UPDATE 27/2/13: Registering an account with Universal Jobmatch will become mandatory from the beginning of March 2013. There should still be no requirement to tick the box giving DWP access to your account. For the latest details and what this means for claimants keep an eye on: http://consent.me.uk/universaljobmatch/
The DWP’s obsession with forcing unemployed people into endless, and often pointless, work related activity, is set to reach new heights when Universal Jobmatch is launched next week.
According to the DWP the service is a: “new, free, online job posting and matching service for companies and jobseekers.” Run by private company Monster Jobs, the site will replace the previous online job search facilities provided by the Jobcentre.
Despite earlier denials from the DWP that unemployed claimants will be not forced to sign up to the new site, it now appears as if registering will be mandatory (as the above picture reveals). Claimants will be expected to sign away their rights under the Data Protection Act and hand a vast amount of personal detail over to the DWP, who can them pass the information onto anyone they choose. The legality of this is unsure, as is how and when sanctions might be applied – keep an eye on the internet for new developments.
Jobcentre advisors will have full access to personal accounts, meaning they can check on all activity, snoop on job applications, cover letters and CVs as well as ‘suggest’ job vacancies. Failure to act on the DWP’s suggestions will lead to benefits being sanctioned.
When Universal Credit is eventually introduced, unemployed people will be expected to spend 35 hours a week on ‘work related activity’ (otherwise known as looking for a job). Millions more people who are self-employed or in part time work, including even single parents, will be expected to constantly look for more or better paid work as a condition of in work benefit entitlement. Sick and disabled claimants in the Work Related Activity Group will also be expected to look for work or face benefits being stopped.
If the practice of mandatory sign up to the service continues, then millions of people could be forced to sign away data protection rights and allow DWP officials to have full access to their online job search activity.
Concerns have been raised that this new system will be used to enforce the 35 hours a week job search rule, with DWP officials monitoring time spent on the website, or the numbers of jobs applied and searched for. Claimants could be forced to waste both their own and potential employer’s time by sending in endless applications for jobs they are not qualified for. Job Seekers could feel compelled to spend hours on computers pointlessly clicking their way round the site in the hope of demonstrating job seeking activity.
So far it is unclear exactly how any monitoring will take place. With DWP staff under constant pressure to sanction benefit claims it is far from unthinkable that a lack of Universal Jobmatch activity will be used as an excuse to stop benefits. From now on Jobcentres will not just compel claimants to look for jobs, but may compel claimants how they should look for jobs. Jobcentre’s have a notoriously desperate track record of actually helping people find work, but still claimants will be forced to abandon their own initiative and follow the diktats of DWP staff.
The DWP are triumphantly announcing that the new service will allow job seekers to access job search via their smart phone, or wireless connections.
Once again the clueless DWP is assuming that people living on £70 a week – or less for those under 25 – all secretly have iphones and superfast broadband. For the impoverished few claimants without the latest gadgets, they claim that internet cafes can be used to access the new mandatory service.
Internet cafes can cost between £1 and £3 an hour depending on where you live. Even if unemployed claimants – who are increasingly being pushed into using food banks for survival – can afford to spend half their income on internet cafes, these are not secure environments for revealing confidential personal information.
This Government’s willing ignorance when it comes to personal online security is likely to lead to identity fraud on an unprecedented scale. Those with little knowledge of computers will be vulnerable to having their entire identity stolen by any dodgy bastard who hangs around internet cafes offering to ‘help’ people access benefit services. And that’s before the site inevitably gets hacked and millions of people’s personal information is placed in the public domain.
The problems with Universal Jobmatch don’t end there.
Other recruitment agencies are hardly likely to hand over all of their vacancies to Monster Jobs. It is likely many will boycott the site completely – meaning there could be even less jobs on the new scheme than the pitiful amount available under the old.
There even seems to be potential for the site to be used by stalkers, abusive ex-partners or loan sharks to track people down. Employers, of any size, will be able to select candidates for job vacancies who will then be compelled to apply or face sanctions. Whilst personal details are to be anonymised, this still means any employer could for example gain the details of every unemployed teaching assistant in the local area (or people with even more specific skills/qualifications). If the employer informs the DWP they want to interview these people then claimants will have no choice but to send in applications complete with personal details.
According to a must read article published on the Open Rights Group website, potential ’employers’ will only be asked to provide a verified post code and phone number to gain access to the service.
Like so many of Iain Duncan Smith’s crazy schemes, Universal Jobsmatch is not just draconian, but fucking stupid. It is also likely to be expensive. Whilst poor families are being socially cleansed from big cities and disabled people face brutal benefit cuts, the DWP is throwing money around like confetti on endless reforms which are doomed to disaster.
For more details on Universal Jobmatch, and many other areas of data protection laws relating to claimants visit: http://www.consent.me.uk/
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the void 
Here is a response to a FOI.
It is very clear from this response that an advisor has the discretion to ask a claimant to register, and in case of refusal, to stop his or her benefits.
With regard to your question about plans to make registration mandatory, the service will greatly enhance employment prospects, so we expect most JSA claimants will register willingly. However, where registration is deemed by a Jobcentre Plus adviser as reasonable in terms of improving employment prospects, but the claimant will not do so willingly, the adviser will be able to require registration through the issue of a Jobseeker’s Direction. Similarly, under Universal Credit, where registration with the service is deemed by a Jobcentre Plus adviser as reasonable in terms of improving job prospects, this will be Claimant Commitment. Failure to comply with any part of the Claimant Commitment, without good reason, will lead to a benefit sanction.
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/universal_jobmatch_info
Apart from all the other IT problems this enormous website will have it is bound to also attract DoS attacks from every hacker group in the world, in fact I would imagine such groups would risk losing their cyber credibility if they fail to attack it on a regular basis. It could well become the industry standard.
god i hope so, this sounds bloody terrible. i’ve registered, but the letter they gave me looks different to the one in the photo.
A thing not mentioned here about the UJ scheme is that everyone who registers will have their lives and work experiences broken down and assigned an arbitrary score “out of 5” (with 1 being the lowest and 5 being the highest). Jobs which are to be advertised on the UJ system will be assigned with automatic application denials based on whether the candidate meets the required minimum scores or not, thus this means that should a candidate have relevant experience or qualifications but not gained in the specific area of that job (known as “transferable skills” in the biz), their application will be denied without even the possibility of speaking to someone within the company to demonstrate their skills. This kind of thing basically opens another avenue of discrimination with regards to employment in a market place which is already rife with discriminatory practices of all kinds
What is this, some sort of “dating site” “algorithm” whereby if a guy (jobseeker) has a lower income than a girl (employer) he (jobseeker) wont show in her (employers) search results. So if the jobseekers deems you an “invalid” you will be “invisible” to great swathes of employers. Surely, all vacancies should be viewable and open to application by all. This is out and out discrimination and social engineering. Watch the movie!
Gattaca is a 1997 science fiction film written and directed by Andrew Niccol. It stars Ethan Hawke, Uma Thurman and Jude Law with supporting roles played by Loren Dean, Ernest Borgnine, Gore Vidal and Alan Arkin.
The film presents a biopunk vision of a future society driven by liberal eugenics where potential children are selected through preimplantation genetic diagnosis to ensure they possess the best hereditary traits of their parents. A genetic registry database uses biometrics to instantly identify and classify those so created as “valids” while those conceived by traditional means are derisively known as “in-valids”. While genetic discrimination is forbidden by law, in practice it is easy to profile a person’s genotype resulting in the valids qualifying for professional employment while the in-valids—considered more susceptible to disease, educational dysfunction and shorter lifespans—are relegated to menial jobs.
The movie draws on concerns over reproductive technologies which facilitate eugenics, and the possible consequences of such technological developments for society. It also explores the idea of destiny and the ways in which it can and does govern lives.
I hope not, as a disabled person forced back onto JSA through the tribunal system all I have are transferable skills…would I have to spend 35hrs a week applying for jobs I CANNOT apply for? So far I’m avoiding the UJ system as it’s IT problems are making it tantamount to useless
This must be totally Illegal, Iain Duncan Smith has probably broken the law with this stupid idea, and he has to be stopped.
Yes, but how many people who refuse to sign up to it and give the DWP a free reign to snoop at will, will be sanctioned in the meantime. This Universal Jobmatch is a very serious development in IDS’s war on the unemployed and a very big step in making our lives even more impossible.
My Job Coach at the Work Program has told me that I will be sanctioned for failure to sign the declaration as it is going to be mandatory on JCP’s orders.
Either there is a lot of confusion over this at JCP level or UJ being mandatory for those on JSA is actually what Lord Fraud and IDS are demanding.
They must be now getting desperate that the claimant count is not coming down, so they are ramping up the ways they can sanction you off benefits altogether.
I sign on tomorrow, will see what JCP say to me. No doubt another nasty form and threats of more draconian conditions and sanctions. Bet they will be loving dishing out these letters and the abuse they will be likely to be getting.
I will NOT be registering. I will not be spied upon or monitored 24/7 by some DWP gnome. I apply for jobs regularly; I will not be compelled to speak to employers I have not previously agreed to speak with via an application I have made myself.
I am NOT a criminal, and I will notbe treated as such. So f*ck you IDS you nazi c**t.
You need to be very careful, unless you have a good source of money to live on, you will end up losing all your benefits and the JCP adviser will be rubbing their hands together that you have been sanctioned – IDS has us all by the balls now and we have to be sub-servient or face destitution and starvartion. Most of ENgland has no sympathy for us either – just read the Daily Mail to find out what workers think of the Unemployed – they love IDS and want him to be even harsher!
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I signed on this afternoon at my local JCP as normal. I was not told anything in regards to Universal Jobmatch. I am also on the Work Programme.
This is a worrying scheme indeed, job seekers forced to hand over their data protection rights or be faced with sanctions.
Who exactly knows what software they are using to monitor a clients activity, they could well be also gathering information on your other web browsing.
Not to mention, Universal Jobmatch is also in breach of Human Rights Article 8-the right to respect for private and family life, home and correspondence.
I signed on this morning and there was no mention of Universal Jobmatch or any leaflets or anything thing else to do with this in the office.
Many jobcentres are behind, or arent knowing what they are doing – UJ launches next Monday and the first we knew of it on DirectGov/jobseekers was earlier this week, when there was a banner across the top of the screen saying UJ was coming next week – nothing like a lot of notice of such a huge upheaval is there?
My Jobcentre didnt even give us the letters about the updated sanctions regime until a week after it had been implemented last month.
Some Jobcentres will be on the ball, ready and raring to get sanctioning, and others will be slower, I reckon the JCP’s in Tory towns and cities will be the ones to get this up and running the quickest, with Labour towns’ jobcentres being slower as they hate IDS and the Tories as well.
Indeed they are. Up until November 2010 (24th november 2010 was the official date that the scheme was closed down) I worked for Reed in Partnership as an advisor on the DWPs “backing young Britain” scheme (later renamed “the work experience program”). The scheme officially began in march of 2010 and like many work program providers we relied on submissions to be made by the jobcentre for suitable candidates. More often than not, the submissions we received were either A) not informed they were being submitted, B) not actually eligible for the program or C) not willing to participate in the program (I should note that the BYB scheme was entirely voluntary and thus no mandatory forms had to be signed or any formal agreements entered into, however once a candidate agreed to particiapte in the scheme after a BYB advisor had contacted them, there was a level of expectation that they would play ball with us).
After about 3 months had passed, we found that the amount of submissions had almost tailed off, so we embarked on a program of actively contacting jobcentres to find out why we were not receiving submissions from them. The vast majority of jobcentre advisors we spoke to were either A) unaware the scheme existed, B) aware that the scheme existed but had not received any training whatsoever with regards to what the scheme actually was or C) flatly refused to submit anyone (for many varied reasons).
Around the time of the 2010 general election, the jobcentre also claimed that it could not submit anyone to our program due to their position of neutrality as a branch of the UK civil service, however they continued to send submissions to companies such as A4E, Serco, BEST training etc (more than likely because these organisations were classed as “high priority” welfare to work providers, whereas Reed was not in this case), and thus due to the DWP imposed targets for referrals etc, it was easier to send people to A4E etc.
