Shocking 50% Rise In Assaults on DWP Staff In Just One Year

dwp-incidentsThe number of recorded assaults on DWP staff soared by almost 50% between 2011/12 and 2012/13 a Health and Safety review has revealed this week.

672 staff members were physically assaulted in 2012/13 compared to 465 in 2011/12.  The number of recorded instances of verbal abuse or threats rose by over 50% reaching 35161 whilst the number of ‘other’ incidents – which can include damage to property or fights breaking out which do not involve staff – has doubled and now stands at 6399.

The DWP claim changes to the way some incidents are reported has contributed to this huge rise in staff facing assault or abuse, however it is likely that changes to social security are also a major factors.

Jobcentre staff can now stop or sanction benefits seemingly on a whim with unofficial targets set by bosses to end as many claims as possible.  Claimants who face sanctions are placed under unbearable financial pressure.  A recent report from Citizens Advice described horrific tales of dietary needs going unmet, attempted suicides and people forced to beg due to sanctions.  Homelessness charities have reported that sanctions are causing some people to lose their homes.

With claimants under pressure like never before to endlessly look for jobs which aren’t there – or facing sanctions for the most ludicrous reasons – it is unsurprising that tensions are running high in Jobcentres.

Alongside this, Jobcentres are now working with a very different group of claimants to previous years.  Many people stripped of sickness benefits do to being assessed as ‘fit for work’ are now forced to sign on in Jobcentres.  Some of this group will include people who display what social workers call ‘challenging behavior’ whether due to substance misuse or other factors.  Long term unemployed people, who in a very small number of cases may have extensive criminal pasts or a history of anti-social behavior, are now being singled out for special harassment in Jobcentres.  An evaluation of a recent workfare scheme warned that welfare-to-work companies were unable to find unpaid work placements for some people due to a ‘risk to placement providers’.

Jobcentre staff are poorly trained to deal with people who may be chaotic or violent, yet they now have more power over people’s lives than social workers, probation offices and other social care professionals.  These workers, who have comprehensive risk assessment strategies and information sharing procedures, earn considerably more than the salary of an average Jobcentre worker.

With ‘conditionality’ for benefits set to increase even further over the coming years, the risk to DWP staff is only likely to get worse for those on the front line of Iain Duncan Smith’s welfare reforms.

The report can be read at: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/253522/dwp-hsw-annual-report-2012-13.pdf

Sign the petition to abolish all benefit sanctions without exceptions and join the upcoming Week of Action Against Workfare.

Please keep comments on this post sensible.

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234 responses to “Shocking 50% Rise In Assaults on DWP Staff In Just One Year

  1. Maybe it’s time the Job-Centre staff took their idiot bosses to court before they too end up in the same queue that they are told to sanction?

    • I have little sympathy, these advisers are happy to do this work knowing what they are doing without a second thought… rather like the person who logged in all the prisoner numbers at the death camps during WW2 thinking they are less guilty as those who gassed the people and threw their bodies into a mass hole or oven. An extreme example I agree but in it’s own way it just proves if they are part of the machine they are just as guilty for earning a wage out of other peoples mental and physical pain and not to mention in some cases death too. The only sympathy I have for them is to call it an occupational hazard should they experience verbal and/or physical violence, they know what they do and they are happy to do it, I could not do it for all the money in the world.. that is once the JCP ceased to be solely a place people went to seek employment and obtain advice on career options and so forth… they are happy to continue and do this work and look themselves in the mirror each morning under the illusion they are just a humble JCP adviser… No! No! and No!… they are just as bad no matter how kind some may appear… if they sit there and do that job they are as guilty.

      • I don’t have any sympathy with them either,anyone who sets out under the term “hit squad” spells out their intention. front line desk staff are rude arrogant and contemptible to people, they have no knowledge of health conditions and speak with authority putting their foot in it.

        all this is about undermining the welfare state,the intention is purely sanction. what you will hear is about the assault,what you wont hear is the events that lead up to it.people on benefits are at breaking point,they have been hauled before the courts’ for council tax,had a “spare bedroom subsidy” levied against them and are forced to go without daily.

        you cannot expect the poor to pay for the rich and the corrupt greedy system.

      • But they did not actually do the herding into the gas chambers or throw bodies into mass holes; that would have involved real work –. For the most part they forced others to do this.
        So we can be sure that when / if there’s some real hard dirty work to be done they will force the unemployed to do this for them. The unemployed seem to be the new Jews .

        • Arbeit Macht Frei

          Exactly, if and when the time comes, it will be those on Mandatory Work Activity who will be ordered to throw the bodies into the mass graves and carry out the executions whilst the smug pen-pushers in the JCP/DWP/Work Programme offices keep their work-less hands clean.

        • It’s ironic there are probably more Jews in the tory party than some might consider reality. So race seems not to matter.. nor does history.

      • I can imagine there wasn’t much problem recruiting Auschwitz and Belson guards. Until the end of the war and they scampered off to hide and pretend they hated their conscripted jobs.

        Human nature is the problem, and until those that dish out the shit fall face down in a cow-pat and smell the stench, it will never end.

        As politicians are just the play-things of the billionaires, then power will always be with them until the people have had enough, and see the light. Even then, many will be tortured, shot and die for future generations that will forget it all, once again.

    • DWP workers have access to one of the better left unions in PCS. They could organise and do almost anything to subvert the government’s agenda at the point of delivery and take wild-cat strikes to defend these actions against management reprisals – but they don’t. Instead they play along with management’s implementation of quotas and the government’s attacks on the unemployed. And none of this compliance will save them when the next round of cuts and redundancies is implemented.

    • How?

      These people are already afraid of losing their own jobs. While there are certainly some cunts who work in JC’s, there are also some who are just as hacked off with this government as we are.

      All i see in these threads is more divide and rule.

      • Fuck the cunty jobcentre

        What ‘divide and rule’ , ghosty? Or are you expecting us to hold hands with on the picket lines and have pitch battles with the cops to protect the pay, conditions, working practices and pensions of the very same CUNTS who are sanctioning us into destitution? FUCK THESE SANCTIONING BASTARD CUNTS – THEY ARE FUCKING SCUM!!

      • I agree with you. The divide and rule aspect is just exactly the effect the government is aiming for. It’d be great if the PCS union did take wildcat industrial action, but wildcat strikes are technically illegal and no mainstream union would dare to be seen as responsible for organising them. As we already know, Mark Serwotka, the so called radical left-winger has already vetoed two motions that would have seen the PCS as being at least somewhat supportive of the unemployed and other benefit claimants, but all that has been achieved is that they have agreed that they won’t sanction other PCS members who work for the DWP part time and as such are subject to Universal Credit. This is pretty despicable behaviour, but pretty much par for the mainstream unions.

        Hopefully as time moves on more and more workers will begin to see the benefits of being in a radical, grass roots union like the Industrial Workers of the World, who also welcome the unemployed, bringing together workers of all kinds – something the PCS, or any other union for that matter, doesn’t achieve.

        We don’t have to like those DWP workers who at the moment are remaining silent and inactive about what they are being pressurised to do, but I do think we need to start to reach out to them and applaud if and when they do ‘break ranks’ and take a stand, and also to support them in taking that stand. Maybe if there was more of a recognition amongst people like ourselves about the need for solidarity more DWP workers would be prepared to take the actions that many here have proposed – with our ready and public support that might just happen, however if all that can be suggested is a virtual lynch mob then those workers with even a half-decent conscience will remain silent and inactive.

  2. hardly surprising, when people lose everything they tend to lose it.

    • “when people lose everything they tend to lose it” – I couldn’t have put it better myself! I predict by this time next year they’ll be blood on the Jobcentre floor, literally.

      • something survived...

        if they HAVE blood….

        • I used to hate going into the jobcentre and seeing these doormen, I mean what the fuck. That was the first sign things were not alright. Then you got to sit and talk to some self-righteous condescending prick who sits tapping on a keyboard waiting for you to say something wrong. This is where the numbers are tattooed on your arm.

  3. If you play with fire… expect to get burnt…🙂

  4. “Customer care officers” RFLMAO if it walks like a G4S security guard, talks like a G4S security guard, then it is a G4S security guard!

    • One G4S security guard at our local JCP is that obese, his blubber hangs well over his belt and he has to waddle rather than walk – a truly disgusting sight.

      • Jobcentre Plus Manager

        Let me assure you readers that jobcentre plus does not employ any G4S (or otherwise) security guards at any of our facilities. What I assume you are mistakenly referring to is a Customer Care Officer. Thank you for allowing me to comment.

        • Ahem, what are the G4S staff at the Kings Lynn office then?
          You are fooling no-one but yourself.
          Question is who are the “customers” that are cared for… If trouble does happen who grapples with the assailent?

        • Sarah Sarahssen

          Customer Care Officers, straight from the Ministry of Love no doubt… doubleplusgood!

          • something survived...

            I’ve just spoken to one today (yes THAT one). His badge says only G4S. His ID card says G4S. G4S is on his uniform. And therefore his immediate employer is G4S. The closest he has ever come to ‘customer service’ appears to be as a bouncer. Officer, yes I’ll agree with that one.
            (if you mean the type of police officer who is secretly, or openly, in the EDL, BNP, NF, Combat 18. The type in the 70s/80s who got off on kicking anyone black or brown.)
            Care. Well that is about as far from the actual description of him as you can get. He doesn’t like foreigners, women, immigrants, disabled people, gays, black or Asian people. And he hates jobseekers, and if they are in one or more of the above groups he hates them even more. He acts like he hates his work, and is always in a vile mood with everybody – so that probably means he actually loves his work. If a black lesbian in a wheelchair came in he would be simultaneously furious and turned-on (by his hate working him up).

            I had to speak to him because I wasn’t allowed to speak to any of the proper Jobcentre staff! I asked stuff, and said my housing benefit award letter is still wrong – so, can I please NOT be sanctioned for leaving my city, to take a half-hour bus each way, to the town where you have to go to see the HB people in person? His assurances were not very believable, I’ve had my benefits stopped for this ‘offence’ before. Of course (not being a proper member of jobcentre staff) as he has no authority to decide either way, I’m back to square one and can’t go there without the right permissions. I’m supposed to record stuff like that in my job log, but if I don’t record it I’m in trouble, if I record it and they say I had no permission to leave, they’ll sanction me.
            The same pig (I know, that is offensive to actual pigs) has a long track record of reporting people to his jobcentre colleagues (including people he saw in the ‘wrong’ town while he’s offduty) and getting them sanctioned for the same offence. I’ve been done for going to other towns to try and find shoes (nothing fits!) when my shoes are falling apart.

            In our jobcentre, lots of people have had their benefits stopped for crazy reasons. A lot of local jobcentres were closed down over the last 20 years, and the people were sent to this one. They, and people in more remote and rural areas, have to pay themselves out of their dole to travel to sign on, there are no buses in the most remote parts (or there used to be, but guess what, they’ve been cut or stopped). It is about a tenner a day for a bus pass now. Now, you might think a long bus ride would entitle you to spend some time in my city when not actually signing on and jobseeking. Maybe do some shopping or windowshopping. Go to a cafe or sport, college course, etc. Well no. You are supposed to (without going to the toilet) get straight on the next bus back home. So, you manage to mostly stick to that crazy rule. But let’s say you sign on here, your work programme is in the next town, and they send you to a work placement/workfare in a third location. These people never check eachothers’ diaries, and appointments can be made at clashing times or when you have no way of getting to both/all in time.

            Let’s say you also live at a fourth location. You fork out for a barely-there bus and take ages coming in to sign on. You need to go there (city) to get the connecting bus to your work programme. And on the days of workfare you have to go there either from your home or the work programme, via several buses. Now, not only can you be sanctioned for missing signing to attend work programme or workfare, or for missing work programme or workfare in order to sign on; you can be ‘spotted’ or found to have been in the ‘wrong’ place (even if travelling between these locations at the time). And for going to get work clothes for your placement. And for sorting out bank/benefits stuff and bills and housework. If you need the launderette, how many are open at night when your workfare ends?

            Divs!!!!! And that’s being charitable to them.

            Department of Works and Pensions.
            Because we mislaid the office braincell.

            • One of me mates got pulled in cos according to what they told the jc they don’t have a driving licence but one of the staff saw them driving a car lol🙂 So be careful you don’t get seen doing something you are not supposed to be doing or supposedly can’t do lol

            • What business is it of JCP staff or their G4S meatheads where someone is? Is it now a crime if you’re claiming JSA to be in the “wrong” place? What if someone has relatives or friends in that “wrong” place, are they not supposed to visit them?
              What if like me, a claimant hates where they live & take every opportunity to get away even just for a day which is what my daughter & I do when her DLA is paid. How long will it be before ALL claimants regardless of benefit have restrictions placed on them?
              Seems the DWP are attempting to take away everything it means to be human, even free will & turn us all into soulless automotons.
              Fuck them, it’s our lives, we should all do what WE want, not what the DWP wants, it’s not The Matrix – yet.

            • G$S Electronic Tagging Services

              They will be wanting jobseekers to be tagged soon, the rationale being that if workers have to remain in their place of work why shouldn’t jobseekers remain at home/jobcentre/provider/disused aircraft hanger out in the middle of nowhere.

        • Ditto Huntingdon JobCentre Plus. Securitas guard permanently on duty.

  5. I’m suggesting some violence is caused by security staff. 3 years ago I called into jobcentre for a form for someone. I was held prisoner with others in a glass building when alarm went off, assaulted by being pushed and I saw manager being punched in the back. I complained in writing and controller of the heaviest stood alongside me grinding his teeth. Being a lawyer I told them I wanted a cctv image copy because those cameras are to protect everyone including the public. They refused unless I issued proceedings. Disgusting experience dealt with through mp remember..those loading the furnaces just had to close the door after themselves. Best wishes to all abused accused and assaulted who are there on legitimate business

    • something survived...

      I was in a jobcentre signing on when a yob came in and verbally abused and physically assaulted me. The three burly security guards on duty that day stood and watched as if I were a mildly interesting new variety of tea biscuit. Staff never, ever apologised. They said ‘he [thug] has to sign on here too so there is nothing we can do’.

  6. Forgive me if I’m not shocked. But I am surprised worse hasn’t already happened.

    • Just a matter of time. Nazi’s in modern dress. Had a bomb gone off I’ve no doubt all 50 held captive would have died. They were like coked out maniacs. I was going to phone the police asking for assistance but was afraid of setting a bomb off. Top floors were trying to evacuate a building grossly overcrowded…it took 21 mins to empty 6 floors which would have collapsed onto us in an explosion. I actually felt sorry for staff who too were assaulted and abused by these jumped up creeps. Wear a big hat to hide your pointed shaven head….bad times ahead.

  7. Old Japanese Saying: “Live by the sword, die by the sword.”

  8. Not the least bit surprised. We have a prize called Neil in our jobcentre who’s probably not LIVED as many years as I’ve worked yet talks down to everyone. He also stated I was aggressive to him in a phonecall which was a blatant lie. If he spoke to me like he does in the street I’d stick one on him.

    • Yes, I’m afraid they think its an underclass of criminals they are guarding. Comes to something when jc staff aren’t safe from them either…heaven help oaps going in for a form, and many won’t have online gear…its enough to finish them off.

      • something survived...

        A man was signing on a couple of years ago, and admitted he has (when asked about some trifling mistakes in his jobseeker form, and about his inability to remember days of the week) severe clinical depression. They called over the gorilla-like security guard to stand behind him, said he was dangerous and was therefore now on a warning for threatening staff. He had said nothing of the sort. They sanctioned him and had the guard eject him!
        I bet that did wonders for his mental health.

        (If you were HAPPY about jobcentres, THEN you are pathological)

  9. If people can’t find work that isn’t there the solution is obviously to have more schemes and make theses schemes progressively laborious and punishing.
    People coming off the work programme after two years; only to be put on another useless scheme — I wonder what the assaults will be on the people running theses useless cash cow schemes ? after people reach the end of their tolerance with these parasites.

  10. Hardly surprising statistics, I have often thought how I would react to a sanction, I just don’t know! I think if a person is so destitute they could resort to anything for revenge.

    • An unemployed person goes into a jobcentre with very little dignity, they come out broken!

      • something survived...

        Well if it’s good enough for Cameron…
        Yesterday I found myself writing in my head, a new tourism campaign. ‘Welcome to Broken Britain’. Here is the bus you can’t take because it’s been cancelled. Here is the closed-down playgroup, so mothers have nowhere to leave their kids while the government demands they go on workfare. Here is a school with an interesting open-plan roof and in-school rain therapy, because David Cameron would rather buy bombs and bullets than tiles or textbooks. Here is a hospital that used to be NHS but is now private, so nobody poor can go there. Here is a shopping trolley in a river. Here is a war veteran with no legs begging under a bridge. Here is today’s austerity menu, suck on a soggy crisp.

        And we’d put Cameron’s image on all the ‘We love Broken Britain’ posters!

  11. im surprised there hasnt been more incidents, but one may suggest that a lot of incidents are not reported, due to fact it will make ids and the dwp look bad and draconian…unfortunatly what these gormless morons dont seem to get is, that the human being, has hardwired within thier dna.. the survival instinct….thats why we have been around for 200,000 years..
    on a side note the lady i spoke to the other day, when signing on, doesnt believe that the unemployed have been stigmatised as lazy scroungers, and kept banging on about the fact i wont allow them to see my uni jobmatch account, she said i might have to come in everyday day, i then asked why in the past 4 visits she has never asked to look at my little green jobsheet, and forced her to read them…luckilly for me one can get ones point across without raising my voice or using bad langauge..although one person did, and i told them to get a decibel meter to prove it,,,, they signed me on and let me go….

    • I never once raised my voice either when I was constantly sanctioned but surveyed every avenue open to get benefits reinstated from my MP to Liberty organisation which deal with civil rights after being arrested and thrown into a police cell for the day for refusing to move until they paid me back my benefits I did trick them though by asking questions the adviser could not answer and had to ask their superiors,while at another desk I signed for my benefit and walked out.

