The scandal hit bodged Government spam site Universal Jobmatch will become mandatory in the next few days.
It seems that despite the well documented security problems, which still exist, claimants could be given a Jobseekers Direction to register an account with the site from the beginning of March – some Jobcentres seem to be saying that means tomorrow, the PCS Union have said Monday. There should still be no requirement to tick the box giving the Jobcentre access to your account.
Internet cookie legislation means claimants can still refuse to use the site from their home computer – and there is really no need to tell the Jobcentre you have a home computer. Jobcentres will be providing Internet Access Devices for those unable or unwilling to use a home PC.
DWP staff training documents have recently been acquired via a Free of Information request and are worth reading.
The documents are unclear as to how advisors should respond if a claimant refuses to agree to the website’s terms and conditions stating:
“If a user does not agree to the terms and conditions they are directed to speak to their adviser to discuss their reasons for declining. The claimant will read the disclaimer and then scroll to the lower edge of the page to accept the conditions. “
One interesting point raised in the document training Jobcentre staff themselves on use of the new devices is the risk of identity fraud from people ‘shoulder surfing’. Staff are warned that areas where the machines are used should be monitored to prevent this. And they are right. Internet cafes and libraries have no such protection. Therefore those without computers forced to access Universal Jobmatch as part of their Jobseeker’s Agreement would be advised to request to only do so in the Jobcentre. Truth is even if you have got a computer you might as well sit in the Jobcentre and use theirs, especially with heating bills being what they are.
And so the chaos begins. If millions of people are to be expected to use the new website, and many, most or even a few only elect to use it in Jobcentres, then the system will quickly reach meltdown. An earlier FOI request revealed that: “Nationally the total number of Internet Access Devices purchased is 2176”. That means for JSA claimants alone there is just one computer available for every 700 people. These are the computers Iain Duncan Smith has said he will haul people into Jobcentres to use everyday should they refuse to allow the DWP access to their Universal Jobmatch account. Whoops.
For the latest info on Universal Jobmatch read, share, tweet and keep an eye on: http://consent.me.uk/universaljobmatch/
UPDATE: consent.me.uk (@refuted) on twitter makes the important point: “DWP can only mandate #UniversalJobmatch use & registration @ Jobcentres. No where else, inc Home, Library, Cafes, Cell phone etc”
Follow me on twitter @johnnyvoid
the void 
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People must realise that their DATA is very much at risk by accessing the JobMatch outside the Job Centre. You might be unemployed but you still have data protection rights.
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And so the chaos begins. Bring it!!
This site is total crap. It will not help anyone find a job. Less than a quarter of applications I have made on it have even been looked at. I have requested feedback and none has been given. The jobmatching is bollocks.
carpenter/bench joiner, shuttering carpenter, engineering technician (nights), construction manager, mechanical design engineer, trainee mobile finisher, principle senior mechanical engineer, safety engineer..electrician, gas fitter, engineer/fitter, window fitter, door fitter, handyman, building site offloader, 750 ton multi drop truck driver (90 mins from home)
Total shite. Waste of strivers tax.
What’s it really for?
yes it is crap. my email from them had what it said was 21 jobs but turned out to be only 15 jobs. They can’t even count their own jobs! 14 were 200 miles away and mostly as a truck driver. I don’t have the right to drive a car as I have epilepsy. 1 was half an hour from me by bus. So I checked it out and it was inspecting meat in a meat factory! I’m vegetarian!
It is a sanction machine,
Try phoning about the jobs most never existed anywhere but on paper as they are filled internally and are just advertised to comply with the law, or the second option they end up on UJM after they are filled just to make UJM look like it’s got jobs
I’ll be happy to make an account there. I’ll provide a minimal amount of information (as little as is possible to get away with), not allow dwp access to account, and not hand over my ‘gateway ID’ (if that’s still optional)
Does anybody know how the existence of an account is evidenced to an adviser?
If you don’t give them access to your account they insist on having the email address which you signed up to the service with as apparently that’s all they need to confirm that you have an account on UJ!
However, JSA is not conditional on you providing an email address, so you can tell them to politely fuck off!
I originally tried registering with a fake email address. When the adviser asked me if I had registered I said yes but was still unable to access the site. She then showed me a page of people with the same name as me and their corresponding email addresses and asked if I could see mine! So much for Data Protection!!
Ico complaint 17 February 2013,
Dear Information Commissioner’s Office, I would like your Advise
please.
I am aware of a person that set up a account on universal job
match, they made a new email address to do this, 2 days after
setting up the universal job match account they received an emai
with someones cv all there Personal details were on the cv email,
is this a breach Data Protection Act?
Yours faithfully,
Ico
If you believe that the DWP has mishandled someone else’s personal data
then you can make a complaint to our office. When assessing whether an
organisation is likely or unlikely to have complied with the 7th principle
of the DPA the ICO will need evidence to show that the DWP has disclosed
personal data to the wrong individual. Without this evidence the ICO is
unlikely to be able to make an adverse assessment.
More information about how to complain and what evidence is required can
be found through the following link on our website:……..
Thank you for your further correspondence received on 17 February 2013, regarding the Department for Work and Pensions.
The further documentation you have sent in to case reference xxxxx is being considered as a complaint under the above new reference number. This will be assigned to one of our casework teams before being allocated to a case officer who will respond in line with our current service standards
Please note: should you wish to contact us about this matter please quote the above case reference number. Failure to do so may delay the processing of your request.
If you require any further advice or assistance please contact our Helpline on xxxxxxxxxxx
Yours sincerely
Don’t get too excited. My last complaint to the ICO took three months to answer!
JV – let’s wait until monday 4th March when everything should become clear, or as clear as the DWP thinks it should be!
The DWP seems to believe that the Welfare Reform Act trumps the Data Protection Act and that “doing everything possible to find work” overrides rights to data privacy guaranteed by the latter act as far as forcing people to use Universal Jobmatch goes. I think that this is wrong. I would imagine the Public Interest Lawyers will be on the case as far as this goes in the very near future.
I’d erge everyone that has to sign up to Universal Jobmatch to apply for every job that is matched to thier account. JCP advisers have been told to automaticaly raise a sanction doubt for any failure to apply. As we all know Universal Jobmatch has one purpose and that is to sanction jobseekers.
But if you refuse access to your account how can Jobcentre staff know what you are applying for and/or what you are refusing?
they now want print outs showing you applied
Well, I’m absolutely sure they can’t mandate that! How could anybody justify a sanction because the Jobseeker provided the information in a hand written form rather than a print out from a computer? If they say this tell them where to get off! Fuck ’em!
thanks, perhaps i just landed with one of them rare hitler types
Not granting access to an account is meaningless. JCP know the jobs you are looking for and automatically match them, as well as many other opportunities of work you are capable to do to your UJ account. These jobs can easily be checked to see if you have applied. As UJ is an automated system you could have hundreds of bogus jobs matched to your account every day. 35 hours a week jobsearch is expected. I’d heavily redact your CV if I was you.
yeah but they just look at the title of the job and say you can do this (until I get them to actually look at the full details of the job and it says needs full driving licence (which i do not have) and needs 2 years financial experience (which I do not have), they then go oh.
And the rules have been changed so that you have to apply for “any job you can do”. No ifs – no buts!
going to be difficult for me as all local jobs are for skilled engineers, skilled financial persons, teachers (with at least 2 years + experience) or trained sales people (with at least 3+ years experience).
Also I do not have a driving licence and they are cutting quite a few bus services (which makes factory work impossible to get to and back).
Unless they make you apply for everything and do not care if you have transport or the actual skills to do the job and piss of the employers.
I apply for any job, Knowing i wont fit, Knowing it is a waste of time for them and for me, i still do it.
I am a 52 year old 5 foot tall woman…so you are saying I should apply to be a building site offloader, a 750 ton lorry driver (can’t drive – sorry) shuttering carpenter, electrician. And I can see myself climbing big ladders a hour away carrying huge double glazed wikndows and fitting them. I’d be sanctioned if I did apply. The jobmatching is SHIT
Let’s take this to extremes:
A disabled person or Little Person use UJM, it gives them a vacancy to apply for which they have no chance in hell of doing, however because they don’t apply for it the UJM BOT will issue the order for a sanction to be imposed – and that’s the catch.
I’m 4’8″ and the UJM has no facility for specifying disabilities or anything else. So I can be sent to jobs for tall people. This week they mandated me to apply for a job where the oldest age you can be is 24, but I’m about 12 years too old! then the Apply button didn’t work at all anyway.
this website (UJM) is total shite.
It can only be a matter of time before the DWP sends you a pair of stilts and tells you to pull your socks up…
The DWP don’t need “access” to your account to impose a sanction; it is like the bank don’t need your pin to access your account; a sanction could be imposed within the internal framework of Universal Jobmatch, think of it as an auto-sanctioning machine!
The only jobs that are suggested on my account seem to be 300 miles away & need a full driving licence.
well the apply button isn’t even working – again.
How about this fo a good suggestion. if you are using hotmail designate alerts@ukmgs.co.uk as spam/junk so they get blacklisted
Well, that’s still as clear as mud. According to the Data Protection Act 1998 there are only two ways in which personal data can be processed by a third party:
(1) After obtaining consent to such processing from its owner, or,
(2) The processing happens because of a contractual obligation entered into by the data’s owner or because of a legal requirement.
Assuming you do not consent to Universal Jobmatch, and that registering for it is NOT a legal requirement, the only way I can see that you anyone can be forced into registering for it is if they AGREE to do do by signing a Jobseeker’s Agreement binding them to such an action contractually from that point on. If you are able to refuse to sign a Jobseeker’s Agreement stating that you have agreed to register for and use Universal Jobmatch, and not be sanctioned for it, I cannot see how Jobcentre advisors can mandate claimants to have anything to do with the site.
Eventually this whole sorry mess will end up being tested in court.
What we need now is another brave Cait Reilly to contest mandation.
Basic fundamentals of the data protection act; You have a right to dictate how your personal information is used. This applies to government and companies, and it applies to everyone everywhere.
So if a company has bought your details and is giving you sales calls if you tell them to remove your details they are supposed to by law and cannot argue it.
This applies to all types of information kept excluding criminal records and instances of insolvency.
The other thing, is even if you have signed up to anything you can change that decision any time. So if the job centre try it, you have the right to tell them to stick it.
There is no way they can penalise you for it either as it then becomes a conflict of interests with European Conventions on Human Rights.
That said, this government so far has frequently chosen to ignore all laws it agreed to abide by and try to sneak legislation in left right and centre from Employment rights, to copyright law, to freedom of speech and the right to protest.
And no I am really not kidding on ANY of them, most of the above said have been snook in via Enterprise Legislation.
People in specialist groups left right and centre are flipping their lids at various aspects.
Universal Jobmatch comes under the Jobseekers Allowance (Employment Skills and Enterprise Scheme) Regulations 2011 – Which was ruled unlawful by the High Courts of Justice.
So however the DWP have re-worded it I just can’t see it becoming mandatory.
I think they use the original “jobseeker direction” rules from the 1995 regulations to enforce it. I’m not sure the 2011 ESE regulations had anything to do with it.
It’s reasonable that they may expect you to use the service – though I’m uncertain as to what regulation they can expect you to create an account under. We’ll soon find out how this all fits together, I guess.
They want us to end up giving our data to scammers, or falling for scams where we allow money in our accounts, keep a bit and send the rest on abroad-meaning when the cheques bounce we lose our money.
put the cheque in a spare account.
When it clears keep ALL the money and move.
@PAT ATO is there NO scrutiny at all for anyone posting phoney jobs?? surely they (haha) have a duty to protect jobseekers? or..
Not all jobcentres are approaching this in the same way – I have just signed-on and there was no mention at all of UJ, just the usual posters on the walls (which have been there since the New Year). I wonder if that variation in approach will continue after the 4th of March?
Mine is exactly the same, when i went on tuesday they had posters & leaflets everywhere but no verbal mention of it.
I have been looking at the “whatdotheyknowwebsite” as regards UJ. It seems that the DWP will find a way to mandate UJ but they cannot mandate people to open a Government Gateway account. It is my understanding you need a Government Gateway account to open a UJ account. If you cannot legally be mandated to open a Government Gateway account ; how can you be mandated to open a UJ account. Seriously. Answers please?
They did say they needed to make changes to the service in order for it to become mandatory.
Perhaps the change centres around the point you just made.
Let me make it perfectly clear – if you do not sign up to Universal Jobmatch I will personally see to it that you are hauled into the Jobcentre EVERY FUCKING DAY!!
If that happens – and enough people refuse UJ – then there won’t be enough room in the JC to accomodate everybody.
🙂
Somebody did mention the number of computers in the jobcentre was one for every 700 claiments. There are 6 terminals where i sign, but at least 50 claimants in the building and they havent even started to mandate use yet.
What about the cost of going to the job centre, Will that be refunded? or will you have to use your giro. Costs me £5 to get into town and back, £25 a week day.
I can just picture everybody there with a flask and saarnis, and wheeled suitcases waiting to be seen 24/7and the hitlers all tripping over. and having a nervous break down Piccadilly Circus at rush hour has nothing on this
We shall go on to the end. We shall fight you in Jobcentres, we shall fight you on the Work Programme and Workfare, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength the Bedroom Tax, we shall defend our liberties, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight you on the beaches, we shall fight you on the landing grounds, we shall fight you in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender… FUCK OFF YOU SLAPHEADED NAZI CUNT!
Thanks Winston, your post gave me a much-needed laugh this morning – haven’t slept all night for worrying.
Hear hear
Provide a sensible service then you blithering idiot
ha ha what about jobcentres that have been closed 🙂
and how are you going to get 700+ in each day when you only have 4 computers for UJM.
and you are open from 9 to 5
logistics say this will fail
our jcp has 2 computers and I’ve not even managed to get on the bottom of the waiting list to make appointments to wait on another waiting list to use one. both currently broken….
I suppose as a matter of course everyone should demand to use their machines, even if less convenient.. ..I certainly shall. Hopefully it will then be scrapped.
I shall too, I may even miraculously forget all prior knowledge of using such machines just for kicks.
DEE
Am totaly with you on that one. 100%
It ain’t gonna happen… 🙂
I was in there on monday and she was saying they are already struggling to give jobseekers an interview with their advisor every 4 weeks as it seems to be now. also i told her i won’t consent on UJ and she said the rules are i need to bring a screen printout of every job i apply for on UJ, and just filling in the looking for work booklet isn’t enough now. I don’t have a printer so… what now.
ask to use theirs via an internet access device
email the screenshots to your advisor…loads of them
Ask her to buy you a printer and tell her to send the bill for it to Iain Duncan Smith.
This is outrageous. I think all these demands are beyond reasonable at the peanuts paid by JSA. There is no reason for people to own a computer or be on the internet and if they are it is at great sacrifice of other essentials. What right do they have to demand print-outs and the like unless as you say you use their computers but I have not seen any in my JC. This is my PC, printer, ink cartridges, internet subscription so if they are going to get so demanding thaen I suggest they buy everone a computer, printer, ink cartridges and fund the not cheap cost of internet access – £24.per month for me. Wh the hell do they think they are?
My computer was purchased when I worked but if they think it is now a tool for ‘their’ use then I shal get rid of it. As for UJ site, I am only able to read the first page of that site. What total rubbish!
What I mean by a tool for ‘their’ use is…as a means to monitor me….and they expect me to pay for the privilege? Outrageous! I shall definitely ask to use their facilities if I am ordered to register on this crappy site!
My advisor had me doing this months ago. Just go to a cyber cafe the day before you sign and print off email confirmations, and re send at least 6 jobs and print the first page{black and white!} off before you send it. it will cost about a £5-6, but its money well spent. It cheers you up.You have them by the bollox.
Thats fine if you have £5-6 to waste on something you should not have to pay for since they have IADS (internet access devices) in the offices for claimants with no internet or printer faciltys. , but for the poor people who have been sanctioned no money for weeks to force them to go hunting around for printouts of every single job they did to prove it is just punishment from their advisor for not giving them access. If they want print outs as proof and you dont have access to a computer the rules state they HAVE to offers the iADS there and print out from there….OR offer to email them
from the PCS Union website:
Paragraph 52 also states that “We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this.”
“WHERE AM I”, “Your in the Village”
Suppose IDS must be the new number 2
Jobcentres are a mad house right now – can you imagine what it will be like if and I do stress IF UJM becomes mandatory. No-one will use their own computers at home for this – everyone will want to use the Jobcentres computers (limited to 4 only per Jobcentre as advised by BT – their only ISP) – it will be total meltdown – Fun for all the family.
Doesn’t help that the local JCP is over 20 miles away.
True Obi Wan, with a 30 minute/1 hour booked session, these IAD’S will indeed grind to a backlog within 2 weeks if people opt to use them.
I suppose there use it depends on whether the DWP remove the monitoring opt out, who in there right mind would pay for the privilege of being monitored at home.?
It’s a bit like the Jews in 40’s Germany/Poland being told to buy their own cans of Zyklon B and bring them to the shower blocks.
wait until universal credit starts and an extra 5 million end up in the machine.
Yeah, including the 40% of the Jobcentre staff themselves who get in work tax credits…LOL!
I agree with you that it’s not mandatory yet so worry about it when it is. Most, if not all people I speak to will humph and moan about the system but will use their own PCs and broadband account because it saves them from getting off their fat backsides and actually doing something ‘constuctive’.
And spending 3 or more quid on the bus every day?
From my post:
“Most, if not all people I speak to…..”
Read and absorb the above quote. The people refered to are fit and able to walk the approx. 2-5 mile distance to the jobcentre. Please consider this before stating that some people have mobility issues. I stand by my post, it’s easier to roll over than to put in some effort.
Reblogged this on The Greater Fool.
I put in a freedom of information request below is part of there responce
DWP Central Freedom of Information Team
e-mail: freedom-of-information-request@dwp.gsi.gov.uk
Our Ref: retracted
28th February 2013
Dear Mr Lamb,
Thank you for your Freedom of Information request. The questions you raised are detailed
below (grouped into topics) along with our responses.
1. Universal Jobmatch and the Government Gateway.
1.1 Jobcentre Plus staff are issuing opaque orders for people in receipt of Jobseekers
Allowance to register on the Government Gateway.
The ‘orders’ document referred to in your request is not a nationally approved Universal
Jobmatch (UJ) product. We have therefore requested all Jobcentre Plus offices refrain from
using locally produced products and as a result of this, documents of this nature should no
longer be in circulation.
1.2 Can you confirm that none of the Actions listed in these civil service delivered orders
indicates they are mandatory and that if none of the actions listed on this document are not
followed there will be no benefit sanction? Please provide internal information on Jobcentre
Plus policy on whether your policies on fully informed consent apply to Universal Jobmatch
and the Government Gateway?
1.5 Please provide a copy of all the guidance issued to Jobcentre Plus staff that states they
they can make it mandatory for people in receipt of Jobseekers Allowance to allow Jobcentre
Plus and DWP staff log-in access to their Universal Jobmatch account and work search
records records, without the account holder needing to be present. Is consent required to allow
DWP and Jobcentre Plus staff to have log-in access to a Universal Jobmatch users account?
1.6 Please provide a copy of all the guidance issued to Jobcentre Plus staff that states they
can make it mandatory for people in receipt of Jobseekers Allowance to disclose the “User ID
No” referred to in item 4 of the order. I consent required to disclose to DWP or Jobcentre Plus
staff confirmation of a Universal Jobmatch/Government Gateway “User ID No”?
DWP Central Freedom of Information Team
e-mail: freedom-of-information-request@dwp.gsi.gov.uk
Our Ref: VTR585
28th February 2013
I was told by an advisor when signing for jsa that universal jobsearch would become
mandatory, can you confirm or clarify this?
It is not currently mandatory for jobseekers to use the Universal Jobmatch (UJ) service;
claimants therefore register with UJ via the Government Gateway on a voluntary basis.
Likewise, the consent to access their UJ account is given voluntarily.
However we do intend to introduce mandatory use of Universal Jobmatch in 2013. It has
always been our intention to mandate some JSA claimants to register with Universal Jobmatch
and upload a CV so that they can make full use of the service. We intend to require those
claimants to do this under a Jobseeker’s Direction, when some changes have been made to
the service to fully support this. Jobseeker’s Directions require Jobseeker’s Allowance
claimants to take specific actions which will help them find work, and failure to do so without
good reason may result in a benefit sanction.
Claimants will not be asked to provide DWP staff with their Government Gateway User ID; this
is personal to the claimant and must not be shared. However, claimants can choose to allow
DWP access their account on a purely voluntary basis by ticking a box within their UJ profile.
Consequently there is no guidance on these subjects as suggested in points 1.5 and 1.6 of
your request.
1.3 What are the legal basis that registration with the Government Gateway are a mandatory
condition of Jobseekers Allowance?
Registration with the Government Gateway is not a mandatory condition of Jobseekers
Allowance. However, once creating an account with Universal Jobmatch becomes mandatory
for some jobseekers it will be necessary for those claimants to register with the Government
Gateway.
1.4 Please provide a copy of all the guidance issued to Jobcentre Plus staff on Universal
Jobmatch and the Government Gateway?
Please see attached a copy of the Jobcentre Plus Universal Jobmatch toolkit. This guidance
reflects what is currently provided to staff. However, it is currently under review and may be
revised in future.
1.9 What law and regulations make it mandatory for someone on Jobseekers Allowance to
give DWP or Jobcentre Plus copies of personal private and confidential correspondence with
employers, to retain, concerning job applications?
There is no law or regulation making it mandatory for someone on Jobseeker’s Allowance
(JSA) to give DWP or Jobcentre Plus copies of personal private and confidential
correspondence with employers. However, JSA claimants must demonstrate what they are
doing to look for work under section 24 of the Jobseeker’s Allowance Regulations 1996; or
demonstrate that they have complied with a requirement to apply for a vacancy notified to
them by their adviser. Failure to do so without good reason could result in a benefit sanction
being imposed.
1.7 Can you confirm that Jobcentre Plus or Universal Jobmatch Staff have the facility to
provide any Job Applicant, upon their request, with the contact details of any employer who
has posted a vacancy on Universal Jobmatch, so the applicant can apply direct to the
employer, rather than disclose personal correspondence and a job application (personal data)
with the government via Universal Jobmatch?
It is for an employer to choose both the method of application and the level of detail to be
displayed on the job posting. If an employer uses the online service to advertise their jobs, they
can choose whether to have applications directly through the UJ service or via alternative
methods. It is recommended that employers always include an alternative contact method
even if applications are accepted online through the service.
DWP staff will not be able to provide jobseekers with alternative contact details for any
employer who has chosen to only receive applications through the service.
Universal Jobmatch has been developed to meet existing accessibility standards (W3C AA)
and be compatible with assisted technologies. However, alternative methods of contact will be
provided, on request, for disabled jobseekers or jobseekers with a health condition or
impairment who are unable to use the service.
1.8 Can you confirm that Jobcentre Plus that it is not possible to sanction someone’s
Jobseekers Allowance if they do not wish to apply for a job only listed on Universal Jobmatch,
but would be happy for Jobcentre Plus to assist them make a job application direct to the
employer, rather than disclose personal correspondence and a job application (personal data)
with the government via Universal Jobmatch?
A claimant must create a Universal Jobmatch account in order to apply for a job directly
through the service. However, as it is not currently mandatory for claimants to create an
account, advisers will not require claimants who have chosen not to register with the service to
apply for any of these jobs.
That said, at present claimants will still be expected to undertake anonymous jobsearches on
UJ and apply for any jobs that they are capable of doing, where the method of application is
external to the service (e.g. by posting or emailing your CV/application form directly to the
employer). Failure to do so without good reason may result in a benefit sanction being
imposed.
Can you clarify what checks are made on people who are posting job vacancies on universal
Jobmatch site.
Built into the service are monitoring tools which help to detect, deter and remedy inappropriate
use of the site. Any individual or company could have a genuine requirement to post a job that
they wish to fill. The service is designed to block known bogus / fraudulent employers from
accessing the service. Also checks are made to identify inappropriate, fraudulent and bogus
jobs in order to block them from being posted.
In addition to this, employers are obliged to sign up to detailed Terms and Conditions, agreeing
that the jobs they advertise on the Universal Jobmatch service are available to jobseekers on
an open and fair basis; and that all vacancies comply with employment related legislation
including the Equality Act 2010, Health and Safety legislation and Working Time Regulations.
If you have any queries about this letter please contact me quoting the reference number
above.
Yours sincerely,
DWP Central FoI Team
elite can you post a link to the actual FOI please?
Can they give everybody a Memory Stick so you can save all your searches on there so they can look at them at their leisure?
stop giving them idea’s.
🙂
Yes – they can. Just ask
Tell you wot mate, this new universal jobmatch or wotever it is called is really going to piss off us jcp security goons……. .. 🙂
Dee
you are so right am more than pissed off.
Jim
I get your point. The Jobseeker’s Agreement would contractually bind claimants. Here is what the DWP have said in a reply today to a FOI request:
“With reference to future intentions to mandate JSA claimants to register with Universal Jobmatch I can agree that it is completely appropriate for the public to know and understand the legal basis under which they can be mandated to use UJ. However, at this point in time we could only tell people the different options that could apply and are being considered.”
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/139128/response/365011/attach/html/3/IR%2032%20Response.pdf.html
What different options? If people who cannot use computers are put first in the queue it would keep specialist DWP sanctioning units busy!
I would have added to that FOI, Isn’t Iain Duncan Smith just making this shit up as he goes along?
Hmmm
Seems to be more of this government’s reaction to something of theirs that is broken.
If it doesn’t work, do it even more and by-golly then do it some more.
yep it is.
when the court case said workfare was unlawful, IDS went on a vocal rant saying more sanctions will be used.
can you put a virus on your memory stick?
Question about UJM:
It seems to be totally out of order as everyone is forced to give their personal details, ethnic group, sexual orientation etc and it gets processed in Utah???!! one of the world capitals of bigotry, racism and homophobia.
“can you put a virus on your memory stick”? Absolutely you can which is why the one I was given at a trade fair has never entered my computer – you never know!
You could get an old banger computer and test the memory stick or just shove it in one of the Jobcentre computers and hope the CCTV doesn’t pick you up doing it.
Better still, use Linux to reformat the memory stick, (it will format for a Windows file system). If you use a live cd, as suggested by Workhouse below, you can reformat using that.
Better still, why not change to using Linux anyway, though even if you do install it to your HDD I’d still follow Workhouse’s suggestion that you jobsearch using a live cd.
the Internet Access Devices surprisingly will run on Linux and use OpenOffice
If their going to use Linux, they will have to train the Jobcentre staff on how to use it because at the mo they use Windows (usually the old unstable XP)
And jobcentres still use Internet Explorer 6 as their browser of choice lol 🙂
yes, surprising, but it’s no doubt to cut costs…and as the IADs are ‘thin clients’ they will be pretty slow, especially as they use cumbersome, lumbering Firefox, (though it is secure). I’m even more surprised at the choice of OpenOffice though, it’s just about obsolete, and most people use the LibreOffice fork.
one suspects Its already in hand.
I have a few ideas, that may be worth considering. If you have to use your own computer, use a live cd distro of Linux (for those familiar with windows only Linux mint is similar enough) Using the live cd does not allow any information or cookies, trackers etc to be stored on your hard drive. Secondly before you log off live install, send your dwp advisor an email copy of each and every job you have applied for. ( that will slow them down a great deal) And lastly everyone forced to use this jobsite nonsense may I suggest we all log on at exactly 9.00 am each day see how long their scheme lasts then.
That’s effectively a DDOS attack and is now considered a terrorist offence. Careful what you recommend (but it’s a great idea 🙂 )
Can they arrest 2.5 million “terrorists”? I believe that it would only be a terrorist offence if I had control of a botnet and initiated the attack myself. To charge me with the actions of 2.5 million others is I believe beyond their capability. Any way I have no longer anything to lose.
If everybody who agrees to log on does it later, say 2 pm, it will be a busier time for normal traffic and any fixes would have to wait.
Am in. Not like people are not looking for work though the clearly know the are no jobs . And i think the should change the name to PROBATION CENTRE PLUS lol.
well suppose we will see what happens on monday morning.
All of this is pure speculation, the DWP’s offical line on the website shutdown for 9 hours on Sunday 3rd of march is “FOR MAINTENENCE” – nothing about UJM has been stated.
People who have reported that Jobcentre advisers are telling people UJM will become mandatory on 4 March may just be trying to get people to sign up again (panic them if you like).
Some people saying some JCP’s say 1st March, some saying 4th March and nothing from the DWP on this.
I think it’s scare tactic’s – nothing at all in it and a total load of bollocks.
Yes, they are refering to the tick box instead of registry.
Telling me I will have to tick the box. .
been confirmed by PCS and I think an FOI request as well
Nothing on PCS Union website about it, here’s the link for the most recent news:
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/news_and_events/news_centre/index.cfm
Nothing on DWP website either:
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/newsroom/press-releases/
It was on a tweet from someone in the PCS union – sorry can’t find the link now.
https://twitter.com/pcs_union/status/306424237973983232
Muchas Gracias.
JV – already saw that one – there’s still nothing solid.
It’s probably knackered all ready
Brilliant idea, and eminently practical too. The suggestion that we all log on at 9.00 am each morning is too a great idea as it amounts to a ‘spontaneous’ DDoS attack (basically the internet equivalent of gridlock) that nothing can be done about bar increasing server capacity, which costs, and is still vulnerable to this kind of tactic.
Let’s give this a go, seriously, it is probably the only way we are going to slay this beast, by making it unworkable – it;s creaking anyway so it won’t take that much of a shove.
Then at 10.00am we log onto dwp website, at 11.00am uk.gov. When I try to think of ways to give this Government a lesson, I constantly think of the Norwegian resistance under Nazi occupation. They did not go around blowing everything up. (contrary to modern film lore) A very successful tactic was to drop a few grains of sand into the machinery, multiplied by a large number of people doing it, caused the machinery to fail. We are many grains of sand, they have the whips and the sanctions. We have the numbers, there is strength in numbers.
Someone after my own heart.
Brilliant video General! I now understand where you name comes from. The video is a perfect example of how history, repeats itself, sadly. Good luck to you and all others equally enlightened. We all hang together or we all hang separately!
Your suggestion also has the huge advantage is that no-one need expose themselves, they would just be doing what they are supposed to do…albeit all at once! Passive resistance is seriously underrated.
Didn’t wade through this thread until now, so a bit late to the table with this, but check out the last verse of Shelley’s poem about the Peterloo Massacre committed by the British government in Manchester in 1819:
“Rise like lions after slumber/In unvanquishable number/Shake your chains to earth like dew/Which in sleep did fall on you/We are many, they are few”.
I think that if everyone used the site for 35 hours a week and applied for as many jobs as possible, then that in itself would cause a meltdown, particularly as employers would be rather unhappy at having a hundred thousand applications to sort through!
Will everyone in receipt of Universal Credit be forced to use UJ aswell? Thousands of working claimants queuing up after a day at work to use the job centre computer? They’ll have to extend their opening hours I think 😉 its not going to work, it’s a mess but this is Toryland, I expect nothing less. Also, the summer holidays will be interesting. Single parents on JSA crammed into the job centre (with the kids) waiting for computer time, or filling the library (one is still open here) queueing for the free half hour on a pc. There is no possible way anyone is ever going to fulfil the ridiculous 35hr a week job search requirement. If they sanction everyone then perhaps riot police should be sent to every jobcentre because people with nothing to lose have nothing to lose! I’d like job centre staff to refuse to participate but I’m not holding my breath…
Everyone who receives any form of benefit and is not in full time work will have to sign up to Jobmatch and use it to look for more work. Even the 40% of Jobcentre staff who receive in work benefits will have to do it – so you might find yourself sitting next to your adviser on a jobsearch day! How the wheel turns. 🙂
Universal Credit will never be. It’s due to be piloted in four areas next April with new claims for it nationwide supposed to begin next October. I can’t see them getting that far. The rest of us are supposed to be migrated to the new system over the next four years or so. Won’t happen. I wouldn’t worry about Universal Credit in it’s “digital by default” roll-out because just like Perpetual Motion the whole idea behind it is impossible.
The pilot areas are going ahead in April this year, one month from now! And the roll out to the rest of the country starts in October this year.
My JCP adviser said everyone who wants to apply for Universal Credit will HAVE to have a computer to do so. I am just wondering if their machines will be available for use to sign up for this as well as using them for jobsearch at the UJ sight? I can see alot of confusion ahead!
According to Lord Freud there will still be call centre support for people without computers. If he’s telling the truth… which isn’t often. I wouldn’t believe a Jobcentre adviser if they told me the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Not because they’re bad but because they usually know less about what’s going on in the DWP than people who visit sites like this. I mean obviously in a country of 60,000,000 people not everyone claiming Universal Benefit will have or be able to use an internet connected computer.
It isn’t going to work. It will be trialled and fail. They’ll then move to a mostly paper-based system like it is now.
And the most streesful thing is when your child wants to go the loo hungry etc. My JC no longer have a toilet this lady was told to go to the shopping.
“Jobseeker’s Directions
95. You cannot issue a Jobseeker’s Direction to either require a claimant to create a profile and CV in Universal Jobmatch or to mandate a claimant to give us access to their account – this is their
decision not ours.”