The BYB scheme officially closed in November 2010 due to government cutbacks, despite the fact that the BYB scheme had generated a significant amount of direct employments (based on successfully completed 2 week work experiences and 8 week mini apprenticeships).
Throughout the entire “life” of the BYB scheme, we faced nothing but obstinate refusal and hindrance from DWP employees on all levels, from the JCP advisor right up to government level employees and ministers, and it became fairly obvious, fairly quick that this was down to poor training and understanding of their own welfare to work programs.
Dont forget as well, that many jobcentre staff are worried about their own jobs with the welfare to work industry increasingly being privatised, and they fear that they themselves will be replaced by the private sector, ie, Serco, A4e, Ingeus etc etc.
If everything is to go online and eventually people will be signing on online, with the UJ scheme and the private sector policing jobsearch – Jobcentres will be scaled right back – as they themselves are public sector and the Govt does NOT like the public sector.
There will be many jobsworths at the JCP however that will be difficult with claimants right till the bitter end though and its these nasty idiots with a real chip on their shoulder that we unemployed need to be careful of – especially in staunch Tory strongholds.
I notice that the letter above was from Taunton JCP – which is a Lib Dem town – typical , the Lib Dems are worse than useless and are the ones giving IDS the free reign to rape and pillage the country with his vicious and spiteful “reforms”.
I reckon there will be quite a few pissed off jobcentres that wont play ball with the govt over this, and obstruct the UJ – hopefully my jobcentre might be one of these – I live in Stoke on Trent where there are no jobs, but while our JCP might not be keen on the Tories, the Work Programme provider is as its Serco here and we all know how much they love the Tories. As said, I have already been told that we will have to join UJ by the WP, and they are hellbent on being difficult.
If I want to give my e-mail address to scammers it will be my own choice, I won’t be forced to.
I really have an issue with somebody able to monitor you remotely, to see how much time you spend on the computer. That cannot be legal.
Think about how call centre workers and remote tele-workers are monitored and controlled. I could say more but I don’t want to give these cunts any ideas.
Of course it isn’t legal, but the unemployed have no legal rights it seems. This is just the start, soon the unemployed will be monitored in all aspects of their lives 24/7. Funnily this actually costs them more money than they actually pay out in benefits.
Its not about the money though is it – Its about IDS’s bitter and twisted morals that he wants to preach to the poor and destitute about how they need to improve themselves – he is just like Hitler in so many ways. An evil dictator, preaching evil and performing evil acts.
He has been dying to be evil for years but they rejected him as leader as he was too much of a wanker for even the Tories to stomach, lets just hope G4s are providing the security to guard the worthless louse.
Problem: According to a recent survey commissioned by the Daily Heil hard-working taxpayers are lucky to have a WEEK in a run-down seaside resort once in their lifetime. Meanwhile the BBC’s “flagship” Panorama programme reports that lazy dole-scrounging scum take 52 luxury holidays a year . Reaction: Outrage!! Solution: Government Ministers propose that the unemployed are fitted with some sort of electronic tagging device. The unemployed are now to be fitted with a GPS-satelitte tracking ankle bracelet at their next sign-on appointment.
Your attitude is discgusting . As a care leaver i have been forced at the age of 17 to move out of care and now support myself finacially, yes at times i have had to rely on jsa as I have been given jobs i cant even afford to get to or cant afford to eat for a whole month untill pay day. Luckily I have just found a job that is in walking distance so now i can get to work. yes there are people who scrounge of the system but how dare you imply everyone on benifits are scum ! There are people in this country who needs help who arnt illegal imagrants although our goverment has clearly forgot that
are you on drugs?…. the void is written in the 3rd person… each article is written about something NOT AT YOU!.. All articles provide links to other published material.
Good luck, I hope you get well SOON!
And just to also mention about the holiday comment. . When on benifits I didn’t go on holiday at all intact half the time I couldn’t afford to eat. So yes its luxury living on benifits!!! Tosser.
@Hal,
That was exactly my thought. How much does it cost to put this system into place? But what is worse, I think, is how staff from DWP or Atos is given an disproportionate amount of power in order to abuse people in a vulnerable situation. They are turning “normal” people into monsters.
This system has cost billions and is over budget. Many in the government and other outside bodies have warned Universal credit is not fit for purpose and will fail. This has not stopped them pouring in millions. Job seekers are now treated as criminals, this monitoring system is our ankle bracelet. We are in a depression, unemployed outnumber vacancies 6 to 1, but of course we are to blame for all this.
The one thing that stands out clearly to me about this new form is that it doesn’t contain any legal authority or regulations which are now established in law, such as Jobseekers Allowance (Employment Skills and Enterprise Scheme) Regulations 2011 and it is therefore illegal.
From the looks of this, this piece of paper is NOT an officially sanctioned document published by the DWP. There are reference codes missing from it. There is no indication AT ALL that this is an OFFICIAL DWP document. This could have been knocked up in MS Word in ten minutes flat. I am fairly convinced that this is just some fucking jumped up prat of a line manger trying to act all macho.
Where the hell is the Labour Party in this? Is there no opposition in UK politics anymore? Or is this what Cameron really meant when he said “we are all in this together”…
No, the Labour party is the one that started all this back when Blair was PM. He appointed Lord Fraud to start the process of welfare reform way back then. At present, Liam Byrne is the opposition to IDS and like his twin bald headed brother, Byrne likes what the DWP are doing, and has promised to carry on with Workfare if Labour win the next election. As long as Byrne stays in charge of shadowing IDS, then Labour will not have any opposition to the conditionality of benefits.
The big question is has Ed Milliband got the balls to fuck Byrne off, as Byrne is as Tory as IDS is – he is a traitor to the true Labour party, and one of Blair’s goons.
I have had my CV posted on dozens of on-line job boards, including Monster since April 2010.
In that time, I have attended over fifty interviews each year across the southern half of England.
I have had three short term jobs, miles away which cost as much in travel expenses as my rent.
I have had plenty of phone calls, expressing interest in my CV initially, then, nothing.
No letter, no email, no phone call, nothing.
Employers are frequently ageist or prejudiced, particularly towards older or younger employees.
Often, I have wasted time and money attended all day assessment centre interviews with large companies and have heard nothing back.
The attitude and lack of feedback from employment agencies in particular is shocking.
The whole job seeking and unemployment situation is demeaning and demoralizing as it is.Employers are risk averse and unwilling to train or develop staff, leaving the hindmost to the Devil.
Perhaps the name of the private company running this inhumane cattle market MONSTER will give you an idea of this monstrosity of a database, full of face less CVs without personality or feelings, consigned to a cyber space abyss, to simply be sifted, discounted and filed in the “unemployable file”.
Next stop, slave labour if you don’t find a job on this chain gang to hell.
Then what?
shipped off to China in an empty container?
I feel sorry for DWP staff, I really do.
As for the rust of us rotting on the dole, having to leap through hoops just to survive, its looking like all we can do is take to the streets.
Being nice isn’t working when you are not working.
Employers might well want a few extra staff to ease the burden of administration or peaks in demand.
Yet the world economy has shrunken and squeezed out the old, the slow, the sick, disabled, inexperienced and the poor and un skilled workers its business as usual for banks and businesses, running leaner than ever to get richer than ever.
Humanity is ill and in need of medical attention, specifically, psychiatric attention and soon.
The world has gone mad….
Slave labour is right where we are heading. Mandatory workfare for all those leaving the WP seems to be in the pipeline next year, and no doubt all long-term jobless will be put through some form of workfare.
Of course there is no point to this in terms of getting people into jobs: it’s just punishing the unemployed, and arguing with its inefficiency or financial counterproductiveness is irrelevant. It’s a form of imprisonment ‘in the community’, with forced activity and the computer equivalent of an electronic tag.
Since unemployment is not (as yet) a crime, there is no justification for punishment and measures like this which deliberately inflict hardship on the victims should be challenged on human rights grounds.
Failing that — and of course, in the present malevolent political climate, it probably would fail — people should simply refuse it and survive as best they can, by crime if necessary as long as other poor people aren’t hurt in the process.
When the government is composed of criminals — and who could describe IDS as anything but a depraved sociopath, driven by hatred of the poor? — the law means nothing and citizens are entitled to follow their own morality.
@ Drew:
It’s not the world that’s gone mad – it’s Iain Duncan Smith and the DWP that’s gone mad – total fruit loops infact.
Please bear in mind that a person CANNOT BE FORCED TO SIGN ANYTHING THAT IS DIRECT CONFLICT WITH THE DATA PROTECTION ACT http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/contents
I am sure that’s right – BUT – in this case it’s a bit more complex in so much as the contract we have already signed contains wide generalisations with regard to what could constitute doing everything reasonable to maximise jobs search/accepting any and all offers of help and acting on suggestions from DWP/JCP to fulfil this.
It’s looking as if they have people who’ve already passed 12 months of unemployment over a proverbial barrel: – “Use this system – it’s the one we use and the one we will present you with” … For other claimants of JSA generally the line so far has been “this is optional but your life will become quite difficult very quickly if you don’t opt in to it”. From what I’ve seen in just the past 3 months definitions and conditions to meet requirements for benefit to be paid have become so ever-changing and small-minded that resistance to this will soon backfire – not that I’m not going to try in the meantime but I feel that the battle against it is almost lost before it starts – they hold all the cards (purse strings) and seem to have a way with words …
Is not having the internet at home now a sanctionable offence for the purposes of claiming benefits?
If and I stress if this Universal Jobmatch lark is legal, don’t tell them you have a computer or internet connection.
Go to a library or your Work Programme Provider and open an email account from there, and never access it from your home computer. – simples!
Frankly, your suggestion is absurd. I live in rural North East England. Our nearest library is a round trip of 13 miles and £6.50 for a bus return ticket. Our jobcentre covers a population of about 13000 people, a very large amount being unemployed. Our library has 4 internet terminals. As much as I agree with you in principle, we don’t all live in cities and your suggestion is unworkable.
Question 4 on the Universal Jobmatch FAQ is
Will jobseekers be disadvantaged if they do not have access to the
internet at home?
The answer is
The service will be available from anywhere that the internet can be
accessed, including internet cafes and libraries.
The most important thing is to help jobseekers to get the training they need, to
be confident in using the internet, searching the web and know how to open
an email address, so that they can receive the full benefits of the service. centre
So they have not answered the question really just said that you can access it wherever you can access the internet.
I am not sure that is very helpful especially if you do not have internet access at home which I am pretty sure is not the case for all benefit claimants.
I guess they are all going to have to fork out for internet cafes at more than £1 an hour for this if they are not able to get to a library, or are they advocating piggybacking on people’s wi-fi to be able to apply for jobs?
well, if they intend for people that do not have access to the internet at home to use library internet, then id say its good luck to them enforcing the “35 hours per week” jobsearch caveat, being as that most libraries only allow 1 hours internet use per day, meaning that the maximum anyone will be able to do in a week is 6 hours worth (5 if your local library doesnt open on saturdays). In addition to this, being as many local libraries have been closed down, this further limits peoples access. Finally, my local library, for some reason, actively blocks many jobsearch websites, including the directgov website…hmm
You can do up to 2 hours at my local library but there are some websites that are blocked. Ours is open on Saturday so that still wouldn’t allow for the full 35 hours a week job searching. It would probably cost around £70 a week to do that in an internet cafe which isn’t going to be viable if you are only on £71 a week either.
There are going to be loads of people who are not going to be able to do the full 35 hours a week job search which, if monitored, is going to cause a lot of sanctions but I guess the dwp will view that as success as the claiming count will probably go down if you are sanctioned!
ah, my local library only allows 1 hour, plus £1.50 for each hour thereafter. Their firewall software blocks direct.gov.uk, jobsite.co.uk, indeed.co.uk, mysouthyorkshirejobs.co.uk and a few others whose names i cant recall off the top of my head. In addition, they used to block access to yahoo, hotmail and lycos(rip), so as well as being blocked from jobsearch, you were also blocked from being able to email your CV to any employers…hardly conducive to a good jobsearching experience.
I see what you mean. This is not going to be easy for those people no lucky enough to have or be able to afford the internet is it?
Me local library’s fascist firewall seems to block access to the whole internet!!
Top Tip: Never, ever tell these DWP/provider cunts if you happen to be lucky enough to have internet access at home!!
Oh I never do. I always tells them what they need to know and nothing more.
Exactly. There is no way I’m telling them that, nor my e-mail address. We all have a right to privacy, and Big Brother can go swing in the wind.
yes, but since it is also government policy to cull and close down public libraries, how the hell are people supposed to manage then? IDS assumes that we all have 24 access to the internet in our homes. Shows how much he knows about the people he is here to SERVE.
You should never give up or be obliged or forced to surrender your legal rights it weakens you,simply being on benefits is no justification to to dictate this action through fear of benefit sanctions’.
it looks as if they are attempting to know everything about you but keeping their activity shrouded.
Apparently they are setting up the machines in the job centres to go online to that site..
on my last visit to the jobcentre to sign, the guy told me that after the 19th, the jobpoints would only show vacancies posted before that time, as the end goal is to have them all removed, this, in conjunction with the jobseeker direct service being closed down, is intended to bring all jobsearch functions in to line with the current policy of total adoption of the Universal Jobmatch scheme.
One thing I never understood about such forms, they ask you to sign, and if you refuse they say it is mandatory. So why do they even ask you to sign when it is mandatory?
“Volunteer or be volunteered” is the DWP way nowadays…
People need to realise that this is not about people finding work – this is about making the rules so difficult to follow and the conditionality so impossible, that they can sanction us all.
There will be no excuses and no flexibility, unless you do 35 hours a week of monitored jobsearch you will be sanctioned
Sanctioning is the ultimate goal for IDS – he wants to reduce the claimant count so he looks good and he has now realised that with so few jobs that sanctions are the only way of getting people off JSA.
The welfare state is being wound down – he wants us all to stand on our own 2 feet, just like in America. He doesnt care one iota that people will starve. He has no heart and no soul, he is a merciless robot, hellbent on his own career motives and religious beliefs.
Most people will end up dependant on friends and family for survival following sanctions, but for those that have no-one else, its begging and homelessness I’m afraid – just like in America.
And if you break the law and steal food top survive you will be jailed, at the mercy of Mr Grayling and his private PLC’s like Serco and G4S that will use you as a slave.
Do people get it now – there will soon be no more benefits. This is IDS’s ultimate goal, and he is very nearly reaching it.
I do sometimes wonder if their ultimate aim is as you say to completely remove all benefits and if the sanctions get much tougher then that it is ultimately going to happen.
I also guess that people who are on sanctions are not classified as unemployed which will make the figures look less than they actually are!
Seems like DPAC, the Black Triangle Campaign have now got into bed/joined forces* with the PCS union (who represent the staff who impose sanctions/provide help and support for the unemployed*)
* take your pick
DPAC, Black Triangle Camapign and PCS Joint Statement
Finally, the start of the revolution, this is good news, and is the first important stage in the fightback against the Tyrannical Iain Duncan Smith. Have people finally woken up to what this monster is doing, to the suffering he is putting people through, and the murders he has committed indirectly through his cruel and wicked vendetta against the sick and disabled via ATOS.
Are the birds finally coming home to roost for IDS?
If he is not stopped NOW, we are all screwed. He HAS TO BE STOPPED!!
What a f*****g joke. Do they really think their lame rhetoric fools anyone? Anyone naive to believe they really give a damn deserves the sanctions the members of the PCS impose on jobseekers. If PCS members were really concerned about what’s happening their response would a whole lot more robust than this – but the Trot agenda of the PCS leadership actually probably wants to ‘engineer’ a situation whereby the desperate, rioting masses, (which there eventually will be) can be manipulated as part of some sick attempt at staging a revolution. Things won’t change, as there’ll still be scum on the top, but instead of Tory or Labour scum it’ll be Trot scum.
The more the merrier 🙂
Hail the Great Leader Callinicos 🙂
As it could be deemed JCP have an unfair advantage in pushing people to use their own service, could this not be deemed anti-competition and as such outlawed?
Hello.
I was wondering if this UJ was replacing the current browsable by anybody nature of the directgov jobsearch site. Seemingly it is going to replace it.
What a joke!
What i am wondering is what about those jobseekers who are looking for any work? Work that isn’t on their CV, for example? Isn’t UJ going to restrict peoples job search in that case? I want to browse jobs, not wait for some software to throw up any old shit! And the potential for them to monitor us! Ha! Fuck that too!
It would seem that by not signing the thing you are denying them consent.
I will not be signing it, or going along with it. Fuck ’em.
I am sanctioned till next year and luckily have some support. I am managing to scrimp by on almost nothing. I am absolutely pissed off with it all and I intend to refuse this UJ
So, i will let you know how that goes. I imagine that next time i sign on (for no JSA!) the drone will have these forms ready for people to sign as they drop off their signing on forms. And 95% of them will.
Only the few like us that know what’s going on will refuse. Of course to the JC+etc we are just lazy scroungers etc. No, it’s about what is truly right.
No time to question, just fill it in and hand it back. No chance! Fuck ’em. I’ve had enough. Good thing i’m not greedy or materialistic. Good thing I have a roof over my head and family and friends. Otherwise life would definitely be rather difficult to say the least.
We live in a dictatorship. The poor feel it first. Stay strong people.
“the drone will have these forms ready for people to sign as they drop off their signing on forms. And 95% of them will.”
They are signing up to something to that most of them will end up getting sanctioned from in the first few weeks when the Jobcentre deem that they havent made sufficient use of the UJ to qualify as “actively seeking work”, or havent applied for enough jobs, or spent long enough logged onto UJ actively seeking work through it.
Either way – sign it or not – we will mostly be getting sanctioned. Better start getting pally with mum and dad or a wealthy relative or we will be destitute on the streets.
IDS intends to sanction on a massive scale over this Universal Jobmatch and its draconian “requirements”
There will be fights breaking out in libraries between desperate jobseekers.
Work or die, essentially.
I think that is about the crux of it judging by the current rules at least.
Thats it – in a nutshell! the only other alternative when you get sanctioned is steal or commit crime to survive and end up in jail, where guess what? Grayling will make you work there as well.
So really, its Work, or Work, whichever way, you are gonna work – or you will die from destititution and homelessness.
Thats what IDS wants – now people are beginning to get it.
To work, one needs to get hired. I have been to countless interviews and assessment centres during my unemployment, only to be rejected. Employers are being ridiculous with their requirements these days. The last interview I had was a simple Admin Assistant role within the NHS. There were 30 candidates being interviewed for that one position, majority of them had PhD’s.
Imagine when the courts are full of people who had to turn to crime to survive due to their benefits being stopped. They can only keep a lid on so much, they can only suppress the media so much for so long.
I’m just hoping that soon enough large numbers of the general population are going to look past the propaganda and realise what they are doing to the unemployed and the disabled etc.
It is getting truly too ridiculous for anyone with an shred of decency to not see how disproportionate and unfair this regime is becoming.
Cruel and calculated to cause utmost suffering to the naughty non income tax payers. Have limbs? To work with you, pig dog! Schnell, schnell!
Back in the day the only way your benefit was stopped was if you were found to be a benefit cheat or constantly didn’t turn up to sign etc.
Now, despite there being no jobs they just want to tie us up in knots so we cannot think straight and they want us all to be in fear.
They don’t give a shit about anyone. Working or not! It’s a fucked up system run by fucked up people. I cannot quite believe what i am witnessing.
Its not “they”, its “He” – all this is happening because of one man. One man who refused to be re-shuffled out of the DWP. One man who is hellbent on getting his reforms into reality. One man who is so devoid of any human compassion he is most likened to Adolf Hitler or the Devil re-incarnate.
One man.
Iain Duncan Smith.
I would assume that the majority of benefit claimants would fall foul of the 35 job search requirement. I am lucky to have a computer and internet connection at home, and even I couldn’t imagine sitting here 7 hours a day searching for non existent jobs. I can’t see this system working at all, unless they wish to put 99% of benefit claimants on sanctions. That alone would meltdown the system.
The 35 hour thing isn’t in place yet. Is it? And bollocks to that too as well!.
They will have to explicitly state this requirement in yet another dodgy photocopy of a standard letter before that’s implemented I would guess.
I think my computer will have some technical problems when they finally try to enforce that one. And due to the sanction doubts they no doubt will uphold they are denying the capability to function and pay for any net access, home or external. And I don’t use public computers for personal stuff anyway. My right.
I could use a family members internet for a couple of hours a few times a week, perhaps? That’ll have to do them.
If they don’t like it they can fuck off.
And the sanctions will flow again. It’s grim..
Can someone tell me where one can find a job? The DWP/JC+/WP cunts seem to have no clue. And then want to punish you for their failings.
All rather surreal.
No, not in place yet. They are probably still working out how to monitor us 24/7. On the job front, I don’t have a clue. I have been on the work programme for a year, not one interview from the vacancies they have mandated me to apply for. Unfortunately, I don’t have the right contacts to get a call from Buckingham Palace to get me a job.
The 35 hour rule is due to be a part of the new Universal Credit conditionality, with Universal Credit due for launch next April. The Universal Jobmatch will be part of the Universal Credit regime, but is being launched now so that people get used to it, before the conditions get ramped up to impossible proportions.
The shit will really hit the fan next year – thats if it doesnt blow up in IDS’s vile face before then.
The poor are angry, very angry.
Whats happening with riots across Europe now, will be coming here soon.
It will all be because of IDS when it happens here.
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Read this;
Rights in relation to automated decision-taking.
(1) An individual is entitled at any time, by notice in writing to any data controller, to require the data controller to ensure that no decision taken by or on behalf of the data controller which significantly affects that individual is based solely on the processing by automatic means of personal data in respect of which that individual is the data subject for the purpose of evaluating matters relating to him such as, for example, his performance at work, his creditworthiness, his reliability or his conduct.
So for start, if someone at JCP says ‘Sign this or you will be sanctioned’ Then it might be worthwhile drawing their attention to this part of the Data Protection Act. And UNLESS you are satisfied that the piece of paper being shoved in front of you is 100% OFFICIAL, DO NOT SIGN IT. As an IT person, I can assure you that a form such as the one pictured can be knocked out in ten minutes using ANY word processing package.
Thank you for that – it might help this morning to take your para. 1 along with the letter I’m going to hand over which is asking for clarification in writing to be sent on registering/choosing not to; Agreeing to provide password to JCP staff/choosing not to etc; and alternatives to accessing the jobs they want to ‘highlight/recommend’ via other means than the UJ account. I have already tried saying the above but not in legalise and this might be more effective. My worry is that in the longish-term can it hold up against a ‘system’ which has been put in place to find ways around these rights – there must be ‘get-outs’ (I don’t understand it by any means) which exist within the agreements signed already and held by JCP (to do anything ‘reasonable’ to find a job) – which of these ‘trumps’ the other and would a court have to decide this – in the meantime I will be raising objections as politely as I can ….
The right-wing Daily Mail brigade won’t be satisfied until there is starvation in Britain.
When people first start starving to death due to the benefit “reforms” and lack of jobs, the right-wingers will say: “obviously people starving to death is unfortunate, especially when it’s children, but if you compare the number of people starving to death in this country, with the number of people starving to death in developing countries, you’ll see that it is substantially less. Out of a country of 60 million, a few thousand people starving to death is actually quite a low percentage of the population, so we’re doing quite well on starvation”.
Then as the amount of people starving to death increases, they will say: “charities gave them all the help they needed, but unfortunately they were completely feckless, preferring to spend the money they were so kindly given, on booze and fags, rather than on food for themselves and their kids, so that’s why they starved to death. There’s really not a lot you can do to help people like that”.
The Daily Mail brigade will also say “They were obviously so parasitic, lazy and workshy, they preferred to starve to death, rather then get of their lazy backsides and get a job, so they deserved to die”, “the country is overpopulated, so it’s probably for the best that they are gone. It will ease pressure on resources.” “Due to these straightened economic times, we just can’t afford to continue to subsidize the unproductive anymore” and “it was a political move, they starved themselves to death on purpose just to make the government look bad”.
The thing is it isn’t those in work who subsidise those out of work. The reverse is true. I could cut unemployment to zero overnight. Cut the working hours, and correspondingly, the pay, of those in work and share out those hours and pay among those out of work. Voila! No more unemployment. Now how many of the ‘Daily Mail Brigade’ would go for that proposal? Very few, they don’t want to give up any of ‘their’ share of the national wealth.
Very little work adds wealth to the economy, what it does do is circulate that wealth around. With increasing automation and mechanisation, along with the decline of the mass employment industries we used to have, work no longer functions as a satisfactory way of circulating wealth throughout the entire economy. We are a wealthy nation, we have more than enough wealth to ensure everyone of our citizens has a decent standard of living. Unfortunately we have an economic system which is still based on labour as one of the three factors of production of classical economic theory and has not taken into account that much economic activity now requires very little, or even no, employment of labour. As a result, the inequalities between the wealthiest and the poorest sectors of society grows ever wider.
Instead of seeing this and taking a lead in changing thinking the politicians bow to the narrow self interest of a small sector of society. Unfortunately we have a political system which means government are not decided by the mass vote but by the votes of a small number of voters in marginal seats. The government which gets elected depends on whether Labour can make its policies sufficiently right wing to attract the votes of enough of the ‘Daily Mail Brigade’.or whether the Conservatives can make their policies even more right wing to get them back.
So all potential “employers” have to provide is a post code & a phone number.Will the DWP actually check that these are genuine.? This is a system that’s just asking to be abused.
Good point Kittycat58. Will the DWP check it’s genuine? I doubt it.
Check as genuine in the same way the Jobcentre checks as geniune all those bogus, fake, scam and ads for “money mules” that litter the JCP “jobs database”. Imagine being “mandated” to send your personal and private details to Colonel Wilfred Fucker (Retired) at the Bank of Nigeria. The only reason for registering for Universal Jobmatch is if you want your identity stolen or Wonga loans taken out in your name!
My son who has been claiming since the 4th of October but have not received a penny yet, because of a shambles at the jobcenter, received today by post all the confidential data and records of benefit claims from somebody else. Wrong name, wrong NI number, etc.
What is going on?
Anita Bellows:
Sounds like Iain Duncan Smith’s system is beginning to crash, lets all hope this crash is embeded in the mainframe at the DWP, if it is it will systematically work it’s way throughout all the Jobcentres computer systems.
I am in the wrag group of Esa and have received a letter to say I must attend and take part in work-focused interviews even though I have agorophobia , it goes on to state I may have to carry out work-related activities an adviser thinks will help me get back to work, all under threat of penalty of sanction of firstly £14.07pw rising to £28.15 after 4 weeks until I comply. After the 3rd December it says I could lose more money i.e. personal allowance or pip which I use for accompanied travel if I need to go to doctors or dentist etc and this sanction could be more prolonged, and I will still be expected to do the work related activity without any travel allowance and reduced benefit.. This is even before housing benefit and council benefit withdrawals come into play – the person that has signed this from job centre plus should be ashamed of the job she does.
Guy Fawkes:
I wouldn’t worry to much about this, all a work based interview means is they’ll ask you what kind of work your looking for, how many hours a eek you can work etc. (very basic stuff) and as for the work related activites part all this means is they will give you a ES4JP this is a job search log you’ll need to record your efforts of jobsearch. Also they will give you a jobseekers agreement form with the steps you have agreed with them to do regarding finding a job. That’s it – simples!
Nothing to worry about, everyone who claims JSA has had to do this.
Thanks for your advice obi wan Kenobi but I think you miss the point,unless they provide me with work from home I cannot work due to my condition.
At least you can get help being on benefits, I was pushed at the age of 57 by my company to take what they call ‘voluntary early retirement’ or take whatever job within the company they wanted to give me.
This early retirement put me just £7 a week over being able to claim jobseekers or any other benefit. This meant that the job centre would not help me at all in finding another job plus I had no housing relief, or any other benefit that is included when on jobseekers whilst those on benefit was given retraining for other trades, help with CVs & interviews even to giving the paper & stamps, bus fares for them to go to interviews.
I actually ended up because of my age on leaving an office job to taking a cleaning job for 8 years untill I was eligible for the state pension.
So take the backing of the centre, these days one cannot pick & choose but go for what is available.
*
Went to my Jobcentre in Stoke today – asked about thise letter from Taunton JCP, and the universal Jobmatch and the sanctiions – she looked at me as if I was stupid – “we dont know anything about that” she said. I said well the UJ is starting next week – when will we be forced to jobsearch for 35 hours a week with threats of sanction for non compliance, she said “we dont know anything about that”.
Well I said, what about some information about the universal jobmatch as it starts next week, like how to use it and log on etc and the requirements, she said, …….”We dont know anything about that” – “sign here as there are people waiting thank you”
So I said, well apparently you are to be having the jobpoints removed and computers installed to use UJ on, when will that be happening, she said, “we dont know anything about that”.
So I said “Do you actually know ANYTHING about the UJ and the sanctions for non compliance that other jobcentres are threatening?” she said – well you guessed it – “We have no information about that at the moment – sign here please, as we are very busy, and here is your jobssearch log sheet for next fortnight”.
Seems that either they know nothing, or they know exactly whats happening but are refusing to let anything on.
So I said “will just have to see what happens on Monday then when I go to the Work porgram provider, and she said, “Yes, I’m sure they will be able to advise you”
Wonderful isnt it?
I signed on today and was told to register for Government Gateway (which includes Universal Jobmatch). I was told it was compulsory and when i showed my Advisor the printout saying it wasn’t, she told me she was making it a Mandatory Activity that I registered. She then booked me another appointment on Friday to make sure I’ve registered and asked me to bring in my CV. Any advice?
What jobcentre was this? is it in a Tory constituency? Seems some jobcentres are way ahead of others. Are you on the work programme yet?
A question on DWP website regarding frequently asked questions about Universal Jobmatch has disappeared, http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/universal-jobmatch-faqs.
“Q13 – Will claims to benefit be affected by this service?
No, this is a job posting and matching service, which is open to everyone, not just benefit claimants and is not connected to any claims.”
8/8/2012
In the updated version 12/10/2012, this question and answer has completely disappeared. This question is referred to in a draft letter to the jobcentre regarding UJ by http://www.consent.me.uk/letters/universaljobmatch/
ffs, when you enrol on your first service on “governmnent gateway” the cheeky fuckers even send you a fucking ID card through the post
The quiet sociopath feels a ravenous desire to torment, torture, humiliate and destroy the unemployed, sick, disabled, vulnerable and disadvantaged, because of the rage and humiliation that still burns in his heart about his pathetic, pitiful and laughable performance as Tory party leader. Duncan Smith needs ever increasing doses of human misery and despair to satisfy his insatiable lust for human suffering and destruction.
35 hours a week searching for jobs that don’t exist would leave the untermensch two days off to recuperate from being psychologically tortured and humiliated. That would mean whole days where the untermensch were not being psychologically tortured and humiliated.
The thought of the untermensch’s minds having a break from looking at the same jobs over and over again and applying to the same companies for the same jobs over and over again, would enrage Duncan Smith. It would make him feel sick to his stomach.
I can’t see him leaving it at just 35 hours a week for long. I wonder how long it will be before it gets increased to 49 hours a week? After all, lazy, feckless, workshy, benefit scrounging scum don’t deserve weekends off do they, since they don’t go to work during the week.
Butteo:
Did she give you a letter stating what she had said to you and did it include the Jobseekers Allowance (Employment Skills and Enterprise Scheme) Regulations 2011? if she didn’t and only gave you a verbal instruction to do what she asked then that’s UNENFORCABLE and ILLEGAL, next time you sign on with her you need to tell her that any instruction has to be in the form of an offical document that’s approved by the DWP and she has to sign and date this – if you have any issues after that you need to get her name and call a manager over in front of her – she’ll soon clam up and probably loose her job too.
You can use the Universal Job Match WITHOUT creating an account, but will only be able to job search. See the last section of DWP leaflet: UJINS 11/12. http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/universal-jobmatch-guide.pdf
Beat me to it 🙂
From the JCP “how to” on Universal Jobmatch
“If you want to do a jobsearch using Universal Jobmatch but do not want to create a Universal Jobmatch account yet
You can carry out a general jobsearch using Universal Jobmatch without creating an account. This will only allow you to search for jobs. You will not be able to apply for a job without creating an account.”
So, nobody will be able to apply for a job on Universal Jobmatch without registering for an account. It is not like you could say to a JCP “advisor”: “Yeah, I am OK with just searching for jobs, am not bothered that I can’t apply for them” – instant sanction. This is going to be MANDATORY!
If you give the JCP (and by extension the “work programme” providers) permission to access your account you are effectively screwed. The JCP/Provider can add a “vacancy” to your account which you MUST apply for: “Failing to apply for a notified vacancy” is a “higher level sanction” attracting first a 13 week, then 26 week, then 156 week (3 year sanction). And once you sign it you’ve signed it. Don’t be bullied into signing it – think of the potentially very severe consequences you are setting yourself up for!
You won’t be able to apply for a job through their UJ system if you don’t have an account? – RUBBISH – you can still apply for any job in the conventional way, employers will still advertise online and newspapers, you can also ring firms as they are all in the yellow pages and visit firms to see if they have any vacancies and also send speculative letters, if you ask me this UJ crap is a big load of crap that is going to cost the taxpayers a buttload of money and is not needed at all..
Exactly, any job advertised on Universal Jobmatch is going to be advertised in umpteen different places. Just say NO!
Can’t wait to get started on my CV(s)! 🙂
It Is your absolute right under the Data Protection Act to refuse “consent”. ”Universal Jobmatch” is just a ruse to spy on your jobsearch and let jobcentre/provider desk jockeys (whoops, I mean “advisors”) find every excuse under the sun to sanction you. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! !
G Kent smith
If your comments were addressed to me and I assume you are male given that you did not receive your statutory pension until you were 65, for women it is or should I say was 60. I am 58 years old myself and am on sickness benefit not unemployment benefit. You yourself should have been entitled to non-income based unemployment benefit when you first took early retirement and housing benefit is income based, so if you were having to pay for your housing it was because you were considered to have enough income from your retirement to cover housing costs. Those of us on benefits used to be deemed eligible for full housing and council tax benefit because of the low benefit levels but are now being told that we have to start paying out of reduced benefits, rent for extra rooms or move and contribute next year to council tax also due to reductions in this benefit from central government – If you are happy to take a cleaning job that is nothing to do with others on benefits.
Universal Jobmatch is to replace the current LMS (Labour Market System) that is available via gov.uk, jobseeker direct and the job points.
Eventually all jobseekers will be required to have a Universal Jobmatch account as part of their claim!
I attended a local JCP today and was told that I would be sanctioned if I did not participate. I have only recently started claiming and signed twice. Also mentioned that I would have to give them access or print out all the data from the site to show them. Was also told from next year you would be expected to job hunt for 35 hours a week.
Personally I don’t think there is any need for this. The direct.gov was redone under Gordon Brown I’m sure and I think the current job site would go down better with a few more tweaks.
What needs looked at is the stupid job points that think the other end of the country is local.
Universal Jobmatch is all part of the customer actively showing what job search has been completed as per the contract (Job seekers agreement) and working toward the whole actively seeking for 35 hours per week!
The exact details about the 35 hours per week job search haven’t been released but it is a waiting game, it all falls in with universal job match and universal credit.
The universal jobmatch will log activities that you take for jobseeking and it will be for the customer to prove what they have done not just be able to say I’ve searched onine used the local papers phonied agencies etc, and with the new universal jobmatch it will show if you have met every step ofyour jobseekers agreement so if you are required to complete certain activities (contact agencies daily, search universal job match daily, contact 3 employers per week and search local papers on job supplement day) but you miss one element (e.g you contact one employer) then it has to be an automatic referral to DMA the signing team or advisers are not allowed any discretion
I don’t recall saying the 35 hours is in place now only that it is due to be implemented at some point in the future and this is all in preparation for it. Unfortunately I don’t write the legislation sorry
Iain Duncan Smith:
He’ll have to go!!!
It isn’t mandatory yet as the system hasn’t rolled out but I would say that by next year all new claim will have to sign up by their diagnostic appointment or they will receive a direction to do it and then existing claims will be required to sign up by an agreed date again if it isn’t done by that date then a direction will be issued so yes it will become mandatory as part of the conditions for claim JSA.
The Jobseekers Agreement has been revised to include the new Universal Jobmatch from this month so the Job Seekers Agreement that is updated will include the Universal Jobmatch.
Diagnostic appointment? What kind of bollocks is that? Are you really a JCP advisor or a troll?
Butteo:
I think what other’s have said is right in answer to whether you have to go & start registering on this site. I signed on today too (took in a letter asking for clearer information in writing on what happen should someone not decide to register on the UJ site and what does the site allow JCP staff to do etc.). What was said to me was the opposite to what you have been told (Iwonder what makes the information so different – length of time been unemployed so far maybe and/or different adviser’s interpretation of their new system?). So the advice to me was “Some people do have concerns perhaps to do with the use of Cookies on the site & etc. So we would then look at other ways to forward job information to you if you didn’t register on UJ”. (manually for eg. – the way it’s done now). Seemed completely relaxed about it being ‘my decision.
When I asked could she spell out what other things might result from not registering she said “It’s early days; we don’t know how many people will sign up to this yet but it might just mean seeing you more regularly.” I think the hope is that the majority of people are lead to believe there’s no option and that way they will ‘capture’ the vast majority. Perhaps if enough people raise ‘concerns’ and don’t register (there are lots to raise with the set-up as everyone has been saying – even without going into why it would be wrong at a personal) it won’t be able to run as intended?
There were some leaflets – one just a printed A4 page full of glowing praise and saying that anyone using UJ will very soon find a great job. The other was a flyer with a picture of a football (!) advertising a ‘JobMATCH’ event on SATURDAY (24th) at the Jobcentre enticing people in to hear all about ‘Saturday’s big match!’. At this point I have to stop to go & throw up.
“it might just mean seeing you more regularly” – sounds like a threat!
It completely is a threat. But the threat was minimised to not sound too bad – we had a very friendly conversation today – I think my adviser is half-way human – not sure how long she can stay that way though. Going to JCP more often would be a waste of my time but it’s not the same as losing money – they would pay the fares for any extra visits (allegedly) …
You can be referred for a sanction if you fail to apply for a vacancy that is matched through your adviser so exactly the same as now.
… and the use of the word “Essential” on the flyer in front of “Universal Jobmatch Information” – is really dodgy. It can be read in different ways – some people will take it literally (is the hope) – “it’s essential – it must be something I really should go & do/get”. Or the way they are using it in reality: “We are billing it as ‘essential’ because we would like you to fall in with it, but it’s only essential if you believe it is”: ‘Essential’ doesn’t equal ‘required by law’. But, trying to make it sound desirable is an easier way to get (?lots/some) people to sleepwalk into something which is anything but desirable and (at this time) not an enforceable requirement. Once it’s up & running on Monday, though, I’m sure it’s only a few more steps to getting people onto it anyway – because it’s there & it exists as “the system”. I hate to say it but it was easier to get people to go voluntarily on to the trains to the death camps than to use force in the first instance – it meant less work in rounding up and forcing the much smaller numbers of people who tried to resist in any way. Not a good comparison to be making but there are too many echoes to ignore – if it looks like persecution and it feels like persecution then ….
The monster job website was always crap,I used it only a few times.It was clunky,the job matches were abysmal,it made the direct gov website look like it was designed by Apple.If this is being used as the core of UJ expect meltdowns and regular visits by Anonymous.
@Flumps (JCP Advisor)
How is the system going to monitor if a client calls an agency?
How is it going to monitor if a client contacts an employer by post or email?
How is going to monitor clients who apply to jobs by post or use sites other than Gov.uk to jobsearch?
Finally how exactly is it 35 hour week job search going to be monitored? clients clicking away for 35 hours?
All in all ridiculous.
You will be expected to log all calls and any other activity on your UJ account.
You might think it it all ridiculous, but I can safely say that it WILL be coming.
IDS, SofS for Work and Pensions, has said that there will be no option to sit at home and do nothing from next year – You will have a full time job, and that will be to find work.
Those who dont like this will either have to sign off, or flout the 35 hour rule and get sanctioned.
Gosh, now I understand what my son is facing when he goes to the job centre. Mean people like you who believe that being unemployed is a choice of life. The problem is you are also incompetent. As I was saying earlier, my son received by post from a job centre all the tax and benefit records of somebody else, reams of confidential data, and when he called the job centre about it, somebody told him it was because all the data is on the same computer. Well that makes it allright then !!
You have been given a tiny bit of power and you are abusing it against people who are not in a position to defend themselves. That is despicable.
Like “9am, foned Abacus the Abbatoir (no jobs)… 5pm, phoned Zebedee the Zoo (no jobs)? When you next meet IDS, tell him he is a cunt!
All job-seeking activity will have to be done through Iain Duncan Schmidt’s “portal”.
I can see this leading to arrests of JCP staff for trying to coherse people into signing the UJ forms to negate the Data Protection Act 1998. – Lots of fun to be had here when you inform the JCP advisor they are attempting to break the law and you are now to phone and get the police to come to the JCP office to speak to that adviser.
As flumps has mentioned, we the unemployed have no legal rights. I am a maths graduate who can’t find employment in this economy. I feel sorry for those not in the best of health or lack qualifications. Doom ahead.
There will be no arrests of JCP staff, as Chris Grayling is now the Minister in charge of Justice and therefore, the police.
Chris Grayling was one of the pioneers of the Welfare Reform Act, and will do everything in his power to ensure that clients comply with the requirements of Universal Jobmatch and Universal Credit.
There will be no way round your responsibilities, and if the law prevents clients from doing as they are told, then Mr Grayling in his official capacity as Justice Secretary and Lord Justice will likely attempt to pass changes to the Data Protection Act to ensure compliance with IDS’s Universal Credit requirements.
Trying to be obstructive on a legal technicality will get clients nowhere, as JCP have ways and means of making you do what we tell you to do, and also have the power to make a claimant’s life very difficult indeed for not complying with their demands.
Hahahaha you are hilarious! you make it sound as if you are a MI5 agent. You must be ribbing us, good one!
Actually you are economical with the truth, because if somebody refuses to register with Jobmatch, it is at the advisor’s discretion that he or she should be sanctioned. I have all the documents proving this, so your rambles about Chris Grayling infinite power do not absolve you from the fact that if a claimant is sanctioned, it is because it is your choice.
lol, you were doing well till this post. come on now, misinformation doesn’t help anyone.
Lol – sounds like a real JCP advisor though doesnt it, and its all true – this is what is gonna be facing us all next year – people need to be wise to this as its all very serious
You have not responded to what I said. Do you have or not the discretion of sanctioning people? It is just a yes or a no, can’t be difficult.
I have never come across one that mean. I wink and a nod usually has them giggling.
Sorry Johnny, I saw the earlier post by Flumps the JCP Adviser and thought I’d have a bit of a banter cos this is such a bad subject. I know what is coming and wanted to have a bit of mickey take against the real JCP adviser earlier by changing my posting name – my couloured square should have given the gag away.
Dont even know if the original Flumps is a real JCP adviser, but what he said is true, as I have actually read the UC regulations and the 35 hours rule is deadly serious
My WP provider has said that we will probably be made to do what was originally the New Deal next year which does involve 35 hours a week spent at their premises doing jobsearching tasks.
no problem, made me chuckle
the situation seems to be reports from around the place of different jobcentres and WP providers all saying different things. I suspect they’ve only recently decided that Universal Jobmatch could be used to meet the 35 hour a week conditionality and thats why everyone’s reporting being told different things
That won’t be possible, my WP provider has 1000 clients. 1000 clients coming in every single day to use the 10 computers? lol
Maths for the terminally dense:
1000 claimants and 10 computers. Each claimant to do 35 hours jobsearch a week.
IDS had no brain to compute this problem so we got him a cut-price brain transplant with Baldrick’s brain.
IDS (with Baldrick’s brain): “I have a cunning plan! Cut up the 10 computers and share out the bits among the 1000 claimants…”
Only bettered by the original Baldrick’s cunning plan: “we wait till they cut our heads off, then we run away…”
I think we’ve found our first guard to the trains that will be deporting us kids…
why don’t you just shut the fuck up, you sound like that 5ft 3″ twat our grandfathers died fighting… you need suspending by the ankles and having some sense whipped into you….
You’re a twat
What about those who do not have internet at home. How are they supposed to log calls etc, and carry out 35 hours of job search a week?
Like the majority of JSA claimants, I receive £70 a week, I can not afford a broadband connection, and a dedicated landline to make calls whenever I like.
I will have a full time job from next year? hopefully it pays more than £2 an hour.
There will be no exceptions to the rules. Failure to comply with the claimant commitment which you will be made to sign, and which will detail the fact that claimants are expected to perform 35 hours of jobsearching activity, will result in higher level santion being applied for a fist offence.
IDS has set out the rules in the Universal Credit regulations 2012 and these rules must be adhered to. Excuses will not be tolerated.
Those on the work programme will be expected to attend at their provider’s premises to perform their allocated 35 hours per week of mandatory jobseeking activity, which can consist of speculative calls to employers, composing spec letters and applying for a set number of vacancies via Univeral Jobmatch.
The 35 hours rule is not here yet. It will be coming next year when the Universal credit is rolled out from next April. In the ,meantime, clients will be expected to acquaint themselves with the new Universal Jobmatch system which will be the new way that vacancies will be advertised through the JCP network.
I am not allowed to attend my providers premises for more than 1 hour a day. They have over 1000 clients, and only 10 computers. More often then not I have to wait around till a computer comes free.
I am a maths graduate, I apply to job via sites specialising in my field.
Where I attend, there are not that many clients and its a massive office building with loads of unused space, so they are able to expand the offices to incorporate banks of phones and computers to accomodate the users.
I know the jobcentre where I sign today said they hadnt got a clue about UJ and they are not requesting it be mandatory – yet.
Different jobcentres are progressing at different speeds and it could be that some are being used as pilots to test how the UJ is going down.
The implications of this are very serious and a means to get hundreds of thousands of claimants sanctioned.
IDS has no morals – and he is a total dictator who is as compassionate as a Dalek.
Harsh on Daleks.
What about that gorgeus young lady who got turned into a Dalek – very hot and she’s back in the christmas Dr Who this year, but not as a Dalek – so keep your eyes open for her.
Thats if we’ve all not been sanctioned by then and kicked out onto the streets.
I’m thinking of the old series of Daleks from the 70’s and 80’s – dont you think that IDS and Davros look remarkably similar?
I am thinking of Karen Gillan 🙂
Well as my WP has a new adviser every month and then they have to have 2 weeks away from doing the WP catching up on the paperwork, I am not sure how we will be able to do the 35 hours per week.
At my Work Programme Private Providers office they only have a safe capacity for the amount of people being in the building at any one time (including the advisers) of around 100 to 110 people, so can anyone please explain to me how they are going to fit around 6,000 people in to do jobsearch for 35 hours a week- not a hope in hell – I feel a phone call to The Health and Safety Executive coming on.
Most WPPs haven’t got a toilet except the one for the staff. They don’t let you use it even if you’re a)there all day b)expected to drink their drinks c)disabled d)desperate. So how would they accommodate 6000 sweaty (and often unable to afford hot water to wash at home) jobseekers all needing the toilet? If they don’t let you leave, or use the toilet, what if the jobseekers went to the toilet on the floor of the office? The WP I attend is transferring me upstairs: in a building originally and previously for disabled people, which has never had disabled access! Wheelchair users are being ‘mandated’ to change to the upstairs room! There is nothing to get up the stairs, indoors some square spiral stairs and outdoors a rickety fire escape.
I’m disabled but can go up the stairs though after the 1 hour walk to the WP I am knackered. It is an hour back after the WP tell me to leave which can be 5 or 20 minutes or 2-3 hours later, no idea each time how long I’ll be there. If they only see me for minutes, I’ve had no rest to get ready for another hour of walking all the way back again.
There ought to be a lot of unemployed torturers from Libya and Egypt, they could apply for jobs at WP’s or Jobc*ntres.
Some WPs don’t give you access to drinking water to take medicine!
The machines and chairs in the office upstairs mostly are broken.
The worst days are being there all day and drinking nothing but still needing the toilet, then leaving at 5pm cold/hungry/thirsty/weak and exhausted, desperate for toilets but facing a dark cold hour of walking before there is a toilet. Chairs: uncomfortable to sit in all day. If it is your workplace you are probably breaking health and safety by sitting in the wrong kind of chair. But we are not employees so apparently it does not apply no matter how bad your back is. Jobsearch Q: Universal Jobmatch: WHAT IF YOU ARE BLIND? What if you are likely to have a major seizure from longterm staring at computer screens? or is that “Making yourself ill deliberately by complying with rules to stop yourself being sanctioned, so you will be sanctioned!” If you’re blind: “Grow some proper eyes and stop whining, I’m Ian Duncan Smith and my pet fish from sellafield has 17 eyes!”
Up the fire escape I asked the WP staff how are people in wheelchairs meant to get up here? and he could not answer.
I notice that I did not have any response yet to my question.
Anita – I was playing Flumps the Jobcentre Adviser in later posts – in mockery of the original guy that was doing it earlier, as I think he could have been a real one. The later posts with the purple square next to them are mine, but what I said is what is likely to happen – you know as well as I do that JCP advisers are very jobsworth and inflexible.
I myself am a signee and long term unemployed, I am trying to drag it out of my local Jobcentre, I asked today when I signed on, but they are remining tight lipped.
It seems to be more the work programme providers that are gonna push the requirements to sign up to the UJ scheme, and they know they will have to enforce the 35 hours rule next year on behalf of JCP.
The way I see it, is that in the end, Jobcentre plus will be made defunct and all its activities will be passed to the private sector to companies that run the work programme – this is also the way my work programme provider feels – we shall see how that pans out – and it could be that those who sanctioned us up till now, could soon be joining us in the dole queue.
That would be quite the sight. Quite a few of the ‘advisers’ at my local WP provider have lost their jobs, they are also now on the other side of the table.
There are so many ways that all this could pan out – but I think we can all agree that the processes of signing on and jobseeking are all going online, and what do JCP do now apart from sanction you and take signings?
I think we will all be transferred eventually to Work Programme providers from day 1 of a claim, which will be made online, and the state will only pay them by results. As many people will fail to comply with the 35 hours rule, there will be fewer claimants for the Providers to deal with – who knows – maybe even the WP providers will be given the chop as well as the JCP, and it will all be done online and over the phone? Universal Jobmatch will have the technology to raise sanctions for itself by monitoring claimants to ensure compliance. Can you see where this is leading now?
JCP is a huge behemoth of an organisation, inefficient and old fashioned, itis a relic of old times, and now IDS wants it all to be privatised – Monster runs the new UJ service, and no reason why they cant police claims as well.
JCP+, Work Programme providers, and even the JCP “decision makers” are all inevitably for the chop – they are all on borrowed time. A bank of Cray super-computers somewhere in the “cloud” will do all the processing, policing and sanctioning: “Computer says NO!”
Do you really think JCP+ will be around in say 100 years?
Universal Jobmatch will have the technology to raise sanctions for itself by monitoring claimants to ensure compliance. Can you see where this is leading now?
A computer having the power of life and death over us? That’s just fucking great!
I’ve been telling JCP staff (who have let’s say been less than friendly) they could soon be on our side of the fence – and that we have very long memory’s – and you know the implications of that – EXTERMINATE!!!
You had me fooled. I Hate IDS. 🙂
Maybe so – but it was a bit of humour to make it seem over the top – I have been following all this for a long time. I watched the bastards lie through their teeth in the commons and the Lords to get this Welfare reform act through parliament, and I knew months back that this was going to have SERIOUS bad consequences for us.
The 35 hours of jobseeking a week rule is dead serious and IS what is planned – IDS has said so himself, and its in the UC regulations 2012.
Its all geared around making clients lives a misery so that they will “get a job”
I personally can see 90% of JSA claimants getting sanctioned in the first few weeks of the 35 hours rule going live. People just dont do that much jobsearch a week. The rule is such lunacy, that it just cant succeed and there will be a huge outcry over it.
I dont mind it all going online, changing with the times and all that, but this 35 hours a week rule is what really just defies common sense.
I can see them having to U turn on it – but we will stilll have to register online with UJ – I cant see that being changed.
DOnt forget as well that for those of us that complete 2 years on the WP next June (myslef included) we will have to do community service instead, with only 10 hours a week of jobseeking made mandatory on top of 30 hours a week community service.
I really can see JCP going though, and I think they can too, which is why many JCP’s are not refering as many people to the WP fearing that the WP will replace them. We’ll see…..
Well, you were just as believable as a JC adviser could be. Somehow I thought you were even more believable.
Which should not deter us from the point I was trying to make. The failure to register can be only sanctioned if the adviser uses his discretion to do so. IDS or Chris Grayling, however bad they are rely on job center staff to implement their policy. If they don’t the whole system fall apart.
One question to be asked, is whether job center staff are working to targets and whether these targets include getting people off benefits.
I know they used to – I dont know about now. There was a big stink blown up over it a while back about targets for sanctions.
The facts were that in 2009-2010 there were about 135,000 claimants sanctioned, but in 2010-2011, that had increased to over 500,000 claimants sanctioned.
The Tories have got a much tougher stance on sanctions, with the UC regulations 2012 containing page after page about sanctions and reasons they can be applied.
I claimed for jsa in may 13 told to apply for ten job per week…please sign this….then at my signing appt yest. (June 13) suddenly…without prior notification im told “u are expected to spend at least 35hpw looking for work” but yet my agreement stated “I agree to look for min of ten jobs per week”. Unfortunately for the advisor in question I am one of these people who apply for more than 25 jobs per week. When I go back in next week…because I have had 4 weeks of looking for jobs im qualified to do I now have to look at shop work etc. Tried explaining I already am…but because I am over qualified, these employers dont even want to interview me because they know that as soon as I get a job im qualified for ill be out of there…so jobcentre and dwp are ensuring that employers and myself are just merely wasting our time and the taxpayers money. But IDS and his cronies canmot lift their heads from the trough long ebough to work that one out….its long been known that over qualified people are not hired for menial jobs. Worked for 15 yeara til got ill last year. Have borderline personality disorder but id rather take my chances at being fired becauee I cant control my temper than be seen as a scrounger. ..let me apply for jobs I know and employers know I am qualified and able to do…this leaves more jobs for people who are in fact more suited. But common sense goes put the door when u become an MP and once your expenses hit your pay packet and your noses hit the trough. Honourable member of parliament? ?? Dishonourable ass kissers more likely.
I would check the buildings health and safety notice as that sounds totally illegal what they are doing.
I would also check these items on the health and safety website :
disabled access :
http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/disaccess.htm
working time regulations :
http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/workingtime.htm
how many toilets should be in the building :
http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/toilets.htm
vdu breaks :
http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/vdubreaks.htm
I think your WP has broken at least 3 of those.
Try and get as much evidence as possible.
I think all this may have something to do with doing away with the minimum wage law, the tories have been talking about this for awhile, they could be setting up a system so that people can start to undercut each other and people already in work, they are after all making it easier to sack people with no reason given. As they say “watch this space”.
Time to start buying a shedload of lotto tickets and hope you win a few million because short of that or dying, your gonna be locked into Unversal Jobmatch and The Work Programme, oh and The Community Action Programme for life.
I hope not, I am only 25. Don’t want 50 years of this!
Can you imagine if when you do die, it turns out there’s a Work Programme, 35 hour a week jobsearches and workfare in the afterlife too waiting for you?
IDS with horns and pitchfork? that really would be Hell.
It will be exactly that 4 IDS. Karma
… in a small room – a bathroom, if you will – blackened by smoke, with spiders in every corner, and only 1 computer between all of the Dead, suppose that to be Eternity!
Probably the only way out of this is self employment , seriously thinking of this if I do not get a proper job by next april.
Tried that went self employed for six months after being out of work for six months opened a shop only to be penalised by local council for putting my wares outside my shop on a pavement 20 feet wide
saying my display was obstructing the pavement.
Redcar and cleveland council have a lot to answer for now due to their stupid policies unemployed again and in even more debt.
My apologies, I Hate IDS, you made it appear very plausible!
Kittycat – the earlier posts witjh the grey square were from the real JCP adviser – I only impersonated him on those posts with the purple square next to them. What he said though – much of it is what is technically planned – severe as it sounds, its all part of IDS’s mad plans to crucify the unemployed.
lol the only real way to tell is to look at the colour of the square.
Ah, so the writer of the comment which I suggested was bollocks, was the real JCP advisor , tee,hee!
I Hate IDS has a knack for it it seems. Could see him behind a JCP desk somewhere near you soon.
I have 4 years experience as a claimant of JCP so I know a fair bit about how their minds work, and yes, I have been sanctioned by them as well in the past. So far, I havent been broken, and I will try to resist them as much as I can, but there is only so far you can push them before a sanction is issued. I have learnt to comply withmost things – they like to hear the “yes sir no sir 3 bags full sir” patter – you know how it is lol
My latest warning of sanctions was for: “Applying for too many jobs”!
Yes, something survived, it is possible to overdo it 🙂 You can’t win with these fuckers!
how can you apply for too many jobs and still be threatened with a sanction? – what did they say to even justify this?
I am confused about this.
How many jobs did you apply for?
No, what will happen though is in 2015 when the Coalition government get kicked out at the next general election, Labour will win and become our government again.
Now what you have to remember at this point is that sucessive governments love tit for tat – what I mean by that is the Coalition kicked out the New Deal Programme so Labour once in power will kick out The Work Programme, Universal Jobmatch and the Community Action Programme, and only god knows what they will replace it with.
DOnt celebrate too early – Liam Byrne is just as much the bastard that IDS is, and he has said that Labour will carry on with Workfare and all the crappy slave labour schemes. Dont forget it was Labour who started all this “welfare reform” crap off in the first place, and IDS came along and added more evil and vile policies to what Lord Fraud had already devised under Blair and Brown.
That’s why I said, god only knows what they will replace it with.
And has anybody noticed the very small icon at the bottom of this page on the left hand side? – you can’t click on it – but I would be intersted in knowing what it represents and why it’s there.
I haven’t got a very small icon ??
if you scroll down right to the very bottom there is a very tiny smiley face – its very small so you have to look hard to see it
Spotted that too 🙂 Any idea who it is?
Spotted that too Any idea who it is?
IDS laughing at us?
The icon seems to be something to do with stats collection (right click on it and inspect element).
stats.wordpress.com – either that or IDS is spying on our jobsearch 🙂
Say Johnny – this has got to be one of the most popular posts you’ve done so far hasnt it? 157 replies and counting?
Glad to see that we are enlightening the public about what is coming their way – this issue is so serious for all claimants.
Looks like a little white smiley face.
Is there a term that means Super-Orwellian? – even the man himself would probably be a bit surprised at having hit the nail so completely on the head – everything in his Very Important Book that hasn’t explicitly been phased in (yet) is all-too-easy to imagine from the point that we have reached. So far we have disappearing pieces of ‘information’; Doublespeak; (?Doublethink? – it’s a while since I read the fictional 2012); Prescribing and Monitoring of activities within the home and enforced ‘workplaces’; lives so structured and dictated to that – you probably know the rest. (I’ve only just now realised why there has to be a large flat-screen TV in the corner of most of our living rooms… Did we ever imagine that the events now happening at a rate of knots could happen in ‘real (modern day) life’ post the Welfare State/NHS/end of rationing/outside of wartime? I imagined it once or twice but didn’t really expect to experience – I could have just saved myself the trouble of reading a whole book and waited for the full Orwellian experience in 2020 ….
Yep. http://rt.com/news/cia-spy-people-petraeus-795/
Enough already.
Oh well. How long before they reverse the decision that allows people on the WP to now claim hardship?
Not that i have claimed such, yet!
But I probably will have to soon. And that will probably entail lots of fun and waiting around to see if they allow me even 40 quid a week.
I’m currently on a 26 week sanction. And the way things are going I’ll be surprised if i am not further sanctioned before this sanction has even expired. Because they can take this UJ and shove it up their arse!
I guess a lot of us will have to adapt to surviving on hardship payments.
That’s if we can actually successfully claim such as the legislation now supposedly allows. I mean it’s worth it for them, I know they’ll give it a good try, but they cannot easily get away with forcing everyone into complete destitution. If many thousands are on hardship it saves them 31 quid a week per person per week.
In the eyes of the fascist psychopaths we are all scum. Genuine and looking for work or otherwise, there is little distinction these days.
Even if you are working! They don’t give a shit about anyone except themselves.
Hardship payments –
These are to be made a loan under UC and will have to be paid back when you get a job. You get about £48 a week at full over 21’s rate.
But you have to prove to them that you are destitute before they will let you claim – ie show them bank statements etc.
If you are sanctioned and you have any savings at all, you have to use all them up before you can be given hardship payments (Loans under UC)
I dont know whether they classify your own property (If you own one) as an asset when deciding whethet you are hard up enough to qualify. They may even ask if you have assets like a car or other things you can sell first – but I’m not sure about this – although I wouldnt put it past IDS to come up with it.
The welfare attacks are sickening. I could make a slight case for reforms if we were in a booming economy, but we have been in recession for the last 4 years. The economy is dead. Each day 1000s are losing their jobs, and IDS makes it sounds like we are all refusing jobs.
At present they don’t count a property as an “asset”, i.e it doesn’t count as savings/investments. Back in the day under the old National Assistance the Labour Board (or whatever they were called) would send an “assessor” round who would tell you to sell every last stick of furniture (not that we had much then), but the fire-side armchair had to go before you could claim National Assistance. It was quite amusing to watch folk passing their sideboard round the back alleys when they knew the “assessor” was on his way.
“National Assistance” was a walk in the park compared to the “Parish Relief” it replaced.
Mind you, in theory at least… if you continue to be non compliant you could just stay on hardship until the day you might be lucky enough to find your own job. Then there will be no JSA for them to recoup from.
Although they could try and get it back out of your earnings. That wouldn’t surprise me. They are nasty horrid people after all.
The rules under universal credit will be that if you qualify for hardship payments – these will have to be paid back when you get a job – but if you stay in employment for 6 months, then the hardship loan is written off.
If you refuse to pay back the loan when you get a paid job, they can do an attachment to earnings and take the money before you get it.
Somebody made the same point before, but it is still worth repeating it.
It is not about finding a job which does not exist, it is not even about IDS or Chris Grayling believing that benefit claimants are scroungers. It is about reducing the benefit bill, and the whole point of jobmatch is not to match you with any employer, but to put the bar so high that most people will fail. It is the point of the whole exercise, and you can accept it or you can fight it. And you better fight it, because the alternative is too awful to contemplate. .
My thoughts exactly, and it was probably me that said it before.
The claimant count is causing IDS headaches as it isnt coming down, the Work Programme is failing and workfare still costs the taxpayer money as they might be able to say that workfare workers count as employed – but they still count on the claimant stats.
If you arent able to create the jobs, then just sanction everyone – that is what the 35 hours a week of jobseeking rule will end up causing. You know as well as I do, that in the real world, people dont jobsearch for 35 hours a week. Its only obvious that they have set it like this to put the frighteners on people – they may be forced to amend this figure later on, and they will say – “we’ve compromised on the 35 hours, we are now only go make you do 15 hours a week, so arent you releived about that?”
People will be so releived that trhey will accept the 15 hours gladly.
Would they have accepeted this figure if it was announced straight away – no, we would have probably kicked off about 15 hours a week as well.
Unemployment benefit doesn’t cost ‘the taxpayer’ money. It allows those in work to retain a larger share of the national wealth than if the available work was shared among everyone. It is the unemployed that subsidise those in work not the other way around. In an economy where there are routinely 30+ genuine applicants for every vacancy you would think society would actually welcome anyone who was willing to absent themselves from the job market in return for the minimal sums paid in benefit.
Spot on!
Spot on!!
so can i tell them im not signing something that allows them access or will they sanction me straight up?
The version given to me today was “as long as you can find ways to show the right amount of evidence (as now) it doesn’t necessarily have to be via UJ” BUT as others have said on here earlier – don’t assume the same response – it’s what I was told but others have been given different answers – varying from suggesting they should, to telling them they have to – or else. It’s against data protection (rights) (for now) but this has to be balanced against fulfilling the agreement to do – whatever it says in the small print – “all reasonable to show fully engaged in looking for work & blah blah” which we have signed up to. So sorry – the real answer to your question is I don’t really know and you have to do what you think is best. I found some helpful ideas for questions to ask the Job Centre on Consent.me. website and also from looking at the Freedom of Information requests on “what do they know” website. But – as has been pointed out – it’s probably only a means to delaying the inevitable – but everything I’ve read in just 2 weeks is suggesting it’s something to avoid being registered on if at all possible – just for protection of personal information apart from the many other reasons why it doesn’t feel right. (There’s no free webcam attached with the package so I don’t think it’s as good as it could be in a few years time yet anyway)…
I’m off now, There’s a good film on ITV4 at 9:00pm – Escape From New York (1981) – or should that be – Escape from the Work Programme!!! See Ya!!!
I normally encounter the worst problems with wordpress refusing to acknowledge posts and sign me in with something called gravatar, but i will try to make one point.
In the countryside, there are no internet cafes. There are none in Shropshire, one of britains largest counties, including in Shrewsbury, with a population of 60-70,000, and there are none that i know of in Pembrokeshire or Ceredigion (except possibly Aberystwyth). You need a steady stream of clientele to make a profit on them. That steady stream, in London, is mainly itinerants – a mixture of tourists and foreign workers – leaving an important message or checking for an important one, a sort of ’emergency’ use, not a regular one (from my spying on the other users). Oh, and 25% of the population live in the countryside, regardless of the impression you’d get from the media. And we don’t all hunt foxes and own farms!
Maybe they expect country folk to live off the land?
so if we all have full time jobs next year are they gonna pay the minimum wage ?
I hope so. If they expect us to jobsearch as if it is a fulltime job, I expect minimum wage at the least, as well as all the other perks of working.
i think it has gone too far i will not be signing up without legal advice from cab so they will have to give me a detailed letter about the scheme now that would be interesting what a hornets nest i will stir up
This really does have to be resisted en masse, there is simply no choice. I’d urge anybody to do all they can in getting this video passed on via social media, forums, comment sections…
Also, IDS is appearing on Question Time next week (London), so for anyone brave enough to shout him down and spread the “do not register” message on national tv, this is a great chance to do it. The applications to become an audience member are here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17154440
‘Reform’ means something getting better. Not worse.
No phone, so how at home in middle of night do I look for jobs? I do over 80 hours jobsearch a week but it is not recordable or provable. I look in papers if I can get hold of ones housemates have dumped. Can’t go to library to read theirs, due to ban. Try using the ones at WP but they actually tell me not to as they prefer me to repeat my jobsearch done at JCP 2-3 days earlier, on computers. I go to job noticeboards but they are the same jobs, and how do you look at those for more than seconds?
WP’s computer doesn’t let you log any job searches on DWP website.
After walking for an hour there often without sleep or food, I’m not in the best condition to look for my own shoes let alone for a job. A big tray of food arrives for the STAFF in front of the hungry jobseekers, that really sucks. All the jobseeking worsens health, mostly it worsens the M.E.
Look for jobs in other places? What have you been doing to find work?
,,,,… The dark side of the moon; Neverland. Erewhon; Narnia, Cloud Cuckoo Land. All places with loads of jobs.How did you look for jobs?
“well i used the computer at WP for 5 minutes then it broke down, so they closed the WP and asked me to leave. So I had to use the rest of my 35 hours jobseeking. so I spent 34 hours and 55 minutes looking for jobs… up Ian duncan smith’s arse. Sad to report, I found no jobs although on the plus side I located in there his mouth and his brain. Also I found all his policies.”
If IDS was a tramp…
He’d be the sort of tramp that befriends you only to steal your shoes as you sleep. Or in a very cold winter to slit you open and sleep in your corpse. Or to hand you a bottle.. of piss. Or to push you in front of a train.
IDS is like a collaborator with the nazis/fascists like being friendly but only to infiltrate and betray so people get tortured and killed.
IDS is like a disease that makes you worry you’ll die, then makes you worry you WON’T die.
Dear Tertiary Syphilis,
Please, please pay a visit to our darling Ian Duncan Smith. Make his nose rot and fall off. If you can’t make it then please pass on this note to your friends Parasitic Worms and Bubonic Plague. Ask if they are free to call on him. If not, then send round Cholera at least.
-The People
Dear People,
I’m sorry but there are some patients no self-respecting disease would be seen with…
-Pestilence
PS my buddy Death can make it though; when do you want and where will you dig the grave?
Bernard
if they are expecting you to jobsearch as if its a full time job then why not ask for the minimum wage for doing it. I have been getting sanctioned every year or so since 1998 when new deal was brought in and was totally opposed to it then, I have been turned down for hardship allowance every time and my appeals forms just came back with the same reply i.e. you deserve to be sanctioned for refusing to do new deal and voluntary work. I have lived on £20 per week raised from my family, I have been locked up by police for refusing to leave the job centre until they paid me some benefit after 7 months with no money – I never once swore or lost my temper just sat and refused to move in protest until the police arrested me. I have A levels was doing a degree before forced onto new deal and never been in trouble with the police until blairs and browns dictats.
I put banners made out of wallpaper up at my windows saying new deal is a steal and cars would parp their horns in agreement going past. I’ve been detained under the mental health act by fascist labour run councils or should that be stalinist ones because of my protests about new deal but they say it was because of their concern I might be evicted, knowing only too well I was entitled to and had housing benefit all backdated because I had nil income so was entitled to hb. The housing association is run by ex council workers who dictate to tenants with recorded messages you have to listen to before they even answer the phone and they still use all the services they commission i.e. mental health and police against you for not doing as they tell you. I am too long in the tooth to be dictated to by jumped up penpushers I’d rather starve. All the major parties are dictatorships both nationally and locally and our MP is worse than useless not to mention a liar when reported to parliamentary standards as I did to him. I could go on as my complaints to public bodies are still ongoing.
The rule is: if you don’t own the device (computer) and don’t know with 100% certainty what software is running on it NEVER input your personal information; this goes for internet cafes, as well as jobcentres and providers offices. Many environments employ Remote Management Software which gives a “real time” view of what is on your screen (it can also take control of your computer via the keyboard and mouse), other software will log every key-stroke (passwords, personal information), website you visit and take “screen-shots”. Many internet cafes run a lucrative side-line in identity theft/card fraud. You also never know who is sat in a back-office viewing exactly what is on your screen. Again, the rule is NEVER input your personal or sensitive information to a device you neither own nor trust.
This is very sound advice, and even if you do use a computer at home make sure that you have up to date anti-virus and that your firewall settings are properly set up. If you have the technical know-how it’s always worth thinking about ditching Windoze and installing a proper, secure operating system like one of the Linux distributions. Most of them are free, and really secure, without the ‘backdoors’ that Windoze has aplenty. You can always install as a ‘dual-boot’ if you need to have Windoze for any reason, such as you’re an avid gamer etc. There are plenty of online HowTo’s instructing how to install and configure such a system.
Important Information regarding Universal Jobmatch:
http://www.consent.me.uk/cacheuniveraljobmatch/
The DWP have altered the documentation regarding Universal Jobmatch
Here’s the original document from 8th August 2012, pay attention to question 13:
Universal Jobmatch – frequently asked questions for jobseekers
Q1. What is Universal Jobmatch?
Universal Jobmatch will be one of the largest jobsites in the UK. It will be a secure and easy way for jobseekers to search for work. It will be available to all employers and anyone looking for work or seeking a career change, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. For jobseekers and employers in Wales the service will be available in Welsh and English.
Q2. How will Jobseekers get access to Universal Jobmatch?
It will be accessed through http://www.direct.gov.uk on a computer and any internet-enabled device or mobile phone. There will also be an app available for smart/android phones and iPhones.
Q3. Will jobseekers be disadvantaged if they do not have access to the internet at home?
The service will be available from anywhere that the internet can be accessed, including internet cafes, libraries, and mobile devices.
The most important thing is to help jobseekers to get the training they need, to be confident in using the internet, searching the web and know how to open an email account, so that they can receive the full benefits of the service.
Q4. Who can use the service?
Anyone, as it is a web based service. However, it is primarily aimed at all employers and people in the UK who are looking for work or seeking a career change.
Q5. Will there be a charge to use Universal Jobmatch?
All services offered to jobseekers and employers will be free at the point of contact, but there will be the usual internet provider’s charges.
Q6. When will Universal Jobmatch be available?
The service will launch in autumn 2012.
Q7. What are the advantages to jobseekers if they register for Universal Jobmatch?
The advantages are:
create or upload a CV,
tailor their job search preferences to suit the jobs they are looking for,
conduct and save their own job searches
receive ongoing job matches
receive alerts via email
see how they match against the jobs placed
refine their job search and identify any skills gaps against their preferred job roles
view employer details of jobs matched to their account
apply for jobs online
access to the help and support function
Q8. Does everyone have to register to search for jobs?
No, but if not, jobseeker’s will not be able to access to all the facilities listed in question 7.
Q9. What information will a jobseeker’s CV hold?
Jobseekers will create a CV that can include, but not be limited to their name, address, telephone number, email address, skills, competencies, qualifications, salary levels sought, location, job preference, hours sought, (per day/week and flexibilities/working pattern).
Q10. How will a jobseeker be able to use their CV once it is in place?
When using a CV, jobseekers will be able to upload an existing CV, create a new CV, view, amend and delete a CV that they have stored on their account.
There will also be an interactive help and hints facility to help them in improving their CV content. Their CV, once uploaded can be used to create matches to employer jobs.
Q11. Will there be a print facility for jobseekers?
Yes, jobseekers will be able to print “single documents” created within their account e.g. their CV, any web pages and screen prints they may find useful.
Q12. How will a jobseeker be notified of a job?
If a jobseeker completes a profile on Universal Jobmatch they can search for jobs and be automatically matched to the wording in the skills section of their profile. If a jobseeker goes on to complete or upload a CV, the service will search through the CV and make a match to suitable jobs when an employer places a job. They will be notified by email and by entry to their account.
Q13. Will claims to benefit be affected by the service?
No, this is a job posting and matching service, which is open to everyone, not just benefit claimants and is not connected to any claims.
Q14. How can a jobseeker provide feedback if they are unhappy with the service?
Jobseekers will be able to provide feedback on their experience via the Universal Jobmatch service itself.
Q15. Is this service also in Welsh?
Yes the service is available in both Welsh and English.
Now here’s the new November 2012 updated one in which question 13 has been changed:
Click to access universal-job-match-faq.pdf
Universal Jobmatch – frequently asked questions for jobseekers
Q1. What is Universal Jobmatch?
Universal Jobmatch is a new, free* online job posting and matching service for companies and jobseekers. It will be a secure and easy way for jobseekers to search for work. It will be available to anyone looking for work or seeking a career change, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. For jobseekers and companies in Wales the service will be available in Welsh and English.
* Your usual internet provider charges may apply
Q2. When does Universal Jobmatch launch?
Universal Jobmatch can be accessed from 19 November 2012.
Q3. How will Jobseekers get access to Universal Jobmatch?
It will be accessed through http://www.direct.gov.uk
Please note GOV.UK will replace Direct Gov from 17 October 2012.
Q4. Will jobseekers be disadvantaged if they do not have access to the internet at home?
The service will be available from anywhere that the internet can be accessed, including internet cafes and libraries.
The most important thing is to help jobseekers to get the training they need, to be confident in using the internet, searching the web and know how to open an email address, so that they can receive the full benefits of the service.
Q5. Who can use the service?
Anyone, as it is a web based service. However, it is primarily aimed at all companies and people in the UK who are looking for work or seeking a career change.
Q6. Will there be a charge to use Universal Jobmatch?
All services offered to jobseekers and companies will be free at the point of contact, but there will be the usual internet provider’s charges.
Q7. What are the advantages to jobseekers if they register for Universal Jobmatch?
The advantages are:
•
create or upload a CV,
•
tailor their job search preferences to suit the jobs they are looking for,
•
conduct and save their own job searches
•
receive ongoing job matches
November 2012
November 2012
•
receive alerts via email
•
see how they match against the jobs placed
•
refine their job search and identify any skills gaps against their preferred job roles
•
view company details of jobs matched to their account
•
apply for jobs online
•
access to the help and support function
•
keep a record of all their job search activity in one place
•
allow their Jobcentre Plus adviser to access their jobsearch activity record
Q8. Does everyone have to register to search for jobs?
No, but if not, jobseeker’s will not be able to access all the facilities listed in question 7.
Q9. What information will a jobseeker’s CV hold?
Jobseekers will create a CV that can include, but not be limited to their name, address, telephone number, email address, skills, competencies, qualifications, salary levels sought, location, job preference, hours sought, (per day/week and flexibilities/working pattern).
Q10. How will a jobseeker be able to use their CV once it is in place?
When using a CV, jobseekers will be able to upload an existing CV, create a new CV, view, amend and delete a CV that they have stored on their account.
There will also be an interactive help and hints facility to help them in improving their CV content. Their CV, once uploaded can be used to create matches to employer jobs.
Q11. Will there be a print facility for jobseekers?
Yes, jobseekers will be able to print “single documents” created within their account e.g. their CV, any web pages and screen prints they may find useful.
Q12. How will a jobseeker be notified of a job?
If a jobseeker completes a profile on Universal Jobmatch they can search for jobs and be automatically matched to the wording in the skills section of their profile. If a jobseeker goes on to complete or upload a CV, the service will search through the CV and make a match to suitable jobs when a company places a job. They will be notified by email and by entry to their account.
Q13. How can a jobseeker provide feedback if they are unhappy with the service?
Jobseekers will be able to provide feedback on their experience via the Universal Jobmatch service itself.
Q14. Is this service also in Welsh?
Yes the service is available in both Welsh and English.
So Iain Duncan Smith you’ve been caught out yet again, I advise everyone to make a copy of both letters and take them with you to the Jobcentre everytime you sign on now, so If they tell you joining UJ is mandatory, you will now have the proof it isn’t.
200 comments and counting… 🙂
Yeah, Q8… The important word there is “NO”..
They’ll probably tweak that question soon enough.
Then they will turn the rest of the question around to use it against us and say you are being obstructive.
Then I will say to them that they are also being obstructive by not allowing me to apply for a job I found without registering. Which i do not want to do, for various reasons… The reasons we here are talking about. Also it’s coercion. It shouldn’t be an advantage to apply for a job you find, it should be standard!
And it’s an advantage to have your advisor checking your online jobsearch? Yeah, for them!
Mind you until we’ve had a look at it next week we are speculating.
But from what I gather we will be able to browse jobs, but will not be able to get the details or apply without being registered. Hmmm?
Actually its question 13 on the original version dated 8th august 2012 that will screw them up – because the original letter is always classed as paramount – just because the DWP have released a later version doesn’t mean anything other that the fact, their trying to hide their mistakes and cover Iain Duncan Smith’s ass .
If they want any amendmant to any policy, it has to be debated in The House of Commons and has to be voted on – this has NOT happened – and as such means nothing in law.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall reading everyones feedback on uj.
Shall we say, anywhere between Monday this coming week and Friday the following week – watch Channel 4 News every weekday from now on!
I remember one american news journalist commented (when Whitney Houston died – a brilliant singer by the way) these people don’t even realise the “Real World” even exists.
Their that wrapped up in cotton wool and because money isn’t ever going to be a worry for them, they don’t even think about anything else, other than improving their status.
This is probably Iain Duncan Smiths ideal. IDS your no star and I’ll leave it there as I don’t want to be offensive on such a great website as this.
It will save scammers the money they pay to get details from job boards. Any old post code or mobile number and wow? I received this yesterday (again)
Congratulations! Based on your CV on jobsite.co.uk we to give you next job offer.
The career we are offering is that of a FS Officer at a income of 1,500 GBP per month for a trial period. Your working timetable will be Monday thru Friday for 2-3 hours a day.
Probationary period – 30 working days from the day you apply.
Employee Benefits Include:
– Dental Care
– Health care
– Vacation – 4 weeks per annum
– And others
All benefits take effect only after probationary period.
We would hope to start working with you in a short time. Please report to Jason Miles as soon as you receive this offer, for documentation and orientation.
Please fill out and send us the form below with your Contact information to verify your identity and interest in this position.
———————F O R M _________F O R M——————
Full Name: ____________________
Address: ____________________
Phone: ________________________
Preferred call time: _______________
———————F O R M _________F O R M——————
Thank you in advance for your time. I look forward to your reply.
Regards,
Jason Miles
Recruitment Manager
Surely they wouldn’t sanction me for failing to apply for that!
Cassandra 479:
You can take your chances that they haven’t let the Jobcentre or your Private Provider know you haven’t gone to this or you can put your head between you legs and kiss your ass goodbye ( under the current rules of JSA – Employment Skills and Enterprise Scheme) Regulations 2011, if they do let these idiots know, you can look foreward to a 1st sanction of between 1 and 13 weeks.
Thanks Obi Wan Kenobi. This is a complete ‘Money Mule’ scam c/o The Bank of Nigeria…
You get your ID stolen. You are employed to take stolen funds in your bank account and pass them on. You are then made liable to pay all the laundered money back because it never existed in the first place, and finally do jail time because all the illegal money laundering can only be traced back to you!
The alleged employer then attaches the ‘job offer’ to another UJ account – onwards and upwards…
Dangerous and RONG!!!!
Have already tried crime stoppers. Now going to Jobsite direct to complain. These freaks need stopping, not their scamming lives made cheaper & easier by IDS.
Again many thanks
Cass
lol I would wager that “Jason Miles” isn’t even his/her real name 🙂
I’ll give you 1000-1 odds on 🙂
It is a SCAM, cassandra479 – don’t touch it!! Problem is once these “vacancies” hit Universal Jobmatch, and because they are “generic” (anyone can be a “money mule” or whatever) they will be matched to every jobseekers account. And barring that if “Jason Miles Recruitment Manager” “invites” you to apply you will have to apply, you will have no choice but to send these fraudsters your personal data – unless you want to suffer a 13 week (first offence), 26 week (2nd), 156 week (3 years) (3rd). Keep an eye on Channel 4 News!
Jason Miles (and others) could have everyone sanctioned/thrown into jail to break rocks in the midday sun. IDS will be rubbing his hands in glee!
The JSA “jobs database” is already littered with these type of fraud/scam ads; at least at the moment you have some discretion (barring “advisor intervention”), but at least at present you can’t be automatically “matched” to these vacancies and then be automatically sanctioned for “failing to apply”. