UPDATE 27/2/13: Registering an account with Universal Jobmatch will become mandatory from the beginning of March 2013. There should still be no requirement to tick the box giving DWP access to your account. For the latest details and what this means for claimants keep an eye on: http://consent.me.uk/2013/02/26/mandatory/
UPDATE: For the latest news (as of 20/01/13) and confirmation from the PCS Union that Universal Jobmatch is not mandatory visit: https://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2013/01/20/universal-jobmatch-not-mandatory-pcs-confirms/
Confusion reigns as usual at the DWP as the bodged roll out of Universal Jobmatch begins tomorrow.
As recently revealed, it appears that some Jobcentres are attempting to mandate unemployed claimants by stealth to the new job-matching computer system. Other claimants report that their Jobcentre have barely heard of the new database which will give DWP snoops unprecedented control over how unemployed people look for work.
Once signed up to the new database, Jobcentre staff will be able to match claimants up to jobs and monitor all job seeking activity by spying on applications and covers letters. Claimants who refuse, or are unable send out huge amounts of spam applications to employers, may face benefits being stopped.
Of most concern is that anyone pretending to be an employer will now be able to use the new service to track down groups of claimants and compel them to come and be interviewed. Already the Jobcentre’s vacancy database is riddled with scams, sex work, or the kind of commission only sales jobs that are likely to end up featured on Rogue Traders The potential for abuse of the new system is terrifying.
It is almost quite possibly unlawful for claimants to be forced to surrender their rights under the Data Protection Act by using benefit sanctions to blackmail people into signing up to the new scheme.
Despite what bullying Jobcentre bosses may claim, the latest information from the DWP confirms that the scheme is not yet mandatory: https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://consentrights.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/universal-jobmatch.pdf
Claimants are advised to print out the page at the above link and take it with them next time they attend the Jobcentre. At present DWP policy, according to the most recent documentation, is that claimants should not be mandated to sign up – so don’t! (be careful out there, see below for the information on Jobseeker Directions)
There are fears that the new system will be used to home police claimants when Universal Credit is introduced next year. Under the new benefits regime, claimants will be expected to spend 35 hours looking for work each week. The DWP, or even Work Programme contractors like A4e, could use the new system to force claimants to spend hours clicking through the site or pointlessly applying for unsuitable vacancies just to meet this 35 hour a week condition. Part time workers, sick or disabled claimants and single parents will face similar conditions.
A mass rejection of the scheme now will help put a spanner in the works of any future Orwellian snooping into how claimants look for work.
It is possible that there may be some attempt to bully claimants to sign up via a Jobseekers Direction. This is a formal order which means a claimant can be forced to take any reasonable steps dictated by Jobcentre advisors to find work or face a benefit sanction.
Should this happen then claimants could sign up but refuse to grant the DWP access to their online account. Claimants are also advised to set up anonymised email accounts with providers like yahoo and hotmail (or some far hipper and more secure alternative that hopefully some geek will recommend in the comments). Don’t tell the fuckers anything you don’t have to.
It can be difficult to challenge the Jobcentre with the ever present threat of being plunged into immediate poverty due to the sanctions regime. Everyday more local groups are coming together to resist the demolition of the welfare state. There are many facebook pages and groups where folk in the same boat may know of a group near you. Please feel free to post any links in the comments to local groups established to support claimants (I’ll try to get a list up in the next week of so).
For more information on what you don’t have to sign visit: http://www.donotsign.com/
Facebook groups supporting claimants:
Benefit Claimants Fightback: http://www.facebook.com/groups/116432071735566/
Boycott Workfare: http://www.facebook.com/boycottworkfare
Disabled People Against Cuts: http://www.facebook.com/groups/DPAC2011/
Black Triangle in Defence of Disabled Claimants: http://www.facebook.com/blacktriangle11
Join the National Week of Action Against Workfare: http://www.boycottworkfare.org/?p=1741
Follow me on twitter @johnnyvoid
the void 
Pingback: Universal Jobmatch – The Brutal Farce at the DWP Continues | the void
As I have ALREADY pointed out, under the DATA PROTECTION ACT, a person CANNOT…I REPEAT CANNOT be compelled to give permission to a third party to access their private data. Fuck me, even THE POLICE must first seek permission to mount any kind of surveillance upon an individual. I don’t know who da fuq IDS thinks he fucking is. The Data Protection Act is the fucking LAW. It is NOT up for debate or ‘interpretation’.
The site is now live. Its still branded directgov (despite it being replaced by gov.uk) and its the same database system just a new design which looks much worse and harder to use! Of course with a CV match system bolted on!
I tried the site, did a search for a town… and clicked on just one job advert. I ignored the cookie warnings (i.e. I didn’t accept their usage) and got 15 cookies!!! Yes, 15 cookies… tracking my site usage.
They also have poorly formatted fields… for example the telephone numbers all don’t have the first zero. Waste of money.
Cookies 🙂 Yum, yummy, yum, yum 🙂
IMPORTANT!!!!
Read this comment…
Your personal data (CV etc.) will be hosted in the United States.
If Monster is sold, they will sell on your information. I am furious about this.
It appears consent.me.uk has been silenced. Or temporary issues?
consent.me.uk has been shut down by DWP?!
I don’t see how what you’re saying comes fromtThe Data Protection Act. It doesn’t use the term “private data”. There’s personal data, which specifically includes the data processor’s opinion in some way – so this isn’t going to be on a CV that you’ve written yourself, on notes you’ve added to your JobMatch account, or on an automated record that you saved or applied for a job.
There’s also sensitive personal data, which includes things like gender and ethnicity – again, no reason for you to put this in your CV or notes, and nothing to do with what JobMatch saves automatically.
I’m not sure what part of the Act you think covers compulsion to give permission for a third party to access data.
You seem to be interpreting the Act in an interesting way yourself. Maybe if you used the terms it uses and defines, and quoted from it, it would be clearer how you’re getting what you say from it. It’s not at all clear to me.
(I don’t like Universal JobMatch, by the way, but don’t follow your arguments at all.)
Um, maybe this?:
Namely, items 1, 2, and 6 in the above list.
there’s no need to repeat, I repeat NO NEED TO REPEAT THINGS WHEN WRITING COS YOU CAN RE READ IT AGAIN KNOBHEAD!
On the topic of attempting to compel benefit claimants to register with Universal Jobmatch, take a look at the jpg files uploaded by username weeta_bix as part of comment #52 here:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?s=b77a4482087ca43ff085e37ce873c8ed&t=4285701&page=3
It certainly does suggest that it is not yet mandatory but as the article said it might be possible for the JCP to make it a jobseekers direction which then makes it mandatory if you still wish to recieve the benefit. It could be argue that you do not have to accept the rules and not take the benefit but then how the hell would you survice.
Well, I have just been doing some job searching using the NEW IMPROVED UJ SYSTEM…..first thoughts?…..slow as fuck. But guess what?…I HAVE MANAGED TO APPLY FOR JOBS PERFECTLY WELL, WITHOUT UPLOADING MY SC OR REGISTERING ON THE CRAPPY SITE. My personal job search is very well organised, and I ALWAYS provide an electronic print out to show to the Gestapo every time I sign on. from what I can gather, the ONLY reason for this site to exist is to allow JCP to snoop on job seekers, and then sanction da fuq out of them when they are ‘naughty’.
According to the following JC-issued leaflet you cannot apply only search, so this is complete tosh then!
https://www.youtube.com/redirect?q=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FC0Kn9D9c&session_token=ingXULiKISw6r6TCSg5GcOvv73N8MTM1MzM1MTc4NkAxMzUzMjY1Mzg2
When you hit “apply” what happens next? Are you asked for any info?
Thanks.
Great to see the government doing jack all to create jobs. It seems they think if they keep threatening jobseekers, job will appear out of thin air.
Can I appeal to every hacker and botnet owner to attack Universal Jobmatch by every means available to crash it, bring it to its knees, and make it as unusable as possible as often as possible. Do us all a favour and fuck it up good and proper. Spread the word. Take the motherfucker down!
We dont need hackers as such, What we need is a co ordinated effort. If a large enough group decided to open their page and keep refeshing it, we would crash the site. (its called a ddos or denial of service) We could potentially do this every day until they give up on the site.
hi, like the idea. also think be useful to find out the cost this shambles cost to british taxpayer, at a time of cuts could be useful to break this to the media
Just DDoS it.
Oh and use this;
http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner
Clean tracking cookies:
http://www.avast.com/en-gb/index
There’s also AVG Free (google it)
AVG is very good,also install Scotty the watchdog{google it}
Wow! Just seen the updated directgov.
Really worrying is this section of the page, where there a pull down menu of options follows:
“Or, tell us why you don’t wish to apply for this job.”
No way in hell am I signing up to this, even looking at a page out of curiosity could lead a person to trouble.
And I keep posting this, but really, share this video, because it needs to be seen widely:
It’s worse than the old Jobcentreplus/DirectGov site! It keeps bringing up jobs from 15-20 miles away, which on public transport are pretty much impossible to get to. Ridiculous!
Scarecrow – Under Universal Credit you will be expected to apply for jobs within a NINETY MINUTE commute. 15-20 miles is nothing…
The 90 minute commute has been in force for a long time now, it’s not related to UC in any way. By the way, it’s also an hour on foot come rain, wind or shine!
Yes that’s true, but for some reason jobs 10/15/20 miles away are the only ones that show up no matter what type of job/sector I select – and I live in an urban area! The whole site is useless, slow, clunky and hard to navigate. The old DirectGov/JCP site was better.
Most mobility scooter’s only have a 10/12 mile range, don’t worry disabled people, you can count on your MP to come and push you the rest of the way!.
I cycle that distance to work five days a week.
have a medal from mammon. not everyone is able to do the same.
do you cycle down 60 mile an hour dual carriageways that have no lights in the dark?
That’s not so easy to do if you’re in your fifties or sixties or haven’t got a bike!
Are there any jsa claiment support groups in Cardiff?
As far as I know there is no claimant support group in Cardiff, but that doesn’t mean there can’t be one. I would be interested in starting one, and would like to hear from any like-minded people in Cardiff.
I would be interested in helping with a Cardiff claimant support group too.
I notice the concern about job centres telling people to apply for commission-only jobs. Are there any regulations controlling this? I have heard that some of these illegally treat people as self-employed although they have to work set hours and meet targets. Can people refuse a job offer of this type without being penalised?
Penny, In answer to your question follow this link::- http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/zero_hours_contracts_2#incoming-289730 I hope this helps.
What is this all about:
“Jobs saved by my advisor”
“Or, tell us why you don’t wish to apply for this job.
Job doesn’t match my interests
Job isn’t in my desired industry
Job doesn’t match my skills
Job is below my salary requirements
Job doesn’t match my career level
Job is too far from home
I have already applied for this job
I am not interested in this job at this time
Wow, talk about walking straight into a sanction (13 week, then 26, then 156 weeks (3 years) ) trap!
“Job isn’t in my desired industry”
Let’s see what the “Decison Makers” Guide has to say on this:
On Thursday 22. 8.13 the DM makes a determination that JSA is not payable to Wendy as she has refused without good reason to apply for a job in a shop that was notified to her by her advisor. Wendy states she does not want to apply for jobs in shops as she wants to work outside and use her trained skills as a gardener. The date of the failure is 8.8.13. This is Wendy’s third failure within 52 weeks. Previous failures on 20.12.12 and 1.5.13 resulted in a 13 week and 26 week sanction being imposed. As this is Wendy’s third failure within 52 weeks of the previous failure and the most recent failure resulted in a 26 week sanction being imposed the sanction will be for 156 weeks.
It is ridiculous to expect people to spend 35 hours a week looking for work. When I was on those Gateway to Work Schemes a couple of times (when it was New Deal, before Workfare), you would find that you would apply for all the jobs that you are suitable for during the first couple of days, do more Job Search on the third day and find that there were no new vacancies and this was when I applied even for jobs which I wouldn’t normally consider because the hours were crap (e.g. a cleaning job for five hours a week, or something stupid like that…). Then after actual jobs you then move on to specs which I’ve found in all my time only to ever work once (in that it almost got a job interview – a vets was looking for a trainee vet nurse, but when they did the finances they found that they couldn’t afford to take someone on, so they phoned up on the day of the interview to cancel it and this was at the start of the recession in 2008 – I don’t blame the vets because it is not their fault if they can’t afford to take on new staff.) The point I’m trying to make is that most spec letters are ignored and of the ones I’ve had back were all negative but for one or two. So what happens when you’ve applied for all the jobs that are available in any one week? To make it up, you send out spec letters again and I’m sure that after the third week in a row that a small business like a vets gets from someone that they’ll get fed up of it and bin them no matter how good they happen to be. The sheer impracticality of the system, plus the nuisance of spam, mostly from unsuitable applicants will make it nonviable and that is before you take into account the potential for abuse. I hope that it will sink before it has a chance to ruin people’s lives.
Here’s an interesting webpage from the PCS Union, it includes what is going to happen to Jobcentre Plus advisers in the near future.
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/department_for_work_and_pensions_group/dwp-news.cfm/id/541F146C-1297-4285-A5011259B0E337B9
Hmmm, With the computerised system up and running, I wonder how long until they privatise parts of the DWP and the privatised parts are outsourced to some third world country, bit by bit, until the DWP is all privatised. The banks and many other firms outsourced many of their parts to third world countries. Someone in a far away country telling you, you have been sanction by computer…
In China you can be sentenced to death by computer!
“In China you can be sentenced to death by computer!”
Believe me, I know somewhere else where it happens, only on a bigger scale then China!!!.
China Girl:
Were not far off that happening here.
You can also be sentenced to death by computer here in the UK, except that it doesn’t come at the end of a criminal trial, but after a human bot has used LiMA software to award you zero points at your WCA when your oncologist has told you you have less than a year to live without aggressive treatment.
When Universal Credit comes in – which it never will due to the failure of its IT systems – Jobcentres and Housing Benefit Offices with Councils were supposed to be privatised or closed.
Just had a thought. Can travel time be counted towards the 35 hours ?
If you tick the consent box you will be giving the DWP permission to monitor at all times your account…they will be able to impose job vacancies on you at any time and if you do not apply your Benefit will be stopped for 3 months min.
Also check your Jobseekers Agreement…the A4 sheet you get at the New Claims Interview …. that the words,’ I give permission for Jobcentreplus to have access to my account’ are not printed anywhere, as if you have signed this you are again liable.
The new Sanctions ( penalties ) regime is going to be implemented by Universal Jobmatch and the Jobcentre can remotely take action against you for Actively Seeking or Being Available through monitoring you account.
The monitoring aim is to stop your Benefit , not to assist you to get a job!
JC Universal Jobmatch 1
JC Universal Jobmatch 2
JC Universal Jobmatch 3
well not happy about this new job search site – seems to have less search options than the direct gov job search.
You can change the search distance (2 miles to 350 miles it looks like)
The site keeps on timing out as well.
identify skills gaps – well I have been asking my WP about training – guess what no money to send me on any college courses.!!!! (when on JSA was able to do 4 college course and the job centre folks were happy to help me and were pleased I wanted to do something, now there is a total disconnect between the job centre and WP .
Its odds on that fit people will face a sanction, anyone spare a thought for disabled people deemed fit to work by Atos and the DWP, how this is going to affect them, no chance of getting a job for so many of them, no matter how many times they apply.
Would millions of jobsseekers aimlessly clicking on the universal jobmatch site for 35 hours a weeks not amount to a DDoS (Distributed Denial of Service) attack?
If everyone on here is genuinely looking for work then why the problem with their JCP adviser having access to their account?
I would have thought if you were looking for work you would appreciate all the help you were offered??
But maybe I’m wrong 🙂
Hello Tara the Troll,
Because of a right to privacy. Article 8 of the human rights. I have no problem with producing evidence of my job search, but I will not be monitored 24/7 like a criminal. I have a first class degree in maths. I am more educated than the ministers devising these ridiculous schemes.
If you have nothing to hide meme is back i see. It is when you get evil nasty advisers who are only wanting people to be sanctioned. they will find something to sanction you.As others have said they are not now there to get you a job they are there to get you off the dole. They will always find something to get you on.
“Give me six lines written by the most honorable of men, and I will find an excuse in them to hang him” 🙂
— Cardinal Richelieu
Exactly. The more bullets they have, the more likely it is they will eventually hit you.
http://www.memecenter.com/fun/1035284/yuno-have-nothing-to-hide
One question I would like to ask the ConDems is: If you have nothing to hide, then why do you bother with internal doors in your (multipole per minister) houses? Simples!
If you were unemployed, Tara, would you take a job as a “life model” in an Art School? If you objected to undressing and being ogled by men and so refused to apply would you think it was fair to be sanctioned because you were modest? This is the problem. Every unemployed person simply cannot apply for every job for umpteen perfectly valid reasons. Universal Jobmatch won’t account for this.
Yeah there were sex work jobs in the JCP computer again this week. So a computer could sanction you for refusing this job. Would they send hijab wearing Muslim women to be topless dancers? Muslim or Jewish men to pig farms? Hindus to killing cows? I won’t say ‘will they order vegetarians/pacifists to meat industry/arms or military’, as I’ve already been on the receiving end of both., Lately JCP sent me to homophobic Christian employers who demand all employees to be heterosexual and Christian. Being neither I mentioned how that made me unsuitable. It turns out that JCP staff prefer to MAKE you suitable by changing your religion and sexual orientation. Perhaps they want to make you un-disabled. Next they will be telling people to change their ethnic group so they are more employable. It is mental! ‘And lo, the Jobcentre advisor prayed, and verily, the Jobseeker with no legs found their legs miraculously grew back.’ They will go on to fixing broken spinal cords and curing all diseases… I took ages getting them to change my travelling time to 60 minutes as otherwise I need the bathroom when there is no bathroom… Now the tossers changed it back to 90 minutes.
@ Tara the Troll: Does this give you any clues?
@ Universal Jobmatch
We are Anonymous. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us.
The last time I signed on I was told about Universal Job Match. They have just told that this is mandatory and that I need to bring my new user ID and my e-mail address to my next signing appointment, so that they can log it on their system.
Is this actually true? I am extremely unhappy about it, since there are various boxes that need to be checked, with terms that say the Jobcentre is allowed to basically interfere with your active job applications. They can contact employers you have applied to for feedback on how your application is going or why you were unsuccessful and pass on your details to who they feel like pretty much.
With the work programme I have not signed the consent for for them to contact people I have applied to. I signed the I do not consent form instead. Do I really *have* to sign up to this?
For anyone that doesn’t understand why this is a big deal, I shall try to elaborate, since before I had health problems my job was to develop websites.
Once you put all this information into the website, because the website is owned by the Jobcentre, they have admin privileges on the website. Anything you do on that website, will be recorded with the exact time and is visible to the Jobcentre. I believe in all likeliness this means:
– who you applied to
– exactly what time you did it to the second
– what you put in your covering letter
– which CV and what is in it
– they will also match jobs backwards, so instead of you looking for appropriate jobs, it sounds like they can put you forward for jobs they think suit you. Whether this would be done automatically I don’t know. This is very different to other sites, because any matched job, the ones the “advisors” find, and will almost certainly count as a matched job that you must apply for. I wonder if this could even be automatic?
If you check the boxes which I don’t know if are mandatory yet then they will be able to:
– pass any detail you have entered into the website to anyone they feel like, i.e. NI number, full name, age, address, sexuality, anything you have told them through that website. They say that there will be a on-line equality test before you can access the home page. For what reasons do they need to store peoples race and sexual preferences on-line on a web server? This is very private info.
– they can contact any company on your behalf, for pretty much any reason.
I find this quite outrageous, since the DWP already hold the most detailed database (I believe) in the world about the people who use it. They are notoriously bad for looking after this information and I can give numerous examples of this information being leaked in inappropriate ways.
I feel quite able to manage my own Job search and I don’t feel this approach really helps. If I were an employer I would not want to employ someone who needs the to Jobcentre to do all this on their behalf.
So… is there anything to say whether this scheme is actually mandatory yet? If anyone would like more details, they had 2 or 3 pages of info in the Jobs folders they where you wait to sign on… this is where I got my info from.
Hi Weeto,
I know someone that a few years ago got a letter TELLING them that an appointment had been made for them, date and time, in a nearby city to give a DNA sample, and to check on their genictic code!!!, (I kid you not), lt had to do with that person health record, they had information about that persons health!!!, who gave them that information ?, only the NHS knew about that persons health, the letter was from a private company that had something to do with a University (if memory serves it was a University in Cardiff ?) , seems they were doing this in many parts of the UK. That person had to phone them to confirm they would attend, they did phone to confirm they would, and didn’t turn up. Where is this all going, seems we don’t have any rights left.
I should add to my post above that it was this (and some other happenings) that made me think that what is going on here is that insurance companies are behind all this, building up a very big database that will be used to deny people who have private health insurance payments when/if they fall ill. Anyone that doesn’t fill in their private health insurance forms correctly and fails to tell them about family medical history “DNA” “genictic code” (even going back generations) will be denied payments, even if they didn’t know about a family members health, insurance companies will say it was that persons responsbilty to have found out, and to have paid the correct premium associated with the risk the insurance company was/were taken. Insurance companies are gearing up for the privatisation and marketisation of the NHS, and are already finding ways of maximising future profits. How many can afford to fight them in court ?, not many, the insurance companies know this!!!.
consent.me.uk is giving a wordpress error!!
just a universal jobmatch goes live – consent,me,uk goes off-line! what is going on here?
I’ll be optimistic and say it’s because of the huge numbers of people downloading the forms and letters they’ll need to say “no” to universal jobsnatch.
My conspiratorial side however suggests a government gnome is to blame…
Couldn’t have picked a better time 🙂
Anyone can re-post the http://cdn.consent.me.uk/universal-jobmatch-jobcentre-notes.pdf ?
I could not find the source.
Much appreciated.
found out via twitter that consent.me/uk are updating their website, that’s why it’s currently out of action.
IDS is appearing on QT Thursday this week @ 10:35 p.m.
Go get ‘im tigers!
Applied for a ticket on Friday for this and am waiting to hear back, but may not be successful. Anybody know who else is on the panel other than Yvette Cooper and Capitalists’ Den person?
Owen Jones apparently 🙂
Couldn’t have picked a better time… 🙂
Great.. I look at the new universal jobsmatch. under regions there are 5 regions. No north west, No distance
London (8679)Scotland (9214) South East/Southern (9869) Wales (5419) Yorkshire (11381)
Just phoned them and complained Telephone: 0845 606 0234, i would suggest people do the same.. Spread the word.. Say its clumsy, no regions but those 5, I object to having a company like monster have access to my details. as they have a cavalier attitude to data protection. Forgot to mention data protection act.. Phone them and complain every day.
All I need to apply for a job and complete my personal record of my job search activities are; (1) an email address for the employer. (2) the job title (3) JCP reference number. ALL OF WHICH are given out by this ‘NEW IMPROVED’ UJ. So, until JCP makes it IMPOSSIBLE to get this information UNTIL you sign away your LEGAL RIGHTS TO PRIVACY, I shall continue to look for work in this manner. I can print out hard copies of ALL the emails I send to prove that I am not just ‘swinging the lead’. Folks, you really need to understand the implications of actually signing up for this toxic piece of shit. This is not about offering an improved method to search for a job; it’s actually about tripping you up so you can get slapped with a sanction. DO NOT give sign ANYTHING.
If everyone on here is genuinely looking for work then why the problem with their JCP adviser having access to their account?
I would have thought if you were looking for work you would appreciate all the help you were offered??
But maybe I’m wrong 🙂
The problem is, sweetie, is that what they are trying to bully people into doing is ILLEGAL. It is in direct contravention of data protection LAW.
“If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him”
— Cardinal Richelieu
“Give me a job log written by the most of conscientious, industrious and determined of jobseekers, and I will find an excuse in them to sanction them” 🙂
Anyone signed on today yet? Anyone shown the printout to a JC Advisor? Anything happen?
Problem is I cannot afford to get a sanction.
“Sorry mate, can’t afford to get a sanction”, it is always left to someone else to test the water. Well, fuck that!
Do you think that the DWP amended their forms on the “data sharing waivers” out of the goodness of their hearts? No, they fucking didn’t. Your fellow jobseekers had to FIGHT for that. Your fellow jobseekers had to SUFFER to get those fucking forms amended. Your fellow jobseekers are being fucking ROASTED for trying to get information out. It is like all the “comprises” we take for granted – your forefather FOUGHT and DIED for them. And STILL your average yellow-bellied jobseeker will sign whatever is given to them. Something to remember when we are all burning in the camps.
Wonder what Cait Reilly and Jamieson Wilson would think, love….
What’s it with Universal Jobmatch “redirecting” cabinet-officedotgovdotuk and google-analyticsdotcom?
Here’s the thing, most of the jobs I apply for weren’t advertised on DirectGov and I’m sure the same thing will be true for Universal Jobmatch. This being the case I have to ask if you have to use Universal Jobmatch AT ALL as long as you’re applying for work regularly from other sources, e.g., newspaper adverts. employer websites, employment agencies and such like.
**** IMPORTANT QUESTIONS ****
IF YOU ARE MANDATED TO REGISTER FOR UNIVERSAL JOBMATCH DO YOU THEN HAVE TO USE IT FOR A CERTAIN NUMBER OF HOURS ON A DAILY OR A WEEKLY BASIS TO AVOID BEING SANCTIONED?
IF YOU PRODUCE EVIDENCE OF JOB APPLICATIONS MADE WITHOUT USING UNIVERSAL JOBMATCH SURELY THIS SHOULD BE ENOUGH TO AVOID BEING SANCTIONED?
*****************************************
I haven’t got a smart phone or internet access nor can I afford cyber cafe fees. The very best I can do is one hour a day at my local library – while it’s still open – if I can book a session on one of their workstations should one be available. So, at best, I’ve got FIVE HOURS of internet access a week! Filling in an online application often takes more than an hour! This whole sorry exercise seems designed to catch people out and sanction them for not applying for jobs that are too far away, or have too few hours, or unsociable hours, or whatever. This is really bad and brutal stuff which surely can’t work in practice – I mean pretty much everybody will end up losing their Jobseeker’s Allowance because it really is impossible to apply for every vacancy for all sorts of reasons! Will grown men be expected to apply for Nursery Nurse or Chambermaid vacancies and women to apply for jobs as nude models or labourers?
” I mean pretty much everybody will end up losing their Jobseeker’s Allowance because it really is impossible to apply for every vacancy for all sorts of reasons!” This is the point of it..It isnt to get people jobs, it is to find a reason to get people off benefits and the easiest way is sanction,
This is crazy.
A moment’s thought shows that it is. If I walk very slowly to the library, do one hour of jobsearch (the maximum possible), and walk slowly home that will take, say, a couple of hours. Assuming the walk to the library and back is counted as a valid “job seeking” activity what the heck am I supposed to do for the remaining FIVE HOURS of “jobsearch” activity every day to make up 35 of “jobsearch” hours a week? Reading the job adverts in the local papers, which come out once a week, takes at most an hour or two. My Jobcentre is miles away and a visit to it entail a costly bus ride, which I have to pay out of my Jobseeker’s Allowance, so I simply cannot afford to go there more than once a week max. I can’t do this. I no longer have enough money to nourish myself adequately. I can’t cut back any more.
How will anybody be able to satisfy a 35 hour a week jobseeking requirement? How is it possible? Are we supposed to march around our towns and cities wearing sandwitch boards with “Give Me A Job” written on them? Or randomly trying to persuade employers to accept CVs from us? How will older, frailer people cope? Or simpler, less wily people be able to satisfy Jobcentres that they have done enough on a weekly basis to retain their right to Jobseeker’s Allowance?
This is really bad and scary stuff.
Unemployed people are all assumed to be guilty unless proven innocent.
I never thought even the Tories would go this far.
“I never thought even the Tories would go this far”
I did. But, I have to tell you…
I never thought even the Tories would go this fast.
Jim,
I’ve been told (verbally) last time I signed on that If I continue to show evidence of my search but don’t register on (or use?) UJ site that’s ok. But we all get different answers from whoever we speak to depending on how they feel about us on that day & what they feel like saying …
I’m waiting for an ‘official’ reply to this question (from adviser’s manager) in writing (should be in about a week’s time). My concern is I’ve already agreed to (unthinkingly – on my jobseekers agreement) look regularly on the (direct.gov) site as one of my ‘proofs of job search’ – this is among other sites. So the ? I’m waiting to hear a reply to is “If able to show enough job seeking activity in whatever other ways can I choose to not go near this site?”
From what I understand their answer can be either “Yes” (what they should legally say) OR “Well, we’d prefer you did use it & so here’s a ‘Direction’ that you should”. I don’t know enough about the accepted use of these Directions but I think ‘refusing’ one could be a problem.
They can’t force you to register but are keeping hold of their final card – to state (by mandatory means?) that for some people this is the best and their recommended way – it’s got to be if they feel they can say we don’t have enough confidence that any given person is really looking and feel justified in compelling them to let us monitor that …
Try to resist.
its never been about creating jobs – its about punishing the unemployed and creating terror for anyone who is still working, giving employers total power. the whole system is screwed anyway. bring on the end, and lets build something better. ty for the info to fight it mr void – always good.
Johnny Void,
http://www.firmmagazine.com/news/3064/PM_plans_restriction_on_judicial_review%3A_invokes_fight_against_Hitler.html
Another day, another step towards the abyss.
News Statesman legal blogger David Allen Green said via Twitter: “Be wary of any Government which wants to remove the legal means of you challenging its decisions and abuses of power.”
Or, “Be afraid…be very afraid”
Ohhhh yes! Be very afraid!
First they reduce/remove legal aid so the poor can’t fight in court. Now they are increasing the cost of applying for a Judicial Review – one of the few ways we can realistically challenge government policy: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20389297
It gets scarier by the day.
In order to apply for vacancies listed an account is required. Unfortunately.
