need, which by the way is more money.  She’s probably never done a real day’s work in her life, let alone had to survive on benefits.  But that won’t stop her condemning people to lives of utter misery by blaming them for the poverty caused by capitalism.  There will be more tragic deaths linked to the erosion of the welfare state if Labour are elected next year.  And if Rachel Reeves still has her job, then she will have just as much blood on her hands as Iain Duncan Smith.

Follow me on twitter @johnnyvoid or facebook

492 responses to “More Poverty, More Homelessness, More Deaths: Labour Set Out A Vision For Workfare Britain

  1. So who do we vote for now. fuck it iv had enough of politics and this country im not bothering with any of it

  2. I am not a “fucking idiot”, I just live in Edinburgh 🙂

    “This council;

    “Notes the Workfare scheme introduced by the Westminster Government that forces people on welfare to work without payment under threat of loss of benefits;

    “Believes that this undermines paid employment, genuine volunteering and the social welfare system, and does not benefit individuals or communities, but perpetuates poverty;

    “Resolves not to take part in any Workfare or other forced labour scheme.”

  3. Reblogged this on UNEMPLOYED IN TYNE & WEAR and commented:
    I’ve just seen a vision of the future, and it works… for low pay, no rights, no security. Labour – the tory-lite alternative.

  4. If labour do get in next time they won’t have enough money for real training and 25 hours a week at the minimum wage will be like receiving jsa and a little bus fare. That could all be arranged by the jobcentre but they won’t end the contracts for a4e or the other providers. Politicians from all parties refuse to accept that most jobs on UJM are fake. All they have to do is try the website for a few days and they would soon realise the reality. It’s hard to see how the unemployed can get any kind of fairness whoever wins the next election. When many of us are pushed into some kind of community work from april it might become the norm way before the next election.

  5. This is effing depressing. Your analysis looks accurate from what I’ve gathered. I read a nice piece in the Observer about labour sending someone out to around the country get the views of the working woman.
    They need to hear about how the poor are living, especially those who’ve spent time at the sharp end of welfare changes. Oh hang on they don’t,cos you can see it on programs like Benefits Street. So that’s okay then.

    • Yeah…no one gives a shit about poor folks thats why we get stupid cunts who show up on guardian CIF and say they enjoyed the whole voyeurism of watching Benefit Street…like it was entertainment ..

  6. Vote for ‘The Whole System Stinks and Needs Reforming Party!’

    • You could vote for the God punishes the gay UKIP fruit loops

      • Thank you for trying to help us against UKIP but you’ve confused them with the WBC

        • Nope. A UKIP MP has blamed the rain and floods on gay rights, and has written to Reichskanzler Cameron to warn him that armageddon is imminent unless he brings back all the anti-gay legislation.

          • someoneintheknow

            Nope! UKIP don’t’t have any MP’s. It was a town councillor who said that. Facts dear boy, FACTS!!

            • something survived...

              still PUKIP though, and they’re still responsible for him.
              Funnily enough most of the flooding victims, statistically, will have been straight. Some will have been leading homophobes. God sounds really logical and just, right?!

  7. Labour are fucking filth; and Rachel Reeves is scum

  8. I wonder if the sale of baseball bats went upin the past few weeks when ” that tv program ” was broadcast ..

    • something survived...

      A job creation scheme we could support: peoples’ construction of a giant very long gallows, if there is enough rope in the country to hang all the fascists, nazis, tories, and anti-welfare scum.

  9. All in it together.

    Increasing The minimum wage specified by law from £6.31 to £7.00 per hour (£236.00 Per week to £262.00) as the magnificent politicians are munificently shouting about (with a Cheesy grin) “Cameron”.
    The rise will be more than swallowed by the employee suffering a huge (For the Employee) reduction in Housing benefit currently received… Housing Benefit entitlement will reduce by £40 because of the increase in wage… making the Rise a reduction in means/disposable income. any gross income earned over £241.00 incurs a reduction of £40 in housing benefit.

    This “Policy” of robbing the poor to pay the rich is what Government DWP and it’s various for profit friends and private agencies like the nudge Unit have worked hard on over the last few years. they do nothing unless it profits them and suits their ideology enriching them… and furthering their agenda for total control. under the guise of benefactors/opposition Choice… All political party’s are complicit in this ideological war on working men woman and family unity and life in this country… war will be on our streets in earnest soon enough.;

  10. im voting green i think.

    • @nuggy i prefer puce or taupe..

      • I’m with Chewie.

        • @guy Fawkes you are quite eclectic in your choice of hues sir…

          • something survived...

            I thought UKIP were purple? surely you can’t be voting for those inbreds lol! Or bring back purple, green and white, the suffragette colours.
            Or ‘when I am an old woman I shall wear purple..’ (Jenny Joseph) Or purple/lilac to support lesbian rights. Or a pink ribbon for breast cancer.
            I think the Monster Raving Loony Party used purple once?

            As for UKIP they will have to vote for themselves, they can’t be anti-disabled as they are all chinless, gutless, brainless, mindless, spineless, bloodless, and heartless.

            UKIP used to have a braincell but it got left on the table in the European Parliament cafe, while pondering such questions as ‘Why are we here?’, and trying to understand the menu (though it was in English).

            Exam question: A penguin, several generations removed from Antarctica, which has never seen snow in its life, lives in London at the zoo. It has never bothered to learn English or pay taxes. It is black and white. Should it be deported?

            There is a physics prize which is still unclaimed. There’s a complicated problem to solve, and if someone does it they will win the prize. If our top physicists could be diverted from their work for a while, might I suggest a far more impossible and intriguing problem for them to apply their collective intellects to.
            A prize to be awarded to the first person, persons or institution able to come up with an explanation for IDS, and the reasons behind IDS.
            (Tip: Experience in the field of black holes would be advantageous, as some hypotheses have considered that IDS may be a black hole.)

            • Yes, but you have to hand the nutbag gong to ‘Nigel’, ;
              He believes truthfully that he is a hard working man.
              Give him a shovel I say, and watch the mirth unfold.

  11. Reblogged this on Peter Batt and commented:
    The end of politics: Labour’s plan to continue persecuting the poor if the party wins the 2015 election is a betrayal of its history and core support. It also shows how hopelessly indebted the Labour Party is to the current neoliberal agenda, and that real opposition will have to be led from outside the political establishment.


    Tory MP says poor people use food banks because they waste money on getting tattoos…yeah and ” shameless ” is a documentary ..bollocks you twat..

  13. this will continue while labour faces no serious challenge from the left.

      • Crazy, sadistic and stupid
        – For starters the everything that makes a person, not only exist physically but, also mentally, is the what is needed to survive.

        The initial need of any person is Air, Food and Water – without any of these a person cannot exist therefore it is all three, crazy stupid and sadistic, to deny them or state you must work for any basic human need to survive – All three, air / food and water are provided on Earth freely and were since the dawn of time. It is greedy man who has taxed two of these and I am sure it wont be long before air is loopholed into being paid for.

        History exposes that the once great nations on this planet were raped, pillaged and desoluted by western, religion, politics and monarchy and today it is no different – only it is all turning on its own subjects..

        History itself proves Africa / Native America / Incans / India / Greece / Australia etc, were all far richer in soil and precious materials before the west took over, killed and desecrated and taking with them all precious materials leaving the natives poor and without anything to call their own, Just look at the many cultures the west has abused and destroyed via Religion, politics and Monarchy.

        Today, Religion, politics and The Monarchy are the richest of them all and just are not going to be satisfied till only they are left.

        If and When In the event of The NWO they will turn on eachother of course. For now though, they stand firmly together to abuse and attempt destruction of the anyone who does not fit.

        Sorry went a little off topic but, just sayin 🙂

        • @elohimette it smacks of ” send them up chimneys ” to me..fkin twat UK there were laws to end child labour due to kids getting killed…they wanna reverse all that ..of course you can see it nearly happening with Goves private schools plan for posh kids and some of these schools being done for fraud .. They don’t want poor kids to have education …classic tory comment ” why should I pay to send others children to go to school “. Says it all..

        • You’re no A J P Taylor

          • something survived...

            And of course most of the poor kids these Tea Party rednecks want to force into manual labour, will be black. Remember the other year how the Tea Party rewrote history to leave out the reasons for America existing, the reason there are black people in America, the Triangular Trade, and the reasons for the start of the American Civil War? And they referred to the presence of any occasional, random and rare black people you might happen to meet (all of whom are more than happy to doff their cap, and be addressed as Boy); only to say that these people are recent immigrants who chose to come over to America. They are just anomalous results, and can be disregarded; of course all the VERY FEW black people who came to America in the 1700s and 1800s, CHOSE to come! And there is no such thing as a Native American (in which case, what were the original Boston Tea Party rioters dressed as or imitating?).

            Majority of USA’s prisoners (in the country that imprisons the highest proportion of its citizens in the world) are black. They are the least likely to get or afford a lawyer, and the most likely to be convicted. Most stop and search is on black people, and most search victims are completely innocent. Most police shootings are of black people. Most unemployed and poor people in USA are black; the worst schools are for the ghettoised black areas. They (black schools) get the least federal funding, and are the most dilapidated school buildings, they have the least resources. They (black people) get the worst, or no, healthcare; the worst housing; the worst food and jobs. Top universities prefer to take white students, rather than black students of greater ability. Malnutrition and related diseases are highest among black children. If you’re sick/disabled, you get the least help and support if you’re black. The only big growth industry, is that the impoverished black ghetto schools, receive the most aggressive and frequent incursions by military recruiters.

            The Tea Party are apologists for imperialism, slavery, apartheid, and genocide.

      • Forget imagining the chav, Imagine the politician feeling sad, lost, confused………….. Nope I cant because they have never felt such emotions



      • I really hope she loses her job and has to sign on endlessly for years without hope of getting another job ever…………

        • @elohimette nah I bet she gets promoted with special recommendation by Iain Drunken Spliff as he is just as psychotic as she is…
          Bloody hell just look at that face of hers…with hatred and contempt etched into it..

          Nasty c……..
          It pisses me off because as some of us know people have already hung themselves or taken their own lives..
          As I mentioned before I eveb knew someone who actually hung them selves over accusations of Benefit fraud..
          And DWP employs shitc…ts. Like this ?

          • Sickening and I feel for you truly. It is basically a legalized masacre under guise of `fixing the country` – The Government are extremely clever (as much as I hate to admit I believe them so)

            The JCP/DWP staff have quite literally sold their souls and are seemingly happy to have done so.

            • @elohimette yeah its bloody hard for me knowing a suicide victim ..she was a real sweetheart lovely soul but just mentally unwell ..despite her condition she volunteered for MIND to help others ..
              But someone kept telling her she was a fraudster and would go to prison so she flipped out and hung herself in hospital

              See how this is now ? Not only demonizing unemployed but also demonizing disabled too…when did that ever happen before ?
              I used to remember the old labour exchanges that did actually try and help youf find a job not the sanctions office we now have ..why don’t they call them sanction centre ? I can go back further when places were called National Assistance they only assist you to kill yourself

            • @bobchewie – The propaganda in Britain today is as if we were in 1930`s Germany. The likes of The Daily (hate) Mail and all right wing trash press are no different from Der Angriff (The Attack) written by Goebbels.

              He used psychological swaying of carefully wording statements over and over as a means to have even the most liberal German believe what he was saying was true.
              The British press has done exactly the same regarding benefit claimants and the disabled – Those people who blame the vulnerable today merely believe the what they read because all the papers are saying it and saying it on continuum – The psychological swaying of the masses is not difficult if done with such force and in numbers – Like I say even the most liberal and intelligent of people begin to doubt the truth if lied to on a continuum and by so many.

              Its why people are beginning to believe people on benefit and the disabled are (as your link above proves) subhuman – Your friend suffered because of this propaganda and many more will do so until the press are exposed for being the fascist bastards that they are.

              • @elohimette yes everything these days feels like propaganda ..its like you have to decode news these days ..1 what is being said 2 who is saying it 3 what it the expected outcome of this message

                I seem to be doing this all the time now..
                My only concern about my friend who passed away is if something or rather someone closer to her caused her to take her life …it was said she was terrified of going to prison for benefit fraud …now then I have checked this and going to prison does not feature high on the list ..other methods such as fraud recovery ie getting back the money that was obtained fraudulently .
                True it was said she suffered from paranoia but someone who knew this might have exploited this . ..i would like to know how this fraud / prison thing got into her head .The whole thing has been bothering me since it happened ….
                And still does..

          • It should be pointed out to that Reeves bitch that she’s not in the tory party, oh, wait, there’s not a jot of difference between the 2 main parties…

            • @kittycat bollocks to all this.
              I am going to stick my head above the parapet and say this because it has to be said
              1 the economic climate is properly fucked. Jobs of any worth are scarce ..we have also failed the next gen
              2 there are people who are so fucking unwell they are not going to work again despite all their efforts ..
              3 now you can call me a lazy arsehole if you like . but just what is this fucking obsession with work work work work work …
              I saw a video years ago which had the guts to ask this question showed families where parents hardly knew each other because the breadwinner was working 24 / 7 away from the family ..then office workers pulling over in lane to stop and do work on laptop whilst on the road ..also families on holiday being phoned up to do company work ..another where a call centres awarded the best worker a bonus and got to wear a funny hat do the work place was made to feel like a fun place ..another where staff got to play scalextric to help bonding with fellow colleagues and promote competition amongst them using pseudo science ..utter twaddle …
              So kick me if you want but what’s gonna be the other side of this work fixation…

            • chewie it’s all work work work because the greedy middle class want it that way, the upper class do very little work, the greedy middle are striving to joint them.
              The middle class are the dictators that are making the shitty policies that on the one hand talk about communities when they are not in their community for that many hours to contribute to it in any specific way.
              Mothers used to stay at home to rear their young, now they are put into nurseries, after school clubs, boarding schools. it’s a joke. The middle class are a joke.

            • As soon as any one party gets to the top, the ideals (if ever had any??) are lost in the orgasm of power crazed lunacy – Or in Nick Cleggs case, shit bricks and do as they are told…..

          • bobchewie, I honestly believe that there is an agenda and when Cameron said `We are all in it together` it was an in joke for him, all major political parties, the media and the bankers.
            I hardly read the press anymore, if I do, I scour the headlines of The Guardian otherwise I read online forums like here.
            I went for so long reading between the lines and getting angry at the bullshit so I just gave up.
            I think reading the press and listening to the news is depressing, one sided and never full facts

      • A face like a rat catchers dog. She should be the 1 that hangs herself. FUGLY BOOT!!

        • @jester yeah she is no oil painting and i am not being sexist Johnny. A face twisted into hate and contempt for people ideally she is paid to HELP not condemn to death ..
          Bloody hell I thought advisors were meant to be supportive and encouraging ..not hate filled ..

          • Bob mate i used to think that myself, just got paid last friday 1st payment for 3 months couldnt face xmas couldnt afford xmas felt like doin my self ,but then i thought of ma wee niece . hope i can stop fealin like this but the gov are out to massacre us

            • @jester nearly been there myself but for other reasons but I thought why give them an easy ride ..we are supposed to give them hell…to make up for the shit they dump on us…there won’t be any chance if people just keep quiet and I am not gonna be a statistic just for them c…..TS..

          • something survived...

            if they are supportive or encouraging they get fired for being offmessage

        • The Boomtown Rats

          She went up the stairs,
          Stood up on the vanity chair,
          Tied her lame belt around the chandelier,
          And went out kicking at the perfumed air. 🙂

          — Diamond Smiles – The Boomtown Rats

          • The Boomtown Rats

            • It’s time Bob Geldof did a concert for the poor in this country.

            • He won’t do that. He’s too busy not paying his tax and counting all his lovely money. Him and Bono, they are the kings of poverty porn and both are far too busy counting their money and not paying tax to have the time or the will to be associated with the poor. Both are keener on nobbing with the top brass and the resultant publicity to give a shit about the poor in our country.

              I hate the pair of them.

            • Esther 'Diamond Smiles' McVile

              And have Phil Collins playing in a deprived area in the Eastend of London and a run-down ex-mining community on the same day!

            • Rachel 'Diamond Smiles' Reeves

              Funny how people change, Lucy 🙂 You wouldn’t think it was (Sir) Bob ffs on that video. Same goes for (Lord) Feargal Sharkey of the Undertones (Teenage Kicks) who now sits on the fucking Radio Authority of all places lol And then we have (Order of the Royal Garter lol) Paul Hewson… I mean Bono lol

    • @nuggy the only ” left ” are the poor bastards who are ” left ” out of the equasion ..look at the welfare to work ” conventions ” ie trade fairs because thats what they are listed as officially …with unemployed people as ” the trade ” they profit from..and the unemployed are not even invited to the gig…its like a cattle market with jobless being led to the slaughter fact literally with the death toll increasing week by week…its like we are being talked about behind our back and as if we didnt fucking exist or not intelligent enough to respond ..and twats like Oxbridge grads who suddenly become experts in poverty when they have never fucking been there. running Thunk tanks all funded by big business looking for more dosh on govt gravy train.

    • what? you mean Michael Meacher and erm, what’s his name???????

  14. I wish that the MEDIA would look into the lives of the real non working SCROUNGERS. The entire RACING FRATERNITY. I bet that many of them are claiming all the allowances available.

  15. I can’t help but wonder where all these government created jobs are going to come from. Ed Balls has claimed in the past that a majority of these positions will be in the private sector. Does this mean that the government will be paying the wages for participants working for companies like Tesco, in jobs that would otherwise never have existed, and possibly even paying a subsidy to private employers as a reward for making use of such labour? Or what? See, if these jobs benefited the community, e.g., insulated the homes of the elderly to help keep them warm in cld weather, and gave participants useful skills and qualifications I would see the sense in it, but giving the long-term unemployed over to private companies to be used for six months as free labour, with part-time wages for participants paid by the government, seems rather iffy to me.

    • Smoke & mirrors Nigel mate. All the parties in gov right now are truly out to destroy the benefit system. My poor auld granda died last year 96 yrs auld , He’ll be turnin in his grave, that man fought the fascists for our freedom and rights. Now this bunch o feckin nasties want to exterminate the poor. Time to strike back we are many they are few!!!




























      @GEOFF REYNOLDS. ” Benefit Claimants admit their benefits are too high as they discourage work ” from the Daily Hate..
      If proof were needed that we are being lied to or rather the comfortably off are being lied to then this proves it…when compared next to Geoff’s reference to DWP FOI request about benefit enough to live on

      Pathetic and another low for MSM…

    • The government have already determined the minimum for surviving: £145.50 for a single person – the Pension Guarantee Credit level.

      • @wildswimmerpete yes I an quite sure that those ” claimants ” who told the daily hate that their benefits were too much decided to pay them back…does the daily hate take us or rather the middle class for idiots ?
        I think we should be told ..

    • Don’t be silly, Geoff, don’t we all know that those on on benefits have beautiful houses, nice cars , expensive holidays, designer clothes & of course the required 50inch flatscreen telly if a woman interviewed on the news last week is to be believed. She read this in the Daily Heil so it must be true, after all the the media don’t lie, do they?

  17. The jobs guarantee would not be Workfare. Workfare takes people off the benefit books but forces them into full-time work for the same money they would get on JSA. The jobs guarantee provides actual employment, albeit on minimum wage.

    Minimum wage is £6.31/hour for over-21s, so that’s £157.75 per week – more than twice as much as people would be getting on JSA.

    Your comment about housing benefit is understood, but this is a job, not Workfare. Housing Benefit drops as income rises and having to deal with that is something most of us have had to do. It’s not something that Labour is foisting on everybody out of the blue.

    Even so, people on the jobs guarantee would end up with more money than they would get on benefits. Admittedly, that would have to be divided between their household bills, but it is still more money. So Labour would be adhering to the promises to make work pay more. And Labour wants to increase the minimum wage to the living wage, remember.

    The 10 hours/week training is not a new idea. People on apprenticeships certainly used to spend part of their week in college, back in the 60s or 70s, and this seems to be a return to that idea. There is little time left to look for a job because people on the job guarantee would not have to do this; they would already have a job.

    Of course the wage is low – it’s a starting job, and it’s most probable that employers will have to be persuaded to take part in the scheme with assurances that it won’t cost them much. You have to start somewhere, and this is a better place than the Tories would put people.

    I don’t know where you’re getting your information about sanctions. Can you point out where Rachel Reeves mentions them in her speech?

    Nor can I find any reference to what you’re suggesting about Labour’s Workfare programme, if such a thing will exist. There are plans to change the Work Programme, with all current contracts being dropped and a new system introduced, to be commissionered jointly by central and local government, in order to integrate with local businesses, charities and social enterprises.

    What makes you suggest most people will be employed by the public sector or in charities when, according to the speech, they are expectd to be employed by smaller private firms? The hope is that people who go there will end up with full-time jobs – with all associated work-related benefits: “Experience there is showing that once a company has invested six months in a new recruit the chances are they will want to keep them on after the subsidy has ended.”

    It seems you have come to this with preconceptions, and assumed the worst.

    • Sarah Sarahssen

      //The jobs guarantee would not be Workfare. Workfare takes people off the benefit books but forces them into full-time work for the same money they would get on JSA. The jobs guarantee provides actual employment, albeit on minimum wage.//

      If the person “employed” by the company can have their income in any way sanctioned through the DWP as opposed to normal disciplinary procedures in-house, then it could be argued that the proposed scheme is a type of Workfare.

      //Even so, people on the jobs guarantee would end up with more money than they would get on benefits. Admittedly, that would have to be divided between their household bills, but it is still more money. So Labour would be adhering to the promises to make work pay more. And Labour wants to increase the minimum wage to the living wage, remember.//

      If Labour use taxpayer money to subsidise the wages of the people on this scheme, or to provide initial or “reward” cash lump sums to the companies involved then making work pay for one group will inevitably place a disproprtionate tax burden on the income of other workers. If Labour do not use other peoples’ momey to incentivise private companies to take on the most unemployable people in society, how exactly are they going to lure them onto their scheme given the vast pool of recently unemployed people wuth more relevant experience who are equally desparate for work?

      • Sarah Sarahssen

        – sorry about the typos, wish wordpress’d let me edit

      • The DWP would only be able to sanction people if they came off the scheme prematurely – in other words, if there had been some form of misbehaviour leading to their dismissal. In that case it could be argued that these people had reneged on the agreement, and that would be why they would be refused benefits.

        The alternative is to have people who could work but would rather burden the state clogging up the system and living off the taxpayer, which is exactly the sort of thing the Tories love to say about the benefit system under Labour.

        As for Labour using taxpayers’ money, have you any idea how many billions the Conservatives have wasted on their schemes, and their private work programme provider companies, that do nothing for jobseekers while sucking down big bucks in funding?

        This is a temporary, stop-gap solution, with public money gained from taxing bankers and removing pension tax benefits from the very rich – so ordinary taxpayers will not be paying for it. The aim is to remove it as the economy picks up and employers are able to take on more workers on the living wage.

        I dare say someone will now have a look into their crystal ball and tell me that won’t happen, and they’ll be right – because people like them will be actively working to influence people against it.

        • Sarah Sarahssen

          //The alternative is to have people who could work but would rather burden the state clogging up the system and living off the taxpayer, which is exactly the sort of thing the Tories love to say about the benefit system under Labour.//

          I’ve never actually met a person who would rather live on the state’s pittance than work if it were available and they were suited to the rule. I read about them in the press and hear about them from politicians and down the pub, but I’ve just never met anyone who has said that they feel fit and healthy and would rather not work, thanks.

          How many of the people who are currently classed as unemployed do Labour consider to be “swinging the lead” in this manner? As a percentage? This is important, because if these types of people are as a percentage negligible, then costly intervention is merely an exercise in fleecing the taxpayer to line the pockets of favoured businesses. If these types of people are as a percentage significant, then a link to the reports and/or studies that determined this figure would be excellent.

          //As for Labour using taxpayers’ money, have you any idea how many billions the Conservatives have wasted on their schemes, and their private work programme provider companies, that do nothing for jobseekers while sucking down big bucks in funding?//

          I consider both parties to be guilty of the sin of grossly wasting public funds targeting the phantom feckless scrounger, while lining the pockets of their associates and causing untold stress and misery to the lives of hundreds of thousands of oppressed and voiceless people.

          • @sarah the only people who ” wont. Work ” are those so bloody unwell thats almost a waste of time trying to find work but bless them they will try …I give you a clue from some tweets I had this from a neo con twat ” I am not against those who can’t work only those who don’t want to work ” to which I replied ” but to you they are the same ” he came back with ” well ALL these disabled are faking it anyway ” damned if you do damned if you don’t ..

            • Sarah Sarahssen

              Sick people should be left alone, especially when there aren’t even enough jobs for the willing and able-bodied population. The current rhetoric from both sides of the house is a sickening disgrace.

          • I don’t know how many people Labour might consider to be “swinging the lead”, as you put it. That party would have to rely on government figures, I think. But the policy means it won’t be spending huge amounts of public funds targeting these people; either they take the job or they lose benefit. Taking the job still means an increase in available cash (as I have already indicated) so there’s no reason not to.

            • Sarah Sarahssen

              The government figures would be useful for the reasons I outlined a bit higher up – do you have relevant excerpts from any source documents to support the notion that there may be a significant percentage of unemployed people who deliberately refuse work when it is available and there are no barriers to employment in their way (e.g. childcare, chronic illness etc)?

              All taxes must be justifiable, even those on people we might not really like, even billionaire bankers. This proposed policy hinges on ideology, not fact. There is no evidence to support the claim that putting people to work for six months in artificial jobs despite there being no current market demand for those same jobs will create new, permanent job vacancies that the taxpayer does not have to subsidise. The current evidence shows that most people on Mandatory Work Activity placements are not offered permanent jobs with the companies that take them on when their labour is temporarily cheap.