  12. When I had an encounter with some chavs near my house the instinct was to give them a good belting however restraint kicked in as I had the sense to realise they knew where I lived and waking up to say my house on fire was not worth the short-lived satisfaction. Jobcentre staff live in the community…somewhere, and I think if I were them I wouldn’t want the worry that some nutter (or driven to) found out their address. However much of a Jobsworth, the job simply cannot be worth it ruining your life. i of course wouldn’t condone that behaviour but I’m a realist. This is what can happen if people don’t think further than the nose in front of their face, like IDS and the Tories.

    • Now this is disturbing. Imagine being in say Asda queue and a shout goes up “that’s him/her as stopped my money for no reason”, next a full on violent attack results. Would there be any witnesses?. I’ll wager there’d be no problem releasing cctv footage then, especially if say the aggrieved was a martial artist and took out the pointed head goons in Asda too….I can see a violent society encroaching with citizens defending themselves quite legitimately.

      • Invasion of the Decision Makers

        Reminds me of ‘Invasion of the Body Snatchers’ that when we all start pointing at JC/DWP/ATOS/WP scum in supermarket queues…….. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  13. Which bit of math are you idiots who think the unemployed are just lazy scoungers not understanding?

    I don’t care how you work it but 2,500,000+ unemployed and 600,000 jobs does NOT mean everyone who is unemployed is lazy or a scrounger… it means THE GOVERNEMENT FUCKED UP BIG TIME AND ARE BLAMING THE PEOPLE THEY WORK FOR!

    Note i said GOVERNEMENT and not mentioned a particular party, this because they have all failed over the last three decades minimum to deal with EMPLOYMENT yet they spend a hell of a lot of money screwing the unemployed…. stop spending on these stupid little schemes to screw the unemployed, sick and disabled and there is your multi million pound bloody saving right there…it is costing more to persecute these poor sods than it would be to just pay them the NATIONAL INSURANCE THEY PAID FOR! AND yes a significant 1% of those are on the fiddle…ONE PERCENT!!! so that one percent is a good reason to crucify the other NINETY NINE PERCENT IS IT?

    Damned glad I never went to Eton if they teach that kind of math.

    Fix the LACK of jobs and you fix the the unemployment… having too few jobs to fill is a sign of lazy scrounging MP’s and primeministers not the poor buggers who want a living! I am ready to break the kneck of ANY MP right now be they conservative or labour because they do not have the where withall to face up to the fact that untill they fix the number of jobs available they will NEVER fix the unemployment problem and why is it that NONE are kicking off about this?… even labours own website fails to mention it!!

    Condem or labour or the other bunch of noclue parties are not addressing this therefore MORONS!!!!

    This whole demonise the unemployed, sick and disabled is a scheme to avoid anyone asking “where are the jobs?”… the jobs the Conservatives sold off and the ones that New Labour (read “we’re conservatives too now”) continued to destroy.

    ASK your MP’s what their party intends to do to fix the TRUE problem, FIX employment instead of screwing the unemployed THEY CREATED!

    • theyhaditcoming

      The disgusting thing is that the levels of unemployment Britain has seen since Thatcher are the result of deliberate neoliberal economic policy.
      http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.com/2013/09/equilibrium-unemployment.html

      Successive governments have regarded unemployment as a “price worth paying” (by the workers, not THEM) for driving down wages and working conditions.

    • Not to mention these shitty ‘Sector Based Work Academies’ which are gigantic CV rewriting courses that exist to brain wash the jobless into corporate anti-poor and borderline fascistic Tory ideology so that the government can continue to not create jobs and use their media chums for welfare propaganda.

  14. Another Fine Mess

    I’m shocked it’s only a 50% rise!

  15. Jobcentre staff better get used to the fact that any adviser could and probably will be attacked at some point.

    If advisers are going to leave people with no money through sanctions, the unemployed will start dishing out sanctions of their own, it’s enevitable – it will happen.

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  17. No sympathy for a lot of the twats who punish the poor for their own personal gratification

    • Indeed. The cunt adviser I have to see was smiling like a Cheshire cat whilst on the phone telling someone to expect a brown letter in the post. He truly is the most vile cunt I’ve ever had to deal with.

      • @Jobcentre staff are Cunts, these are the only words that springs to mind for your ‘Chesire Cat, courtesy of Linton Kwesi Johnson.
        ‘So me jook one in him eye and him started to cry.
        Me thump one in the mouth and him started to shout.
        Me kick one pon him shin an him started to spin.
        Me pump him pon him chin an him drop on a bin
        And crash,
        And dead.

        • Give credit where credit’s due: the poem is by LKJ, fine. But also tell people where it’s from. The poem is Sonny’s Lettah, from the album Forces of Victory, which is compulsory listening, people! As are all his other works…

  18. JCP staff are obviously under a great deal of pressure to follow the instructions of their managers who in turn have to follow instructions from the DWP,although I can sympathise with their plight,I have no sympathy with the glee they appear to have while issuing sanctions.

    • I know that some of them are unhappy about what they’re doing, while others are all too happy. You might say that the ‘good Germans’ among them (Godwin’s law indeed: if you don’t like it, ask why it keeps coming up in this context) can be regarded as conscripts of the DWP.

      But however sympathetic you might be towards conscripts, if they shoot at you, you’re well advised to shoot back, or you could end up just as dead as if they were volunteers.

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  20. I’d imagine the JCP workers who take the most pleasure in dishing out sanctions do so because they live in a different town and are unlikely to ever meet their victims in the street/down a dark alley (heh heh!). These are most probably those so-called “Hit Squads”. If they live in the town where they work, it’d be suicidal not to be nice to the people they sign on…

  21. http://socialistworker.co.uk/art/36746/Internal%20memos%20reveal%20fresh%20attacks%20on%20benefit%20claimants%20and%20job%20centre%20workers

    This attack on the sick will make it harder to appeal ESA and have more ill people forced to the job centre due to no money.

  22. I’m surprised a lot more have not been beaten up or worse. They don’t have bodyguards all the time after all. I couldn’t be a Job Centre worker-apart from not wanting to take people’s money away anyway, I’d be too scared of getting beaten or worse as I walked home.

  23. under 3 YEAR SANCTION.

    my local joke center as bars on every window outside but not on the inside, so it never stopped a sanctioned jobseeker launching a pc monitor at it causing it to smash one of the windows, they then had to close for the rest of the day. in order for it to be sorted out, that was 2 months ago, then only this week Tuesday it was shut again, with 2 tactical aid unit police vans outside!! i presume they pushed another sanctioned claimant to far!!

  24. Rosemarie Harris

    The Job centre staff are doing what they have to do as someone has already said the Government is to blame MP’s had to vote for this policy so what is needed is for us the unemployed to show these ‘Nasty ‘ people what we think. It’s no good attacking the J/C staff but the ‘nasty party ‘and friends are fair game. MP’s also live in community’s i do admit it’s usually the posh end.Find out the MP’s who voted for this policy and start from there! And remember don’t give to charity’s, who say i do it for the unemployed i still won’t give to charity’s who have ever used ‘slave labour’ they should have thought about it before rubbing their hands with glee! and finding out that we do have a choice who we give to after all rich people don’t give things away or money because they don’t know the value of anything as they have always been giving it!

  25. It staff can only blame themselves for using this awful sanction system. The area where I live they have taken great pride in doing it, when there are 60 people for every job it is plainly unjust and evil and all you get from them are Nuremberg answers no responsibility and blaming their bosses.

    • here, here Chris, I am more educated than my sister but would never take a job in the joke centre as she did, even if it meant more sanctions.

    • The ‘Nuremberg defence’ (“I vas vonly vollowing vorders.”) has been found to be invalid!

  26. Just think, if Universal Credit ever does happen (arf arf) we’ll see millions more part time workers being subject to the same conditionality as the unemployed.

    It’s going to get very messy indeed if IDS’ dream ever does become reality.

  27. These numbers are only going to rise the more these people victimize the poor and scapegoat them for the problems the Conservative/ Lib Dem coalition is making. Ive no sympathy at all for these people working in the DWP

  28. I predicted more violence towards staff.. Where is the PCS union in this..

    • The pcs union is too busy trying to push through motions which prevent its workers in a situation of having to sanction each other, and deciding how to handle the impending privatisation of the dwp, the latter being an ulterior motive of so-called “sweeping” changes to the system

  29. Yosserian Hughes

    And we’re meant to be surprised…..WHY?

    I said many many years ago – when they made the offices all ‘feng shui’ that it’d only take the circumstances we’re seein’ now to see an increase in assaults/threats to jobcentre staff.

    They’ve always been complete fuckin’ numbskulls & jobsworths so I’ve got no sympathy for them. …..Think easter eggs & £25 m&s vouchers……

    And Nuremburg defences……

    …..So, soon it’ll be back to the days of the caged booths. Then the jobcentre staff’ll cop for it outside their workplaces…….maybe from disgruntled ex-G4S employees forced to sign because of it.