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/universal_jobmatch_toolkit_chapt#incoming-365038
This document is still *current* as of today – if a jobseeker’s direction is issued challenge it!
It is also the case that only *some* will be eligible for UJ registration, something key to remember!
See latest advice in comments section:
Channel 4 News tonight 7:00pm
Ciaran Jenkins @C4Ciaran
Lord Freud won’t answer our questions on the #bedroomtax so we’ve taken our questions to him. Find out what happened on #c4news tonight..
Now that should be interesting.
Lord Freud’s answer to Channel 4 News was and I quote:
“UMMM”! – then he walked off after the Channel4 News reporter was stopped by one of Freuds lackey’s.
A Internet Access Device that relies solely on WiFi, how very interesting.
chaos ensues 🙂
Another response to a FOI request:
“The revised Jobseeker’s Agreement does not require JSA claimants to use Universal Jobmatch. There is a new checkbox within the Jobseeker’s Agreement to include how often a claimant will check their Universal Jobmatch account, for those who have created an account. However, this is in agreement with the claimant and for those that have not registerewith the service the checkbox should not be ticked.”
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/141054/response/364694/attach/html/3/4807%20response.pdf.html
On an unrelated note I see that RBS is to award bonuses of £600 million. The bank made losses of over £5 billion. The bedroom tax will cost the poorest £470 million.
from the tookit :
Claimant agrees to create a profile and CV in Universal Jobmatch but does not allow
DWP to access their account
87. In these cases, you will need to take the action described in paragraph 38. The only exception to
this action is the ‘Description’ field on the Workflow or ‘Details’ field on the Conversation must say,
‘Claimant agreed to create UJ account but will not allow DWP access’.
88. You will also need to explain, that because the claimant does not wish to allow DWP access to
their account (and this is their decision not ours so you cannot issue a Jobseeker’s Direction to
gain access) when they next attend they will need to bring a copy of their CV. This may take the
form of:
So no jobseekers direction can be given to give DWP access.
But why do you need to bring a copy of your CV because you haven’t given access?
To allow a human clerk at the Jobcentre to force you to apply for jobs that you’d ignore if sent to you by Universal Jobmatch.
soo confuseing, loggd on today to uj, but it wants me to agree to the new conditions, because i didnt really understand them, i didnt, then i was unable to apply for the job i was intreasted in… in agreeing to the new conditions does it now allow for job centre staff to view my job search? there was a job i wanted to apply for, however because i didnt agree to the new conditions i was unable to apply… could somebody say in simple terms what the rules are, have to go to job centre next week and am dreading it, can some one tell me please
Tracy Doherty:
The Jobcentre advisers always target the shy or quiet one’s, they will never target someone who is prepaired to stand up for themselves as they really hate a scene being caused as everyone pays attention to it and the advisers probably have to make out a lengthy report on it.
Tracy Doherty:
Go to this website link below, it will tell you everything you need to know – then check it again on the 4th March for the official update for Universal Jobmatch.
http://consent.me.uk/universaljobmatch/
obi wan kenobi, i am not one of the quite ones , ive stood up to them, made a scene, and called the manager out, and so far have not ticked the box and not gone the job centre everday to prove im looking for work, which is what the adviser said i had to do,,,however i need to know what the rules are in simple terms so when i go to job centre im armed with my rights, as their were changes on the 18th feb, and after reading all the above comments im still not sure weather i have to use their job site, does agreeing to the new terms on their uj now allow them to look into my uj account? i do want a job, i do want to work, but im not haveing them dictate to me what jobs i can do. can u answer my question please, jobmatch toolkit chapter 3 paragraph 52 says: we cannot specify to a jsa clament how they provide us with records of their jobserch activity and universal jobmatch will not change this 17 january 2013 does this still stand as of todays date? answer somebody please, sorry if i seem a bit thick, dont really understand cookies and all that, but know that every time i go jobcentre they bullying me, and seeing as im am looking and doing everything in my power to secure work, they are really pissing me off, the problem isnt people not looking for work, the problem is there is beetween 20 and over 100 going for the same bloody job
Right now it’s NOT mandatory to join Universal Jobmatch – any adviser at the Jobcentre who say’s it is has lied to you.
But as of monday 4th march it could be, so check the consent.me website on that date – that’s the best advice I can offer as things stand right now.
obi wan keobi, thank you i will cheak on the consent me on 4th march
man¦da¦tory from Ye Old English
Definition: because a job centre adviser says you have to
tracy
https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/Account/InfoTermsConditions.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Jobmatch
Those new Terms and Conditions are so they can absolve themselves of any liability or losses users may incur from scam/phishing job posts
Instead of fixing the problem they’ve dumped the responsibility onto the users.
It’s a bit like what the DWP are doing with Local Councils and the cuts
Don’t worry, you do not have to register or even use Universal Jobmatch at presant. Write the job reference number down and phone Jobcentre Plus to apply.
Telephone: 0845 606 0234
Textphone: 0845 605 5255
Monday to Friday, 8am to 6pm
yeahI will just phone the 0845 number for 50p a min no thanks.
The DWP have been forces to move over to a free 0345 – call from uk mobiles should be free to 0345 numbers
As far as I can tell it does not allow dwp acess.
The new one today does not either
ummm , thanks dzwasp ive been reading all comments, now have a better understanding.
Has anyone picked up on the fact that they’ve introduced this legally dubious mandation on virtually the same day that Legal Aid has been removed! Coincidence or what?
Suppose the claimant said yes, just to grease their path through the office, but then simply took off the cookie when they get home and use their computer ?
Here’s a useful site about how to take your cookies off your computer :
http://www.aboutcookies.org/default.aspx
Universal Jobmatch rules and regulations have been rewritten and as of yet not released. All FoI requests concerning UJ will be out of date very soon.
And do you know when the new regulations are due to be released (and by released I assume you mean to the Jobcentre staff)?
Lucozade re CV
Maybe DWP wants to create accounts for claimants who do not register themselves? Job offers could be manually passed on to claimants who must phone every week for updates. Pure speculation!
I think you may well be right.
That’s what providers do – just create an account for you on their “in house” jobsite and hand you the log-in details. Maybe JCP has the same thing in mind: “Here are your Universal Jobmatch log-in details.”
The Internet Access Devices will probably be thin clients connected over the internet to the DWP and Monster servers: these boxes probably won’t have much onboard memory or any storage devices like hard disks, which means the only way you’ll be able to download stuff (like application forms) is to a USB flash drive that you will have to provide. Now, because almost all of the computer power you have will be provided by a remote heavily fire-walled and buttoned-up computer with, quite possibly, thousands of other users competing for its resources with you at the same time, the thin units will almost certainly be pitifully slow to use and also suffer repeated disconnections from the remote server (or server cluster) which provides most of their computing power, which will properly fuck up your ability to browse any website.
Universal Jobmatch is going to be an absolute shit experience using such equipment I promise you, but Universal Credit will be impossible and is as far as I can see already dead in the water even as I type these words.
They are indeed micro devices attached to the post that holds up an overly large screen, and are connected wirelessly to something local.
I would imagine the defences slow them down greatly.
I would love one of those monitors!
Expect a lot of downtime on these things. We had em at college and it was 10%
They can kiss me arse.
Let them haul me in every day to get me to use one of their computers. They have to pay me my travellin’ expenses for every day isn’t a signin’ day 😉
And if I’m there all day, I’ll be askin’ about me lunch expenses too.
The total knobends STILL don’t realise it’ll cost them a bastard fortune by doin’ so.
PS. Where’s our friend Bobchewie today???
He must be off with the other wookies.
Getting ready for Universal Jobmatch me thinks… 🙂
Shall we send out a search party… ? 🙂
Is’nt it about time we had a new sitcom like ‘shelley’ that revolves around the job centre, perhaps it could be called ‘helley’. Anyone any other names or what it should be included in sketches?
There already has been… well, at least a pilot episode, didn’t Ricky Geravis do something? Called Derek or something?
That’s set in an old folks home. The series is currently airing, by the way.
I can’t see it somehow. I mean while I can imagine IDS will try. I’m sure he’s more aware, due to recent experience in court, that legal eyes are fixed on his “policies”.
I fill in the booklet and include in writing anything I applied for through UJM. They tried to tell me I will need to bring in printed-out evidence because I wouldn’t provide my email address, I asked whether that was mandatory yet and the guy started waffling into his shirt about “emails are going round…”. I said I’d consider it when it could be mandated.
They asked for my CV, I made one specially for them with a different email address on it than the one i used to register my UJM account. When I handed it to my advisor, I said “here, I’ll allow you to keep a copy of this,” – she tried to enter it into the UJM box on her screen when I wasn’t looking! She asked whether the email address on the CV provided was my UJM one. I said “No, and I’m not divulging it, I have agreed to use this service anonymously,” – I then produce my Jobseekers agreement which indeed has the “anonymous” caveat (you can add quite a few caveats if you’re up for a bit of back-and-forth with your advisor). I said “will I be sanctioned if I don’t provide it?” and she replied in the negative, and dropped the issue.
She then said she would pass on my CV to the woman who ‘matches’ people to jobs, who might call me with suggestions. I advised that I had not agreed to give the Jobcentre permission to use my CV in such a way, and that it would only be up for discussion if I found myself struggling with my own personal jobsearch efforts. I took this point to request a note be added to my file to inform people that I don’t want to be lied to about UJM, as other advisors had blatantly done so and it was beginning to cause distress.
I’m just left to it now, filling out the paperwork like in the old days, scanning UJM now and then and documenting in writing what I do. They don’t have any way to view it.
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I have a government gateway account which i set up a few weeks ago but have not yet completed a profile or logged on to use the site.
I had a somewhat heated argument with my Jobcentre Advisor the last time i signed on, previous meetings were very cordial but it seems these advisors are being pushed or maybe even given some sort of financial incentive in order to get people to sign up to UJM.
I was only there to get my Jobseekers Agreement updated but i knew it wasn’t going to be that straightforward, My advisor was being way too nice to me which instantly aroused my suspicions, (you know when a woman wants something and will do anything in order to get it) well, i wasn’t falling for that one.
I was just sat there, mind wandering, waiting patiently for her to deliver the final sting in the tail, and hey presto!
Her: “Oh by the way, have you signed up to UJM yet”?
Me: No,
Her: Why not?
Me: Because i am already signed up to dozens of agencies which do a better job than UJM.
Her: but according to your previous agreement you have already been using the directgov website to apply for jobs.
Me: yes, but the old site didn’t require you to register and it was miles easier to complete an extensive job search unlike the new site, and i can still use the new site to apply for some jobs anyway so i haven’t stopped using it completely.
Her: but you would have to register in order to apply for certain jobs, therefore, you are limiting your chances by not registering.
Me: it’s not my fault that i can’t apply for some jobs, you are limiting my chances of applying for those jobs by requiring me to register.
She was gradually becoming more and more annoyed, it never ceases to amaze me how a woman can go from being Jenny Agutter in the railway children to the possessed child in the Exorcist film in such a short period of time.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, she put on the aggreement that i would consider signing up to UJM and would leave it at that for now, but she had to have her final dig at me by saying that she could actually force me to sign up to it if she wanted to, but that she wouldn’t, hmm!
If i am forced by law to use UJM then i will comply, but if they want to snoop on me 24/7 then they can bloody well do it on there own computers.
looks like there fishing to get ppl to sign up to ujm as there is no law that states the dwp can make me join a 3rd party web site in another country and i block most cookies anyway so it would not work.anyway.
its like saying u can only shop at tesco if u sign this and we will monitor what u buy and give advice for healthier foods.
Wonder if the jobcentre will start issuing jobseekers with some locked down ipod/android with a universal jobmatch app running on it? Like an electronic ball and chain. But what if it got stolen/lost…………… 🙂
My dog ate my UJM machine.. 😉
My view is they will make it mandetory for everybody to make an account but they will not be able to force you to allow them access.
you could take screenshots of all the application activity pages over the fortnight period print them of staple them together and when you sign on hand them over just as you do the job diary therefore eliminating the need for an adviser to even look at your account.
If they want to give you a job to apply for they can access there standard UJ account and print the page for you to look at and apply for after you leave.
It would cost you a fortune in ink cartridges though….!
It also makes the whole “digital by default” idea rather silly, doesn’t it?
I thought we were like all supposed to be… you know man like… reducing you know like man… our carbon footprint…. and we are gonna have to… you know like man… chop down loads of trees… you know like man… and pollute the rivers making ink…. just to… you know like bring in reams of paper printed with… you know like… shit man… every time…. we like man… you know like… sign on man….
Can I have some of what you are smoking, Tree Hugger? 🙂
The Jobcentres have printers accessible from the internet access devices so you can use those if you really have to.
If they do have printers use them and you are mandated to used them. Print off Everything, and i mean Everything, get everyone to print off everything, each page you look at, every job you look at every job you applied for. 😉 print screen is your friend. Long time ago some clever person rigged up a computer to print off the same document 273 times, soon ran out of ink and over heated..
My view is they will make it mandetory for everybody to make an account
the work programme is mandatory and i have been on it from the start.
wanted induction done over the phone to which i said no.
went to provider at said date left sat in the training room till it was shut and sent home for another appointment.
next 1 lasted 20 mins and all the bs that goes with it and just handed over the wp letter n said read that.ill take part but will sign nothing with a 3rd party or enter it to a contract with the provider.
had 1 sanction which i won n thats it till this day they cant sanction me cos there is no contract with me and the provider.
I think it is a good idea to appeal every sanction to tribunal as a matter of course. If everyone did they would be creating huge work and expense for themselves, probably much more expense than they save in payments. I am sure sanctions they see as a means of cutting the deficit…rather than an aid to getting people into work..
So, look like you are totally complying with them, but alongside your applications for the tiny number of jobs that genuinely might be appropriate for you and not scams, apply for lots that you wouldn’t have a chance of doing or sound very fishy. Then, as suggested, screenshot all the applications, put the images/pdfs on a flash drive and chuck it at them saying you don’t have a printer. All in the interests of clogging up the system to the point they agree it is un-usable and scrap the whole idea.
Job Centre advisors are pig ignorant anyway – you can become an advisor with only GCSE’s. What right do they have to dictate to someone with years of experience in a highly technical role the advisors don’t remotely understand, what jobs are or are not appropriate or within the applicants ability to perform. And that is without considering any age or other restrictions (e.g. inability to get a clean CRB check, or Gov./MOD security clearance) that would prevent you doing a particular job.
Yes it is all very well to be politically correct and say that someone in a wheelchair can apply for a job that requires you to climb ladders if they wish to, but there has to be SOME level of common sense.
Oh no, sorry I made a mistake. This is the DWP/Gov. we are talking about. No commonsense anywhere to be found in IDS’s department. Luckily for them I am out of this loop now, having retired because I would tie them in knots on the illegality of all this. I’m just so sorry for those that have to endure it and will be browbeaten and possibly driven into mental health problems by the stress of it all,
DIE, DIE, DIE UNIVERSAL JOBMATCH YOU EVIL ORWELLIAN PIECE OF SHIT!!
We can expedite that death simply by all logging on at the same time everyday. As I suggested in an earlier post everyone log on at 9.00 am EVERY DAY! give it a try all of you! They are trying to grind us down! Let us try the same tactic. We have the numbers, we have the will, we have the determination, WE SHOULD now demonstrate our capability.
My curtains are still closed at 9AM, can you make it 5PM? I don’t open my curtains until Jeremy Kyle is on the telly and I’d like to drink a cheap 3 litre bottle of cider from Tesco before I have to deal with Universal Jobmatch. Cheers.
I am assuming your reply is satire, I am not aware of anyone who watches Jeremy Kyle, who has an IQ. As for the time I get up at it is at 5.00 am to take my loyal friend, a border collie called Zak, out for his exercise. Long before the scumbag politicians and councillors get up! I do not want him to chew on anything as unhealthy as vermin.
WORKHOUSE, do you not think it is time that you GREW UP, take responsibility, GET A JOB, you have a kid on the way!
I would be very surprised to have a kid on the way as, I am 51 My partner 52. As for growing up the ball is in your court for that one! Sorry if that Wee Wees on your obvious detritus!
I believe I owe you can apology Jeremy Vyle I reacted to quickly and did not recognise your true meaning. I am getting old after all.
Are the results of the DNA tests in yet? Or do we have to wait until after the Wonga ad break for that? 🙂
What a totally idiotic comment. He I’m sure will get a job (as all of us will) when the job is there.
52 is not too old,I knocked up my bird when she was 53 and the boy is strong!
Dole Scrounger. I hope you are watching Jremy Kyle on a 56″ flat screen TV otherwise I WILL be disappointed. BTW how are your eleven children? I hope you and them are well. Best wishes.
A lot of “Dole Scroungers” in my jobcentre (most actually) are formerly professional people nothing like the Jeremy Kyle stereotype used to demonize the unemployed. Many are in their 50’s seemingly on the scrap-heap. Not very nice to attack people who are in a position through no fault of their own although I suspect some of those ex-professionals now on the dole at one time had a downer on the unemployed too. They probably bought the “Jeremy Kyle” watching propaganda hook line and sinker and now are that person themselves,..what goes around comes around!
That’ why I never feel sorry for them; they are most likely receiving their comeuppance, some of them could even be ex-welfare-to-workfare/house “advisers”.
Don’t understand this.
Firstly you are making gross generalisations about people.
Secondly that is exactly the sort of attitude that is levelled at all benefits recipients by the press and government.
I am over 50.. So now, not only are the press and government saying I should get bugger all for being a scrounger but now fellow claimants are saying so too! Thanks. Like we need to be at each others throats right now about who is deserving help and who is deserving a comeuppance.
Yeah, let’s all link arms in SOLIDARITY with sanctioning bastard ex-poverty pimp and dwp workers; redundant coppers; thrown on the scrap heap bailiffs; redundant Daily Heil reading benefit-bashing ex-“professionals”. Once you SHIT in your FUCKING nest you have fucking SHAT on it. We ALL have to take responsibility for our actions and when the karma catches up with us (and it ALWAYS does) we have to face the consequences. ANYONE who has inflicted misery, destitution on a fellow human being by for a few pieces of silver, the sick pleasure or whatever warped reason DESERVES to BURN IN HELL!!
Nice.
What is it to you if they receive benefits they should be entitled to as much as you?
Good grief, do you really think that attitude is any better than a Daily Mail reader hating the fact that disabled people might actually get some financial assistance?
Reblogged this on HUMAN RIGHTS & POLITICAL JOURNAL.
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According to this one day old FOI request:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/139128/response/365011/attach/html/3/IR%2032%20Response.pdf.html
The DWP will disclose the legal basis under which members of the public can be mandated to use Universal Jobmatch. Here’s a quote:
“With reference to future intentions to mandate JSA claimants to register with Universal Jobmatch I can agree that it is completely appropriate for the public to know and understand the legal basis under which they can be mandated to use UJ. However, at this point in time we could only tell people the different options that could apply and are being considered. As this
would not clarify the eventual position until the decisions are made, but would rather create confusion, we would not consider it in the public interest to release potentially misleading information. The Department is not required to disclose this information because we believe that sections 35 and, where relevant, 42 of the Freedom of Information Act apply.”
Based on what I’ve read here I infer that Universal Jobmatch cannot be mandated until such time as the legal basis in respect to mandation has been made public. Since no such information has been forthcoming so far as far as I can see: NO ONE CAN BE MANDATED TO USE UNIVERSAL JOBMATCH AT THIS TIME!
It looks to me as if the DWP are working overtime to try to invent some legal basis to get around the Data Protection Act 1998 and force people to register for Universal Jobmatch against their will. The Department is basically making it up as they go along in typical half-arsed IDS fashion. The fact that they aren’t currently mandating EVERYBODY on Jobseeker’s Allowance to use UJ leads me to believe that the DWP are finding this task somewhat difficult if not impossible. I firmly believe that the DWP is trying to use the imagined threat of mandation/sanction as a Bogeyman to frighten claimants into signing up to Universal Jobmatch even though they don’t have to at the current time and may never have to if the Data Protection Act 1998 has primacy over the Coalition’s Welfare Act. (Which I think it does.) If Universal Jobmatch could be made compulsory why wasn’t it compulsory for all Jobseeker’s Allowance claimants from the start? Why haven’t Jobseeker’s Allowance claimants been sent letters stating that that they could be sanctioned if they refused to register for and use UJ? Why is there all this fogginess and doubt about claimants rights and legal oblications?
Something is amiss here.
“The Jobseeker’s Allowance (Schemes for Assisting Persons to Obtain Employment) Regulations 2013 (Universal Jobmatch Scheme Amendment) Regulations 2013
Section 1A
A “jobseeker” within the meaning of the Jobseeker’s Allowance Act 1995 (as amended by the Welfare Reform Act 2012) will be deemed to have given consent to the surrender of their personal data (as defined by the Data Protection Act 1998) for the purposes of the Universal Jobmatch Scheme.”
Bullshit!
Provide a link to that quote please.
Universal Jobmatch is not a “scheme”.
If this were true we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
6/10 for the wind-up. Not bad, must do better.
More like a Legal Beagle than a Legal Eagle.
The Home Page on Universal Jobmatch, today. . .
The Standards of Behaviour have been updated. Please confirm that you have read the Standards of Behaviour by selecting the box below.
1. This page (taken with the documents and pages it refers to) explains DWP’s expectations from those using the Universal Jobmatch website to look for job vacancies.
1.1 In this document, “Our”, “Us” or “We” means DWP.
1.2 This page was last updated on 01 March 2013.
2. Using the Universal Jobmatch website
2.1 We maintain the Universal Jobmatch website for your personal use.
2.2 We aim to update our site regularly, and may change the content at any time.
2.3 You should only use this site for lawful purposes, and in a manner that does not infringe the rights of, or restrict or inhibit the use and enjoyment of, this site by any third party.
2.4 You should not post or include any harmful or illegal material when using this site.
If you misuse this site we may:
– remove your Universal Jobmatch account from this site
– take other action to prevent misuse.
2.5 You should also not copy or re-sell any part of our site.
3. Online government services or transactions
3.1 When using the Universal Jobmatch website, you may access an online government service or transaction that is delivered by another government department or agency. Each of these services will have its own terms and conditions or end user licences that apply only to that service. Users of any service should make sure they have read the relevant terms and conditions before completing that transaction.
4. Links from the Universal Jobmatch website to other sites
4.1 Where our site contains links to other sites and resources provided by third parties, these links are provided for your information only. We have no control over the contents of those sites or resources, and accept no responsibility for them or for any loss or damage that may arise from your use of them.
5. Disclaimer
5.1 While we make every effort to keep the Universal Jobmatch website up to date, we don’t provide any guarantees, conditions or warranties as to the accuracy of the information on the site.
5.2 We don’t accept liability for loss or damage incurred by users of the website, whether direct, indirect or consequential, whether caused by tort, breach of contract or otherwise. This includes loss of:
– income or revenue
– business
– profits or contracts
– anticipated savings
– data
– goodwill
– tangible property
or wasted management or office time in connection with our site or in connection with the use, inability to use, or results of the use of our site, any websites linked to it and any materials posted on it. This condition shall not prevent claims for loss of or damage to your tangible property or any other claims for direct financial loss that are not excluded by any of the categories set out above.
5.3 This does not affect our liability for death or personal injury arising from our negligence, nor our liability for fraudulent misrepresentation or misrepresentation as to a fundamental matter, nor any other liability which cannot be excluded or limited under applicable law.
6. Governing law
6.1 Any disputes relating to or arising from the Universal Jobmatch website shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of England and Wales and shall be subject to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of England and Wales.
7. Information about you and your visits to the Universal Jobmatch website
7.1 You are responsible for the accuracy of your CV or any other information that you place on this site.
7.2 You should not be asked to reveal personal details such as bank account details, National Insurance number, date of birth, driving licence or utility bill information as these items are not relevant to an application process.
7.3 We process information about you in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
8. Virus protection
8.1 We make every effort to check and test material at all stages of production, however you must take your own precautions to ensure that the process which you employ for accessing this website does not expose you to the risk of viruses, malicious computer code or other forms of interference which may damage your own computer system.
8.2 We can’t accept any responsibility for any loss, disruption or damage to your data or your computer system which may occur whilst using material derived from this website.
9. Viruses, hacking and other offences
9.1 Our site must not be misused by knowingly introducing viruses, trojans, worms, logic bombs or other material which is malicious or technologically harmful. Attempts should not be made to gain unauthorised access to our site, the server on which our site is stored or any server, computer or database connected to our site. Our site must not be attacked via a denial-of-service attack or a distributed denial-of-service attack.
9.2 By acting contrary to the above, you would commit a criminal offence under the Computer Misuse Act 1990. We will report any such breach to the relevant law enforcement authorities and we will co-operate with those authorities by disclosing your identity to them.
10. Revisions to this Guidance
10.1 We may at any time revise this guidance without notice. Please check this guidance regularly.
* I have read the Universal Jobmatch Standards of Behaviour
“Standards of Behaviour”, that’s a bit Orwellian, sound like some sort of “electronic, virtual prison” :-), what happened to good old “Terms & Conditions”
From what I understand those of us who claim Carer’s allowance are in the future going to be “helped(!?)” , forced more like, back into work, so I have been dipping in & out of the UJ site. All I can say is that it’s crap. Typed a job option in – no results. No results for cleaning work?. The old JCP site was rubbish too but at least all you had to was pick up the phone & you could talk to an adviser. This pile of shite doesn’t even have that option.
What with the scams & fake dodgy-looking jobs there is no way I’m going to create an account, & if I should have to prove I’m looking for non-existant jobs & print-outs are required,I’ll just send the DWP a bill for printer ink!
But the DWP/Jobcentre take no liability if you get your identity stolen, Wonga loans taken out in your name, scammed; you absolve the DWP/Jobcentre of all responsibility and liability by accepting the “Standards of Behaviour” which you have to do before you can operate an account. It is completely and utterly ridiculous!
Precisely, and that’s just one of the arguments I’ll be using to refuse to sign up to this sanction’o’matic piece of shit.
Lucozade:
Here’s another:
8.2 We can’t accept any responsibility for any loss, disruption or damage to your data or your computer system which may occur whilst using material derived from this website.
And it is also blatantly obvious that the DWP/Jobcentre are expecting this site to give jobseekers all sorts of grief and hassle, but the DWP/Jobcentre have their backs well covered. When jobseekers are marching into their jobcentre to complain when this all goes tits up for them the counter jockeys will just sneer and say: “Well, you accepted the “Standards of Behaviour, didn’t you?”, “You CHOSE to sign-up to Universal Jobmatch, didn’t you”, “No, you told me it was MANDATORY you C*UNT”, *tap on the shoulder from a “customer care officer”*, “Do you mind leaving the Jobcentre Sir/Madam”.
I’ve been recording all my jobsearch activity on the UJ site since it was launched, as I figured if it was going to become mandatory I may as well get used to using it. (I still keep my own records on a spreadsheet separately as that format is a lot more useful for me.) I don’t think anyone who’s signed me on since has actually looked at my UJ activity even once. (Although I’ve overheard advisors on several occasions telling jobseekers that they ‘must’ sign up to UJ, which isn’t even true yet.) My overall impression seems to be that if you don’t sign up, it leads to all kinds of threats and hassle, but if you do sign up, they don’t even bother looking at how you’re using the site. So what’s the point of it? And how is it actually helping anyone. other than the scammers posting fake jobs in order to harvest personal information?
There’s a name for people like you Cliff…SHEEPLE!
Steady on Lucozade, it’s divisive to call people “sheeple”. I too have registered with the Uinversal Jobshat website, what seems like ages ago, and no one has ever once checked on my usage or has ever mentioned it. I don’t even use it. I tried it out at the beginning but it is just a waste of time, and now it doesn’t even let me log on. I get an email once a fortnight saying here are the latest vacancies that match your criteria, but when I look at them I always find that NONE of the vacancies “match my criteria”, not one! And every time this happens I immediately send them an email saying “thanks but none of the vacancies match my criteria” (send to universal.jobmatchgg@dwp.gsi.gov.uk ). I do my jobsearch on other websites such as CV LIbrary (click – apply, click- apply ……) and write down the jobs I’ve applied for on the job-log form that the Work Coach gave me. If anyone in Jobcentre asks (which is never) I can show them the form, and if anyone wants to see proof I have all the email replies saved, but so far no one has asked.
The point is that eventually sanctioning itself is supposed to be automated. Universal Jobmatch will send you whatever job it thinks you can do within (what it thinks is) within a 90 minute journey from your home and sanction you if you fail to apply for it. If you don’t hop to and do what the machine says you must do the machine will sanction you, it won’t be necessary for a human Jobcentre advisor to inspect what you’ve been up to or been doing.
Really scarey shit.
Don’t know how true this is but I remember reading somewhere that you can’t be penalised electronically, (not just benefits, anything) there has to be a human decision maker in the process.
I think Jim is correct that automating the monitoring and sanctioning of claimants is what this is really all about. It is a chilling prospect.
If the UJM matches a claimant to a job and then automatically sanctions them because they did not click on the apply for job button because they felt it wasn’t a suitable job for them to apply for, couldn’t the DWP organise it, that the sanction is then sent to a human decision maker, who then logs into the UJM system, checks to see whether the system correctly matched the claimant to a job deemed suitable under the conditions set by the DWP and can then decide to uphold the decision made by the system?
Wouldn’t that satisfy the requirement for a human decision maker to be involved in the process?
Agreed, the system highlights the infringement, then the Decision Maker rubber stamps it.
My JSAG was changed a month ago – I have to go on UJM and show I have been on UJM 5 times a week, also have to check job agency boards 4 times a week and use local newspapers 1 time a week.
And take in print outs. (As not allowing dwp access).
Usually it goes 5 mile search – no jobs suitable (always comes up with electrcians and teacher jobs).
10 mile search – no jobs suitable (mainly turns up teacher and engineer jobs)
20 mile search (admin/helpdesk/call centre skills) – jobs are not in search area or need full driving licence (as 20 miles seems to be anything from 20 miles to 600 miles).
I think I have found 2 jobs I can apply for and both of those said no in the end 😦
Why did you agree to do so much jobseeking on your agreement?
I signed up weeks ago but advisor didnt notice he couldnt access it till this week. He said mandatory from 4/3, and i thought I bet it isnt!
I reckon you’ve got it spot on Babs. The ongoing legal hurdle must be mandating someone to “volunteer” in respects of acknowledging and accepting damages incurred due to security threats on UJ.
IDS will attempt to implement strategies irrespective of illegality but he will fail. The DWP is either going to have to compensate damages, of which there will be many, or give up on mandation, or improve the service.
If they were really serious about supporting the unemployed, naturally they would do all three.
The thing that still confuses me in regards to potentially mandating UJ is surely it makes the work programme redundant. I mean, I know it already is a colossal failure, but surely if employers can advertise on UJ for free and people are automatically made aware of every vacancy, then there’s no need for additional support. Especially when ‘support’ is basically improving effective jobsearch methods.
“All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace”
http://welfareuk.wordpress.com/2013/03/01/keep-calm-and-carry-on-the-dwp-version/
Reblogged this on paul8ar and commented:
…for JSA claimants alone there is just one computer available for every 700 people.
“9.1 Our site must not be misused by knowingly introducing viruses, trojans, worms, logic bombs or other material which is malicious or technologically harmful.”
Fair enough, they said the phrase “knowingly”
But this shit below could be beyond your control or knowledge
http://www.cisco.com/web/about/ac123/ac147/archived_issues/ipj_7-4/dos_attacks.html
“Our site must not be attacked via a denial-of-service attack or a distributed denial-of-service attack”
“9.2 By acting contrary to the above, you would commit a criminal offence under the Computer Misuse Act 1990. We will report any such breach to the relevant law enforcement authorities and we will co-operate with those authorities by disclosing your identity to them.”
AKA we’ll send your IP to the relevant law enforcement authorities and it’s down to you to prove you were unaware a botnet was operating on your PC
“Our site must not be attacked via a denial-of-service attack or a distributed denial-of-service attack”
Oh, ok then, I suppose if we mustn’t then we mustn’t
They might as well just post an open invitation for Anonymous to attack them 🙂
They all ready did!
Importantly, that clause does not rule out Workhouse’s idea that we all login to the site at a pre-determined time, as there would be no botnet, bot or whatever operating our computers.
Conspiracy would have to be proved, but that would be almost impossible, and also, the numbers of people involved (assuming people did involve themselves in sufficient numbers to be effective) would make for an interesting scenario – just how would the authorities go about prosecuting people? The traditional, and orthodox method of trying to ‘cut off the head’ by prosecuting the leaders would fail, as there would be no leaders.
Ultimately it could lead to farcical attempts to criminalise spontaneity – which could be fun… imaging, Tory MPs being prosecuting for just happening to turn up at a predetermined time to debate an issue in the House of Commons!
This is, of course, an absurdist scenario, but isn’t our society becoming increasingly absurd?
On a more serious note, (promo here) we DO need to start thinking for when the inevitable happens and we find ourselves in the same situation as most ordinary Greeks find themselves – so who better to learn from:
http://www.viome.org/
and Spain too offers some interesting ideas:
http://www.cnt.es/en/node
We CAN have the better society we want, but we’ll have to do it ourselves and not leave it to the usual suspects, who will only cock it up because that’s what the system makes them do. Life is possible without JSA, as the experience of the Greeks and Spanish proves. It may not be ‘right’ or ‘just’ for governments to oppress citizens, but that is ultimately what governments do… the answer is to get rid of government, and it’s cling-ons before it gets rid of us.