I do not agree with that.
Nope, that’s bollocks, I agree. Google search vacancies on UJ by title, location, job description and so on and i’ve found those vacancies listed elsewhere in quick time. In some cases URLs are even given to the employers website.
That’s what we’ll have to do.
Most of the jobs on the DWP site were only ever reposts from other sites. It’s one big incestuous spamfest at the best of times. So it maybe possible to see the original advert. That’s all that should be needed so long as you show your jobsearch efforts, it shouldn’t matter what the source was.
Being mandated to register is a different matter, and what the the jobcentre want this stuff for, isn’t that the purview of the awful Work Programme? I certainly don’t consent for these useless fuckers to have such access!
But the “work programme” will have access, after all they work in “partnership” with the DWP, they are two heads of the same serpent. Your life is going to be made a Living Hell!
Universal Jobmatch is being “soft-sold”: you need to sign up…”, as a convenient replacement for the “grey diary”, “you will be able to record all your job-seeking activity in one handy place”. If they could “mandate” they would!
Give them time 😦
Ghosty, I can’t post on blogspot for some unknown reason 🙂 , so I will take the liberty 🙂 of applying here if Johnny doesn’t mind 🙂 : “sales and marketing” is one of those “red flags”, always sounds as dodgy as hell. It probably involves going door-to-door selling dusters on a commission-only basis. Or maybe, it is one of those numerous “money mule” vacancies that the jobcentre is always advertising. I wouldn’t worry about it it I were you 🙂
It’s a joke. I had a look on UJ site earlier. It makes no sense (£££) to gate content that was never previously gated. This is of course not about helping us. The search parameters and the quality of adverts is a complete farce! It’s just more copy/paste internet spam from all these awful sites that exist as echo chambers to gather data/cv’s etc. Fuck that. Plus it ignores the search paramters you input. I put distance from postcode 20m and still get jobs all over the place. It’s just worse than the previous site – and that’s saying something.
And all that crap this morning was ridiculous. I went through about 5 different sites to try and trace that ‘job’ and in the end i’m none the wiser except it’s just ‘sales’. I think it was just selling double glazing on the phone frankly. Waste of my time.
Can someone tell me if the information on Universal Jobmatch here has been Hacked…it just comes up page not found, also the same with Consent me/uk
Couldn’t give a shit if the dwp site got hacked. But i’m troubled that the consent.me site has been affected. Don’t know what’s happening there and that’s worrying because it’s a great resource. Hope that data has been mirrored.
terms and conditions from the UJ (9.3 is interesting as they will never ask for your password)
9. Additional terms for Jobseekers
9.1 To register with this site or to use certain services and tools you will need to hold an existing Government Gateway online account or register for a Government Gateway user ID and password (for further information see our Privacy Policy).
9.2 You are responsible for the form, content and accuracy of any CV or other information that you place on the site.
9.2.1 your CV must not include links to other sites, photographs or videos;
9.2.2 you must not post CVs on behalf of another person;
9.2.3 you must not set more than one CV to be public at one time.
9.3 We will never ask you for your password. If you are asked for this by someone phoning or emailing you, you must not give it to them. If you think that your user ID and password has been or may be used by another person without your permission please report this to us immediately at UNIVERSAL.JOBMATCHTANDCS@DWP.GSI.GOV.UK
They must be able to access accounts based on email addresses alone, or NI numbers, or whatever. Which beggers the question as to who can actually access your account? Is it only your personal advisor or can any old Jobcentre/Work Programme employee check out your “activity”? How can anything this leaky ever be secure?
You get given a unique account id number via the goverment gateway system (but also have to add a password as well).
So not sure how the person who logs into the UJ system would be able to do this unless you give them a password?
Or there is a universal password back door entry system (which opens up a huge amount of data protection problems).
Just use the “master password” 🙂 How do you think fakebook, twatter and the cops access your account? They have “admin” rights.
You have “user” rights, you have to understand the difference between a “user” and an “administrator” 🙂
Put simply: “administrator” rights and privileges (permissions) “override “user” rights and privileges (permissions).
“password protecting” your account doesn’t count for jack-shit if an “administrator” can over-ride it 🙂
Is all this this shit not encrypted then?
As with all business systems, there WILL be a backdoor, this is used to add or remove data, view data, amend the operating system, add more security, OR BY-PASS SECURITY – now there’s a thought!
And various type of access levels 😦
They really need to be totally transparent in this whole operation.
No one knows who is going to access the profiles – that is the scary part of it.
Ideally (if you could really call it that), would be a JC person you know and have dealt with before that knows your situation.
also information about the cookie information they use :
https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/Account/CookiesAbout.aspx?md=1
Cookies used to measure the use of Universal Jobmatch
Cookie name Purpose Expires
ACOOKIE These are analytics cookies which collect information about how people use this site. 120 months
WT_FPC These are analytics cookies which collect information about how people use this site. 10 years
So set your browser to clear these cookies every time you close it I guess.
and use a cookie scrubbing program as well.
anyone use cc cleaner?
Top quality freeware!
I signed on earlier this morning, I live in North East Wales (not far from the English border) and was dreading expecting to be forced to fill in a form.
Thankfully there was no such thing in my case, was served by a pleasant Welsh lady who is one of the few nice ones in there. She just gave me a green pamphlet, with a green Universal Jobmatch card, it has the words User ID and a white blank space on it for me to fill in! Not likely to do that now!! 😛
She said, “IF you give us permission to access your on-line account, then you won’t have to fill in one of these job diaries any more, but that’s entirely up to you and you can still fill these in.” Couldn’t have asked for a more straightforward interaction, no forms to fill in whatsoever! 🙂
Now that sounds a very sound way of dealing with the situation. I wonder how other JC’s will act though.
Just asking for a user id and not a password?
hmm that sounds worrying as how do they get past the password section?
Use the “master password” 🙂
ha ha I should have known that as used to do IT!!!!
doh 🙂
See above 🙂
So far your JCP adviser is being ok with you, just wait untill the manager instructs the advisers to start cohearsing people to sign up to UJ, that’s when the poop will hit the fan.
worrying is the amount of data the public can easily get under :
https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/Reports/Reports.aspx
Dear DWP
Take your brand new Cookie Monster website & shove it ….
Kind regards
If this Universal Jobmatch is as intensive as it looks, there will be no need for the Work Programme or any Private Providers, as it will leave them all standing.
If you upload/create an online CV who gets to see it?
Does it become public property available to all and sundry?
The reason I ask this is that I uploaded mine to a couple of private employment agency sites and ended up having my email spammed and phone calls from people trying to recruit me to do expensive training courses with me footing the bill! I also have a few phone calls from people offering me ridiculous positions, including one in Iraq, and sometimes from staff at employment agencies pestering me to find out if I knew anybody interested in filling one of their advertised post – which was bloody annoying!
Until we actually know what is going on we ought to try to steer clear.
on the terms and conditions :
10.4 You agree that CVs sent to you:
10.4.1 will be used and handled in accordance with privacy and data protection laws;
10.4.2 will not be used for any purpose other than as a way for you to identify potential employees or workers.
10.5 You agree not to contact jobseekers unless it is about a job and they have indicated that they are willing to be contacted. You agree to only contact them in the manner that they have specified they wish to be contacted.
way i see it they have us whichever way you protest 😦
Just before christmas as well, pretty heartless if you ask me.
seems if you do refuse to sign up for it and allow somebody to access your profile you are setting yourself up for a horrible cycle of sanctions until you get to the dreaded 3 year sanction. So no way you can win.
Here’s the Universal Jobmatch FAQ sent to employers.
Click to access universal-job-match-faq.pdf
Universal Jobmatch – frequently asked questions for employers
1. What is Universal Jobmatch?
Universal Jobmatch is the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) new job posting and matching service, and replaces Employer Direct, Employer Direct Online services and Job Warehouse. Our new streamlined service is secure and lets you post and manage your jobs online, making it quicker and easier for you to find jobseekers.
2. When is the new service available?
Universal Jobmatch is available from late Autumn 2012.
3. How do I access Universal Jobmatch?
Access will be via Business Link and the equivalents in Scotland and Wales (Business Gateway and Business Wales). To use our service you’ll need access to the internet.
4. Who can use the service?
All businesses and employers can use Universal Jobmatch, no matter what size of company or business.
5. What are the benefits of using Universal Jobmatch?
It will be quicker and easier for you to post and manage your jobs online and find jobseekers that best match your requirements. The service is free* and available 24 hours, 7 days a week. It will also be available in Welsh.
6. What will the changes mean for me as an Employer?
You will no longer need to phone Employer Direct or use Employer Direct Online (EDon) and will be directed to use the new service on the Business Link (and Business Gateway, Business Wales) websites.
Accounts for existing registered EDon employers will be migrated to Universal Jobmatch
If you are not currently a registered user of the EDon self service, you will need to register as an authorised user and set up an account on Universal Jobmatch which is a simple registration process.
If you advertise on Job Warehouse, you will not have your account details automatically transferred. You will be contacted prior to the new service going live to ensure a smooth transition to enable you to use the new service.
You can create and manage your jobs, receive matches to jobseekers, view and respond to matching results, and invite jobseekers to apply for your jobs online.
Plus you can tell us what you think about the service and the jobseekers who have applied for your jobs by providing us with feedback.
* Your normal broadband charges apply.
Employer FAQ V2 DWP Comms 4 Sept 2012
7. How will jobseekers get access and apply for jobs?
Universal Jobmatch is for anyone looking for work. All jobseekers access the service via Direct Gov using an internet enabled computer or smart phone. They will be able to search and view jobs, set up an account and build and upload their CV. They can receive ‘alerts’ when new jobs are posted that match their profile.
how many people who signed on today (on here) had :
a) been forced to signup?
b) been given a job direction order?
c) nothing happened as of yet?
I sign on on friday and was told it was mandatory to sign up…i asked for proof…she didn’t have any at hand she said..Hmmmmm
what selection do you choose in the drop down box for job rejection do you use if you do not have a driving licence or car and the job says own car required?
“I am not available for or actively seeking work” 🙂
it is a trap 🙂
would have to use the distance to work option I suppose?
Could someone confirm that we dont need to sign up for this….One of the questions asked was would a benefit claiment lose benefits if they didn’t give consent and the answer was “no they wouldn’t”, but that question and answer has since disappeared from the original DWP questionaire in the past two days…so has the law changed or are they hiding the Q&A
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/department_for_work_and_pensions_group/dwp-news.cfm/id/541F146C-1297-4285-A5011259B0E337B9
Job Centres
In Job Centres Personal Advisers will stop:
Regularly recording job submissions and matching customers to jobs. UJM will propose matches based on information inputted by jobseekers (in CVs, profiles, and job search criteria)
Using LMS to look up vacancies, assess the local labour market and manage job referrals. Instead advisors should encourage Jobseekers to register for a UJM account and for them to give DWP permission to view their account.
It is important to note that UJM is a vacancy and job matching service, which is open to everyone, not just benefit claimants, and is not connected to any claims. Although UJM will be the preferred method of promoting job opportunities, customers will still be able to use the telephony channel for Jobseekers Direct.
Also from the PCS Union Website:
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/department_for_work_and_pensions_group/dwp-news.cfm/id/541F146C-1297-4285-A5011259B0E337B9
Conclusion
UJM is one of the first major attempts by DWP to provide its services online. There is likely to be management pressure to hit the target of 80% of jobseekers using the system by August 2013. Any reports of excessive pressure on advisors to hit this target, or any other issues concerning the implementation of UJM, should initially be raised with management locand escalated as appropriate to OSNTUS and national level.
I created a fake account to have a look round.
I found one job advertised at Comet – which obviously didn’t exist.
One of the driving categories uses the US term CDL, “CDL Driver’s License” which is their version of HGV. What a mess.
Hiram:
By using the UJ system, it has now deposited a load of tracking cookies into your computer, you better find and delete them.
that is a mess 😦
is there any option to put notes about job applications (I know they have the drop down box on why you are not applying for a job), just wondering if anything extra you can put down.
You can put notes under ‘application history’ and ‘activity history’ at the top of the page.
ok thats something, so I can copy and paste it into there where it says driving licence required.
Normally I use Firefox, but this isn’t working with UJM, so I had to use IE. That is the first time I’ve used IE for ages.
I’ll delete my IE browser history to be on the safe side
Universal Jobmatch is “optimised” for Internet Explorer 6 – the browser of choice in JCP offices.
In our Jobcentre most of the computers are still using Windows XP or Windows 2000 which is based on the old x86 unstable version.
Oh and they never Defrag their systems either and neither do the Private Providers.
wondering what would happen if this new fangled system could not match you to any jobs?
I fully intend to carry on using other job sites (reed.co.uk etc) and will just log it on this activity log section I suppose.
Interesting day, had a long conversation with my job advisor today regarding this, i was told you can still apply for jobs without registering your C.V the contact details are on the left hand side on the site, she then gave me a photocopy which contradicted this “How to use Universal Jobmatch” [same as the pdf on here], i asked if it was mandatory……”Not yet” was the reply !!!
I also phoned the ‘Information Comissioners Office’ to check if it was illegal regarding the DPA aspects, and they were very interested, wanted me to send them details and screenshots, i advise everyone on here to make a phonecall or to send an email to complain about giving up your ‘Data Protection Rights’
Tel 0303 123 1113
Email: casework@ico.gsi.gov.uk
https://www.ico.gov.uk/Global/contact_us.aspx
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I signed up to it before I read this. How can I UN-sign up to it?! Possible? shitshitshit
You can delete your account, not sure if that will be flagged somewhere in the DWP though.
You cancel your account by sending an email request to: universaljobmatchtandcs@dwp.gsi.gov.uk
It’s in the privacy statement at the bottom of the page.
that email address will never get answered, I emailed it 5 times and never got a reply
signed on today, they asked if I had managed to sign up for the UJ, said had quite a few problems and they said yep quite a few people have and to keep on trying.
Think I have a possible 2 more signings on running interference before they start cracking down hard.
By then hopefully we will all know the score on privacy etc
And how it is all going to fail and the unemployed will be blamed for that failure in the right wing media 😦
They CAN blame us if they want, just so long as UJ fails, I won’t loose any sleep if they want to blame us.
Any horror stories from JCP today for folks over UJ?
Or have JCP realised the system is very wonky at present?
Lets see how long it takes before the UJ system locks up through jobseaching/logging on and off/putting their cv’s on/putting comments on/saving stuff to their profiles)
If this system has not been set up right (and it sounds like it hasn’t from the reports of people using it) it will crash every two minuites and I can see this happening with a system that spans the UK and every Jobcentre and the DWP uses.
SYSTEM OVERLOAD – can anybody smell smoke?
There seems to be a lot of smoke here obscuring clear thinking – yes, this is indeed scary stuff, but there is absolutely no need to sign up to this thing. And even if a Jobseeker’s Direction is issued, there is no need to panic, as you have to have freely consented to agree to them having access to your data. If they want to push things, just tell them that you’ll take it to Tribunal if necessary; that costs them money, and as their bullying will fail, as the Data Protection Act 1998 is quite specific. Any attempt to coerce you into signing up would likely be seen as unlawful.
It’s worrying that they seem to be pulling all the stops out as far as trying to persuade/cajole people into signing up to this.
Even more scary is how the naive idiots of the PCS seem to have been pacified by government assurances that there will be no staff reductions – they have certainly fallen into the trap of being Judas Goats – but then, the PCS is riddled with Trots who don’t give a damn about claimants, obviously. If they did they would have opposed all of these changes all of the way.
We need to wake up to the fact that no-one is going to help us here, that we are on our own. We need to organise ourselves and resist – as well as exposing the Labour Party, the TUC and the mainstream unions for what they are – Quislings. This doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be putting out feelers towards the rank and file members who work for the DWP, the more intelligent of them are only too aware where all this is going.
We need to start our own movement to oppose all of this, as well as joing alternative unions who do take the unemployed seriously, such as the IWW and IWA.
How do we go about starting our own movement…I’m serious here….I’m in. They are trying to kill us!!!
To start off with, talk to a few people you know close to you, friends, family and above all others who are affected by this legislation. You can find interesting stuff on the Boycott Workfare site (www.boycotworkfare.org) and also you can find out what actions the Solidarity Federation are doing, (they’re the UK section of the IWA an anarcho-syndicalist trades union. Don’t worry, they are pretty open and don’t require membership, (but I’m sure would be overjoyed if you did join) and you can find out about their activities in your area, if any. If there aren’t, then why not start something? All it takes is a few like-minded individuals to start talking, perhaps produce a few leaflets, (or download some of the ones already available on the Solidarity Federation website, or those on the Boycott Workfare site) get some photocopied, as many as you can afford, and then perhaps go and picket a Jobcentre in another location to the one you sign on at. Make sure that you aren’t on DWP property, as their security will be able to move you. If you’re on public property, i.e. the street only the police can move you on if you’re causing an obstruction – which is what they’ll claim. Be polite to them, explain what you’re doing, and if they still ask you to move, do so. If you’ve already given out quite a few leaflets, it’s been a success, give yourself a pat on the back, go home and plan your next picket of a Jobcentre in a different area. It doesn’t matter if there is only two of you, but I wouldn’t advise doing this on your own.
As far as an online presence is concerned, and one is needed these days, a simple WordPress blog is all that is needed, like this one.
By far the most important thing at first is establishing connections with other people in the same boat, once you have a handful of people who are prepared to talk to others about the issues you will find that things quickly build. It may seem quite slow at first, but this is going to rapidly grow once it starts to sink in how bad this is. It could be that this will be far far bigger than the anti poll-tax opposition.
You could also look around locally to see if there are any other groups operating in your area, but if you do plan an event, a picket or something, tell others about it, you can always e-mail the Solidarity Federation about it and tell them about it, and they will no doubt pass the word on and that will perhaps gain you further support. You could aslo find out if there is a local Indymedia group in your area.
Simple resistance is very effective, they will threaten all kinds of things and attempt to scare you. Find out what you have, and don’t have to do. Do those things you have to, and refuse the rest. Then publicise what you’ve done if it’s been effective, even if it just delays things a bit. That tells others that there are things that work can be done, and that builds confidence.
Don’t despair, and don’t listen to those Daily Mail fascist types that will no doubt try and call you all sorts of names, both on websites, (there are a few here) and in the street also – ignore them as ignorant fools they are, as pretty soon they’ll be in the same boat as you. The only people who are really safe at the moment are Cameron, IDS and crew. It could be very bleak indeed for the rest of us until it gets better. It’ll only get better if we make a stand and assert ourselves.
I’m in the process of trying to gather people in my area to try and organise some opposition, and I may have something set up online soon – watch this space!
Pingback: Boycott Workfare » Blog Archive » Universal Jobmatch: Do not sign
somebody earlier asked hackers to bring it to its knees and fuck it up. i think the creators of this have done that pretty well themselves.
Pingback: Birmingham Trades Council » Universal Jobmatch: Do not sign!
10.7 When the Services are implemented, Jobcentre Plus customers
(including potential jobseekers) will not be mandated to register and create
a profile. Discussions are ongoing with the Authority and Ministers, and
requiring customers to use the services MAY BE INRODUCED AT A LATER DATE.
So this will become madatory later on.
and on Q8 it says: “Does everyone have to register to search for jobs?
No, but if not, jobseeker’s will not be able to access all the facilities listed
in question 7.”
So basically they can stop you money on the grounds that on Q8 you have failed to make use of all the services and therfore restricting your jobsearch activities!!
So they have ammended good old 10.7 from the DWP TLMS Schedule 2.1 Authority (Universal Jobmatch) Requirements dated August 2011. ehh?
My anxiety levels are sky rocketing, this world is making me sick. Information deluges, bureaucracy and propaganda assaults my waking hours. If I stand still the banks drown me in debt, the energy firms mug me, and officials prod me with a stick to see if I am a living thing of worth.
Can I appeal to every hacker and botnet owner to attack Universal Jobmatch by every means available to crash it, bring it to its knees, and make it as unusable as possible as often as possible. Do us all a favour and fuck it up good and proper. Spread the word. Take the motherfucker down!
Brian, No doubt it will happen, but by the looks of it Hacking might improve it.. 😉
Here’s a question i hope someone can answer, If i used, Say, Tor Browser..(Tor Browser hides you IP address) and then opened up a new email account within, say, under David(arsehoel)Cameron@gmail.com….
would the Government still be able to snoop on me and could anyone get my information from within Tor without me knowing?????????
They could still snoop on your account, they wouldn’t be able to snoop on the IP address that connected to Universal Jobmatch (you can connect to it through proxies anyway).
Of course your personal information will be viewable in plain text (unencrypted) to the Tor exit node (unless you are using end-end-encryption). Anyway, you shouldn’t be using this system for sending your personal information, if affords anonymity (of connection) of privacy (of your data). It wont defeat the jobcentre/provider snoops for sure.
if affords anonymity (of connection) NOT of privacy (of your data).
Oh Jobcentre. What we had was so special until you brought this travesty into our relationship. I now despise you more than before.
Here’s another thought, if as they say “this will be an essential tool to help you find work”…Can they use it against you as evidence to Sanction you if you already have signed up to this dont use it….surely then they would be admitting to snooping and I’m sure under the Data Protection act this could be a criminal offence….???
That is a tricky one as if you use other means of looking for a job and have the evidence to prove it you are fulfilling your job searching.
I think the only way of making the JCP see how rubbish this UJ system is, is to prove it to them (print outs of how useless it is for job searching etc).
I’ve just been forced to sign up with Universal job match, and told my activity will be monitored ¬_¬
“forced”?! in what way? Did the “advisor” twist your arm up your back?
just wondering how they forced you? Did they threaten sanctions?
did you say about the data protection act issue and also it is not mandatory (as of yet) and even says this on DWP paperwork? If yes did they ignore this?, if they did ignore it what did they say about it?
You’ve been done up like a kipper Ruth.
You have put your head in a noose, Ruth. You have made it so much easier for the JCP/DWP to sanction you or disallow your claim all together for not “actively seeking work”.
The DWP can and often do stopped people benefits simply because they got out the wrong side of bed that morning, this is fact,
You can appeal it, Yes, and you might win, but what skin is it off their noses when “YOU” are the one on the bones of your Arse for 26 weeks waiting on yer appeal being heard….
it’s OK for everyone to say..Dont Sign this, Dont sign that, I wonder how many of you have actually been in Ruth’s Position…..I have, and i question everything they tell me, so far they have backed down, probably because i’m not a Young Adult/Teenager they think can trample all over..
yeah, OK she signed up, because as she said she was forced….when you have nothing but a pittance in state handouts to live and rely on week to week it’s not easy to Fight them for 26 weeks….Those weeks for some could be the difference between life and death….So lets get our heads together and help each other, not put the fear of God into on another..
so could we please stop with the scaremongering…ie, head in noose statements…
I hear a lot of people Talking about The law this, and the Law that……Proof, Facts is what we need guys, not just maybe’s, or a print out from a Blog…..
yeah, i have read what the Government have said in recently deleted Q13, but the way i see it, they have you by the China Dolls using Q 8 against you….ie, you have failed to sign up for a service that would help you find employment…..Benefits stopped for 4 weeks, appeal doomed to failure. Q 12 week sanction….
we are still waiting on lots of answer from FOI requests on this very subject, until then i suggest we sit tight, waffle your way through the signing on process,
Just keep telling them that the site keep crashing on you, (hey, you’re not telling any lies) or you cant log in and need help…
Stall, Stall, Stall…Until we get the Proof we need to stick it to them….
One things for sure, if there is a loophole, this Evil Government will close it, quick smart…..We just need to find another and another….These Bastards must be stopped….
Time is running out for them, they know and so do we, so we fuck them over at every twist and turn until they have run out of time and are no more…
Stevie
I agree, until we get some proper answers from the FOI and also any response back to the letter from consentme the best thing to do is to stall the signing up process , still use the site to try and find a job, print the details out and hand in to the DWP as usual with your other job search proof and to try and keep a sane level head.
Sometimes fighting a system without the full facts is just putting your head in the lions mouth.
Remember information is power.
What are they going to to though, hand you an email address and password and an Universal Jobmatch ID and password at sign-on and tell you to use the thing,
Looks to me like they have everyone by the bollocks.
Either you sign up and open yourself up to being spied on, and then getting a sanction for not doing enough searching for a job, or you don’t sign up to the site and you end up having a sanction, for not using the opportunity to improve your chances of getting a job.
There’s no way out.
I think that is the sad truth of it,eventually we will all have to sign up for it and be monitored.
I expect the DWP paperwork and notes about UJ will be changed to support this as well.
has anyone handed the letter from the consentme site asking questions about the UJ setup into there JCP yet? If yes anyone had any answers or any rejected by JCP?
Hi dzwasp,
I have handed over the letter (I think it’s the one you mean but it’s been one of the longest fortnights of my life so far so bear with me). Only handed it direct to ‘adviser’ who has passed it to her manager, who did ring me a few days later (earlier on this week).
We talked (I used the ‘opportunity’ to try to clarify some of my other questions eg. about the use of and any written info. regarding sanctions in general – if any is available and for more info. about the use of ‘Directions’). But didn’t talk about the replies to questions in the letter – I asked for them to be answered in writing – as in the fist line of the letter. Funny but the manager was all for just having a go at answering them verbally there and then – but admitted she was going to be replying in writing anyway so we stuck with that. This reply is supposed to be within 10 days of giving them the letter.
(With me for now at least they are being ‘quite’ ‘nicey, nicey’ – I don’t know if they think it’s because I’m ‘new’ and therefore are less worried about me for now – or because they know I’m not going to be registering). They have twice said it’s going to be ok to job seek in whatever ways etc. as long as keep showing the proof – what else can they say (without bringing Directions & threats into it – I’m sure there’s lots more but haven’t had it yet). This is just the beginning of the process though and there’s obviously a need for everyone affected to do all of the above (be very vigilant/gather as much legal information as possible so as to be able to keep on refusing etc.).
Shirley..
I’m surprised you accepted a phone call from them….I’ll be handing my letter in just shortly, but i prefer any correspondence to be by letter, (you never know what they might be recording)…Preferably recorded delivery or handed over personally at the JC
Thanks – if I’m honest that never crossed my mind but it will next time. They rang while I was out (seems like a good idea to do anything I need to do outside of the house before next April) so I wanted to return the call if only to avoid any ‘doubts’ that I was having a ‘day out’ somewhere (Alton Towers or La Vegas). But more so to ask for an answer to the questions I’ve been wondering about lately from someone who is ‘one up’ the chain of command from ‘Adviser’ to see what their ‘off the cuff’ reply would be. So much for that: –
Sanctions – they might be referred to in the agreement I’ve signed & I should have been told all about them. There is no fixed criteria on the other hand, and each case would have to be “looked at individually”. There IS some written ‘guidance’ on them but it’s very long so not that easy to share and it’s been written to help ‘Advisers’ (not people like me).
Directions – ? Information on these was even more vague really – I think only when it happens in ‘real life’ will I understand the how/when if not the ‘why’ with these. Then we had the bit about “All of this has had to be brought in to play you understand,” because “some of the people we see” – then the bit about lazy, workshy, just pretending to look for work – I didn’t get much of this because preferred not to continue that part of the conversation. (I don’t know if telling me it’s all aimed at people other than people like myself left her with any clearer conscience).
An interesting chat but not that helpful overall – & this is the person who’s going to reply to my ‘official request for answers’. Can’t wait.
Thanks, will be interesting to see what answers they come back with.
Am going to hand my letter in soon
I signed this afternoon and was told nothing about the Universal Jobmatch. It wasn’t even mentioned. I live in Cornwall. What is going on?
Hi can someone point me to where in legislation this is please:
“Under the new benefits regime, claimants will be expected to spend 35 hours looking for work each week”
Thanks
I think that is the plan to come in april 2013
I just needed to find out exactly where it states 35 hrs a week jobsearch sitting at a computer is, as I have checked the Welfare Reform Act, Universal Tax Credit Paper and the Mandatory Work Activity and can’t find any reference to it. If someone on here can point me in the right direction it would be very much appreciated!
Jobseekers Allowance Regulations 2012
is that a proposal or something that is going to come in?
comes into force next April
curses 😦
really racking my brains how to do 35 hours of job searching when so few jobs about.
15 to 20 hours would be reasonable
I really do not think you could actually do 35 hours of job searching using the UJ unless you start looking for jobs everywhere in the country.
What a shambles.
Hopefully something sensible will come along but I do not hold out much hope with IDS in charge.
Looks like its all fucking stick and no carrot.
Thanks. I just wonder about this 35 hrs a week business as that would mean sitting at a computer screen for at least 5 hours a day in order to meet their demands also how does this allow for breaks as in section 4 of The Health and Safety (Display Screen Equipment) Regulations 1992. That’s even if one has a computer in the first place, surely they’ll have to use some form of flexibilty, but then again that may be wishful thinking.
having your job searching activity and time monitored this seems just like electronic tagging of criminals to me. God I hate this bloody government.
Jobseekers Allowance Regulations 2012 wich will come into force in June 2013:
This is all designed around sanctioning people, there may be a case here for serious discrimination against the unemployed.
‘Kin’ell!!!!!!!! it’s like banging your head against a brick wall trying to get through to some people on here. It’s plainly obvious that 99% of people are just going to turn to jelly and buckle as soon as their rocket scientist of an adviser tells them registering for UJ is ”mandatory” and will roll over like dominoes and do as they’re told.
I’m not going to waste my breath any longer trying to get people to understand, but i’m going to say it for the last and final time (hopefully it will get through to at least one person) so here goes…..REGISTERING WITH ANY JOB BROKERAGE SERVICE REQUIRES YOUR FULLY INFORMED FREELY GIVEN CONSENT. YOUR CONSENT CAN NOT FORCED BY THREATS, BULLYING OR COERCION.
YES YOUR ”ADVISER” MAY GIVE YOU A ”JOBSEEKERS DIRECTION” TO REGISTER BUT THE DIRECTION IS UNLAWFUL AS IT IS AN ORDER TO GIVE UP YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS – ABSOLUTELY NO LAW/LEGISLATION HAS BEEN PASSED TO GIVE A JOBCENTRE ADVISER THE POWER TO ORDER YOU TO GIVE UP YOUR DATA PROTECTION RIGHTS. THIS ”JOBSEEKERS DIRECTION” WOULD BE DISMISSED IF YOU APPEALED. THEY ARE RELYING ON (AND FEEDING ON) YOUR FEAR AND IGNORANCE OF THE LAW TO GET YOU TO REGISTER WITH THIS PILE OF SHIT. WORRY ABOUT UNIVERSAL JOBMATCH WHEN THE LAW HAS BEEN CHANGED, AND BENEFIT CLAIMANTS ARE NO LONGER ENTITLED TO HAVE DATA PROTECTION RIGHTS. THAT IS WHEN YOU NEED TO BE AFRAID – THIS ISN’T THE TIME. JUST THINK RATIONALLY ABOUT THIS, AS SOMEONE ON HERE HAS ALREADY SAID, EVEN THE POLICE NEED TO OBTAIN A WARRANT TO MONITOR YOUR ONLINE ACTIVITY SO THERE’S NO WAY THE DWP CAN GO ABOUT WILLY NILLY SPYING ON YOU – BUT THEY CAN IF YOU CONSENT – DO NOT CONSENT.
That’s it from me for good – it’s up to you now, over and out.
I signed on on Tuesday and UJ was metioned but only casually:
“You have to sign up and make note of your login details”, and this was not inflected as ‘you’d better do this or else’, it was more ‘in order to use it’.
Until such a time as it is made mandatory, I am probably going to cease using gov.uk’s UJ service. As far as I’m concerned they have added hurdles to the existing system and therefore reduced its efficiency and functionality.
Moreover, I’m not a ‘click, back, next click, back’ type of searcher; I want to open all the tabs of interest and go through them all, closing down the ones that are inappropriate. When I see my browser full of tabs that failed to open that require a series of reloads, I just think that the service is not for me.
I just hope that indexing services like Indeed are still able to list JCP vacancies, as I prefer to find work that way.
Can anybody tell me how these privacy violation measures can be countered using programs like peerblock? I am not *that* technically minded so I’m not au fait with maximising my internet security besides using things like peerblock and doing privacy sweeps to removes cookies and histories.
Curiously, I had a Work Programme appointment directly before I signed on and no mention of the UJ was made to me. Perhaps the sharper of the DWP’s providers can see their cushy £23k per year jobs standing at the end of IDS’ plank, prime to be given an encouraging nudge with something pointy and sharp?
With 2.5 million all searching at the same time it should be fun.
Holy shit there is some paranoia on here! I am a JCP adviser (Boo Hiss Whatever) I would like to clear up a few issues.
Firstly, we have been told that we can mandate people to sign up for Universal Jobmatch IF we deem it appropriate, however we CANNOT in any way mandate anyone to agree to grant JCP access to their account.
If we do have access to someones account we CANNOT amend anything on it, we only have viewing access, Similarly we CANNOT apply for jobs or contact employers on your behalf, we can recommend jobs and send messages but that is about it.
If we are granted access we can locate your account by searching your UJ ID, email address, name or phone number.
As far as I am concerned the idea of UJ isn’t to sanction more people more often it is to make it easier for us to see and aid JSA claimants jobsearching. Now I know most of you will laugh at that claim but, in my mind at least, that is the main aim.
However, unfortunately we do get pressures from above to look at peoples jobsearching and to take the necessary action if it is deemed to be insufficient, We are no longer allowed to have targets for decision making so instead we have “benchmarks” or “aspirations” and are spoken to if we are not at least getting close to these.
To say all JCP advisers love to sanction people and that this is their main aim is completely wrong, I hate using sanctions and only use it as a last resort, I’ve lost count of the times someone has told me they didn’t apply for a job but instead of just putting it down as did not apply I just give them a little reminder that they meed to apply for these jobs and put it down as not employed instead. The sanction regime is there for a reason (the recent changes are a bit too much if I’m honest) and it can be a useful tool if used properly. At the end of the day if you are not jobseeking then you are not entitled to jobseekers allowance, however there are other ways and I much prefer to offer help, guidance and support before considering any form of sanction and in my experience this is the same for the majority of my colleagues, not all of them (we do have some that would accurately be described as cunts) but to say we are all desperate to sanction people and get them off benefits is massively inaccurate,
Hi Spock…
I have a couple of questions to some of your comments here…I hope you can answer them..
Question 1..
Say someone doesn’t grant access to JCP, in your mind what would happen to that person, would they be treated any different than someone who did grant access??
Question 2..
You Say..”As far as I am concerned the idea of UJ isn’t to sanction more people more often it is to make it easier for us to see and aid JSA claimants jobsearching.”……… However, you then go on to say.
“unfortunately we do get pressures from above to look at peoples jobsearching and to take the necessary action if it is deemed to be insufficient, We are no longer allowed to have targets for decision making so instead we have “benchmarks” or “aspirations” and are spoken to if we are not at least getting close to these.”
Could you elaborate The “pressures from above” and what “Benchmarks” and “Aspirations” it is they are expecting you to meet and what “Necessary action” you are relating to…I take it you’re talking about Sanctioning here…??
Question 3..
I have been filling out my Job Seekers agreement the same way for a few years now, but all of a sudden the information i supply is not detailed enough, Now i am expected to give out Phone numbers, Names and addresses of companies i have applied for vacancies with, they have also asked me to supply the phone numbers of Friends and family who i have asked about work etc….dont worry, i have refused..as i haven’t been permitted by these Companies and individuals to give out third party information….So What would you consider to be Proof enough that i have applied for these Jobs..??
Also.
I have been asked to print out details of jobs, I dont have a printer and the Library Charges 20p per sheet of A4,(That 20p i simply cannot afford on £64.50)
i’m with routes to work, but i can only access a computer if no-one is using it,…and routes to work have group sessions of job clubs in every day..
question 4..
We may be getting waaaay ahead of ourselves here, but when this new 35 hours per week job search condition is brought in,
how can someone who doesn’t have a computer at home be expected to sit in a library for 5 hours per day…
Taking into account some small libraries (like mine) only have 2 computers (that appear to run on gas) and you are only allowed on them for 20 minutes at a time if there is a cue or if someone walks in and you have had long enough…
with the true levels of unemployment running around 3 million, and in some places/villages there are Hundreds if not thousands of unemployed, even a up to date modern Library maybe only have 20 computers…
so do you have any idea if there are guidlines for JCP employees to take into account this lack of infrastructure when a claimant cant possibly job search for 35 hours due to lack of access to Computers, or with the new UJ system will the facts and figures show up on the JCP system and will that particular claimant Then be automatically sanctioned by way of computer..(like with the councils automated Red Card system) if you have missed a penny on your Council Tax????
Cheers…Stevie.
PS…Question 5..
Why is it so hard to get the truth from an Advisor at JCP…I’m talking about simple advice like..”Sir, have you seen this new UJ thing the government are bringing in, dont worry though as it’s not mandatory to sign up for it and we will notify you by letter with all the legislation and facts on your legal rights that you need to know if and when anything changes”….
Instead we get, “here a sheet of paper that say’s stuff, it’s mandatory, sign here”….
why the need to lie,???…
Dont know about you, but in my 27 years of employment i would never knowingly deceive anyone no matter who asked me to..(See pressures from above)….No way!!
Spock…You can see why we need to question everything and anything JCP tells us…it’s simple, WE ARE LIED TO!!!!!
Hi Stevie, thanks for your reply, I’ll answer your questions as best I can.
1. No, we have been told in no uncertain terms that we cannot mandate anyone to give us access to their account and the only difference for someone who denies us access would be that they would still be expected to complete their ES4 fully where as someone who has granted access could put most of their activity on the site.
2. There is no set standard for sanctions or similar penalties, however if it is noticed we have not done very much in this area then it is mentioned that maybe we should consider being a bit stricter. The aspirations we are told about do not have a set figure as this would be seen as a target, and we can’t be seen to have targets for sanctions and decision making since the press caught on a little while ago and ran stories about them! I have no intention of using UJ as a tool to get more sanctions, I would only send someone up for a decision on their jobsearch if it was blatant that they had gone a number of weeks without actually doing anything at all.
3. Your adviser has no right to ask your for phone numbers or personal details of employers or friends. They can ask for details of the jobs you have applied for but a written record of the job you applied for and where you saw it advertised should be enough. I have alwys felt we should treat people like adults and take their word for their jobseeking activity unless they give us cause not to, I would hope that other advisers would be the same, alas, this is not always the case.
4.I know little to nothing of this mythical 35 hour per week jobsearch. We have had no official mention of it. I have heard it mentioned in passing but thats about it. My own point of view is that it is unworkable and impossible to check up on, also work programme providers do not have the resources or space to accomodate people for 35 hours per week. I don’t think it will happen.
5. I can’t speak for other advisers but I find it is much easier to be as clear as possible with people, if you lie it will only come back and bite you in the arse! All I can do is apologise as I am unable to answer this question but I will say signing up for UJ is NOT mandatory although we are told we can mandate people IF APPROPRIATE but even then granting JCP access is NOT and as far as I am aware NEVER WILL BE mandatory.
Spock..
Thanks for the reply, i’ll have a better look at it later as i need to head out for a bit….Live long and prosper..
Stevie.
Hi Spock..
One question for now,
you say, UJ is not Mandatory although you are told you can Mandate people “IF APPROPRIATE” what would you consider “Appropriate”,?? and would we be Notified we were being Mandated by Letter or word of mouth. also would the reason for being Mandated be in the letter.??
Cheers..
Stevie
I would consider it appropriate if I had a jobseeker who was not doing any jobsearch, or at least was unable to provide any details of a jobsearch, for a number of weeks, I would then issue a written jobseeker direction to sign up to UJ so I could assist with and keep an eye on their jobsearch. In my experince this is enough to get things done, I have never had to send anyone up for a sanction for not fulfilling a jobseeker direction, but then I suppose this is because I use them properly and not for every little thing.
The Universal Jobmatch IS definitely designed to catch people out if Jobcentre staff are allowed access to monitor accounts: Why else would jobseekers have to give a reason why they DIDN’T apply for jobs they had looked at? All of the listed reasons are sanction worthy, e.g., job to far, below skill level, too low paid and so forth. If the Universal Jobmatch was only to help people apply at least for a minimum number of vacancies they have agreed to on their Jobseeker’s Agreement, why are reasons required to explain why a user has rejected a particular job other than to impose a sanction?
Hi spock..
You said..
“I would consider it appropriate if I had a jobseeker who was not doing any jobsearch, or at least was unable to provide any details of a jobsearch, for a number of weeks, I would then issue a written jobseeker direction to sign up to UJ so I could assist with and keep an eye on their jobsearch”..
———————————————————————————
How could you force him to sign up if The guy refuses to sign up as it’s not Mandatory,
What would you use as leverage if he still refused???
Also How could you Keep an eye on his job search within UJ if he doesn’t click the share info with JCP…?????
Before you Answer, you are aware of the Data Protection act in regards to third party sharing and the need for written consent to share another persons Information with Said third party??
Cheers..
Stevie
Explain this then Spock – DWP update as of 21/11/12
Requiring Jobcentre Plus customers to use the services
10.7 When the Services are implemented, Jobcentre Plus customers (including potential jobseekers) will not be mandated to register and create a profile.
Discussions are ongoing with the Authority and Ministers, and requiring customers to use the services may be introduced at a later date. The Contractor shall ensure the design of the Services is such that they are scalable in the event of such a change in policy.
10.8 At implementation of the Services, Jobcentre Plus customers will be encouraged to use the Services, via their ongoing interactions with Jobcentre Plus staff.
10.9 For the avoidance of a doubt, there is no requirement to migrate any Jobcentre Plus customers information to the Services to create a profile/record.
From: DWP TLMS Schedule 2.1, Authority (Universal Jobmatch) Requirements
I am going to have a copy of this every time I goto sign on from now on.
SPOCK
You claim to have been told that you can mandate people to register IF you deem it to be appropriate. Have you any idea of the dangerous territory your wandering into by doing that? First of all, when you go the the Universal Jobmatch site, you are clearly told that just by merely registering with UJ you are consenting to it’s privacy policy and terms and conditions. As another person has commented on here consent is only valid in the eyes of the law if it is fully informed and freely given without the threat of penalty – it is ALL UK Citizens legal right to refuse consent to their personal data being stored by third parties (that’s right, ALL citizens, it isn’t a privilege for the few), so what you are basically doing when you force one of those ”jobseeker directions” on a claimant who will not willingly register is an order to waive their legal right not to consent and you are therefore forcing their consent by threat of destitution for non compliance. Who the hell do you think you are? Quote me the legislation that has been passed that gives you the power to force someone to waive their data protection rights (which you will be doing if you force registration by jobseekers direction.)
If you were my adviser and you tried that rhubarb on with me, i would make YOU sign a declaration before i did register that you are doing is mandating me to accept a privacy policy and terms and conditions that i do not consent to and are forcing me to give my personal information to a third party. I’m sure as forcing people to register by jobseekers direction is so legal you would have absolutely no problem or worries about signing it?
I am not happy that the terms and conditions on the UJ site actually say they cannot stop people from outside the database getting access to your cv and they cannot stop spam email (although they will try to minimise it to your email address).
Also the whole forcing consent to access it a huge legal battlefield (I suppose the powers that be are hoping fear will stop any legal claims).
I would have thought they would have had a properly secure system before launch.
Spock you will agree that jobcentre staff are trained to deliberately give out duff and misleading information to “customers”? I was. We all were.
Ex-JCP Advisor..
Was this part of a JCP/Public servant’s code of conduct…and if not, what would be the consequences of your actions if challenged in a court of Law for the deliberate withholding and manipulation of facts and laws that saw a Jobseeker lose his benefits and became seriously ill, both physically and mentally as a consequence of said actions……It’s time Individual Public Servant employees were held to account….Maybe then they will question the instructions they are given.
It was the Scottish Parliament no less that described the benefits system as a “Byzantine maze designed to mislead and trick people out of their benefits”, so it is safe to assumes that jobcentre plus is part of that deception.
As a pre-operative transgendered woman, I can safely say that the whole situation with being forced to give out my details to God knows who, scares the hell out of me!
I have been the victim of trans hate crimes in the past and because of this, I am extremely protective of myself and who I give my information to.
What is ironic is that I have recently had an issue surrounding D.W.P staff gaining access to my account as it has a “Sensitive Access” marker on it, meaning nobody can access my account without applying for permission first. When it is granted, it is only for a very short period of time and permission usually lasts for only half an hour or an hour before it is withdrawn. This “Sensitive Access” is there as a protection to people in my position to ensure that nobody can get hold of my details and misuse them in any way.
With this “mandate” to give out my details on the Universal Jobsmatch website to people that are effectively faceless, it goes completely against the “Sensitive Access” account regulations.
In simple terms,the D.W.P themselves have to apply to get permission to view my details, but they expect me to openly put all my details on a website that can be accessed by anybody who claims to be running a business!
I am extremely careful as to who I give my details to and I have damned good reasons not to give my details out to just anybody regardless of who they are.
I have already lost my previous job through a breakdown I had from the abuse I received on coming out and it almost cost me my life. I have no desire to end up in a place where I am subject to the same treatment again and risk another breakdown!
Spock
What the hell is the difference between targets, benchmarks or aspirations?
The fact is your are prepared to sanction people and that makes you scum in my eyes. You know perfectly well that these sites are not going to work properly for everyone and in my estimation it is you that should be offering and doing the jobseeking for your clients- the reason you don’t is because like advisers on the wp you would have no success unless taking credit for those jobseekers who happened to find work for themselves.
My experience … given a piece of paper which stated
“We agreed that you would use Universal Jobmatch ….”
Then told I had to register and tick the box marked “I authorise DWP to view my accounts.”
I asked if this was mandatory, and was told “Yes, it is mandatory.”
I disagreed, and was given a blank stare.
I said I would not be registering.
I wonder whats in store when I next sign on
I would get a print out of the data protection act (think it is section 8).
I would also get the print out saying it is not mandatory to sign up.
I would also read everything on this site :
http://consent.me.uk/
And also try and speak to your local CAB.
And carry on doing your job search as normal.
I said the exact same thing and got the exact same response, though she did say someone would speak to me at my next interview, i asked her to speak to me know as i was here anyway and had time to kill…Blank, Vacant stare, then a shuffle of some paperwork, the said, that’s you signed on Mr Stevie777…Byeeeeee..WTF..
Here maybe she thought i said..”Swines to Kill”…Hmmmmm
Will be interesting what they come back with in 2 weeks time
Its likely you will be pulled up in front of some super-charged bullshiiter at your next interview. Some JCP bod will be tasked with dealing with the “refusniks”.
But you didn’t “agree” to anything – they gave you a leaflet – talk about putting words in someone’s mouth! Fuckers!
Ive just come back home from signing on and was ‘introduced’ and given the spiel and patter about this universal jobmatch malarky. Adviser sez to me, ‘you need to register and get an id and bring it in at your next appointment blah blah blah’ so i said is it mandatory to register he said ‘yes’ so i said were does it say its mandatory? he said ‘it doesn’t actually say it, its just that we want to get all jobseekers doing there jobsearch online (????? eeer why do you need to register just to search online??)
Anyway i digress, so i said well if its so called mandatory youll have no problem showing me were it says it is and that i would not consent to registering until i saw that registering is a condition of claiming job seekers allowance in black and white on the correct dwp stationary (not just an obvious joke of a letter that has been knocked up by some wet wipe in a back room like the ones that have been doing the rounds on the internet). I was kicking myself for not taking a print off of the document which proves it isn’t mandatory (yet!) just to see the look on her face, but i will do next time.
She then started to look a bit uncomfortable and mumbled something about ‘well thats the information that the staff are being told to pass on to our customers’…so you see! they keep coming out with this ‘yes its mandatory that you register’ but they’ve never ever got any documents to back that claim up!
I deffinitely reckon there hoping and praying people will just do as there told and sign up for this dogs dinner, no questions asked (and most will sadly.) I for one wont be signing up until all the freedom of information requests that are out there are answered and hear straight from the horses mouth whether its mandatory or not. I certainly won’t be taking the word of some jobcentre drone who talks out of there arse for a living, and i suggest others do the same.
Here here Rumple…I agree.
We do nothing and sign nothing until we get the FIO request that are in the pipeline..
Just keep stalling…Unless they can come up with something official on official DWP paper then they can wipe their fat bottoms with that excuse for a letter they are handing out…..
I have also downloaded the letter to withdraw my Third party consent to routes to work, they will be getting that also at some point, but i will bide my time with that one as i have a good relationship with my advisor, (ex works supervisor) and i dont want to waste that….
but if i suspect that JCP are pressuring them for info on me i’ll sure as shit drop that letter on their lap…
also if i send that letter just now and i do find work, Routes to work get nothing from DWP for finding me that job, if indeed they found me it..it’s no skin off my nose who gets what if i find employment, but if i think for one minute they are becoming sticky with me they can fuck off and they get nothing…
I’m sure i read somewhere that these companies can get as much as £12,000 per customer they find work for someone and manage to keep them in that job for 2 years…….
maybe it’s something WE could hold over THEM…??
It’s worth throwing that curve ball at them anyway..”You be fair with me and i’ll be fair with your company”..ie, “routes to work” 😉
Stevie, it’s your duty to make life as hard as possible for the providers so that the whole thing can be brought to its knees. That’s why you should have declined to sign your data protection waiver when you were referred to them. Every time they get an outcome payment (up to £13000) that’s a feather in IDS’s, the providers and the Work Programme’s cap!
Sorry about the mix up over whether my adviser was a man or woman (not that it matters but i’m a bit anal so i must correct myself ha!) Anyway it was definitely a woman that i saw…..at least i think it was a woman lol the tuak must of weighed at least 20 stone.
Regarding this 35 hours a week jobsearching, I’m beginning to think it’s merely a new urban myth to scare unemployed people. Logic tells you it is practically unworkable, maybe somebody mooted this as a possible idea in some government DWP think tank session, and it’s taken root as “official jobcentre policy”. For those without home broadband they would be spending all day using work programme computers. The internet cafe idea would simply be too costly for anyone on £71 jobseekers. Ian Duncan Smith is on QuestionTime tonight, maybe someone will ask him whats going on.
Charles..
Look up to Johnny Void’s post….here..
johnny void | November 21, 2012 at 10:27 pm | Reply
Jobseekers Allowance Regulations 2012
Scroll down to page 5, .18
Oh it will happen…
Hi
I just read page 5 section 18 and it deffo says 35 hrs a week jobsearch. It doesn’t say you need to sit in front of a computer for 35 hrs to do this though. It would be conterproductive to be sitting at a screen all that time considering some jobsearch is done by going to thourgh the papers or speculatve calling. Its an area of confusion that’s for sure!
The BBC works on behalf of The Crown, (not the Government and not the Queen), so don’t expect anything that may lessen The Crowns ability to generate revenue, or give the game away.
By using the methods they are using they will get enough people to register (fall for it) for the site to make things effective for their plans.
And they are to have 500,000 claimants permanently on sanction.
The Advisor gets a nice tick in the box and the government save a fortune.
The trouble with Spock and his ilk is that although they say they dont like sanctioning people, they ultimately decided to become a JCP adviser, knowing that a JCP adviser’s main job is being awkward with clients and trying anything to get them a sanction, as IDS seems to be only interested in the sanctions regime these days. What can you expect from an ex-army man.
IDS’s obsession with punitive measures, distrust and sanctions, has now rubbed off on many unemployed claimants, who are becoming paranoid about sanctions.
I know I feel this way now, I dread going the the Jobcentre each time as I never know whether the adviser got out of the wrong side of bed that day, and is feeling even more of a bastard than usual with dishing out sanctions.
I have registered on UJ, but created a new email address and uploaded a CV with phone number removed. I have also declined to give consent for JCP to spy upon me via that little tick box.
They can have the 12 digit member number, but thats it. What’s on that site that I put on there is for me only to know. It is not mandatory to tick that box giving consent and until the law is changed, I wont be ticking it either.
It still doesnt change my view of JCP advisers, and I’m afraid most of them bring hatred on themselves by being jobsworths and treating their clients like 5 year old children. I have 8 GCSE’s, 3 A levels and a Dip(HE), so although I am unemployed, I am not thick!
On more than one occasion I have had rows with JCP advisers, and on the last one, I was sent a letter by the manager saying I had been marked on my file with a PV marker, and that any more incidents would result in me getting a banning order from the JCP office. Each time, it has been over threats of sanctions which I have disagreed with, many due to them saying I had not done enough to look for work – in their opinion.
I Hate IDS…
What does PV stand for….Possibly Violent???…Pure Volatile????….Possible ventriloquist…??? What?? 😉
PV stands for Potentially Violent. I think staff have the right to call security over to stand by them if they see a PV marker on a claim. I have had them hovering around behind me when I see an adviser sometimes since then, but not so much now.
when i first signed on i was made to sign on in a secure location…ie, behind bullet proof glass…I received a letter about my behavior being unacceptable and when i phoned and question it, they said it was something that i said on my application form and they were entitled to protect their staff..WTF……
I remember there was a question about my mental state or something…in fact, i cant remember what the question was, but me trying to be truthful said something like,”if someone causes me embarrassment i can get a little angry…fuck me who doesn’t…
Anyway, i spent the best part a year behind that screen,..with no help whatsoever to look for work, they didn’t even have any forms or anything like that,
The guy who signed me didn’t like it just as much as i didn’t like it, as he had to leave that room and go find any forms he needed every time i signed on…..it was a case of sign here and fuck off Mr Stevie777… ..
I eventually found some work and a few weeks after i landed the job i get a letter from JCP informing me that i was now out of solitary confinement, but my behavior best improve or i could be chucked back into the segregation unit or have benefits stopped….what the fuck are these people on…..
I still have both letters as ammo just in case they mysteriously lose all traces of this travesty of justice if and when i need to call upon it…
Ps, I think Spock has up sticks and moved as i cant seen to reply to him no more.. 😦
Too right , everyone in the jobcentre looks like a frightened rabbit, you never know if you will be getting paid one fortnight to the next. You never know if cunt has “raised a doubt” It’s with a feeling of dread you pop your card in the Post Office reader, not knowing if their will be any money to top up the lecky and gas and maybe if you are lucky treat the kids an ice cream. You can’t go on living like this, the insecurity and fear is enough to drive anyone nuts.
Single Parent..
“You can’t go on living like this, the insecurity and fear is enough to drive anyone nuts”.
———————————————————————————-
And once your Nuts they will declare you fit for work…and sanction you for not being available for work…It’s a Circle and it’s Vicious.
Has anyone got the link to the data protection act section that covers the consent issue?
Also the link(s) to the specific FOI requests about UJ?
I want to get prepared before my next signing.
Information is power and all that.
Just google ”whatdotheyknow Universal Jobmatch freedom of information”
I dont think we should be too judgmental with Spock here,
The Guy or Girl has at least came on here and given us some info on the workings of JCP…
He/She could just as easily came on and told us all we were just a bunch of scroungers and such, but he has chosen to engage in dialogue…And fair do’s to Him/Her for doing so.
We need more people from The DWP to engage with is on this subject…
His/Her job could be on the line here also…
if this government thinks they can save millions by computerising everything, and they can see that you are applying for jobs online for a certain amount of hours per week, why would they need advisors….who knows what those Cookies are that are hidden in the UJ Site, they could be timers for all we know… it’s a certainty they will be spying on us…by signing in you just give them the green light to do your own snooping for them…
How do we know spock is not a member of the DWP working in Caxton House, trying to calm the water over UJ?
He could be, just as he could be IDS looking for Idea’s that might work…
I would certainly agree that their jobs could well be on the line, but still they are colluding with the government on this issue, rather like the Jüdische Ghetto-Polizei (Jewish Ghetto Police). Though the final outcome won’t come anywhere near what happened to those individuals who chose to collude with the nazi government, (one sincerely hopes) it is still mystifying to me that the PCS union isn’t being far more vocal in this than it is, but then most of the ‘activists’ in that union seem to be Trots in my experience, and they, in their usual warped way of thinking probably want things to get much worse, and have the non Trot union membership lose their jobs and more and more people be sanctioned just so they can make political capital out of it.
I really do empathise with all those in work, as almost every job, (except Tory Wanker Politician, or any Wanker Politician, come to that) is insecure, but the only way to ensure that we all have a secure life is to take over the running of society ourselves, our own institutions that we all own, and which can’t be taken away from us. I have worked for some years for a local authority as a casual member of staff, and for a long time I did quite well out of it because there was usually plenty of work available, paid at the going rate for the job, even pension rights etc, and various enhancements. Suddenly, about a year ago the work virtually dried up, and I had to make a JSA claim. A couple of months later I discovered why the work had dried up for me: the local authority had started recruiting its casual staff through their own agency, and paying them a flat rate a good amount under the going rate for the job, and that was at the basic level of pay. When the various enhancements were taken into consideration, there was a huge difference of pay; for a Saturday night shift I would have been paid around £190 before deductions, one of the casuals employed through their own agency would be paid £90. No one has challenged this, as I think most of the full-timers are members of such radical unions as Unison, (more interested in doing deals with the bosses than representing the workers) and probably not realising that they will ultimately lose out. Also it’s dubious as to whether this move is even legal, as essentially the casual staff have exactly the same responsibilities, i.e. they should receive equal pay for equal work.
My point is this, if you are a full-time worker on a decent salary, don’t be complacent, stand in line with your fellow workers and oppose these draconian measures, join a more radical union, such as the IWW or the IWA, (you can be a member of more than one union as far as the IWW is concerned at least).
I appreciate that opposing the regime at work is difficult, but with a bit of care and imagination it can be done at little risk to oneself – ‘out’ colleagues who routinely abuse their power, leak information about upcoming changes, together with suggestions on how to circumvent the changes.
I once remember years ago having to sign on in a small town in Wales. The manager of the Unemployment Benefit Office, (yes, they were separate from the Jobcentre then) was great, and suggested to me that instead of going to the trouble of travelling the seven miles in every fortnight on the bus to sign on, that I could have a postal claim… and visit the UBO once every six months! All I had to do was get a local person of standing to countersign my postal claim, and then I had to send it in… they even paid for the postage at first, but that was withdrawn after a few months. In those days the Jobcentre staff usually did their utmost to help you, okay, the odd one was a nasty piece of work, but most were decent people trying their best to make things better. There were comprehensive schemes available such as the Community Programme which involved real work on local projects paid at the manual rate of local authority workers, (in 1982 it was £2.20 an hour) and there were also training courses available through the Skillcentres, which offered very good training, but were sadly privatised in the mid 80s by Thatcher and her crew, thus asset stripping yet more of what once belonged to us, and also helped ensure that there was a skill shortage in the ensuing years.
Things move on, but I think it’s time for us all to reassess and remember some things from the past. Sure, it wasn’t a perfect harmonious society, but in many ways it was a darned sight more humane and civilised.
There is one reason that screams to me that registering with Universal Jobmatch can’t be mandatory and it’s something that no one else seems to have thought of. UJ is a Tory wet dream! It’s basically like an ankle tag on the unemployed and it will be very easy for them to sanction people if we sign up for this so they DESPERATELY want people to register right?. Well if it really was all above board and completely legal and they could make us register whether we like it or not, don’t you think that each and every one of us would have been picking a mandatory activity notice off the mat first thing Monday morning ordering us to register the very day UJ went ”live”?
It’s just like when we’re put on the work program, We all get a letter straight away which says ”it is a condition of receiving Jobseeker’s Allowance that you take part in the work programme and your benefit could be affected if you do not take part”. They can even quote the legislation in those letters that makes the Work Programme supposedly mandatory ’employability and skills act’ or something (i might have got that completely wrong but it’s something like that). Strange how they can’t seem to do that with this ”mandatory” Universal Jobmatch tickle……hmmm very strange indeed…..
Good point.
They just have us all in a such a state of terror that they think we will sign anything they put in front of us.
“We were just following orders” comes to mind.
A lot of people on here are talking about possible sanctions (ie, having your JSA money stopped for a period of time). I’m a little bit wet behind the ear on this so excuse my ignorance but, what do the government expect you to live on, will you be entitled to some kind of crisis loan/payment etc, or are you just expected to beg on the streets. (I did ask a Jobseeker advisor this when she told me my jobsearches weren’t adequate and i was in danger of losing my £71 a week, .. when I asked her what I would be expected to live on, all I got was a shrug of the shoulders). There are seriously times when a nice prison cell sounds quite cushy, .. a roof over my head, one or two hot meals a day and a book to read, I don’t ask much to be contented.
Charles,
if you sign this UJ and you end up on the wrong end of your third sanction…you better go ask a lawyer what you need to do to get a three stretch….either that or you are a dead man walking…
As far as your advisor just shrugging here shoulders, that what we have been talking about here with regards to the attitude of certain individuals at JCP….a fucking shrug of the shoulders, they are Public Servants FFS….the clue is in the name “PUBLIC” “SERVANT”…they are supposed to serve the Public not just shrug their fucking shoulders…
You would be allowed to claim a hardship allowance which i think is about 40 odd quid a week, but you can only get that if your classed as being ‘vulnerable’ which i suppose means preggers or a bit mentally slow etc. Other than that they expect you to just go and quietly starve to death.
And your not alone in starting to think a life in prison would be better than living like this. The unemployed are now viewed as being as low as paedos and rapists thanks to our wonderful press so don’t expect any sympathy from the great british public if you do end up starving on the street cause your benefits have been stopped. God help us all.
Well..As from the 5th of this month I have been sanctioned with an impending drawn out decision based on my non useage of site.
Reasons for this after being coerced into signing..not being told there was any option. I am a single parent of two children and I live in a very remote village In East Anglia..My router went down just after Christmas and I was unable to get another for a short period.I also then had hardware issues with my laptop/ All of this I explained to the advisor who I had to sign with.
“No excuse” I was told! I should have fronted the ten pound it costs me to get a cab into my nearest Town to be searching online for a job. Bearing in mind I have to attend numerous ..utterly time wasting repetitive “Back to work” interviews..Each time.. again at a cost of £10 for a cab.
Now..The advisor told me she was going to send a form to the decision maker, based on her having looked at my account..which had zero activity of course, other than the sign up. Despite the fact that I had an application form at hand for a job that will be opening up to suit my individual needs..For instance to fit around the kids,within walking distance etc. I told her I was chasing up character refs and would be handing in that application to the potential employers. I told her I had checked the papers job section and that I had left my details with another local employer that week. It doesn’t matter..none of that shit matters..What matters is they are looking for anything at all to make your life even more hellish than it is already.
The following week received a letter re the suspension since 5th Jan,based on non useage of the site. Spent a wasteful half hour on a “back to work interview” My advisor upon having read the letter ..Re: suspension.Suggested a “Hardship fund” application. I was in my local jobcentre for two hours with the usual ineptitude. They couldn’t get it to print and therefore could not get my signature that day.. Again,total fuck up!
Today I received a call re the “Hardship fund” I do not qualify for the £40 payment as apparently can feed, clothe,keep warm,pay utilities, the extra housing benefit I am now responsible for each month..not to mention debts accrued ..All because I receive the max tax credits because of my kids and of course the Child benefit package.
Not only have I lost my money from as far back as the 5th, the decision has not yet been made on further action as of yet. I am due to spend more money signing on this week with the likelihood of no further payment
Get the PCS printout showing you should not get sanctioned.
Also find the FOI showing you should not get sanctioned.
Take that into your advisor.
Also ask for the area managers name.
I would also ask for the appeal information (I think a form comes with a sanction letter).
Also have the proof you have been searching for jobs and the applications you have made.
Take all that info to CAB if you can as well.
Japinky,
I’d probably have a bit of sympathy for you if you hadn’t repeatedly said “£10 cab fare” to get to the Job Centre, round here we have these big orange things called buses and they tend to be a lot cheaper,
As for your JSA advisor sanctioning you for not job searching……………ever heard of a pen and paper? UJ is not yet MANDATORY and as such as long as you provide evidence of job searching you will not be sanctioned. If you had written it down you’d still be getting benefits.
Your benefits have been stopped simply because you had no proof you had been actively seeking work, we advise everyone we deal with to not only use the online one but also keep a note of jobs they’ve applied for to show the JCP in case for any reason they can’t access your UJ pages.
Before UJ came in you would have had a Jobsearch book to fill in and if you hadn’t filled it in you would have had your benefits stopped. Why should this be any different?
From the sound of your post (and the fact you taxi everywhere) you receive a substantial amount in tax credits (the max according to you) and child benefit package, on top of your housing, council tax etc etc but find it ridiculous that you are asked to PROVE that you are looking for work?
Not a lot to ask really is it?
(i now await the bandwagon of hate that will be rolled my way by a certain section of this thread)
not a bandwagon of hate. just a warning that if you jump down someone’s throat like this again when they are telling their story, asking for help or discussing their experiences then you can fuck off. Unlike you Adrian, people here are real and have real lives and don’t come here to face abuse from jumped up little shits.
Johnny,
A warning or a threat?
In what way did I “Jump down her throat?”
By pointing out that she should have written down her jobsearch if she couldn’t use her computer?
Or by pointing out that if she’s complaining about paying £10 for a taxi she could always use the bus?
Or by pointing out that UJ is NOT MANDATORY
Or is it just the fact that I objected to the person complaining about being asked for proof of looking for work and complying with the condition of her receiving benefits?
Perhaps if I just blindly agreed with every post on here and called everyone that disagreed with you a Nazi or a cunt I wouldn’t be singled out for personal messages from you?
As I mentioned in my last reply to one of your personal messages I notice you have not jumped on one person that has attacked any of my posts and accused them of “jumping down my throat” or “refusing to allow me to tell my story”
Funny that isn’t it?
I get the impression that you have no intention of allowing any other opinion than yours on here.
One question though…….At what point in any of my posts did I say my name was Adrian?
If that is indeed my name aren’t you breaking your own data protection rules by publishing it?
Or is that another rule that only applies to your allies?
Oh and one thing I‘ve been meaning to point out………The urban myth about the master password.
There is no master password
There has never been a master password
There will never be a master password.
If one actually existed why would they be sending people back to me that haven’t ticked “allow dwp access” on their profile?
That is paranoia gone mad. Plain and simple.
Unlike you I don’t mind my opinon/view being challenged and would certainly not say “if you don’t do as I say you can fuck off”
1. But then again according to you I’m a figment of peoples imaginations because in your own words “Unlike you Adrian, people here are real and have real lives and don’t come here to face abuse from jumped up little shits.”
I don’t expect a reply.
As a matter of interest. Did you check the box to allow DWP to view your account ?
In response to “the artist formerly known as…” I would like to say that actually there are a distinct lack of busses in our neck of the country, especially for someone who lives off the beaten track…or down a single track road in this case! The nearest bus stop is a two mile walk away, but even when you get to it there is only one bus into and out of the nearest town which leaves you an hour and a half to be in town…and did I mention that this bus goes in the middle of the day? Not much use when your sign-on time is 9:05am. Japinky was told that she had to use this system, that the book was no longer accepted as proof of looking for work. She told them what she had been doing to look for jobs but unfortunately that wasn’t good enough. She went into the JSP to sign on this week, she had written down what she had been doing, that she was browsing the site anon, which jobs she had applied for, which jobs she had phoned up about and was told yet again, that it wasn’t good enough and had to fill in a form explaining why she hadn’t done enough to look for work. As for her income, I’d love to see you survive and feed a family on the money she gets! £10 for a cab might be a lot of money, but she has no choice if she wants to get anywhere locally. Perhaps you should ask questions before jumping to conclusions in future. When she went in to sign on this week she could hear the man next to her being told off because he had lost his password for the site, he had written down what he had been doing instead, he also told them the good news that his former employer wanted him to come back to work in 2 weeks. The staff member was rude and aggressive with him. She told him that he had to use the system, that he would get no money if he didn’t and made him log in on the computer so he could presumably get his password reset. It seems to me that the JSP staff here are obviously useless, when Japinky went for her back to work interview they didn’t even do a better off calculation, she asked about it the next time she went in and was told by someone else (who looked very surprised) that she should have had that done at that point. She was asked if she would like to attend a course recently, she said that she would as she thought it could be helpful in the job that she was going to be applying for, but she never heard any more about it! She waited for a phone call or letter but nothing came, she asked about it when she went to sign on and was told that ‘someone else deals with that so you’ll have to make an appointment to discuss it with them’. The next time she had an interview she was asked why she hadn’t attended the course, she had been given no details and didn’t know when it was or where and hadn’t heard anything more about it, so naturally assumed that it must have been over-subscribed and had hoped that they would run another one soon as she wanted to go on it and that she would be included in it then. Funnily enough, it was the same advisor who hadn’t bothered doing the better off calculation either. Seems to me that things might be better if JSP staff actually did their jobs properly and helped people who want to work, like Japinky.
I witnessed an adviser at the JObcentre tell a new claimant that signing up to UNiversal Jobmatch was “compulsory” today. It is not compulsory. I asked my adviser if it was mandatory and he said no but “we expect you to sign up for it”. BIg difference. I found it hard to resist his pressure but I will resist as long as it is not mandatory as you can still search for jobs in the usual way. Let them try to make it mandatory and see how easy it is to get it through parliament I say.
And so the Lie continues…..i sat and watched them doing the same thing.
Another thing, if you feel they are trying to brow beat you, ask them if they are trying to Bully and intimidate you into giving up your Data protection rights with the threats of sanctions…and if so, take out your phone and ask them if you should phone the police the now or should you wait till later…it’s called bullying and threatening behaviour, do it on facebook and you’ll get a knock on the door..
The JCP KNOW they don’t have a legal leg to stand on so they are just falling back on the “it’s mandatory” line. “Says who?” “We do, it is mandatory that you sign up to Universal Jobmatch”. “So, I don’t have any choice then?” “‘Fraid not, it is mandatory”. “What if I don’t sign?” “As I said it is “mandatory”, in that case you will be referred to a “Decision Maker” and all your benefits will be stopped for up to three years”. “What about the Data Protection Act?” “Never heard of it, listen there are other people waiting to sign-on, are you going to sign up or will I refer to to a Decision Maker for your benefit to be sanctioned?” “Hmmm, OK then, where do I sign?” “Thank you, I am sure you will find Universal Jobmatch a great help in finding a job, see you in a fortnight, bye!” *door slams*
It is not mandatory and if anyone has told you it is they are wrong/lying.
Steve, you are absolutely right saying she is a public servant, I was fuming with her at the time, her attitude stunk. To be fair, she was a one off, I’ve found most of the Jobseeker advisors at JobcentrePlus to be quite nice people who are there just doing the best they can. I am due to sign on tomorrow, and if asked to sign up to this Jobmatch scheme, I will politely ask them wether it is mantatory, if they say yes, I will tell them I need time to go home and think about it, and that I don’t want to be pressured into signing anything there and then. ( then again, will it be us refusnicks who will get singled out as potential trouble-makers, and earmarked for closer jobsearch inspection??). I’ve worked my guts off doing hard manual labour for over 30 years, paying into the system, now it’s come down to worrying about wether i will get a measly £71 to survive on every week. I feel like Ray Mears on a survival course.!
I have 27 years working under my belt, a few months ago the advisor i got was being a bit sticky with me,…ie, she oncreased my jobsearch agreemt to ten things per week, i challenged her on this, she didn’t like it…i pointed out that since i started with routes to work JCP do nothing for me but they expect me to do this and that for them…We pay pay your money, she said….I nearlt blew a fucking fuse…
i pointed out that i had been paying Tax and NI for 27 years, so i think i’ve earned the right to claim benefits and also pointed out that as i have worked in the private sector i didn’t rely on the publics money in those 27 years for my wages…unlike her…..she wasn’t a happy Bunny….Who’s the Scrounger….?????
Can’t believe nothing was said to me about this again when i signed on this afternoon. What’s going on at all? I’m starting to feel left out! I’m certainly not going to be the first one to mention it tho, i’ll bide my time lol
Everything is being run on the rear factor.
You have the jobseeker terrified of going to sign on incase he says the wrong thing and he gets his benefit stopped.
Then you have the Advisers afraid of not ticking the boxes and upsetting her boss and possibly losing her job.
Its a ticking time bomb.
Thats “FEAR” factor. lol
Mind you everybody IS shitting themselves.
You were right the first time….Rear factor…;-)
The advisors are supposed to be highly trained individual…”supposed to be”…Unfortunately some are Just Jobsworths with about as much compassion for their fellow man as Pol Pot….How can they sleep at night.
Clearly intelligent OP – ever thought of getting a job instead of sponging off the state and writing about it? You obviously know the system and are happy to play it for all it’s worth. Shame, you could probably have achieved something with your life if only you could be arsed to get out of your PJs of a morning.
I hope you have your flame retardant coat on. As you are going to feel quite alot of angry comments…………………
Then it’s fortunate that in my busy and fulfilling work/home life I won’t be able to find time to give a toss :o)
hopefully you will never find yourself unemployed
Good, well fuck off then…Nazi Lover….
I’ve probably paid twice as much tax and NI than you could ever dream of, like a lot of us here,
But you see fit to call out the OP as a scrounger without knowing one iota about him or his background…….. Typical Sheeeeeple,
cant think for themselves, believe what they see and read in the media…
0.7% of benefit money is deemed to be fraudulently stolen each year…8% of Insurance claims are deemed to be fraudulently stolen each year….Companies like vodaphone, Amazon, Google and Topshop etc have avoided paying this country Billions in Tax evasion over the years,….Now fuck off to a insurance fraud or Tax evasion forum if you care that much about the beloved system..Troll
Only minimum wagers talk like this.
Denis..Shame on YOU…Nazi sympathiser….
Now move along like the sheeeeple you are…..Troll,
Denise* 😛
Fuck Off! Cunt!
So what exactly makes you so special? What have you done in your life that makes you so high and mighty that you can make judgments about people you know nothing about?
People like you Denise are the real cause of what is wrong in this world. You are blind to the real facts of what is going on and you choose to ignore it. You make comments such as “ever thought of getting a job” without the slightest thought of how damned difficult it is to even get invited to an interview!
You assume that everyone who is unemployed is a scrounger without a single thought of why people are not able to get a job! You are typical of the ignorant morons who hounded me out of my last job and almost cost me my life! You have no real interest in the true causes of unemployment and I am damned certain that given the option of being able to help someone find a job would be beyond you as people like you are so bloody self centered!
I am glad that the OP is written by someone who knows the system, because I am stuck on it and I am being shafted by it at every turn!
There is a lot more to this world than what is written in right wing garbage rags like the Daily Mail, so take your damned head out of the trash media and take a look at the real world! Or are you too scared to do so as it will spoil your twisted view of reality and your obvious need to troll on websites where people who need help the most come to for advice!
“Ooooooh, Look at me I got em all wound up”
Jesus wept
Not got me would up man, these arses are easy meat…because they are the Sheeeeeeple…
Was anything about this mentioned on Question Time? I just missed it 😦
Had to sign on yesterday. Not a single thing was mentioned. I am on the Drop & Go system though. I did see some people leaving with green cards or slips
Did anyone watch question tiime what a load of rubbish, Issues relating to ids’s position as work and pensions secretary were reduced to discussing the benefit cap on the unemployed with large families living in expensive london boroughs ( which probably amounts to a handful but the greedy tories still want these large properties owned by tory voters. Charles kennedy who was supporting ids’s gerry mandering shouted this is the home of free speech.- not when issues surrounding ids are so controversial that they were given the last five minutes of the programme and nobody in the audience, especially the woman shouting out at the back was allowed to speak. Owen Jones of the independant newspaper was the only one on the panel that defended the unemployed and prisoners who are democratically alienated from the political process, thank god for this site.
Andrew Neils daily politics on BBC 2 was even worse when their bit part on Beveridges national insurance contributions were discussed .John pugh (Liberal) harked back to the deserving and undeserving poor and again misquoted the universiality aspect of it i.e. it was there for ALL in NEED were the words out of beveridges mouth, but he twisted it to mean what it is today citing that the rich would not have contributed if they did not get anything out of it, not true, after the war majority of the people were poor and were DEMANDING a welfare state to care for them in times of hardship, the modern day universiality of it is about greed not of the poor claiming from it but the rich. The upper/middle classes are freelance or self employed probably not even contributing to national insurance. Chris Skidmore conservative MP piped up with’ I think it is disgusting that millionaires should get winter fuel payments’. The lowest amount paid to the rich and nowhere near as costly as paying WEEKLY child benefit to them, which is still too high at 50,000k before it can even be considered for withdrawal. Lisa Nandy for Labour said the welfare state was devised with full employment in mind – no it was not, it was devised partly to cater for the unemployed because of boom and busts in a capitalist economy and labour could not eradicate that despite Gordon Browns rhetoric and neither can this government, but the biggest laugh came from Andrew Neil who said what is supposed to be a handup is now an indefinite handout lifestyle. Not a bit of criticism of why there is long term uemployment or as Johnny voids post quoted more is paid to keep one person the Queen than the long term unemployed and she is not facing any withdrawal for over occupancy. If you agree with the bias and unfairness of bbcs politics please show your disapproval by texting them or phoning them to show it.
Damn, i missed Question Time, .. I caught I’m a celebrity get me out of here on ITV1, they only went and voted out Limahl the 80’s frontman for Kajagoogoo, I was so disapointed ..I spent over 4 pound voting for him to stay last night, and now he’s been voted out, what is wrong with the British public, he was one of the best singers of his generation. And I didn’t think he warranted being chosen last night, he did his bit in camp, don’t forget that on his arrival, he had to spend an entire night locked in that jungle hut with bedbugs and creepy crawlies to get a reward for camp (tea and biscuits), ..but even that wasn’t enough to save him, The Great British public have really been shown up for what they really are, .. not only cowards, but musically ignorant, don’t forget he also sang the theme to that wonderful film “Never ending Story”. I am absolutely gutted he got voted out last night.
You would have been been better spunking your £4 on lottery tickets or the roulette wheel, at least you *might* have won something. Surely better than lining Ant and fucking Dec’s fat wallets.
Or even better put some food in your belly, or top up the gas n lecky.
well at least the public got it right when they voted out the testicle- eating gonad first.
When I first signed-on, I attended a Jobseekers session which explained the best means of finding vacancies. It was made quite clear that MOST vacancies were not advertised through JCP or the press, in fact much less than half of all vacancies
“In 2002, the Office of National Statistics (ONS) estimated that only 44 per cent of all job vacancies are advertised through Jobcentre Plus.”
“Among small businesses, which make up 84 per cent of employers in the UK, less than 20 per cent use the job centre to recruit.”
Most vacancies I apply for are NOT though JCP.
Are employers to be mandated to only advertise via JobMatch?
So, whose interests are being served if Jobseekers are mandated onto JobMatch?
As it stands, most JCP listed jobs are low or minimum wage, so if you find yourself unemployed you have to start at the bottom, a bit like a game of snakes and ladders.
The truth of the matter is that employers prefer to recruit from those that are currently employed.
The employment industry exists due to employers seeking not to associate with JCP.
Ian Duncan Smith has one goal.
He must fill the low end of the job market, without improving pay and conditions
Just came back from signing on in Swindon, .. I went in expecting to have a toe to toe argument with the guy on the desk, with me point blank refusing to sign any Jobmatch paper, and him demanding I sign it… things never turn out as you expect in life, .. I went in, handed over my fortnightly jobsearches sheet, and he thanked me, smiled, and gave me 2 new jobsearch sheets for the forthcoming 2 weeks, all very pleasant, and off i went. No mention of any Universal Jobmatch.
I think Swindon is traditionally a Labour town, the Jobcentre workers don’t want anything to do with Ian Duncan Smiths new Nazi regime. I’ve found most of the people who work in the Swindon branch are pretty decent people, I’ve only ever come across one nasty bitch, but that’s no different to anywhere you work.
ps.. I did notice the job point machines at Jobcentre+ now have scant vacancies on them, normally you can scroll through pages and pages, but today there were only 2 pages, I queried this with a member of staff, and he did say most of the jobs can now be found on the new Jobmatch website online, so it looks like most people are signing up to it. I shall give it a bit more time before i decide. I’ve always found Reed.co.uk are pretty good. I can imagine this is going to effect a lot of Job Agencies, with Monster getting the contract with UJ, they will obviously get the lions share of clients.
I wish I’d seen this before I signed up to it the other day, I’ve already turned down applying to a job they suggested because it would have involved two hours travel each way to get there and I don’t drive. Panicking slightly now.
Dont Panic, just un-check the box that allows JCP access to your account….you can withdraw your consent just as easy as you gave it…
Read this, if you have any worries…
http://consent.me.uk/workfareconsent/
Thank Christ, I just went to do that and I’d never ticked it in the first place. They must be able to see something though if they suggested the job to me in the first place, or is it just some automated jobmatch-bot?
Dont know how it works, as you say, if you have put your details in, then it’s probably just a Bot job matching you…if you dont apply for a job that’s matched to you and your advisor pulls you up about it without you telling them, then you will have proof they are spying on you without your consent….keep us up to date please…
If you “accidentally” tick the “consent” box, can you go back and untick it or does the option disappear?
JP…Havn’t got a clue as i have no plans on even looking at the site…well on this computer with my details anyway…..
No way I’m ticking it just to find out.
Never fear, if the job is more than 90 minutes away using public transport then nothing can be done.
UJ uses an automatic bot system to match your CV and profile to supposedly suitable vacancies, if you haven’t ticked the box to give the JCP access then they can’t suggest jobs or see what you have or haven’t applied for.
Sorry I haven’t been replying much, I will try to catch up on the comments I have read when I get a bit of time and answer as many questions as I can.
………………..
I went to the JC today to hand in my signing coupon. Nothing was mentioned at all. Maybe next time?
They can refine their supposed rules all they like, I’m not subscribing to this UJ. Even if they give me a piece of paper that they call a ‘direction’.
That is far too easy for them, it’s not compulsory, so you decline, then all of a sudden by virtue of an advisor getting flustered and giving you a piece of paper it’s compulsory? Jokers! Oops, did I say compulsory? I meant mandatory, of course. Lol.
Fuck ’em.
When I went to the jobcentre they mentioned about universal jobmatch again. They’ve got my email on their system from when I signed on last time. THe way I see it is, just because youve got an account dosn’t mean you’ve got to use it. I wont be giving them permission to see my account either.
Doesn’t seem to matter much anyway, I’ve just had a letter telling me that I won’t get any JSA because I didn’t provide proof that I’m not at university anymore which nobody asked me for and I would have been happy to provide if they had. It asks me to provide this by the 29th October 2012 and continue signing on as normal. Idiots.
Looks like you fell for the old “not being able to read their minds” trap.
Just be thankful you didn’t get a suspension. Retrospective.
I’m over being angry about it now, just amused that they obviously think I have a time machine. Trust me, if I had one of those I’d be in Ancient Greece right now.
Upload you personal information to Universal Jobmatch and you are only 10 minutes away from having a Wonga loan taken out in your name 🙂
There was an interesting report on Newsnight about Wonga loans and how they are making a killing off of University students who are only to happy to use their android mobiles to get instant cash, … yes, but how are you going to pay it back? It seems immoral to me.
Some thoughts. Anyone see any flaws in my reasoning? Any improvents?
Tell them you don’t wish to register and that you can apply for jobs without it. Use sites such as fish4jobs and Reed UK instead.
Tell the JC that you will not put your personal details on a site that could be hacked or that could NedNNededNedhave bogus employers on it. Remind them of the ineffective security measures of government organisations where people’s details have been stolen or carelessly left for anyone to see. Tell them you have the right under the Data Protection Act to safeguard your personal details and that putting them on that site would allow anyone with the right knowledge to easily gain access to it.
If they say fish4jobs could be hacked, tell them that it is your decision to use that and no one is forcing you. In fact, on other sites, you could use a false address and telephone number but use a throwaway email address. In the body of any job application or in a covering letter you could say the address and telephone are false but that you will supply the correct ones to genuine employers. And that you wish any initial contact to be made by email. You are doing this because you have been subjected to spam before and you are worried about corrupting your computer by clicking on some bogus job offer which contains a virus. You are also worried about the real risk of your details being used by criminals.
If, in the future, job seekers are threatened with sanctions if they don’t comply – and you can’t afford to have your money stopped – give the JC a letter in which you demand a written and signed (wet signature) paper document that acknowledges your resistance to registering and your insistence on your protection under the Data Protection Act (and, possibly, the European Convention on Human Rights). It must also state that you are being threatened with sanctions if you don’t register and must acknowledge that the person signing will be liable for any damages or compensation awarded to you in any legal action taken by you or on your behalf for the loss of your rights.
Add that you are not refusing, you will register if your conditions are met but that you are not registering willingly. You are only doing so, under protest, because you would be left destitute if you didn’t. The conditions of your requests/demands are fair and no one who is sure of the legality of forcing people to register should have any doubts about signing. If they have doubts, they are obviously unsure about the legality of using force.
If you are forced, by threat of sanctions, to use the site, just use it to search for jobs but don’t register. If you are forced to register, don’t give them permission to view your account. If you are forced to give them permission, resist as much as you can and demand written evidence of the legality of their demand.
When I signed on yesterday they gave me a piece of paper telling me how to register on the site and said the next time I sign I must bring an account number which I will get when I sign into the site.
When I was looking at the jobpoints yesterday I noticed that most of the jobs advertised didnt have the information on how to apply, whicgh they usually do. It looks like they are going to get rid of the jobpoints so that everyone has to use the internet to jobsearch.
Word is we are going to be out of a job soon… 😦
Word is we are going to be out of a job soon… 😦 rumour going round that we are all going to be melted down for scrap metal and plastic : -( maybe me luck and get put in a museum or some place. If anyone wants to re-home a Jobpoint let your jobcentre plus office know 🙂
300 comments and counting… 🙂
What a load of paranoid nonsense. If you lot put half the amount of effort into finding a job as you do working out ways to avoid it, you’d all have jobs and wouldn’t have to worry about universal jobmatch. Busy doing nothing.
There is no master password and no-one is looking 24/7. Its a hilarious read though.
The next time I see a vacancy for a cunt I’ll put your name into the hat.
You are talking shit treacle, how to you think the jobcentre are able to access your (password-protected) account (if you give them permission); because they are higher up the “user access” “food chain” that’s why, logged in as the jobcentre! And nobody said anybody was looking over anyone’s shoulder 24/7, what they were talking about was the possibility of sanction “doubts” being flagged by this system and the distinct and very real possibility of them being applied automatically without any human intervention. But, being an obvious troll, you already knew all that anyway.
who says we are avoiding gettiing jobs, plenty of other job boards to do searchs on.
Treacle…
If as you say, no-one is looking 24-7, then why the fuck does JCP State that “they will need my Email Address when i next sign to allow future access to my account”….question…allow WHO future access to my account???
if it’s only me, then why the fuck should i pass on my Email address to a third party……
Sorry if someone has already posted this, but it’s quite an eye opener . . .
Click to access universal-credit-chapter3.pdf
Its clear they want everybody to be on the emergency benefit (£80 odd a fortnight).
What we need is a suicide job seeker to kill one of the advisers and bring everything to a halt.
Even better if they did it when cunty dunkin smith was about 🙂
“Jobseeker Directions
Appropriateness of a Jobseeker Direction to the claimant
When considering whether issuing a Jobseeker Direction is reasonable, there are a number of factors to be taken into account.
Advisers must have a full understanding of the claimant’s circumstances;
be aware of what action the claimant has already undertaken;
know why the claimant does not want to do the particular activity;
When a Jobseeker Direction should not be used 9. A Jobseeker Direction should not be used:
as a means of filling programmes;
as a means of meeting targets”
If you are using other services that match the UJM signed in options and feel they’re more secure
http://www.channel4.com/news/hackers-use-government-jobs-site-to-steal-your-data
Surly the appropriateness of the UJM registration order in Jobseeker Direction can be called in to question as a means of filling programmes/targets
A jobcentre going up in a towering inferno and all the staff in side being blown to smithereens would certainly give Duncan Shite pause for thought.
i am seriously thinking of killing 1 of them,someones gotta make a stand,either that or strangle the last poster
After a quick read-through I am somehow reminded of ‘Oliver Twist’.
It might not be Orwell’s ‘1984’ that was IDS & fiends’ favourite bedtime read after all – they must have relished the stories of Charles Dickens along the way too (if not for the reasons people traditionally enjoy them). I wonder at what age IDS decided that going into politics would give him an opportunity to bring about a return to his favourite period in history – with a modern-day twist.
The chapters in this document are far more chilling and shocking than anything Dickens wrote. If copies of these ‘plans’ became more widely available (and were seen by many more people, not just by those who are looking for them, about to be directly affected) might there be more of an outcry at just how vicious/wrong what’s being carried out is? There are still very many right-thinking people out there who would be shocked at the realisation that this is what’s being enacted “in their name” if they knew the detail (?). There will be people who won’t be able to believe what they are reading. Might it be time for what’s in these papers to be more widespread – there would be nothing to lose in shouting from the rooftops the blatant disregard that is being shown for the lives of huge sections of society in order to save a few pence.
I know shirleynott, there is no conspiracy, the evil plans are all out there in black-and-white if anybody would care to read them. Or maybe some prefer to keep their head in the sand.
I have a question for you Spock. Cool choice of user name BTW. As you are no doubt aware, under both the Data Protection Act, and EU legislation concerning tracking cookies and their impact on personal privacy, PLUS the relevant section of the Human Rights Act, it is simply ILLEGAL to coerce, or attempt to coerce an individual to give up their BASIC HUMAN RIGHT to privacy. So can you please tell me WHY some Job seekers have been told that they HAVE to sign up for UJ under penalty of a sanction? I give advance warning, hear and now, of a perfect shitstorm coming your way of you and your colleagues try to get ‘heavy’ with people. people like me who understand just how illegal such actions would be are more than prepared to see you in court. You are not above the law. Though you may THINK that you are. So please pass on a piece of friendly advice to all of your colleagues in JCP. If you try to push THIS one, it will be a button that you will end up wishing that you had NEVER pushed. The unemployed are NOT all ganja smoking, Carling black label drinking, daytime TV watching layabouts. I certainly am not. I am an accomplished photographer, and an IT professional to boot. I do not smoke, rarely drink, and hardly ever watch TV. I also know my bloody rights, sir. And I WILL defend them.
Well said Purple Goon….It’s the Advisors that will end up in court and eventually on the dole Que with the rest of us…..They are so blinkered they cant see it’s their future incomes that will be effected…they have more to lose than us…..God help them…..They will need devine intervention because a lawyer will be my first port of call if they break the law Knowingly and willingly for their Masters in No 10…They are not above the law.
A jobcentre worker in Germany has already been shot dead in her office by a disgruntled claimant.
Nice one, Purple Goon. I would just like to add that if consent is forced by threat of loss of benefit the DWP would be in breach of the DPA. And it would be up to JSA claimant to report the matter to the Information Commissioners Office: http://www.ico.gov.uk/. The DWP would be looking at a hefty fine and even more bad publicity. It’s up you to enforce your rights! .
looks as though the work program system is not really working, new report out monday shows only 1 in 20 on the scheme are actually getting a job.
anyone on the work programme had the UJ come up in conversation with any of the WP staff?
Got my jobclub (a bit of a joke that one as all we do is use ancient pc’s and search job boards for an hour – which I could have been doing at home)!!
This government does not want the unemployed at home incase you are working in the black economy or causing a nuisance to the community due to to your boredom, so they think It is really to control you and stop you from congregating against them, unsupervised.
The “authorities” already detain the kids in those day-time prisons called schools.
Universal jobmatch, Universal credit, I’m sensing a pattern here.
I wonder what the next one will be?
… Universal Death Chamber
A train journey, then a nice shower afterwards.
Morning all.
Just to let you know i signed on this morning and they tried to coerce me into signing up for universal jobmatch and even sighted my jobseekers agreement because its part of that to use direct.gov site so many times a week, I pointed out its still possible to use it and apply without signing up and when i asked for proof in writing that it was mandatory for me they backed right off! How long before the job seekers agreement becomes a demand?
Dont fall for it people your rights are yours so look after them!
This inspired me to put togethor a pdf to printout and distribute at jobcentres and town centres, lets get this info out there to the man on the street!
http://www.filedropper.com/universaljobmatchisnotmandatory
We’ll get you scrounging bastards working even if it means shoving a broom in your hand and forcing you to clean the streets for a pittance.
I bet you will make us go up chimneys and go down the mines, oh wait a minute your idol thatcher closed down the coal mines, oh wait you say you will force us to work in the steel yards and ship factorys as they made britain great, oh yeah they are all shut down by your old regime.
Scratch your bald head, where could these plebs be forced to work???
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ive just read through the terms and conditions on the website for job match etc etc https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/Account/InfoTermsConditions.aspx , as per usual the claimants rights absolutely stink,like they have none and is totally geared to stop people claiming damages under data protection rules if you do sign up to this wonderful idea made in a bath tub .The ico should be made aware of the that site..They can lose our data but will try not to, if they do lose anything in the public domain whooooooooops we wont be held responsible,its a total bloody farce again!!
The T&C’s are awful – They cannot prevent anyone from outside the system getting access to your cv and cannot stop spam (although they say they will try to reduce it),but it is not their fault and any damages incurred is not there fault.
How the hell can anyone get away with putting a system online with T & C’s like that (unless they are hoping no really bothers reading the T & C ?)
got my WP jobclub today (woo hoo), I expect they will try and make us sign up for the UJ 😦
Will show them the non mandatory print out and also the t & c information over the cv and the spam email and see if they would sign up for it.
he would be oblivious to it.
if you are on the WP and get a job by yourself, wondering if the WP can still try to claim credit (and the money)?
Nothing in the rules books say you need to tell WP or JCP if you start work….just sign off….they dont need anymore info from you….
cool
interesting about cookies on the ico site :
http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints/cookies.aspx
FOI is basically saying we are screwed 😦
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/125511/response/311623/attach/html/2/FOI3137%20Response%2011.09.12.pdf.html
“Can Jobcentre staff contact any employer for feedback on any claimant job application or job
interview, for a job the customer chose to apply for or when the customer attends a Jobcentre
Jobseekers Allowance review appointment and gives details of a job application?” – it doesn’t answer this though! Can the jobcentre obtain a copy of an application form/CV from an employer to see if it matches their records?
And what is this: “However I can confirm that a person may withdraw their consent at any time, but need
to be aware that if they are withdrawing from a reasonable requirement there is a risk that they
may fail to meet the conditions for continued receipt of benefit.”
Talk about trying to box claimants into a corner. The DWP is pure evil!
They have got all corners covered – it is as if they were/are waiting for folks to kick up a stink and then hit them from all angles.
I give it 4 to 6 weeks until we will all have to consent (data protection act seems to be covered from the DWP angle in the FOI request).
Just had a wee snoop in the UJ site…(never logged in)…People, beware of the “To learn More about Cookies, Click Accept Cookies””……Click Fuck all…accept none of these Cookies, until you understand what those particular Cookies do….I have my suspicions….
This site is a Trap….
Reasons Why are you not applying for this Job???…
The Reasons in the drop down bar are waaaaay too vague and made to look like you are just failing to apply for work.
And why have they omitted a space for you to add your own reasons for not applying for a particular job???…this site is Custom designed to sanction…. SIgn Fuck all.
Look for a Job without signing in and look for the details about the job…if there is a phone number or email address use that to contact the employer Direct……Do Not Log in here…
Just Back from JCP, I was not signing on, i was there to ask some questions about UJ…
Question 1…
Me…What happens if a dont sign up to UJ..????
JCP staff member…It’s Mandatory and if you dont sign up could be sanctioned..
Me…In the drop down bar it shows a list of reason why you are not applying for this particular job..what happens if any of my reason for not applying are not in that list???
JCP Staff member…Shrugs his shoulders.. ;-/
Me…Ok, i have a piece of paper here from the DWP that states it’s not mandatory, but you are saying it is Mandatory…have you been instructed by someone higher up than you to state that this is mandatory when The DWP guidlines state that it is not…Have you received these instructions To spin this lie to the Claiments
JCP Staff member…when do you next sign on..
Me..Friday, but could you asnwer my question..
JCP staff member…you will need to ask your Advisor..
Me…Ok, maybe you could answer this question then….on Logging into this UJ site, it say’s “to learn more about Cookies in this site it ask’s me to accept those cookies..This as far as i’m concerned is a no no….I would like to know what those Cookies are and what they do before i accept them…wouldn’t you agree this is standard protocol to any site..
JCP Staff member..I Havn’t been on the site Myself so i cant comment on it…all i know is you need to hand over your Email Address when you next sign on so your advisor can see what searches you have been doing and it’s not us who will be doing any sanctioning it’s all computerised now..
Me…So it’s a snooping device then…
JCP Staff member…looks like it….
Me…Thank you,, Cheerio……
So whatever way you look at it, we are getting snooped on,
Say this site matches you up to 10 jobs and you may only be able to apply for two from the ten for various reason, but those reasons you have for not applying are not in the drop down bar, what are you supposed to do..Lie and answer with one of their catch 22 questions….sounds to me like the Computer will flag those other 8 jobs as a failed to apply and you will probably receive a letter in the post telling you yer fucked,….
“and it’s not us who will be doing any sanctioning it’s all computerised now..” … “decision makers” are going to find themselves out of a job soon… Universal Jobmatch will have everyone on sanctions by Christmas. All it would have taken is a couple of mouse-clicks to insert a “free text” job in the (auto-sanctioning) drop-down menu – wonder why they didn’t do that 🙂
“free text” box lol 🙂
It is to box you in so you can be sanctioned – that is the whole point of it, the “drop-down menu” does kind of give the game away. Expect it to be “bolted-down” in a lot of ways soon… without giving the DWP any ideas 🙂
2.1 voluntarily leaves employed earners employment
2.2 refuses or fails to apply for or accept if offered a situation in any employment which an Emp O [bot acting on behalf of an Emp O] has informed the claimant is vacant or about to become vacant
2.3 neglects to avail himself of a reasonable opportunity of employment
2.4 fails to participate in the MWA scheme
all attract the “higher level” of sanctions – 13 weeks, 26 weeks, 156 weeks (3 years!)
Dear Stevie777
CHANGES TO YOUR JOBSEEKERS ALLOWANCE
We cannot pay you Jobseekers Allowance from 1 December 2012 to 30 November 2015. This is because we recently told you that a decision would be made about a doubt:
On whether you failed to apply for a vacancy notified to you by an Employment Service Adviser. We have now decided that you failed to apply for this vacancy and that you did not have sufficiently good reason for doing so.
We cannot award National Insurance Credits for this period.
We cannot pay you Jobseekers Allowance from 1 December 2015.
We cannot pay you National Insurance Credits from 1 December 2015.
A Cunt
For MANAGER
No Doubt Thousands will be receiving this letter……oh well…I’m sure you’ll do around Three years for Stabbing your advisor ….it’s about the only way out to ensure you dont starve or freeze to death over the next three years…..I wonder what you would get for pummeling that fucker IDS.
But I only selected “I am not interested in this vacancy at this time” from the drop-down box on Universal Jobmatch 😦 Feels like I have been set-up ;-(
stevie 777
Job centre staff are trying to exonerate themselves from the sanctioning process by blaming the computer for sanctions issued. So they don’t find jobs, they no longer sanction, many appeals against sanctions never even get heard so just what do job centre staff do. The banks may as well pay the unemployed direct.
If it’s all going to be computerised, my guess is in the next year or so you will start to see JCP staff at this side of the desk..
I believe everyone on JSA will be sanctioned at some point…The system is geared up for to catch you out for the slightest mistake on your part, not to find you suitable employment or match you with any employer…..I’m still not signing up….I tried to log in using a false User id…still cant log in..it’s a fucking shambles…using the Job Points at the job center, they have hidden all the usual details that you used to use to contact the employer directly so you have to go through this UJ site…..why would they do this if it’s not about snooping???
just got back from WP – seems as though they have been forced to force us plebs to sign up for UJ 😦
tried to say it is not mandatory but was shut down and told to take that argument to the JCP.
They were also banging on about you will be monitored 7 days a week etc.
Not sure what they have been told exactly from the JCP but it does sound harsh.
So got my goverment id – and then tried to register on UJ – kept on getting unexpected errors notices when trying to log in.
I expect sanctions will be handed out within a month as it appears the JCP have got some orders from the ivory towers to ignore the not mandatory line 😦
Unless you document everything :
every time it failed to log you in – print out
every crap job it tried to match you with print out
print every single thing you think can help you.
Then take it to CAB if needed.
I think they know no one can afford a legal challenge to this system though:(
Print out everything???…I dont have a Printer and i sure as fuck dont have 20p a sheet of A4 at the library….My Library has two computers and you are only allowed on them for 20 minutes at a time if people are waiting….The Main Library 3 miles away has around twenty PC, but if you are not early you’ve no chance of getting on one….This is a Unemployment Blackspot….WTF
I’m also at routes to work who refuse me access to their computers…Double WTF
or using print screen and save jpgs of everything, put it on a memory stick and each time you go into the JCP ask to use there printer and print it all out – cannot see how they could refuse that either.
Guy Fawkes…you say…”many appeals against sanction never get heard”….So what happens to those Appeals then….are they just chucked in the bin..???
It is mass-sanctioning on the horizon and the frightened yellow-bellied jobcentre staff are doing their level best to distance themselves from the fallout by shifting the blame to some computer sat in a data centre in Utah, USA. Come on, JCP, take responsibility for YOUR actions, you cowards!
They would be better doing just that; it would cut out all the crap and save the hard-working taxpayer a fortune!
Stevie 777
Who knows what happened to appeals, I don’t nor ever would work in the job centre to find out what actually happened to them, I only know my appeals were never processed and I found through people who had worked in citizens advice bureaus I was not the only one.
what about proper action, everyone declares themselves depressed, unfit for work because of this new shanbolic system and being asked to look for jobs for over 30 hours a week, which is not healthy as any doctor will verify. real action needed people. words are cheap. actions however..
you will be sent to ATOS and then be declared fit to work. They have all angles covered.
Even your Doctor is in on it….they have been instructed to cut down on the sick lines…..Fact…
There is a letter somewhere on the web were someone asked for their medical records and a letter was in there from ATOS instructing the Doctor not to give this patient anymore lines as they have been found fit for work….
trust me, we are at war here..this Government are Killing people and have stacked the cards in their favour so they wont be held accountable for their actions… we must find a way of fighting back, be it legally or illegally….
We just cant sit back and let them do away with us….The whole thing reeks of Germany in the 30’s….
The Jews saw the signs, but sat back and allowed it to happen because they couldn’t believe someone could be so cruel…well we all know how that ended…
By 2020 at the latest the population will have been cleansed of the “useless eaters”, the “Welfare State” as we know it will be ancient history. Then we will have a change of government and we will “forget” about the atrocities committed in “national interest”, then “move on” with a population leaner, fitter and more productive or as Hitler said: “lean and slender, tough as steel and as swift as a greyhound”. It has all been planned out, Lib/Lab/Con/Crap are all in it together.
big brothers now watching
never thought id see the day in this country
utter shambles
I’ve noticed the Orange Job.gov webpage is back on today when I clicked on the Jobmatch website.
Whats going on here?
Need to think of a plan to get this whole UJ challenged properly, the FOI was not really any help as it shows the DWP have got everything covered to cover themselves.
WP seem to have been given the hardline from the JCP.
Hack Hack and Hack some more…..that’s my plan
If and when I do sign up for this UJ farce I can see myself getting sanctioned nearly straight away due to a job I was laid off from is now advertising again and the job match engine will match me with it due to it is the work I want to do. The employer will not want me to apply, yet if i refuse to apply possible sanction. So am stuck in a horrible catch 22 situation and not sure how it can be solved 😦
dzwasp,
Just apply for it anyway….
looks like we will all have to apply for whatever they tell us to apply for, this is where the 35 hours a week job search will come in…they will flood you with Vacancies and if you fail to apply then you will be sanctioned..it’s as simple as that…here’s a thought…when was the last time you ever seen a vacancy for a JCP advisor…???
I saw one for a WP person ( I applied for it as well, did not get it though), all target based stuff
anyone got any replys back to the letters handed into the JCP from the consentme site yet?
dzwasp,
Hi yes I have had a written reply but a) have trouble understanding it – because, guess what, the answers are very generalised and open to interpretation so not sure it’s any help, and c) it’s not going to be easy to paraphrase.
1st para says: “It’s not a mandatory condition of your benefit to register with UJ. A DWP Advisor may determine that a customers chances of finding work would be enhanced with the use of the service and if that customer is able to do so may direct them to register and use the service”
So is this just hedging their bets or this be used to justify ‘using force’. I’m still confused (Data Protection Act Section 8) – it just doesn’t make sense but this isn’t about calling a spade a spade is it …. ??
2nd para says “You are not required to give us details of your government gateway registered id” (I don’t have this as not been on WP so far but are they trying to say one thing to some of us & another thing to others – how can the rules be different depending on where you’re at in the system (they can, obviously).
3rd para seems to say that allowing DWP & JCP staff access to UJ account is optional (!) – I think we know it’s not that simple once they have directed anyone to register.
“Please provide copy of internal guidance”
“We believe that UJ will be great & helpful …etc. We want our customers to willingly participate …yada yada. IF THE DWP ADVISOR CONSIDERS IT REASONABLE THAT THE CUSTOMER USES THE SERVICE WE HAVE WAYS OF MAKING YOU DO THIS” (sorry, I digressed a bit there) it says “they may direct them to register. Failure to carry out this direction within the specified timescale may etc.”.
Then one full page detailing all the advantages under the headings (Free/easy/Convenient/Supportive(!). This woman thinks I am stupid. Then a further attempt at ‘selling it” by saying …. we can have “direct access to your job search which means the information you need to bring to the JC when signing is minimised as it can all be stored on UJ.”
(it’s not that heavy to carry about with me).
Answered the “Will claims be affected by the service”
“No, this is not connected to any claims” – but this contradicts what’s just been said (above). Sorry this is so long.
There is a page replying to the question that asks for info. from an informed consent viewpoint which I think is saying everything we already know (only in their language) and includes “You don’t need to give us your log on details we can locate you using your surname, your email address or your universal jobmatch id. Only nominated DWP staff who have a legitimate business need to view your account will be given permission to access it” (that’s very reassuring then).
They have told me I don’t need to use it (twice verbally) already but then the letter goes on to say: “If there is an option to apply direct and you prefer to do that then that is your choice HOWEVER if the only option is to apply via UJ and you have access to do so Y don’t do it you may be referred to a decision maker to assess whether a sanction is appropriate” etc.
Reading between the lines (it’s taken me a while to as couldn’t bear to read again after first reading it) – they seem to be saying: ‘Get round it now for as long as you can if you are able to and good luck but you know & we know that really we will have to force you onto here sooner or later, so whatever is in this letter can be re-stated using slightly different words whenever we decide to do that & there will be sanctions down the line – don’t think you’re any different than anyone else just because we have sent you a 3-page (personalised) letter.
Also sent me a (free) new copy of my JS agreement with sections on front highlighted re: “I may lose my JSA if …” (because I’d asked about sanctions in earlier phone call).
Ps. Q9: “The work programme will be able to access UJ in the same way that you will as a customer. DWP staff access UJ differently thereore WP providers will not have access to your UJ account.” (??)
PPs. Letter wasn’t signed I have wondered whether this was deliberate or an oversight and whether the letter is worth the paper it’s written on if it’s unsigned??
phew that is confusing, it seems to chase it’s own tail. But you are right whatever way you look at it we will have to register on it (if anyone can get it working that is).
it really just says “we won’t give you a straight answer to any of your questions because we retain the right to look at every instance and each person individually & in that way use one of our many ‘get out clauses’ against you when the chance arises. It looks as if the adviser hasn’t written most of letter in their own words but cut & pasted most of the answers (they’re in different font/italics with wording clearly taken from internal documents). So it’s not that surprising the answers are so contradictory and vague I suppose – even including using the ‘we can require it in certain circumstances’ line in the same sentence as saying ‘but it’s not mandatory’. There you go.
Lot of self employed jobs on the UJ – catalogue distribution mainly.
WIll be pissed off if they try and jobmatch with self employed jobs
if it appears on your jobmatch, supposing it’s for a Stripper on adult TV..ye better apply for it or ye’ll be selling yer arse for a Hob Nob.
half the time the self employed jobs do not have any telephone numbers or anyway of applying for the job.
dzwasp..
even on the UJ site???
yeah
Do you think some of these jobs are fictitious and have just been added by DWP to catch us out and make it look like the site is a success….I do
so WP is a 5 year plan
they have brought in a 3 year sanction
Conspiracy Alert – in 5 years time they will say WP has been a total success as the long term unemployed are signed off the system, Please vote for us as we are great at solving the welfare issue.
I t went onto the universal job match website but I couldn’t register.
Read this….it’s fucking scary…
I saw a adviser on the 22-11-2012 they said do i know about the uj. I said i have heard of it, they said that i will have to sign up for uj. I told them that it is to do with monster and that they have been hacked into before and that i dont want my personel information stolen.Also you can get viruses and that. They couldnt understand still why i wouldnt register. I asked them what would happen if i didnt register.They said that they could get a jobseekers direction for me to sign. So i said to them that are blackmailing us into signing when it is against the law under the data protection act.She plainly denyed that we was being blackmailed. She said that i should strongly think about registering and i said i would think about it.I have no intention of signing up for this shit.Just before i finshed with the advisor i said to her that when is it going to be conpulsery to sign up to it.All she said was that i will let you know.Then that was the end of the advisor appointment. Can someone please tell me something. A few days ago i went onto uj i didnt sign up to it but stupid me i clicked on accept cookies i did browse jobs.but after i finished i went into control panel and internet options and deleted my cookies and internet history.I was just wondering even though i have deleted my cookies and that can jcp still look up what i am doing on this site and other sites Any help on this i would be very gratfull.THANKS
You’re ok but if you did the same on a regular basis it would start to record you – see link just above your post – the bit about cookies.
Can you believe that mindless morons such as TOUGH AS STEELstill exist?
I think Tough as Steel is condemning it, not supporting it.
If you are on the system and you are matched to a job that you are not qualified for – just apply for it. Even if it requires a fluent speaker of Swahili and you only speak English, even if it stipulates that you must be a chartered accountant and you can’t even do simple book keeping. Just apply for it and put a note on the application form that you know you are not qualified for the job but you are just following orders to avoid being sanctioned. Employers will soon get sick of being inundated with hundreds of unsuitable applications.
Good Call…..we have a plan ladies and gentlemen..
then they will hit you with applying for unsuitable jobs (think there is a sanction for this as well, it was in one of the long sanction pdf files), so you cannot win at all.
What happened to the person who got threatened with sanction for applying for too many jobs I wonder?
He Maybe got a job…..
In that case, you’ll have to request written confirmation that you needn’t apply for jobs you aren’t qualified for or that you will not be accused of applying for such jobs if you can’t avoid doing so in order to avoid sanctions.
Job seekers need some document to get them (the job centre) to sign to cover this possibility. It will have to say that the drop down menu that appears if you don’t apply for a job can only be intepreted as a refusal to apply and that it will give an automatic sanction. I haven’t seen this so I might be wrong in what is on the menu.
On Universal Jobmatch there is an option to request (be mandated to) “feedback” from an employer (just another means of “boxing-in”) jobseekers. The statuses are “Recieved: Awaiting Feedback” > “Viewed: Awaiting Feed” > “Viewed: [feedback]” One of the employer feedback options which like the jobseeker ones are probably pre-selected is “You do not have the skills for this job.” Wonder what the other employer options are “Deliberately spoiled application”?
Signed on today, not with my usual adviser, but with some middle frump jobsworth. It wasn’t long before I sat down she asked me “Have you heard about the new Universal Jobsearch?”, “Yes”, I laughed. “Have you tried to sign up?”, “I did try but the site was down..”, (I lied) “I won’t be signing up There are a lot issues with the site security, and the passing on private data to 3rd party companies, even countries outside the EU; the function of UJ is a cost-cutting exercise to sanction as many claimants as possible. I read the T & C stating your data won’t be passed onto 3rd parties, but we won’t be held accountable if it is — “Your information won’t be used that way, it won’t be such for sanctioning but for advisors but a more effective and helpful way look onscreen at your job search and to help you — when we look on screen at your jobsearch activity…” she said pointing to the screen, “If I give you permission” I interrupted. “If you give permission…” she echoed. “Which I won’t! and it’s interesting, because you guys are acting as Judas Goats, your jobs are going to be cut down the line, too”, “Yeah! we know that” she said quite brutally, “You see they often use empty catchwords like “security”, “effective”, “fraud-safe”, to push….” “I DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT!” she said in a loud voice, bulging eyes. “What I’m trying to say is they are lying to you, too”. “I DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT!!” she shouted louder still, drawing attention. “Most people choose to sleep it off, that’s fine…” I muttered.
She looks at my account.
“You’re a public servant” I said a few minutes later “you’re supposed to answer my questions”, “NOT WHEN IT’S CONCERNING MY JOB I’M NOT!”, “You’re being needlessly rude, this an issue that affects both of us”, “I’m not the one being rude. YOU ARE!” (because I brought to light what is apparent – seems if it doesn’t sit well with an adviser they have the right to silence you by calling you *rude*) “You’re a public servant”, I repeated. “You can speak to your advisor about it next time you come in–“, “Is it mandatory, that’s all I want to know at the moment-“, “speak to your adviser”. Signed me on and brushed me out.
Very unpleasant conversation, with a very unpleasant stool-pigeon.
Oh, I forgot. She said even if I don’t give her permission, I *still* have to sign up for UJ, and print off the jobs applied for as evidence. And we know people on JSA don’t have printers, or convenient access to libraries – so another black ball there.
Ned
If tough as steel is condemning it he is going about it in a funny way by quoting what hitler wanted for society – who cares what an insane dead German leader wanted from society, if he supports opposition perhaps he could write something more positive.
Here….how come Civil servant Jobs are not advertised on UJ….Here’s a link if anyone is interested….Is UJ just a Job site for Dicks…
https://jobs.civilservice.gov.uk/company/nghr/jobs.cgi
They should be put onto the direct gov site.
There was a channel 4 program on a while back exposing this scandal – it then was never repeated again.
Stevie777
The government and it’s workforce think all the unemployed and sick are dicks.
wondering what happens if you just fill in the basic profile and not upload a cv and then use the notes system to record all jobs you are looking for and applying for using other job boards?
because really you are not breaking any agreements as you are logged in and using the system.
There isn’t any “notes” system to record what you applied for elsewhere, so the jobcentre are just lying. The only “notes” are for applications made thorough UJ
how does the jobmatch engine work (or is percieved to work)?
are there hidden skills tags used by employers when they sign up for UH?
Shirleynott 28th November 12.10pm
The 1st para says that they will direct someone who is not searching for enough jobs and if they have access to the internet.
Make sure you search for enough jobs – every one advertised that you could possibly do. And, if you don’t have easy access to the internet, mention this.
Q9 seems to be saying that the WP people will be able to search for jobs on UJ but not see what you have searched for. They will be able to find jobs for you and notify you of those jobs.
But the scoundrals may have built the site so that any of these people can trace what you do.
———————
I’ve been practising turning off ‘cookies’ but when I turn off the facility to deny all of them I can’t get on the internet. When I turn it down one notch I can’t get on to yahoo emails.
That should have read: When I turn ON the facility to deny all of them I can’t get on the internet.
Thanks. I found this reply to someone else’s FOI request asking:
“If a person claiming job seekers Allowance refuses to give dwp permission to access their universal job match account will they be sanctioned? Even though they have set up and are using the universal job match account What law gives dwp the right to force a person to sign a form (permission to access their universal job match account) under threat of a sanction.”
“It is not mandatory for a Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) claimant to give DWP access to their Universal Jobmatch account. Access is only granted voluntarily by the JSA claimant once they tick a box in their Universal Jobmatch profile. Allowing DWP access to their Universal Jobmatch account means that JSA claimants can be more easily supported by their personal adviser with extra help to improve their chances of being matched to a job e.g. by identifying any skills gaps and/or training needs; and discussing how their CV can be refined.”
No mention of “but we would then start to direct you …” in the reply there.
I think they won’t take long to before faced with situation of being handaed a printed out job ‘recommendation’ from the dreaded – one that the employer has specified has to be applied for via UJ only (if only because adviser is having a bad day, or needs to step-up their ‘encouraging and promoting’). It could then become a catch-22 – only way to apply for that job is in that way – refusing gives a green light for financial problems. They usually hand over a job or 2 to apply for now – so this will be the same but they’ll be choosing from UJ site ….
(I’ve just read internal guidance to advisers on how to promote/encourage’ use of UJ and on how they can access jobseekers’ accounts – at least some can depending on their role & if permission has been given – & it doesn’t make for happy reading. I’m not wanting this to happen (!?) & am going to follow your advice as far as possible but job searching time is seriously being eaten away by other preoccupations. If I could explain this to JCP it would be great but somehow I don’t think we speak the same language on this …
Not even speaking my own language these days – should say “from the dreaded site” I think ..
400 comments and counting … 🙂
Ok, I’m due to sign on tomorrow and i’ll be sticking to my guns as far as Not signing up to UJ…Anyone want a bet with me that i come back sanctioned…..Anyone.
hopefully you will not (all depends how hardcore they have got in pushing it)
hope things go all ok today
Couple of hours and it’s Bye Bye Benefits……watch this space. 😉
The last time i was in was the first time i had dealt with this particular Jobsworth…she doubled my jobs search agreement…i asked her why, she pointed to my JS agreement and said it say’s in there that she can..(a Lie) …she also said ” it’s us that pay your money” to a question i had, I pointed out that i have worked and paid NI and Tax for 27 years so i think i have earned the right to claim benefits, i also pointed out the every penny she earns is from the Tax payer…she didn’t like this…I dont think she loves me anymore :-(….so i know what i’m up against…
Ask to speak to another adviser as she was hostile towards you, also say about the JSAG issue.
I know JCP are going to start JSAG changing very soon.
They have today tried to double the number of times they want me to go & see helpful adviser, from twice a week to weekly. Originally it was going to be “between twice a month or perhaps (sometimes) less often than that – depending”. It could be I’ve antagonised them after being “the only person” (on that particular caseload) “who’s raised concerns about UJ” and/OR (as alleged) – they have been asked to say this to ‘everyone’ (on this adviser’s caseload) “unless they’re already being called in more than once a week”. They would pay the fares (on alternate weeks). I asked about the missing time (from jobsearch/life) and just got “well, this doesn’t take very long”. Asked was it set in stone – answer came there none, so asked to talk to adviser’s manager – who was ‘away’. Then asked to talk to stand-in manager & after a long discussion between adviser & that person it was offered that the bi-weekly contact could be via a phone (fortnightly) instead, at a set time, but missing the call would count as ‘non-attendance’. And will they record it? – Answers on a postcard please.
But it wasn’t set in stone – they just make it up as they go along – tried to explain that half-a-day twice a fortnight is a lot of my time needed for other things but got nowhere. Tried to ask for rationale behind ‘seeing weekly’ instead of every few weeks to have a similar ‘chat’ to the week before but just got the “we are just trying to help you” version of events.
Was also asked today (for first time) – you haven’t put anything down here about weekends – did you jobsearch then? – This is a new one. Not even going to try to explain here how that bit of the discussion went ….
Sorry! should say doubled “from twice a fortnight” (it’s been another long day) …
or even ‘once a fortnight’!!
did they sanction you?
I went down there ready for war Armed to the teeth with my voice recorder and much paperwork on the new UJ…..and guess what…..
she just asked if i had sign up yet…i said, No, she said, well you need to sign up for the next time, i said really, she said yes….and that was it…..
no doubt they will keep up this charade….I’ll be more than ready for them, but i know they will still sanction me….
I will win in the end, but they will still try and make my life as difficult as possible in the short term….
As long as i show her the correct legal paperwork that say’s i’m not obliged to sign up and cant be made to regardless of threats then it’s up to them if they want to practice maladministration…I’ll have it all on Tape.
It will be lawyer time and someone is going to have a bad year…..
glad you did not get sanctioned, try not to just before christmas.
got to sign on tuesday, I could do without UJ hassle at this time.
Is anybody on the “drop and go” system being forced to sign up for this shit? Or is it just people who have to sit down & forced to speak to someone at a desk?
Those on the drop and go system will know what I mean
if you mean where you give in your jobsearch for the 2 weeks, someone glances over it and gives you another sheet to fill in for the next 2 weeks, this did mention it last time, I said I was having problems with the site (which I was – timeouts etc), still getting problems with the site giving me unexpected errors etc.
was there any legal challenge to this system? – seems as though most things this government tries to put through gets a legal challenge (either by the EU or other bodies).
I think in order to get things helping us,we need to get some experts have a look at the system e.g :
Independent IT security expert
Independent Data Protection & Privacy expert
Independent Human Rights expert
The government know they are sitting quite smug and tight on this because they know that :
a) the unemployed do not have any money to do this
b) if somehow the unemployed managed to get this in the works the right wing media shit storm against the poor and unemployed would be huge – headlines such as ‘work shy mount legal battle against system to get them a job’, ‘shysters somehow get money to get experts in to stop them getting jobs’ etc
something needs to be done to get the correct facts to us
Hey jobseekers its ME again, IDS go fk yourself.
Hearing that DWP advisor’s demanding none signers to UJM print out all jobs applied for, well you can save your paper and toner by doing screen captures and taking those JPG’s along on a usb pen. Neat eh and not your problem if they cant use the pen due to there own ICT security policys, one rule for them etc…. Haven’t tried this yet but now collecting screen dumps of all jobs applied “just in case”. I still aint signing my rights away especially when the UJM is hosted by monster hacked at least twice in recent years and hosted in a foreign country (The U.S). Way to risky to be giving this system my personal information.
And whilst I was languishing in bed this morning, as I do most mornings now im a f/t jobseeker I started thinking about turning the tables on the DWP and IDS by starting a union of jobseekers, united we stand against the fascist state. We need a website up were we can log the details of all the DWP advisers demanding and directing us to surrender our rights so that we know who to summons to the European court of human rights. I advise all jobseekers protecting there rights get a written record of any direction in order to facilitate this project.
ME….
Let me know where and when…i’ll be jsgning up for that..
I made a fresh application on 28/11/12. “must register for Universal Jobmatch” was put on my jobsearch agrrement. When I pointed out that I did not wish to make a promise that I could not keep, explaining my concerns about the security etc. the young “work experience” clerk asked for advice from a manager who informed her that she was correct and she again asked me to sign. I informed her that I was not signing the agreement with that as a requirement. She then asked me to write on a piece of paper my reasons and it would be referred. The following day after searching for information I rang the local job centre and spoke to the manager that had confirmed i needed to register. After a prolonged and civil discussion he conceeded that it was not compulsory, and I then complained as to why my application was sent to referral, when the clerk and him had given me false information. He was most apologetic and was going to make enquiries and get back to me,. As of yet he hasn’t. On Saturday I had confirmation of a successful claim.
Keep up the fight,I probably will not post again, I am planning on living abroad. Best wishes to you all V for Vendetta
It’s not even mandatory to sign a jobseekers agreement….I know more than the JCP employees…why is that..????
I signed on on 29-11-2012 he said to me have i got my job log,i gave him it.He put some jobs that i had applyed to plus i had wrote to a few places, on to his system,all the time he was muttering to himself. After that he said have i heard of uj,i said yes.He said i have got to sign up for it.I told him that the site is to do with monster and it has been hacked into before and i dont want my personel data getting lost.I said to him that this is against the law under the data protection act.He started getting snotty and said to me,what do you know about the data protection act.To be honest i dont know much about it I googled data protection act up and it is put in that such of a way that you cant understand it. I couldn’t anyway but that does not mean that they arnt breaking the dpa. I told him again that it is breaking the dpa and also quoted the privacy rights about security the one about (We cannot guarantee that people or organisations that do not have permission will not be able to defeat those systems or use your personal information for improper purposes).He just didn’t want to know about it. Then that was that and left. But I wish I had told him something else.it was that when I last had my advisor interview they said I would get my travel expenses back. I got my travel expenses back but a few days later I got a letter from dwp just Stating that I would get my expenses back but down at the bottom of the letter they had put the name of my bank plus my account no on the letter. It is just unbelievable. I don’t know if the letter had got lost if anyone would be able to take some money out of my account because they hadn’t put my sort code down.
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Stevie 777
If you don’t sign their job seekers agreement then they will not let you sign or issue you with benefits, I know i’ve tried it.
surprised a national newspaper has not picked up anything about UJ?
Has anyone been sanctioned as of yet due to UJ?
What is the supposed correct process when they sanction you, do you get a job direction first? then a doubt on claim – I understand they can pause your benefit with this until you explain.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/42705
signed on today, was asked how am getting on with UJ, said it was an awful site etc, they gave me a ‘how to use UJ sheet’ and a form to fill in with my details for the next signing.
Next signing is just before xmas as well 😦
got given this today :
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/universal-jobmatch-guide.pdf
last section is what I am going to cling to
Universal Jobmatch Homepage
Register with Universal Jobmatch or login to your existing account for services including saved job searches, email alerts and keeping track of your past applications. You can still search and apply for jobs without an account.
“You can still search and apply for jobs without an account.”
DWP UJINS 11/12
You can carry out a general jobsearch using Universal Jobmatch without creating an account. This will only allow you to search for jobs. You will not be able to apply for a job without creating an account
“You will not be able to apply for a job without creating an account”
WTF somebody is telling lies
it is a confusing mess alright
I HAVE GOT TO SEE A ADVISER NEXT WEEK.I AM SCARED TO DEATH OF BEEING SANCTIONED.LAST TIME I SAW A ADVISER I SIGNED A AGREEMENT BUT I THOUGHT I HAD LOOKED AT IT PROPERLY BUT IT SAID I HAD TO LOOK 3 TIMES A WEEK ON UJ.BUT IT DIDNT SAY THAT I COULD WRIGHT OR PHONE OR ASK ANYWHERE.I HAVE BEEN ON UJ BUT I HAVE ONLY APPLYED TO 2 JOBS.SINCE I HAVE READ THE PRIVECY ANDTERMS AND CONDITIONS I HAVENT USED UJ BECAUSE IT HAS PUT ME OFF WITH THE SECURITY ISSUES,THERFORE I HAVE JUST BEEN WRITING TO PLACES AND ASKING IN PLACES. I SUPPOSE THIS WONT BE GOOD ENOTHE FOR JCP.COULD THEY SANCTION ME FOR THIS.I CAN JUST GET BY ON A COMPUTER BUT IF ANYONE COULD TELL ME WHICH SITES I CAN GO ON INSTEAD OF UJ BECAUSE I AM STRUGLING TO FIND ANYWHERE TO APPLY TO.I LIVE IN THE DONCASTER SOUTH YORKSHIRE AREA.ALSO I WILL ASK JCP BUT I WAS WONDERING IF FOR EXAMPLE I GOT A JOB THAT WAS FOR 2 DAYS A WEEK HOW MUCH WOULD I HAVE TO PAY FOR A NATIONAL INSURANCE STAMP. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
I did post a reply to this and not sure where it went
Do as it says on the agreement – look at the site 3 times a week, do a job search without logging in as normal and if any jobs come up that you can do or get to within a 90 minute radius print it out or take a screen grab.
test
https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/Account/InfoTermsConditions.aspx
Could some one have a look at the Terms and conditions Clause 8…8.1 and 8.2
“8. General
8.1 This service and the use of it are governed by ENGLISH Law. The ENGLISH Court system shall have exclusive authority over any disputes connected to or arising out of the use of this service.
8.2 If you use information or services provided on the site from outside the UK, you do so at your own risk and you are responsible for checking local laws and not doing anything to break them.
Now, I Live in Scotland and i’m under Scottish Law, so were do i stand????
Also, does Anyone have a list of The Cookies in the UJ site and maybe a bit of detail as to what they do…
I’m thinking of asking my local authority if it would be ok for me to use one of their computers in the library and would it be ok if i install these cookies.
obviously i wont let on what the site is, i’m kinda looking for a YES/NO answer from them… 😉
If you goto the UJ site, down the bottom it should have a link saying cookies and it lists what cookies are used.
quite a few are used and not 100% sure if the amount comply with legal requirements.
I dont plan on ever going into that site…can i go in using a library computer and access cookies within without logging in???
library computers are usually heavily locked down and have blocks all over the place.
you might need to try and speak to the library it team about it (if they are a good IT team they would be very unhappy about the cookies being used by UJ).
In fact that might work in your favour, as if you can get an official document from your library IT team showing objections to UJ being used on library computers I can not see what the JCP can do about it),.
Universal Jobmatch is the greatest thing since the invention of the wig!! I will have all you pot smoking, cap wearing, Jeremy Kyle watching, Carling Black Label drinking, scrounging lazy little fuckers signed up for UJ within the month!! Then all off benefits within the week after.Why else do you think I want you all off benefits, huh?
My upcoming hair transplant has to be paid for somehow as I can’t afford one on my pathetic 200k salary. Even my 80k per year expenses can’t cover the cost of repeated trips to my hair doctor. My gas & electric bills to heat up my beautiful mansion & 5 other town houses has to be paid for. I don’t want to freeze in this very bitter winter, even though the heating is always on. So taking all you scumbags off benefits is the only option. Have a heart & spare a thought for me for once.
Love,
Iain
The Public and Commercial Services Union latest info and advice to its members(job centre advisors) is that universal jobmatch is confirmed as
NON MANDATORY in any aspect of registration. It further goes on to say to its members that they are in the realms of a misdirection(of the jobseeker) if they bow to management pressure, and insinuate benefits would be affected.
It makes it absolutely clear that the DWP stance is (officially) that
registering and filling out a c.v. or job alerts is VOLUNTARY.
It asks its own members Not to put themselves at risk by misinforming the public.
google pcs and click on recent information.
The pcs union page was dated 3/12/12 btw.
I had a heated discussion with my advisor today, who didnt listen to or hadnt read
his own unions advice. Serves him write for making me come in every week even tho he just put me on mwa. .
Seems as though they like to make there own rules up 😦
I would ask to speak to a manager about it.
I am leaving any complaint action until I have a better case. The guy has already had me coming in 2 saturdays, / month, what with now pulling me in every week while on a mwa (after only 5 months of unemployment). I gave him a letter of rejection today that praised the quality of all attendee’s (6 interviewed from several 100) and he scoffed at it. Implied the quality bit was b/s.
(A personal attack of my suitability)
The union stance has changed dramatically since the realisation of lower workloads at the jc plus offices from UJ… its possible he will find himself frozen ashen faced by reality, sat on the other side of his desk in the near future.
.I cant think of any union in these times the public would have less support for. If I can get him up to discriminatory treatment (of a scruffy white guy) I will have him poached with garlic. If he makes a direction I register(against dwp guidelines) I think I can feed him lightly rocksalted to tramps for xmas dinner .
The JCP work on saturdays? – ours is only open mon-fri.
Sounds as though you would have a case of bullying (it sounds it from what you have written).
Signed-on again today, ready to stand my ground and counter any suggestion of registering on UJM.
But no mention of it what-so-ever.
I have a feeling that the dirty work of directing & sanctioning will be left to WP advisers, as a private company they can offer their staff all manner of bonuses if they get the numbers up.
In my local town unemployment is high, morrisons have reasenty built a distrubution centre, most of the work has gone to east europions, its the same all around the town, which has left a vast a gap in unemployment for local british citerzens. Most of the work is agency and dont garenty full time hours and dont pay properly. Im scared for mine and my childrens future. i have been looking for a full time job for awile with no success, and a part time job wont cover my outgoins. Im all ready worried about losing my home and now with the UJM what the hell is gion to happen?
http://www.channel4.com/news/hackers-use-government-jobs-site-to-steal-your-data
scary but also obvious it could be done (anyone with basic IT skills could have worked this out).
any hassle from JCP or WP staff just show them this link.
Best copy the link or archive it as it may mysteriously vanish, never to be seen again.
1). Set up an email address.
2). Create a BUSINESS account on UJ
3). Advertise a job on UJ
4). Reply to advertised job and ‘grant’ yourself an interview.
5). Print off associated paperwork & take to JC
6). Claim travelling expenses to said interview.
7). Enjoy your weekend at the seaside!!
8). Send email from employer to interviewee thanking attendance & ‘will let you know’
9). Repeat 3-8 until you get fed up of weekends away. . . . .
Repeat 3-8 until you get caught and end up in sing sing…..no thanks.
i think JCP will get suspicious after your 5th interview with the same email address goes through the system. 😦
you would have to create a different email and business account for every job for it to have half a chance….
And a new computer with a different IP address each time.
could be costly 😦
As travelling to internet cafes and librarys would be expensive.
Interesting article.
There’s many reasons that I originally didn’t register to Jobmatch. However, you not HAVE to register to apply for jobs that are advertised on Universal Jobmatch. There now appears to be a check box that asks; ” I authorise DWP to view my accounts, including job search activity, feedback and notes”. I’ve unchecked this box which is by default checked when a user enters the registration process.
I have been threatened with sanction of my JSA if I don’t register to Universal Jobmatch. Something with a challenged and very quickly got a response from. Although, we’ll see how this pans out at my next signing-on appointment. Bearing in mind that I now have in writing that if I don’t wish to register to Jobmatch, I don’t have to, although I have now registered but have refused to give DWP access to view my account. We’ll see how that goes.
Other reasons that Universal Jobmatch should be scrapped.
– I may choose to use another job search website to conduct my job search such as; Job Site, Retail Choice or Indeed, the latter takes results from all Job search websites, including Universal Jobmatch). If I apply for a job through Indeed, my job search activity would not be recorded by Universal Jobmatch and therefore Job Centre Plus would almost definitely sanction by benefit for failure to apply for x, y or z job – even though I did apply for x, y, z job through a different job search method.
– I may choose to conduct a job search in college, a library or other public computer.
– The log in process is pathetic. DWP expect you to remember or constantly carry with me a 12-digit government gateway user ID.
– JCP expect me to give them by 12-digit government gateway user ID so that they can view my job search activity and records. They already have a method of viewing my job search activity. I have a job log booklet for that which I fill in every time I conduct some sort of job search, interview etc.
All this narrows down to the fact that everyone is being tarred with the same brush. Again!
We’re all in it together, remember that when you’re voting in 2015!
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After taking internet advice i went to a meeting with my advisor,i told her i would not be signing up to anything without a jobseekers direction,after she spoke to her supervisor i was issued with this You must do everything you reasonably can to obtain work and to improve your chances of being employed.In order to help you with this,we require you to take the following action.You will create a profile and CV in Universal Jobmatch by18/12/12.You can do this using your computer but you will need to accept cookies.By law you can choose whether or not to accept these on your computer.You will find out more about cookies when u create your profile.If u decide not to accept them you must create a profile and CV by using the internet in the job centre and you contact me at the above address to arrange this.Your JSA/Nat Insurance credits could be stopped for a period of time if you do not comply with this direction,unless you can show that you had a good reason or that the request was unreasonable in your circumstances.If you cannot carry out this action,or need help in doing so please contact me on the telephone number at the top of this letter.I have arranged an interview for you to discuss how you got on with carrying out this direction. ANY FEEDBACK WELCOME
latest from Channel 4: http://www.channel4.com/news/universal-jobmatch-the-key-questions
they can use a jobseekers direction to force you to sign up, but cannot force you to tick the box which gives them access to your account,
maybe you should not have asked for the jobseekers direction straight off the bat.
just put a very basic profile up and a cv with just an email address (create a new one), and a disclaimer where your normal contact details would be saying address and telephone will be provided to only proper employers (or words to better effect but stating the same).
Do not put the tick you consent to allow the dwp to access your account.
Make a Print out of the profile (or screen grab) and the cv actually from the UJ system.
Then just do your normal jobsearching and get proof of it.
In fact as far as I can see they are just making you create the profile and cv not about logging in each time, so just do the normal anonymous UJ jobsearch (and if you find any bogus looking jobs on your jobsearch – get the details (screen grab if you cannot afford the printer ink etc).
Not sure if they can punish you further as you have followed what they have told you.
A brief reminder that all the caution in the world can’t escape one glaring reality: It doesn’t matter what you think the rules say. It doesn’t matter what the rules actually say. The only thing that matters is what the person sat across the desk from you thinks the rules say, and if they think the rules say they can direct you to sign up and grant them access, there’s little you can do to stop them doing it. Especially now with the BS rules that apparently now allow them to make a direction verbally (!).
An important point that many people may well miss: It doesn’t matter what you think the rules are. Hell, it doesn’t even matter what the rules actually are. All that matters is what the person on the other side of the desk thinks the rules are, and if they think the rules say they can issue a Direction to sign up and grant access, what choice do you have? You fail to comply, the DM decides that you were unreasonable, and suddenly you’re without money until you take it to the Tribunal, which could take months to resolve.
i got told to join a fortnight ago but said all the guidelines say i dont have to she was going to check and get back to me signed on today she said u joined uj a said no its unsecure Why is it cause you think we can hack into your emails ? no It’s cause anyone can say there an employer also monster has already been hacked into .Well we will have to do something else with you seen you not joining cause the job logs are getting done away with wiil be more thorough with you more so than if i joined uj mentioned 40 hrs jobsearch have recorded .The letter you link to a gave her she did copy it made no difference @livellysoul on twitter
40 hours job search ???
are they expecting you to do a 40 hours jobsearch as you did not register with UJ?
if that is the case they are making things up as they go along.
it also seems in your case they are ignoring any other jobsearch method apart from UJ.
If that is going to happen in JCP centres, I can see employers getting really pissed off and other job agencys getting pissed off (no difference to DWP, but a huge difference in someone wanting to find a job).
a have it on tape but for some reason its in act file wish you could hear it. it says on tape by the woman at sign desk that they will have to sort something out for me since a wont join uj i said what is that she said she dont no yet. gave me another job log and dont sign on to 9th so but its on tape about for 40 hours i take it thats job searching
that is pure insanity – also when you are at a job for 40 hours you actually work 37.5 due to half hour lunch breaks.
That is also above the 35 hour a week thing they are thinking of putting in next year.
I would make a couple of backup copys of that tape.
Also did you advise you were recording the meeting?
If they try to push it I would ask to speak to the manager or someone that can deal with a complaint, bring in your evidence of your job searching and get them to explain what the hell they are on about threatening 40 hour a week jobsearch.
Should have asked if they would have made you do a 40 hour jobsearch on UJ if you registered and if they said no, then ask why are you going to make me do a 40 hour jobsearch if i do not sign up.
Unless you did and it would be interesting to hear what they said to that.
no i never told them a was recording recorded before a even went in so they never new . She has always been a bitch this woman i new she was going to ask me again so i did covert recording . i get the feeling join uj or else saying all jobsearch activity is going online no joblogs .i said even if a join a dont have to tick the box given you access its my private info
Anyone get the feeling that each job centre is working to there own rules about UJ?
it seems that not one of them are following a standard procedure.
Either the message from the ivory towers has turned into chinese whispers or someone has a wierd agenda.
Well just signed on, and was told i had to creat my ujm account, and with that i produced the PCS union sheet saying non madatory, and with that he said thats ok and said i dont have to creat one now, booom! What a nice guy
just had a call from JCP saying I need to ring them as have not registered before sign on tommorow 😦
Ive registered but that is as far as i will go with it, fuck putting anything on run by the US, it put him back abit and forgot to give me my jobber logger sheets, so best of luck. power to the people, peace
government gateway setup – are you supposed to get a verification email ? or just the welcome to the government gateway email?
Make a email account, register your gate way acount make a note of it all and leave it at that, go armed to the teeth with the PCS shit or any relevant stuff
yep sorted that, also got the printout of the notification that I had signed up.
no verification email through yet though.
this will probably confused the person I am seeing today (will see how much of an IT expert they are…..).
Good luck, hope it works for u
will take the pcs printout in tommorow
It worked for me dude, but will see if i get paid on thurs tho? It put him back a bit and forgot to give me the job sheet. hes a sound bloke and known him for a wile, What a great dimocracy we have, power to the people lets bring them down to there nees, the silver lind pockets of the tories that is.
bastards have just rang 😦
got me off foot as well
seems as though I have to register or decision maker would be involved – cannot deal with that before xmas
so agreed to register – not allowing them access though (which they seemed fine about, which makes no sense why they are pushing for people to register).
did explain cannot do anything until i get the verification from government gateway though, so got a meeting after xmas
well tried to get out of registering with UJ, seems as though I have to see an IT expert tommorow to walk me through it all….. I have been working in and around IT for over 20 years!!!!!
Apparently the government gateway is mandatory to sign up for, UJ is not (at the moment).
So will get the government id setup and then will say will think about registering for UJ.
The time is coming when they will force me to register I can see it.
Click to access Freedom%20of%20Information%204536%20response.pdf
thanks for that, is there anything official online about this so I can print off (a bit wary printing off another persons letter/pdf)
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/id_theft_and_personal_security_a?unfold=1
It’s a official DWP response to a FOI request
This site should be your first line of defense no matter what the governmental department you are dealing with
cheers, have got a printout of it now.
my head is not in the right space for an argument about this tommorow though.
think I have 2 or 3 government id’s, but no verify registration emails come through.
why do they have to make things so difficult. I am fed up having to deal with the unfairness of the dwp/jcp and wp and now UJ 😦
All I want to do is work not deal with systems that do not work and people that have not been given the correct information.
Guys is it really that bad that you have to sign up for UJ?
Your personal advisers are just trying to help you which is why they want access to your stuff. They wouldn’t make you apply for anything which they deem inappropriate if you have a good understanding and professional relationship with them.
I don’t intend to offend.
Thank you 🙂
It’s funny that the middle classes sequel like pigs if this government snoop on them or expose them to fraudsters, but the working poor/unemployed are expected to bend down and grab their ankles.
FUCK THAT
Fucking right, if anon done his reseach and read behind the lines maybe he would understsnd whats happening. We are with in our legal rights to with hold any personal information and i will chose who i give it too, as being a victim of internt fraud in the pass i dont consent to uj handling my information
Actually you are wrong :
spoke to someone who had signed up and setup dwp job alerts based on the jobmatch system : he was sent 3 jobs :
one was in the shetlands (approx 800 miles away)
one was isle of wight (approx 100 miles away)
The other was was so far outside his skill set (top level project manager type of job).
It does not work correctly
Until it does I am not going to register on it (do not mind anonymous search etc)
just got back from signing one and trying to sort out the verification from the government gateway – it was very confusing and hectic.
a) the proxy servers broke
b) they suddenly started working
c) the government gateway site became blocked for 10 minutes
d) then had to wait around 10 to 15 minutes before it came backup
e) I did not have my id on me so will have to get the verification email resent from home.
Also noticed advisers running around like headless chickens trying to force or coerce folks to register for UJ.
I felt like doing a one man protest and showing the PCS printout to everyone in the office.
I did show the it person trying to sort out my government gateway problem the pcs printout though.
Now I have to pray I do not get any silly doubts or directions put on my file just before xmas.
will probably register on UJ after new year, setup nearly blank profile, got cv with only my email address on it and will not give consent for access.
Got the WP to deal with this afternoon as well, now they seem to be more rabid about UJ than the JCP at the moment so can see some fun times this afternoon 🙂
2 weeks ago I said to my adviser I’d be more than happy to use the ujm site, but without signup/login, she noted this in my LMS and I was never asked this week about ujm (even though she was trying promote sign-up to the previous client )
I will still produce my job search dairy every sign-in with checkable proof of job search
seems as though DWP have access even if you do not tick the consent box!!!!
I authorise DWP to view my job data information
DWP can use your basic job data information to search for jobs on your behalf and save them for you. These jobs will appear on your ‘Saved Jobs’ page, as well as in your ‘Job Results’. You can then view, apply or keep them saved for later. While this authorisation is not required, it is highly recommended to help make your job search more successful. Note that DWP will be able to see all your job searching activity, including your notes, feedback and saved searches
That’s concerning the 2 checkboxs
“this authorisation is not required”
Rest assured they have no legal right unless you authorise it
think it cut some of what i copied and pasted
cannot get back to it now
anyone know what happens when something is sent to a decision maker?
does a doubt get put on your claim and benefit stopped until sorted?
can you check after you have registered if the consent has been changed to allow access via dwp?
can never trust em
I feel so ashamed with myself that I caved in 😦
but best try and use it to my advantage.
first few jobs I looked at said to check another jobsearch board – which I did and the vacancy is no longer available!!!
Another couple I have looked at give ref numbers, tried searching for those ref numbers and also the heading of the job – vacancy does not exist or the vacancy is not in an area I can get to (even though on the UJ it says it was in the area that I could get to).
The activity log only accepts 250 characters per entry – which is rubbish (should be at least 500), the formatting is awful as well.
I have not uploaded a cv yet.
And as for adding a skill – just put 2 down showing what kind of job I am interested in.
think I am going to use other job boards/agencys and copy and paste details of jobs i have applied for using them into the activity log and not bother with the jobs actually on the UJ.
Surely they cannot do anything about that? As you are using the UJ portal and also searching for a job.
But knowing this system – who knows what evil plan they can pull out of the hat next?
i dont want to use uj i have told jcp that i dont want to use it.i told them why because i dont want to be a victim of fraud.they said i could use different sites even though i have still got on job centre agreement to look on uj 3 times a week.could someone please tell me if when i am loking on reed and i want to apply for a job, i was going to register with them so i could apply for a job.but i am woriried that if i register with reed and other job sites that jcp would give me a sanction because i register with them and not uj.
I am with reed and other job boards and agencys, what I do is do normal jobsearch on them and put down that is what I am doing on the UJ activity log.
still hate the UJ site as whoever designed the front end (and the back end) must have been laughing all the way to the bank.
Not sure if they can sanction you if you are actually proving you are looking for a job.
Shoddy design
Shoddy programming
Shoddy geography system
Also 90% of the jobs I have looked at get you to click on a link to another job board where you find the vacancy has expired….!!!!
Also no easy way of printing the activity log (I am copy and pasting into open office from now on)
They told me I have to register but I do not have to allow consent for dwp to check.
I should have gone to the decision maker and stuck my ground but bottled it because I need the money.
make sure you have ccleaner and do a clean up each time you use UJ
also paranoid here but when using UJ just do job searching (e.g no facebook tab etc open).
http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner/download
thanks for your reply.hope you and everyone else has a nice christmas. thanks
no problems, also try to use private browsing if using firefox.
and also try and install cookies manager + – useful addon for firefox that shows what cookies have been set on your computer.
happy christmas
got a personal adviser interview on the 27th december
bet they will change my JSAG
😦
IDS, When the Telegraph think your ujm is creepy Internet snooping you’ve got problems
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/willardfoxton2/100008569/internet-snooping-on-job-seekers-not-just-creepy-but-a-shocking-waste-of-money/
The tracking element of the programme will not be compulsory as monitoring people’s behaviour online without their consent would not be allowed under EU law.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9757895/Government-to-spy-on-computers-of-the-jobless.html
So UJ is now going to be made mandatory and seems as though you have to give consent for dwp access or you will get sanctioned!!!!
BASTARDS
Also they seem to be bringing in that debit card system ( how anyone will use public transport with it I do not know)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20799963
Duncan Smith said it would be mandatory for jobseeker’s allowance (JSA) claimants to use the site from early in the new year, but no JSA claimant would be required to allow their jobcentre adviser to see any of their activity on the site.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/dec/20/unemployed-forced-government-job-website?commentpage=2
what a bastard he is
Also you will have to provide a 35 hour jobsearch, that will be hard For me as i live 15 miles from my local town and right now using my mothers Internet because I can not afford it and dont have a computer who live two miles from my house, plus my local libary is open two days a week because of the cuts. I have applied For over 30 jobs in the last month and only heard bk from 2 if them this Ian Dunga biscuit is Fucking avin a laugh. Ill probaly get sancionado For this alone
think that is on the cards for june 2013.
not really sure how they are going to implement it though (as everyone should be clearing there cookies after each UJ session).
also if the monitoring of cookies goes against european law they will have no way of actually checking the time spent.
hopefully the system will break
if the jcp adviser cannot see any activity on the site and not compulsary to allow them access then why are we being forced to use UJ?
it makes no sense to me (this government makes no sense to me).
There would be plenty of job to get if they stop givin them to the over seas peps, I cant even get a job in my local darry. There motto is they only use local products but they dont say who packs them!! Same in all the factories near me which I keep applying for and get turned down. I was a youth worker but When first lot of cuts came in I lost my job 2 years ago. I see a lot kids who used to come to the youth centre in the job centre now with me fucked up. local jobs for local people I say. Soon romania and Bulgaria will be coming in the new year hmmmmm! Sorry off the subject but relavant I think
More and more I apply for jobs that ask for my age, gender and origin. All say that this information is not used against your application. I find it hard to believe.
The new Jobseeker’s Agreement forms
Click to access ES3JP%201112.pdf
Its not that people…get over it…stop complaining and just do what they tell you or you get no moneys 😛
the system is broken beyond belief, how it got past quality control I do not know.
looked at one job as it seemed i should be qualified to do it, showed it was in the area I am in, clicked on for more details and it is in london, nowhere near the 20 mile distance (more like 300 miles). This happened to about 5 more jobs I looked at.
Now either the employers are putting the wrong details in or the system is broken.
I’ve had this problem with UJ. I do a search for jobs within a 10 mile radius and jobs appear that are in areas that are miles further away than 10 miles. It appears that if you specify an area such as Liverpool, it then searches for jobs under the area North West – which is wrong, as I’m then not looking at the jobs that I originally searched for.
Maybe we should get screen grabs of everything that is wrong and send it to local/national newspapers, local MP, ed balls etc
People need to know what jobseekers have to put up with.
I can across this site a while ago but forgot to bookmark it, so have only just re-found it.
It seems that somebody started it a while ago but it looks slightly abandonded. Maybe we should add to it?
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Employers-or-just-plain-dummies/125672480915730?ref=hl
Wrong link, sorry
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Employers-or-just-plain-dummies/125672480915730?sk=photos_stream
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What makes me laugh about the new job seekers agreement form is that it says; “I will get an email address”. What if people don’t have access to the Internet? What if they don’t have a library within their local area. This Government makes no sense what-so-ever. They want people to find work, but if people don’t have the Internet at home and haven’t got a library nearby, how are they supposed to look for work. Maybe Government should think about not closing valuable sources such as libraries.
This is how out of touch the people in the ivory towers are, they think as it is the 21st century everyone should have an email address and internet access.
I have had more luck going around and contacting agencys in getting job interviews etc than this UJ and the WP I am on.
Yet I expect due to this and not using UJ enough I could get a bollocking, even though possible 2 jobs coming up.
Slightly off the subject of UJM. Something I have noticed is that the jobless figures don’t account for people who have had there benefit sanctioned. They keep telling us that so many thousands of people are back in work, or are they? We don’t get a true picture of the jobless figures, and Government and the press dress these figures up all the time.
same with volunteers – they are classed as full time working.
So what’s the deal then with UJM, im still not registerd for it but havent signed for 4 weeks due to the christmas period, getting dragged in today and at the least expecting a new jobseekers agreement so they can trap me into registering. Been an agreement I think it should be ok to cross out and replace all instances of the word agreement with demand??
any problems at the JCP over UJ for you this time?
I can confirm that signing up for UJM is not mandatory. Their is nothing under regulation 18 The Jobseeker’s Allowance Regulations 1996 that states compulsory enrollment
The job centre can give a direction to enroll on the UJM site, but you can tick a box and deny the job centre staff access to your data contained within the site.
DATA PROTECTION ACT COMES INTO PLAY
European directive on “tracking cookies”
also article 8 of the convention on human rights as well.
UK legislation has to be compatible with EU law
we all realise the contempt smith has for EU law, which i might add is also UK law
Statutory legislation is the law, the likes of smith or any job centre staff cant interpret it any different, even if they say different
So far as I am aware regulation 8 still says you need to take Two steps per week. The law does not define what these are, nor does it stipulate any time periods.
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OK LETS GET A FEW THINGS STRAIGHT FOR YOU WORKSHY TIN HAT WEARING CONSPIRACY THEORY BELIEVING SPONGERS.
1) It has always been 90 minutes commute for any job if you are on JSA
2) 90 Minutes commute is not uncommon for the majority of the WORKING TAXPAYERS.
3) If you are claiming JSA do not complain about how taxpayers money is spent unless you’re prepared to pay some.
4)All cookies on this website do is save your password to your HOME computer so you don’t have to repeatedly log in.
5) Perhaps if you people spent as much time looking for jobs as you do looking for ways to avoid working and being a contributing member of society instead of souless leaches sponging off hard working taxpayers this country wouldn’t be in the state it’s in.
but most importantly if you disagree so strongly with having to register with this jobsite to claim your free £70 per week jsa (plus housing+council tax + free prescriptions) there is something you can do about it. . . . . .
GET A JOB AND SIGN OFF
Problem solved.
1) true
2) true
3) people have been made redundant or have lost jobs and also have paid tax and national insurance.
4) wrong – check the actual cookie and privacy policy on the UJ website (very small lettering/links right at the bottom of the site).
5) we are looking for work – do you really think 2.5 million people are not looking for work? have you checked the number of applications per job ratio on job sites such as reed? usually between 35 and 100+ per job.
Have you actually checked the DWP figures? (on there website plain to see, that the actual figures show that only about 7% are commiting fraud).
Also what do you say to the 7 million WORKING folks who are going to be affected by these welfare cuts?
I think before spouting off your daily express/daily mail blind view get some figures and realise the right wing media lie.
I think even people who used to believe the lie are starting to wake up.
Dzwasp,
I’ll accept your amendment to numbers 3 but you are incorrect about 4
you are confusing TRACKING COOKIES with AUTHENTICATION COOKIES
Authentication cookies are the most common method used by web servers to know whether the user is logged in or not, and which account they are logged in under.
and as I WORK in this sector I think I know how many people are LOOKING for work and how many people are SPONGING a bit better than you do.
Answer me these,
1)IF you are looking for work and struggling to find it surely ANY help would be welcomed wouldn’t it?
2) IF you started work and your employer said it was part of your contract that you registered with the company website or you wouldn’t get paid would you complain?
3) IF you are ACTIVELY seeking employment and GENUINELY applying for jobs why is it a problem to have to prove it? you filled in your jobseeker books didn’t you? this is just an online version.
4) JSA stands for Job Seekers Agreement and is effectively a contract you sign to say that in return for the benefits you recieve you AGREE to:
A) apply for at least 3 jobs per week
B) agree to travel a maximum of 90 minutes for work
C) Attend work related training providers if required
D) SUPPLY EVIDENCE OF JOBSEARCH ACTIVITY TO YOUR JCP ADVISOR.
If you had an issue with that then why did you sign it?
5) Is it really that unreasonable for someone paying you £70 a week, subsidising your housing and medical costs AND paying your council tax to ask for something in return? after all AN EMPLOYER WOULDN’T PAY YOU FOR DOING NOTHING would they?
As I said earlier.
you don’t have to abide by ANYTHING the JCP/DWP ask you to do.
All you have to do is SIGN OFF and the problem goes away.
And finally.
Don’t presume that just because I disagree with your view that I am an Express/Mail reader, not only is that a very childish response but massively incorrect, I don’t read ANY newspapers as they tend to be full of the kind of bull that fuels these kind of debates.
After all I haven’t presumed that because you are out of work that you are a Sun reading member of the socialist workers party have I?
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I’m confused at what point you are trying to make???
I was replying back about the cookie issue to above poster, got crossed purposes i think.
The privacy problem comes with the UJ site (which I am mainly writing about)
This is wrong on so many levels (also it seems if you do not have a CV uploaded you can get a doubt raised and possible sanction) >
We try to limit access to our searchable CV database only to those employers who have been given permission, but cannot guarantee that people or organisations without permission will not gain access to this database.You may remove your CV from our searchable database at any time.
Do you vet every company that you apply to for a job?
Rather than trying to find problems, why don’t you look for solutions.
Do you use the same thought process to finding a job?
I also think people are concerned about this under the privacy section :
We try to limit access to our searchable CV database only to those employers who have been given permission, but cannot guarantee that people or organisations without permission will not gain access to this database.You may remove your CV from our searchable database at any time.
The people that have been made redundant and that are genuinly looking for work accept all the help they can. The people on these type of websites do everything they can to get out of work and refuse all help that is offered.
There is one easy was of preventing the DWP and JCP from giving (or forcing as you like to put it) help. Sign off. If you don’t take anything from them, then they can’t make you do anything!!
Problem is UJ and UC are not designed to help jobseekers find a job (even employers are pulling out of UJ due to the fact they are having to deal with unsuitable job applications from job seekers being forced to apply for any job or get a sanction).
Why force this system (which is buggy, has no employer vetting procedure in place- check youtube for someone who has set them self up as an employer without any checks at all). when there are plenty of better running jobsearch engines?
It is very easy to generalise and say anyone that posts on these sites are people who are trying no to work, this is not the case at all, I think we are angry at the unfairness of being forced to use a system that is not helping to find work.
Also when UC kicks in it will affect quite a few people actually working.
I really hope these people who call us all shirkers have great job security.
If you are that unhappy then sign off!!
Problem solved.
dzwasp
So are you saying that if I am looking for a cleaner to clean my house 16 hours a week I shouldn’t be allowed to advertise that role?
As for the system not helping you find work, are you for real?
A) It’s designed by monster (which is a job site)
B) it has jobs on it
C) you are looking for work.
As for it being unfair to be forced to use the system you don’t have to tolerate that at all!! SIGN OFF!!
As for job seekers being forced to apply for any job. QUITE RIGHT TOO.
If you are fit to work and want to work WHAT’S THE PROBLEM?
Ask yourself this.
How many jobs could you have applied for in the 2 hours you’ve spent telling me you want a job?
What is really unfair is that a large portion of people on benefits think that it’s ok to sit at home slagging off the system that’s PAYING FOR THEM TO SIT AT HOME!
I also noticed that you failed to answer any of the 5 questions I asked you in my previous post. why is that?
if you are a genuine person looking for a cleaner then no problem.
But there is no vetting procedure to make sure you are a genuine employer (which has the potential to lead to identity theft).
this video highlights the issue :
Monster has had major identity thefts that have been widely reported.
Not all jobs are genuine on monster (also various MLM schemes have been allowed onto the site which goes against the rules of the site in the terms and conditions, these have not been vetted).
I think the major issue is that people here are not happy being forced to use a system (and face sanctions) when the system is not secure or can lead to details from a cv being used in identity theft.
It is not about not looking for a job and being lazy, it is more about wanting to find a job without our details being seen by possible unscrupulous unknown persons posing as employers.
I will answer your previous questions :
1) compared to the old job search system and also other better job search sites this system does not help that much.
due to the fact :
a) the geography system is broken (using the 20 mile radius search it can and does lead to jobs much further than 20 miles) e.g was checking an IT job which I could do and said was in my area, checked on the description and said to click a link to another job board, the job was over 150 miles away.
2) all depends if the site is secure and also workers do have rights, if a website at a work place had similar privacy entries in it’s terms and conditions I would want to speak to the systems team before signing a contract like that.
3) fair enough statement, but some JCP staff are seeming to make up rules (chinese whispers??) causing worry in claimants.
4) again JCP staff are interpreting or threatening to not follow this rule (threats of making people apply for 40 jobs per week due to them not signing up for UJ etc).
5) fair enough, but example if i decide to use reed for job searching, I apply for jobs using reed and I get interviews from that, and if using UJ I do not find a job, then I should not be punished for not using UJ as I am finding and getting better results using reed – which at the end of the day is trying to find a job.
As for not replying back, been chasing job agencys over a couple of jobs I applied for at the start of the week.
You dont have to justify yourself to trolls mate, he sounds like he has a mega chip on his shoulder, probably read too much Daily Mail this morning and went into hate overload 🙂
well fed up with people thinking UJ is a great system and will get those benefit scroungers into work.
I should have said have you tried using UJ and see what happened.
The internet seems to be full of people who feel brave enough to have an opinion without knowing or finding out what they are talking about, as they say, ignorance reigns supreme. I had my first try of the universal job site last night after doing a bit of research. Im already not happy about the amount of cookies they feel are needed and I only found a few jobs (almost) in my geographical area but not in my job area. I usually use Gumtree but my job ‘coach’ totally misrepresented the jobmatch to me and steamrollered over the assurances I received from the providers lawyer that my data protection rights would be respected, but I cant afford to sue so I thought Id check it out so at least shes not sat over my shoulder noting down my code and making me tick boxes I dont want to tick(although Im not too pleased about the terms and conditions, which seem a bit excessive to me).
The site is awful as well as making it very obvious that its for snooping not really job seeking. There are sections not just for jobs you have saved but for jobs the job centre staff have saved for you, which I find ridiculous as she really doesnt know me and the first recommendation I ever got from them to apply for was bus driver and I dont even have a driving licence. Thats how good they are in person, imagine what a machine or someone who doesnt meet you is going to come up with.
I think from my own experience the old job boards with the bits of paper were the best system as you never knew what you would find. I work in the bar/entertainment/hospitality area so for me there really isnt such thing as a permanent job. Places have off seasons and lay everyone off, bars go out of business or new owners come in with their own people, work can be seasonal or contracts can be short. I found when I was younger that I was in work all the time but Ive really watched the job industry change over the years, Ive put up with a lot of these small minded people who make assumptions while Im not working and they really have no clue and think everyones life is just like theirs, if its not there must be something wrong with you. These small people are everywhere. You wont win an argument with them either, as the saying goes, Don’t argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
even the jcp staff admit the UJ system is rubbish.
only 7% out of 2.5 million are benefit cheats.
I am just using the activity log to record the jobs I am searching/applying for from other job boards.
Have also noticed he/she has not replied.
Dzwasp,
Apologies for delay in replying,
Regarding people being FORCED to use UJ , You are required to complete a JOBSEARCH document as part of your JSA, see point 5 below for more details.
I use UJ on a daily basis and while it does have teething problems (as with any new site) it seems to work fine.
I agree with the point you raise regarding the geography not working (it also doesn’t put them in date order which is annoying, but it’s early days)
NOW TO REPLY TO YOUR ANSWERS…..
1) I agree
2) Don’t count on getting a job in the near future if your paranoia is so far out of control.
Nowhere in the registration process does it ask for any PERSONAL details other than your “NAME, TOWN AND EMAIL ADDRESS”
In fact you give out more personal details when you send a CV to an employer.
And if you want to take that to the nth degree what’s to say that a CV you send to a reputable employer isn’t printed off and left on their desk where ANYONE can pick it up and walk off?
Do you see why your statement doesn’t hold water now?
Regarding the issue of Identity theft, How the hell is it UJ’s fault if people are STILL STUPIDLY HANDING OUT BANK/PERSONAL DETAILS TO TOTAL STRANGERS????
Would you give me your bank details now if I asked you? WOULD IT BE THIS SITES FAULT IF YOU DID???
3) The rules are set in stone, your JSA agreement states CLEARLY that you are expected to APPLY for no less than 3 jobs per week. (not a lot really if you’re looking for a job is it??)
4) See above for number of jobs, as for claims of advisors making ANY threats towards claimants there is a procedure in place for dealing with such things, Whilst you are sat with your JCP advisor (do not raise your voice or swear) ask for the manager to brought over (they have to do this) then ask the advisor to repeat the threat (whether it’s “apply for 40 jobs or I’ll sanction your benefits” or any other threat. All JCP advisors have to comply with the governments MANDATORY “bullying and harassment” policy and are liable for disciplinary action if they break it.
5) You can still use any site you wish to to apply for jobs, you do not have to apply for a single job on UJ if you don’t want to.
All you need to do is click on application history and in the “NOTES” section list the jobs you have applied for. (AN ONLINE JOBSEARCH BOOK)
Although it will become Mandatory to sign up to UJ it can never be Mandatory for you to apply for a job through the site UNLESS there is a job that matches your skills and requirements (but why wouldn’t you apply for that if you wanted a job?)
Whilst I agree that not everyone on benefits is playing the system there is a massive number that are, are these people supposed to be allowed to get away with it?
If you are actively seeking employment I have no issue with you receiving any financial help available.
BUT
If you want to know how many people are milking the system week in and week out walk into ANY Wetherspoons or Yates Pub, Anytime between 9am and 5pm and count how many people are in there. (obviously deduct pensioners)
One of my friends is the manager of our local Wetherspoons and openly admits that they would have closed ages ago had it not been for the “doleys pissing their gyros up the wall”
And in response to Beano’s “daily mail” comment:
Firstly, grow up you clown
As I have already pointed out I do not read any newspaper as they are solely in the business of stirring up trouble and confusion to a) sell more papers and b) attack/defend (depending on the paper) whichever government is in power.
Anyone see question time last night?
Nadine Doris said there were 1 million private job vacancies.
Where are these job vacancies?
They are not on the official DWP approved Universal Job Match (where you would think they would be).
Also not on the other job boards.
I think Nadine added an extra zero
Angry little troll, isnt he. Maybe if he keeps insisting his experience is the only one it will make it true. Maybe hes just hoping if he makes a nasty comment a day we will all get bored of this thread and he will have ‘won’ being the last person here. Seriously, Im not going to feed this troll any more. dzwasp thankyou for all the advice and help you have put on this tread but this nasty little guy is just trying to be provocative. I seriously suggest you give up as this seems to be about entertainment for him.
I give up on this site. Anyone who doesn’t have the same opinion as you is either a daily mail reader or a troll. How small minded can people be. Good bye and good luck.
dzwasp,
You are correct about nadine doris being wrong about the number of vacancies, It’s actually far more than that. If you are struggling locating these vacancies I suggest contacting your advisor and ask for help with what is widely known as “the hidden jobs market”
This includes such outlandish thoughts as “asking friends if they know if their company is recruiting”
As for them not being on the uj site? It’s mandatory for YOU to be on it NOT THE EMPLOYERS.
So if it is more than the 1 million than nadine is on about, how come there are 2.5 million registered unemployed?
You would have thought it would be around 1 to 1.5 million?
Now only 7% of the 2.5 million according to dwp figures are fraudsters.
You would have thought jcp advisors would be shouting out the roof tops about so many jobs for their customers? And letting them know?
In fact they are confused where nadine got this figure from as everyone else was that saw question time and have come to the conclusion an extra zero was added.
http://ayeright.com/2013/01/universal-jobmatch-worst-job-board-launch-ever/
All this trolling is futile because the fact remains that it is not mandatory to sign up to UJM let alone consenting to DWP to access it. My advisor this week told me that he could not and would not force anybody to register for UJM. THE END.
They will of course continue to bully and harass people to sign up for it but as long as you stand your ground and know you rights as is your right in a free country you have nothing to fear because even IDS cannot deny the rule of law (untill ofcourse he gets it changed or goes potty trying, my monies on the latter)
Beana,
Thank you for replying but I have to ask you this, what part of my posts is in any way angry? Which comments of mine are in any way nasty?
As for my “experience” being the only one……As you know NOTHING about me or my circumstances now OR in the past allow me to enlighten you.
Before I started work on this side of the fence I was unemployed for 18 months and had to go through the humiliation of signing on every 2 weeks the same as everyone on here!!
The difference with me seems to be that as I was getting money off them and wanted a job I didn’t mind filling in my jobsearch book and providing proof of interviews if they asked for it.
And as for you “feeding me” unlike dz wasp who actually READS my comments and then puts together an intelligent argument (or actually agrees with me) I won’t miss your comments (I’m actually still laughing at the fact you expect us to believe the job centre FORCED you to apply for a job driving buses when you have no driving licence, seriously don’t be a dick lol)
As for this being entertaining for me………I thought this site was an open forum for people to air their views and actually debate the issue or is it just a site for people to comment on if they only agree with your fucked up view of the world?
You say that all this is unfair and then question my right to FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND FREEDOM TO HAVE MY OWN OPINION and then have the nerve to call ME a Daily Mail reader (which seems to be the goto insult on these forums)
May I suggest that if you have no wish to respect anyone elses opinions you don’t force YOURS onto people.
Although judging by the lack of intelligence you’ve used in your posts I’m guessing you’re one of the people that might be caught out by the JCP checking if you’re looking for work.
Sign the petition to end this farce, scrap UJM now!.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/42705
Dzwasp,
ONLY 7% are fraudsters? IF that is in fact the case that still equates over £600 million in JSA benefit ALONE over the space of 12 months ADD the cost of housing and council tax and you are talking a couple of BILLION pounds a year (and that’s IF its as low as 7%)
Do you honestly think that every small employer that has a job vacancy can be bothered to inform the DWP or the job centre?
Or do they ask people that are already working for them if they know anybody reliable?
You lot are that busy chasing Zebras you’ve forgotten what horses look like!!
“If you hear hooves think Horses not Zebras”
Actually a bit lower than 7% :
Click to access fem_1112.pdf
But it is defo not the 48% to 50% that the person on the street thinks it is (and the right wing media like people to think it is).
Dzwasp,
How do you know what the man on the street thinks? BECAUSE THE MEDIA TELLS YOU!!
All the problems relating to UJ have been blown out of all proportion by THE MEDIA
Do you know how I found out about this thread? It was a link on the Guardian Website ffs.
Let me put it another way.
If the government came out and announced that everybody on the dole would be given a job and be paid £10,000 A WEEK
The sun and Star would call it an Outrage because it was unfair to doleys expecting them to work.
The Mail would say it’s an outrage because it’s only available to illegal immigrants.
The Times would demand all poor people be taken out and shot.
And the Daily Sport would claim that a man had turned into a fishfinger through the shock of working.
THE MEDIA IS NOT THERE TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH.
THE MEDIA IS THERE TO MAKE MONEY THE SAME AS ANY OTHER BUSINESS.
GOOD NEWS DOESN’T MAKE MONEY.
Or if that doesn’t make it clear how about this……….. These people own the british media lol.
In Britain and Ireland, Rupert Murdoch owns best-selling tabloid The Sun as well as the broadsheet The Times and Sunday Times, and 39% of satellite broadcasting network BSkyB. BSkyB in turn owns a significant part of ITV plc and 5% of Shine Limited.Daily Mail and General Trust (DMGT) own The Daily Mail and The Mail on Sunday, Ireland on Sunday, and free London daily Metro, and control a large proportion of regional media, including through subsidiary Northcliffe Media, in addition to large shares in ITN and GCap Media.
Richard Desmond owns OK! magazine, Channel 5, the Daily Express and the Daily Star.
The Evening Standard and The Independent] are both owned by Russian businessman and ex KGB agent Alexander Lebedev.
OR TO PUT IT EVEN CLEARER SOME OF THE MOST CORRUPT PEOPLE IN EXISTANCE!!!
And yet you believe every word they say lol
Nah I do not believe everything they say – in fact most of it is some strange agenda and propaganda.
What I am fed up with though is peoples opinions and comments (in the street, pub, in the shops) influenced by the media.
Job wise in a weird catch 22 situation due to not being able to drive (and cannot afford too at the moment), bus services having very strange bus time changes (means 2 major places for work are cut off).
Also due to fact being on the work program I cannot be put on any training courses due to lack of funds (or so they say).
When I was not on the WP the JCP were very happy and helpful to put me on training courses, as soon as I was referred to the WP, the JCP did not want to know and said to ask the WP.
signing off for today.
Dzwasp,
You genuinely have my sympathies regarding your catch 22,
But regarding funding for training courses your WP Provider has access to funding for various courses, alternatively contact your local college or adult learning centre because a lot of courses are free if you are on JSA (not knowing your area I’m not sure where to tell you to look but I’m happy to look into it for you if you give me an area and what you’re after)
(this isn’t a breach of data protection btw lol)
Signing off as well.
managed to sort out a book keeping course – starts in feb.
been trying to find one closer than this one but the closest one starts in april.
now got to put up with the snow
Good luck with that matey, hope it works out for you.
winding em up on this one now lol
OOOOH the names I’ve been called are shocking lol
Why do you enjoy winding people up? Why does doing so amuse you?
I dont know if it is a loop hole , but when I was today faced with bein given a directive to open an acoount I claimed the following , If I open an account I will have to upload my cv and therfore my personal details , there are people ,for reasons I am not prepared to go into who would like to know my address so they can do me serious harm , as I believe there are no significant vetting procedures of employers unless I can open an annonymous account you will be putting me at risk , therefore I will put this in writing and I will ask you to sign to say you are aware of this but are still giving me the directive and therefore no choice but to comply and put my life in danger . I finished with you can have a copy for your records and a copy will go to my solicitor , as evidence should I be murdered are harmed in any way as a reult of putting my personal details online as directed by YOU , NOW would you like to help me open the account and pointed out I would not be giving the permission to access it . I was told we will look at this again some other time
Jim,
I have never read such utter shyte!!
“don’t make me send my CV to employers on your site because naughty men might hurt me”
Are you for real??
Had you actually LOOKED at the site you would see that there are 2 settings quite clearly marked PUBLIC and PRIVATE!!
If you tick PUBLIC anyone can see it.
If you tick PRIVATE only people YOU send your CV to can see it (EXACTLY THE SAME AS E-MAILING TO AN EMPLOYER)
Or are you that paranoid that you honestly think these bad men will put an advert on UJ hoping that you in particular will apply???
But thank you for pointing out this potential loop hole I will now inform my fellow welfare to work advisors of your scam.
I notice as well that you posted this comment at 2:45 AM. You know what me and several million other people were doing at that time??
SLEEPING BECAUSE WE HAD TO GET UP FOR WORK!!
Hopefully your advisor isn’t stupid and has sanctioned you for being a knob.
Just saying……..
Hi all,
I’m interested in hearing from anyone who is on the Work Programme and has been given a bad time when it comes to what YOU want to do with your future.
I recently had my second appointment at A4e. At one point, my advisor was discussing what type of jobs I’d like to apply for, I told the advisor that I wished to do part-time retail work at present, and that I’m looking at setting up my own business as soon as possible after I leave college in July in Photography. I was incredibly surprised to see a smirk appear from this advisor and to be quite honest, I was waiting for either a fit of laughter from the advisor, or to be told, you’re not good enough to do this. In fact, she gave the impression of the latter.
I took up Photography nearly six years ago and have had alot of experience in the field in just six years. I understand the fact that I may not be able to set up business in six months time and may have to wait years before I get the chance. But I refuse to give up on something that I’m passionate about, and would love to do as a job in the future.
After my first two appointments, which were filling in lots of paperwork, and being told that services such as setting up your own business are available, I wanted to make use of these services. But after this episode, I’m not convinced I’ll get much help at all.
It’s already quite clear to me that the Job Centre are not interested in what an individual is aiming for in the future. They’re after everyone to get into a job as soon as possible, whether the individual wants to do that job or not. Now I feel the same way about A4e and the Work Programme.
I’m interested to see who else has had a similar encounter such as this, or any negitive experience with the Work Programme.
I have read a few horror stories on here, but touch wood I have not had any problems myself (prospects).
Guys, I am thinking about signing up to apply for jobs through them, but I was studying full time while claiming (2 years ago) will they find out and call my uni and take me to court then ask me to spew all the pennies they gave me
Thank you
Alex
I mean if they viewed my C.V they’d be able to see my education history with dates
Lol we’re turning into a big brother/totalitarian state
You could be on sticky ground over this as that would be classed as fraud.
If they did decide to pursue it they would most likely want all the money paid back and you could face a sanction.
Now you are in a catch 22 situation as even if you do not sign up for UJ, the jcp can ask to see your cv.
Alex,
You don’t say if you’re claiming now (but I’m guessing you’re not by the way it’s written)? Have you thought about just altering your course details and putting the words “part time” in brackets after it. I seriously doubt they would contact your uni and I doubt your Uni would give them any details if they did (they’re not obliged to, same as a school isn’t obliged to confirm exam results or even if you attended)
As long as you actually load a CV on it’s unlikely they’ll actually look at it. (from the feedback I’m getting they’re just looking at application and activity history to see what people are up to)
However if you aren’t signing on they you don’t have to tick the “allow DWP/JCP to access it” button as you aren’t claimiing benefits therefore don’t have to abide by the rules and allow them to view your jobsearch activity.
They can also check via your national insurance number as well based on NI contributions.
To be fair and I will probably get stick from people on this board, this is one of the reasons why UJ and also UC was brought in/being brought in to stop fraud like you have committed (which has made things worse for genuine claimants trying to find a job).
You could try talking to citizens advice about it or pray the JCP will not look into it, do not think the CAB will take a favourable view on it though.
Dzwasp,
Aren’t you impressed that I have changed my ways to the extent I didn’t kick off about the “fraud” committed lol?
See I can be good if I try.
I actually have some sympathy for people who want to improve their education and I think that some form of benefit should be payable to make this possible. However you are completely correct that this sort of thing is one of the reasons that people claiming are automatically classed as fraudsters.
I’m presuming that you also got a student loan on top of your benefits Alex?
With that level of financial fraud experience I confidently predict a future with you at the head of a major bank lol.
I do have sympathy for people who need to learn skills via education to hopefully make getting employment easier – this is why the JCP and the WP also have budgets to send people on college courses (lots are concession free if you are claiming JSA, ok it is only up to max of level 2, after that you need to pay yourself).
BUT
Someone going to university gets student loans, so claiming for benefit is taking the piss.
Now my anger is starting to show as I do get very angry about actual benefit fraud (does not matter how you dress it up) & people getting away with it, yet I expect if I did one thing out of line the jcp would come down on me like a ton of bricks.
This brings in IDS & the Hoburn & Lord Fraud to start demonising the genuine people who need benefits to survive in this depressed job market.
People need to realise benefit fraud (I know it is a very low number) is not helping anyone at all.
latest unemployment figures shows a drop (but not by that much)
2.5 million down to 2.49 million :
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/newsroom/press-releases/2013/jan-2013/dwp010-13.shtml
There just isnt a problem with unemployment, it will not magically kick start the economy, 2.49 million is NOTHING compared to the dole queues of Maggies Britain, especially when you take into account population growth including immigrancy…..2.49 million unemployed is ACTUALLY a sign we’re doing VERY well in terms of creating and filling jobs, this IS NOT the cause of the economic crisis…..simply a scape goat…..screw the Gov screw the BBC screw the propanda screw the Feds, i aint playing anymore
Anyone else been sanctioned for not using UJM?
looks as though Japinky has from the 5th jan 😦
Johnny
P.s,
Contrary to your opinion of me I have genuine sympathy for people that are struggling to find work, I have the luxury of being able to see this from both sides as I was out of work for 18 months myself and had to jump through hoops with the JCP to get my benefits.
The only difference is I didn’t whine about it constantly.
They gave me £65 quid a week and paid my council tax (I have a mortgage so got no help with that and ended up fighting repossession more often than I can remember)
For my £65 a week and council tax they asked me to prove I was looking for a job, as I was looking for a job this wasn’t an issue.
So before you put me in the same pot as the “nazi cunts” I hear so much about on here you might want to take a step back and realise I have a better knowledge of the system than 90 percent of the people on here.
I know what they can sanction for (I also know how to get out of them)
I know exactly what a job seeker is expected to do to comply with JCP and remove all possibility of sanctions.
And more importantly if anyone on here actually wants a job and needs help to find one I would be happy to help in any way I could. (ask dzwasp if I offered him any help?)
Not that I expect a stampede.
I don’t care if you’re fucking Mother Theresa, you don’t come on here and hector or abuse people.
That is exactly what he is doing, and he is doing wrong becase some people on here are fragile and frightened.
Johnny,
People on here constantly complain about how the rest of society views them. And that response just enforces their view.
Yet again you avoid any of the questions I asked you.
Why is that Johnny?
What are you afraid of Johnny?
Neither have you answered my questions about your onesided attacks on me?
Do the same “hectoring and abuse” rules you enforce with me not apply to anyone else?? (including yourself as by singling me out for abuse you are by definition a bully)
Or do you only know how to respond with foul language and veiled threats?
I expected the owner of this site to be open to debate but obviously I was wrong about that as you are just a shepherd tending your flock and dishing out your own rules as you see fit (not much different from IDS and Cameron really lol)
I said to you ages ago that if you have an issue with my opinions you have the right to deny me freedom of speech on this site.
It’s quite sad because this site actually has a chance to dispel a lot of peoples opinions of the unemployed but because any opposing view is shouted down and/or painted to be a “nazi” it falls short of what it’s capable of.
I won’t even grace Cassandra with a response (in case I get called a bully)
So what’s it gonna be Johnny?
You gonna answer my questions or just shut me down, hurl abuse at me and delete me?
Your choice.
I already know your answer.
I’ve really got better thing to do thanks. bye.
phew all got a bit heated.
I did get some good advice.
think folks on either side of the argument needs to take a chill pill.
need some constructive help for people on the job hunt.
its the same with any company. Google for instance so why such propaganda and paranoia
Just got informed from a DWP advisor on Consumer Action Group Forum, look in Universal Jobmatch post…UJM WILL BE MANDATORY SIGN UP FROM 18 FEB!!!
do you have the link to that post?
ok have seen the post on the consumer action group.
18th feb hmmm IDS has been very quiet, surely he would have been snarling about this by now?
How can universal jobmatch ever be mandatory? universal jobmatch needs cookies to use it, and to force cookies on a persons computer is illegal, therefore universal jobmatch on a mandatory basis is illegal. i would not worry about it, just tell your advisor what you have read here.
They now have Internet Access Devices in most Jobcentres on which the cookies have already been accepted. They expect you to use these if you don’t want to accept cookies on your own computer.
It’s debatable whether they can act in your stead to accept cookies when you may not wish to. I have a complaint in with the ICO to try to get to the bottom of this.
Id say it still must be illegal. as long as you dont wish to accept cookies no matter what computer is used, because its still your personnel infomation that is on universal jobmatch no matter what computer is used.
I emailed my local MP yesterday, and received a reply from his senior caseworker:
“Many thanks for your email regarding your concerns over the Universal Jobmatch account for those seeking work.
I am concerned to hear that DWP staff would appear to be mis-leading claimants and will be contacting Jobcentre Plus on your behalf to establish the rules and regulations governing Jobmatch and will also bring to their attention your concerns.
I note that you have already submitted a complaint to Jobcentre Plus but it would also be useful if you could forward me a list of the experiences you have encountered with DWP employee’s as the MP can then use this information to highlight the problem with the appropriate department . If you could forward me your national insurance number that would also be helpful.”
I emailed her all the issues I have been facing, and all the times I’ve been lied to and threatened with sanctions for not doing what they say.
I mentioned to her all the online forums, with the hundreds of accounts of complaints regarding DWP, namely with Universal Jobmatch.
I also received a phone call from my Jobcentre manager, who tried to fob me off with a verbal apology, but I repeatedly said that I want to go ahead with a formal complaint, to which he is now sending me some correspondence through the post.
My advice to you all would be to make a formal complaint against your own Jobcentre, and to contact your local MP, you can do this through this site:
http://www.writetothem.com
A have an account on ujl and now the jobcentre told me yesterday that access for them to my account is mandatory in two weeks .
i said a don’t have to login to jobsearch so searches would not be on my account i don’t like the fact i’m forced to except cookies or cannot register that alone is not right cause any other website says do you except them
Also i mentioned the fact they changed the terms and conditions this week saying that they will not be held responsible for anything on the site
The fake jobs advertised on it
Her responce over 600 people are on it in my local area and don’t have a problem with the cookies or given them access that a should be deleting my cookies after a use it and should always be deleting cookies irrespectively
The fake jobs it is up to me to make sure the jobs are real by checking for employer website or phone them
I previous said a wasn’t joining it wasn’t a secure website even gave her a copy of what the pcs union said about it on there website it’s in my file .
A job came up a only could apply via ujl so forced to join it seems to me it’s bend over and take it up the ass we don’t care what you said many forms you give us we want access to it cause i was made to feel this following fortnight is my last job log book because she said keep writeing it down for the next fortnight see ingeus when you go ask them about it
A tweeted the pcs union asking them if access to ujl is to become mandatory in two weeks no responce as yet
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DDOS attacks on universal job search would be pointless as Routers have prevention methods that block traffic from muliple accessing from the same WAN address. If this was not implemented nearly all large websites would not last overnight. People just look for work and stop moaning. You have the time to do this if you are not working anyway unless of course you are working illegally. Think ourselves lucky we get paid at all when millions of people worldwide starve without being entitled to zilch
Hi sorry to correct you Matthew but I think you mean IP address not wan Ddos is mainly run through onion servers and other people’s Wlans “wifi” they have hacked in to but is as an attack really quite shit and pointless its the potential for state sponsored cyber warfare. But anyway how you got ddos from cookies ill. Never know but on the subject of cookies I think its a knee jerk reaction after Mrs Mays spy bill got the dwps. name removed from it by the lib dems I mean I’m white hat and I can tell you that if you say no to it
youwould
cookies you would be red flagged
what a F*****G NIGHTMARE this is, I Use Reed for Jobsearches, not jobs.directgov, anyway a few days ago I received a Letter from JSA telling me that they are going to stop my money until may 2013, for apparently not applying for a JOB they give me!!!… JOBCENTRE never ever give me a Job to apply for, How does work?…So I had to do a Hardship Payment Form… GUYS WHAT EVER YOU DO THE JOBCENTRE ARE A WASTE OF SPACE…
GET RID OF ALL THEM foreigner, that way 100% British people would get our Jobs back, Worn t receive benefits, and be a better place to live!!!
did they say what job it was and exactly when they were supposed to have sent you the job and how?
no they didnt mate.
In that case how can you apply for a job you do not know about?
have you signed up for ujm and given dwp access?
I would ask for in writing exactly what job it was and what date they were supposed to have given you and what method they gave you (in there eyes) and ask them to prove they sent you the job details.
Do they send you jobs via txt or email?
Something sounds wrong about this.
Shut up, you racist little shit.
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hey I haven’t allowed them to look at my direct gov yet.. I go in with book with 6 jobs search in it evertime they ask I say oops ….il do it but don’t I had a conversation asking if I bring proof why do I need to allow acess to my search isn’t print outs enuff.. reply was it would be easier just to click few buttons wouldn’t it … I am not too sure about this .. I said if you had right to look and I sign on then why do I have to give permission ..if its all above board and mandatory..
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First off I would like to say awesome blog! I had a quick question that I’d like to ask if you don’t mind.
I was interested to know how you center yourself and clear your thoughts prior to writing.
I have had trouble clearing my mind in getting my ideas out there.
I do take pleasure in writing but it just seems like the first 10 to 15 minutes tend
to be lost just trying to figure out how to begin. Any
recommendations or tips? Appreciate it!
Just been to sign on and refused because I don’t have a print out of the Universal Job match account web pages. On my way out spoke to the main guy there and he said I can’t talk to you about it. My advisor calls me a liar every time ago and does the same to people who see her before me.
I was wondering if you ever thought of changing the structure of your website?
Its very well written; I love what youve got to say.
But maybe you could a little more in the way of content so people could connect with it better.
Youve got an awful lot of text for only having one or 2 images.
Maybe you could space it out better?
I think the unemployed should saction the government.
I agree with joe.
http://www.boycottworkfare.org/
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What’s up, after reading this awesome post i am too cheerful to share my know-how here with friends.
IM FED UP BEING ASKED FOR HELP FROM FELLOW JOB SEEKERS USING PC’S TO LOOK FOR JOBS AT MY LOCAL JOB CENTRE. I FELT GUILTY RECENTLY FOBBING OF A MAN I KNEW,HE WAS WALKING WITH A STICK AND WAS AS YELLOW AS PARCHMENT, JAUNDICE I GUESSED. “FIT FOR WORK”? THIS MAN WAS’NT FIT ENOUGH TO BE UPSTAIRS NEVER MIND FIT FOR WORK. IVE JUST FOUND OUT HE WAS BURIED LAST WEEK. BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS NOW IAN DUNCAN SMITH!
the whole government is a joke and all job centers should be shut down asap, they hate everyone, people with disabilities.
On account of internet activity of user based activities even after they have logged off from the UJ website, why is it that there are still secure ports established open linking to the Monster Jobs Server in London?
A couple of DOS commands or any other networking tool will reveal these connections are permanently established. If this is not the equivalent of hacking and breaking the DPA I don’t know what is.
If you have proof of this, maybe it should be reported to newspapers?
jobcentre tell me that if you register with universal jobmatch with gov.uk your info will not be registered with the main monster site or database in USA Is this correct
they are lying.
monster is the engine behind the actual universal jobmatch.
it says in the terms and conditions and also the faqs on the universal jobmatch site.
universal jobmatch faqs Q.:19.Will jobseekers who register on GOV.UK also be registered on the main Monster site or database. A.No.Universal Jobmatch will be accessed via GOV.UK and will function independently of the Monster site. This is on the FAQs sheet they gave me my objection to signing up is because Monster store the information in the USA and is subject to US law which i don,t think they can do.Can the lie about this as you say dzwasp and thanks for your reply
Ah right.
I cannot see how it can stay independent as the database engine behind UJ is run by monster.
there probably is a way of checking using cookie readers.
I swear in the t & c they said the cv would be stored in the us and on us servers.
yes i read monsters t+c but the one that is up now is signifintly different from the original one i have saved not as explicit as their new layout makes little mention of what they keep and store.Seems the DWP are saying there is no transfer of Universal Jobmatch info to Monsters USA database which i don,t believe.Thank you for your reply
the dwp is a joke. all of their staff are idiots. and all of their pcs run VMware. http://www.boycottworkfare.org/
If you feel Universal JobMatch is a real disappointment, and is the worst recruitment website in the UK, please nominate it for the Wooden NORA in the National Online Recruitment Awards.
http://norauk.com/the-wooden-nora/
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Hola! I’ve been reading your blog for a while now and finally got the courage to
go ahead and give you a shout out from Dallas Texas!
Just wanted to say keep up the fantastic work!
The work programme is not fit for purpose as is indicated in its pathetic success rate.As for the job centre, AKA “Joke centre” most of their staff need to go on a humanity awareness course.Maybe the clowns in government can come up with another great plan.
I just like the helpful information you supply on your
articles. I will bookmark your weblog and check again
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stuff proper here! Best of luck for the next!
There is certainly a great deal to know about this topic.
I like all of the points you’ve made.
they have recently changed the requirements for the JSA claims and brought in a new method of recording your jobs.. a handy booklet that won’t fit in your pocket anymore, each page is for a week of “what you did”, you/advisor (scoff, the only thing they advise me on is if i’m at risk of being sanctioned) writes a goal in the top box then you write in the bottom box what you did to achieve said goal or goals, i personally need to supply all the jobs i applied for on a notepad page which is exactly what i did with the job sheets before this which is an utter waste of time, manpower, and resources..
ALSO you are now expected to apply for EVERYTHING, not just what is suitable, so good luck to all
This is why I am reluctant to sign on again (need to as hours at work have been cut by 50% to 10 hours a week).
You really make it seem really easy along with your presentation
but I to find this matter to be really something which I
believe I’d by no means understand. It kind of feels
too complicated and very vast for me. I am taking a look ahead for your subsequent put up, I
will try to get the dangle of it!
Given, UJ is mostly a joke. And the government is indeed trying to make things more strict and mandatory. But surely– It isn’t so bad. Say we go to the extreme: that all of your details, shoe size and intentions are known, by anyone, and that you have to log in once a day (which I have to do), write a quick note in, do a search- it’s still not so bad.
Data protection: sure, another joke, but what’s the point in feeling any animosity about it, the only thing in my personal details that I care about is not getting my money stolen, or recieving unwanted spam. Neither of those things happen with UJ. It’s just a daft site you have to use. A five minute job per day, and then you can use proper job search engines outside.
Making claiments look for jobs as a full-time job? (outside of family restrictions, benefit type etc), that’s alright too, and obviously a pain in the arse, so- we **** it off by going for our aspirations, and not having to use the naff system.
I appreciate the points raised against UJ, and the governments grey intentions, but don’t get why they’re that much of a problem.
Surely it’s best to just to nod your head whilst having to claim (I speak mostly about JSA) follow the mundane rules, and just move on and do something better?
I saw an advisor two weeks ago: she set me a task (this ridiculous S.T.A.R thing.. Situation, Task, Action,Result). Anyway, I did it ( a chimpanzee could do it!), but she didn’t even look to see what it was about! (and I took it home with me without her even looking at it. So what was the point of me doing it?) She then set me another ‘task’… Bring in a filled in application form (any application form). However, she said she would not be seeing me next time I signed on, but that she would see me in four weeks time. Naturally I assumed that I had to hand the application form in to her next time we met. But I went to sign on today and this fascist, poe-faced bitch (a different advisor) was disgraceful on so many levels… She treated me like a schoolboy who hadn’t done his homework! When I tried to explain why I hadn’t brought the form in (as I thought it was for the usual advisor I see), she basically implied that I was lying! Then she outrageously made threats about ‘Decision Makers’ over a pointless and meaningless application form! My jobsearch was up to date, present and impeccable. Yet this evil bint is quibbling and making threats about a piece of paper that has no relevance whatsoever to my jobsearch! I said to her why would I bring in loads of Jobsearch evidence, and not bring in a stupid application form?! Is that the sign of a skiver? It just doesn’t add up. She was having none of it: Saying she was ‘only following orders’ (that old Nazi classic!). So I went over to the local library, got the form from my email address (I did really have it ready and done!), printed the thing and handed it in.
My record in the Jobcentre is faultless (no lateness, no trouble, attended all their Work Programme crap etc.). And although I had never met this advisor before, she automatically saw me as lying, lazy,cheaitng scum. Just like she sees every other poor sod who has to go in there, I suppose… What bends my head is if I had the form with me, she wouldn’t even have looked at it anyway. They just want people to follow orders (no matter how childish and absurd they are!), jump through hoops and catch people out (if they can!). She also told me that applying for 45 jobs in two weeks for my chosen/qualified for field wasn’t good enough. She snottily stated that I should be applying for ‘anything’… And I know what the pencil necked fascist meant when she said anything: She meant dog’s work. Only problem with that is I am not a dog (her, on the other hand…). The joke is that I have probably got a better education and qualifications than she has got.Yet because I am out of work that gives people like her carte blanche to treat decent people like irritating livestock and unwanted vermin. When it is them that are the vermin! The wretched Tory/Lib Dem coalition are the heinous bastards that are in power, and these Job Centre advisors are collaborators. They should all, eventually, be held accountable for their despicable behavior.
Said evil minded bitch works at Prestwich Job Centre (Poe faced, skinny, wears glasses): and she has the morals and views of a Nazi!
Trouble with these jumped up, modern day Mr. Bumbles is that they think anyone (and I mean anyone!) who goes into the Job Centre (or is unemployed) is thick and ignorant. Not so… I have already informed my solicitor of said incident (and she is a bloody good solicitor! I bet they also I saw an advisor two weeks ago: she set me a task (this ridiculous S.T.A.R thing.. Situation, Task, Action,Result). Anyway, I did it ( a chimpanzee could do it!), but she didn’t even look to see what it was about! (and I took it home with me without her even looking at it. So what was the point of me doing it?) She then set me another ‘task’… Bring in a filled in application form (any application form). However, she said she would not be seeing me next time I signed on, but that she would see me in four weeks time. Naturally I assumed that I had to hand the application form in to her next time we met. But I went to sign on today and this fascist, poe-faced bitch (a different advisor) was disgraceful on so many levels… She treated me like a schoolboy who hadn’t done his homework! When I tried to explain why I hadn’t brought the form in (as I thought it was for the usual advisor I see), she basically implied that I was lying! Then she outrageously made threats about ‘Decision Makers’ over a pointless and meaningless application form! My jobsearch was up to date, present and impeccable. Yet this evil bint is quibbling and making threats about a piece of paper that has no relevance whatsoever to my jobsearch! I said to her why would I bring in loads of Jobsearch evidence, and not bring in a stupid application form?! Is that the sign of a skiver? It just doesn’t add up. She was having none of it: Saying she was ‘only following orders’ (that old Nazi classic!). So I went over to the local library, got the form from my email address (I did really have it ready and done!), printed the thing and handed it in.
My record in the Jobcentre is faultless (no lateness, no trouble, attended all their Work Programme crap etc.). And although I had never met this advisor before, she automatically saw me as lying, lazy,cheaitng scum. Just like she sees every other poor sod who has to go in there, I suppose… What bends my head is if I had the form with me, she wouldn’t even have looked at it anyway. They just want people to follow orders (no matter how childish and absurd they are!), jump through hoops and catch people out (if they can!). She also told me that applying for 45 jobs in two weeks for my chosen/qualified for field wasn’t good enough. She snottily stated that I should be applying for ‘anything’… And I know what the pencil necked fascist meant when she said anything: She meant dog’s work. Only problem with that is I am not a dog (her, on the other hand…). The joke is that I have probably got a better education and qualifications than she has got.Yet because I am out of work that gives people like her carte blanche to treat decent people like irritating livestock and unwanted vermin. When it is them that are the vermin! The wretched Tory/Lib Dem coalition are the heinous bastards that are in power, and these Job Centre advisors are collaborators. They should all, eventually, be held accountable for their despicable behavior.
Said evil minded bitch works at Prestwich Job Centre (Poe faced, skinny, wears glasses): and she has the morals and views of a Nazi!
Trouble with these jumped up, modern day Mr. Bumbles is that they think anyone (and I mean anyone!) who goes into the Job Centre (or is unemployed) is thick and ignorant. Not so… I have already informed my solicitor of said incident (and she is a bloody good solicitor! I bet they also think that someone unemployed won’t be properly represented on a legal level!), and it is on record. And if I have to use it at any time in the future, then I will.
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Despite a number of interviews (use ageless CV), where I have passed every skill test set, I have not had a job offer in over six months. Looking at the feeble excuses (framed as rejection letters) I know it is ageism as I graduated over 30 years ago. I recently had a one hour interview at the Job Centre where summary said I was literate and numerate! A pointless exercise if the person had read my CV. I absolutely hate this process and will vote for any part that promises to scrap it!
I cannot see any party scrapping this process 😦
Labour is going to make it tougher.
Ukip is going to make it tougher.
Torys will almost certainly make it tougher
Liberal Democrats – well they will follow the herd.
The JCP will probably try and force/con you in becoming self-employed to take a crappy zero-hour contract where you will be earning less than the JSA.
I am already considering the self employment route as JCP does my head in and my JSA is suspended!!!
I would like too know if my job centre can ask me for proof of interview as I have one with the navy but don’t really want to ask @ the end can you sign me off a letter for my job centre it’s ridiculous !
Think it depends on the reason. They usually ask for evidence of interviews if they clash with sign-on days or some other place they want to send you to that day. If they do want to see evidence, ask them to be specific.
I was told that the only reasons you can miss a sign on day was if you had an interview or a scheduled hospital appointment – apparently GP or dental appoinments are not allowed. Failure to comply could allegedly result in loss of benefit! Obviously they have never tried getting an appointment at my GP. Also to be honest if I felt really ill or had an abcessed tooth I would just go as you connot put your health, or even life, at risk to sign on!
I have been unemployed since April 2014, and the first ‘Work Coach’ at my local JCP was very reasonable, gave me his email address so I could email him copies of the Spread Sheet where I recorded my job searches. This showed the company I had written to, whether they replied to my correspondence, and if I had been invited to an interview, along with the dates all of these happened, I added comments as to whom I spoke too as well. He never made any fuss about that I wouldn’t allow the DWP to access my JobMatch account (which I am trying to find out if they can legally force me to open).
He has now escaped the DWP and has got a job elsewhere, now I have to see a new ‘Work Coach’ and within two minutes of sitting down with her it was obvious she was quite officious, she threw a strop when I would not tell her why I refused to give the DWP access to my Job Match account, and she out in generic search for admin jobs, and there were only four for where I live, there were two which she said I had to apply for as she deemed them suitable, one only paying £6.31 per hour, six hours a day over five days, I pointed out that the pay was illegal, and she said to mention it when I applied, I advised she should also report it, she said she would not do so. She also said she would write to the companies concerned to see if I had applied, she got a little bit upset when I advised her, that those companies would not be allowed to discuss my application, or tell her if I had applied due to Data Protection of 1996.
When I asked if I could have her email address to send my job searches to her, she said No, as it would clutter her email account, I responded by saying I would only email her on the morning of my appointment, and that after she had looked at and printed off the document she could delete it, she still said I had to provide the print outs, she also hinted that she didn’t think I was applying for enough vacancies. This is despite applying for about 140 jobs since April, and attending 17 Interviews. Oh yes, she also wants me to supply print outs of all applications, and invites to interviews.
sounds as though it is going to be a tough ride with this new work coach 😦
the pay issue though, is that only six hours or thirty hours?
£6.31 is minimum wage so they are paying the correct wage per hour.
The work coach even confirmed the new minimum wage is £6.50 per hour, and the job was for thirty hours total. Thankfully when I rang the company concerned the vacancy had been filled.
Strange as the minimum wage is still £6.31 an hour until october when it goes up to £6.50 an hour.
http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/the-national-minimum-wage-rates
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/mar/12/national-minimum-wage-rise-above-inflation
Thanks for the info’. I just hope that one of the two interviews I have is successful. From now on when I attend the JCP I will be discretely recording all my conversations so that I have evidence should it be needed.
I have found that Job Centre staff vary enormously.My main advisor only seemed to be in the office occasionally and over a period of seven months I only saw her three times. I saw four others and only one seemed to apprecate the fact that I was experencing “ageism”. Like “racism” it may be deemed illegal but exists! I currently have two applications where the position has been put on hold. Agencies and many employers need a serious shake up for wasting so much of job seekers’ time! Maybe sanctions for multiple postings of the same job on UJM or offering to rewrite someone’s CV for £300! can’t see it happening really. 😦
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I was pushed to sign up now i have a job i deleted my account but still get email alerts and can not stop them if you can help with this plz let me know
Unfortunately the software is seriously flawed. Besides the issues with duplicate and fake jobs the search often comes back with irrelevant jobs as a result of incorrect matching on skills and/or location. I suspect that you did not untick the boxes that a) allow DWP to view your activity and b) receive e-mail notifications. Poor design probably means that although you have deleted your account that you view some areas still exist.
Any notes you make are disappear after three months but I do wonder if they are archived out of your view but accessible to those “who may need to know”? Does anybody know if this is the case?
I read somewhere that one of the cookies was a 10 year tracker or something else that stores your data for 10 years…Hey, you accepted the Cookies Man. lol
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The Job Centre referred me to the Shaw Trust as I am a difficult case (over 50 and hitting ageism). The first appointment was pleasant enough (even got a coffee) but the flash card session seemed bizarre and pointless. Now though it seems more of the same – spend so much time job hunting/apply for n jobs per week/etc. WTF there is no point in applying for jobs that you stand zero chance of getting. Quotas and targets seem the alternative to common sense.
Has anyone else experience of these job centre clones?
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They can’t force you to use it, but why fight against it and add it to the list of things you’re refusing to do?
I’m a benbefit claimant and using UJ, crap as it is, just makes it easier to pass on mandatory jobsearch evidence to my advisor.
There is no advantage in Not using it, becuse evidence is still a mandate and the easiest way for the advisor to see it is if is logged in UJ,
You Must log evidence of jobsearch activity no matter what you do, so frankly, you may as well make your advisors job easier by using it.
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I was wondering if it’s possible to delete any of the jobs on my activity list/applied for lists, seeing as how over a year or two the list gets very long?
Forgot to ask this : Why do they need names and emails/phone numbers etc. of people in companies we contact about jobs?
Is it so that they can contact them to check up on us?
If so, it seems a bit mad, as most bosses/works managers etc. are practically on the phone constantly, speaking to customers/potential customers, suppliers/potential suppliers, the bank, the taxman etc.
Do they really need the JC phoning them as well in order to ask them about the people who apply for jobs? Especially considering most get scores, if not hundreds of applications for every job, and many applications are thrown away because the CV isn’t good enough or there’s typing errors in the application etc.
So they may say they’ve not received an application when they have, because they’ve forgotten or not seen the application etc. etc.
Imagine if they get 300 applications and each one has a JC staffer checking up on it? 300 extra, pointless phonecalls, taking up the employer’s time and effort for no good reason.
Just seen this in a post somewhere above :
“As for job seekers being forced to apply for any job. QUITE RIGHT TOO.”
That might seem reasonable, but where’s the sense in :
Making non-drivers apply for driving jobs?
Making people who don’t know what a capstan lathe is, apply for a job with ‘experienced engineer wanted’ as the main criteria?
Making someone who’s never put a bandage on anyone, apply for a theatre nurse job?
It just wastes the time of the unemployed and the the employers.
You can use UJM if you wish,but be warned! its set up in such a way to sanction people at the click of a button,example “Why did you not apply for this job ?” if you over look one single vacancy that maybe sent to you through that site or in the job centre’s un-constructive point of view “we think you should have applied” you will be screwed! it happens to 1000’s across the uk.The site is not fit for purpose, and is littered with out of date ficticious and unsuitable jobs for many.
@Fred, you don’t have to give the jobcentre staff access to your UJM acocunt. It says clearly in the advisor’s ‘toolkit’, specifically the section on using universal jobmatch :
“40. You also cannot issue a Jobseeker’s Direction to mandate a claimant to give us access to their account – this is their decision not ours.”
This is from V56.0 of the ‘toolkit’, which is from this year.
“76.We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this – it is not therefore possible to require JSA claimants to give DWP access to their Universal Jobmatch account.”
This info was given in a freedom of informantion request earlier this year, and is the same as entry No.76 in the full version 56.0 of ‘toolkit’.
Although I would also suggest being cautious in how people use UJM.
Forgot to include this bit above No 40. :
“39. However, for legal reasons, you cannot issue a Jobseeker’s Direction to mandate a claimant to create a profile and public CV unless a DWP IAD service is reasonably available to them should they need to use one – for example, because they do not want to accept cookies and therefore need to have access to a device on which cookies have already been accepted.”
The list of instructions in each section for the jobcentre staff are under 3 headings :
“DWP has access to thier account”
“NO DWP access to their account”
“Claimant not using Universal Jobmatch”
This also clearly shows that we don’t haved to give them access to our UJM account.
Until my benefits were zeroed and I was referred to the Shaw Trust they had me filling in UJM and paper submissions. Shaw Trust were next to useless and kept calling me once I got a job allegedly to offer me support (which was NIL). I suspect they did so to receive monies from DWP for sweet FA. Great I got nothing and others got money for nothing!
So what do people who have been forced to sign up do to unsign??
@Kaye-Marie Ginnaw, If you are asking “What do people do if they’ve given the jobcentre staff access to their UJM account and now they’ve decided they don’t want the staff to have access to the UJM account?” Then As far as I’m aware, all you have to do is tell them you don’t want them to have access to it anymore. I presume they’ll make a fuss, but as long as you have a UJM account and a ‘publically viewable’ CV they can’t do anything. I would suggest going on http://www.gov.uk and hunt around a little bit, you should be able to get to the bit where they tell you that you can make a ‘Freedom Of Information’ request. Tell them what yuo want to do and ask them if it’s alright to do that. They’ll have to tell you the truth. I would also suggest that you request an up-to-date copy of the ‘Toolkit’ that the Jobcentre Advisors have to work from. If you do stop the staff’s access to your UJM account you will have to prvide them with some other form of ‘Proof’. I write all my stuff down. Others print out replies from employers/agencies regarding jobs they’ve applied for.
About the actual number of Job vacancies.
How is this number being assessed?
If it’s by adding up all the jobs advertised on the jobsites, then that’s a load of inaccurate crap.
Why?
Because many jobs are advertised on a single website by several different agancies, leading to 1 job having, say, 4 or 5 entries on that one website.
Most agencies advertise on more than one website, leading to 1 job having 1 entry on 4 or 5 websites.
If 1 job is advertised by say, 5 different agencies on 5 different websites, then 1 job has 25 entries altogether.
So how do we know what the actual truth is?
I noticed this when I was job hunting as at times I applied for the same job via different routes and did complain a number of times. Never got any sensible reply only waffle but at a guess I would say the number of vacancies is inflated by 150% or more!