  30. Reblogged this on Vox Political and commented:
    I notice that the amount of verbal abuse/threat is considerably higher than actual or attempted assault, and this gives me cause to think maybe JC staff are accusing people of threatening behaviour when they’re just reacting with horror/disbelief/astonishment at whatever the staffer has just told them. As in:
    JC staffer: “I’m sorry Mr Spoon, but you haven’t applied for any of the sex worker jobs on Universal Jobmatch so we’re sanctioning you for three years.”
    Spoon: “You bloody what?”
    JC staffer: “Hostile behaviour! Call security!”

  31. Presumably JC staff/managers have determined what constitutes abuse and assault. So it is their terms of reference and not anybody elses. This is highly subjective and probably can be taken with a pinch of salt – indeed, we all know about the 75% welfare benefit cheats don’t we???

    I remember a time when I called the council’s anti-social behaviour officer. I outlined problems I was having with a neighbour and several visitors he had. I got quite upset because it was causing me a lot of stress and upset. She said to me that she didn’t like the way I was talking. I thought – WHAT??? I was merely describing what was happening. She threatened to investigate me rather than do her fucking job and deal with neighbour nuisance. – don’t believe all of this because it’s all on their terms – these people are vile for carrying out fascist government policies

  32. never detested no one as much as i detest that biggest of all croungers IDS

    still waiting on that fucking bald nazi ugly smug bastard IDS being in front of whoever it is for his misuse of statistics, it’s been over 8 months!! what are the twitter #tags and will fuck all happen i doubt it this inept cunt appears to change laws challenging him on a whim!!! what the fuck as he got on that other smug silver spoon cunt PM, in order for him not to be sacked!! i can see civil wars me in the next 12 months , if this bollocks at his helm carries on!!

    • I think they are lining mc vey up to take his place, there is already a call for him to resign and he still has to come before parliament to account for his actions yet. I think they are trying to let him off the hook.

  33. was at the jc last week, over heard the conversation on the next table a bloke was being told he had a sanction, i could hear him crying , it was all very matter of fact , poor bastard,, i wonder why assaults on jc staff has gone up ,,,,

  34. Reblogged this on gingerblokeblog and commented:
    Yet another sign that people are being pushed to the very brink by this ConDem government and sadly, they are taking it out on the very staff employed to help them.

    • how can the staff be employed to help them when it is them that are sanctioning them, have you read the previous posts?

      • I hardly think that it is fair to blame the staff for doing their job, despite the unethical job that they are doing following DWP policy.

        • Er, so the people working at Aushwitz, should have continued doing their jobs, despite the unethical nature of gassing innocent people to death?

          • People working for the DWP may be unethical, but please do not trivialise their behaviour by comparing them to Auschwitz guards.

            Do you think that it is ok for employees to be attacked by the public when they are doing their job, really? The way that people are being treated by the DWP is awful but we have to remember who has set these policies up. It is not DWP staff that should be attacked but the government for setting such policies. Next time you are pissed with what the DWP are doing remember that it is IDS that you should be screaming at, not the public servants earning pittance to deal with the public.

            • The government could not carry out their tyrannical policies without willing and compliant civil servants.

              • You are correct and the fact that civil servants are being given free reign to make decisions without adequate training is a disgrace and smacks of poor government and governance.

                Regardless, I still stand by my point that whatever these civil servants do, there is no excuse for physical or verbal abuse.

                When a dog (civil servant) bites someone , do you blame the dog or the irresponsible owner (government) for allowing to be out of control?

            • Same goes for work programme/work programme providers, if nobody took the fucking jobs the whole shebang would come tumbling down like the sorry edifice that it is. It is the fucking TOOLS OF THE STATE who are prepared to lay their conscience (if they even have one) to one side for thirty pieces of silver and carry out the orders of the State that are the problem. They are EVIL, they know they are doing EVIL but they don’t give a shit so long as the salary comes rolling in. To quote Kill List: “They’re bad People. They should suffer.”… and they will!

            • JCP staff CHOSE to do their job, so if a couple of them get smacked about, well, they get no sympathy from me, after all the Nuremburg defence doesn’t wash.

              • JCP Staff are poorly paid in general.

                If anyone thinks that it is okay to abuse public sector staff then I do not know where we stand.

                I chose to work for the NHS, if I give you some bad news that you do not like is it okay for you to “smack me about”?

                If anyone is a nasty piece of work in their job, we the public need to complain via the correct measures. If nothing is done? We escalate our complaints to the top – government. If we still do not like the answer? We bring down government.

                I’ll be completely honest: I always thought it was only Tories who were nasty, selfish and ignorant.

            • overburdenddonkey

              gingerbloke
              the pay grade of jcp staff is not relevant to this issue or maybe it is, and in fact spite, fraudian, “kicking the dog”, to make themselves feel more powerful, it is civil servants that give dictators their power, a reaction to sanction abuse, is not abuse, but a reaction to abuse…do you think anger and rage is abuse? if you do you have much to learn about non-violence. quakers, a derogatory term now widely accepted by “friends”, is caused by being upset and shaking with rage…people on poverty income are manifoldly complexly ground down by it….shall i patronise you by citing examples of it?
              peoples emotional experiences of dwp/jcp are valid, people should not take abuse, but speak out against it, constraining rage voice causes frozen terrors.. i refer to stanford prison experiment, pavlovs dogs, since you draw to master dog relationship, but unfortunately not to instant bio-feedback, therefore emotional feedback, and stanley milgram, i wish you in your world of stiff upper lip, selfcontrol, they used to stamp LMF, on a ww2 pilots logbooks, if they cracked up, the foundation stone of any true civilization and socialism is human rights, sanctions are barbaric, illogical and irrational …

            • overburdenddonkey

              ps gingerbloke typo
              should read… “i wish you well in your stiff upper lip, pulled together and self controlled world, that fortunately many people reject…”

              • Some fair points made. I wouldn’t argue so much for a SUL, and have no problems with people being upset and having a little rant, that is completely understandable, yet physical violence and severe verbal abuse is indeed assault.

                I do agree that a regime is nothing without it’s henchman, but still believe that our issue is with the government head rather than it’s dogs.

                I certainly do not disagree with direct action. When the public have truly had enough and cannot put up with anymore, they will rise up against the regime.

            • @ gingerblokeblog… is leaving a human being in abject destitution not an assault on a person? Or does “I was only doing my job/following orders.” cover it? If you have never been in that position, and I would wager you haven’t, you don’t know how you would react, it is impossible to put yourself in someone else’s position until you have been there!

              • Firstly, I will tell you that you know as much about my history of childhood poverty as I know of yours.

                Secondly, I’m not coming at this from the point of view of a ex-working class Tory (if anybody dare call me that to my face).

                My point is, if you want to kill the snake, go straight for the head.

                What some DWP staff are doing is unethical and damn right immoral. I am not supporting their actions in any way, but neither will I support the actions of abuse against public sector staff. You wouldn’t believe how many arrogant and rude doctors, who think they know best when they truly do not, I come across on a daily basis in my work, but I would never be violent towards them, never.

            • overburdenddonkey

              gingerbloke
              but the tension and hostilities build up and are not release by little rants in the controlled manner you prescribe…people are on tenderhooks of precursor self control and trying desperately to get is right, and find a job..people understandably under severe pressure snap, this is well known and has been for many years, my father used to cite examples of this in the labour exchanges in liverpool, and as this is (the triggers), well known should be thoroughly considered by the jcp process, but alas it is “denied”, and their action is to threaten claimants with even more sanction punishment, and it is this causes even more frustration in the moment…so people snap, ie bite back, in dog speak, and are blamed for this understandable human emotion, this is how human beings react in the face of being powerless. jcp’s job is to empower people to find work, not to punish them for not finding work, as the work is simply not available…and they know it is not available…the carrot is work, but there are few carrots available..so stick is used, a club or magic wand?

            • “but please do not trivialise their behaviour by comparing them to Auschwitz guards”

              I seem to recall that some of the top Nazis got life imprisonment, some got taken to USA- if they were knowledgeable and others got help to get to South America – but think all of the Auschwitz guards caught got hung and collaborators were beaten to death by other inmates.
              I do not think this death camp analogy trivializes the DWP behaviour – just puts emphasis on a human weakness that is exemplified from this horrendous time in history; that people will do horrible things to others. But even some of the Auschwitz guards had to get drunk to do their duties , some were conscripted  and knew if they did not it was them in prison or the concentration camp too .
               
              This is how women guards were conscripted :

              “The women were seperated and brought before the inmates. The woman was then told to hit her [a prisoner]. Of the fifty women, only three asked the reason why they had to hit the inmate; only three asked the reason why, and only one refused, which caused her to be put in jail herself. The rest of them quickly got into the swing of things, which they had been warming up for their whole lives for.” 

              From: http://www.fold3.com/page/286092756_female_guards_in_nazi_concentration/

              Many of these women enjoyed their job, some didn`t and didn`t choose it .
              —-But we can say for certain that all the job centre staff choose to do the job —

            • overburdenddonkey

              gingerbloke
              the head of the snake, is the colluder’s of the scheme, it is all who collude in this barbaric scheme….the head cannot live without the some form of supportive physiology…the body, is us, the downtrodden, disenfranchised, and disempowered, in this oneway valve culture that we currently occupy, who provide the bulk of the energy of oppression or true civilization..we are the body of the snake…we elect the head…well that’s the theory…we have to choose what we want…woods for the trees, my friend….we cannot escape our need for our benefits…we are dependant on them..

              • Then stop the people who have made the policy to stop you receiving those benefits.

                If elections do not work, rise up. Forget about the small fry, when their power is gone they will have nothing to hide behind.

            • gingerblokeblog

              “Maybe they did or maybe it was just a job that they took.
              See my earlier answer and know the true enemy.”

              This is how I’ve come to believe it works; initially they are taken on for a temporary six month period, then after this time if they have not already left ( having taken the job form naivety) , are told they aren’t required anymore. The ones retained and given new contracts after the six month period are the sort required.

    • Does nobody write their own blog anymore – everyone seems to be re-blogging ‘the Void’ lol🙂

      • If it’s good enough to reblog, reblog it🙂

        • Gingerblokeblog, I never claimed it was right to smack any JCP advisor about, but it would be understandable if it was to happen. After all is leaving someone destitute often for the most spurious of reasons right?
          If someone is left with nothing, does it not come as a surprise that some might react in an extreme manner?

          • Of course it is a terrible for people to be left destitute. Upset about? Have a chat with Ian Duncan-Smith.

            • Think about it, gingerblokeblog, you are sat out in the rain and freezing cold on a damp park bench all alone with the last of your possessions you had managed to gather before the landlord kicked you out in a carrier bag and with not a penny in your pocket for a warm cup of tea and nowhere do go. Is that not extreme distress? Would you not feel even a tad angry towards the CUNT in the jobcentre who had put you in that position?

            • Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

              “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?… The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If…if…We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation…. We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

              – Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918-1956

              • Well you’ve finally brought me to your side…..go do as you please to the DWP workers and whom ever you like.

                But remember, when their families and loved ones come looking for you, you will be at their mercy. Gandhi said: “an eye for an eye will make everyone blind”

  35. I’m going to add 1 to the actual assault figure soon. Some trumped up arsehole power-tripping cunt jcp adviser seems to enjoy talking to jobseekers like shit. The cunt has really taken a dislike to me because I stand up to him. He even resorted the bring in help from his fellow jcp arseholes to try to bully me to agree to something. It took the pair of cunts 20 minutes tag teaming me to realise they wasn’t going to bully me to accept their lies and bow down to them. The cunts can get fucked.

  36. I do wonder about JCP staff. My experience may be atypical, but then I have indicated that I won’t just lie down and accept the usual bullshit. When attending my initial interview to go on Workfare I took along a letter withdrawing my consent for my personal information being shared with Third Parties. The interview was immediately stopped, and the advice of managers sought.

    As a result of this action, my ‘participation’ in Workfare was delayed by 10 months. I also ‘gained’ in a small way. I am a Welsh Speaker, and live in Cardiff, the capital of Wales, where, believe it or not, finding Welsh speaking staff to deal with us Welsh speakers seems to be amazingly hard – but I have a right to use Welsh in my day to day dealings with the state and it’s agencies. Since that point in 2012 I have seen a Welsh speaking advisor, (probably the only fluent Welsh speaking advisor in the building, who at least partially holds on to his job because of me!) whereas previously staff seemed to have extreme difficulty in locating a Welsh speaking member of staff.

    At that time I saw a different advisor every sign-on day, and whilst the majority seemed fine, I saw some who I’m convinced would sell their own grandparents for dog/cat food. This includes the really nasty woman who arbitrarily moved me from the group who declared part-time work, to a group subject to Workfare, all because I was waiting to see her. After sitting watching her sat at her desk doing nothing for fifteen minutes, I had the audacity to walk over and politely enquire if she was ready to see me, (some ten minutes previous to this another member of staff had asked me if I was being seen by anyone, and when I indicated that indeed I was due to, and who it was, this kindly member of staff rolled her eyes: I’m guessing the woman JCP worker I was to see was amongst the less popular members of staff, and something tells me that it’s related to her apparent laziness). When I finally got to see the advisor, she did inform me that she had moved me to a different claim group, she did not, as she was supposed to, inform me that she had put me in the Workfare group, probably against the rules, as at that time I had only been unemployed for ten and a half months. I can only guess that this act of spite on her behalf was because I had had the audacity to ask her, politely, if she was ready to see me.

    I am now on Workfare, but I did dig my heels in and insist that everything be done through the medium of Welsh, which caused some difficulty for JobFit Interserve, as they had not only to find a Welsh speaking member of staff, but also all their bumpf and paperwork in Welsh – and then I politely declined, (in Welsh) to sign anything, and would only show them copies of my (bilingual) CV, Welsh side up.

    Demanding services in Welsh isn’t me being awkward, (though some would disagree, as I speak English as well) but I am Welsh speaking, and demand all services from the state, whether that be the DWP or the local state in the shape of the local council in Welsh as matter of course. Ditto with court services and the police, though I did lapse a little recently during a medical emergency when I needed a paramedic and ambulance that resulted in a five day stay in hospital, but I guess that was an exceptional situation. However, I am aware that demanding services in Welsh causes bureaucratic chaos.

    I’m sure that some DWP staff, would love to sanction my arse for demanding stuff in Welsh alone, though sanctioning me for that would be amongst the milder punishments for that crime, (they prefer lynching!), but the Welsh speaking staff I see are always polite, and have stressed my right to use Welsh in my dealings with the state and it’s agencies, such as Workfare providers.

    I know that this kind of option is less open to people living in England or Scotland, but if you do speak one of the ‘minority community languages’ I guess you could always ham it up a bit and pretend that you don’t speak English so well, or that you ‘prefer’ to be dealt with in your mother tongue, (and if you speak that language at home, and spoke only that language before you started school you have a strong case to argue that). It might not work, but at the very least it would have to be sent to a manager for a decison, and that takes time, and therefore money, and crucially is probably risk-free, in terms of sanctionabilty – even the Daily Mail would have difficulty in arguing a case for that! For those of you from other EU countries, you could do the same.

    I appreciate that the above requires a certain amount of confidence, and that as an unemployed person you in all probability don’t feel the best about yourself right now – though I think you should remind yourself that it’s not your fault that there are just no jobs out there. But it’s also important to remember that this system needs to be opposed, and one of the most effective weapons we have is to make providing the service as expensive as possible without exposing ourselves to potential sanctions.

    I guess I must be extremely fortunate in the treatment I receive, as I read so often of the problems some people are having. Even if a few on here are being a little economic with the truth and they have done or said something that perhaps they shouldn’t have to their JCP advisor, (and no matter how true it may have been that the advisor is a prick, it’s perhaps not wise to say it out loud!), it still leave a huge number who are apparently being sanctioned for no reason.

    However, nothing deserves a sanction of benefits, as they are someone’s means of subsistence, and it’s therefore what I would consider a fundamental human rights abuse to deny someone something they need in order to survive. Even prisoners convicted of the most heinous crimes are not denied their basic needs for subsistence, so the question must be, why are the merely unemployed/the sick and the disabled facing destitution and starvation?

  37. If they started starving prisoners to death, first the human rights people would step in, second, unless said prisoners were very unpopular with their fellow prisoners, the prisoners would probably start rioting over the issue or taking guards hostage.

    • Exactly, and it would seem that the human rights aspect of the social situation in Britain is beginning to stimulate the interest of the UN… Many Europeans also wonder what the hell is going on here, and question why we still have Thatcherism, (only it’s on steroids now!), that we haven’t consigned it, like smallpox, to history.

      Perhaps we could use the analogy of the way prisoners are treated as part of our propaganda against the government?

      I don’t condone rioting, but when it does occur it’s hardly a surprise why.

  38. Pingback: Shocking 50% Rise In Assaults on DWP Staff In J...

  39. Very well put sobrydionmawr, although in my dealings with the dwp I can honestly say I never raised my voice, if anything it was them that got frustrated with me at the time, even our mp was screaming like a banshee because I dared to challenge labour’s policies of ‘new deal’ at the time, but he was the only one I retaliated to in kind.

    I wonder if they have cockney rhyming slang advisers for those born within bow bells?

  40. Landless Peasant

    So assaults have increased by 50%. I’m not surprised. If I had access to an RPG my local Jobcentre would be reduced to a pile of smouldering rubble by now.

  41. This is very interesting – anyone got a frequency scanner?

    UK Jobcentre Security Frequencies (G4S Securitas).

    http://ukradioscanning.com/viewtopic.php?t=188

    • Radio Scanners are not cheap, Obi, well out of the reach of JSA lol🙂 Interesting devices though, you used to be able to listen to the cops around about these frequencies, just below the old UK analogue TV range, before they went encrypted and started using the mobile phone network and Tetra. Also the cops used to have their ‘hotel’ base on 108 MHz on FM🙂 Not so easy now to listen in to da cops🙂

  42. David Cameron (not)

    Any decent human beings would have left Jobcentreplus by now rather than participate in the plans of this proto-Fascist government. Those who work there now do so because they are happy to persecute and destroy people, believing they are doing their duty. They are no different from the Nazi bureaucrats who killed millions while sitting at their desks. They put aside their humanity when they go to work. This attitude is described by Hannah Arendt in her book Eichmann in Jerusalem – A Report on the Banality of Evil. I will not condemn anyone who attacks this filthy, parasitic scum.

    • We all understand that the government is our enemy (or we should) and that’s easy to understand, but what is rather more difficult to understand is why our fellows, fellow citizens, our neighbours if you like would collaborate. I have nothing but contempt for them and also I might add contempt to anyone who defends and has sympathy for them – this idea that because they are further down in the chain they are some how less responsible is already a defence people are using . Even on this message board.

  43. Off topic, but now councils are threating to”inform children’s services” if someone is at risk of being evicted. Interestingly, there’s a report on Sky News today about making adoption easier, can’t help but join the dots… – http://samedifference1.com/2013/11/02/south-ayrshire-council-join-knowsley-housing-trust-in-bedroomtax-childrens-services-threats/

  44. overburdenddonkey

    off topic…on dla/pip…
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24784691

  45. i had mine told off 3 times buy his floor manager wanted me to walk to the jcp 10 miles away as i had no money left and had showed my bank acc details saying so soon got told buy the fm to back off

    and again for demanding a copy of my bank statement in paper, thats 15 quid from my bank as i use net banking so a photo was used taken on my phone in the end.

    and again for demanding a copy of my cv that i dont have nor got anything to put on it also say this on my action report pre wp

    • Should have been ‘three strikes and you’re out’ for the cunt
      Then they could sit around for three years with no money and see what it’s all about…
      (I don’t really wish three years of no money for anyone; just highlighting a point)

  46. when i seen him it was in a back room with 4 others so it was out of the way from the main office.

    hes working back in the main office now and the next adviser im with was the 1 that sent me to the wp in the first place 2 years ago so that should be fun🙂

  47. a few years back i went to my local JC due to major surgery i hadnt been in for a while,when i returned home i said to my then partner “youll nver believe this theres bouncers in the jobcentre now”,she is a social worker and replied “dont be silly,they must be supervisors” yeah just like pcso,s are police

    • I remember seeing the thugs as far back as ’09 in the Springburn, JC. What a bunch O C***TS. They were pushy , you could not just walk past them, then they wanted to see your appointment cards and all sorts of shit. But they were clearly security/Bouncers.

      • Red Hot Chilli Peppers

        Back in the ’80s Maggie Thatcher ordered that the DSS (as the were then, no fancy jobcentre pluses in those days lol🙂 ) be painted battle-ship grey because it has been found to be the most depressing colour, the kind of colour scheme you find in prison cells.

  48. I know it’s a bit off topic but this is the green parties policy on workfare, I suggest we vote for them or at least heavily consider it!

    ‘Writing Off Workfare: For a Green New Deal, not the Flexible New Deal’ is the Green Party’s response to the government’s ‘public consultation’ on welfare reform (which ends October 22). The Green Party proposes a non-means-tested Citizen’s Income that would free people to help disabled and elderly relatives, and to take odd jobs or voluntary work, which many unemployed people need to do without being punished for breaking JSA rules.

    It also makes a detailed critique of the government’s proposals based on recent academic research – much of which the government has ignored – and the actual experiences of people on benefits.

    The Welfare Reform Green Paper, ‘No One Written Off: Reforming Welfare to Reward Responsibility’ seems unduly influenced by large companies that see the privatisation of job centre services as big business. The consultation asks 29 questions, none of which are addressed to the impact of growing global recession and diminishing global resources upon employment.

    The Green Paper puts forward many new obligations for claimants – including working for nothing more than benefits – but hardly any incentives or new money for the unemployed. Instead it offers new business opportunities for private ‘providers’ of back-to-work services, some of whom will be big multinationals. It strips benefit claimants of what little bargaining power they have, both against these ‘providers’ and against employers offering unreasonable conditions.

    The ‘Green New Deal’ adopted by the Green Party at its Autumn Conference advocates a ‘green jobs’ programme. These would be real jobs at real wages, many created by local authorities, highlighting work which will help to avert climate change and extensive training in construction and engineering skills. The government has since seized upon the energy saving ideas of the Green New Deal but not its redistributive aspects – a windfall tax on oil and gas companies, and a rise in benefits for the poor.

    The Green Party opposes work-for-benefit schemes and the privatisation of back-to-work services, which would hand money to shareholders rather than help the unemployed. The government’s proposals would impose workfare with payment of £1.70 per hour on anyone who couldn’t find a job within two years. Many lone parents and people with health problems are in this position through no fault of theirs. The Green Party shows how they – and other future victims of the recession – would suffer under the government’s proposals for workfare and for tougher benefit rules.

    Anne Gray, co-author of the consultation response, said: “Workfare is collective punishment of the unemployed. What they need is real jobs and real training. Our plans would focus on giving unwaged people the money and the jobs they need, not on spending a fortune to enable big companies to make money out of policing the unemployed.”

    • I worked in a vet’s under Maggie Thatcher’s YTS (Youth Training Scheme) in the ’80s. I took home £70 a week (remember this is like over thirty years ago, this is because the employer was allowed to ‘top-up’ the YTS allowance (think it was £25, £35 or something, maybe more), something employers are NOT allowed to do (even if they wanted to) under present day schemes as the DWP rules explicit state this), a friend was doing YTS in a garage and was taking out £100 a week). Even the old ET (Employment Training Schemes) paid and Extra Tenner ffs. Back in 2013, and over thirty years later and we have a situation where fully grown adults are being expected to do a full weeks graft for equivalent or even less than teenagers were earning under Maggie Thatcher’s YTS ffs, and we thought that was ‘exploitation’ back then lol, we didn’t even know the meaning of the word!

    • A citizens income would make couples instantly better off than single people to run one household etc.and benefits largely the rich because to benefit the poor it would have to be pretty high.

    • I agree. If we have to take part in this sham democracy then the Green vote seems the closest to what most people on forums like this would advocate (I think).

      • problem is if we don’t vote against the condems the more likely it is that they will get in via votes from the gullible propaganda whore masses and pensioners who the condems go out of their way to make happy.

  49. overburdenddonkey

    some people may be interested in looking at this..an eu wide, unconditional basic income…
    http://basicincome2013.eu/

    • overburdenddonkey

      0.4m increase in people not receiving a living wage in the uk… http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/nov/03/people-below-living-wage-uk#start-of-comments

    • obd

      I do not believe a basic income should be universal anymore than I think our welfare state should be universal other than when in need, not in greed.

      • overburdenddonkey

        g fawkes
        off the top of my head, and for example, as i have not seen any implementation models, as yet…i think it is worth discussing as an option to what we have now…
        well, the tax system needs to be overhauled, in particular to tax avoidance,and evasion. it would be based on one’s tax code, a basic unconditional income tax free allowance for single people and couples…and save billions in admin…the CI could be tax eroded by a tax escalator, so that the CI is taxed pro-rata income increase ie the CI would form part of one’s taxable income..ie pension guaranteed credit is currently approx £ 145/wk single and £200/wk couples + hb, ct, and all other benefits one is entitled to on top of this amount..so there is an acceptance of duals rates for singles and couples…the crux of this scheme must be to avoid strings of state control, on those without any other means of income, because of unemployment, sickness and disability….

        • obd

          Those that are able and young enough to work would be able to earn on top of a basic income leaving those with only basics in the gutter as usual, like I said this would only benefit those that have wealth and a high income and would replace the withdrawn child benefit from the rich under this system (which they should not have been getting in the first place).
          You will never get the rich to pay their fair share of taxes, it would take an army of tax inspectors to chase hidden cache’s of wealth from one country to another, costing more in the long run.
          There is nothing wrong with the present system of national insurance if administered in the right way whereby it goes to all of those in poverty not in wealth and without exception or conditionality.
          A lot of the freelance and self employed have opted out of nic but now want a basic income on top of any work pension they may have provided for in their old age, leaving those who are into third generation unemployment through no fault of their own to languish on basic income.
          I do not agree with the welfare cuts that have been implemented, nor do I believe wealthy pensioners should get benefits and I certainly would not be for a universal anything on these grounds.

          • Spot on, guy! It is the conditionally attached to the receipt of benefits, barbaric sanctions, work-for-your-dole schemes and private sector involvement in the welfare state that have to go. That would make a good start!

          • overburdenddonkey

            g fawkes
            we the poor are being used as an inflation sink..and a sink for all ills, so our benefits are slashed and burned…the very heart of capitalism is clawing out of the gutter and/or treading on people to ensure one does not get one’s feet wet, and setting one’s self free through labour, by harnessing the labour of others…if CI was not administered with human rights and therefore social responsibly at it’s heart, all it would achieve is hyper-inflation and no one wants that, inflation is rampant enough now..CI is radical, there is not a cat in hells chance that capitalist govts will accept it…the same goes for getting our present NI based system back on track, it has been derailed…too few houses are being built, causing, rents and house prices to soar, esp in the south east of britain, etc, etc,…unemployment amongst the young is also soaring…i too agree that universal benefits as they stand atm should be scrapped..perhaps any amount over the 40hr/wk living wage should see a reduction in CI…a way should be found so that CI is not a universal benefit, but without the strings of state control….ending sanctions and conditionality now, is a must in any case..we have to find a permanent way of bringing unfettered capitalism under control…by building millions more homes, more worker coops, and a substantial increase in all baseline, social security benefits..ie unemployment benefits e and sa benefits and all benefits that enable sick and disabled people a decent quality of life…that can only be done if wealth is permanently redirected to eradicating poverty, another consequence of that would be an increase in wellbeing, much lower health care needs, and costs….i want a system that achieves social wellbeing, as i know you do…we are totally detached from the decision making process, we can only react to what the powerful dictate to us…has there every been a time in britains history that we have less power than we do now, or a time when the british economy/society served all of it’s citizens…we have always had to fight tooth and nail for the scraps from the tables of the rich…yet it is us that produce the wealth, and us who are discarded as being surplus to requirements…we have dire social problems caused by capitalist/cooperate greed in the uk and globally, a solution must be found, unemployment is soaring, and a low wage economy is the norm, and wages are being pushed downwards….in the pyramidical capitalist system all wealth flows in one direction towards the rich, who are getting richer….

    • It’s a great concept but with only 120,000 signatures out of the 1 million needed and only two months to go it’s not going to happen.

      Seems like people in poverty just want to stay that way!

      • not true, people in poverty should have a basic income, something that is being denied at present to those reliant on jsa or basic sickness benefit, while rich pensioners and others are pocketing the concessions and benefits they receive.

        If as the video link in above provided by obd is correct that capitalism cannot provide work for everyone due to automation or over production and scare resources then there should be a safety net for all of those affected by this with a basic income and without conditionality to litter pick etc for said income.

        • ps half of these petitions that are going around will not let you comment unless you sign first and they usually benefit social agencies financially rather than the petitioners.

  50. Universal Jobshite is Shite!!

    Been trying to log into Universal Jobshite (to try out jobsmash🙂 ) and this is all that is returned:

    “Server Error in ‘/’ Application.
    The resource cannot be found.
    Description: HTTP 404. The resource you are looking for (or one of its dependencies) could have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable. Please review the following URL and make sure that it is spelled correctly.

    Requested URL: /Protocols/Saml20/Signin.ashx”

    What a pile of fucking shite that site is!!!!

  51. I’m also getting the application error when I try to log into UJM.
    I guess it’s something else they can try and sanction us for. We can’t log in and they will probably blame the unemployed.

    • Yeah, I know got my fucking joblog to fill out for tomorrow. Cunts!

    • If you are post work programme as I am they can force you under threat of sanction to register with UJM and upload a cv, which I have done. However, I have ticked the box making my cv private and have not allowed them access to my account. I stated that I would not necessarily be applying for any “recommended jobs” which the system automatically generates, although I sometimes view them if they seem suitable, and have applied for a few. I also stated that I was happy to do a jobsearch each day using UJM without logging into it. I have to log in to UJM three times per jobsearching week purely to check if there are any jobs “saved by my advisor” which obviously I would be compelled to apply for, and obviously some jobs can only be applied for by logging into UJM. In either of these two cases, I log quickly back out again afterwards.
      I sincerely hope that the UJM site is up and running before midnight…

      • I could be wrong about this, but I think that if you haven’t allowed access to your account then the adviser can’t save any jobs for you.

        • @JBS, my post-work programme advisor has never saved any jobs for me since advising me to log in and check 3 times per week for such jobs, which has been for about two or three months now, but she has also never said she has tried and been unable to, so I’m presuming she can “blindly” leave them in, and presumably check how many times I have logged in, but not check my activity on the actual account. I don’t get spam offers of jobs from UJM either, as if I remember correctly there is a box to tick for that as well (although I hate UJM so much I’m not inclined to check whether that is the case). I use a paper form to record my jobsearch as I object to someone knowing exactly when I wrote down a record of my actual jobsearch; it is far too Orwellian, as is the whole system for monitoring our jobsearches. The screen on my account does show an automatic record of recent jobs applied for via logging into UJM, but they are written, along with other jobs applied for outwith UJM, in my paper jobsearch diary. As I wrote previously, if they try to tell me that I must use UJM to record my jobsearch and deny me a paper jobsearch diary I will refuse to do so and will advise them that I will continue to hand in a paper jobsearch record, since I have photocopied a blank one which I will use as a mastercopy while adjusting the dates accordingly.
          If you have denied them access to your UJM as is your right, then going in and logging into it and showing them a screen with your record of your jobsearch activity is surely contradictory to that right. Several months ago when I was still on the work programme a work programme advisor person showed me the UJM and how you can record your jobsearch activity on UJM, and I asked her if there was the option to print it, and she said no. I don’t know if that has changed, and since I have no intention of ever using the onscreen facility to record my jobsearch I don’t really want to know. I think the reasons for JCP staff maintaining that the rules have changed are partly that they can’t be bothered to type up a record of your jobsearch and also to move closer to IDS’ Orwellian dream/our nightmare of being monitored in our own homes. The more they are able to convince us that the rules have changed, the more they will be able to change the rules in my opinion.

          • They have just got very stroppy (disproportionately so) over the issue of job search diaries/recording using paper & ink rather than print-outs. I have the same objections (broadly what I object most to is being ‘corralled/press-ganged’ into particular forms of behaviour & agree that the more we ‘go along’ with this the less easyit becomes to say no to anything else that’s presented as ‘helpful’ – eg breaking rocks in the midday sun).

            But that ‘main’ objection is of course part of a wider preference to Not Have to Live with even less income/risk homelessness/become instrumental in the deteriorating health/life chances of a minor.

            • I was sanctioned over this ‘joblog’ crap so be careful!

            • Thanks – trying to be careful but it’s been an uphill struggle all the way & very time-consuming.

              Sorry to hear that’s happened – & extremely angry that it’s happening/they’re getting away with doing it. Really hoping that ‘in the end ‘ there will be some justice. Is it worth appealing? I have a copy of a FOI request on presenting evidence that states “From Occtober 2013, people claiming either new JSA or UC will still be able to submit paper based evidence to show what they have been doing to look for work”. (Un)clearly, even this is open to ‘interpretation’ …

            • A written joblog doesn’t amount to a hill of beans of these days, shirleynott, they can easily turn around and say you made it – and that’s what they do. They want access to your accounts and not just UJM. You really have to cover your butt, be robust in your job-seeking record-keeping – I know, it’s time-consuming – and be able to provide some sort of ‘evidence’ for the supreme court lol, because that’s the thing, they just sanction first and don’t even bother to ask questions later… and that’s it save from a ‘reconsideration’ and a GL24 ‘Appeal form’. Relying on a paper form – that you could have ‘just filled in the night before’ is going to lead to difficulties… if and when it’s your turn to be sanctioned.

            • And the reason they want access to your accounts is to make it easier to sanction you. You can’t ‘win’! lol

            • Oh, and they also want your job-search records to be even more ‘granular’, they have been giving jobseekers a sheaf full of A4 paper to fill in along with their ‘joblog’, I know it’s taking the piss, but what can a jobseeker do? That is how they ‘police’ the 20, 30, 40, 100 hours a week, whatever ‘job-searching’ requirement, they are just going to say you couldn’t possibly have spent 40 hours a week on UJM and only applied for x amount of jobs. It’s pure Monty Python!

            • They are using the term ‘granular’ – as in ‘A granular (job) log’?

              This could be the new means to shame us with :”2.5million+ jobseekers have failed to produce a sufficiently granular job log. It seems they are not trying hard enough & will be sent to a ‘re-training centre’ to allow them to prepare more fully for getting into ‘more & better’ work as quickly as possible. Unless & until we observe that they are in fact doing everything reasonable to achieve a truly grainy texture, doubts may be raised concerning their ability to totally commit to their agreement, log-wise … “

            • Granular: as in they want your job-search record broken into the minutest detail which makes it a lot harder to justify the time spent on an individual task as well as being laborious and tedious to produce!

            • e.g in some jobcentres jobseekers are being given 100 A4 sheets as continuation sheets for the ‘joblog’ form which in itself only contains tiny boxes and eight rows for week 1 and week 2 with the expectation that these are brought in for the next appointment filled out; basically it is just a piss-take.

            • gran·u·lar
              adjective \ˈgran-yə-lər\ : finely detailed , ,granular joblog >

            • gran·u·lar
              adjective \ˈgran-yə-lər\: finely detailed *granular reports* *granular joblog*

            • Good grief.

              So “Asked friends & family” might require a detailed breakdown of the journey to & from/the discussion that took place/whether hot drinks were involved and the return journey?

  52. Whatever the problem with UJM they are taking a long time to sort it out. Maybe they forgot to upload the old non existent jobs for people to look at tomorrow.
    Imagine if jobcentre staff denied that the website was unavailable, these days we can’t trust them to do the right thing and be honest.

  53. He was of the opinion that “If the rest of the country knew what we were being paid, there would be tumbrels on the street and heads carried around on pikes.”
    The above is a quote from “Lord” Freud’s Wikipedia page.

  54. At last UJM is back up and running. At least I have been able to put in the activity section a job I found and applied for on the totaljobs website. I noticed it stated 202 jobs posted today in my area. Of course most of them were CV job warehouse. I noticed one job posted by jsajobs. It was a self employed job but the jsa interested me so I had a look.

  55. For the benefit of viewers south of the border this translates as: Jakies – a shambolic. unkempt, alcoholic often seen with a can of Special Damage (Special Brew) sticking out of their pocket, often seen hanging about outside jobcentre plus offices.🙂

  56. Soft Southerner

    You could have fooled me… lol🙂

  57. Message for all you little people:

    Keep on paying your bills and taxes, ha ha ha.

    Ha ha ha…

  58. Tell me, do you have running water up in Scotchland yet?

  59. There’s been a murder… in the jobcentre🙂

  60. OT.

    “The Metropolitan Police has decided not to investigate allegations about the past business affairs of the Conservative Party Chairman Grant Shapps made by the Labour MP Steve McCabe. But, in an unusual move, the Met has told McCabe that lawyers who advised the police concluded that the selling of the software may be ”an offence of fraud” and perhaps other offences.”

    http://blogs.channel4.com/michael-crick-on-politics/constitute-offence-fraud-police-drop-case-shapps/3588

    The law is there for you and I, NOT them, they are above the law!!!.

  61. Smash Sanctions

    SANCTIONS MUST GO!!

  62. You all be careful what you are signing at the jobcentre: last time I signed they tried to trick me into waiving my rights to privacy under the Data Protection Act 1998 under the pretext of some ‘recruitment campaign’ with an employer, you had to say what types of work you were interested from a menu i.e cleaner, dish-washer. Anyway, the form they tried to trick me into signing was a “consent for jobcentre plus and their partners to share information with this particular employer, employers and third parties (none of it was in bold, just for emphasis). So, it didn’t even relate to this particular ‘opportunity’, it was a ‘catch all’ that the jobcentre will keep on file allowing them to share your private and personal information with any Tom, Dick & Harriet! Funny thing was as I waited to sign everyone else was just signing this form without even reading it Is you typical jobseeker lobotomised or something? I do wonder at times? Anyway, be very, very careful of what they sneak under your nose to sign (especially if done with a smiling face). They are so, so crafty and sneaky!

    • Just to emphasis it was to allow their partners to share information as well, so there goes the ‘work programme’ data sharing in one fell swoop. Of course you can always withdraw consent, but this was done so sneakily that you wouldn’t even realise you had given consent in the first place. It just goes to show how they will use any underhand method to trick you into giving consent to the sharing of you personal information – they must really hate the Data Protection Act 1998 and the protection it affords us. Anyway, just a heads up in case anyone gets caught out by this sort of thing.

  63. All the bouncers, so many bouncers, they all walk round and round, round and round and round…. Shitelife! Actually that’s all they really do, what a boring job!

    I had 3 of them the other week, watching from minimum safe distance.

    I got a little heated and was speaking loudly. No swearing! Although i was being insulting to the cheap suited psychopath adviser who I had never seen before. He said I had done the minimum to look for work, but then proceeded to sanction me for 13 weeks, sorry, refer it to the DM! Probably because I dared to question what he was saying to me.
    Another christmas with zero income. Unless I can get hardship payments. Which I am applying for this week.

    A line manager had to take over and thought he was being clever by putting words in my mouth, trying to trick me, etc etc.
    Of course I defended myself well, I don’t care anymore really. Because I don’t care that’s why I simply tell it like it is. The only way I will ever have an income again is if I find a job. There is no defence either. Appeals are largely a waste of time. Although i always do, but the almighty DM is never listening, do they even read the GL24?
    These people would have you do anything as long as you’re off their books, suitable or not. No thanks.

    I have just finished the WP too! So, will be facing the hit squad. Although one of my good contacts in the JC said that the young woman i will be seeing is nice. The person who told me this is a good one, one of those rare human beings that still can be found in the JC.

    But we will see. I rebel against it all. But I look for work, want to work.

    I will not be dictated to by the JC. Will not tolerate dirty looks or being talked to like dirt.
    They can just keep sanctioning me every fortnight. I’ve had enough.
    I have a roof over my head and eat. I have some support.

    I am lucky, but I fight them because it is wrong what they are doing.

    I do not condone violence against the staff. I’m not a violent man. I only believe in hitting someone when it’s in self defence to someone trying to physically hurt you.
    I must admit though that this last adviser was so nasty that i had the thought that I would like to give him a right hook. Odious man he was.
    But any rational person will not use violence. Why give then the satisfaction of getting you arrested. Punching someone isn’t going to get you benefits, just get you slung in jail.

    They punish us enough. The bastards. It’s hard trying not to let them grind you down.

    Stay strong people.

    • Everyone should know this but security/’customer care’ can send messages directly to an adviser’s computer screen…🙂

  64. i guarantee I would have smashed the face in of the sneering DM that told my very disabled husband he had to go to work!!! if she wasn’t on the phone I would have done

  65. My list consists of just seven names. Seven names that have caused me so much heartache and suffering, as well as thousands of hours of lost sleep…………..
    The names are in alphabetical order and have appeared on brown envelopes that have taken away my life, bit by bit.
    Being disabled is a burden that nobody should ever have to face, exacerbating my problem by stealing all my benefits has been a step too far.
    I have done nothing wrong, whatsoever, yet these seven have conspired to actively add torture to my inability to live a normal life.
    They, not me, have drawn a line in the sand………..

    You can push a person only so far before they react.

    “Watch this space”

  66. It is divide and rule, and I can tell you (I don’t work for JCP but did for the DSS years ago) for every hard-faced bastard there are people who are trying everything to avoid imposing sanctions, being threatened with performance plans ( oh yes there are targets!)…I agree they shouldn’t cave in but when they know the alternative is being in the queue themselves with a sanction for being sacked,

  67. Job center staff don’t exactly engage in rocket science. There are probably tens of thousands of unemployed people with computer skills who could do the job with a week or two training. I propose a work program were JSP staff have to vacate the job for say six months at a time for a suitably qualified person, then they must work in a factory or shop for their benefit or find a another job. A sort of round robin arrangement where civil service tax payer funded employment is shared, rather than the cozy club with a “a job for life” which they enjoy now.

  68. Human rights in britain are going out of the window

  69. Iain Duncan Smith seems to grin widely every time a food bank is mentioned. How nasty to take pleasure in this.

  70. wow, what a response to this thread, agreed on all, worked for 30 years, paid for 30 years, unfortunately got ill (it does happen unfortunately to humans, we ain robots) failed atos interview twice despite a letter from my doctor and specialist stating I cant work, informed had to join jobseekers to get anything, so lets look at this shall we? im legit ill, cant get esa! or anything, so told to look for a job, but im ill! the job center isn’t bothered, I have to look for work, mum rushed to hospital, I couldn’t do my job search for a week as I was at the hospital (shes 71 for god sake and very ill) went back to jobcenter was told if I wanted any money I had to look for work despite being ill and despite my mum being hospitalized, do you reallky think looking for a job is a priority over my ill mother, do they want me to pay for wifi and log on my job search account in the hospital? apparently yes! 2 words of advice when you have a job center interview say very little, they are looking for you to lose your cool, they love sanctions, also pray you never get ill. im a level headed upstanding citizen that has grafted and paid, im not surprised the attacks on dwp staff have risen and I think they will rise further because the dwp staff want a lesson in people skills, they instigate hate, they hate it when you have an opinion and the benefits system just doesn’t make sense,, mr Cameron your gone next election mark my words, your a fool, cant you see your hated by the dwp staff cos of your cuts and scarily these are the people who give us there hate for you back, it don’t matter if you wear a hoody or Armani to the job centre the staff think we are al dodgers, a very sad state of affairs, welcome to the joke shop

  71. I could not care less after how DWP have treated me over child tax credits the man on the telephone was so vile he made me cry for half an hour afterwards. All DWP staff are nasty i really believe that now. I even emil our local MP about it. They are trying not to pay me

  72. A work coach in my town got the beating of his life for acting the cunt by six people (four he had sanctioned and two who’s spouses he’d done the same to). He ended up a right broken and bloody mess. More people joined in upon hearing what he’d done. The pub landlord (who has son serving a three week sanction) finally put a stop to it and a couple of other guys took this guy out in a car and dumped him on the outskirts of the very next town. The pub shut it’s doors for a bit and we all cleaned up all of the evidence. There were no eye witnesses to this. He had a habit of laughing apparently upon announcing he was recommending sanctions. He deserved it for acting like Judge Jefferies in the job centre and enjoying his little empire a bit too much.

    • The most infamous work coach in my town’s Jobcentre was a legendary cunt. The champion sanction-er in his JCP, he’d smile at you as he told you he was sanctioning you, he was famously rude to women, had a lisp/myopia that was clearly the reason for his pathology and minced around the office like he was about to declare “I’m free!”.
      One day he pushed his luck too far and sanctioned the wrong person (no, not me!), who happened to know his route home from work – a canal towpath. As you might guess, this righteous dude waited behind a bush on said canalside after the office closed and pushed the cunt in when he passed by. (Oh for a photo/video clip of THAT!) Needless to say, he’s not a job coach any more! I might send him some Speedos for Christmas, though…

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