Why not set up spontaneous people’s assemblies, even if only for the sheer fun of it? A great opportunity to poke fun at local politicians, and could maybe generate a few sound ideas. Know of any local debating chambers that are redundant, or virtually unused, or even not serving any useful purpose, which would include all government debating spaces from your local parish hall to the House of Lords… take them over. They do, after all ultimately belong to those who pay for them, us.
”AKA we’ll send your IP to the relevant law enforcement authorities and it’s down to you to prove you were unaware a botnet was operating on your PC”
That’s not how how the law works in this country. You wouldn’t have to prove that you didn’t know a botnet was operating on your PC, they would have to prove that you DID know. You don’t have to prove your innocence….they have to prove your guilt!
Pingback: Universal Jobsmatch allegedly mandatory from 4 March? | Universal Job Mismatch
but its just junk !!! i tried it out using my mobile phone and it threw up stupid crap and useless jobs and errors…’weather forecaster’ and ‘weapons technician’ ???
Cookies Legislation
Currently, EU cookie legislation prevents mandatory sign up requiring customers to use their home computers to register for, or use UJ. This is because the choice to accept cookies on your computer has to be made ‘freely’, under the EU legislation. This means that if an FLA seeks to mandate a claimant to register on UJ, they will need to look at alternative methods of doing so – Internet Access Device (IAD) within a jobcentre, use of computer in local library, etc. Management refer to this as their ‘tactical solution’. PCS have raised doubts that there are sufficient resources within Jobcentres to enable this to be a realistic workaround.
However, the UJ project has indicated that they are seeking to make changes to the UJ site which will provide an option to remove the cookies from home computers. When these changes are made, FLAs will be able to mandate customers to sign up from home. This is what management are calling the ‘strategic’ solution, but they are unable to say when this ‘fix’ will be implemented.
Access to UJ Account
If, and when, a claimant signs up to UJ, they will be encouraged to give DWP access to their account. However, it is absolutely clear from a legal perspective that the claimant does not have to tick the box to give DWP access to their account, and can provide alternative proof of UJ sign up and use, e.g. screenprints
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/department_for_work_and_pensions_group/dwp-news.cfm/id/7CB27121-96CB-4363-944EBA40616465A4
but the monster jobs site ie the ones who created it even their site was exposed on a fraud site !!!
“However, the UJ project has indicated that they are seeking to make changes to the UJ site which will provide an option to remove the cookies from home computers. When these changes are made, FLAs will be able to mandate customers to sign up from home.”
F##k that. If I’m being forced to do something, I sure as hell won’t be using my tools.
@HASNOT THERE ARE OTHER SITES THAT ARE VERY SIMILAR TO IT…OF WHICH I HAVE POSTED ON THIS BLOG.
PCS Union Update:
Department for Work and Pensions group
Mandating to Universal Jobmatch: Update
1 March 2013
Members will be aware of the many issues and questions arising from the introduction of Universal Jobmatch (UJ) on 19th November 2012, not least the legislation around the mandatory requirement for claimants, security implications, and use of cookies.
DWP/BB/07/13 provided members with an update on all of those issues. PCS officials met with the project team earlier this week in order to seek further clarity for our members who deliver the Front Line Adviser (FLA) service within Work Service Directorate (WSD).
Announcement:
The Secretary of State for DWP will make an announcement on 1st March 2013 that, with effect from 4th March 2013, FLAs can mandate claimants to register for UJ. This will be done via a Jobseeker Direction. Importantly, however, management have acknowledged that mandatory sign up to UJ will not be a blanket approach; instead, FLAs should encourage claimants to use UJ. Mandatory sign up will be on an individual basis, if the FLA feels that UJ would be beneficial to the claimant, and they have ‘unreasonably refused’. Management will be issuing guidance around this shortly.
Cookies Legislation:
Currently, EU cookie legislation prevents mandatory sign up requiring customers to use their home computers to register for, or use UJ. This is because the choice to accept cookies on your computer has to be made ‘freely’, under the EU legislation. This means that if an FLA seeks to mandate a claimant to register on UJ, they will need to look at alternative methods of doing so – Internet Access Device (IAD) within a jobcentre, use of computer in local library, etc. Management refer to this as their ‘tactical solution’. PCS have raised doubts that there are sufficient resources within Jobcentres to enable this to be a realistic workaround.
However, the UJ project has indicated that they are seeking to make changes to the UJ site which will provide an option to remove the cookies from home computers. When these changes are made, FLAs will be able to mandate customers to sign up from home. This is what management are calling the ‘strategic’ solution, but they are unable to say when this ‘fix’ will be implemented.
Access to UJ Account:
If, and when, a claimant signs up to UJ, they will be encouraged to give DWP access to their account. However, it is absolutely clear from a legal perspective that the claimant does not have to tick the box to give DWP access to their account, and can provide alternative proof of UJ sign up and use, e.g. screenprints
FLAs setting up UJ Accounts:
It has been brought to the attention of PCS that some District Managers are encouraging FLAs to set up their own UJ account and then take claimants for a ‘walkthrough’ of the system. PCS has challenged the security aspect of this process and, as a result, management centrally, have issued clear instructions that this practice must stop. PCS has received assurances centrally that any advisor, following what they believed to be a ‘reasonable management request’, will face no disciplinary action as a result of their actions.
Robustness of UJ Site:
PCS has raised serious concerns around the robustness of the UJ site. The UJ site has already attracted widespread media attention due to a number of rogue job adverts that have appeared and security concerns. Management have stated that they have increased the number of checks on the site to prevent ‘bogus’ adverts appearing, but are unable to offer any cast-iron guarantees that vacancies of this type will not appear in the future. PCS has also challenged management around employers offering jobs with salaries/wages below the national minimum wage level. Again, management state that they are constantly monitoring any misuse of the system. Although they admit that there a number of fixes to the site still to be made, for example around the geographical searches, management insist that the site popular and well used.
Summary:
The view of PCS is that Universal Jobmatch is nothing more than a crude tool being used by DWP management to help deliver this government’s ‘scorched earth’ approach to the welfare reform agenda. Disgracefully, it is PCS members who are at the forefront of criticism from claimants and welfare groups alike when failings of the system are highlighted across the national media. FLAs should follow the guidance and use their own discretion when mandating claimants to sign up to UJ, and resist any local targets or blanket approaches at a local level.
The working processes outlined within this circular are absolute and not subject to any “interpretation” by district managers. Any attempt to amend these processes under the banner of ‘Freedoms and Flexibilities’ should be escalated to the Group Office as a matter of urgency.
Downloadable version: 027 Mandating to Universal Jobmatch Update
obi wan,, i never realised what is going on until becomeing unemployed myself, sounds naive i know….. i take it the workslavefare is still active? i think lots of people are unaware, loseing sleep over it all,,, wish the guy speaking on u tube didnt look so sinister, i support what he had to say though, reminds me of the SAW films, if people start getting sanctioned for no reason real other than there are just not enough jobs to go around,and the gov just dont want to pay you,,, i think there will be riots on our streets, just like the days of the poll tax, i remember them well, the people need to protest now, it really concerns me ( and lots of others im sure, as i now know) what the gov are getting away with, im just a basic every day person with not much insight to it all, but am willing to do whats needed, as liveing on the dole for a year now, and unable to feed myself (my daughter helps me) the longer i am umemployed the harder it is to survive, and the thought that my beneifit may be cut because some bitch at the jc centre says im not trying hard enough to get a job, is really worrying, and beneifit cuts will just put me in dept with gas-ele-water bills, cos thats where most of my dole money goes.am single person, how im going to pay part of my council tax which starts April ,,,out of my benefits money???? i just dont know, and there are thousands in my position,,, any way sure u already know this ,,, hence the site. what the fuck is gona happen to people. i went looking for info about peoples rights , thats how come i found consent.me. thank god, thought i was alone with my worrys and concerns.
Forgot to include link.
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/department_for_work_and_pensions_group/dwp-news.cfm/id/7CB27121-96CB-4363-944EBA40616465A4
Thanks Obi Wan. This is very helpful. I have a Personal Adviser Interview the week after next. I think they’ll try and force me into signing up to UJ. Your link is just the ammunition I need to counter them.
PCS union still pandering to the whims of the government and still centrally involved in implementing this vile piece of garbage.
It will be interesting to see how PCS reacts when it’s own members are affected by the changes in legislation.
“Importantly, however, management have acknowledged that mandatory sign up to UJ will not be a blanket approach; instead, FLAs [Front Line Advisers] should encourage claimants to use UJ. Mandatory sign up will be on an individual basis, if the FLA feels that UJ would be beneficial to the claimant, and they have ‘unreasonably refused’. Management will be issuing guidance around this shortly.”
How does a person “reasonably” refuse? Could what one FLA considers unreasonable be considered by another to be reasonable? If many people without home computers are mandated to sign up to UJ it could create quite a logistics problem. Will they be mandated to attend Job Centres to use the service or will this work be contracted out to Work Programme Providers and Local Authorities? Soon DWP online target-driven sanctioning sections will be operating.
Reasonable would be:
If you have a consistantly good jobsearch record, recorded by advisers on their JCP computers – so everytime you sign on it will show up via your records on their system – you should be ok and won’t be asked to join UJM.
The people who are given a ‘Jobseekers Instruction’ to sign up to UJM will be the one’s who never show any or very little jobsearch proofs when they sign on.
@OBI WAN KENOBI..will that include people who are VERY ILL? who because of that disability the point of looking for work would sort of be pointless..there are very ill mentally ppl where i live i dont think anyone has looked for work because they are schizophrenic and all on meds..
Bobchewie – the JCP advisers and Work Programme Providers will have to take things like that into account but will be target driven as Jeff above say’s however they must use their own discretion when mandating claimants to sign up to UJ, and resist any local targets or blanket approaches at a local level.
@obi wan kenobi no disrespect to the residents but to be honest no one will employ them due to their disability..most of them dont know one end of a computer from another…
It’s DWP’s stated goal that 80% of all claimants will be signed up to Jobmatch by sometime next year (can’t remember the date).
The intention here is ultimately to have 100% sign up because this is an enabler to UC. NO-one will escape UJ mandation!
@LUCOZADE of course they want everyone signed up..its to pay up the dosh to the poverty pimps its not for our benefit..
“Mandatory sign up will be on an individual basis, if the FLA feels that UJ would be beneficial to the claimant, and they have ‘unreasonably refused’. Management will be issuing guidance around this shortly.”
In practice most advisers will likely make the registration part of your initial JSAa when you start your claim, you’ll have very little job search evidence to hand as you’ve just recently become unemployed so therefore in their eyes it’s much harder to prove to them that you don’t need their poxy site.
So what are we going to do about this? Whats our conclusion for our situation? What is our legal stance against the regime at the job center? How can we shut the UJM down?
@antix DONT USE IT…
I don’t and won’t, I created an account last year and left it at that. On my notes it says has not allowed access to UJM under the data protection act ha! I produce a writen jobsearch as i have always done but last week they told me i will have show them profe of my activities, I dont have a printer or a computer just a shitty smart phone and limited internet access. So your advice on that would be appreciated……
@ANTIX JUST KEEP NOTES AMD LOGS OF YOUR OWN ACTIVITY ON JOBSEARCHING..AND REFS TOO SO IF THEY NEED TO CHECK THEY CAN..BUT IF ENOUGH PPL VETO UJM THEN IT WILL SHOW ITS THE EXPENSIVE PILE OF CRAP IT IS..
Read the Jobmatch toolkit and all will become clear: http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/146137/response/365038/attach/4/Universal%20Jobmatch%20Toolkit.pdf
Lucozade:
Thats the old toolkit released before 19th November last year – disregard it. The latest one when released will be re-worded.
True, but it gives you a feel of what’s to come!
THGE UNIVERSAL CREDIT CAPITA SPEECH..
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/newsroom/ministers-speeches/2013/28-01-13.shtml
when does a govt speech become sponsored by a private company?
who is running the fucking country??
“Around 4.2 million DWP claimants already have a bank account. However, historically some people on a low income have experienced difficulties in accessing and using banking products, often coming up against disproportionate penalties charges.
For Universal Credit we want to ensure as a minimum that claimants have access to an account such as a Basic Bank Account with standing order and direct debit facilities, which are safe and secure.
Alongside new banking products we will ensure vulnerable claimants such as people with debt problems, or those with poor numeracy skills are given practical support at the onset of their claim.
In practice this will mean that someone with debts may be referred to a debt advisory service for budgeting advice and someone who is not able to navigate the web, will be offered face to face or telephone support to help them make a claim for Universal Credit.
These bespoke services will be led through Local Authorities and other local organisations. As a result we expect many vulnerable claimants to become both financially responsible and digitally able. This will open up a wealth of new opportunities because of improved computer skills, such as new jobs through online job searches, better buying power and discounted utility bills through better banking facilities and access to reputable credit.
These are the key interconnecting features that will ensure a smooth and successful transition onto Universal Credit.
However, we recognise that there will always be some hard cases. Where this is the case vulnerable claimants could be made an exception to the payment rules for a period of time. Budgeting support will also be made available to support these individuals so that they can make a successful transition over time to the Universal Credit ”
lord fraud…
Awesome thanks, the site is a load of crap and never got a job through it anyways. I start work at the end of march but untill then I’ve got to sign on three times so ill stick my ground. May the fight continue
“n practice this will mean that someone with debts may be referred to a debt advisory service for budgeting advice and someone who is not able to navigate the web, will be offered face to face or telephone support to help them make a claim for Universal Credit.
These bespoke services will be led through Local Authorities and other local organisations. As a result we expect many vulnerable claimants to become both financially responsible and digitally able. This will open up a wealth of new opportunities because of improved computer skills, such as new jobs through online job searches, better buying power and discounted utility bills through better banking facilities and access to reputable credit.”
YEAH THAT DEBT ADVISORY SERVICE WILL BE ..CAPITA….
@ANTIX I tried out the UJM on my mobile phone..it was a joke..weapons technician, weather forecaster…self employed that pays minimum wage???
leaflet deliverer…
Has there been one for: DWP Headslapper – there’s a job i would like to do and guess who I would pick on – IDS would get it bigtime, everyday all day!
FINANCIAL EXPLUSION REPORT..
Click to access Financialexclusionreview.pdf
ALLPAY AND JAMJAR ACCOUNTS…
http://www.allpay.net/news/allpay-continues-explore-jam-jar-accounts-ahead-universal-credit
allpay is the bill payment provider for each of the housing associations involved in the Government’s demonstration projects which are trialling the direct payment of housing benefit to tenants ahead of Universal Credit.
A range of allpay’s services are being used in the projects including its direct debit service and swipecards – allowing tenants to pay their rent at local PayPoint outlets and Post Office branches or online or over the phone.
Peplow said: “It has been somewhat of a learning curve to understand tenants’ preferred method of payment.
My sister recently got a job off UJM (unbeliveable!) at the interview the women said she would never advertise on UJM again as she was spammed with over 500 applicants that were totally unsuitable….As for signing up to UJM I have refused and email screenshots of what I have applied for and fill in the booklet, so far they are happy with this, and barely look at the screenshots anyway…
Ultimately that is what will become the system – it will soon become apparent that IDS’s crazed scheme for 35 hours jobsearch is not only ludicrous but unenforcable – there just aren’t enough workers at JCP offices to do more than cast a cursory glance over jobsearch logs and screenshots. So long as we fill our quotas and meet our targets, which in turn allows our JCP advisors to fill their quotas and reach targets – for most, advisors, the ones that aren’t complete bastards, ‘playing the game’ is sufficient. They are well aware that there is a scarcity of jobs, and if you do your bit and treat them with respect for the most part you will have no problems. That is not to say that you should accept bullshit, like signing up to UJM is ‘mandatory’ but challenging them civilly with reasoned argument, backed up by evidence from consent.me rather than a mouthful of accusative profanities directed at their parentage.
It is not 35 hour jobsearching, it is 35 hour job related activity.
That means job searching, being forced to work 8 hours a week in a charity shop (or what ever other workfare scheme is in your area), visiting employers and also training and college courses.
It will be monitored as well.
it is on the consentme site and has various examples they can implement.
That’s where Universal Jobmatch comes in as part of the Universal Credit system. UJM logs everything you do when you’re logged in: when you logged in, how long you were logged in for, what jobs you looked at, what jobs you applied for, what jobs you refused, jobs you ignored that UJM sent to you to apply for and so on and so forth. The system will then calculate whether or not you’ve made a big enough effort that particular week and either pay your benefits, pay some of your benefits minus reductions for not exerting yourself enough, or stopping your benefits automatically. Real Jobcentre staff will be superfluous and will only remain to deal with appeals against UJM sanctions – of which there will be many. People will end up having their incomes stopped for petty reasons by the machine. It really looks set to be catastrophic.
I thought they said there was 700k job seekers searching 5 million jobs a week on UJM??
More lies?
And the “decisions” will all be made on the say so of a “secret” “algorithm, an adaptive “algorithm” that will constantly adjust to santion as many jobseekers as possible, jobcentre/dwp will argue that it isn’t in the “public interest” to reveal the exact mechanism as doing so would open the system to “abuse” from “lazy, work-shy scroungers”. All done with no comeback or right of appeal since computers don’t make mistakes!
Would an algorithm be similar to a logarithm? Had ‘issues’ with these before but thought I’d managed to leave them far behind …
If anyone can show the exact formula to use to avoid the algorithm sanctioning process they should immediately be awarded the Nobel Prize for Mathematics and call in to Mr I.D.S’s office, at once to be presented with their prize.
Meanwhile, is the correct answer 42?
my dear shiryleynott thats the whole problem with atos,workfare,ujm,capita social fund…this digital by default cant handle real life with complexities..
@COMPUTER SAYS NO I posted a link to a site that will be handling the social fund..their system has a RULES ENGINE…clver that saldy its doesnt take into account this thing called life…that messy complex thing thing..
@JIM “”Universal Jobmatch has already proved a big success in getting people get off benefits and into work, and people are flocking to use it. ”
THAT MUST BE A TYPO..IT SHOULD READ PEOPLE ARE FUCKING SICK OF IT..
No doubt the Nazis would claim that Jewish people flocked to Concentration Camps, which was true, but only because the “flocking” happened involuntarily and was forced.
@JIM ITS A FLOCKING MESS
I think if all employers did that UJM will defo fail.
maybe it is best if everyone applies for all jobs in there area even if they cannot do them skills wise.
Yes, apply for every job on the system with a crap c.v. and three hundred word covering letter. If everybody did that for a while, the system would become unusable to employers. Imagine having to go thru 5 THOUSAND applications?
The Tories will probably offer companies oodles of hardworking taxpayers’s money as a financial incentive to put themselves on the UJM system and stay on it and offer them big tax breaks and shovel the money they gain through the mass sanctioning of claimant’s benefits to companies to recompense them for the inconvenience of having to sift through thousands of applications.
Money is no object for the Tories when it is provided by the cattle (taxpayer/benefit claimant) and spent on humiliating the poor and reducing them to penury.
has the UJM maintenence finished yet?
Anyone checked the site to see if has any crazy new rules added?
Bobchewie
“who will employ the residents”
More generally, would it not make economic sense for the Providers’ little helpers (sub-contractors) to create minimum-wage jobs lasting up to 6 months for Work Programme victims so that sustained outcome payments of up to £14,000 could be claimed? Local authorities and councils that are sub-contractors could do this. The sums claimable for fit folk are less, but replacing employees with WP victims is already with us.
@JEFF actually Jeff to be honest they are all unemployable ….no one will take them on as they are too ill….by the way i am looking at this IEG4 run social fund site….social fund online..yeaj they are connected to capita but this RULES ENGINE..idea..that digital by default crap…what do you think?
http://www.ieg4.com/social-fund-online/
“What having our Intelligent Rules Engine means
As citizens can be told when they do not meet the basic requirements of the application, it means that unnecessary administration of non qualifying claims is prevented; with the associated costs of managing these applications removed too.
Decisions are decided consistently as they are based upon standard rules set by administrators – so accuracy is optimal and the cases where discretion is need is automatically controlled as well.
Being able to change the qualifying rules makes it easier to plan if you are using our reporting tools and notice that you are likely to overspend your budget before the end of the financial year. You can thus change the rules to make it more difficult (in principle) for people to get assistance. That is to say, those in the direst circumstances are assisted first.”
“You can thus change the rules to make it more difficult (in principle) for people to get assistance.”…WTF??
That is to say, those in the direst circumstances are assisted first.”
WEIRD THING TO SAY..
What they’re saying is, if they are likely to overspend their budget they can make it harder for the neediest get helped first 9while they still have a budget to help them0 and the less needy get given the runaround in the hope of not paying them at all. The crooks don’t even bother to hide the fact they’re on the rob any more!
I meant easier where I said harder – why isn’t there an edit facility!
UNIVERSAL JOB MATCH BUSNESS LINK…HOW TO CREATE AN ACCOUNT..
Click to access create_account_help.pdf
Yeah, Bob, but you can’t cover your tracks logging in to an “employer” account! “They” will be able to track you down!
@TRACKER SO HO0W COME ALL THOSE PHONEY JOBS APPEARED THEN????
The log-on for Universal Jobmatch use (Microsoft SAML2 (Secure Assertion Markup Language) for validation, but it is stricter for “employee” accounts than it is for jobseeker accounts. i.e if you try and hide your ass you wont be able to log-in to an “employer” account but you can log-in to a jobseeker account whilst hiding your ass. This can only mean that when the DWP say that they do not know and have no means of tracking down who is responsible for posting bogus job adverts they are LYING, since the log-on procedure for “employers” is intended to bar those trying to conceal their identity. Something fishy going on all right, Bob!
Yeah, they’re really going to chase scammers down from China, Africa, Russia and East Europe. Just how much power do you think the DWP has? As if they give a shit anyway!
Now you have created your UJM account you can easily post crap and phoney jobs..
Click to access create_account_help.pdf
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ico_universal_job_match_3?unfold=1
http://www.w2wsolutions.co.uk/news-article/universal-jobmatch-goes-live/443
“Employers who register for the Universal Jobmatch service are able to:
* post jobs online
* access a list of suitable jobseekers using the service, automatically matched by CV and skills
* review the matched jobseekers and select those they want to apply
For those individuals who are concerned about employers having access to lots of personal information, this is not going to be the case. Any CV the jobseeker uploads needs to be made public for an employer to see it. Private CVs are not searchable. Personal information will not be shared with an employer until the jobseeker responds to them via a personal message in their UJ account.
In support of the transparency agenda, you will find public reports available regarding Universal Jobmatch. The reports cover such subjects as the number of new jobseeker accounts, new CVs uploaded, number of employers, number of live jobs etc. These reports can be accessed by anyone using the link at the bottom of the UJ log in screen.
DWP have produced a quick guide and Q&A document relating to UJ. Anyone supporting jobseekers into employment should familiarise themselves with the system to help their clients get the best out of it. UJ is actually not easy to find on the new gov.uk website so the links are as follows:
“For those individuals who are concerned about employers having access to lots of personal information, this is not going to be the case”
OH HA HA HA……
I THOUGHT IT LOOKED FAMILIAR…….
UJ is very similar to aspects of software systems already being successfully used by Work Programme providers, such as Kaonix Welfare2Work system and MyWorkSearch, which have proved very successful. These commercial systems not only search JCP’s job database but also a massive range of other jobsearch sites to provide a one-stop-shop of vacancies, streamlining the jobsearch experience and ensuring jobseekers spend more time in applying for jobs than in seeking out vacancies. These systems can also be tailored to individual company needs, so if you are in the business of supporting jobseekers into work then check them out. For information on these systems visit:
http://www.kaonix.com and http://www.myworksearch.co.uk
There’s an e-petition to scrap univeral jobmatch. Spread the word everybody.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/42705
IS THE WORK PROGRAM AND UJM RELATED THEN?
Scarewcrow – brilliant – I just signed this e-petition, I seriously recommend everyone else does – let’s bring this bloody UJM down – bigstyle.
The count on this epetition has gone up to 253
LORD FRAUD says (on UC) ” But I know there is some concern that the switch may cause a ‘mass’ of claimants to fall into arrears at the onset. But that’s not going to be the case. The fact is that claimant transition will be gradual over a four year period. There will be no big bang effect and we do not expect landlords to suffer sudden losses of income.”
no poor things we dont want that do we? those poor hard up landlords..
” “We have had some feedback from one of our customers we referred to your service. He says that it is the best thing the jobcentre has done for him and is really pleased with the internet site. Just thought I would let you know.”
Jobcentre Plus Adviser, Midlands
http://www.myworksearch.co.uk/testimonials
There are always the seriously deluded…
I have happily managed to find a position and feel that MyWorkSearch helped me as it crystallised my way of
searching and I made great use of the job search boards etc. I would certainly recommend your company to
people who are looking for work and should I be unfortunate again to be in the jobs market, would definitely use
your company again.
Ken Pratt
LOL !!!!!
I think Uinversal Jobmatch is really great, it saves me having to bring my jobsearch record into the jobcentre with me as I can keep a record of ALL my jobsearch activity in one place, I can apply for jobs 24/7, create and upload a CV, receive email alerts when new jobs are posted My advisor can look at my CV and identify skills gaps I have and identify further training if needed and best of all it’s FREE*!! 🙂
Very Happy Univeral Jobmatch User 🙂
*normal internet usage service may apply
According to HSBC you are the prefect candidate for a particular kind of job.
http://welfareuk.wordpress.com/2013/02/26/the-threat-to-the-british-economy-by-job-seekers-and-students/
If you need an ‘advisor’ (quals ; gcse’s) to identify your
‘skills gaps’ then perhaps you ARE the sort of person they can help find a suitable job. Like khazi cleaner at McDonalds , shaftesbury avenue branch. You must be even stupider than They are.
“best of all it’s free” ….you can’t be serious! No one would pay to use that pile of rubbish. Why oh why do they try to fix things that aren’t broken? The old site was miles better. I cannot even get to page 2 on this mess.
@JOHN DEVON..Notes to Editors:
1. Universal Jobmatch was launched last year.
2. It is open to all jobseekers, regardless of whether or not they are claiming a benefit.
3. The service is free to use for employers as well as jobseekers. More than 460,000 employers have already registered to use it.
4. All the data that jobseekers and employers enter onto Universal Jobmatch will be covered under the Data Protection Act.
5. The website was designed using technology developed by Monster.com
6. From March 1 Jobcentre advisers can require Jobseekers Allowance claimants to use the site through a Jobseeker Direction. If they refuse to comply, they can be recommended for a benefit sanction. A decision-maker takes the final decision over whether benefit should be removed.
bobchewie
I see that there is an “intelligent easy to use online application form” too. Does it solve quadratic equations!
One selling point is that “a lot” of the work can be managed by Citizen’s Advice Bureaux. Another is that local authorities who demand Credit Reference Agency checks can have them.
One category of help available is: “I have had a disastrous house fire, gas explosion or flooding and need assistance”. The accompanying picture emphasises the “disastrous” element. What if a person’s cooker blows up and they still have the house?
In the screen shot for “Claire McMahon” under the heading “Components Applied For” it shows the figure of “£0” beside a bed, a wardrobe and an armchair. I do not understand why a person would be “Awaiting Payment Collection” or “Awaiting Eligibility Decision” based on the figure of £0.
@jeff yes that system has RULES ENGINE..i noted that it was full of presumption ..eg MS JONES moves in with MR SMITH therefore she wont need an extra bed..really?? a lot of people have a extra bed in case the original one splits…or they have a guess…thats the problem with RULES ENGINES..like often breal those ‘rules’…
Wonder if is too late to apply for this job on UJM?
Claims in Respect of Other Surveillance:
In respect of all these types of potential interferences with your private life by the state or state agencies (public authorities) there will be a requirement that they must satisfy the requirements of Article 8, that is, any interference is in accordance with the law, for a legitimate objective, and proportionate.
In respect of interference with your private life by private individuals of the types mentioned above, the developing law of breach of confidence could well provide further protection. You may be able to stop distribution of recordings of conversations or events in a public place if it is apparent that the conversation was confidential. The publication of photographs of private acts, obtained for example by a telephoto lens, may be restrained through the breach of confidence doctrine or through claims under the DPA. Even filming of a person or a company’s operations in a public place where the public has free access may amount to an interference with privacy, which could be restrained under the law using Article 8 of the Convention. If you think you have been the subject of surveillance of any type, and you consider that this has breached your privacy, then you may want to take further advice in the light of the latest developments.
I hate JObmatch. The site is a mess. Wading through such disorganised bollocks is not helpful. Who signed off on this eyewatering clusterfuck? No doubt it was the hand of that well known experienced welfare expert, David Fraud. I long to see the day when that cunt is kicked out of the Lords and handed a bill for all the misery he’s caused. This site helps noone, and all this legal stuff (or illegal stuff as the case may be) just confuses the hell out of me. For people with conditions like ADD, nebver mind more severe learning disabilities, autistic spectrum issues or neurodiverse conditions, it’s a fucking nightmare!
Something else Fraud has ignored.
The terms and conditions of the UJM state:
“Our site must not be attacked via a denial-of-service attack or a distributed denial-of-service attack”
Maybe its my sense of humour but there is something comical in the delusions of grandeur they have that they think they have absolute control over not just Job Seekers but the whole world. “We command this so everyone must obey us.” Demented.
Yes John.Its the attitude of the whole claims system.
You WILL DO AS WE SAY.
They believe that somebody considering sabotaging there computer
system would be put off by the empty threat of not being able to use the site, or the threat of being nicked. If _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ get there way and crash the system with a few thousand spambots from all around the world, who’s benefit are they going to sanction? Idiotic impotent little hitler’s, .
Many of the jobs on that site just like the on line site before are posted just to comply with the law, they are already filled, or require previous experience and IMHO the DWP/JCP alter that to no experience required making applying a waste of time.
Jim is right , it’s about automating sanctions, all the reasons for not applying for particular jobs on the drop down menu will get u sanctioned. So far have avoided all this shite but have got the feeling will be mandated soon. I agree with the everyone logging on simultaneously idea, that sounds fun, you could also provide them with a dumbed down CV mis-spelt covering letters etc.I know a couple of employers and they are both seriously fucked off with all the blag applications they are getting from people who are obviously unsuitable or don’t really want the job.
you do not have to use the drop down menu at all.
I never do
That is the problem UJM is causing more problems for people who want a job as employers are getting pissed off with it.
Maybe that is the secret plan? – The government knows it will piss off employers, they pull out – so now what is going to happen? The scroungers have won – daily mail/express/the sun/torygraph will go into benefit hating meltdowns.
Until the government says you know what workfare was not so bad was it ? – free labour and public actually supporting it.
Bring on board all the companies that said they were pulling out of the workfare schemes.
Make it compulsary to do 12 months workfare, class each person who does it as employed, unemployment stats go down drastically. Anyone that complains is classed as a huge scrounger and should have benefits stopped.
Sounds far fetched??
I bet it is a plan up there sleeves.
But it wont stop at 12 months. It will be endless. To get your bens you will have to work permanently. Min wage jobs will vanish and it will all be done for benefits. The councils and agencies will stop hiring, and all low end jobs will be workfare. No taxes will be paid and the rich will rape the exchequer again,The country will be even poorer.
And yet still these employers you know use UJ.
This generally indicates an employer who is dragging the bottom of the lake, personnel remuneration wise,then complains about a net full of
old boots instead of a juicy trout. . If the wages are just no advert is needed.
Number of active jobseekers
Date: 01-Mar-2013 (Fri)
Jobseeker: All Jobseekers
Geography: All Geographies
——> 144,731 <——–
https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/Reports/Reports.aspx
seems like despite all the bullying and effort pushing this UJ shit, they aren't getting very far with it 🙂
claimant
I’m surprised employers even read cv’s and application letters.
anyone seen any changes from yesterdays ‘upgrade’?
Argh forgot i have work programme at 11am 😦 no doubt this farce will pop up!
Mine is at 11.30am tuesday.
I never use UJM at the work programme and have never been pulled up about it.
I dont either its been mentioned once but she walked off straight away so i will be playing dumb if it comes up today
The reporting stats are interesting.
206,000 Active Job Seekers
56,500 Active employers
11,200 Active jobs
These were as of 3rd march 2013
Not really working out is it???
@dzwasp yes its not working thats why we need a work program..that way it will not make sense all the more..
The figures illustrate one thing:
http://welfareuk.wordpress.com/2013/03/03/lack-of-jobs-and-the-work-programme/
Shows that they are not interested in getting the unemployed into work 😦
All they seem to care about is there idealogical idea that anyone who is unemployed is scum and must be punished to please right wing voters.
Eventually a tipping point will occur as people wake up and find out where the millions/billions have been wasted.
Pingback: Universal Jobmatch – The Brutal Farce at the DWP Continues | the void
Universal Jobmatch – Privacy Policy – Update
Privacy policy as of March 1st 2013
http://consent.me.uk/universaljobmatch/privacypolicy/
Universal Jobmatch – DWP – Update:
4 March 2013 – Jobseekers required to use Universal Jobmatch.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/newsroom/press-releases/2013/mar-2013/dwp030-13.shtml
I think we need to use the reporting tool to show that it is not working.
Actually that is probably the best way of getting UJM changed, use there own tools against them.
Note nothing specific about allowing dwp access. Although they could push it under point 4.
Oh no they can’t – I refer to the PCS Union release on UJM from 1st March 2013 – here’s the section on allowing DWP access to UJM Accounts:
Access to UJ Account
If, and when, a claimant signs up to UJ, they will be encouraged to give DWP access to their account. However, it is absolutely clear from a legal perspective that the claimant does not have to tick the box to give DWP access to their account, and can provide alternative proof of UJ sign up and use, e.g. screenprints.
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/department_for_work_and_pensions_group/dwp-news.cfm/id/7CB27121-96CB-4363-944EBA40616465A4
@OBI WAN KENOBI…Universal JobMatch – Worst Job Board Launch Ever?
http://www.recruiterfocus.co.uk/2013/01/10/universal-jobmatch-worst-job-board-launch-ever/
point 3 seems to be way off.
by about 400k
PCS union has voted for strike action over pay.
Which will include JCP advisers – should be fun at the Jobcentre then!
Is mark hoban insane or deluded by his own lies and spin? :
“Jobseekers who are serious about looking for work will get all the support they need from us. But in return for receiving Jobseekers Allowance they must prove they are doing everything they can to find a job.
“Universal Jobmatch has already proved a big success in getting people get off benefits and into work, and people are flocking to use it.
“If someone refuses to use a service that already has 460,000 employers posting jobs, you have to ask why – which is why we are now saying claimants must use it.”
@all i can say about hoban is that he is a fuckwit..
now what is the correct figure of employers useing ujm 460,000 or 56,500? please advise
@everyday women its probably 9 and the bloke down the road ad his dog..
bobchewie
ha ha , would really like to know, nothing worse than quoting crap to relevent persons.
@everyday women i did post a link to one of my earlier blogs on here if anyone is interested…..
bobchewie
didnt mean crap in your answer about men and their dogs, ( although might as well be) meant that i read two different answers on amount of employers registered with ujm, im not ujm useing at the mo,,,, just want all facts, and am now starting to keep an up to date record of events, so i can fight my corner at jcentre, all info appreciated.
@Everyday women well whatever you know what you want then.
bobchewie what you on about, dont undrstand your comment mate, just asking straight forward questions, that all
if you check the reporting link right at the bottom of the UJM site you can get lots of very interesting information.
When I checked on the 4th of march it said 56,500 employers.
@DZWASP WHAT KIND OF EMPLOYERS?
I do not know, it just says employers.
So really anyone that has posted a job I suppose.
Also I have not checked how many employers were on the system at the roll out of UJM.
Might have a further look and see what else I can find tommorow.
dzwasp
thank you , will do when i agree to terms and conditions
This is interesting, i have point blank refused this universal jobs match. Last week when i signed on i was given an appointment to see an advisor about my continued reluctance to use this scam program the following tuesday. Today i land an interview for a job, only problem is the interview clashes with my job centre interview tomorrow.
I now take myself over to the job centre to rearrange the interview. I was subjected to nothing more than the third degree, they said they were going to phone the company to prove i was attending an interview, i went balistic in threatning them with the Data Protection Act. Who the hell do they think they are phoning a third party and discussing my personal data without my consent, and letting this companyt know i am claiming benefit. You realy cant make this up, since when did the DWP Decide they were the police and act outside the Data Protection Act .
I AM TYPING UP A COMPLAINT NOW AND USING THE OFFICIAL COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE FOR AN EXPLANATION
I think for a while now job centre staff can check to see if you have got an interview and also if you applied for any jobs that they have given you.
Happened to me when I got a doubt put on my claim – they phoned me up saying you have not applied for so and so job etc.
Checked my sent items and had the exact date and time the email was sent – found out the employer had not checked his spam filtering system.
Wonder how many other claimants get caught like this when the employer should have a better spam filter?
@dzwasp never mind the sun is out and that means everything is fine..even when its not
Dear Keith i think that derek and clive had it right back then..C*NTS !!
I suspect the reports link at the bottom of UJM will suddenly vanish once curious job seekers and also employers wonder what information you can get from it.
Especially if the figures from that report every 2 weeks suddenly gets posted on the DWP twitter page, daily newspaper comments pages, channel 4 fact file investigation email address and also any other blogs showing how insane the current welfare reforms are.
Just saying someone could do that.
Pingback: Universal Jobmatch Goes Mandatory | the void « Deaf2Work
A Public and Commercial Services union spokesman said: “We have very serious concerns about how robust and secure Universal Jobmatch is, particularly given the number of rogue job adverts that have appeared, which DWP shockingly says it is powerless to prevent.
“Using technology to help jobseekers is sensible but making it possible to force people to use this flawed system is just another crude tool in the Government’s cruel approach to welfare that seeks to blame unemployed people for a chronic lack of jobs.
“We have issued very clear guidance to our jobcentre members that their managers have no flexibility to interpret the rules and advisers should resist any attempts to set targets for making Universal Jobmatch mandatory. This guidance also confirms that jobseekers do not have to give DWP access to their accounts.”
Read more: Wales Online http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/2013/03/01/claimants-must-use-job-website-91466-32908358/#ixzz2MfQF7qND
http://www.eventbrite.co.uk/event/5555739366#
Universal Job Match Briefing
Voluntary Action LeicesterShire
Tuesday, 19 March 2013 from 10:00 to 11:00 (GMT)
Leicester, United Kingdom
Universal Jobmatch
Universal Jobmatch is the new Job Centre plus tool for job seekers to use to search for vacancies. If you, or staff or volunteers in your organisation, face people looking for work, then it might be useful to see what this online tool does and how it¹s accessed. The DWP are doing a brief presentation on Universal Jobmatch so come along to find out more.
“All the data that jobseekers and employers enter onto Universal Jobmatch will be covered under the Data Protection Act”.
From: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/newsroom/press-releases/2013/mar-2013/dwp030-13.shtml
If the information we enter on the UJM system cannot be guaranteed safe and secure, then just say no to UJM sign up.
From a legal point of view, and I think this could be the DWP’s downfall on UJM – under the Data Protection Act 1998 section 8 – we haven’t to be intimidated or threatened or cohearsed into giving any information – it has to be given freely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Act_1998#Personal_data
Personal data shall not be transferred to a country or territory outside the European Economic Area unless that country or territory ensures an adequate level of protection for the rights and freedoms of data subjects in relation to the processing of personal data.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Act_1998#Personal_data
Now I believe that Monster.com hold our UJM information on a server in Utah USA – this is certainly not in the boaders of the EEC.
@OBI WAN KENOBI this came up before,,about monster utah..they claim they ar there to check the site .much more laughably i posted a quote and link from a site which sent into detail about how secure it all was and nothing to worry about..haha and that after all the hacks and spam and crap..
http://amberhawk.typepad.com/amberhawk/2012/01/the-regulation-what-are-the-big-changes-to-the-data-protection-act-regime.html
The Regulation: what are the big changes to the Data Protection Act regime?
http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_organisations/data_protection/the_guide/information_standards/principle_4.aspx
This section looks at the second of the information standards – the accuracy of personal data.
In brief – what does the Data Protection Act say about accuracy and updating?
The Act says that:
Personal data shall be accurate and, where necessary, kept up to date.
This is the fourth data protection principle. Although this principle sounds straightforward, the law recognises that it may not be practical to double-check the accuracy of every item of personal data you receive. So the Act makes special provision about the accuracy of information that individuals provide about themselves, or that is obtained from third parties.
To comply with these provisions you should:
* take reasonable steps to ensure the accuracy of any personal data you obtain;
* ensure that the source of any personal data is clear;
* carefully consider any challenges to the accuracy of information; and
* consider whether it is necessary to update the information.
In more detail…
When is personal data “accurate” or “inaccurate”?
The Data Protection Act does not define the word “accurate”, but it does say that personal data is inaccurate if it is incorrect or misleading as to any matter of fact. It will usually be obvious whether information is accurate or not. For example, if an individual has moved house from Chester to Wilmslow, a record showing that he currently lives in Chester is obviously inaccurate. But a record showing that he once lived in Chester remains accurate, even though he no longer lives there. You must always be clear about what a record is intended to show.
List of UK government data losses:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_government_data_losses
this quote from the Daily Express
“”We have issued very clear guidance to our jobcentre members that their managers have no flexibility to interpret the rules and advisers should resist any attempts to set targets for making Universal Jobmatch mandatory. This guidance also confirms that jobseekers do not have to give DWP access to their accounts.”
the word ”acounts” is a highlighted link ,click on it and it jumps to page about Barclays (the rate fixers)
That’s correct: we don’t have to give DWP access – originallly from the PCS Union release dated 1st March 2013.
interestingly thats been excluded from the DWP release on 4th March 2013.
Typical bloody DWP tring to mislead people again, whatever happened to Cameron’s big claim that they were going to be more transparent?
i see DWP feature a lot in data losses….
Universal Jobmatch or Jobseekers’ Home-grab?
I was on a forum and a UJM excert was telling people that there was no problem with letting staff have access to their data..
Ujm has to be legally brought down – and this government has to go – no-one will be able to relax until this is achieved.
@obi wan kenobi look at the twitpic…
http://twitpic.com/be0nul
http://twitpic.com/be0nul
Lord Freud response to Qs from MP re Universal Jobmatch.
APPLICATION HISTORY ACTIVITY HISTORY..WILL BE RECORDED PART OF THE SERVICE THE ADVISOR WILL BE ABLE TO VIEW THIS WITH JOBSEEKER CONSENT..
Only happens if you apply through UJM. So apply directly for those jobs you fancy that have email addresses or phone numbers and leave the others.
@jim i got that info from the twitpic link i posted from lord fraud
@JIM and all…i found more guff about the UJM..
http://www.occupythebanks.com/2012/11/censored-pcs-union-website-universal.html
Security Concerns
DWP have told PCS that the service will provide appropriate, safe and secure access for employers and jobseekers to this government service. However PCS has raised concerns that members will be required to access a system that it outside the ‘gsi’ network and which we understand has been subject to security breaches in the past. DWP Management have now assured PCS that security is taken extremely seriously by the Department and the Senior Responsible Officer will not give permission to introduce a new service such as Universal Jobmatch without security accreditation. The final accreditation will be provided on 16th November for Universal Jobmatch.
Although the software is built on the platform of a company called ‘Monster’, who already run similar labour market websites, Universal Jobmatch is a public service, hosted by DWP and can only be accessed through Directgov, which is soon to be re-badged as gov.uk. ‘Monster’ has no access to customer records other than to correct faults with the IT. UJM will be free of charge at the point of contact, though of course this does not cover the costs of internet access.
Impact of UJM
UJM will have an impact across DWP but it will have the greatest impact in Work Services Directorate and Contact Centre Services. DWP’s ambition is to have 1.2 million Jobseekers using UJM by August 2013. This equates to 80% of the live JSA load. The system is also designed for the use of ESA customers. PCS is highly sceptical that such an ambitious target can be met simply by encouraging jobseekers to use the service.
Contact Centres Services (CCS)
UJM will mean that CCS will close the EBOST, EDON and NET service lines as their work will become digital through UJM. All of the CCS staff affected will be redeployed onto other service lines. No staff will be made surplus. A new, much smaller, UJM service line will be created for those employers unable to use the online system.
Job Centres
In Job Centres Personal Advisers will stop:
* Regularly recording job submissions and matching customers to jobs. UJM will propose matches based on information inputted by jobseekers (in CVs, profiles, and job search criteria)
* Using LMS to look up vacancies, assess the local labour market and manage job referrals. Instead advisors should encourage Jobseekers to register for a UJM account and for them to give DWP permission to view their account.
It is important to note that UJM is a vacancy and job matching service, which is open to everyone, not just benefit claimants, and is not connected to any claims. Although UJM will be the preferred method of promoting job opportunities, customers will still be able to use the telephony channel for Jobseekers Direct.
GUIDO FAWKES COMMENTEERS WHAT A NICE BUNCH THEY ARE (NOT) Sterlise the chavs before they start popping out the little bastards!
Im going to a food bank
Why bother going to waitrose when they hand it out for free?
I can make a meal for 4 for less than a pound
A GOOD ONE!
These workshy f$c&wits should be left to starve to death
And how can those African beggars starve on such a rich continent?
Can anyone explain this.
A very FAT man is at the food bank.
He’s taking food because he can’t afford to eat
What’s next Cocaine banks for coke starved scroungers?
A lot of these charities are Socialist front groups, run by Labour hacks – and much of this publicity is anti-Tory propaganda.
I think we now need to open charity sperm banks
after all , breeding at such a rate of knots with such large fat ugly toothless crones must be tiring for the lazy fuckers
it’s no wonder they have to lie in bed all day
We house them , feed them , clothe them , transport them , we might as well
impregnate the fuckers
???? guido fawkes commenters ???afraid am lost on this post
@dzwasp dont worry anyone in blogosphere knows guido hes a very right wing neo lib establisment protector the ppl who subscribe to his blog are as hate mongers as he is snidey twaddle.r peddler..i look at his stuff for a laugh….”charities are a front for socialists.” seriously they think that….
ah righto
is it easy to bait and wind them up and get them all frothing at the mouth with lunacy?
usually they argue themselves out of their argument after a while.
@yaeh they think caring about soome one is a communist plot…bbc nhs is them commiez !!!! that and workshy..
a bit like republicans thinking obama is a socialist terrorist nazi communist taking everyones jobs.
Nut jobs
Sometimes I read comments from these folks and wonder exactly what there thought process is and where in the world do they get these views from?
Same with that loon alex jones and the crazy insanity that is on the infowars site.
Somewhere someone is making lots of money from these crack pots
@DZWASP THIS IS MY FAVOURITE DROOLING AT THE MOUTH RIGHTIST SITE..SCROLL DOWN THROUGHTO THE HEALTHCARE STUFF ABOut NHS its is a cracker….
http://commieblaster.com/
by the way ANYONE is interested BORIS JOHNSON will be in catford so go there and tell him what you think ( i am surprised he knows where it is maybe his chaufffer.does..
it seems if anyone disagrees with right wing tory bovine excrament, they are labled a socialist. What ever happened to an indapendent. It seems that political comic called the daily hate mail is avid reading for GUIDO FAWKES and followers. Guido Fawkes was the only man to enter parliament with honest intentions . That Neuro-linguistic programming works well on simple minds called a tory voter
http://www.libertarianview.co.uk/current-affairs/why-we-should-scrap-the-nhs
then you get tripe like this…
Why we should scrap the NHS
Posted on May 3, 2011 by admin
The NHS doesn’t work, because like all Socialist enterprises it breaks the essential direct link between the people paying for the service and the people providing it.
This is bad for both the healthcare providers and the patients:
1. The NHS destroys respect for healthcare providers.
Every weekend, after 11:00pm, the local hospital’s Accident and Emergency department will be filled with drunken youths demanding their right to unlimited treatment for self-inflicted injuries.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/health/newsid_7588000/7588865.stm
Patients can’t take their custom elsewhere and the health care providers are paid regardless of whether or not the patient is satisfied with the care they receive.
please note the word ‘CUSTOM’ like its a fucking product in a shop…
@dzwasp this is from commieblaster…its insane..
http://www.bookwormroom.com/2009/12/08/britain-with-communist-medicine-has-communist-health-outcomes-lots-of-death/
it really is insane.
my brain is now hurting over the total lunacy of it all.
@DZWASP Yeah its obsessive too…..
Britain’s NHS, which is government-run (i.e., Communist) medicine, has, unsurprisingly, Communist outcomes. Lots of people die unnecessarily in England under the government’s beneficent care: LOL!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079176/One-jobless-benefits-got-criminal-record.html
One in three on jobless benefits has got a criminal record: £2bn cost of handouts to underclass is revealed for the first time
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079176/One-jobless-benefits-got-criminal-record.html#ixzz2MgEw7V3G
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
thers this photo of people going into job centre myabe they are usingg UJM? no no the caption reads….”Counting the cost: Many of those claiming benefits are believed to have a criminal record”
i think what is criminal is the UJM and the fucking money spent of that plie of shit..
just ;love the commenst on the daily heil there
Take their money away! We can then use it for something useful and hopefully they’ll die out and so reduce the criminal population at the same time (so less to spend on prisons, insurance etc).
– ouch, north west, 28/12/2011 9:30
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stop all benefits except for the terminally ill with 6 months to live,bring back the work house,this would enable this country to get back on its feet and deter the rest of the world charging in,we have to apply very strict conditions,no more sitting in doors watching the box all expenses paid and deter the feckless underclass from poppng them out every year as a means to avoid work,it has to be tough to halt the further decline of the uk
I REMEMBER THIS ONE..
http://politicalscrapbook.net/2012/04/alexandra-swann-unemployed-voting/
ITS DANGEROUS TO LET THE UNEMPLOYED VOTE..
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nhs-tories-hidden-privatisation-plan-1729681
TORIES NEW NHS PRIVATISATION AGENDA
@A4E did you know the work fare pimps system is sort of based on UJM or the other way round..
Does “use” Universal Jobmatch really mean “created a profile and upload a CV”? I mean you can use Universal Jobmatch without logging on.
@jim i went ont the UJM on my phone just to check it out..its a mess really alos using pc too…its connetced to jobsearch sites used by workfare pimps..
Thing is “use” might be interpreted as doing a jobsearch using a town name or a post code and applying for jobs you think would suit you without uploading personal data to the site. I’m still not clear if the Jobcentre definition of “use” means “create a profile and upload a CV to UJM”. Without a profile UJM cannot stored data associated with you permanently in it databases – in which case you’re not in danger because you cannot self-incriminate by refusing to apply for a job that is too far away etc.
Way I use it and is all ok on my JSAG :
uploaded cv and set to private
no dwp access
But I do have to prove I am using it 5 days a week (seems as though everyone at our job centre has been told to use it 5 days a week).
I also never use that drop down box for showing why I did not apply for a job.
I used to use the activity log to write down each search I did, but that is awful for printing out and you cannot change the ascend/descend order, so now I just copy and paste to an open office document.
Quite a few security jobs and also high skilled database jobs going in 20 mile radius from my location.
If the DWP are denied access, how do you prove how many times you log on?
Print outs, well that is what I use.
I have set up saved searchs and copy and paste the http link of the search into an open office document.
No one has complained about it as I am playing by the rules.
I work for a training provider who has slowly succumbed to the present trend of being a DWP/ Serco whore. How I long for the days when I was expected only to help people with simpler problems like dealing with the lack of any basic skills what so ever, give them support with issues such as substance misuse or the slightly more troublesome one of presently having to live in a hostel due to the complete collapse of their home lives. Now of course, I have the added bonus of being an unofficial Job Centre Advisor, or what ever you wish to call it. This allows me to come into contact with surly, abusive and aggressive individuals who , at times, seem to think their present situation is mine and my colleagues fault. It isn’t. I also have the pleasure of meeting people who are friendly, a bit confused and genuinely thankful for a human approach to a very inhuman solution to a problem that just won’t do as it’s told.
I , as many others in similar roles, do what I do for the simple reason I like to see people get something out of life, something for them that gives them self belief and a better shot at making a dent in the big hard wall of the system we’re all tied to. UJM, DWP, Serco, I am sick to my soul with all of this and the bullshit filled world my workplace is slowly becoming.
Those of you who would bemoan the way it is, continue. Drag your heels, kick up a fight, shout out your displeasure at the hard handed way the blue tie brigade are herding you towards your unwanted fates and fate it is for none of you, none of you will do more than what’s expected of you. Those of you who look their reality in the eye and know that some things can be a means to an end and not just an end no matter how they’re dressed up, good luck .
Some of us do understand.
Matt, I don’t doubt you are a sincere chap but…
“This allows me to come into contact with surly, abusive and aggressive individuals who , at times, seem to think their present situation is mine and my colleagues fault. It isn’t.”
Maybe they reason why the clients feel the way they do is because they are being treated as nothing more than slaves, handed warnings and threats that if you don’t do what we say you will lose all benefits. Perhaps it’s the threat hanging over them that will be made to work for no pay for a greedy employer looking for free labour or a “charity” that no longer understands the meaning of the word.
You work for the companies that do this. They couldn’t do what they do unless they had employees at the front end doing the work. That’s a matter for your own conscience but I know what I would do – get out.
http://welfareuk.wordpress.com/2013/03/03/the-lies-we-tell-ourselves-2/
has anyone actually been mandated to sign up ?
If it’s going to happen (in my case) the first real attempt could be this Friday, or in weeks ahead … it’s a game of cat & mouse, or the myopic leading the quite long-sighted.
happened to me yesterday.
it’s quite funny tho… I’ve made a rather creative CV to send to random employers to meet my ‘4 a week’ contract. some of the jobs in search say 2014 or 2015, i think it’s being haxxed 😉
oh and yesterday she went to do a search when i was at the JC and UJ would not even load. hehe
that is what happened when I was first made to look at UJM at the JCP centre.
The JCP proxy blocked the site 🙂
I have not been forced to apply for a certain amount of jobs yet.
Just to search for jobs 5 times a week on UJM.
Some information from the reporting tool (think IDS and Habon are lying):
1st of december 2012 stats :
Number of active employers
Date:
01-Dec-2012 (Sat)
Employer:
All Employers
Geography:
All Geographies
Number of active employers
51,981
Number of active jobseekers
Date:
01-Dec-2012 (Sat)
Jobseeker:
All Jobseekers
Geography:
All Geographies
Equality and diversity:
All Equality and Diversity
Number of active jobseekers
18,989
Number of new employer accounts
Week:
Sun 25 Nov 2012 – Sat 1 Dec 2012
Employer:
All Employers
Geography:
All Geographies
Total number of new active accounts
9,789
same data for this month :
Number of active employers
Date:
05-Mar-2013 (Tue)
Employer:
All Employers
Geography:
All Geographies
Number of active employers
57,211
Looks as though JCP has been very busy in getting people to sign up with UJM !!!! :
Number of active jobseekers
Date:
05-Mar-2013 (Tue)
Jobseeker:
All Jobseekers
Geography:
All Geographies
Equality and diversity:
All Equality and Diversity
Number of active jobseekers
423,592
Number of live jobs :
Number of live jobs
Date filter (Yesterday):
06-Mar-2013 (Wed)
Employer:
All Employers
Employment type:
All Employment Types
Geography:
All Geographies
Job title source:
All Job Titles
Number of live jobs
16,594
Anyone with basic maths skills can see UJM is not working or going to get anyone into employment based on the above stats.
For every job posted in theory 25.5 people will be applying for it.
And if the trend continues in amount of active job seekers, that is going to soon turn into 100+ people applying for every job posted!!!!.
Approx 300,000 NEW active job seekers since yesterday !!!!
As 1st march had 144,731 :
Number of active jobseekers
Date:
01-Mar-2013 (Fri)
Jobseeker:
All Jobseekers
Geography:
All Geographies
Equality and diversity:
All Equality and Diversity
Number of active jobseekers
144,731
I was at an interview this week and the employer said they had to pull their ad after a few hours “after recieving hundreds of email cv’s”. They weren’t even using the UJM site for adverts!
We were told the number of job applicants for our area was just over twenty and I knew that had to be wrong and this proves it. The unemployment figures reported by the DWP are flaky to say the least in terms of number of unemployed level but this is compounded when it comes to determing your chance of getting a job by only using number of jobs/applicants ratio.
The number of applicants is massively higher because there are so many people sanctioned off benefits, on work programme type placements, in fake self employment and in poor paid/conditions jobs…
http://welfareuk.wordpress.com/2013/03/03/lack-of-jobs-and-the-work-programme/
And it’s only going to get worse when the new rules kick in and forces those who are on part-time work or low income to seek better employment up to the equivalent of a national minimum wage/hours level. Crazy.
I am not sure what the DWP will do when the system breaks and employers get so pissed off with it and leave in droves.
I cannot see how they can force people to apply for jobs when the system they have put in place hardly has any.
Also prime ministers question time this lunch time – what a bunch of idiots that rule our country.
“I cannot see how they can force people to apply for jobs when the system they have put in place hardly has any.”
The “spirit” at work within the DWP is “diabolic”. The new rules they brought in about making unemployed spend the entire week looking for work that doesn’t exist is designed to morally corrupt the honest claimant into lying. IDS’s book was called the “The Devils Tune” and in it’s own way was a prophecy of the tune the DWP is playing today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil's_Tune
But let’s follow Mark Hobans example “lets not demonise” ATOS – yeah.
@john but hoban IS a demon..
doesn’t help when they set a contracted number of jobs we must apply to on UJ. my agreement was updated (again) yesterday, i got mandated to sign up and must apply to atleast 4 weekly. I created a rather fun CV for this. she couldn’t even get UJ to load while mandating me in to it. crazy, crazy stuff.
so what happens if the jobs listed you cannot apply for due to lack of skills they ask for or due to transport issues?
wondering if anyone has had any sensible answer from a jcp agent over this issue?
my jsag says check internet 5 x pwk incl unoversal jobmatch and apply for any suitable jobs.
problem is last 1 week and a half no suitable jobs have been coming up on UJM
going to do a huge blast of job searching on various other job boards,seems to be a slump in advertised jobs though (or all are so far outside of my transport range).
I think it would be a good idea to start referring to the offending item as the Universal Job Spam system (UJS), as thats is what it actually is, and hopefully this will cross into our mainstream media and what is left of the public consciousness.
Meanwhile, the system has been heavily criticised by the recruitment industry itself here :
http://www.recruiterfocus.co.uk/2013/01/10/universal-jobmatch-worst-job-board-launch-ever/
I would sooner apply for unsuitable jobs than try to explain something that is so taboo to a jsa as there aren’t any jobs or they are too far. that’s just walking into the mandatory work trap.
seems to be a gray area about what to do in that scenario but it would be more fun to explain to a university why you had no choice but to apply for that professor position.
I suspect you will be falling into a sanction trap.
I think someone mentioned in a reply a long while ago on here they got threatened or actually sanctioned for applying for a non suitable job due to the fact there were no other jobs to apply for that week.
Hopefully common sense will prevail, although I bet some vindictive jcp adviser will try and sanction people for doing just that using UJM/UJS.
You are not expected to apply for jobs when you do not have the experience/qualifications specified by the employer. Thats JCP policy because it means the employers do not get drowned in applications which annoys them. One JCP advisor tried to tell me otherwise last year but I dug in and made her go and check with the manager and he confirmed what I said was correct – it’s common sense.
A second best approach is to take a note of the name of the person who is telling you to apply for jobs that do not conform to the employers requirements and then on your email cover note to the cv put a standard apology that states you realize that you do not meet the requirements but JCP advisor XYZ (with contact details) has told you must apply for this kind of job and to contact them if you are unhappy.
You are expected to undertake “tasks” involving finding a job. That doesn’t mean applying for x number of jobs but rather noting the ones you have analyzed and rejected with the reasons given along with the ones you have applied for. A task can be a visit to the library to use internet job site, checking newspaper, visit to the Job Centre etc. Double check what you have signed to do on your Job Seeker agreement.
The Department’s Universal Jobmatch Toolkit has been made available. Read the detail of how the “Universal Sanctioning Machine” works at:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/142280/response/366711/attach/html/4/Universal%20Jobmatch%20Toolkit.pdf.html
Interesting information and really not much leeway for jcp staff to cause a fuss if we are following the rules.
play the game, hopefully get a job and hope ujm is made to vanish.
@DZWASP AND EVERYBODY..I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU ALL.. a lot of people are sick and disabled.. but people are saying this cant be so, therefore they must all be fakers and benefit scroungers ok? and this is happening at the same time the tories are secretly privatising the NHS????
An important petition to be signed so it can be handed in on Friday to Westminster re the privatization of NHS (pls share with others):
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/m/74c0513c/2d5fcd88/5f816374/467b436d/2306153303/VEsC/
@JOHN the ATOS WCA APPEALS SHOW THAT THERE A LOT OF SICK AND DISABLED PEOPLE..WHY IS THIS?
The computer they use to count the points doesn’t have a heart, much like them it seems. I think the tide is maybe beginning to turn with the skiver/ striver, disabled/faker nonsense. Too many people are now being hurt by the all out attack of the wealthy on the rest of society and beginning to realize thats it just about the poor being robbed again by the rich.
it is all a sick joke – a killing joke.
cruel bastards are ruling us at present.
@DXWASP NUT THINK ABOUT IT THE TIMING AND EVERYTHING…….SURELY ONE PROIVES THE OTHER..
This is Gold!
Thanks Jeff for the link.
I picked out some points that are relevant to recent posts. [Comments in brackets are mine]
95. You cannot issue a Jobseeker’s Direction to either require a claimant to create a profile and CV in Universal Jobmatch or to mandate a claimant to give us access to their account – this is their decision not ours. [very important point]
97. We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this. [Important point]
104. In cases where a claimant is not using Universal Jobmatch, they will show the steps they can be reasonably expected to take to actively seek work that can give them the best prospects of employment, through other means. [I keep a written diary and sore nothing on the UJM system]
Claimant says they do not intend to apply for the job
123. If the claimant says they do not intend to apply for the job they may have also given a reason why from the drop down menu in the ‘Job Details’ page in UJ. However, selecting a reason why from this drop down menu is optional. [keep a record in a diary]
124. Whether they have recorded a reason from the drop down menu or not, you must continue to ask the claimant for a full explanation of why they do not intend to apply and any reason(s) given will need to be included in the RE referral to a Decision Maker. [E.g you do not meet the requirements specified by the employer]
The date this document was issued by the DWP through a FOI request is 6 March 2013 in case anybody is told by a JCP or WP agent that your info is out of date.
John
Even though it’s dated 6 March 2013 it’s in reference to the ‘Pilot Stage’
Click to access Freedom%20of%20Information%204965%20response.pdf
do i definitely not allow them access ? if they mandate me to sign up what do i do ? and what should i say ? i know what i want to say ha ha but id probably get arrested
@JOE SAY HAHA
just say you are not going to allow access (or give consent for dwp access), they cannot force you to do that.
As long as you agree to upload a cv and do the job search they ask, should not be a problem.
Good tip is to upload the cv (set to private)>
Also set up 3 to 5 save searchs in UJM
These show up in the activity log
Print these out and it shows you have complied by the uploading the cv.
If you can stand the strange way the activity log works you can record all your job activity on that and print it out (you might have to fiddle with your print settings for it to print out so it is readable).
According to the press release by the DWP on 4 March you must use the system.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/newsroom/press-releases/2013/mar-2013/dwp030-13.shtml
But you can use it anonymously without creating a profile or storing a cv on their system. See main extracts in my post timed 8.13pm on the methods which you can use if the JCP tries to tell you otherwise.
I would only put your name and email address for contact details on the cv.
Why not your phone number?
I am ex directory, could put a mobile number I suppose.
But this is the cv for UJM
Also not sure who are bogus employers on UJM so I am just putting my email address.
A very important point I forgot to mention about the UJ Toolkit:
*** “This reflects the pre mandation guidance provided to staff.” ***
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/142280/response/366711/attach/html/3/IR%2052%20Response%203%2005.03.13.pdf.html
Since it was issued by the DWP today we can assume that is what JCP must still be using.
The FOI that was submitted on the 4 March seeking to clarify what is meant by “using the system” hasn’t been answered yet so what appears above holds good until any update is released.
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/4_march_2013_jobseekers_required
Jeff,
The response you link to could be read as “you asked for pilot toolkit so that’s what we are going to give you, if we have issued an update we are not giving it to you it since that wasn’t what you asked for, so there.”
Until we, including JCP staff, know anything better I take it that everything above still holds true. There is nothing in Hobins statement on the 4th March that says anything different.
John,
From consent.me.uk
’05/03/13 update: DWP information for ‘Advisers and intermediaries’
“If after the Jobcentre Plus adviser has explained the benefits of the service to them, the claimant still refuses to use Universal Jobmatch, the adviser may then consider whether it is reasonable to issue a ‘Jobseeker’s Direction’ to mandate them to create a profile and upload a public CV on Universal Jobmatch.”’
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/adviser/updates/universal-jobmatch/
This seems similar to what is considered when changing the terms of a Jobseeker’s Agreement – is the proposed change reasonable given the Jobseeker’s circumstances. The statement from the PCS union confirmed that it is not a “blanket” provision. That said, a claimant issued with a Jobseeker’s Direction must decide whether to comply or not. If not, my understanding is that the only course of redress available to him is to have the matter considered by an independent appeal tribunal. I would like to see the guidance that advisers use to decide who gets and who doesn’t get a Direction!
Surely they cannot possibly FORCE you to make your CV public for anybody posing as an employer to have access to? That HAS to be unlawful, surely?
without dwp access they cannot know if your cv is public or private.
Maybe this is another example of how the spirit of the DWP would like by small to degrees to corrupt an essentially honest person into telling an untruth the same way they want people to assert they have spent the whole week searching for non-existent jobs. “Be like us”.
http://welfareuk.wordpress.com/2013/03/01/keep-calm-and-carry-on-the-dwp-version/
Since the staff in JCP could also be in the position of a having to interview each other like they do with clients (since many are part time/claiming tax credits), and be forced to prove they are searching for better paid jobs/more hours, they will have greater empathy with clients since they also will know what’s it’s like to be denied the civil liberties that previous generations had to struggle to win.
IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED ROD LIDDLE WRITES IN THE SPECTATOR
Hugo Chavez dies. Pillocks mourn
According to The Grauniad, the world has lost a colossus, a political giant, an inspiring politician dedicated to rooting out corruption and standing up for the poor, etc etc.