              The same people who are placed on MWA schemes are the ones who would be referred onto this guaranteed jobs scheme. Why, given that they are the same core demographic, would the businesses who work with them when the price is sweetened by the taxpayer and then chuck them when they’d have to offer full market rate – why would these businesses change their minds and create permanent jobs?

              //Taking the job still means an increase in available cash (as I have already indicated) so there’s no reason not to.//

              Lol there are many corpulent and bloated CEOs heading companies who rape, pillage, lie and subjugate their way across the globe who’d I’d never make a penny richer – if it weren’t for the threat of sanction and not being able to feed my seven year old daughter due to silly old “morals”, that is.

              I would do the placement under the duress of my daughter being starved if I never, and I would report every single person for every single violation I could see on the job. I would hold a burning contempt for those “above” me who had forced my arm, and I would never pass an opportunity to sabotage, crush and destroy any of the parties I held responsible for my humiliation.

              • Clearly there would have to be an amount of willingness on the part of participating firms to actually take some people on, full-time, after the period of ‘job guarantee’ work ends, and it would be logical for the DWP to monitor this and, when offending firms were identified, sling them off the scheme.

                It has to be a two-way street in that respect. Now is the time to straighten out details like that. Would you like to contact Rachel Reeves about it or shall I?

                • @mike sivier I guess you will get the old nutmeg about the market decides jobs not govt …
                  Yeah that works ….not….

                • Well, I won’t get anything unless I get in touch with them, so I’ll do that and see what happens.

                • You are joking right? There will be no requirement to take people on, employers are not just going to hand out a million jobs they dont need doing. Unemployment will not be stopped by trying to fix unemployed people, it doesnt create a single job and may even make the problem worse as wages and conditions can be dragged down for everyone. Labour’s scheme is virtually identical to their previous New Deal, which was an abysmal failure, as exploitative as anything the tories have done, cost billions and created the fraudulent welfare to work racket. There is nothing new in these plans and the results will be the same.

                • How do you know any of that?
                  Sarah has been asking me for factual information; now I’m going to ask you for exactly the same. Where are you getting this?
                  Please don’t give me some old flannel about “It stands to reason”.

                • Because the scheme will be based on the Future Jobs Fund as far as I’m aware, where there was no requirement to take people on after placement. But more importantly, if that is the proposal its a joke, the Tories can’t pay firms to take unemployed people on at the moment, they’ll be lucky if they can find a thousand placements let alone a million if firms have to agree to keep people on. You seem to believe that unemployment is caused by unemployed people, when in fact unemployment is a structural necessity for capitalism to work.

            • Perhaps a reason like the one Cait Reilly had?

            • overburdenddonkey

              where do i start…jv, another yet another excellent post…sarah, an idealogical telescopic extension to what already exists…provides voter guilt absolution, financed by the tax payer for the benefit of company profits…the only creativity it has, is to create even more anxiety, insecurity, amongst those in poverty, will drive wages down, increase unemployment and create an even more highly competitive jobs market, than it is now…nothing more than a virtual sheep fold, to hem poverty in, grade and/or degrade and block social mobility. without a doubt dumps the blame of being in poverty, on the impoverished….will cause havoc in an unregulated and highly expensive housing market….@ £7/hr 25hrs/wk is £175/wk..with rent/ct cap, water rates, travel costs, etc, etc, one will be working to barely exist…only people who have precisely what an employer demands (social background et al) will break out of this poverty trap, in fact will very likely have a job or a job lined up and therefore not be in this poverty trap at all…this is a consolidation of social class demarcation…

        • “The alternative is to have people who could work but would rather burden the state clogging up the system and living off the taxpayer”

          and so the labour shills show their true colours

          • @Johnny V well said mate…same old ” scrounger ” cobblers from fucking any party ..has no party got the guts to standup for the unemployed any more ?
            The Jarrow marchers and all that…when did unemployed become the fucking bogeyman ?
            Are these parties all running scared of the fucking media ?
            As if those twunts have a clue on wtf its like near starving to death ..
            Jeez if some party had the bollocks to say that benefits are derisory they would shit themselves because a bunch of self satisfied sods who think they are safe and cozy can make themselves feel smug by looking down their noses at people ..

            • @Johny the thing is that we are going ti face up to the fact that some people are so bloody unwell
              They are never going to be able to work any more ..
              And you can see the NHS going private meaning those privateers will cherry pick the easiest to treat…with the hardest trying to get care from a run down starved health service …what will be the consequense of that I wonder ..more dead people ..

            • @bobchewie – “The Jarrow marchers and all that…when did unemployed become the fucking bogeyman ?”

              It should be remembered that the Labour party of the day opposed the Jarrow march, and that the TUC circularised Trades Councils advising them not to help the marchers. Nothing really changes much…

              • @untywear ok well its all about popularism isn’t it ? Jumping on bandwagons and all that maybe joe public will start to realise the MSM is part of the problem too and god help us think for themselves for a change and if unemployed get support from public without the brainwashing from the tv and newspapers before long the parties being the opportunistic bastards that they are might rethink themselves. Or not..

          • That’s nonsense and you know it.

            The fact is that there are people who will take advantage, and the Tories will take advantage of them to show up a future Labour administration.

            How about answering some of the factual issues I raised?

            • I should point out that I was replying to Johnny V, not bobchewie or Sarah there.

              The point Sarah raises about people who are sick or disabled is a separate issue. The current government has done a huge amount of damage and I am in the process of taking the Information Commissioner and the DWP to a tribunal, in order to find out how many people claiming IB/ESA have died since the start of 2012.

            • @mike sivier so they are going to ring up the daily hate or sexpress to get some juicy bits gleaned from the twats at DWP who should not be giving out private information just to scare the pants off the middle class ? And just trot out cold war rhetoric about communism immigrants and trade unions ?
              And keep running scared of old bollocks that been done to death ? Oh please ..and what happens to us lot getting kicked just sit their and put up with it ?
              We need someone with some bollocks who will show up this garbage for what it is…
              And fucking support us …

            • Where are the politicians who’ll stand up for the unemployed & the sick/disabled then? In truth there are none, all running scared of the the right-wingnut media & the braying “squeezed middle”.Well fuck the selfish middle-classes they’ve had it all their own way since Thatcher’s time, what with their “my mortgage is bigger than yours” mindset.
              It’s time those of us at the bottom of the pile took control, & the only way I can see this happening is to do it ourselves

        • We force people off our schemes and refer them to the retarded decision makers for sanctions so employers would be no different

          • Let’s see some proof that employers would do that.

            If they did, how do you know there would be no safeguards against that?

            • Employers were dumping people on YTS Employed Status a couple of months after the ripe cheque from the YT provider/gov’t cleared in the bank, then asking for a “new” trainee, who they would then only take on as a trainee on YT allowance (free labour) way back in the 90s. The same thing happened in Employment Training and New Deal.

              Guess what? It was the small firms, the self same small firms who you believe to be the saviours in this proposed old guff that were the worst culprits for shafting their trainees this way.

              Apparently safeguards were in place then too.

              • @elohimette any govt worth a mention should get out of the pockets of big business period. If course the neo cons would argue that that govt doesnt understand business..what’s to understand ?
                Where has it got us so far ? Outsourcing and companies trying to run everything ?
                Look at the bloody mess its created ..private
                CCompanies running mental health services
                Ive seen the result and its not funny .

        • >>The alternative is to have people who could work but would rather burden the state clogging up the system and living off the taxpayer, which is exactly the sort of thing the Tories love to say about the benefit system under Labour.<<

          What evidence have you that there would be anything of the kind? 'Benefits Street'?

          Frankly I'm shocked to see Vox, of all people, cravenly playing the neolib's 'shirker/scrounger' card.

          When there are 8 times more unemployed ppl than jobs, there is NO justification for this demonisation.

          I personally have been in more than one minimum wage job where I was harrassed by managers ordering me to choose between sex or being sacked without references. Thirty years later I am no longer ashamed to admit that I was terrorised into giving in (and I am still haunted by the nightmares and flashbacks to prove it) BECAUSE, EVEN THEN, BENEFITS WERE SANCTIONED FOR LEAVING JOBS WITHOUT WHAT THE JOBCENTRE WOULD CONSIDER 'GOOD CAUSE'.

          What you overlook is that often there is a GOOD reason for walking out of a job – even when the walking is done by somone who is young, disabled, poor, or otherwise disadvantaged. These things don't automatically make us liars, any more than it makes us skivers. But going on their current track record, just how likely is it that the DWP Dawn-Marie's of this godforsaken society, would show any compassion?

          For that matter, how are compulsury Basic English classes supposed to help redundant or disabled former professionals in their fifties and sixties? Or will we be sent on free MBA courses instead at our local universities?

          A commitment to reinstate pensions at 60 (or earlier for the chronically incapacitated) would have seemed to be the LEAST that Labour could do. And scrapping the WCA. And abolishing every disability benefits reform since they, LABOUR, started the meddling (the Work Test Whistlblower has blogged evidence that back in 2006 LABOUR was already rubbing their collective hands together about the planned numbers of the sick they intended to throw into the gutter via Atos) and people started dying prematurely in their tens of thousands.

          Mr. Sivier, your Liam Byrne-esque compromising disappoints me even more than Ms. Reeves' callousness.

          • I’m not playing a shirker-scrounger card; it seems there are a few here who want to pin that to Labour but with no tangible evidence for it.

            Why do you suggest English, Maths and IT skills will be foisted on former professionals in their 50s and 60s? That wasn’t part of the speech. They would go to the 1/10 (or thereabouts) of people who don’t have the skills, and the 50 per cent of jobseekers who can’t email (although I admit this seems a shockingly high figure). Former professionals are far less likely to have these issues (although, again, I can’t rule anything out).

            Your wish list is not unreasonable (in my opinion) but Labour has made it clear that the Coalition has made such a mess of the country’s finances that the changes they have made can’t all be reversed at once.

            Okay, you’ve had a knee-jerk reaction against this, but I’ve seen no evidence to show that Rachel Reeves wasn’t sincere about what she wants her planned policies to do. Labour is NOT the Conservative Party in disguise, but outbursts like those I’ve seen here are exactly what’s going to put the Tories back in government in 2015.

            It’s time to stop assuming the worst and start working to get something better. Or are you all armchair politicians?

            As I said before, I am working to get something better. You mentioned the numbers of people dying prematurely due to Atos-run work capability assessment. I’m taking the Information Commissioner (and the DWP) to a tribunal in order to get up-to-date statistics on those deaths released publicly (they have been withheld since November 2011). It’s my hope that the magnitude of the deaths recorded in those figures may trigger the kind of public reaction that needs to happen, to get real change.

            Are you going to sit and gripe about that as well?

            • “They would go to the 1/10 (or thereabouts) of people who don’t have the skills, and the 50 per cent of jobseekers ”

              For crying out loud.

              It will be left to job centre staff to decide who needs Maths English computer training- really think theses people are competent or care. I should think thousand of former professionals will be sent on theses courses — because it’s always a scam to make money from the tax payer– its bums on seats. No one cares if its really needed – its to do with money – it fact they may even prefer the people who can read and write etc , because its less work for the almost allays useless tutors– Please– the government and the country is turning into third world corruption – you are naive – , its the well used dodge of blaming others for what they are ( corrupt, lazy scroungers – that ist the government and every one else involved in welfare reforms etc ) , whilst they point fingers at the defenseless and vulnerable- and line their pockets.

            • this is appeasement
              labour introduced atos, labour started the changes to the welfare system. The fact that the tories have made such an enjoyable job of killing disabled people is because labour set the scene for them – the tory’s are so fucking stupid they would never have thought of these ideas themselves – they’ve been able to apply their ideology upon labour’s misdeeds
              labour has betrayed working people in this country

          • Here here I agree, I was sexually harassed on a daily basis in my last job, in the end much health broke n I was signed off sick 2months, I decided I’d rather risk sanctions then go bk, tthen company went bust!! Lucky I found job after 2weeks only signing on…..

            • something survived...

              Disillusioned said (she?) was raped at work by (her?) boss. Surely that is more than good reason to a) Leave, b)sue them, c)arrest them, d) apply a nailgun to their genitals.

              No clause even now seems to permit you to ‘leave the mandatory placement because it was shit’.

        • i seriously doubt they will be able to find these jobs anyway so its probely a fuss about nothing.

    • They are robbing benefit claimants to put people in jobs with a works guarantee, $157.00 a week even for a single person after paying housing costs, council tax and increased utility costs will be no better than on JSA, but what is the governments answer to this rob benefit claimants again.
      who wants to work for an employer that has just returned from investing in cheap labour abroad?

      • How are they robbing benefit claimants when the money for this comes from bankers and pension tax relief for the very rich?

        • @mike sivier how dare they rob bankers they are superior beings and if we don’t pay then enough they will leave the country …can I say byeeeeeeee now ?

          • Why, are you a banker?

            • @mike sivier ah my secret is revealed at last oh the shame how will i survive ..actually I hold my own bank with contempt since they dipped into my account and took money out for themselves ..of which I reprimanded them …since …grovellingly they replaced the sum and blamed admin error . ie the standard old bollocks .

        • you bastards.

        • I will believe that when I see it, but you cannot deny labour have sided with the tories policy which has been to reduce benefits, that were below the poverty line in the first place according to the Rowntree foundation, in order to make cheap labour look attractive. It was labour that brought in the ultra low minimum wage, who changed unemployment benefit to jsa and conditionality, who despite pledging to get rid of bedroom tax is behind the policies that are being enacted to make sure the bedroom tax policy will be sterile anyway.
          How can you with a straight face say they are not robbing benefit claimants knowing that their benefits will not keep pace with inflation and the tories are calling for another 12 billion of cuts to welfare, where the rich can pick and choose whether they take it or leave it.
          The rich have had enough tax handouts from this government to be able to contribute to the incomes guarantee without feeling any hit to their pockets – be real – we know who the losers are.

          • The above reply is to Mike Sivier.

          • You are confusing Tory and Labour policies, and adding a few assumptions of your own into the mix.

            • They are one and the same policies.

            • ps all their work programmes are run mainly to keep the middle class in a job and help them out of debt, nothing at all to do with bettering the lot of the unemployed.
              Unless a person can afford to buy a 3 bedroom house, you will go where you are put according to all parties, if a shoebox fits wear it.

            • Hon, do you really believe The Parties are far apart in politics and intentions?

              No party understands reality, none have real knowledge of life for the any class other than their own, none have done extensive research into life of the masses prior to taking the role of judging the weaker and less privileged as also playing around with their lives.

              For every career and to succeed in any career, you are required to study hard and outright prove you understand the everything about it before being allowed to enter, whether it be Nursing, Building, Cooking, Teaching, Painting & decorating, even Preaching.
              – But, being a politician is probably the only career that does not require any real research into the what the job actually entails, Unless someone can give me evidence of the research and proven qualification concerning what life for all classes actually is and, cause and effect of all actions taken?
              Furthermore, why does it do its best to exclude those from the working class background via refusing to pay interns? (hence why only the provided for by the same elite classes, are successful in entering parliament)

              We are foolish to believe we are offered a choice when voting – look at the who we are given to chose from – All have no clue other than their own elitist lifestyles and none are qualified in other peoples lives (hence why we have law to enforce control and punishments etc).

              If anyone believes that Labour and Condemns are really fighting each other as a means to save the people in their infantile theatrics in parliament? Well! `ignorance` is all that springs to mind.
              Behind closed doors and after the televised theatrics, does anyone honestly believe they don`t all get along?

              • Yes, ‘Hon’, the parties are a long way apart in terms of politics and intentions – at least, at the grass roots level.

                The problem lies in translating those differences up to Parliament, because we always seem to end up with representatives who are extremely similar in outlook – I know what you’re saying and there is a point to it.

                That won’t change unless people who are members of those political parties make it change. I’m in the Labour Party to effect that kind of change and I have found a certain amount of corruption in my way, it’s true.

                But it is wrong to say there is no difference between the main parties. Saying that is saying that people may as well allow the Tories to continue their metaphorical rape of everyone poorer than them. Do you want that to happen?

                The answer is – as I’ve said, practically since Day One: Get involved. Stop carping from the sidelines and actually get on with making a difference. Stop telling people they can’t change anything because that attitude is precisely what prevents them.

            • Mike – I agree change is needed but, unfortunately do not believe change is possible until a new party is to rise up from the people themselves.

              I may seem to be carping from the sidelines but, I unlike politicians know I do not have the money nor ability to make a stand myself – I am allowed to have an opinion and state that of what I do from experiences and the ever increasing evidence. My opinion is not to be disregarded….

              Being as I am constantly threatened on benefits and now having found a 13 hour job with only hope of more hours to come my way (which makes me extremely vulnerable regarding benefits) time is also consuming (an extra four hours is spent on travel) I am unsure how a person like yourself believes people like us can delve head first into changing our situations?

              Both Labour and The Condemns have made it too difficult for any of us to have any time, money, ability to fight back in any shape or form other than places like this and demonstrations. (Even then the media does nothing to assist of course)

              I don`t so much tell people they cannot change anything as much as I state the truth about the what is going on around them – Many are blindly ignorant – by spreading the truth and opening their eyes to the truth more people will come to see it – We need numbers to see whats going on – with numbers in the know the political parties cannot continue to dupe and failing to do so will be the downfall, not continuous declarations of change can happen if you get involved – people don`t want to if they don`t understand.

              • Making sure people are informed is a good thing – I think the social media are doing a good job in this respect, and are growing in importance – but people need to be encouraged to take action. If you can take part in a dialogue on a comment column, you can write a letter to your MP, your prospective MP from other parties, party leaders – whoever.

                The message for everyone is: You’re only as voiceless as you choose to be.

            • Written plenty of emails to my MP, (Conservative btw) Have even forwarded him petitions from various causes and concerns .

              As yet I am only told what I want to hear or get a load of drivel explaining my concerns are duly noted (and am pretty sure by now I am a name he hates to hear – not bothered by that).

              I do not spend my time idly commenting here without doing all else I can in other areas – I have been pretty active of late both donating to and assisting food banks (I sent an email asking for my MP to come join us – He declined) I even sent a letter to my local paper concerning the food banks – They did not print it

              – Please do not assume all that said here is actually all we are (voices on a page). I would imagine most people here are just as active as I am

              • @Elohimette it seems I have been targetted by some people at the moment ..a sort of campaign aimed at me from certain people or group who Are out to discredit or cause me grief one way or another …I’ve reported it but it still continues …

                Am wondering why . thats the thing ..
                And who…

            • I will add – My donations are small, if I do not say this then I am sure someone somewhere will use my donating as ammo of I can afford to donate whilst on benefit – how can this be?
              My initial donations were fresh veg I grow myself, these were not accepted so I instead donate cheap tins of beans, tomatoes or spaghetti.

            • @bobchewie whos targeting you? and where? in your home town?

              I have had a long day, my apologies if I am seemingly dumb 🙂

              • @elohimette some psycho but job on youtube. Keeps changing his name but threatening me and to do me harm. Ive contacted police already about it but it still persists…..

            • Bobchewie – Easy for me to say I know but, this dickhead making threats does not know who you are.
              Give me the link and I will have them direct their anger at me.

              • @Elohimette. The problem arose because of google. Before on youtube you could use made up name but google changed that by linking your youtube to your google plus account this exposing your real name then forcing you to use real photo plus addingvyour location plus google play android apps where they insist you have location turned on making you vulnerable to any threat as your real name plus photo pluscyour location

                • bobchewie, sorry hon last night I was really not with it.

                  I understand what you are saying now. I hope that this dickhead is stopped and cautioned asap.

                • @Elohimette no it will carry on because someone wants it to carry on till I totally give up ….

            • something survived...

              re bobchewie’s stalker/s:
              That google/youtube policy seems totally thick. Have they not heard of stalkers, or of violent exes?

    • Your quoted comment ‘Experience there …….’. is complete and utter baseless twaddle, and was deliberately worded carefully by the original writer to avoid anybody pulling them on the fact it was twaddle, and baseless.
      MY near 5 decades of experience brings me to the conclusion that every 6 month job scheme there ever was, was abused systematically by
      (almost) every employer who participated from the off, with said employers often being instigational in the setting up of said schemes to achieve just that goal. 25 hrs a week @ minimum wage is designed so the employer can burden a ‘wage light’ bill with very low employers N.I., whilst heaping every and all crap/heavy/dirty/mundane unwanted tasks on the applicant.
      Greed and threat of sanction will ensure that the employee is expected to try a full time workload in part time hours. Dont believe me?
      25 hours a week is 5 hours a day.
      A common scenario is that the position will have been vacant for some time, and the new person will be expected to ‘get on top of it’.
      After 6 months of course, they will be gone and a replacement wont be sought for another 3 months, ensuring a near full time position is covered on a part time temporary wage bill.It is also common for employers to use candidates for totally different roles than shown on paper and supply no training whatsoever.
      But thats enough on that point. How can somebody earn £158 and be better off than benefits? A single room and jsa comes to £160 in the southeast. Travel may be covered (another employER’S subsidy, actually) but the extra sundry costs will ensure no financial gains will be made, except by the employer.
      Your comment on this reinforces the impression the rest of your post gives, which is that you have no real world experience or understanding
      of this subject. If you did, you too would assume the worst.

      • Spot on, Pat! Mike Sivier need to take a look over the parapet of his ivory tower!

      • I’ve got plenty of real world experience, and plenty of experience in being without a job. Why do you think you can make assumptions about me? I haven’t made any about you! Your experience certainly seems different from mine, and so does your attitude – have you contacted Labour to make any of these points, or will you just sit on them?

        For the time being, I’m going to stand by what I’ve said. I have called out Labour on policy blunders in the past – look at the Vox Political articles when Labour was going to support the retroactive Jobseeker Act, and when Miliband made his stupid announcements about social security last June. I think my judgement was right then, and I think it’s right now.

        • I will be honest, I have read your posts here Mike and I believe you are passionate about your party and merely want to help.

          I think most people here (though am speculating because cannot speak for others) are like myself and so far into being screwed by the system that hearing what you say and believe i not so easy received.

          • @elohimette when ppl have been kicked by all parties and even the MSM kick them why is anyond so surprised that claimants are not trusting anyone ? Until parties get out of the pockets of big business it will go on like this…

            PS ..out of curiosity why have I been singled out on here by the trollists?
            Already I have been threatened online

            Something not right there .

        • Sorry meant to say – want to help us see a new improved Labour

          • @elohimette would this be new old labour or old new labour or new new labour or old new super improved deluxe edition labour that comes with bonus tracks ..

            • Darn it, I am reading all out of sync (truly been a tough long day)

              I hear you – I despise all parties, I believe they are all elite scum without a clue. Like I said, I think it is ignorant for anyone believing we are choosing when voting, just look at the shite in which are offered to chose from.

              .As for the Trolls hon – Take it as a compliment – They clearly find you threatening enough to attack.
              Its when they ignore you, you need worry hee hee

              • @Elohimette I think you have missed the point this is not trolling they want to find out where i live so they kick and punch me up…ok physically harm me ….not verbal..
                Not trolling …

            • sorry hon, I am really not on the ball today – reading posts all out of sync too.
              No way, that`s bad. Are you ok?

        • Do you think Labour or any of the other lazy spongers in political parties would give a shit about my opinion? The’re intended purpose in life is to stay on the gravy train saying whatever it takes to do so.
          There is no desire in any of them to improve peoples lives or benefit the country as a whole, only to stuff expensive pies in there own holes.
          The party system needs dismantling as it can only ever serve the interests of the sponsors, and that is neither the base wage workers,the unemployed, the sick or the elderly. The only way this would happen is if everybody voted for a local independent candidate,or via revolution.
          Neither is likely to happen soon, so we are stuck in the quagmire of parties blaming each other for the mess whilst knowing the results were as predicted. I have been stating this opinion most of my life, and certainly dont want to dirty my keyboard contacting parties now.
          30 years in construction, engineering and manufacturing have taught me that anybody who can state career politician as their job is nothing but pond slime.

    • but where’s the jobs?????????????

  18. I was recently referred to the work program is that the same as workfare? A4e are the providers in behalf of the dwp, lots if literature on how they will help me to gain sustainable employment, so far hot air and empty promises, anyone give me guidance on this please?

    • @phoenix ignore it all….A4E pretty much run the DWP on behalf of themselves ..they pretty much said so when one of their top bods admitted that Lord Fraud got all his ideas from them and went on to suggest they played a crucial role in designing the WCA… You got to remember that A4E have been done for fraud on several occasions which tells you a lot how the DWP and the whole shitty mess really is..someone described the DWP as a gift dept completely out of control…think about it
      ATOS crooks on the payroll G4$ crooks on the payroll A4E crooks on the payroll..
      And UJM a fucking joke and Universal Credit a fuckibg expensive mess.. Fuck A4E they don’t give a shit about you are just a cash cow to them…

      • Govt not gift. Ffs sake fkin autokorrect.

        • Thanks bobchewie, I knew A4e were in it for pfofit they openly admit that, what I dont understand is if they get paid on results then why do they drag their feet when trying to secure you a placement? They inform me when I go to see them that my employability is sky high yet nothing is forthcoming from them, no referals, nothing! Im confused!

          • @phoenix they cherry pick they only help those who already can find a way ..then they get you to sign a document so they can claim they helped so can they can claim their money…they are just a bunch of lying theiving cnuts…just walk away and tell them to shove their phoney help up their arse..that way they won’t get paid ..
            You don’t need them…
            Find your own way..

            • But bob, Im threatened with sanctions if I dont do what they ask!

              • @phoenix mate they are called a JOB centre not a sanction centre just remind them what they are getting paid for which is to help you find work are not going to find it with fuckibg A4E …tell the jcp that A4E are fucking useless and would prefer proper help from the job centre that way it shows you ARE trying …and that A4E are shit ..hopefully they won’t get paid and lose the contract thus SAVING TAX PAYERS money which is their mantra ..

            • “they get you to sign a document so they can claim they helped so can they can claim their money…”

              The Data Protection Act waiver – pheonix, don’t sign it ! You don’t have to (though they might imply otherwise), if you don’t, your value to them decreases and you’re more likely to be forgotten about. I refused, and subsequently didn’t hear from my WP provider for 10 months – almost half my WP sentence !

          • Another Fine Mess

            “what I dont understand is if they get paid on results then why do they drag their feet when trying to secure you a placement?”

            They like to make even more money from you at first, by putting you on externally funded useless literacy and ’employability’ ‘courses’.

            Just think of the whole thing as a tax-payer funded scam, and you won’t go far wrong.

            Loads of info:

          • Hi Pheonix, it seems I owe you an apology. `Sorry` – On another post I got annoyed with a comment you gave and assumed you were not within the system – Again my apologies

      • bob chewie: is this johnny void’s site or yours ?
        your inane gobshite comments are degrading this blog
        and doing nothing whatsoever to further any cause.
        please either shut up or at least try to make a positive

    • Do not sign the paperwork that gives them permission to pass your detail onto third parties.
      Watch this.

      • What about mandatory work activity? How can they send you on a placement if you don’t sign a DPA 1998 waiver?

      • FB – Do I have to give the details of my employer to the work program advisor?

        I have recently begun to work for 13 hours (Care Work – hoping to build up hours in time) and she (work program advisor) is hassling me for details of employer.

        I wasnt happy about giving them and have stalled three weeks thus far – have I the right to not hand over these details?

    • A4E can mandate you to attend a workfare placement. They only exist to profit from you as much as they can. They get an attachment fee off you worth £400, sending you on courses also gives them a bit of pocket, sending you on workfare, and completing your placement will help them make a profit. They make a huge sum of money from you if you find work.. if you stay in work, depending on your age and/or if you are on ESA, it could be between £1500-4000. probably more thank that actually.
      To make a sustainable employment payment (google ‘work program provider guidance’ ) they need to contact your employer to confirm details are correct. They used to need data consent from you, but now DWP has changed a law, so A4E can phone your employer freely! (you can still write to them asking not to contact your employer/share your data, but its likely they could ignore it)
      The only way to prevent this is to NEVER tell them or the DWP, that you have got a job, never hint about where you are working. Hand in the green book at the job center saying you don’t want to claim JSA, no reason given. They cannot sanction for this.
      They can be highly manipulative. You do not need to sign an action plan, provide them with you contact number, or a CV, You can show them your CV to prove that you have one. but never give it to them. If they demand it, say you need to see this requirement in a mandated letter. If you can record them on your phone , use what they say for your personal reference, and challenge any wrong doing with the centre manager.. This is you data protection right, and they cannot sanction for it.

      • @fluffy dragon I do not know why a company charged with fraud can have so much power over any one.

      • I also read that if the work program have your employers details they can log these into their database thus with the right ( aka – audacity) to then state they themselves were involved in finding you this employment whilst you were under their watch.

        This is then logged onto the gov`s statistics and used against us in up & coming reviews.

        I sent a letter/email withdrawing my consent, refusing also (in writing) to hand over my employers details stating they did not find me the job whatsoever……………Am due in tomorrow, gonna be interesting!!! 🙂

  19. Vote Class War and send a message to these toffs,

  20. No decent firm would take anyone on for 25 hours a week, can you imagine the conversation once you’ve completed your 25 hours:

    Hey jim where are you going?

    I’ve done my 25 hours for the week and I’m off, see you next monday 9:00am.

    All hell would break loose!

    • They will if the tax payer is paying the wage bill though, which is what this proposal suggests, otherwise you’re correct its completely unworkable. But if this goes out to private companies, and they can get tax payer funded free workfare workers, then why would they bother employing anyone else to do entry level work.

      • I remember when I was on my last New Deal (13 weeks) back in 2009, some people were sent to charity shops for 40 hours a week, the Private Provider mysteriously forgot to tell them they were only supposed to do 22 hours maximum and spend the remaining 8 hours doing jobsearch back at the providers office.

        Well, some of us older one’s told them this and so they started leaving the charity shops after 22 hours, next thing you know the charity shop’s are on the phone to the Providers saying that we need these people for 40 hours.

        That caused a very big problem because the provider started losing credibility, but they couldn’t do anything about it.

        The same thing will happen with this new thing.

      • Well said Johnny V

  21. Anyway I’m ready for the next instalment Benefits Street – tonight.

  22. Attacking the unemployed is a vote winner unfortunately. Reeves couldn’t give a fuck about the poor, she will happily trample them to help further her career. She’s just as big a cunt as IDS.

    • I wouldn’t even bother reading the shite that crawls out of Guido Fawkes gob hes just a Thatcherite ponce with a permanent sneer which he checks in the mirror before he writes ..he sounds like someone who after taking a dump thinks he has done a shit that is better than anyone else which is true because thats pretty much what he writes .

      • @Obi what the fuck are you doing going near Guido Wankface blog ?
        Hes just a Tory cunt who likes to show off how clever he is because he knows a few Tory MP Ponces..stockbroker type wouldnt give him the time of day even if I made clocks .

        • Stupid bastard closed his blog on tge day maggie thatcher kicked the bucket he did it out of ‘ respect ‘ for the old witch ..trouble is he started it up again ..shame as it made a change not having to have his fucking ” wisdom” chucked at us..

      • Bob it’s the shite that comes oot guido’s mouth mate it’s more offensive than the shite that comes oot his thatcher worshipping arse.

  23. I can’ really blame anyone for stealing electricity if they are unable to cook a meal or keep warm.

    I can’t blame anyone stealing gas to cook or keep warm.

    I can’t blame anyone for stealing to put food on the table.

    I can’t blame anyone making fraudulent claims.

    We are not animals, we are human…………………….


    I can blame the bastards in power that allow people to be driven to do these things, and, if i have to do these things to survive, then i will do the same……………………….






      • So true – The biggest parasites are those who feed off of the poor and the misery they inflict.- Yet those who steal to survive are punished and paraded as scum – aint life grand for the elitist bastards

  24. Probably the most expensive piece of equipment in my home, to run, would be the washing machine……………….

    It guzzles well over 2000 watts and the nail we used to bridge the meter begins to glow.

    We have therefore moved the chairs and t.v. near to the electric cupboard because it’s now the warmest place in our home!

    • @GEOFF fuck me you do lead an ” interesting ” life ….keep going Geoff..

      • Anyone heard bout Liverpool council taking govt to European courts Coz welfare policy denying. EU laws bout rights to basic food, clothing, housing etc?

        • The European courts will say, if you won’t pay migrants why should they pay you, despite the fact that people here have lived and worked a lifetime in this country paying for the welfare state.

          • If They won’t pay migrants, why should they pay you. ECHR is nothing like the Hague it’s more like the plague when dealing with the poor in developed countries. They are all in it together.

          • Yep u right there. D’OH Kat!! It just makes me so mad way ppl r being treated…!

  25. Pingback: More Poverty, More Homelessness, More Deaths: L...

  26. The DWP Decision Maker is God’s apprentice. He has been bestowed with the power to make a decision if you live or die.

    The link between you and the cemetery, indeed, thousands have already met untimely ends after being sanctioned.

    Power is like a drug, and to the misguided, exerts a feeling of superiority that transcends even the basis of a frugal existence.
    The greater the destruction the greater the buzz!

    Bit like a serial killer on steroids, hence the DWP’S reluctance to monitor the rising mortality rates.

    They post their mistakes in a plain brown envelope from an unknown office, from an unknown assailant shrouded in the mystery of not knowing the real effects of those they judge.

    We bury their mistakes…………………………

    Yet nobody is responsible for the indirect murders of the weakest, just another day at the office for these target driven assassins………….

    A mile and three quarters of coffins already and growing everyday………

    Death by discretion, the flick of a pen or the tick of a box?

    ………………..endorsed by the Secretary of State, THE SAME PERSON WHO AUTHORISED ATOS’S CULL OF THE DISABLED,





    TWELVE TIMES MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    …………………and nobody has noticed?

    • Really good article. I thought he was whiter than white, but he is another cog in the faulty machine………….
      Lobbying, lying and cheating seem to be the hallmarks of a modern M.P.

  28. O/T-anyone that has not signed please sign this petition

  29. Liverpool Council is reporting David Cameron to the United Nations, claiming that his government could be breaking international rules on keeping people out of poverty.
    Authority bosses believe the coalition – through its controversial policies such as the hated bedroom tax and welfare reform – could be in breach of the UN economic and social rights convention that sets out minimum standards for access to food, clothing and housing.

    Labour members from all parts of the city have spoken of the evidence they have gathered of people who were being forced into degrading poverty because they were being denied access to benefits they desperately needed.
    Many are ending up having to resort to what they said was effectively “begging” for food at food banks, the Liverpool Echo reports.
    At a meeting this week, councillors heard stories of people stripped of their dole money for up to 16 weeks because they had been late for interviews or had failed to meet the criteria of the government’s Welfare to Work programme.
    And they heard claims that in some job centres in the city, suspensions of benefits and other sanctions had risen by up to 500% since 2012.
    But the government has hailed the removal of benefits from people who “aren’t pulling their weight” as evidence that the “something for nothing” culture was being tackled.
    Cabinet member for children’s services in Liverpool Cllr Jane Corbett, who brought forward a motion along with Croxteth Cllr Barry Kushner, said: “We were elected to represent the people of Liverpool and speak up for them, fight for justice for them to make sure their voices are heard.”

    In a rare moment of cross-party unity, Lib Dem Cllr Pat Moloney said: “It is the moral purpose of government to protect its citizens … and to keep them out of hunger and worse.”



  32. Ridiculous, 25 hours!!!!!……INSANE….and then 10 hours training.
    No mate, this is tyranny, not allowed to volunteer VOLUNTARILY for more than 16 hours, but you are FORCED to work (voluntarily) 25 hours for the gubbermint, SCANDALOUS, disgusting, no hope of a better life for anyone now, the only way to better yourself now is DIE, else live out the rest of your years suffering and then die, whilst watching filthy leeches take too much for doing too little…ie government, bankers, strippers, whores, over paid civil service Judas scum, you get to watch them LIVE as you suffer THEN die….FUCK THAT….my choice is clear now, this IS war

  33. its never a “healthy” situation when the leader of the opposition is “bezzy mates” with the inpower government this is a consequence of this as leader of the opposition you do NOT have barbeques and christmas meals with the encombent party ideologies become “mxied together” over a glass of finest claret this was bound to haapen

  34. just a little interesting thing i picked up whilst going through musicall items online clegg has had david bowie mick jagger elton john and many other celebs too his house for “cosey dinners” whats wrong with this? he thinks of himself as a celebrity not a politician in years to come i hope folk dont forget CLEGGS role in all this

    • Thing is, once you are loaded in this world, you are deemed worthy of anything – Celebs are given knighthoods for f*cks sake, so cosy tea`s with elite scum screwing the country is all in a rich c*nts day
      Its the people who do most good in this world that are actually believed as scum. (Carers / Nurses )
      If you don`t have money? you aint worth shite.

  35. “HM Prison Oakwood: Ambulance called nearly every day”

  36. Part of me is glad people are discovering the true facts about labour, Still many people believe they are better than the tories.. when they are the same. Labour isnt and hasnt been the saviour of the people, they are red tories, Its a race to the bottom and who is going to suffer.. NOT THEM

  37. So Labour are not riding to the rescue. I suppose that I’ll have to vote for the TSUC or some other micro-party with no chance of getting in, and uselessly waste my vote.

  38. Reblogged this on The Heckler.

  39. @Johnny Void Of course I don’t believe that unemployment is caused by unemployed people. Please don’t attribute attitudes to me that aren’t true.

    • If you don’t believe that then why do you think unemployed people should be forced to work in a shitty part time temporary job pegged at minimum wage or lose their benefits? How can that help bring down unemployment, unless the idea behind it is that there is something wrong with unemployed people, they lack a work ethic etc? The entire purpose of these schemes, and sanctions generally, is to pin the blame for unemployment onto unemployed people, something Labour started and the Tories have continued.

      • Why are you assuming that these will be “shitty part time temporary” jobs. You are pre-judging, and your assumptions are colouring your entire attitude to this. You don’t know any of the things you are saying, yet you are presenting them as fact. At no point in the speech yesterday did Rachel Reeves suggest that unemployed people lack a work ethic; the policies you’re complaining about were announced as a way to help people who precisely DO have that work ethic to get into paying jobs. The sanctions are there to catch people who don’t want to work – however many of them there may be. If you are right and all unemployed people do have a work ethic and do want to get into paying jobs (which is implied by your words) then those sanctions may never be used.

        Also your attitude to job creation seems to be that the job market will never expand. Why?

        • Landless Peasant

          There are not, and can not ever be, enough jobs for everyone. Capitalism NEEDS unemployment in order to exist. Someone MUST be unemployed. The State has a responsibility to adequately provide for its people. If jobs are to be ‘created’ out of thin air then you can GUARANTEE that they will be fucking shite jobs that no one else wants.

        • overburdenddonkey

          mike s
          inspite of all of the current reports on the use of sanctions you still agree with them, beggars belief….people are desperate for decently paid work in the uk…

          • I’ve just been chatting with a few people who will be directly affected by this if Labour win next year – and they’re all for it. Obviously it’s an unscientific survey, and far too few people to be representative of the nation, but they agree with me that the intention seems right, and the threat of sanctions is necessary to prevent the possibility of people abusing the system.

            It’s the ABUSE of sanctions that they oppose (as do I). There is a difference and it is important. One person said staff at the local Job Centre had been sacked for abusing the procedure, which is a step in the right direction.

            Abuse of sanctions occurs because JCP staff are given targets to meet by Tory ministers at the DWP. We do not know that Labour will impose such targets – or any targets at all, and we do not know that Labour will not impose checks and balances to ensure that the system is fair. You are presuming one way; I am taking the opposing view.

            • Someone turns up to JC+ ten minutes late for their signing appointment.
              They apologise, the traffic was bad maybe or the bus didn’t turn up.
              They are sanctioned. They lose their benefits for several weeks, lose the roof over their head, they can’t afford food, prescriptions, travel, warmth. They are left vulnerable and devastated. In that position, it’s not too far a fall to go from being alive to being dead.

              Someone in real paid work turns up ten minutes late on a normal working day. They apologise, the traffic was bad maybe or the bus didn’t turn up.
              They apologise to the boss and get on with their normal working day. At worst for a first time offence, the boss asks them to turn up on time in future. The employee finishes their working day, goes home where they may have food, warmth and other basic essentials that allow them to keep on being alive.

              Can you see the difference?

              Punishing and forcing people to jump through ridiculous hoops to avoid being punished even further is NO way to treat any living being. It’s beyond unethical. It’s beyond offensive.

              For those who say similar “sanctions are essential to punish those who ARE taking the piss, but not you” I believe that you have bought into the shirker/scrounger rhetoric and may as well just out yourself as a closet Tory.

              Sanctions kill.

              It will never be possible to create a sanction based regime that is not open to massive abuse because the system is now based on abuse of those who are legally entitled to claim benefits and it needs abusive individuals who are happy/pressured/coerced into acting abusively by implementing it.

              Why on earth would anyone purporting to be a supporter of those who have fallen foul of this ridiculous system, support a system that kills?

              • I already made clear that nobody knows how Labour will run sanctions on its schemes. If you want to confuse the current situation with what may happen in the future, go ahead, but don’t expect me to agree with you.

                I’m not supporting a system that kills, and would not support that in the future.

                • @Mike Sivier by supporting the principle of sanctions without realising it you are in effect saying the benefit system is flawed and that welfare ( god how I hate that term..its just an amendment to the social security act ) is needed thus lending yourself to the idea that benefits should be scrapped because its flawed because its ” riddled withfraud ”
                  The corps tax system is but its ” legitimage tax avoidance techniques ” the sums avoided exceed benefit fraud .
                  But its just ” the poltics of envy ” which is a tired old cliche ..
                  Telling someone if they work hard they will become miionaures just like Mr Rich bilionaire ( who belongs to a private wealth club ) certainly supports the politics of envy

              • @Lucy have you or others deconstructed anything ? Eg your comment about sanctions ..a claimant has their only source of income stopped because they were a few minutes late for an appointment someone will starve because an employee of a govt felt that has been given a target to fail people and so use the fact that a bus driver who has domestic problems or there is mechanical problems with the bus or there has been an accident on the road thus delaying said bus or train or weather..
                And they claim that human beings are the most intelligent species ?

            • overburdenddonkey

              mike s
              imv, that is a self defeating argument, because if there were enough real (decent jobs with prospects) new jobs in the uk economy they would be taken up in a flash, therefore uk unemployment would drastically fall…if this were to happen, then the so called “need”, for sanctions would also drastically fall/diminish. and would be considered a waste of administrative effort, as the main thrust of jcp, would be concentrated on the actual prospect of real employment, rather than arbitrary punishment for not doing enough to find work that is currently not available, 8 people chasing 1 job hope, notwithstanding the natural jobs churn in the currently employed market, natural wastage etc….we need principled long term investment in the provision of worthwhile long term employment in the uk..this is clearly not happening atm…this new, new deal scheme, will do nothing to create new worth while (ethical, principled) employment in the uk and will not stimulate the uk economy at all, it dampens the uk economy…to provide the extra sustainable employment in the uk would need a £0.8bln/annum, cash injection into the uk economy, this would be classed as an economic miracle..or alternatively a drastic economic rethink…any new govt worthy of election must come up with a viable long term economic plan of principled investment, designed to specifically target the vast and varied skills of the people of the uk, and not the narrow minded, selfish, self-centred, ego driven, investment that exists today…britain could be world leaders in eco-jobs….job satisfaction/pride in what ever we do…

            • overburdenddonkey

              mike s
              slight typo, should read £0.8trl/annum and not bln….

            • MS, how in the name of sanity can you call yourself a “labour supporter” when labour are just echoing the type of sanctions regime that the tories (& their LimpDem poodles) would be proud of?
              I’ve folloowed your blog for some time now, & have found some of your articles admirable, so disappointed to find that it appears you are now endorsing this pathetic “skivers v scroungers” rhetoric so beloved of our unelected shambles that dares to call itself a government. Shame on you!

              • I’ve told everyone here that I’m not endorsing any ‘strivers v skivers’ rhetoric (not skivers v scroungers – they’d both be on the same side according to the Tories). If you read the speech at you’ll find Rachel Reeves isn’t fond of it either:

                “One of the most striking features of this government’s unfair approach to deficit reduction, for all their nasty, divisive rhetoric about ‘skivers’, has been its attacks on support for people in work…”

                • @Mike Sivier then suggest scrapping benefit sanctions then…
                  All the time you support it you ARE playing the tune that claimants are scroungers
                  Sorry but you are..maybe you don’t realise it but you are accepting that a punitive system is acceptable .. Knowing full well that it is being used to perpetuate the skiver concept
                  After all if its scrapped miilions upon miions will automatically defraud the system no doubt companies try to deny claims .
                  Atos does the same..look where that has gone..

                  The argument is that if you didnt have sanctions then fraud will escalate and as result will deny benefits for those in real need because the money will run out..due to fraud and yet already there is millions in unclaimed benefits …
                  So that suggests its bollocks .

            • Dammit, it’s late, meant to type “strivers v scroungers” not skivers!

            • Landless Peasant

              I’ve been chatting to a few friends & neighbours too, all of them unemployed, and everyone I’ve spoke to, that’s every single one of them, is entirely opposed to this Blue Labour fucking bullshit. Every one of them also said they would vote Green rather than Labour. Every one of them thinks Labour have sold out and are no different to the Tories.

          • Aaaah Donkey! Supporting sanctions, punishment and ridiculous fake employment schemes might get a person an invite to Newsnight and maybe Rachel Reeves will be there too and she can bestow her thanks on that person for their support.

            Let the media attention scrabble commence!

        • Like Pat Ato above and many of the posters here, I have seen at first hand all of the schemes from a succession of governments in the last 30 years. Every single one has been designed by those who have never had to live on benefits, nor had to work in low end, poverty wage jobs. Without exception every one of these schemes has been a failure for the hapless claimant who ends up on them.

          Posters are assuming that this new guff ‘n punishment scheme from Labour is going to be crap because past experience has proved to them that it will be crap. When you live in fear of no income and homelessness, you are naturally going to be 100% suspicious and scathing of any “new” scheme that is likely to make your life unendurably worse.

          The work will be low skilled, low end, low pay It will have no future beyond the extent of the scheme and if a person refuses it, they will lose their benefits. That sounds pretty similar to all the other schemes and also the sanctions regime most of us here are living in fear of.

          In past schemes, monies were paid to employers to employ participants, they could receive huge cheques for taking someone onto the books permanently but even those big old pay outs of £2k (YTS in the 90s) couldn’t persuade the money grabbing employer from sacking the individuals a couple of months after banking the cheques and asking for another “trainee” to be supplied.

          To me, it is even more offensive that Labour are planning to force anyone claiming benefits to have their literacy, numeracy and IT skills assessed. Assessing individuals is a very business. Skilled and qualified individuals won’t be carrying out these assessments. It will be the low skilled aggressive WP staff, the clerks in the JOC+ of whom many have not been educated beyond 16 years old.

          Literacy and numeracy skill shortfall has always been a target for horrific levels of stigmatisation for the individual. Our society is intolerant and wilfully obtuse when it comes to understanding how a person has got to adulthood and still can’t write or recognise their own name and address when it is written down. Thankfully total lack of functional literacy is rare, but skill shortfall that still causes a person untold problems in their daily lives is very, very common. Providing a safe learning environment, proper resources, showing a full understanding of the issues around adult basic education is way beyond the remit of those who will likely end up doing the assessments.

          One of the most basic tenets of learning is that for it to be true learning, it must be voluntary and without fear. The learner must have control over what they are asked to do. This new system won’t allow any learner control.

          To make learning anything other than voluntary by wafting the possibility of losing benefit by sanction, the sack or claim closure in front of the individual is not only unethical and cruel, it will ensure that absolutely no useful learning takes place. No one learns anything from punishment except fear of more punishment, that is the bottom line.

          Mike Sivier, whilst it is clear that you support New Labour, it is less clear that you understand the implications for the individuals who will be thrown onto these schemes or have to endure abusive and incompetent assessments.

          This new proposal for a scheme put forward by Labour, is going to be workfare in everything but name. The usual suspects will be running it and profiting from it. The usual suspects, the claimants are the ones who are going to suffer from it. As usual.

          • I don’t support neoliberal New Labour. I’m a member of Labour but the two things aren’t the same except in some people’s minds.

            As for the rest of your comments, I’ve said my piece.

            • “I don’t support neoliberal New Labour. I’m a member of Labour”

              Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh…

            • Yes, you’ve said your piece and I have said mine. You have made it evident that you support sanctions that wreck lives and sometimes kill, you have made it very clear that you don’t (or maybe won’t) understand the implications of these ridiculous ineffective schemes.

              Whichever party you are a member or supporter of, appears to be of no relevance.

              But hey, supporting a new, shiny, good looking Shadow minister might just get you some media interviews.

              • I have not said I support sanctions that wreck lives and sometimes kill. Please do not attribute words to me inaccurately.

                I support sanctions that will ensure that the proposed system works properly – as I support checks and balances on the businesses taking part, in order to ensure that they do not abuse the scheme either. I do not support attacks on the vulnerable because they are easy targets. Read Vox Political and that should come over very clearly.

                Your implication that I might be saying this to get “media interviews” is contemptible.

              • @Lucy the argument is that sanctions are a deterrence against fraud ..and yet we have seen already the consequence of these sanctions ie the death toll rise ..
                Perhaps some bureaucrat will decide that these deaths meet ” acceptable levels ” a sort of collateral damage that is to be expected for ” the greater good “

            • Labour’s past didn’t work either: notes from 1922


            • “Your implication that I might be saying this to get “media interviews” is contemptible.”

              Well, you make me laugh anyway, keep them coming…

            • Mike Sivier is dangerous or Is in cloud cuckoo land- if anyone cares what I think
              Perhaps he’s just naive — trying to solve problem, but all this authoritarian talk will usher in a nightmare authoritarian dystopian future.
              By the way the right left paradigm no longer exits, there is no difference between the parties, nothing worth a mention, it’s a con.
              Authoritarian government is the problem they force kids to their schools and after years of their education some can’t read or write?. Really think more authoritarianism is the answer? — They force people to attend schools but fail to educate them so then now force them on courses and if they don’t pass or can’t go with it because the school messed them up so much they can’t learn –and at the end of it sentence them to die of the cold and hunger if they can’t pass a test . What or who gives them this power to mess things up and peoples lives up so much ?
              When I first heard the they were going to introduce tests for immigrates I knew it wouldn’t be long before someone starting talking about making it a condition to benefits for the British too. We are going down the totalitarian nightmare road- absolute control of the individual.

            • Mike Sivier | January 21, 2014 at 2:12 pm | Reply
              I don’t support neoliberal New Labour. I’m a member of Labour but the two things aren’t the same except in some people’s minds.

              there you go again – any difference is in people’s minds not in the way the labour party organises itself and betrays working people every single day – you can’t have it both ways and what you say is appeasement

              • Think what you want; I don’t think anything I say here is likely to change anybody’s minds.

                What a shame.

                • @Mike Sivier ” what a shame ” ? Listen there
                  are a lot of people on here who Are trying to find a way and a lot of very unwell people who have been kicked and kicked by DWP and WPP and been sanctioned and depicted in media as criminals and you think one word you post is going to change all that ?
                  And you think its still all their fault because they wont listen to your pearls of wisdom
                  Ppl are angry and frightened and not trusting of any party ..cant you see that ?

          • It always is because of the far too cosy relationship with pparties and big business ..

          • Bollocks to Sanctions

            Spot on, Lucy! Mike Sivier is talking shite! Sanctions have NO FUCKING PLACE in a modern benefits system!

          • wow, well said!!

        • Sanctions only purpose is to create a survival anxiety amongst the poorest. A job guarantee that is unsuitable (e.g. long travel distance, dangerous, inappropriate skill match) is only accepted in fear of sanction, a weapon of social violence. Someone who does not accept or fails to complete the job well, and is sacked, would be more likely to be one of the vulnerable. And we still have vulnerable people on JSA. This blue labour policy is highly authoritarian, This is the new aged work house . And will we still have 3 year sanctions under labour? maybe..
          sanctions may look like a good idea to motivate people, but in reality they are state violence towards the poor, only to create more hardship, destitution, crime and child poverty.

          • overburdenddonkey

            i agree with you….but in passing i’ll add this, the myth of a socialist labour political party…your post prompted me to re-ask the question has there ever been a socialist labour party in government in the uk?…my memories, of a whole raft of my family and relations like to tell me that there has been or at least a strong aversion to the tory badge. a strong aversion to tories, is not the same thing as a truly socialist govt, but more of a solidarity from the workforce against the power of the bosses/ruling classes…a tory on yer doorstep was given short thrift, never got to “can i come in?”…..imo we are now retrospectively witnessing a collective cognitive convergence affect, amongst the political classes, there are no antidote mechanisms in place to prevent this….meritocracy is approved of and welcomed within the current political system, there is no refresh button to press…the merits of human need have been discontinued/relegated, and substituted with greed…the voices of those who suffer have been almost, if not totally, insulated/isolated….

  40. Landless Peasant



  41. Landless Peasant

    That twat Cruddas is behind this crap. Fucking Blue Labour.

  42. Landless Peasant

    Contact Rachel Reeves and let her know what you think of this bullshit:

  43. “I support sanctions that will ensure that the proposed system works properly ” – Mike Sivier, up-thread ^

    Any sanction system is going to result in abuse. Systems that are designed to be based on punishment will always end up with individuals being abused. The tools for sanction are weapons.

    The sanctions regime we currently have is resulting in some people dying.
    You can’t make someone un-die when you realise that the sanction you gleefully applied to make your weekly target and win an Easter egg, was wrong. They are still dead and always will be.

    You might believe that they are shafting the system, that they are a scrounger or skiver of the first order. But if you applied a sanction to them (coloured by your own prejudice and validated by the written rules or culture of your office) and that person ends up homeless and dead, you have a responsibility for that death.

    Sounds extreme. It is an extreme assault on the well being of the poorest and most isolated groups in our country. I see no evidence in any of the “oooh look at us Cameron, we can be even tougher than you” type policy plans from Labour that they will do anything differently if they get into power.

    You support a future system with sanctions. It is an accepted given that sanctions are punishment. It is an evidenced given that people are dying because of sanctions.

    You can’t have it both ways Mike

    Your belief that JC+ and WP workers are going to be properly trained and competent in either referring individuals for assessments or carrying them out yourselves is naïve beyond belief.

    …..and you aren’t the first political blogger who appears keen to curry the approval of a Shadow minister then bathes in the glory of resultant media meetings.

    You know it.

    • @LUCY quite correct and I think you for that ..sanctions by its very nature infers guilt opon a claimant ..
      You have declared every claimant guilty of fraud..thus propping up the scrounger idea ..
      We have laws against criminal acts do we infer that the fact that we have such laws infer that everyone is guilty

  44. obd what are we talking about here?

    • It’s a reply to Mike Sivier posting upthread about how he supports the brand, spanking new Neo-Liberal Labour policy of sanctioning benefits, forcing people into low paid pretend work, paying employers to profit from these actions and basically doing everything that the Tories are doing, with the only differences being that a) The colour for New Labour is red and Tory colours are blue and b) people will be rendered homeless and dead in her proposed scheme….

      ….so no real difference to what we have now then.

      I wish the reply function didn’t have a thread limit. You can hit reply to a comment and it’s pot luck where it comes up 🙂

      • Definition of sancti….

      • I find if I post to the first person who spoke in that particular comment link, I end up below the last person who spoke.
        I think that makes sense?

        • Here’s a quick update on how it went today, with MPs voting again on the gagging law.

          I’m afraid it’s bad news. Most Conservative and Liberal Democrat MPs chose to follow party orders. They reversed the main improvements made in the House of Lords.

          This means they voted:
          – to remove new rules limiting secret lobbying by big business
          – to put back in key limits on what campaigners, charities, and voluntary groups can do to speak up on issues of the day [1]

          It’s pretty depressing. But it’s not over. The House of Lords will now get another vote – probably next week. They have the option to refuse to back down, and force MPs to vote yet again.


          CAMPAIGNERS / CHARITIES ARE TOLD SHUT UP AND NOT COMPLAIN OR PROTEST. If they do they will be breaking the law..
          But business can carry on and lobby for business and do what the fuck they like

          • My NAME is my NAME

            bob chewie
            With regards to CAMPAIGNERS/CHARITIES
            “They wont be breaking the law.
            You can’t break a [pseudo law].
            No one may be accused except by RULE OF LAW.
            The’re just PRACTICING Law.
            It’s an illusion.
            If you believe it, then you’re in their jurisdiction.

            • @my name etc they are trying to create a law that makes it ok for lobbying on behalf of business to remain secret whilst in effect outlaw any form of campaigning or protest against govt policy..

              And yet have the audacity to call this country democratic…

        • Yes it makes sense, thanks elohimette 🙂

    • @guy Fawkes we are talking about the price of fish ..oh wait which guy Fawkes am I replying to here now ?

  45. JV we have had some wonderful new commenters on here Sarah Sarahssen, Lucy, etc. keep up the good work and keep the dictatorial hypocrites from all parties on the run.

    • Let me second the kudos to Lucy, fantastic stuff 🙂

      • @Sarah apparently I am a gobshite who should shut up on here..this is not the first time I have been told off…I wonder quite what it is I post that troubles certain people so..and indeed who are they ..

        • Sarah Sarahssen

          Ahhhh Bob there’s some right sad bastards out there who don’t get you, and there always will be. Ignore ’em and keep on having a laugh with us 🙂 xx

          • @Sarah. I am concerned as I have had threats made at me on other websites violent ones too..I have had to call the police as well and still they persist despite me calling the police and the police visiting me…

      • Sarah, you say what I don’t have the eloquence or political knowledge to say and you say it well!

        Thanks Guy Fawkes and Sarah for your encouragement, it means a lot 🙂

  46. Oh yes I see, I thought you meant something on this site. Yes it has a go at his party snp too lol.

  47. Rachel Reeves – IDS in a wig

  48. The international monetary fund has sharply increased it’s growth forecast for the uk economy…
    It now expects the economy to grow 2.2% this year,faster than any other european economy…….

    What a load of fucking claptrap!
    Feed the machine with twisted figures and it will spew out the crap you expected…………


    even my old lady who works voluntary in sally army says moneys tight, nobodys spending…………………

    who’s fooling who?

  49. Labour party worried about class war taking seats lol. Labour didn’t do much with there new deal, they introduced workfare ? So you support ed milliband , yes a real working class hero, been in greggs and everything.

  50. “Mike Sivier | January 21, 2014 at 5:39 pm |
    Think what you want; I don’t think anything I say here is likely to change anybody’s minds.
    What a shame”.

    Being a frequent reader of many of the welfare/political blogs I take exception to this comment. This commenter appears to indicate that he is the sole arbiter of what is correct here. He announces his position and then tries to defend it by all manner of means and concludes by taking his bat home because no one will listen. What he seems totally blind to is the lived experience of people here, it counting for nothing in his eyes, in a similar manner to the way the DWP and politicians do – sneering, patronising and negative.

    I would say that his belief in ‘labour’ as he calls it may actually be not very far from many commenters BUT he cannot proselytise the value of a political party in some ideal way in the knowledge and experience that the Labour Party and New Labour and Today’s Crap Labour have actually ever been anything more than closet tories. The right wing of the labour party has always held sway – all the way back to Wilson’s government with right wing radicals like George Brown as Chancellor telling health workers they couldn’t have a pay rise!!! The right wing is still in the ascendency. Rachel Reeves latest missive does no more than fuel the fire that labour (whoever they are) can’t be trusted and offer more of the same. There has not been an Opposition party for 3 years as the Coalition has wreaked havoc. There’s no wonder nobody trusts them. What have they done to deserve our trust?? Come on Mike Sivier – what have they done to to garner our support??? All they do is play to the tory newspapers, their agenda is controlled by them – where is the inspiration? Where is the support for ordinary people?? Where is their fight for decency and justice for the common man??? There is NONE

    Maybe, Mike, you need to reconsider what you say and where it comes from. You cannot blame people here for having the views they hold – it is born out of lived experience. You can’t have a view that supports labour and stand by and watch as it acquiesces into a right wing talk and do machine.MPs like Michael Meacher and John McDonnell appear to have a sympathetic ear for these causes BUT they are still in the labour party, picking up their salaries and expenses and getting nowhere because they are diluted in their messages and action by the blunderbus that is Miliband’s army of dorks. if labour get elected just look at who will be on the front bench – awful isn’t it!

    You go away with your closed views
    What a shame

  51. overburdenddonkey

    g fawkes
    and of course going at full tilt, full speed, under full sail… the blades of windmills are often referred to as sails, all have been in use for millennia….2 types of tilt, tilt of sail and tilt of ship, against the resistance set up by the keel, harvesters of the wind…the meaning of tilt lives deep in the human psyche….the fascinating thing is that this “memory” is there…

  52. I wonder if they are friends with prince Harry ?

    Tells us all what the powers that be get up to!.

  53. I’d like to see blue fucking labour send me to numeracy & literacy course, I sat the C & G Levels 1 & 2 in both maths & english about 3 years or so ago & got the the highest score the examiers had ever seen on the Level 2 english paper, 98%, a pass was set at 69% , the previous highest score was 80%. I also scored 87% on the maths paper, a pass was 62% & neither paper could be classed as easy.
    It can almost be guaranteed these remedial courses labour (I’ll spell it with a lower case “L”, they don’t deserve a capital) are proposing will be set at such a low basic level, it will be an insult to anyone’s intelligence to have to endure them, for however many weeks these courses will run for.

  54. FOA: Andrew Coates intensiveactivity is down! What’s happened? Being followed by the fucking DWP, next minute the site is down! Co-incidence or co-incidence? Same cunts at work no doubt that brought TT’s site down. If they can’t fuck the site up they take it down! Fuck you JC/DWP/IDS! Cunts!

    • @god and dice there maybe s rational.explanation but in view of the other site that went offline yes I would be suspicious ..

      • Bobchewie, Off topic but in response to the link – I spent 9 years diagnosed with a mental illness (bipolar / manic depression) several psychiatrists and 12 Doctors bullied me into treatments I will never recover from – until 1 Dr just wasnt convinced, It soon became apparent the drugs I was put on in 2001 for mild depression (Aka – relationship breakdown) had deteriorated me mentally and physically .(understatement)

        It took a further 2.5 years to come off of the offending drugs (the withdrawal was brutal – understatement)

        If anything kills the mentally ill / or in my case, causes mental illness? its the drugs they are on day in day out over years and years. It has been proven these drugs do not balance chemicals effectively like pharma claims and, in fact do the opposite all the while introducing further side affects (aka – adverse reactions). It is also proven these drugs are dependents and extremely hard to reduce as the symptomatic stress to the brain and body is excruciating.

        Pharma is a business – business needs customers, repeat customers… A patient cured is a customer lost – Nuff Said

        • @Elohimette a very good but mentally unwell friend hung herself in hospital..because she was accused of Benefit fraud she was scared of going to prison…she had not committed any crime..

          Thats why all this hatred against disabled and claimants sickens me..


      The current system of assessing disabled claimants is killing them.

  55. PMQs at the moment – Cameron and Miliband going head to head about the ‘crisis’ in Syria – whilst completely ignoring the REAL CRISis IN THE UK – disabled people dying in their thousands as a result of tory party benefit changes and bedroom tax – they both are cunts

    • How many hundreds of millions of £`s have they sent in aid-to this civil war, taking sides- and its not really aid at all — all its doing is fueling a war — They don’t bat an eye at sending money and people to war. And all under the guise of humanitarianism?

      • Well,l it makes them look good on the world stage, & don’t doubt for one minute that Camoron will be invading Syria if the UN take the complaint from Liverpool council seriously.



  57. fuck ids fuck mc vile

    hi i need advice i just attended an appointment at my local nobcenter plus last week i was given a jsa direction to make an account on universal jobsmatch i did as they said but never used my normal email address i used a new one solely for that, i never put my real name or out on there either,my adviser as filed off a SANCTION to a decision maker for failing to carry out the direction is this a joke or what!!!! and what are my chances of appealing it ?? sick of it all come from there shaking heart racing would up. she terminated the interview and said we will be in touch because i kep raising my voice about it being sanction city!!! fucking sick of the bullshit they aint there to find you work the inept twats

  58. Landless Peasant


  59. A load of bollocks?? ( caution – link to an interview with Fester…)

  60. Landless Peasant

    Rachel Reeves read backwards is Seveer Lechar , which is a Spanish Latin American verb meaning ‘to whitewash’.

  61. He sounds more like a lone nutbag to me.

  62. No doubt a movement where they are parading about with flying balloons, blowing whistles and are under dressed.

  63. No, I am not interested in facebook or any of the comments on it or twitter.

    • @guy fawkes oh well nevernind as I am in touch with the police yet again today as its obvious this psychopath is intent to cause me misery by posting tthreats and harassment I’ve already contacted the police and they have visited me and still this psycho wants to harm me and cause me grief ..I don’t know what the fuck to do anymore it feels like a campaign against me now…I keep wondering why ..

  64. universal phishing

    can anybody tell me if i am required to supply a phone number, be it a mobile or land line in order to claim JSA

  65. overburdenddonkey

    g fawkes

  66. I have never seen so many charity adverts on tv. Redcross, children in need etc. The children in need ones are to rescue a child from early marriage and put her into school, in other words save her from slavery to become a slave for the capitalist when they move ilnto their country.
    It is their parents that need to be educated and the dictators running the country sent into exile, more than funds for schooling.

    • @guy fawkes on another site the admin edits out the name of MP if you mention them so as not to offend the MP…..I don’t know what they will think of this website

  67. DWP Releases Benefit Rates For 2014/15.

    JSA/ESA will increase to £72.40p per week for the over 25′s.

    Everything can be found at the following link:

    • @obi guy etc remember when we were in dispute with those landlords ? I remember going on their forums and reading how one of them went to a tory conference where mastercard was there bragging how they had the tech already on how to control claimant spending and they were ready and setup to put it into action …so imagine my surprise at getting MasterCard wanting to ” connect ” with me on some site…its all getting weirder by the minute .

      • The thinktank demos who pproposed the smartcard system was funded by MasterCard ..
        MasterCard was at Tory conference touting for business …

      • I just got a letter telling me I am pre-qualified to apply for a cashplus Mastercard(R) with a credit limit of 2000. Is that what everybody else is getting thru the letter box? £2K my arse. If it was 200k I would take the money and run.

        • @pat a to I would tell them to shove it..nothing sickens me more than business profiting from people poverty misery and fucking destitution ..the fact that these cnuts were at Tory conference doing business with those fuckers tells you everything you need to know about the DWP and this stinking govt..

          • They want £3.50 a week interest,they can shove it.
            I got a bag of sand stashed with nationwide, .
            nice people btw.for bankers..

        • something survived...

          It’s a scam. You might as well give your house to the ‘prince of Nigeria’ as a deposit while waiting for the cheque for $50m that is of course ‘in the post’.

          • Ah, I see you are not versed in those scams. The cheque DOES actually arrive, and it primarily clears because it is international, and the account holder (usually a foreign gubbermint) doesnt know the cheque has been ‘appropriated’,or even printed in some cases-it could be a fake too.. When the fraud comes to light the cheque is reported as fraudulent and the money disappears from your account leaving you in dire straits and dept.
            Dont get caught out with that one.

      • Mind you, it doesnt say I would get it, only I have been chosen to apply.

        • Trust me they would give you it with no checks done, their all in it to make money. The best thing you could do is next time you get one of those letters is to set fire to it, cause if you throw it away intact someone else could fill it in with your name on it.

          Then BANG, you’re in debt.

  68. Labour you have lost a few votes now ,,fucking class traitors,,,

  69. I don’t like the sound of Racheal Reeves and this new neo liberal labour bollox. Would’nt trust her as far as could throw her. Nasty little minx. What a load of bollox. Trying to pretend folk are getting a better deal on workfare. Rubbish. Racheal Reeves is a sheep in wolfs clothing.

  70. I’m voting TUSC even if it means my vote is utterly wasted.

    • A ‘WASTED VOTE’ is an oxymoron. It is an expression started by the big parties to stop you voting independent/small party. Even if who you vote for doesnt get in, the number of votes they got will be noticed.Your opinion will be seen.

  71. Pat ato

    You should take the gun and turn it on them!

  72. Pat ato

    If you think it would be effective then that is your prerogative.

  73. something survived...

    The 20 or so years I’ve been a jobseeker (can’t believe there are only 5,000 people in the UK unemployed 5 or more years! that stat is definitely wrong!), I’ve been sent on endless schemes, each more ridiculous than the last. All schemes offering forced paid jobs, during this time, from the jobcentre and other providers, have been for exactly the shitty/rubbish jobs we’ve been talking about. When I was 16 I couldn’t even get dole because I was 2 years underage, and my mum’s Child Benefit got permanently stopped because I got a job (my best ever job), even though I then got sacked over a third party’s fake allegation. I was not allowed council tax benefit or housing benefit or any disability related benefit, and in fact was told there was no benefit for me at all! I was homeless for a while…

    Of course at 16 you can get Motability but I never knew that. They would not have said I qualified (though technically restricted growth people ARE one of the entitled groups), and if I had known about it and the people had bothered to apply their own rules.. (Not that I could have space, money, time, energy or permission to run a car) My seizures started when I was 9 so I was already banned for life from driving. There were no bus passes and I had to use all my tiny pocket money for the bus to school, college, work. I used a child fare till I reached the age limit. However as fares went up and pocket money stopped, I had to walk everywhere because I had no income to cover bus fares. I walked miles every day in all weathers, which did no good for my joints/back or CFS/ME. I was always tired (still am) and because I was poor and tired and sick and always hungry, often got kicked off things.

    After age 18 things were just crazy in the job world. At one point I was registered with 50 employment agencies. Hardly any of them ever found me a job, and of those that did, they were mostly shit jobs that were all temping. Of those that didn’t finish because they were temp jobs, I got sacked from all, for a long list of stupid reasons. A lot were physically unsuitable, like working in a -25 degrees centigrade deepfreeze (the walk-in type), with no warm clothing or PPE, and them knowing I’m tiny with bad circulation and no body fat. I think the agency wanted me to go back and I refused. Years later, most of the half-dozen agencies I was registered with dumped me after failing to find me a job, and changed their rules to stop me getting back in. In around 2012 I had applied for 7000 jobs and then on principle I stopped counting. The one agency regionally here to find me a job, lied to the employer that I was ablebodied and of normal height. It was as a gardener/landscaper, which I used to do self-employed and then as a volunteer. I turned up for work and before signing anything or saying hello, they said they thought it was a joke. They said they would not be employing me because nobody had told them I was very short and disabled. They told me to go away. The agency then blamed me. Jobs I found by myself, also didn’t tend to last long. At some point the computers for tax and pensions deleted my entire work and NI contributions record, and so according to them I’ve not worked in my life! They cancelled my state pension and also my potential chance for a state pension or the Minimum Income Guarantee. When I went to the tax office to try and fix it, they threw me out. When I’d run a business I’d been underage but actually paid tax I was not obliged to pay. Even that was wiped off the records. Several times in the last few years, they have said I’ve had a paid job on benefits, but never told me either who said that to them, or what job I’m supposed to have done. They’ve tried to take all my benefits (100% of it, and already all spent on staying alive) each year as tax and fines, which is a joke. In fact I have a business now, but it is a not for profit so it has no tax and does not make money. I’ve showed my bank statements to the tax office as proof I only get income from JSA and HB. The benefits people at DWP falsified evidence and told the tax office that I had worked in a single paid job fulltime for a year while not claiming benefits. This contradicted the simultaneous evidence that I was always claiming and in receipt of benefits. They could not say what the job was! Or where I was paid it; or how if I did it I was elsewhere during the working week doing jobsearch, or why I was still broke and starving and sick all the time. So they falsified a whole fictional year of paid work (while submitting the data that I had been on benefits!), and it wiped out a whole later year of NI. To get it back I had to pay £4,000 to the Inland Revenue. I could not afford to pay them £4 or £40! So that year being scratched out, meant I am permanently barred from all state pensions, as the deadline to pay the 4G has long gone. Another false thing they said, was that I was living abroad (they refused to say where) for a year. (I proved I wasn’t, but the IR ignored my evidence at my appeal. They preferred to believe the DWP.) I said I had had permitted and prearranged trips abroad, but the longer of the 2 in question was under 2 weeks and so should not have been subject to either a sanction or to the loss of JSA, or to disqualification from NI and a pension. Some of my foreign activity did constitute work, but I was not paid for any of it and I paid to go there. Meanwhile, the council refused to ever give council tax exemptions or discounts because I’m disabled, though its own rules say they must do so. A couple of years ago was the deadline to work 30-40+
    hours a week 7 days a week till age 70 with no break, in a fulltime job, for ‘requirement of number of years of work’, or get no pension and no mimimum income guarantee. Academic, as I couldn’t get any kind of job at all. You can only get JSA till you are 65 and then what the fuck will I do? As I can’t get a pension.

    As for tests: They want us to do stupid tests, assuming we are all thick. The people who write the job descriptions on Jobpoints and UJM are not very literate. I offered in the past to proofread the ads for JCP for jobpoints (and before, when they used cards on boards – a system I much preferred, as you could see they were real local jobs). Both times I was turned down, and their spelling only got worse. In fact some of the thickest people I have encountered, have been employed in jobcentres and work schemes. They are so thick, they make pigshit resemble shampoo. Should I want to, which I don’t, I could do their ‘job’ in my sleep. (True, not a boast) One interview, a job sorting patient files at the hospital, had only two candidates. I had to alphabetise a stack of files as a practical test. I did it perfectly in 15 seconds flat. I was criticised for: ‘punctuality and efficiency as there will be nothing else to do the rest of the time.’ And for being too intelligent. They gave the job to the only other candidate, a 7ft man with severe learning disabilities, illiterate and unable to speak, and with very impaired sight. He also had behavioural problems and no personal hygiene, and dual incontinence all the time. (Not a dig at him, just a report of the basic facts) We even got on at the assessment, so I’m not having a go at him or blaming him! He had turned up in a proper suit and I’d got together the smartest clothes I could find, which was not a proper suit. During our group interviews he was doubly incontinent. He was unable to do the sorting task even slightly, or to answer any questions or fill in any forms. At the end they said they were hiring him, though he had failed every single activity other than managing to turn up. I shook his hand and did not see him again for a while. What happened next: The papers reported the patient records service at the hospital had suddenly collapsed, with records being missing or in the wrong places. You could say it was a coincidence, but on this occasion they could not, as they had advertised a single post for that section, to take over what had formerly been several people’s jobs. They tried to fire the man, but were worried about the DDA. Then they did cuts and made him redundant instead. I saw him again the other week… All that department’s jobs have since been replaced by a computer, which does not require paying, and which somehow manages to be even more incompetent than the man they replaced!

    I’ve paid with my dole to educate myself, and adding up all my diplomas and certificates, I’ve just calculated that (on credits alone) I have the equivalent of a little over 6 honours degrees. (Again just a statement of fact, and only mentioned here as a response to shows like ‘Benefits Street’ and the perception that everyone poor is unqualified and unskilled, etc.)

    Work Programme 2011-infinity, to bring us up to date, wanted me to take numeracy and literacy tests. I refused at first until I was forced to take them anyway. I didn’t make much of an effort and did them while sick, knackered, and half-asleep. I scored 100% on both. I was then reported to JCP for a sanction or sanction doubt, for having the temerity to score 100%. I asked the JCP why, and they made it downgraded to a sanction doubt. JCP said I was supposed to perform ‘within parameters’. (!) Then Work Programme (Working Stinks), said they would not be paid, because you must make an improvement on your later test scores, as proof they are ‘teaching’ and ‘improving’ you. Or they don’t get paid. I was *happy* for them not to get paid, as my intellectual abilities came with me in my head when I walked in the door, and were nothing to do with them whatsoever. I ended up teaching THEM stuff! The people hired to ‘train’ us, not that there was any actual training, were morons of the highest order. The best way to describe them? Well, watch ‘Alien 3’.
    The prison officer Aaron, left alive and takes charge after the Aliens kill his boss, on the prison planet Fury/Fiorina, is called 85. Later (Ellen) Ripley asks why he has the nickname. A prisoner says they broke into staff personnel files one day; “it’s his IQ”. Although he is a much nicer person, that being the difference! (nicer than the numpties at Work Programme).

  74. Pingback: Winning The Argument On Welfare Means Never Giving An Inch To The Likes Of Katie Hopkins | the void

  75. Reblogged this on defytheeconomy.

  76. Pingback: #NoVoteNoVoice? No thanks. | Cautiously pessimistic

Leave a Reply

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s