It was Hugo Chavez they were talking about, bizarrely. They even wheeled out Tariq Ali to pen a eulogy. Martin Kettle hopped about between the cracks, lauding this corrupt and vicious demagogue while at least finding it within his soul to admit that he had a somewhat questionable side. Nonetheless, Kettle confided, he would have voted for Chavez had he (Kettle) been Venezuelan, rather than a bien pensant from London.
Jeff, Clear as mud. Not surprised they are supposed to have paid an outrageous £17 million for such a poorly thought out and implemented system when they cannot even formulate simple guidance!
“Universal Jobmatch is a valuable tool for helping jobseekers find work. We expect the majority of claimants who are genuinely looking for work will want to willingly use the service themselves.
I think a reasonable JCP advisor would assume that a person who provided the proof as set out in the toolkit above wouldn’t have to upload a public cv etc. But you do occasionally encounter ……
The department has become so mendacious with everything they touch, always pushing bit by bit to take away a persons a dignity. Yuk
Jeff, this muck is being rolled out the same week as the BBC reports the withdrawal of legal aid for civil cases and employment law. A thoroughly rotten unelected regime we have governing the country.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21668005
I expect the next workfare placements will be as farm workers as the agriculture wages board was practically wiped out yesterday by lib dems and conservatives.
From what I can gather farmers can now pay what they like and farm workers have no rights at all.
dzwasp
It would be a field ripe for exploitation! A sub-contractor could contact farmers and offer to pick their crops using “volunteers” who just want some work experience. The farmer could play along and convince himself that the spud-pickers really want to do the work for free. Of course a farmer who happens to be a shareholder in a Prime Provider or who is a supporter of the government would have no need to convince himself of anything: he might like to branch out to cockle-picking just to give some jobless folk a helping hand. Convoys of coaches to the shores!
There is a petition on the go with almost 200,000 names so far to curb the current unelected regimes snooping policies. It’s not related to UJM directly but its part the same mindset. Please check out:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/s/stop-government-snooping#petition
may i ask what is the minium qualifying period of claiming job seekers allowance to be placed on this mandatory work experience, sorry if off topic
there is none for Mandatory Work Activity, you can be sent on the first day of your claim
Well worth a read.
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/jobseekers_direction_to_register#comment-36307
“With reference to future intentions to mandate JSA claimants to register with Universal Jobmatch I can agree that it is completely appropriate for the public to know and understand the legal basis under which they can be mandated to use UJ. However, at this point in time we could only tell people the different options that could apply and are being considered………….[insert the usual Section 35 stonewall].”
As this was answered on 28/02/13 does anyone know if the legal basis has since been revealed?
ps. An aquaintance signed on on Wednesday, no mention of UJM registration at JCP or WP provider. There are no IADs at our local Jobcentre.
? I think an FOI has just been sent in/received asking for that info.
(don’t have a link for it), in light of “it’s now become mandatory” & others questioning the use of [mandate] “to use”.
What does an IAD look like – is it similar to an IDS/is it a computer or is it similar to an IUD??
“others questioning the use of [mandate] “to use”.”
I posted this link elsewhere.
“…….. “use” of Universal Jobmatch……”
Keep an eye on this FOI as at q.15 Ian Wolf questions this very point.
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/4_march_2013_jobseekers_required
Thanks, I think that that was the same FOI read today (perhaps shouldn’t have said “other[s]”) – but others are clearly interested in hearing what the reply might say – they do say the devil is in the detail.
I think we all suspect they’ll delay their answer until the full 20 working days have expired, or maybe even more going by their track record. Too late for a lot of people.
Same here, I signed on yesterday and no mention of UJM, no posters or leaflets and no IAD’s at our local JCP.
it’s a trap.
or a con
went to login this morning :
Application error
An error has occured handling your request.
Please try again later. If you continue to have access problems, please contact the help desk for one of the services you have enrolled for.
You can either close the browser, or return to the home page by clicking Continue.
In other words:
Computer say’s no!
Written Answers to Questions:
Thursday 7 March 2013
Alison McGovern: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions whether use of Universal Job Match is intended to be compulsory for those in receipt of jobseeker’s allowance. [145972]
Mr Hoban: Universal Jobmatch is a valuable tool for helping jobseekers find work so we expect that the majority of claimants who are genuinely looking for work will want to willingly use the service themselves. Where this is not the case and where appropriate we may require some jobseeker’s allowance (JSA) claimants to create a profile and public CV in Universal Jobmatch. In addition to this, JSA claimants must do all that can be reasonably expected of them to find work and must apply for any jobs that an adviser deems suitable. Universal Jobmatch will provide access to a wide range of vacancies, so using the service will be an important part of actively seeking work.
If after the Jobcentre Plus adviser has explained the benefits of the service to them and they still refuse to use Universal Jobmatch, the adviser may then consider whether it is reasonable to issue a Jobseeker’s Direction to mandate them to register on Universal Jobmatch. Before issuing a Jobseeker’s Direction the adviser will take into account their circumstances, including whether they have access to the internet. Jobseeker’s Directions require jobseeker’s allowance (JSA) claimants to take specific actions which will help them to find work, and failure to do so without good reason may result in a benefit sanction being applied.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm130307/text/130307w0001.htm#130307w0001.htm_wqn22
Still no real answers to the FOI put in by Ian Wolf yet – just the standard response so far!
What Alison Mcgovern should have come out with is the stats of active employers and active jobs from the reporting tool and asked hoban what the bloody hell is going on with the lack of jobs being advertised on the super great job machine.
Also they still bleat on about making the cv public.
Frank Zola FOI:
Universal Jobmatch Toolkit Chapters 1, 2, 3 and all others Update 8th March 2013:
Issuing a Jobseeker’s Direction to mandate JSA claimants to
create a profile and public CV in Universal Jobmatch.
51. Where you have explained the benefits to claimants of creating a profile
and public CV in Universal Jobmatch and they will not do so willingly, they
can be mandated to create a profile and public CV.
52. However, for legal reasons, you cannot issue a Jobseeker’s Direction to
mandate a claimant to create a profile and public CV unless a DWP IAD
service is reasonably available to them should they need to use one – for
example, because they do not want to accept cookies and therefore need
to have access to a device on which cookies have already been accepted.
53. You also cannot issue a Jobseeker’s Direction to mandate a claimant to
give us access to their account – this is their decision not ours.
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/151933/response/367730/attach/html/3/Universal%20Jobmatch%20Toolkit%20as%20at%2005%2003%2013.pdf.html
Also from the above:
Chapter 3.
Actively Seeking Employment
82. We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of
their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this.
So all this about screenprints is nonsense. I’m still not registered and from this it appears they can’t mandate me to register from my WP provider.
I am inclined to think that the phrase “DWP IAD service” refers to the 2,000+ devices that have been/are being sent to Job Centres. Could the phrase possibly be interpreted more broadly, or could such a service be made available from the offices of WP providers, councils, housing associations and basically anyone interested in making money out of benefit claimants approved by the DWP?
From another FOI request:
“Jobseeker’s Directions require JSA claimants to take specific actions which will help them to find work, and failure to do so without good reason may result in a benefit sanction being applied. The onus is on the claimant to demonstrate that they have followed the direction. In instances where a pseudonym or pen name has been used the adviser cannot be sure that the evidence being provided belongs to the claimant and may therefore refer to a decision maker to consider whether a sanction should be applied or not. ”
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/149177/response/367817/attach/html/3/635%20response.pdf.html
it seems a very tight line now on how you get a sanction.
Easy – crack an adviser!
“I am inclined to think that the phrase “DWP IAD service” refers to the 2,000+ devices that have been/are being sent to Job Centres.”
I agree with you on this.
“Could the phrase possibly be interpreted more broadly”
No, entirely my opinion, which is worthless, but this appears to me to be a clear definition of a DWP IAD.
From: Internet Access Devices (IADs) – Awareness for JobCentre Staff May 2012
“Unlike traditional computers, IADs do not retain any user information or files. The devices only have volatile memories which means that any data input will be automatically deleted at the end of a session. Switching off an IAD removes previous data that a claimant has inputted, and re-sets the device for the next user. This protects a claimant’s personal information.”
As to extending it to WP providers etc. I don’t think so at the moment as it would require equipment conforming to the above definition, again my own worthless opinion,
Wonder how much these IAD systems cost?
I swear the total cost of money they have wasted on UJM,UC and the work program they could have come up with a system with proper training and proper hope for the unemployed.
Instead of punishing us for being out of a job, encourage and nurture and help people get the skills they need (and employers needs for job applicants).
At the moment due to the lack of jobs on UJM and the amount of job seekers being mandated to use it there is just chaos.
I remember reading something along the lines of:
Universal Jobmatch is central to ensuring that only those entitled to Universal Credit will receive it.
The meaning is clear.
I conduct an anonymous search at the moment so I don’t know what it’s like for registered users. If, and when I have to register I’d need to be bonkers to allow JCP/DWP to use my equipment and resources for the above purpose, one slip and you’re sanctioned or claim disallowed.
So, it’s DWP IADs for me.
dzwasp – the problem with your suggestion is that it would make sense …
Or better still print the whole thing off and ask the JCP adviser to explain it to you – GOOD LUCK!
IDS is raging at the bishops.
And the daily mail readers comments section is full of frothing angry comments from folks who have been the right wing lies.
well a development this morning when i signed on. She stated that i am comming up to the six months mark and to encourage job search we are considering getting you into the job centre each day to sign.
At the moment i have no transport, it takes me 45 minutes to walk to the job centre, i have half a knee, constant pains and considered disabled under the Equality Act, AND TO TOP IT ALL I HAVE BEEN TOLD I AM GOING TO BE PUT ON THEIS MANDATORY WORK ACTIVITY.
I AM AN EX TRADE UNION REP SO THIS BULLYING IS WATER OFF A DUCKS BACK. BUT THIS IS OUITRAGIOUS
comments please people as i consider this indirect discrimination, and even positive discrimination
@Keith
They are losing the plot. They insist that other than on a signing day they would refund travel costs if the instruction is to call at job centre on additional days. How this would work in reality I dread to think as I’m pretty sure the cashier’s office is hardly ever open to give out monies (only at certain times of the day for a brief period.
I have previously drawn up a sort of ‘table’ showing actual travel times to & from the job centre (in between doing the school run) to give some idea of how much time would be taken away from job searching activities (or reading/writing about them on here) – as well as detailing the complications of paying in advance for even one extra set of travel to/from JCP in the fortnight – along with the time taken up if walking. (I mostly did this for my own benefit but it was taken in & read & there has been a cease-fire since on ‘extra’ visits. This could all change again as I’m in a similar position to you (but coming up to nine months) so don’t know if it’s any help to know they have said this quite straight-facedly to others than yourself …
On discrimination – I asked about this early on (individual treatment seemingly at random & with no comparable examples/consistency) & the reply (i’ve had it in writing) was along the lines of – individual jcp’s are free to decide how best to ‘help’ each individual customer …. which has now extended to up to & including telling them to attend every day if that’s ‘what it takes’ .. (in their view) …
Good luck whatever happens.
“…..other than on a signing day they would refund travel costs if the instruction is to call at job centre on additional days.”
From FoI 21 28.01.13
“Under current rules, travelling expenses for attending the Jobcentre on a signing day are not paid, however attendance required on other days can have expenses paid at adviser discretion.”
…..DWP Central FoI Team (ref:VTR 21)
Oh thanks for that. Just remembered the word used was ‘can’ not ‘will’ – I still keep thinking that when I ask questions what I’m getting is a (the) definitive answer – whereas it’s a catch-all, ‘answer for everything’ …
(They introduced the suggestion of every day visits being possible, then answered the obvious question of ‘how could that work in practice, not least financially?’ with ‘we can – and would – pay expenses for attending on [any number of] additional days’… ). All technically true – just not necessarily in each case.
I’ve wanted to learn a new language for a while now … was thinking perhaps Spanish or Italian but this is much more fun(ny).
And then we have this , from an FoI request answered on 14th March 2013
“Claimants are entitled to travel cost reimbursement for appointments outside their normal signing arrangements.”
DWP Central FoI Team
They actually don’t know whether they’re coming or going …
(& yet they want to control our every move).
@shirley nott i went to my local shell shop and bought stuff..as i came out the guy was collecting unsold stuff..sandwiches, milk, drinks etc all in good nick..he told me that when he took it back to the depot it was all binned and destroyed..what a waste when people go hungry…he even said it was a waste..the shop gets money back like sale or return.
@bob – It’s like houses standing empty/falling into disrepair/2nd homes that are frequently unused – not exactly ‘essential’ while down the street someone spends the night in a doorway. So much for ‘recycling’/redistribution – until someone comes along and (voluntarily) gives their time to set something up then finally they get some recognition (if anyone notices) …
You’ve been unlucky, sport. The everyday signing can’t really happen to that many people since the Jobcentres don’t have enough staff to see the same people to sign them ten days a fortnight (increasing their workload tenfold). As for the Mandatory Work Activity it’s only for four weeks isn’t it? How much of that can they realistically dish out with their workfare programmes flopping everywhere?
Fuck ’em.
As for Universal Jobmatch? Well, it’s pretty useless as a job board filled up as it is with totally crap jobs, e.g., commission only Kleeneze agents etc., but the only really bad thing about it is its surveillance of personal activity, which is incredibly creepy and potentially dangerous. It’s one thing to get penalised for not applying for enough work and another altogether to get sanctioned for not applying for every potential vacancy no matter how far away it is, how part-time it is, what its duties involve, or how it fits in around your life etc. How could anybody really expect a single parent to travel 3 hours to work and back every day and be separated from her/his child/children for 12 hours a day (8 hours work, 1 hour lunch, 3 hours travelling)? Ridiculous!
My assumption is that the government is desperate to try to keep unemployment falling, kind of, and because the economy is flatlining has decided that the only way to do this is to put more and more pressure on the unemployed hoping that by doing so some of them will end up securing work.
They won’t of course.
As I say: Fuck ’em.
Their days are numbered.
“……… sanctioned for not applying for every potential vacancy no matter how far away it is”
You can’t, 90 minutes travelling each way.
90 minutes via public transport is what they work it out as.
“…..1 hour lunch…..”??????
A break of 20 minutes in a 6 hour period is all we’re entitled to.
I should have included:
https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work
Eugh got JC at 12 😦
all you need to do is sign up for it..and take your email address in next time your at jobcentre to confirm you have signed up…i so nearly got chucked out ofthe jobcentre today lol
they will try there best to make u sign up just say i dont see how it benefits me for you to have access to my account therefore fuck off..or youre not having access to it just forget the fuck off bit
I hope someone would be able to offer some advice…
Two weeks ago I was asked to register on UJ as “it is now becoming mandatory”. I was also asked then to “bring in the 12 digit number given after you register”.
I did register yesterday and printed out 2 pages: one with the pdf response from the gov’t gateway showing my ID (which was blanked out before I printed the page) and I also completed my UJ profile and then printed my “Activity History” (showing two steps: accepting the “Standards of Behaviour”, as well as completing and registering my profile).
These two pages were brought up when I saw my advisor today.
During that meeting I was asked to provide my email address so that the advisor “can check that you actually registered on UJ as I told you the last time we met”. I responded that I don’t remember it and that I don’t have it with me. I also pointed out that the advisor did not ask me to bring my email address today and as this was the first time I am hearing this, I can’t do anything until we see each other in two weeks.
I have, however, presented both pages as proof that I have indeed registered. The advisor’s response was that “these could be altered – how do I know that you haven’t used somebody else’s pages instead?”
My response to this was that, by the same token, how do I know that if I give my advisor my email address with which I registered with on UJ, that email address won’t be used to register on some kiddy porn websites for example?
The answer from the advisor was: “it wont, trust me” to which I retorted – “I can’t since you don’t trust me either”. Then he asked me whether I have granted access to DWP to my UJ profile and the answer was “No, because nothing compels me to”. I was then told that it will become “mandatory” and “it is better that you do it now, rather than later”, to which I responded “we will cross this bridge when we come to it”.
Since that individual wasn’t getting anywhere with me, another, more senior person came to the meeting and told me that since I have refused to provide them with access, they can’t be certain that I am fulfilling my JSA obligations and told me that unless I give them access to the account, I have to come to the jobcentre every day!
I tried to explain that this is not mandatory and I am not required to do that and asked on what grounds they have assumed that I have not been fulfilling my “obligations” under the JSA agreement all of a sudden?
The answer was that “because you don’t give us access to your UJ profile and we can’t be certain that you have registered” (they repeated their point of the pages I presented earlier “could be falsified”).
At the end, they have arranged for me to see this (senior) advisor and printed out a standard letter for me to attend TOMORROW to “review your Jobseeker’s Agreement to see if it is still helpful”. They also asked me to sign a separate piece of paper that I have received this letter, which I did.
I was also told in no uncertain terms that they will arrange to see me every day at the job centre from now on – simply because I have not granted DWP access to my profile and have not presented “reliable evidence” that I am registered on UJ as I was told 2 weeks ago.
The good thing is that I have the entire saga (going over 40 minutes or so) on tape – it was all recorded.
At the end of the meeting I told my advisor that I am going to submit a complaint and asked to know the name of the area manager so that I could address it to. I also asked the name of the 2 individuals concerned (first name and surname), but I was told that they will give me their first names only and this is what I’ve got.
So, what I’d like to know is – is this legal? Should I have signed this piece of paper and agreed to that meeting?
Should I agree to any subsequent meetings, given that the sole reason for these was that I simply refused to give them access to my UJ profile and the 2 pages I presented as evidence that I have registered was “unreliable”?
My understanding is that the whole thing is not mandatory and they can’t force me to give them access to my UJ profile. What am I supposed to do so that my “evidence” of my UJ registration is believed?
One other thing – while I was sitting there in the jobcentre waiting to see my advisor, the previous person did not give them anything either and it was simply told that they will have to give them such access in the future, after which he was free to go.
When I pointed this out to them, I was told that I “should not be listening to other peoples’ conversations” and that “each individual circumstances are unique”.
Please advice!
phew …
you do not need to give them the government gateway 12 digit code (they should not ask for it).
ok you do need to let them know the email address you signed up with(that will prove you signed up as they can check on there system).
Do not give dwp access (not mandatory at all).
It sounds as though they are trying to force the issue.
Forgot to mention one other thing – I am nearly 100% certain that during the meeting tomorrow (if I attend!) I am going to be asked/coerced/forced to change my JSA agreement with more drastic/punitive/miserable terms.
I am thinking to refuse this (they won’t see my current copy of this agreement as I am not going to bring it with me) with the argument that I am very happy with the terms of my present agreement and don’t see the need to change anything?
Do you think this will wash? What happens if I refuse to sign a new one? Can I be sanctioned?
I’m probably too late with this for you but might help others.
I think the position is that if you and the adviser cannot agree on the JSA it will be referred to a Decision Maker. Anyone know the precise position?
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/specialist-guides/decision-makers-guide/
mate you should take email address to prove…or create a new email address just for ujm and take that email address.you really need email address and thats all k
Jason, how did you get on yesterday?
We need to all stand together. We are being often useless and false information from different JC staff.
I don’t know if I can help as such but hopefully someone will be a long soon as to help you regards your legal standing, but as I understand it is not mandatory to allow the JC staff to see your Universal Jobsearch account.
I signed on again yesterday for first time and was told if I had a Universal Jobsearch account and I told them I did. She then searched some system for me, found my records and said ”You have not allowed us to see your claim/profile”.
She then told me ”It is not mandatory so you are well within your right to do that, but you will need to continue to fill in the diary.”
On both our experiences, it seems like its your luck of the day/person with regards Universal Jobmatch and their views on it.
I don’t see how they can sanction you if it is not yet mandatory and until its official law on paper that we have to show our advisers our records then I cannot see how they can sanction you.
Great that you recorded it. I can’t actually see in anyway how they can sanction.
Good luck and let us all know how you do.
As for UJM, I’ve signed up for it but using an older e-mail address for correspondence, I’ve put on a CV that does not have any personal details involving phone or address, just that old -email address and the area in the UK I’m living.
Keep up the good fight. This is all going to unravel if they continue in this way.
J.J.
My jobcentre are telling everyone they have to have an account online and all jobsearch activity is to be recorded on universal jobmatch. They would not even give me another job log . Last time a signed on a was told it was mandatory to give them access. But a had send a freedom of information to dwp and showed her that it says it was wasn’t mandatory to give them access She showed someone and came back and said it was in special circumstances that you don’t have to give them access.
She told me it would be harder for me cause i would have to provide printouts a said a will login to uj and print out everything when i sign on . You cannot just use our pc you have to book a time cannot just go on a pc It is not on my jobseeker agreement and i haven’t had a jobseeker direction
But she made me feel i must use universal jobmatch so i booked there computers for a hour 3 times this week i have a pc but won’t be using it for there benefit A was using there computer on monday and someone whom has never used a pc was worried. She was told it was use universal jobmatch or get no dole money and her rent would stop for a
month to this woman had no email never used a pc in her whole life
Universal jobmatch tool kit paragraph 82 states
We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of
their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this.
Jobcentres are making there own rules up for their own gain
A Sign on wednesday nextweek i await the outcome be another advisor a right bitch
defo sounds as though they are making there own rules up.
they cannot force you to give dwp access.
All you need is to prove you are signed up on ujm (email address) and that you are using it (via printouts).
seems as though they must have some targets to meet.
“……………..they cannot force you to give dwp access ”
Confirmed yet again, on 13th March 2013, here:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/mandatory_dwp_access#incoming-369039
With the toolkit printout highlight the sections that show where they cannot force consent and also paragraph 82 (as you have stated above), also take the FOI that came in and take it with you each signing.
I think they are using the perception of fear to bully people into giving dwp access.
Luckily my JCP is happy with the way mine is, just take print outs in each time.
Last time a went a did take print outs was just after it was mandatory.
The activity history she said that was no good because i was only shown her the suggested jobs yet that shows all jobs a applied for there was only two suggested jobs in it rest a had applied for . A still had my job log at time never was allowed another job log. Say the site goes down surely a paper copy should be shown yet their only wanting uj access a don’t plan to give
The suggested jobs one was a management position another was a packer which i have since found out on boycott workfare facebook page someone said they have been posting fake jobs so the sites telling me to apply for fake jobs . Before a new it was fake a applied
Yes i will be going with all information i am not going to give them any excuse to sanction me
What I have done is setup 5 searchs :
5 mile general search (3 day)
10 mile general radius search (today)
20 mile general radius search (today)
20 mile administration search (today)
20 mile call centre,helpdesk,microsoft office search (today)
Have also setup email alerts from each of them as well.
I then go into them and copy the url and paste that into an open office document (I did used to copy and paste in the activity log but printing out from that is a mess).
If there are no jobs suitable I put this.
I have had no problems from my jcp about doing this. (it shows you are looking even if no suitable jobs come up).
Also does your JCP just want UJM and no other job agency boards listed in your job search???
If a use any other site a have to put on ujm that a did in the activity log .
I suspect they will be changing my jobseeker agreement at present it says look jobseeker direct 3 times a week they are changing peoples agreement
The now when i search i save the search but they don’t have access so they don’t know the jobs that a never applied for the search just says all jobs
I never list the jobs I am have not applied for and never use that stupid button on ujm at the bottom of any job I look at.
Yeah the activity log is the best place to log everything from other sites, just play the game and try and get a job any best way you can (tough at present, although once the tax year is sorted in april think jobs will be put out there again).
My jsag was changed roughly 4 to 5 weeks ago to look/use UJM 5 times a week.
It seems as though your jcp advisers seem to be making it ultra tough for you and other job seekers when they should not be.
Not sure what the solution is really as have not been in that situation.
When you mean printouts is it Activity history & Application history you got to show at JCP.
Also what do you cut & paste into an open office document, is that Activity history or Application history.
Printouts :- I use the activity log, record everything you do job search wise on this (UJM and also log any other job boards you use etc).
Also record any job applications you have made in the activity log (I have not seen it automatically log a job you apply for in the log, so manually add it).
I found printing out the activity log can be very messy though, so for the A4 sheet,I do my UJM search using the saved searchs and open up each one in a new browser tab.
What I put on my A4 sheet (if no suitable jobs have been found)
March 19th
10 Mile UJM – no suitable jobs
and then copy and paste the 10 mile search url underneath this.
Same with 20 Mile etc
If I do find a job I put down (from an agency board such as reed) : (I also print out the details they send to your email address).
March 19th
Applied for job (description), location, job reference number and the email address of the person cv was sent to.
If it was from UJM I just put the job reference number and any contact details and a brief job description.
The way I do it satisfys my UJM and JSAG contract.
Might be a bit long winded but covers everything.
You may need to discuss doing this with your adviser though,
Hope that helps
the comments on bbc site are worth a note, apparently according to one, we are meant to thank wealthy earners..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21740450
When I signed on I show em the activity log screen print but they also wanted to see the Application history but I havn’t apply for any jobs on UJ, the jobs i’ve apply for have been from other sites like reed,gumtree & various other sites.
When I next time see them should I tell them about the UJ toolkit
Chapter 3.
Actively Seeking Employment
82. We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of
their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this.
Or Not?
This look or use UJM 5 times a week. I take it then you can browse the site, but there is no requirement to log on i take it
I signed on yesterday and the adviser said it was now mandatory to give the jobcentre access to my account, but I haven’t read anything that backs up her claim. Has anything changed? I’m pretty sure she was just flat out lying about that. She also said that from now on I have to use the activity log on my UJM account to record what I do to to look for work, is that true?
Not according to the toolkit notes and the recent (march 14th) FOI request.
You can use the activity log to record everything you do and print it out.
Printing out is quite messy though, but it proves you are using it.
The links to the toolkit and the FOI are in previous posts.
FoI request answered on 13th March 2013.
“Access to your Universal Jobmatch account is only available to DWP staff once you have given your consent; this is on a voluntary basis. There are no plans to make this mandatory …………………….”
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/mandatory_dwp_access#incoming-369039
Well then, seems that particular adviser was telling porkies! I knew it.
Not sure what is going on with certain JCP advisers, whether they are ignoring the information given to them or are being pressured from their own bosses?
They must know people can get hold of the toolkit pdf or the FOI requests?
There doesn’t seem to be any consistency – some advisers say giving them access is mandatory, others don’t, some say you have to print out your activity log, and others just check your written jobsearch diary, and then there’s others who don’t even bother looking at it at all! Ridiculous.
I think you can work out which ones care for there job,hate there job,hate there clients or want to help there clients from this kind of inconsistancy.
My jobcentre won’t give me any jobsearch diary .
its UJ or nothing don’t know what they will do if UJ ever goes down
No other form of jobsearch activity recording is exceptable Yet as previous said it says in toolkit about it that they cannot say to a jobseeker how to keep a record of there jobsearch activity Then further on says However, Universal Jobmatch will be a key tool you can use in appropriate
cases to review whether a claimant has taken all reasonable steps to have
the best prospects of finding work. Was in other day someone was worried because she never knew how to use a pc and expected a sanction
@Just what is their obsession / fixation with awful mess of a system??? IT DONT WORK SO DROP IT..
@kam thats their job…
To lie? Well to be fair, the first time the issue of giving them access came up it was with a different adviser and he said straight away “you’re well within your rights not to give us access” and that was that. I suppose it just depends on who you get on the day.
@kam maybe but i cant help thinking that they’ve been trained to think of unemployed people as lying theiving bastards or what the daily heil call ‘the criminal underclass’..
Not my previous posts, cannot remember who posted them and the relevant passages from them.
Seems as though certain area JCPS are making things up (or using scare tactics again).
They would have all been sent the toolkit as well (whether they read it is another matter/can of worms).
If you are getting hassle I would :
a) give them your email address you signed up with UJM
b) DO NOT give dwp access
c) upload a cv and set to private (it records in activity log you have uploaded a cv, does not state private or not).
d) do your normal UJM job search (and log in the activity log)
e) do your normal job board/agency job search (and log everything in the UJM activity log).
f) any jobs you apply for get copys and printouts or screengrabs of the job application/reference number and contact email address (log all this in the activity log as well).
Please note messages logged on the activity log longer than 90 days are deleted in UJM (so keep a copy somewhere of everything you do on a seperate piece of paper as well).
If you cannot afford to print out the logs etc, you can print to file and save that on a usb stick or google drive, you can then hopefully use a library to print this out or use a job centre IAD.
Also have a print out of the tookit with the relevant sections highlighted.
I would like to respond by saying a signed on today and as said previous in the comments never gave them access to my account well one fornight ago i was told it was it was mandatory to give them access But pulled out my FOI dated 28th of february saying it was not mandatory she showed someone then came back and said it was in special circumstances you never had to give them access And it would be harder for me cause a would have to print everything out . Forward on to today a different advisor said have you got your prints out a had printed off 8 pages of activity history she looked it said thats fine No mention of access for them she was right its harder because i have to print out activity history next time i will be using there printer
I have a pc but sure as hell won’t use mine to be monitored using mine . 3 times each week i’m using their pc you have to log out jobmatch then log out the pc to clear everything .
A must reply to a previous comment by someone who said activity history don’t show if your cv is set to private well i made mine private and it says in activity history i set it to private jobcentre never noticed today
I did not realise it showed up on your activity log that the cv was set to private or public – sorry about that.
Easiest way is to print the activity log to file, save on usb stick and print it out at job centre.
A would do that but there is no usb drive just three monitors Iwill be using their pc weekly so when its my sign on day the day before i will book my time to use it and print it off . This crap is no real if your not forwarned your not forearmed. they would tell you everything is mandatory if your daft to believe it
When I signed on I show em the activity log screen print but they also wanted to see the Application history but I havn’t apply for any jobs on UJ, the jobs i’ve apply for have been from other sites like reed,gumtree & various other sites.
When I next time see them should I tell them about the UJ toolkit
Chapter 3.
Actively Seeking Employment
82. We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of
their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this.
Or Not?
I know this a repeat but no ones mention the application history you can to show em at JCP, I take it nobody has had this problem?
The activity history shows all jobs any way so application history is no needed . With regards to 82. We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of
their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this.
further on it states
84. However, Universal Jobmatch will be a key tool you can use in appropriate
cases to review whether a claimant has taken all reasonable steps to have
the best prospects of finding work
Myself have never been asked for application history.
So I don’t need show JCP the application history.
They are using scare tactics again to look at my account which I’ve havn’t give access to JCP & DWP.
And thanks Dzwasp for telling me the CV, I’m gonna update my CV & just put my name & E-Mail address only, no home address & phone number
I think it is unbelevable what there exspecting of peaple to do they want peaple to use the universal jobmatch website but what they don’t seem to realise is that what about peaple who haven’t got computers or that how they ment to use the website with a computer they never seem to thing about these things really I think its awfull even getting peaple to use the website
ME again a sent a FOI to DWP on the 11 . 03 . 13 after being told it was manadatory to give them access this is the main point a want you all to see
1 On my recent signing day a was told by the jobcentre that a could no longer keep a log of my jobsearching activity in paper form and all jobsearch activity records would need to be on universal jobmatch can you confirm this? As paragraph 82 of universal jobmatch toolkit states We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this.
their responce
The advice quoted in your request is incorrect.
Claimants who have given their adviser access to their Universal Jobmatch (UJ) account will not have to provide written/printed evidence of the jobsearch activities they have undertaken within UJ as the adviser will be able to view this directly in their account However, this does not mean that a claimant should no longer provide evidence of other jobsearch activities they have undertaken outside of the UJ service Within UJ there is the facility for claimants to also record any other jobsearch activities they have done in addition to that on UJ. When assessing whether a claimant has done all that is reasonably expected of them to look for work, UJ should not be viewed in isolation and the claimant may choose to provide or be asked to provide other evidence to support this
5 If I have been issued with a direction to register on Universal Jobmatch do I have to give DWP access to my account?
6 When a JSA claimant registers and sets up a profile on Universal Jobmatch they will be asked to tick a box to give DWP access to view their account What action can be taken if they do not tick this box?
7 If a person claiming job seekers Allowance refuses to give dwp permission to access there universal job match account. will they be sanctioned? even though they have set up and are using the universal job match account what law gives dwp the right to force a person to sign a form (permission to access there universal job match account) under threat of a sanction.
Their responce
Access to your Universal Jobmatch account is only available to DWP staff once you have given your consent this is on a voluntary basis.
This is not online i emailed them could put it online if need be responce date 22 03 13
.
.
.
The way I see it – you do not have to give DWP access.
Why certain JCP advisers are insisting/forcing people to do this still when FOI requests and toolkits are still saying it is voluntary I do not know. ( I would think they would be setting themselves up for a complaint)
As long as you prove you are doing a job search and doing all you can to get a job (and have proof) then that should be good enough for your JCP adviser.
if be log all job seek activity on the activity log and print to file to a usb stick and use the JCP to get it printed out.
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Meh… For some reason my original post “disappeared” so I am posting it again…
For all of you who have responded to my previous plea for help (dzwasp & refusenik in particular) – a big thank you!
A bit of an update: I wrote a complaint and am still awaiting a response on this (apparently, they’ve extended the response period to 15 working days – this is not 10 any more).
I also decided at the end to attend the interview, but not to participate in it and give my advisor a letter that I have agreed to attend that interview under duress, stating that it is my belief the whole reason for setting it up in the first place was simply because I did not give them access to my UJ account (they admitted as much at least twice and I do have that on tape) and then leave without participating any further.
So, that is precisely what I did the next day – after turning up, I was asked by the advisor to confirm my details (name, address, dob – the usual crap) after which I dropped the bombshell and told him that I am giving this letter and terminating the interview, pointing out that the reasons for doing this are contained in the letter.
The response, after reading my letter, was “you can’t terminate this interview”. After a couple of minutes of going like “will you, won’t you” I was then told that “we are just going to do a job search” (the letter I was given prior to that on the previous day was stating “helping you back to work interview” and “discussing your JSA agreement” and had nothing to do with a job search).
At the end (this was about 10 minutes after I came in) the advisor relented and said “I am terminating this interview then” after which I left the building.
Now comes the nasty part – today when I attended my sign-in meeting I was greeted with “your claim has been closed”. I then asked what was the reason, when was that done and why wasn’t I told about this?
It was explained to me that I haven’t attended the interview (the one I handed the letter over) and that is why the claim was closed (this was done on the same day I had the “interview” – no notice of any sort whatsoever).
I tried to explain to my advisor that he remembers very well that I did came in, but he was having none of it and told me the fact that I came in and even though I confirmed my details with the same person, apparently, “doesn’t count” and “it is treated as FTA” (failure to attend), which I think is absolute rubbish!
Forgot to mention that I do have that meeting (with the “interview”) on tape too and can present this as evidence.
So, as things stand, my claim has been closed and that means I am not going to get my money this week.
The questions I have for the more knowledgeable on here:
1. Do these people have the right to shut down my claim for FTA, even though they pretty well know that I did attend, without even letting me know this for two weeks? How is this allowed? Are they obliged to tell me that my claim is closed, because I’ve got nothing whatsoever and the first time I knew about this is when I spoke to my advisor today (nearly 2 weeks after the claim was closed).
2. Is there an appeal process I could use to overturn their decision to close my claim, because it is pretty evident to me that I did attend and handed a letter, not to mention that I confirmed my details during my “attendance” and so on, even though dwp staff is telling me that “I have not attended”?
Also, both the advisor as well as the other person who came in during the meeting said that the reason for setting the interview up was because I refused to give them access to my UJ account (something I don’t have to do)!
The advisor told me that, apparently, there isn’t an appeal process and when a claim is closed that’s it. I phoned our regional office to ask this, and was told that this is not correct and there is an avenue when a claim is closed “by mistake” and for this to happen the advisor needs to call the regional office and tell them this.
As if he is going to do that…
3. If I can’t reopen my old claim, can I use a rapid reclaim? If so, do I have to go through everything as I did from the beginning (via the work programme and all that crap – I was 3 months away from getting out of it) – how does that work (provided I could go through rapid reclaim that, is), anyone know?
How long does this take and how long before I start getting money again? Are they likely to impose a sanction before that (for “not attending” from my previous claim)? Ideally, I’d like to go through an appeal though…
Many thanks once again for any help…
bloody hell sorry to hear that happened.
I would try and speak to CAB and possibly ACAS and also your local MP.
If you have the recording, get a couple of copies and also get it transcribed.
I would also look on the DWP site about this and also appealing.
Looks as though your adviser has got it in for you 😦
Not sure if they can close a claim completely (they can sanction you, but you should have got documentation detailing what the sanction was for) :
Lower level sanctions (for example for failing to attend an adviser interview) will lead to claimants losing all of their JSA for a fixed period of four weeks for the first failure, followed by 13 weeks for subsequent failures (within a 52 week period of their last failure)
Appeals process :
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/adviser/updates/appls-process-changesl/
hi everyone i recently joined jobcentre in feb 2013 im 21 and live in a rented home with my partner and young baby lost my job (layed off in feb )with crazy bills to pay and no other job in site i had no choice to sign on i sined on as usual and got introduced to this uj thing went through all the shit didnt think much of it at first NOW a month in to my claim i have been sanctioned for 5 weeks for not using there poxy site. i genuinly lost user name i told my advisor i had lost it he basically there n then refured me to someone eles to say i had not activley seeked work with in the set dates of 8 to 21st of march . i was livid with this on 13th id been at landrover all day doing tests and allsorts i didnt no it was mandatory anyways this site but nice of him to tell me it was from like the 3rd so i went back a week later and by this time i was supost to tell me what the decider had said as i never got a letter i took it in to my own hands to ask what was happening he told me i had not been sucsessful with the decition maker no written letter has still been recived about any of it so i asked how am i suppost to suport my family as im young and it ent half hard as im learning he basically said not our problem ask freinds and family what a joke they have there own problems with things aprt from bailing me out most this sytem stinks so now im having to ask for money of people for my babies health and safety basically countrys fucked up and this is dicusted me so much how do they expect me to live also have to go there and prove im still looking on there and applying or i cud lose my to eat my self lol for a futher 3 months in the period between this happening i has a all day interview for dhl at landrover and am awaiting a start date now 🙂 fingercrossed this is still not enough i dnt no how hard they want u to try any more trying any harder id be done for working lol its a joke and they wonder why yooung people are turning to crime n shit playing a dangerous game these bastards hate em all !!!! also one to the jobcentre how they expect me to get to appointments when theve moved me to a 30 min away jobcentre for 18 to 24 year olds with no money atall jokers if i never turned up id be sactioned so looks like a hour walk on thirsday for no money redculous considering going to a local mp does anyone no who can help defintly got horlicks to sleep them fuck heads thanks for listening
I believe you can use the site without logging in just that it won’t show on your details they may have forced out of you. You also do not have to give them any access to your search on the site you can do a print out. Look on agency sites for the same job that are advertised on the JCP site you may find that the same job advertised on the agency site requires qualifications whereas the one on the JCP site says no qualifications required.
Before UJ they tried with me to say I wasn’t making an effort then I hit them with the altering of job adverts and they never bothered me again it was just sign here see you in 2 weeks
@Nayfe – Really sorry to hear this has happened. We are all disgusted, so you’re not on your own there. Your idea of talking to a local MP is a good one & might do some good. Some people think going to local paper is a good idea but you’re maybe too busy/preoccupied … I know I would be. (If you can get in & they’re not completely snowed under Citizens’ Advice Bureau sometimes give helpful advice).
I don’t know much about the ins & outs of how, but you can appeal a sanction – might be more about this in the comments above here and have a look at Consent.me website. (Could ask at Job centre as they should advise about it … but maybe not).
Universal Jobmatch isn’t mandatory, but they’ve been saying they are ‘going to make it mandatory for some people’ and this is being questioned by many people on Consent.me website (via Freedom of Information Requests). No-one is quite sure yet how they can legally do this (The right to a private life/Private Correspondence is already enshrined in law). They plan to do it ‘for some people’ via a jobseekers’ direction – & it doesn’t sound like you had one of those & it does sound like you were making strenuous efforts to find work. (But sometimes, it’s never enough). You can untick the box that gives access for jcp to look at your account or if this has now changed (I’ve not kept up although made an account rarely use it as it’s mainly a sanction trap), close it/reopen another one and don’t allow access -as far as I can understand it anyway. As below, you can use the s(h)ite without logging in – just go on to it, write ref etc. down but it’s the very worst of any site you could use -not just because of the possible sanction-effect but for lots of other reasons – (too many to go into).
JCP/DWP have been issuing these sorts of sanctions left, right & centre whenever they think they can get away with it (often to younger claimants, but not always) – lots of us have been able to narrowly avoid them ’til now but they have been shown in national news to have been set ‘targets’ by managers & have to try to sanction a certain number/month to meet their target (or it goes on record etc.).
It’s made me so angry reading your account – I don’t even want to suggest the use of food banks but they do exist (shouldn’t need to but this is one of the reasons why they’ve sprung up). There’ll be one somewhere near you if you are really stuck – and you won’t be the first to have been put in this position by their petty penny-pinching nastiness.
Best of luck with the job at Landrover – really hope it works out for you and that you can somehow manage til then – you shouldn’t have been put in this position with a family to support.
Sorry, I didn’t read further back – the link to sanctions appeal process is just above posted by dzwasp – unless i have misunderstood & you’ve already tried/been through this. Good luck.
I must be really unlucky then. I’ve been on JSA for a few months now. They have never _made_ me join UJM. All I ever have to do every two weeks is to fill in a green Jobsearch sheet “proving” I’ve applied for 3 jobs a week, whether from UJM or elsewhere. It just gets the most cursory inspection, and I get my JSA a few days later. I’ve been sanctioned, but only because I left my prev job voluntarily (fair enough, I suppose). Where do people get the idea that UJM is mandatory ?
It’s very random. My JCP have been very upfront on more than one occasion about saying that it’s in the hands of ‘advisers’ to decide what they think/believe may be appropriate in each individual case as per what to ‘advise’ and/or require people to do.
They’ve also confirmed to me (I didn’t ask for this information) that each JCP has similar dispensation – to interpret the ‘rules’ in the most apprpritate way they prefer – in fact, there are hardly any hard and fast rules – which seems to explain why there are many and varying accounts to be heard on sites like this one – and probably if we took the opportunity to confer with others when we go to sign on about their experiences. It’s all in the way that things are explained by each individual ‘adviser’ to their customer at any particular point in the day and if you listen hard enough there are plenty of variations to be heard in how ‘information is put across’ – they may be subtle but they’re conscious – so that the person being ‘informed’ takes the meaning to be literal and sometimes even ‘a requirement’.
This is what’s happened on a mass scale (so far as I can tell) with UJ. The managers have to read what come to them from ‘on high’ and interpret, disseminate it as they feel ‘appropriate’ to their staff, who do the same to their ‘customers’ – hence the ‘targets’/’no target’ interpretation, depending on what information we get to see or hear about from which job centre and (crucially) how it’s worded.
This is just my interpretation. I’ve been threatened with every other week ‘contact’ (one week in person/the next by phone) and this lasted precisely one fortnight – and then was never mentioned again. It was as a direct response to me saying initially that I didn’t plan on registering/even using UJ). I’ve since changed adviser’s – they changed me. I’ve told that “some people are asked to attend every day” – but that’s probably not like to be appropriate for “someone like me” – they are completely random in their treatment of us and think they know what will work best in each case/what’s appropriate. My experience is this is at least partly based on how they ‘perceive’ someone at least as much as what they might have in their job history – how someone looks/sounds/whether they use big words and seem to be ‘playing along’ – whether this is believed to be genuine or not from either side.
The two advisers I’ve beet put with are like too sides of the same coin (almost like good cop/bad cop). Bad cop was the first one – for me – she either thought I would be sanction-able (twice) or just thought I was annoying to her and decided to go ahead and try – or was just more ‘diligent’ in doing the bit of her job she thought she should try hard to do. ‘Good cop’ has been there many more years – so perhaps doesn’t have as much to prove to his manager/customers or is just a less ‘motivated’ person or a more human(e) one. I could go on but it’s just a personal perspective.
– with apologies for typos/dodgy-spellings – a rush of blood to the head thinking back over the various changed/mis-informations since October-last.
It’s clearer all the time that – in JCP-terms, there’s little or no room for the idea that it could be possible for (even one) ‘customer’ to experience even a small degree of distress about what’s going on around them locally/nationally – regarding inherent injustices in the so-called system. JCP ‘advisers’ allege to see us as ‘individuals’ – to extremes. (This can seem like a good thing at first – until understood as meant in this context).
For certain of us, at least, this can engender feelings of real uncertainty or insecurity, on experiencing the constant changes/non-rules and possible rules. A not-yet-tested theory is it’s probably ‘novel’ – if not unheard of – in JCP-speak – for someone to have feelings of outrage/concern at any level wider than ‘just’ in regard to their own actual, or potential JCP-related experiences. (We are such ‘individuals’, don’t know our fellow claimants – their thoughts/feelings/concerns/experiences). Why should we have any concern for them? Even knowing that the system is as precarious and nefarious as it is, “We only have ourselves to worry about” – so if we do hear that someone was sanctioned for whatever reason, ‘not to worry – it’s not us’ – and “That person must have been deserving of it”.
This isn’t openly stated – or sometimes it is – but is part of the underlying relief of ‘everything’s okay this time’ after each ‘advisor interview’ passes – and is straight from the pages of ‘1984’. It should be highlighted/ talked about as detrimental and involving collusion/fundamental dishonesty. They easily lead to feelings of criminality (via collusion) – this can evoke harmful short-term/maybe longer-term (psychological/health) effects. This is extra to the ‘everyday’ stress factors of unemployment – uncertainty/money issues etc. – unnecessary extra stress, which will affect some more than others & varies from mild to more extreme and from person to person. In light of this, “Is UJ mandatory or not?” isn’t the most important of the many questions that need to be asked/answered regarding current DWP/Jobcentre Plus practices for “helping people … etc.” – even if there are plenty of people waiting to hear how they are to be (using what measures) required to use UJ (not least the many already being ‘sanctioned’ as a result of its use/non-use).
Either the JCPs are making it up as they go along, or they are deliberately fucking with our minds. One adviser told me UJ is definately not mandatory; another told me it is, but that they’re not enforcing it yet.
They seem to be operating on a case by case basis. Making it mandatory for some; but not for others. It’s a type of mission-creep. They won’t do a blanket enforcement because they know it will be unworkable; they simply haven’t got the staff to do this. They seem to be picking us off one by one. They instinctively go for the weak ones; people who haven’t got the confidence to answer back; or people who will go into orbit; thus giving the JC a legitimate reason to sanction them. It’s like a form of psychological kettling.
@Blinkey Betheringham – completely agree. All of the above.
Just read about Ipswich’s JCP giving some kind of mass directive though – via “we don’t have the old forms any more so open an account & make print outs …”
For the record I have a UJ account & no intention of allowing JCP access to it – I think it’s important to have other options (job sites/specific job adverts found elsewhere etc. to be able to record any applied for – I just write them down on a piece of paper which is accepted).
I’ve had sight of (just in last few days) a flow-chart giving overview of what’s (supposedly) available in local libraries here – including city centre (in terms of ‘support’ to allow mass registering on UJ – via basic workshop/IT sessions; one-to-one ?tuition with library staff – whichever is relevant – and projected waiting times for each). Also states that where there’s a ‘shortfall’/not enough staff to help each person there’s the option to refer to careers centre/local job clubs for similar advice/help. Sounds as if (on paper) they’ve got it ‘covered’ for ‘all claimants’ to have an account sooner rather than later … (I think this wasn’t for public viewing but it’s been sent to me via a job-related course recently attended … perhaps I was meant to receive it).
It’s fairly certain they’ll get many more people ‘signed up’ this way even despite all the practical problems. It feels all wrong (& has done from first mention) & doesn’t inspire confidence insofar it’s supposed to be some kind of ‘plank’ to use with regard to people who need to claim Universal Credit/who are looking for work … …. …. …
An actual account isn’t so much a problem – being told to rely on it or mandated to use it/provide proof is another thing altogether.
@shirleynott
I don’t have a UJ account and nor have I been told to create one. But according to my JSAg, I do have one and I’m supposed to check it 3 times a week.
Like yourself, I just write down what I’ve been doing on a sheet of paper and it is accepted. I think having a positive attitude when you talk to the adviser when you sign can count in your favour. If they believe you’re “pulling your weight” with your job search, I have found generally they don’t hassle you. Although I have to say I find it pretty demeaning having to suck up to these creeps just to keep them on-side as it were.
Another funny thing is I’ve never been asked to provide actual evidence of my job search, i.e. emails/letters to or from employers. I think this might have something to do with the Data Protection Act. I think this falls under what the act calls a subject access request involving other people’s information. To check up on you, they need your permission to reveal your identity to a prospective employer; and that permission has to be given freely.
Another thing: I don’t like this whole smoke-and-mirrors approach the JC has towards UJ. There is nothing concrete; nothing in writing. When I was put on the Work Programme, I had to come into the JC for an interview where I was given a letter, which I had to sign for stating if I wanted to continue getting JSA, I had to take part in the WP. It also said what the penalties were if I didn’t attend, i.e. a sanction. I haven’t had a letter stating that creating a UJ account is mandatory and I don’t know anyone who has.
As distasteful as I find it, I can actually see why a lot of people are dancing on Thatcher’s grave. UJ is just another aspect of her ongoing legacy to the British people.
Since it become mandatory a have been taken my prints outs as a got told all jobsearch acctivity was to be recorded on universal jobmatch
So they stopped given me job logs and said if i never gave them access they would require more informating than was in my job log
So i use their pc to use universal jobmatch and was taken print outs as requested Today i sign on she checks my print outs and says i’m going to go see if you can go back to using a job log comes back says don’t bring print outs gives me a job log and says i have to use that
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My sons jobseeker agreement is getting ridiculous this is what they are asking him to do…….baring in mind he has no internet access ./ printers and has been snactioned aswell for the last 4 weeks for not signing up to agencys (when he had) and not bringing in his cv to them when he said he was struggling to find a printer they said go to connexions and print it out there…he did a few days later but still got sanctioned.
Heres his agreement:
Apply for 3 jobs a week
Apply for 3 apprenticeships a week
Visit 3 employers a week
Write to 3 employers a week
Telephone 3 employers a week
There are some other things I cant recall, but since they bullied him and threatened him into signing up to UJM which I did for him online and hes not allowed them access as I know its just leaving a door open for them to sanction him more than they already have done! So his advisor got snotty and said his jobsearch was not good enough (a full list of job reference numbers is no use now) and she demanded next time he has to print off every single job search he has done from UJM…when told again he has no access to the net and cant afford to print out hes simply told to go to connexions and print it out there.
I am calling connexions tomorrow to make them aware that jobcenter advisers are sending claimants to them to use their printers and internet resources when they should be offering those claimants access to their IADS in the office to put a stop to this, its plain abuse.
The rules also state that advsors shouls be putting it in their notes on screen that claimant has not access to printer / internet so they DO NOT KEEP asking them to do things they cant do, and offer them the use of the IADS in the jobcenter. BUT NONE OF THE JOBCENTER STAFF ARE ADHERING TO THIS.
The thing is with your sons jobseeker agreement He has to agree to it so he must have agreed to those steps .You don’t have to and a decision maker desides .
Your sons jobcentre are been twisted he should print out when he can the toolkit and highlight it were it says they must take into account peoples circumstances and show them
A Sent a freedom of information to dwp about universal jobmatch cause it states they cannot deside how we keep a record of there jobsearch yet a was getting told that a was to use only universal jobmatch
On my recent signing day a was told by the jobcentre that a could no longer keep a log of my jobsearching activity in paper form and all jobsearch activity records would need to be on universal jobmatch can you confirm this? As paragraph 82 of universal jobmatch toolkit states We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this
the reply
The advice quoted in your request is incorrect Claimants who have given their adviser access to their Universal Jobmatch (UJ) account will not have to provide written/printed evidence of the jobsearch activities they have undertaken within UJ as the adviser will be able to view this directly in their account However, this does not mean that a claimant should no longer provide evidence of other jobsearch activities they have undertaken outside of the UJ service Within UJ there is the facility for claimants to also record any other jobsearch activities they have done in addition to that on UJ. When assessing whether a claimant has done all that is reasonably expected of them to look for work, UJ should not be viewed in isolation and the claimant may choose to provide or be asked to provide other evidence to support this
My jobseeker agreement says a have to check direct gov uk 3 times a week and check the papers weekly nothing else i’m on the work programe and don’t send spec letters like companies wait till someone sends a letter to them to hire a told the jobcenter that ages ago
Thought it would be changed when universal jobmatch came into force but it never likely because when i slipped up and said a had an account they said it was mandatory a used it but denied them access They said it was mandatory to give them access a showed them another freedom of information stating it wasn’t that’s when they started asking for print outs after that now a don’t know what they are playing at now saying don’t bring print outs just your job log i use their pc so they know i’m using jobmatch so perhaps that has something to do with it
If forty hours jobsearch comes into force then a don’t know what will happen to me
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Hes not understood that he had any choice to agree to anything the way it was presented to him was not something that was discussed he was told he had to do this and sign here regarding that jobseeker agreement. I am going to be trying to attend an appointment with him to get that JSAG re done to a more sensible one though.
I find knowing their rules better than them helps shut these little hitlers up when you get one of them, some of the advisors are nice but to many are real power trippers.
Make sure if you use their pc that you have COMPLETELY logged when you completed your job search.
Ps. (You’re right – some are fine and even seem like ‘nice’ people). But I think that the way things have been going/continue to be heading they’re being pressured themselves more & more to impose and enforce these horrendous rules -we all know where it’s originating from. I went to see the manager of ‘my’ section at the job centre & she actually couldn’t have been nicer – but still more or less said at the end “We’re not all comfortable with all of this either but it’s what we have to do”. Think there are increasingly staff members struggling with what they’re having to do and going off sick/suffering from stress. I’ve thought before – I wouldn’t want their job – although ‘a’ job would be a welcome relief.
Yes a always log out there pc take no chances i have a pc but they want me to use universal jobmatch i will be using their one .Yes going with him would be a great idea seems rather unfair the present agreement and there attitude
(They have lost the plot and are beyond ridiculous).
Apologies this is definitely a rant.
– No other workplaces/larger-sized organisation would opt to demand that their employees print out pages and pages on a regular basis if there was an alternative option (paper/printer ink costs and the issue of what to do with the paper afterwards – whether it gets recycled).
It’s difficult when they do decide to insist on something – it’s presented in such a way as ‘this is what we’re asking people to do’ but it often turns out to be something they’re asking some people to do, not everyone. They phrase their ‘suggestions/requests’ in a way that leaves no doubt you shouldn’t raise objections/refuse and default to some form of ‘punishment’ if you stick to your guns – at least some of the time.
These people are despicable. What we’ve now got is something that’s going to make people spend time travelling to and fro to places where they can access job sites however many times/week and print off the evidence that they went there and did that. Bus fares/travelling time & associated costs – none of these are taken into account. They know how much someone on JSA is being expected to manage on/week but it’s as if that’s entirely separate to the ‘modern world’ JCP now says it lives in – and it is.
It’s good that your son has your support – not everyone will have that and I’m beginning to notice that young people are about as vulnerable as anyone else in there to being sanctioned – for whatever reasons this might be – whether they tell themselves “they’re not old enough to have to really fend for themselves and someone will help them out because they’re young” and “they won’t argue back” or just think they can insist more if someone is younger. It’s hard whatever age you are – I’m finding it very difficult week on week. I’m wondering whether you discussed appealing the sanction – I haven’t been in that situation yet but feeling as though it’s only a matter of time (people on here usually recommend appealing unless there’s clearly no point – but usually is worth doing, even just in case).
I’m fairly sure that recent Freedom of Information requests say
“we can’t dictate to you how you present evidence of your job search” but it’s possible that’s been re-written/got round even since then and/or they’ve decided they can “for some people”. There are people who don’t print anything off from UJ and just write down the jobs they’ve looked at/applied for – but other forms of job search still being accepted with those people also/UJ not completely pushed – I think it’s where people expressed strong objections early on in the process and somehow made a convincing enough case for continuing to use alternatives – I’m still being nudged towards it but only fairly half-heartedly – but also there’s been a series of pushes to get people to sign up to it in all kinds of different ways. Very recently I’ve seen something locally which indicated that JCPs are ‘teaming up’ with libraries/careers service & etc. to ‘deliver’ UJ and make it the default method for job seekers … which doesn’t sound great as careers service have always said to me they are separate from job centre so not party to the pressures they apply to people. It was sent to me via email (from my housing association?! – they’re ‘in on it’ too).
UJ – if I need to I write down the job reference/details (would only apply for the job if they had their own website to approach direct rather than from the UJ site). I don’t know what their argument is with accepting written details of jobs applied for elsewhere or on that site (or, I suppose I do – but what argument they actually put forward about not accepting alternative forms of ‘proof/?’). Until recently, it was acceptable for them to look at a handwritten job record – it should be about the message not the medium & not everyone has a PC/Computer. Someone could have written three of their job search letters in the time taken to go and make the print outs – it’s to keep everyone running around in circles fulfilling criteria (sorry I’m getting really cross).
I have a feeling that if he called their bluff (not suggesting this, just speculating) they would in the final analysis cave in and accept one page of details – even in biro on paper. Because no-one has been able to get one story – though, I realise it’s not that simple and there are some threatening statements being put out “It has always been our intention to make UJ mandatory for some people” etc. Sorry – just rambling because it’s my turn tomorrow and I feel as defensive on behalf of many other people as I do on my own behalf just at the moment. Good luck & I hope he can continue to deal with their pettiness until he manages to find something.
Please view this recently uploaded information video on UJ:
Just told today that I must sign up to Universal Job Match or risk sanction. They have me over a barrel and tomorrow they are going to lay down the law in interview. Bollox! I will NOT be signing or agreeing. I have a good understanding of my digital rights….they cannot insist. The site strips individuals of their rights, it is insecure, open to identity fraud and completely irrespsonible: it is an infringement on democracy & conservative values and if enforced will be in violation of UK & Eupopean Law of a free-market (requiring Monopolies Commission involvement) and it is simply ill-concieved and half-assed. Secure 3rd party recrutiment agency companies which I am already registered with and use reguarly supply everything I require. I WILL NOT BE SIGNING OR REGISTERING> DO NOT ALLOW THIS ON YOUR JOB SEEKERS AGREEMENT. IDS is a pomopus, overpaid toffee nosed tosser who needs himself to do a fair days ethical work instead of blighting the lives of peole down on their luck seeking work. The UJM system is simply a vehicle to persecute, erode your rights and steal your entitlement as a citizen !! DO NOT AGREE
Thanx to all those above
They can Issue you a job seeker direction to sign up to the UJM but you can challenge that by showing them how you will look for work without using that system. If the JSD is still allowed by a the decision maker then you can insist that they provide you with an IAD (internet access device) in their office, sign up there, put a blank cv (they cant see what you uploaded just the fact you put a cv) they can mandate you to use their IAD to search UJM in their office if they believe it will help you find work, its up to you to show how you can find work without it. They also have the right to ask to see printed screens of jobs you applied for on there again only if you used their IAD and printer. So dont let them sanction you, play them by their own rules.
Well said.
I_am_Spartacus, with you there all the way.
Signed on 2 weeks ago (sign today) and woman was all talking about the UJM and how much easier it would be rather than printing out sheets.
Ready today for them, have loads of printouts and no matter what will refuse to use UJM even on there own IAD device.
Unless they change the terms to guarantee the jobs posted are real and not scams,0 hours,commission only crap I will continue my job search how I do now, not on UJM.
George
I had to sign on today and people beware of their nasty tactics when you do not let them have access to your UJM. The grotbags that I got today asked me and its the 3rd time I got asked by different advisors now, and 3rd time I had to explain why, After I had finished telling her why shes not getting access to my DWP and I gave lots of good reasons, she suddenly turned and got my jobsearch that was up till now in her own words’ yes thats all fine’ and she said I want printed out screens of every single job you applied for! even ones off UJM.
I told her she cant dictate to me how I present my jobsearch and that paper was acceptable and Im happy to provide printed out screens of UJM applications however Im not going to get them printed off unless they give me access to a printer there.
She claims theres no IADS or access to printers in the jobcenter…(not my problem then!)
She then got my recent jobsearch and said she was going to check ALL the jobs I had recently applied for , and the fact I would not go to new connexions to print off a cv FOR HER PAPER WORK.and all the jobs I ever apply for..was me refusing to do as they ask. I told her I dont HAVE to do that when theres other ways of getting it to you, I told her let me email it then she agreed.
She said I have to prove I applied for the jobs I told her I am proving it theres nothing Im NOT doing, shes asking me to do things I dont have to do and I was not going to be manipulated by her either.
So watch out they will try and bully you once you dont give access…stand your ground. I have complained about this advisers ridiculous approach to me as well not that I think anything will be done but Im sending out the signals to them Im not one to be bullied by them pick on someone else.
Stand to Annty!
They are picking a fght with me too albeit they will not bully me and for sure…they will surely lose if they cry havoc and let loose their dogs of war. The judiciary will not be trampled over. Let them pull their
tinpot larcenous tactics before the Good of Europe. We are a tide.
WE are Spartus !!
**UPDATE TO UJM**
Asked them very nicely (always best to be nice ‘cos they always play dirty ….) to supply me with information so I could red about UJM in order to make my decison to consent…told them I couldn’t possibly agree to sometihing if I didn’t have it in writing and couldn’t first read THE FACTS and be given chance to absorb the information.. I was given the leaflets and told to read them (and weep or so they thought) ready for the next day TO SIGN> Went in next day as instructed and was told to sign, told them …you know what…i can’t see where it says it is mandatory that i must agree to give you this my consent to my data so you can use it without accepting any liabiltiy whatsoever! Asked them to show me, to point it out showing them the leaflets where it said it i msut. They couldn’t and backed down and said ok ….is isn’t mandatory…YET ! I explained why I would not agree to such a half-assed second rate system that was clearly so flawed and breached data protection laws and Citizen rights so flagrantly (see previous reasons posted so clearly by others (MANY THANKS) why not ….you have to be prepared to state these reasons t….hey will write them down).
My private opinioin, If there were jobs and hope and prospects why would there be SO many, an ever increasing number of us unemployed denied, shunned and targeted without mercy…a ground-swell that every very soon will be a tsunami? Why is it that a lost generation whose memory will haunt them forever in months and years and decades to come, be currently engaging in laying plans and mobilising…. to tear down the rot ! ‘Time for Civil Rising’ DEFO !! Same nasty tories in the seventies, eighties and nineties, same nasty tories now! Don’t believe their shit about labour causing the recession, I have witnessed it time and time again. Boom and BUST is a tory trait. That and persceution of the citizens on the shoulders of which their fat thieving asses balance so precariously. DWP staff are indeed the lapdogs of their puppet masters. They know they are in the wrong but they have yet to develop the backbone to stand up for that which they know is right…the rights of the customers that use their service, the rights of the poor, the sick and the vulnerable (or so they would like to think). UNITE AND STAND TOGETHER>>>>UNITE WHEREVER YOU ARE>>>>UNITE IN WHATEVER YOU CAN DO.>>>UNITE…FOR… THEY…WILL…FALL !
So this Morning I got a reply back from the complaint I submitted to the JC regarding the nasty treatment I received from my Adviser (see post above) and although I was surprised to get a reply I was not overly surprised the advisor would lie thorugh her back to teeth to get herself out of the accusations…either that and/or her manager helped her concoct excuses and lies .
I complained that she was trying to force me to go to newdirections for the sole purpose of printing of a CV for the JC to look at and also she was trying to make me get print screens from there of UJM job applications.
The advisor has out right lied and said she merely ‘suggested’ I use new directions for the SOLE purpose of printing my CV for employers.
Lie number one.
I complained that the IADS (internet access devices) were not being made available to me , I asked the adviser why cant I use them to print out my CV and all these UJM print outs for you? to which she said its not possible to print anything out , we dont have printing facility’s and mentioned some IADS were on the ground floor BUT No printing allowed!
Adviser has responded to this AGAIN by lying and saying she offered me IADS and printing by booking me an appointment to use that facility but I declined it…..LOL completely utterly lying her socks of and she knows it.
And that she said i cant use her personal computer to do it…again bollocks I made clear I want to use an IAD , she knows and I know we were talking about IADS not her personal computer I used the word over n over IAD LET ME USE IT.
LIE NUMBER TWO!
I complained she was questioning my jobsearch saying how do I know Im telling the truth as I wont let her access UJM to see my applications , and the response I got to this one was desperate to say the least.
“All advisers are aware that customers have the to choose weather DWP is allowed access to a claimants universal jobmatch account or not and would not alter their behavior /interactions with a customer based on this, however they are still obliged to establish that condiontiality and jobsearch requirements have been met for that fortnightly period. I have seen the job search details that were provided on this occasion and can understand that your aviser felt the need to seek clarification on some elements of this, notably the date that activities were undertaken as some of these are future dates in may, it is not unreasonable for an addvisor to discuss the contents of the job search as these conversations are intended to support claimants back to work. These discussions are not intended to discredit or cast doubt over your job search activities but rather they are intended to provide the advisor with a clear picture of the progress so far on and help identify any areas where additional support may be needed’
So just ignore the fact I put in the complaint that she had ALREADY deemed my job search acceptable it was ONLY after I refused access to UJM did she start trying to pick on my jobsearch AND she never ever mentioned to me any dates being ‘in the future’ there may be a clerical error on my part but it was not mentioned in any case and there was not ONE single thing she picked out and said this is not right all she said was how does she know I did not make all this up!, she was not concerned about DATES she was concerned if I was TRUTHFUL. and she was malicious her neck was all RED her face was aggressive.
LIE NUMBER 3
the jc adviser claims she offered me a choice to EMAIL.my cv and screen shots…she denies it was me who had to suggest that and the manager writes that “it appears that the adviser and
yourself have differing but genuinely held recollections about how the conversation turned to email address and what prompted the email address to be made available. As this interview was not recorded, it has not been possible to establish exactly what happened….”
So that completed LIE NUMBER 4 ……I got her bang to rights and all she could do was lie her way out of it the disgraceful woman she should not be trusted to be dealing with claimants with that attitude and lieing about them as well.
The letter confirmed that advisers should be putting it in the system RE claimants who deny DWP access to their accounts so they dont keep on asking them about it….got an apology for that.
And the letter ALSO confirms its acceptable for me to produce my jobsearch in written format and any UJM screen requested can be emailed or printed off from their office if requested. not as evil edna was trying too make me do print of ALL my jobsearch but no mention of her being wrong or even being asked about that one.
Now either I am mentally ILL , i.e a paranoid schizophrenic and I totally imagined the scenario with my adviser that day, and I have nothing better to do that complain and make things up OR we have a very VERY dishonest adviser. Nothing wrong with my memory OR my psychological well being ….I guess some people are just pathological liars there you have it folks these people are low lifes but Im glad I made her know she will NOT get away with bullying,
What concerns me is if this nasty adviser had got someone vunerable she could have very very easily sanctioned them or got them into territory where they could be sanctioned , she would have also caused them undue stress and worry, not to mention hardship if she managed to get a sanction in.
At the end of the day I am YET to hear of one single person that said my adviser told me I can print out my UJM screen shots / CV from the IADS in the office , or email them to them,….its never mentioned unless the customer mentions it, if a customer is unaware of this being open to them they just trot off to new directions/ connexions to please the adviser, what happens if new directions or connexions is sooo far away from them and they for for whatever reason couldnt get there or did not know they could claim the bus fare (because the advisers will never tell you that you can claim bus fare for this) they would turn up no cv, no print outs and get sanctioned and it happens probably every day.
I will reply back and let it be known this person is an out right liar, at the end of the day its her word against mine thats what it comes down so my advice would be to people RECORD YOU MEETINGS WITH A DICTAPHONE to protect yourself against rogue advisers like this one.
Dont let them know just pop one in your bag and press record for your own peace of mind unless you got a really nice adviser that YOU always see of course.
Just to clarify regarding lie number one , the adviser actually claimed to her manager that she suggested me to go to new direcitons to print my CV of for the SOLE purpose of giving it out to employers… which is ANOTHER lie because she never said that at all it was just go to new directions to print out your cv so you can bring it in for us next time!
I was listening to new model armys stupid questions up loud when reading this.
problem is any complaint against a JCP adviser is going to be stacked against you 😦
Unless you can get video proof.
I don’t see how it can be stacked against you if you got them fair n square, that being said Ive yet to return to sign on and see how they treat me, Im expecting my job seekers agreement to be changed to include more activity’s AND I expect they will try and ship me off to A4E for their useless jobsearch skills day whatever it is (and I will fight going there to)
I can just imagine that grotbag adviser sitting in the staff canteen and telling her collegues all about that ‘know it all woman’ who complained about her , will it change her attitude to people? I dont know but maybe it will make her think twice, if another person complains about her its not going to look very good on her performance record is it….we all cant be liars.
Stick it to them!
Went to jobshop on an extracurricular invite today, to be told quite clearly unless i acquiess to ‘ticking the box’ ,
I WILL BE CALLED IN ‘EVERY FUCKING DAY’..
Until I do.
Mr void plse feel free to unbar us, I have 3 brothers using this pc and wireless kit.
fair enough, but one more racist rant from this ip address then thats it, I aint having it here. if its not you then set up a wordpress account and post via that.
Its a Euopean Right that all organisations respect your data Rights if they wish to ask you for your permission to register you on their servers. No company whether in the pocket of a tinpot government or otherwise can violate the Law. Unless you choose to give them permission they cannpt force you. If they do take them on. YOUR DATA YOUR CHOICE.
If they do …. I will ! Its all about reason. If you have good reason and explain your good reason for choosing to decline their very kind offer and can show you have a safer better systen already with responsible companies that yohr have contracted with privately already to act as your recruitment agencies then whos to say? As a free market democracy the cannot force illegal communist ideology in violation of European Law and free market agreement.
They are taking on .
They are taking on the Nation and Europe. Anyone lucky to be in work at the minute….your day will come !! UJM is a vehicle to steal. Fucking Nazis did it; now its the tories. Shame on you tory sympsthisers….your card is marked, change your shameful ways now!!!
Time to topple a regime…
data protection act links :
http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=796
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29
and thanks
Just catching up, also to say I have managed to get a job. Well to be fair my work programme got me the job (prospects), in fact prospects have really helped out as they are paying 1 months travel costs and also paid for trousers and shoes for the job (retail job 20 hours a week @ min wage, it is better than nothing).
I still cannot believe JCP’s are not following the toolkit and seem to still be making up there own rules.
Pls for you … from humble beginnings grow strong 😉
Well done you. That’s good news.
thanks
Congratulations on the job prospects are bound to help you get the job with there outcome payments for years after it they don’t care really long as they get there outcome payments 20 hours a week a guess you don’t have to pay rent or other expences on that wage you could never do it .
But it suits you so congratulations . There is only every part time hours on universal jobmatch i would never apply could never pay my rent or council tax .Ingeus try to do a thing tell me much i could claim in job payments tax credits i am no interested if a company won’t pay what i need i won’t be subsidised by the taxpayer to live . (40 hours)
Ingeus are my work programme provider a never signed the datta protection form so they are stuffed for there job outcome payments i won’t it in writing i gave them a letter last time a went no responce so one is going to there head office soon by recorded delivery
Anyone know why the consent me site is not updating anymore?
Back in early January an adviser reviewed, and changed, my Jobseeker’s Agreement. Under the terms of the new agreement I had to search at least 20 websites weekly, check two papers a week, send four spec letters a week, visit or phone at least one employer a week, and ask one family member or friend once a week.
That was the first and last time I saw that adviser – until two weeks ago.
She was very confrontational, scolding me like I’m a child, claiming what I’d written in my jobsearch diary wasn’t enough, that what I was telling her sounded “doubtful” and even said that she wasn’t sure if she could allow me to get my JSA. She went on to say she would put it through “this time”, and acted as though I should be grateful.
Here’s the thing: I did everything that was asked of me in my Jobseekers Agreement, I wrote down everything I did, I’ve continued to attend Ingeus (my work programme provider) and I have never been given, let alone failed to follow, a Jobseeker’s Direction, or received any type of warning before.
So, my question is this, could she have really sanctioned me or was she talking out of her arse and trying to bully me?
Between the time I first met this particular adviser in January and now, I have seen at least four, probably even five, other advisers. A couple of them waffled on about UJM and giving them access but not one of them, NOT ONE, told me I was providing them with “insufficient evidence” of my jobsearching activities, or that what I had written in my jobsearch diary was inadequate. I pointed this out to Little Miss Power Trip and got this response: “Well I’m a very experienced adviser and I know I would have said this to you when I saw you in January”. What kind of answer is that? It doesn’t explain why NONE of her colleagues, experienced advisers in their own right, saw a problem with what I’ve been doing.
Oh, and she also took issue with the fact that I’ve sent spec letters to companies that “do online applications”. This doesn’t make sense to me, since spec letters are not the same thing as applying for a specific vacancy that has actually been advertised. And pretty much EVERY company does online applications these days. Who exactly am I supposed to send spec letters to then?! What utter nonsense.
She ended up updating my agreement yet again (have to check five websites fives times weekly, and she changed some wording in one section) and finished by telling me “I’ll get you next time” and that my benefit would be stopped if she isn’t satisfied with what I’ve been doing.
Sorry, this was a bit of a rant but I’m still angry about it. I sincerely hope one day she ends up sitting on the other side of that bloody desk and is treated the way she treated me – like scum.
FED UP …all else failing then DEAL>>
Personally, I would tell her there is a problem, with her attitude towards you. She is agrressive and clearly hostile to you. She makes no pretence over it. State that you don”t have to put up with being talked to like this by anyone and won’t be spoken down to like this! That she clearly has a problem talking to customers with respect. Call it a personality clash and insist on a different advisor one with customer skills. Then never deal with her again…refuse. It is your right. If all else fails wirite in and tell them….that you have written to your local MP to complain…and do so.
The DWP are recruitng thugs and bullies, shame on them.
I would get all your evidence up together from january and put it in a folder, ask to speak to the JCP manager and see if you can get another adviser and also show your evidence.
Sounds as though this adviser you have is defo out to get you.
I was back in yesterday and luckily I was seen by a different adviser – one who was actually pleasant, and respectful! You’re idea is a good one though, I’ll keep that in mind for the future so I can be prepared for when I inevitably have to deal with Little Miss Power Trip again.
If that fails or you are not satisfied with the outcome you can use a FOI to try and get the information they have about you on the system (think it costs £10).
Also see if you have a local sympathetic journalist and also write to your local MP (and even ones in opposition).
Hi Kam
Your adviser sounds like a right nasty peice of work, but next time if your unfortunate to get her and she starts again with your not doing enough , ask her exactly what she means by that, get her to be specific and point out where you are falling short and if thats in breach of your jobseeker agreement, tell her to point out where if so.
I got a evil one last week and she tried to use generics like ‘im concerned your not doing what we ask you to do’ (when I refused to print out a cv from new directions and insisted on emailing or printing it out from their offices) I pinned her down straight away and told her to tell me exactly what I had not done that was asked of me as it was not part of the deal for me to go there just to print out a cv for HER when she can allow me to get it to her some other way.
And once you pin them down trap them, if they come out with something like oh you have to blah blah blah…tell them to show you textual proof of this matter as you have ‘doubts’ over it.
And most certainly go ahead and complain send out the signal that your not one to be trifled with.
Two can play their game.
Also you don’t have to agree to anything that is unreasonable in that jobseeker agreement you can ask to speak to her manager about anything thats unreasonable.
That’s what made me so angry, I knew I’d adhered to everything in my jobseeker agreement – so she had no right to be angry and rude, let alone start threatening to sanction me. If she comes out with such rubbish in future I’ll be ready for it, and ask her to explain exactly what she thinks I’ve failed to do, and how/if that breaches my agreement.
Yes, this one mentioned something about me taking print outs of my UJM and when I told her I didn’t have a printer she just replied “oh, you don’t have a printer” in a sarcastic, disbelieving tone. Then she told me I could use one of their computers to print things out, but sometimes the computers might be all booked up so it would “make things difficult” for me. I don’t see how it’s my problem if they don’t have enough computers. And even if I did have a printer I certainly wouldn’t be using it to print things out for her benefit.
I’ll definitely be making a complaint if she behaves like that toward me again the next time I see her.
Advisers like her, and the one you got, are just vile people who get a kick out of treating other people like crap and making their lives difficult when they think they can get away with it. It’s absolutely disgusting.
The funny thing is that I got a different adviser when I went in yesterday, and he didn’t even look at my jobsearch diary at all or ask about UJM! He just asked me if I’d had any luck recently, any interviews, and if I was still attending my work programme provider. So much for needing to provide as much “evidence” as possible.
Some advisors will go 6 weeks without looking at anything, then suddenly they have you in there sights again as they work down the list of tough cases who wont tick the box. I was told again paper is no longer acceptable, blah blah blah.
They WILL Lie to you, and even deny its a lie.
the next time she says something like ‘oh you dont have a printer’ in a sarcastic tone…parrot it back to her so she can hear what she sounds like it always shocks people to hear how rude they sound.
Just repeat back what do you mean ‘oh you dont have a printer’ ?
lol and watch her face drop like sack of spuds.
Atleast though she offered you the use of the jobcentre printers thats a RARE thing to get actually offered that, and you know what its all on your side if they are so busy with people booking up their slots on IADS , just say oh dear (sound genuine) what a palava do you think the goverment will be providing more IADS to help YOU out.
its nothing to do with helping you the claimants out its all to do with helping the adviser spy and snoop on the claimant so they get extra chances to stop you money.
And do you know what is interesting what if there is NOTHING IN UJM to print out for them? for example you found some jobs on UJM however the only way to apply for them was directly emailing the company because there are lots of jobs on there like that, I apply for them and write the ref down in my paper book….what do they expect me do? to print a screen from my email ?? I think not! the rules state they may request print screens from UJM not from my email, where is it stated I have to provide print out of emails I sent to apply for jobs…they can jolly well provide me with textual proof from their toolkits before I do that.
rules are the rules! we are following them to the T like good job seekers 🙂
lol I’ll be doing that next time I see her, treat her like she treated me. She asks a question, I’ll sit there staring at her in silence for a while before answering, she gets sarcastic, I’ll respond in a mocking tone right back, and I’ll be asking for proof that what she’s telling me is true. And I’ll certainly be requesting to see her manager if she starts threatening to sanction me for no reason again.
I’m not sure if she was being serious with that offer, I think she was just trying to pressure me into giving them access by implying I’d be in for trouble if I see her at a future date and she wants print outs and I can’t provide them.
Exactly! UJM isn’t to help us get jobs, it’s all about them invading our privacy, spying on us to make things easier for them to find excuses to hand out sanctions.
I don’t understand how giving them access to your UJM somehow counts as proof or evidence that you’re actually doing what you’re supposed to; looking for work, and applying for jobs. I mean, I could put in my job log on UJM that I phoned a company asking if they have any vacancies. How can the jobcentre know I actually did it? Check my phone records? And UJM is far from the only site to search for jobs on. What if you apply for a job through some other website, like monster.com? How are you supposed to “prove” it?
As you say, there are a lot of jobs on UJM where you have to email the company, and then there’s also the ones where you have to go to the company’s website and apply there. I have no idea how you can prove you’ve applied for those types of jobs, so all the advisers talk of ‘proof’ and ‘evidence’ makes absolutely no sense. How does my UJM count as proof, but not my paper jobsearch diary?
Absolutely, we’re following the rules, just like we’re supposed to. The high and mighty advisers should stop trying to treat us like fools who don’t know what’s really going on.
A think it must be certain jobcentres that are making there own rules up
A have taken print outs of universal jobmatch to sign on since it came ito force a had to use it Was told a could no longer get a joblog without ever being given a jobseeker directions.
So i did a fortnight ago i got told by advisor she was away to ask if a could get a joblog so she came back said don’t bring printouts gave me a joblog an said use this . So i signed on yesterday different advisor a said a never had printouts as a got told not to bring them and put it in my joblog ‘
Advisor said i don’t see the difference but who am i ? i don’t make the rules i just inforce them .Seems to me my jobcentre made there own rules up because even my freedom of information i got from dwp said all jobsearch wasn’t to be recorded on it and the jobseeker can use other means to record the information
Write down Jobs you havent rang for?
Falsify information you know they cant disprove?
I am disgusted. . You havent done it already, ..
(if it was possible of course_ Ahem)The ultimate piss take is to get a friend who is a biz manager to advertise a job on the site and sign a letter saying you didnt get it,after the fone interview, the face to face interview, and the unpaid trial.Thats 3 of your 10 a fortnight including 1 ring an employer..
Hi there, sorry to hear your feeling angry about the idiots at the Job Center. Be careful what your signing those agreements. They have been known to slip other things in, so read carefully. The Job center wanted me to sign a new agreement, but I said I was quite happy with the way mine was, and anyway I go above and beyond what is written on my agreement anyway. I now tape my visits to the Job Center, here’s the one from today: http://youtu.be/njLqmmPzwUs Do your research on the Internet, you’ll be surprised as to what you have to sign and what you don’t.
The first time I logged in everything went dandy , now the second time apparently I put in the wrong ID or password …. What a load of crap …. There doing this to sanction me I know it
You and hundreds of thousands of others…my suggestion i know you dodnt ask … just a suggestion…tell them you haven’t opted in….tell them you’ve been as good as your word and looked at it….but you’ve cerainly never agreed, no one has ever given you the facts as is appropriate. The system is rubbish…its not secure, administered badly blah blah blah (do research and state the obvious … it sucks and is second rate).
Anyways it’s up to you…as ts likely ypu have a battle or two ahead. Better to sort them outt now before they get the thirst for it (sanction…sanction….sanction). Its going to get a LOT worse if we allow them the larcenous liberty! Sheer hatred WILL bring them down all the rotten lot of them …. and their oppressive insufferable opportunistic lazy bosses
Spartacus I have been absolutely tempted to just turn around and say hey I am not signing up for this and I will look for my jobs in others ways, they problem with doing that is you are highly likely to be persecuted by the advisor for daring to go against the ‘bots’ and not tick their boxes…the advisor just has a meltdown and malfunction and they get nasty on you what they do is….
Threaten you and pressure you….ok so you can fend that one off if you know the rules.
They issues a JSD to FORCE you to sign up to the damn thing and if you FAIL to do so you are sanctioned, still you can sign up for and refuse to use your PC, but then what if they force you to come into their office to use the IAD …and meanwhile for extra persecution the advisor will increase the job search agreement with MORE activitys to fulfil , any of which are failed could land you sanctioned.
So you are lierally blackmailed to sign up….I signed up to keep them off my back but seems if you dont give them access they are JUST as much on your back as if you never signed up!
Im just going to see what happens my next visit if they give me the same amount of grief I am just going to unregister from it all togeather and we can play dirty as they like…I tried to play nicely but seems they dont respect genuine people.
I have just been thru that one, and they make you come in every day ad infin until you tick the box.
However, going in every day they have to cover the bus fare, and you can abuse there internet
I still havent ticked the box. telling them you will, will get you 2 wks grace as they have to book you into there schedule EVERY DAY, and its tuff for them to fit you in. Was you AWARE you can get a half price bus/tram/tube pass if unemployed? No? There is a shock.Take 2 passport foto’s in and tell them you want your pass letter. They will deny it, but its the way to go. The pass lasts 6 months. They dont get airmiles for giving those out. The opposite i guess.
They do exist (I managed to ask for/get one of these for January) but …
– after a long & involved series of discussions/blank looks/confusion/trips to & from the bus station and back to the job centre. Using the pass, most of the time, bus drivers didn’t recognise it (just a few did) which meant explaining to the driver and anyone else nearby that “It’s from the job centre” than having to explain further convince them about t&c.
The story as told to me was that there are several criteria to meet (I just happened to meet them) to qualify for the magic pass – I’ve blanked out most of the details now as the whole thing was so stressful & January somehow seemed to be a very long month, but the supposed criteria (then) were along the lines of ‘unemployed for more than 6 but less than 9/12 months(?)’ and also ‘suitable’ – not somehow viewed as an undeserving customers/no recorded black marks? There might have been other provisos. It lasts a month & not to be re-applied for after this – (seemingly). The person who eventually handed it to me (after disappearing to the finance office) has been an advisor for around 15 years and insisted had personally never had to go and get one/was unfamiliar with how they worked as “you are the first person who’s asked me for one – I thought we had stopped doing them”. I read about them in online info. (not from JCP) in December about a promotion between certain national bus companies & JCP running during January, available for any job seeker, to help with job search/costs etc. But JCP/bus drivers had not been given any of this information …
It would be interesting if more people asked about these to try to get a picture of what’s generally said about them when people enquire & the variation between answers/criteria. It would be good to increase awareness that they exist – particularly if it’s going to be more often the case that JCP insist on more regular attendance/saying they will reimburse travel costs.
Very frustrating. Please feed back how you get on Annty. On my part I challenge them if they are unreasonable hostile and condescending its tehir way their abuse of is is institutional and goe unchecked. I have not signed the UJM. I am seen as a problem by the Centre. They’re becoming increasingly vindictive towards me. All I have to do is step foot into the service lately and I have ppl going out of the way to target me. It’s not paranoia when they make it clear they are out to get you. THey have sanctioned me, not for the JSA UJM but because I am job-hunting and struggling to live, someitmes unable to sign because of ‘complicaitons’ all very real and on their part protected. Last week I produced evidence of applying for 5 jobs and 2 interviews both 100 miles away from where I live (there are no jobs here it is a no hope cul-de-sac for my profession). I have now to find a way to raise the money to go to the interviews. I darn’t ask for a travel ticket since I kNOW the emplyers won;t look twice if I do. When I produced all this evidence last week when I signed (printouts) the advisor jsut scorned me and said …so you’ve printouts…these are jsut printouts (she couldn;t bring herself to look at them ‘cos she wanted to sanction me again but could not). I do everything I am taking them to the tribunal again very soon, they cannot be reasoned with so I will have no choice. It si the only way to stop them from denying me my entitlements as an EU Citizen. They will lose. It will be the thrid time they have lost before the Tribunal Service in just over 18 months. The trouble of taking them to court each time and the abject poverty I suffer when I do is soul destroying, very negative it takes months and months and cuts into my health and my morale. Yet I have no option. When they are deemded to have acted inappriopriately and unprofessionaly each time as they have repeatedly, they just laugh and get even worse. They are not brought to book or as I wold like to see, disciplined for their poor attidue towards the custoemrs that use the service, or fired for their incompetence as they should. There is no fincial penalty inflcited on them or comensation for me for all the damge that they do. They are culpable, inept and arrogant yet the system betrays me. Last time I went without interest only payments on my house when they did pay up some 7 months later, the mortgage company refused to give me my momey back except in dribs and drabs. , I had no right to reclaim the interim that I had been forced to cover. Old tigers become more dangerous as time goes on. I don’t want to be dangerous yet I realise I dream about revolution. I wish they were 1) reasoanble 2) professional 3 ) caring 4) understanding 5) supportive BUT they’re not. I won’t lay down and I won;t go silently into the night. But that’s their problem. Eventually soemthing will give, I will find a job, I try my best ALL the time to do so. When I do it will be despite all the harrassment, the hinderance, the demoralsiation I suffer at their hands and the cruely of a system whose sole aim is to keep people downn, belittle people and bully them. I used to hear shouts int the distance and wonder what it was. I now know it is the work house holler. I remind myself I am human and I am better than the system.
£3 a day plus the roof over my head…for all my needs this is full entitlement for a single mature man (me) with no deductions. I remind myself, resentment leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate is never good. Life is hard. The only way for them to understand is to expereince that which I…WE..live with, sack them all! Then see THEM rot…then see the smile on their faces as they mumble from memory that which they have weoponised against us “Arbeit Macht Frei”.
>>>ALWAYS BE NICE & NEVER LET THEM SINGLE YOU OUT>>>FOR THEY WILL GIVEN THE CHANCE & NOT THINK TWICE.
We_are_spartus
Faark, if I EVER meet some foooker in the pub who says there a JSA I will tell him or her to Piss Right OFF. SCUM BAGS! !
I will feed back spartacus Im there next week I bet totally prepared for round 2 with whoever wants to take me on pahhaha!
I totally agree with you sentiments in your post , its a awful demoralizing process to go through and It can make the strongest of us pissed off and depressed enough as it is being unemployed HOWEVER what makes us feel 10 times WORSE and this is called kicking someone when hes down is their attitudes and regimes towards us,
The knock on effect of sanctions has devastating effects and those idiots in goverment will have NO CLUE this happens nor will they care.
In regards to revolution well I think they will be kicked out at the next election replaced by more of the same no doubt, in the mean time if their sanctions and poverty inducing schemes continue they can expect desperate people to do desperate things!
I hope you avoid any more sanctions it was great to know you won the other tribunals but as you state it should never have got to that in the first place and cost the goverment MORE as those tribunals are not free I guess about 6 people are paid approx £100 a day to sit there an look at your case each time.
At the end of the day they will never get to sanction you if you play them by their rules, you wont 8 jobs applied for …..heres 8 jobs , apply for anything if theres nothing just so you ticked their boxes and protected yourself.
I think they should sack the whole lot of them and let us have thier jobs we would make brilliant advisers!
And regard to the buspass and train pass well the rules are you got to be claiming JSA for atleast 3 months , there is nothing written that I have seen that says you cant be claiming it for more than 9 months or you wont get the pass’s.
You just either make an appointment to go in the office or turn up whatever it is they allow , have 2 pieces of ID and a passport sized photo and voila…Im getting mine soon . The train I think its 50% off which is a mASSIVE help! they are valid for 3 months after which they have to be renewed.
When I asked about it they were cluless….I think if you want to help people back to work then knowing something like HELP WITH TRANSPORT COSTS is the first things you tell people about the dickheads.
UPDATE:::::
ANOTHER reason I have to spend so much time reading their rules…they are CONSTANTLY changing….the bus pass / train pass rules HAVE changed since I last read them here they are
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14423.aspx
You can apply for a Jobcentre Plus Travel Discount Card if you are claiming one of the following:
Jobseekers Allowance: if you’re aged 18-24 and have been unemployed for three to nine months
Jobseekers Allowance: if you’re 25 or over and have been unemployed for three to 12 months
Incapacity Benefit, Employment and Support Allowance or Income Support: if you’re actively engaged with an adviser in returning to employment
You can then travel at reduced rates in London when looking for work.
You are not eligible if you are participating in the Work Programme.
You may also be able to get help with your fares during the first few months of commuting to a new job. Contact your local Jobcentre Plus office for more information.
What the hell is going on in JCP centres?
So from what I have read they are not following the toolkit guidelines at all?
Has anyone who has had trouble with UJM brought up or shown the toolkit to their adviser?
If yes – what has been the outcome?
Not only are most not following the toolkits it seems, they are not trained adequately , it cant be right when I as a claimant sit there and know the rules better than them! and we are talking pretty rudamentry rules that would not take them that long to study and know.
The ONLY reason I have gotten so familiar with their grotty guidelines is to protect myself from their sanction regimes and i have spent about 24 hours in total studying them.
I have a done a full documented complaint 9 days ago in writing to my jobcentre complaining about my advisers flaunting of the toolkit and I pointed out all the sections of the toolkit that she ignored…as yet Im still to hear a reply when I do I shall update this thread and let you know.
Not only that I felt so disgusted at their tactics of pushing people off to places like connexions and newdirections for the SOLE purpose of printing pages and pages of print screen UJM shots and CV;s when they should be offering customers the use of their OWN facility’s first as their toolkit states that I informed connexions and new directions what the jobcentre are up to (wasting their resources) this tactic of theirs also leave a vulnerable claimant wide open to sanction if he or she dint know they had a right to ask for an email to the advisor OR use the jobcentre IADS and for whatever reason couldnt get to newdirections or connexions to print all this crap off they would be sanctioned and Ive seen it happen already with youngsters.
What they have done is made claimants MORE focused on not being sanctioned than focused on job hunting, majority of my time is covering my back to protect against sanctions, when you are in the office its mainly a negative experience as your on edge waiting for them to pick at your efforts never ever once did I hear any positive words out their mouth, what an utterly disgraceful shameful service and way to treat people.
Post-script thought
The £3 a day above (just over) is before Council Tax demands with menace. Unsure about this but I know I have to pay or face threats of imprisonment theiving meat head visits etc (I know this, I used to know a repo used to brag about all the many things he stole laughed about how few pennies they were worth to the victim when repod’)….about I think £200 a year for the Council Tax!? I don’t have £3 a day income (just over) currently any more. more like £1: I won’t be shackled and bundled unless I fall victim to them and if I do I will remember, I am a gentle man always.When nobody protects you against them, you protect yourself and those around you. I am not alone. How will I cope….don;t know. But I know I will, always with integrity, with honesty and with my morals and ethics intact. I will never lose these…it is how I was raised. It is my nature.
We_are_Spartus
Your defense from those attacking you is not just for you it is for all those ppl you defend in their absence. Spanners in the works is alwasy a good thing when the system is morally wayward and the machine they use is a meat grinder…. They won’t be able to cover their abuses forever. Good always wins. I admire your fortitude and wisdom. Keep up the faith. 😉
Miscalcualtion…surprising how feeling down can lead to simlple mistakes being made…they don’t take these into account at all when they’re conducitng their persecutions as they should. £3 per day less £200 council tax per year leaves just under £2.50 per day to live on for all my needs and no …there are no jobs that I can find !! Told a legal advisor today, taking some advice from him for the action against the DWP, now that’s a laugh, they consider themselves above the law and answerable to no one. He states there’s tens of thousands just like me…with £3 per day. I know I am not alone…it makes the struggle bettter somehow. That and the knowlege …. we are good people. When I tell them I get so little in entitlement they just pretend they have not heard me….as if to say well what do you expect ! SImple I expect to be treat with humanity…for we are all human. Rich (it means nothing) or poor…we are all human and we are all born of eve.
Taint fair. is it? That bloke on shameless never had a job. .
Well, Cameron never had a proper bloody job either before he was selected as ‘Leader of the opposition’, and that doesnt qualify as a job ! Why do you think these tossers all have jowls? They couldnt stack shelves all night let alone shovel a 100 tons of readymix into trenches all day. Useless twats are a waste of good food!
Faffing LEACHES!
No it ISN’ T fair Employers are permitted free-eign to in a shameless habit to hire clones with policies of hidden prejudice discriminaiting against age, sex, sexual orientation, height, private education background, n-s divide & geographical isloation, ethnicity (EU foreigners are given preference over UK born (often the jobs are only advertsied on foreign job sites)) even looks are ‘filtered’. Nepotism (hiring ones frineds and relatives) and narcisism (hiring clones like one-self) is covered up as and the job-scape favours women more than men for many many jobs. There IS open prejudice and bigotry in the UK , it just goes unchallenged since it is institutuional. Just look at the ministry of funny walks (and funny handshakes) brigade dominating the political scene in the capital that have never done a days graft in their life. It’s grotesque and utterly obscene. Am I like the bloke on shameless, defintely NOT but…i feel as bitter as him for sure. I just try not to be. Give me a shovel and a mans wage so that I can provide for those dependent on me and I will happily shovel shit (or hard-core) or use my many other abilties from dawn till dusk. It’s just the jobs aren’t there. It’s ineptitude on the parts of the politicains that they refuse to acknowlege. BUt biullies are always and have alwasy been the same. It’s our fault they say. Why donlt you ‘get a job’. Brain power is not THEIR thing. They live a cotton-wool insulated existence thinking it will never happen to them. But it will>>>> ;-/ trouble is (i wrestle with my conscience here) I know I shouldn’t wish my hardships on anyone. I don’t want to live an embittered sub-existence with a chip on my shoulder. I find it hard to accept they go out of their way to make life impossible for us. Those that require support to get them back into work and those that simply cannot work (even though they THEY owe their very eistence to these noble fragile, vulnerable citizens) are vicitmised, harrassed, intimidated and belittled. Inexcusable under every moral code in the land. These ppl need their moral and ethics straightened out so I guess the only question is who’s up for a revolution ? The answer for sure is WE_ALL_ARE
wait until you see the whites of their eyes
We_are_Spartus
The Effects of Sanctions on the Teaching Profession:
(Apologies that this comment is fairly wordy but it is about something that has recently happened which feels significant in the context of what is being talked about on here).
Somehow or other a head of steam seems to be building as more and more people talk openly about their experiences (and the effects of ‘reforms’ on people they know) that involve unprecedented levels of pressure being applied to many, many households – individuals, couples and families. Because of the growing numbers, it’s getting less likely all the time that being able to brush these away as ”exceptions” is going to be even remotely believable. Voices of dissent are getting louder as many people become more desperate and some of those who have been worst affected are on the point of exhaustion, or near to their wits end. Some of these people are starting to have their stories more and more widely recounted by those who do still have the strength and tenacity to raise awareness, including some of the many ‘professionals’ battling to cope with the outcomes and provide whatever support they can – or who are having to admit that these are instances of serious deprivation and there may be in the difficult situation of being unable to offer anything other than a listening ear and their understanding. Many have used their time and expended some of their mental energy to offer support as well as express a mounting sense of horror/outrage on forums such as this.
Last week, a FOI request sent by the deputy head of a primary school, refers to the writer’s desperation. S/he goes on to detail several of the increasing cases which s/he now sees regularly at the school in question. Instances in which parents have had to resort to not taking their children to school due to a lack of money for shoes or because unable to provide everyday essential basics – unable to launder uniforms/pay for bus fares etc.. These are in many of the cases described, as a direct consequence of the DWP’s ‘sanctioning’ (stopping money). In all cases referred to, these stoppages have been applied to people who have children to support. Other instances are described which are the direct result of the introduction of bedroom tax costs/council tax benefit withdrawals and other ‘welfare reforms’/cuts to the incomes of people who may well have been ‘just managing’ previously. The FOI asks how could this have been allowed and how it is able to continue and, specifically, about the effects of sanctions on schooling/schools. The writer has given a clear and detailed snapshot of what must be the experience of headteachers, teachers and parents in schools up and down the country. It gives a terrifying picture of the reality ‘on the ground’ as directly affecting young people and their families. Children are not passive observers of distress – they experience the detrimental effects both in their home lives and of not being able to go to school and continue their education alongside their peers.
A reply is pending and is awaited interest, although it may not be either clear or relevant when it comes as the questions relate to individuals who’s life-chances are being reduced week on week, rather than to specific points of law/regulations/rules breached. It has already in effect, been made clear that the ‘rules’ have been set so that they can be interpreted to enable the awful abuses now escalating to such extremes.
Something even more significant than the letter itself (and it is shocking, if not surprising). Annotations have been piling up underneath the request – these usually come from people who are interested in the outcome of a request, sometimes offering practical suggestions on points of law, how to word requests to elicit the most informative reply. In this case, there growing number of added comments are detailing further horror-stories – in many cases still currently being experienced. Still others have written in sympathy/solidarity and offer practical suggestions/express a shared dismay – some have written in their capacity as workers in the ‘advice’ professions and from a teaching/social work perspective. This seems somehow a significant moment. At the last count, there are 20 additions to the request – some extremely difficult to read and others filled with concrete information/suggestions of what needs to be done/where to raise concerns etc.
thanks for you support if you re a blogger>> it helps moer than you know >>
60’s social and psycholgical experiment. Game of monoploy. Some players were given twice the money to start(£200 insteadof £100), told they could buy on their first round, others could not, and were given twice the dice others had just one. The odds now UNFAIR were apporaching eight times…more likely that others would lose in the ‘game’. Trouble is those that were given the greasy handshake, saw it as weaklness that others fell into debt. They saw them as a sub-class to themselves. They gloated when they demanded with mencace money (thieving scum) for having to ‘land’ on a piece of ground and they bullied their victims without mercy laughing and thinking they were better…. shame ! So similar to bown shirt pre-war Europe.
Nazism wasn’t just a crime of the ancestors of modern day very different Germanic ppl who are a good, proud and noble ppl indeed, it is in the psyche of humans….all humans. It is alive and kicking in all parts of the world and all tiers of society,,,it’s just that it is called now ‘politics’ and ‘austerity’. It doesn’t change the FACT it is EVIL !! We are all in this together, we need to work and work together. If you are one of the bullies….change your game and change your life . [period]
I am a qualified teacher. Due to the subject I teach,jobs are very hard to come by. I have been unemployed for 6 months. The job centre treat you like you’re thick. I have a masters degree, first class bachelor’s and many other qualifications. I have applied for over 50 jobs since being unemployed. Being fed up with not having any replies,I decided to phone employers up asking if they had received my applications that I sent via universal jobmatch…….the majority of them have not! Some say their systems don’t accept job centre applications directly, others say they simply haven’t been received! How the hell are us “doleys” who want to work supposed to get a job when the job centre are useless?
On another note, upon applying for job seekers allowance, I was told I’d have a personal advisor. This advisor would apparently help me find a job…….6 months not 1 appointment even after asking numerous times. Job centre should think about re-naming. ……joke centre? Jobless centre?
Few professional jobs are advertised on U.J.
UJ isnt a magic wand for finding jobs, its primary purpose and design is as a SANCTION ENGINE.
Getting people off benefits doesnt mean they have to find you a job, stopping your money will suffice.
By the way, despite obviously being suited to educational roles, they will send you for a job
in mcdonalds if you complain about not getting any leads. They expect you to be on jobmatch for 30 hours a week to destroy your soul and break your spirit..They never said it would be full of proper jobs!
Guys, the Jon Center told me “You will have to join UJ when you go back on the Work Programme” then when I went into the Work Programme place the guy there said “You will have to join UJ otherwise the Job Center will sanction you” so it seems one place thinks the other place has the authority and vice versa. Who actually has the authority then? Who is it that makes you sign up to UJ? The job center or the Work Programme? They are two entirely different companies.
Ric – There’s quite a bit of information above these last comments (further up) about UJ. It’s seems to vary a lot, but: (from Stuart – (22/04 5.07am) is a good clip to watch. Can’t comment about what the work programme say, but supposedly a Jobseeker’s Direction could be given (via job centre) to SOME people to ask them to register with UJ and upload CV. But, even in that case, they can’t dictate how people should job seek so if you can show clearly what you do to look for work there “should, supposedly” be no reason for this to happen. (Consent.me website is useful).
Work programme: – others will know about their approach – It might be ‘easier’ to use it when there (?) but there are at least some people who “use” UJ as it’s what was discussed/agreed at JCP, but only as in looking at it, not ticking any boxes giving consent for anyone else to view own account and not necessarily ‘uploading a CV’ either – just searching for jobs, which anyone can do. Pressure is always to upload a CV/tick the box. There are concerns about ‘tracking cookies’ and so some people prefer not to use at all (or use JCP’s own devices only) and are trying to stick to that line of defence & also explaining what they do to search (instead of UJ). Hope this makes sense & good luck.
Ps. I think you are right they are 2 entirely different entities – but the Work Programme are contracted by the DWP and Job Centre ‘are’ the DWP …
Jon Center = Job Center
I have yet to be directly mandated to join UJ. They tried pressuring me, of course, but backed off when I showed them I knew it wasn’t mandatory. Since it did become mandatory, I’ve still carried on submitting my paper Work Programme jobsearch when I sign on at the Jobcentre, which they look at, then hand it me back. Sometimes, but not always, they take a photocopy for their records.
Can anyone tell me if I’m cruising for a bruising/marching off a cliff, etc, by taking this stand? I make sure that I DO apply for all the jobs I claim to be applying for. As long as I do this, I’ll be safe, right? Or is there a nasty surprise they reserve for people like me?
As long as you have applied for the jobs you show, you are safe. Try not to apply for too many jobs off the uj site, and concentrate on other agencies.This will hamper the job centers efforts to check up on you no end. C.v. library is excellent for this, as it sends you a confirmation email saying which job you applied for and when.. If you put some details on the site, you can apply for any job on the site with a ‘one click apply’ button, meaning you can cover your 3 jobs a week in about 2 minutes. Obviously you will want to apply for jobs on other sites too, but c.v. library is the best site. Actually, when you print off replies from c.v. library, the date isnt on the print out, so if you are short of jobs found, you can apply for a few that are ‘nearly’ your thing and write them in for a few days ago. The job centre has no way of checking , which is why they want you using jobmatch.
Also Tim, xxx isnt a massive town and there cant be many Tim’s who havent ticked the box. I hope Tim isnt your real name.?
Very good point, Pat, though being “safe” I guess I’ve not said anything incriminating. Cheers! (D’oh!) It would be wise to make no more posts under this name, methinks…
Thankfully there are near 700 posts on this thread but the enemy do cast an eye on the void, as It is ‘REALLY GETTING ON THEY’RE TITS that claimants know so much’ So I have been reliably informed.. .
just in case, now you’re from nowhere
Tidy..
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I love this site! It would be so cool if Johnny, Pat and others were actually our double agents working high up in the DWP! Seriously, though, with the warfare on claimants reaching not just socio-, but now psycho-pathological levels and you feel ever more isolated and powerless, it’s so good to know thevoid exists. Even if it did take me 8 years to twig! What we need now is a stickering campaign on lamp-posts alongside every Jobcentre in the country or something to let all those others know who are still unaware. With all the suicides, broken marriages/homes and general threat of destitution hanging over so many people this is a matter of some import. You could literally save lives! Though on the other hand keeping a low profile is probably pretty essential, lest you tempt THEM to turn their guns on you. Tricky one, isn’t it? But Gawd bless y’all, you’re all stars and long may you run…
The sticker campaign is an excellent idea. I was trying to think of an alternative to leaflets and you just answered. Giving out leaflets would paint a target on my forehead. .
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Went to the Sanction centre today and my “adviser” was trying to browbeat me into signing up to the UJM yet again. He said I have to upload my CV to it ” so prospective employers know you’re there” and “so I can check on your progress” but the fucking site isn’t safe! It’s disgusting to force people to use a dysfunctional, insecure, useless site when you can’t even be bothered to ensure that people’s details will be kept safe and secure. The site even has a disclaimer that they can’t be held responsible for the security of your details or any losses you may incur by using it!
He genuinely believes in all the scrounger rhetoric and seems to think he is on some sort of crusade to force the lazy, feckless parasites to find a job.
He is determined to get me signed up to this scam site by hook or by crook. This vicious little prat is putting so much pressure on my mind. I’m so sick of being threatened and pressured by this snide, malicious, odious little creep and being forced to jump through his hoops.
Don’t let the b’Stards … but easier said than done.
I phoned in sick last week (sick of JCP-related stress-related-type-illness). The person taking the call explained “This is what we call ‘A Period of Sickness'” & read the rules on POSs – (2 strikes and you’re out). Then asked “Has this happened before?” & (in a moment of migraine-induced madness) I thought – wrongly – that was an expression of concern. So said, “Yes, they happen often”. Adviser interrupted to say “No, I meant has a Period of Sickness happened before?” Ouch. She ended the conversation by stating (in no uncertain terms) that if it were to happen again on a signing day/adviser appointment, my claim will close. (“Like being at work”). Ended up just saying “okay” & “thanks” – what else is there to say?
I must not be ill. I must not be ill. I must not be ill … I must not …
Usual Adviser is (I think) a half-decent human being but his predecessor was far more of the snide, malicious, odious, forever with the ‘hoop-jumping’ ideas version. She would definitely have viewed ‘non attendance due to illness’ as a clear ‘win’. I couldn’t have coped for very much longer with our little chats – we crossed swords over UC early on but luckily some sort of sideways move took her across the office to victims new. It’s hard not to be adversely affected by their personae – it’s not paranoia – there’s the very real fear/worry of what they might do next – made worse by the veneer of ‘appearing to have a civilised conversation’, while not very far under the surface it’s something far more sinister/ugly.
There’s been a heated debate going on at the guardian’s comment-is-free site today & yesterday, along the lines of “Is this the beginning of the end of David (swivel-eyed loon) Cameron?” If he did go (whenever), it might just be possible that he could take his good fiend IDS with him … Hope Springs Infernal, USA.
Ouch indeed, that was cold. I hope you are feeling better now. It’s so unreasonable and heartless though, human beings get sick, we’re not machines for Christ’s sake! Yeah it is very stressful knowing you have to go and see someone every fortnight who is very hostile, looks at you with utter contempt, has a permanent disbelieving sneer on his face and is eager to “reform” you. It is counterproductive though, because feeling harassed, pressured and overwhelmed (which I do now) tends to make me shut down. I respond much better to being treated with respect and receiving some encouragement, but he doesn’t care about any of that, he just wants me on the UJM so he can micromanage my jobsearch and punish me. Being at the mercy of these advisers, with them having the power to sanction your only source of income on a whim, feels like crossing an abyss on a tightrope – one false move or a sudden gust of wind and splat.
Regained some equilibrium – thanks. Last time I was there & trying not to have a stress attack of any kind during a 20 minute wait, an Adviser was patiently explaining to a much older man that he would need to bring his wife with him to his next appointment. Eventually, there were two advisers going over and around the dictat, with him. He kept saying, politely, “But she isn’t entitled to any money – she isn’t claiming” then one or both advisers would explaining again, “Yes, we know, but she still has to come in. We just have to see her” (to prove her existence?). They tried to get him to capitulate by saying it would probably only take about 15 minutes and playing down any importance involved in the thinking behind it. He said he’d rung on receiving the demand in writing and (again) explained that his wife had to be somewhere else on the day in question. They carried on insisting that (it wasn’t them he’d spoken to when he rang) but that in any case, it was a requirement. “It’s a new Government rule”. Everyone “must” be seen?
The man they were haranguing didn’t have English as a first language & was aged about mid-late 50s. He managed to stay very calm (how much stress/anger/disbelief he may have been feeling is anyone’s guess). He stood his ground until eventually one of the Advisers phoned (to another Dept/manager?) & put his case. It was agreed that it would be okay “on this occasion” to waive/get round the rule, but they made it fairly clear that this was “an exception – this time”.
Prepare yourself, anyone with a hamster, guinea pig or A.N. Other human being sharing your living space (goldfish/snakes may be excluded). It could soon become ‘essential’ to bring these with you for a 15 minute appointment/informal questioning session. Arguing that you do not claim handouts on their behalf and neither do they claim, won’t be acceptable. Can the person who wrote the lyrics to ‘Mad World’ now consider donating them for inclusion in the new claimant commitment, coming soon from Job Centre Plus @swiveleyedloons
An adviser getting another on the scene as ‘back up’ is often a sign they are ‘trying it on’ and the rule they are talking about is actually unenforceable. This happened to me before jobmatch was mandatory. Two guys raising voices and insisting ‘It may affect my benefits’ if I didnt sign up.
Obfuscation of the truth and spinning meanings of what is said is a game all can play and it was well after the mandatory period I set it up. Then it was 4 weeks before the advisor looked to check and went purple when he realised I hadnt given the sanctions team access;He had been relying on what I had told him and believed he could forget me as somebody else was in charge of giving me shit to eat.He was angry and upset I had deceived him without even lying,and I did it twice because after he started pulling me in every day I said I would tick the box so he gave my next appointment to sign to the stand in so I didnt see him for another month and ticked the box the day before!.They dont like it when you do it to them !!
Imagine being in there boots in the town pubs on a friday night now? They make estate agents seem respectable.
@ shirleynott
Thanks for the heads up. It just gets better and better doesn’t it? It looks like it is not enough to humiliate us on our own – talk to us like we are naughty children, threaten us with benefit sanctions, bark their orders at us loudly in front of everyone, now they want to humiliate us in front of our partners/housemates/pets/children too?! This sounds like more nudge unit BS – “humiliate the scrounging scum in front of their friends and family, to nudge them into getting a job”.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
George Orwell (1984)
What’s next? Recite Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers without any mistakes and pat your head and rub your tummy at the same time or lose your benefits?
I can do that after a skinfull !
If only it was so simple.
The latest Jokes for me with the joke center was they gave me this pathetic , patronsing ‘jobseekers challenge’ which was 2 sheets of paper long.
Basically you had to carry out numerous tasks,
find 5 employers who are employing in your chosen feild of work in your area.
Then you had to name all your strong points, all your weak points. write a cover letter for job and there was loads of other rubbish like that you had to write which I cant remember.
And it said I had to hand this in at my next signing on and come dressed to impress as if I were going to an interview….haha what a JOKE! piss take.
So I filled all that crap in, and i made it easy for myself by just writing 5 employers who I had already applied to for a job. and copied a cover letter, I went online and just copied answers from their boring questions.
And I had it with me ready for the next signing, which was supposed to be a mock job interview at the same time as signing on.
Well guess what……the advisor never even asked for my hard work I had done, he was to engrossed with telling me that the reason I have not got a job or an interview was because my cv was not good (even though he never ever seen it?!)and that I must be frogged marched to the National careers advisor by way of a 2 part appointment, one , one week and the 2nd the next week.
So the careers advisor is stationed at the jobcenter and she was to be looking at my CV to tell me where it alls gone wrong.
My advisor NEVER EVEN asked for the papers I filled out the week before , let alone do this mock interview thing and well its a good job I never came dressed to impressed! I would have felt like I was stood up on a date or something lol.
Anyway my advisor who is man on this occasion I see a different advisor every single time, he is nice enough he is just carrying out his orders he was not nasty or anything, he said if I didnt go to this careers advisor appointments based at the jobcenter I would be sanctioned so it was mandatory.
So the next week I went to this appointment with the careers advisor and she said her job was to mainly see if I had barriers of getting back into work, and skills issues….I was like no to both! and its just my cv needs looking at, she looked at it said it was a great cv all the right things on there just needed to condense it …nothing more!
So I got to re do my cv and email it to them and come back in for the 2nd appointment so they can tell me if I re did it ok?……is this not a complete waste of time????? why not just email me and tell me its ok? or what needed changing??
And another thing I know that they can email your CV to the careers advisor for a review and then email you back the review results so why not do that for me?
Why refer me when I have no skills or barrier problem to this other advisor??
Oh yess I know why because I had the cheek to complain about them the week before,,,of course!
the jokes continue.
You are missing the reason behind all this and that is to make claiming benefits a truly dreadful experience to be loathed. Often advisers will load you with crap they forget about. I spent £5 printing off job confirmations and spec sheets for months and mostly it wasnt even looked at. There is little point finding casual work either, because it wont be counted towards your job search;
‘What did you do about finding work?’
‘Oh, actually I did a day temp work’
‘Fill out this form and we will dock your money;
and you only have 9 things on your job search so we will sanction you’..
Pointless. Hopeless. Senseless.
HELP!!! I desperately need some advice.
My JCP adviser has been trying to bully me into signing up to UJM which so far I have managed to avoid. Today she gleefully informed me that when Universal Credit starts in October, everyone who is on JSA will have to sign up because it will be part of something called a Claimant Commitment which we will all have to sign.
Not only that, we will have to apply for any job on the UJM website that we are physically capable of doing. If we don’t apply for these jobs without good reason then we will get a 3 month sanction. Does anyone know anything about this?
She also said that they’ll be checking up on everyone to ensure that they are applying for these jobs, i.e. contacting employers who advertise for staff via UJM to check we have contacted them. Isn’t there something in the Data Protection Act that forbids people from revealing your personal details to a third party if you have contacted them in an official context?
Any advice would be hugely appreciated. I am literally sick with worry. Thanking you all in advance.
Just keep doing whst your doing Karl, and dont worry about october,
Officially, you should already be registered, and the only thing you dont have to do is tick the box.
If everybody in an area aplies for every job they are physicaly and mentally capable of, every job advertiser would have to supply a list of roughly 4000 names to be checked by the job center c}ntS+.
Would you compile that list? Would you hOrlix. No one will. Its all frighteners, Lets see how she likes it.
Thanks for the advice. It’s good to know that I’m not alone. I live in a rural area and looking at the UJM website for the latest vacancies in my area, there aren’t really that many. Most of them expect you to have prev exp – even the retail and hospitality vacancies. Trouble is my adviser is a bit of a sadist. When she calls my name out she is slavering with anticipation. Just where hell do they find these people anyway?
The JC in my area has recently changed the way they sign. I was given a letter acouple of weeks ago saying that my signing can now last anything up to an hour. I have an adviser and an assistant adviser. The assistant is the sadist. She’s been on my case now for several months.
I also have been advised by other jobseekers not to tell the JC I have a computer at home, otherwise they’ll have you on it 8 hours a day carrying out pointless tasks.
First off, your job seeker friends are half right about not telling the jobc@nts plus you have a computer. Being Full right is to not tell them ANYTHING_ (They lie and cheat you right from the off when they ask you to sign forms against your interest (the ‘tool’ form) so why should you play ball?)
I am making it a golden rule to never disclose ANYTHING that isnt required by law; C.V., skills, qualifications, work history,_ ALL this is voluntary disclosure. They cannot force it from you. Leave it all blank on your c.v.
2nd off, tell them you have ‘serious’ criminal convictions your solicitor has instructed you you are under no obligation to disclose under the rehabilitation of offenders act.
That should get you out of most shit jobs, and most workfare type programs too..
(Seetec and most others wont accept you if you dont sign a form stating you are clear of any convictions and o.k. with a crb check, even tho there is no chance they would spend the money-its a bluff checkup)
And btw, is it not an indicator of how far things have been swung in employer’s favour when they can demand a simple shop worker has already been trained by somebody else? How long could it take to learn to work a till and stack shelves?
A DAY? 3 Days? The nxt logical step for workers is to all go free lance and claim everything against tax like any other bizz owner-the chancellor will go broke and the system will fall apart..Whats good for the goose is good for the Gander!
Karl, & DLTBGYD – even though very often it’s easier said than done.
To: Karl24 and others,
I was in a simialr position with attempts directed at me being bullied to be sanctioned with forcible tethering to the new sanction engine. I asked for the information on UJM because I stated I couldn’t decide to sign up to the scheme if I wasn’t given the facts and allowed opportunity to read them. They gave me them and booked an appt next day to sign. Next day I turned up for the appt and told them I had read the leaflets top to bottom many times but I couldn’t find on the leaflets where it said I must agree to this system which is simply flawed? I asked the DWP officers to point this out to me. Surely if I had to sign it should say that I have to…?
I refused. I told them that I wasn’t about to sign up to a system that has been shown to be insecure, open to fraud, that couldn’t safeguard my personal data from rogues and criminals and that couldn;t even give me assurance that my data would be kept accoding to agreement and contractual obligation, that has been shown to be compeltely mismanaged repeatedly. Money launderers are advertsiing on their job sites, all manner of scammers and personal details are being sold to criminals accessing it. I told them I am alrady registered and use many profesisonal bodies already far better sutied to my needs as a job seekers I had to and indeed voluntarily gave them the names of these agents, profesional recruitment agencies adhering to standards and contractual agreement with me. Their system even I warranted even broke Monopolies Commsission Laws, a violation of my conservative principels 😉 of free market economy.
UPDATE >> Guess what, the same agencies I am registered have now found me work !
My persoanl view the one I will not go on record formally with them as stating is that UJM is a sanction engine designed to steal money from the poorest and most vulenrable in society. It is a violation of data protection our protections and rights as EU citizens, by a corrupt UK government that is heinous in its victimisaitons of those it sees as weak and therefore (it thinks) prone to its abuses and larceny.
Hell … do not be political activists before them for they will attack. They sense fear and look for weakness. They single out trouble makers (those of us that stand up to their bullying) for sure. They even committed one poor man to the Courts and had him arrested for standing up to them in one centre recently. Play it cool.
Play the game if you must
Never give up at finding work striving for that which is your right…to earn and live…
& most of all never let them grind you down
Personally I will not be signing.
We_Are_Spartus.
Isn’t it amazing that most of the people on this thread have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. They seem more worried about getting out of looking for a job than anything else. My partner has just found work – through Universal Jobmatch – but obviously there’s no jobs! Who cares about these issues with permissions and all that crap if it works? Grow up, please!
We are pleased your fella found a job;
I hope it doesnt turn out he is treated like a dog,suffers mental abuse and worked like a donkey under the threat of being sacked and sanctioned . The changes that have been implemented have changed the boss /worker relationship entirely and no matter how many people find jobs through it, U.J. is a diabolicaly flawed and dangerous tool. Just 20 mins ago I got a call from a call center about claiming back P.P.I.
The kid asked for me by name,and only place they could have got my name and that unregistered telephone number is through the U.J. system. The sim was acquired deliberately for that purpose and nothing else! If your husband goes to work and finds he has to shovel and wheel barrow 20 tons of cooling tarmac across a car park with 3 hrs a day travel and only get minimum wages,perhaps you will feel different when he fails to make it out of bed on the fifth day and gets the sack.
Experiences of this nature are common.
Gain some experience in your own life in such matters before using somebody else as an example. This thread is not about staying out of work. Open your eyes.
Wake up, please.
This is dedicated to you glynis.
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Hi there. I posted here recently, but I cant find my last post now lol. My last post was about UJM, and about my next appointment with a adviser about this very matter. I went to that next appointment today and recorded it. http://youtu.be/njLqmmPzwUs Have a listen and tell me what you think. The adviser got a bee in his bonnet because he couldn’t make me sign up for UJM, and he got very shirty because I wouldn’t email him a copy of my CV. I kept telling him I would bring in a soft copy to show him on my next appointment. He Said: “Right, tomorrow at 9” even without checking his appointment schedule.
Hello again I am resisting signing up to UJM, but if I did how do they use that against you to sanction you. Is it just by the mere fact that you don’t sign up to it, is that how you get sanctioned. Regards
You must sign up and create an account or they CAN AND WILL sanction you, but they cant force you to tick the box allowing them access to your account. Yet. If you dont tick that box they have no way of seeing what you do on the site, when, etc etc. They may make you come in every day if you dont tick it, but thats an opportunity for a walk and to use there pc’s. Dont let them look over your shoulder at your account! !
Since I’ve had my 1st interview of Post WP intensive job search you now have to tick the box, if you don’t you get a direction & if you don’t tick it before the next interview you get a sanction.
so have they change the toolkit where it says you do not have to tick the box?
Well for the last 3 months I’ve been showing them print outs of my job search when I sign on because I haven’t giving them access, then after 1st interview of Post WP they wanted access to UJ, I said no (my consent) they were gonna give me direction.
But in toolkit
53. You also cannot issue a Jobseeker’s Direction to mandate a claimant to
give us access to their account – this is their decision not ours.
If they havent changed the tool kit, it would seem that advisers are breaking rules as time goes on, hoping no-one will challenge them.
I don’t understand what you mean by toolkit. So far I am saying no to UJM as I am not obliged to. There is a link on here: YouTube, where I recorded the JC adviser’s response.
The toolkit is a set of rules and instructions JCP staff must follow when dealing with UJM.
I think their are links in this blog to this information (it is a PDF file on the DWP website).
It seems a few JCP advisers are not following the tooklit guidelines (e.g it is not compulsary or mandatory to give JCP access to your UJM account).
Hi there
Is it mandatory fro me to set up the UJM in the first place?
Regards
yeah it is now 😦
I agree, I don’t want to risk it just in case I get sanction, when I get more info from aftertheworkprogramme blog site I will sort it out.
Hi there
Can you clarify that Universal Job Match IS mandatory please. Regards.
Which aspect?
Is creating a UJM account/profile mandatory now?
As it says at the top of this page, Universal Jobsmatch goes Mandatory.
A got this letter today
Dear elite (insert real name here)
We would like you to attend the interview at
On thursday04 @
We need to seein order to discuss the benefit we are currently paying you we need to ensure your payments are correct and it is essential that you attend this interview to discuss the matter to avoid unnessary delay please bring this letter with you and show to reception immediately on your arrival please ask for (detracted) if you arrive late you may not be seen you should not were there is doubt whether the conditions for entitlement are met we can suspend your benefit if you cannot keep this appointment or wish to report any changes in your circumstances please contact me immediately on the above direct line number to arrange a mutually convenient appointment you must bring one for of identifcation such as Passport Driving Licence or any of the following utility bill rent agreement Bank Statement if you /or your partner have any of the following bring evidence with you occupational Pension(s) Earnings Individual Savings Accounts (ISAs) Savings Property/Land . Any other income or savings Evidence of your immigration Status AND Right to Remain . if you havespeech or hearing problems you cancontact the Benefit Enquiry Line on textphone (detracted) this number is for both English and Welsh speaking claimants Alternatively we can be contacted by textphone on (detracted)
Yours Sincerely
(detracted)
Customer Compliance Officer
Has anyone else had one of these letters?
Not seen b4; ambush?
I had one last year. They have some official looking ‘inspector’ type, makes you wait outside a door, talks down to you, tries to put the willies up yer. Ole fashioned Nazi tactics, see if you hiding anything. Before you start, Say you wont sign anything without a solicitor as a witness to the whole interview with identical witnessed copies on both sides. . Tell them you wont sign anything, as you have already filled out forms and signed them, and sign every fortnight. If you get waffle about solicitors costing money etc, it means they are now getting concerned about pulling you in for nothing. When they ask you to sign what they have written at the end of the interview, tell them you couldnt possibly without the solicitor you mentioned, and you wont engage him unless you are charged with something as the loser pays the legal bill.There will likely only be one person. No witnesses. I think one works out of every office. If you dont sign what they write down, they cant even prove they earnt theyre wages. . DONT Sign what they write down, because they dont leave it unchangeable like a legal statement. They could mess about with it no end after you’ve left.
They are beating the brush to see what runs away.
Thank you Forearmed is Forwarned. I had been wondering how after all this time a been on the dole since 2010 they want to do this . He is coming from another office to do my interview.A thought someone had said i’ am working when i am not but if others have had them it’s fine
The letter if I remember correctly, is all worded to make you believe its dead urgent you come and designed to make you shit yourself with paranoiya.
(cant spell that!). Many people with meagre savings would jack the claim in before submitting to any more of it. Thats what its all about pal.
The latest shannighans …..After weeks of putting up with the adviser from hell , my husband finally complained about her. every week she says you need to tick the consent for UJM…OR why has he not done it and hes expected to keep explaining. He meets all the jobseeker agreement conditions, but this monster wants him to come in weekly and decided he lacks skills (without telling him so) and gave him a job seeker direction to attend A4E for two days training jobs club And then expected him to come in the following day to tell her how it went give her feedback. (bearing in mind he is going to see her the following wednesday!)
So he wrote a complaint that he felt she was bullying him and treating him unfairly and that it stressed him out so much he went to the Dr about it and he doesnt want to see this advisor any more as shes hindering his jobsearch. He gave the complaint in the morning on his due sign date and guess when later on that afternoon when he went to sign on he got sent to her! he refused and was told by a manager he has to see her and that the manager will observe.
After the manager told him he will discuss his complaint with him on the desk RIGHT NEXT TO THE ADVISOR he is complaining about! my husband said he would prefer to discuss elsewhere and the manager refused.
And basically told him he cant pick and choose who he wants to see. and the he is not a customer he is to think if as the jobcenter is the employer and he is the employee relationship they are paying him to look for work.
His complaint was dimissed with the advisor he complained out listening into everyything and smirking and he was told he has to stick with that advisor. They also got 2 security to stand around him despite him talking cALM and quite and not demonstrating aggression.
The manager told him if he wants they will make him come in every day…mental torture!
TOTAL UTTER JOKE.
I swear their is an official complaints procedure to fight against this (somewhere on the DWP site).
I would also write a letter to your MP (JCP hate it when you do that), and also local newspaper.
No one should have to put up with this (and this would not happen if it was a proper place of employment).
Treat them as if they were an employer?
I swear, the last ’employer’ who spoke to me like job centre advisers do remembers me every time he looks in the mirror, because I broke his nose sideways!
No employer would treat you as they do, because it would lead to legal action.
Thankfully, most of the rude ones are as thick as shite and dont realise they just keep giving grounds for complaint.
My father once told me career turnkeys could never fit into any other job when they took there early retirement because the environment altered them.I suspect there are exceptions to this rule but advisers beware. I would never give one a job.
In fact, I wouldnt piss on one if they were on fire!
If you’re unhappy with the response
You’ll be asked if you want your complaint sent to the Director General of Operations for the Department for Work and Pensions. They aim to deal with complaints within 15 working days.
If you’re still unhappy, you can then ask the Independent Case Examiner to investigate – they’ll be impartial and this is free.
If you’re unhappy with the response from the Independent Case Examiner, you can ask your MP to send your complaint to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman.
link is here :
https://www.gov.uk/complain-jobcentre-plus
FAO Pat Ato.
I had the interview today and the customer compliance officer was the same guy that is in my jobcentre everyday Because he is the customer service manager in the office. He said that the fraud department got an anonymous letter alleging that i am working it said i go out late at night and come back early in the morning I said can a get a copy of the letter he said a cannot due to datta protection and human rights act I said a would not sign anything without a lawyer he said he would refer me to a decision maker i have it all covertly recorded So he wrote the following statement it’s kept for 14 month then destroyed yet he said that was the end of it . i signed and have a copy
I do not wish to write this statement myself and i am happy for the departments customer compliance officer to write the words i say i know and understand that i must notify all changes i have provided a driving llicence as proof of identity to the officer of the department i am single i rent my home and recieve housing benefit and council tax reduction there is no one else living in my household the department of works and pensions recieved an anonymous letter that i am working this is not true i am not doing any work paid or unpaid the conditions of entitlement and been explained to me i am not undertaking training or education courses i have no caring responsibilities i do not have any other income i have (insert number)in savings in mu current account i do not have any other savings or investments i do not own any property
They were just trying it on. Its the same as what I got, except they made up a letter story. They couldnt do that with me, because i had only just signed on. Do you go out late every nite and come back in the morning?.
No i have a brother that is on nightshift but he don’t stay with me i stay myself. I have been leaveing my house going a walk at 630am and coming back 2 hours later not everyday .the letter said i go out every night and come back in the morning i said when i come here to look at the jobs i am in all day after that. A played the tape to my dad he said he at it like he was making it up as he went along
Yeah, there was no letter. Everybody should expect it sooner or later.
If you arent up to no good you got no worries.
Its amazing they would believe we would put up with there shit if we had work.
Interestingly I saw a dole snoop a road away from mine the other morning, standing on a junction hiding behind a lamp post. He was watching a door in the distance.
Black fella. He had a light grey marks and sparks suit on and cheap shoes and tie in the sunshine. Stuck out like a sore thumb.
When the fraud rate hits zero, I wonder what these wankers will do that justifies a wage?
Most of em have the I.Q. of frog spawn.
I mean ; Marks and Sparks? He looked like a 16 yr old going for a yts interview. .
A texted my sister and told her she texted back Her friend got the same thing .Told her someone said she was working so he well lied to me there was no letter. Bollox he cannot give me a copy because of datta protection and human rights .Said he got emailed about the report from the fraud squad yeah right. Where is my human rights ? a lost them the day i signed on . Here’s hoping when the fraud rate hits zero there in my position unemployed
i’m going to the jobcentre tommorrow morning to check universal jobmatch . my dad said a should ask him if a look tired there seen
http://inside.monster.com/policy/inside2.aspx…..here is a copy of monster.worldwide,s privacy policy they seem to have omitted the part where it says your information they have on you is subject to U.S law
Mandation to use JobCentre computer (IAD)
I recently signed on and was told that as I would not allow the DWP access to my Universal Jobmatch (UJ) logon I would be mandated to use their computer.
I thought about this and the first thing that came to mind was the time and cost of my travelling to the JobCentre as I live 5 miles away so would take over an hour for the round trip by bicycle or cost £2.80 by train each day.
I appreciate that they don’t care if fulfilling a mandate costs you money but then I got to thinking about what I could do on my own home computer that I couldn’t do on the JobCentre’s.
First its Linux and not Windows; second they only have Open Office and not MS Office. You can upload/download docs from a USB stick but you can’t install a database or anything else on the machine. I actually rang my local office to check. The one point I really did pick up on is that if your main email is on MS Outlook, you can’t access on the JobCentre’s IAD. I asked specifically about this and the person at the office categorically said no you cannot. I know that there is an Internet version of Outlook but they definitely don’t have this. My main argument against mandation to use their machine would then be firstly the lack of access to the email account; secondly the inability to use your own database, spreadsheets or other stored documents. Other arguments might include the inability to use special software such as one that enables you to fill in pdf’s online which is way better than having to print them out and fill them in by hand.
I then went on to ask about the necessity of providing printouts as proof of job applications. I said what do I do if I haven’t got my own printer? Can I email pdf’s to the DWP instead. She said no you can’t email them anything.
They can’t take any punitive action against you if you haven’t got a printer.
Hope this helps. I am sure there are loads of other arguments why using your own computer, files and Internet access is better and I would love to hear other people’s ideas.
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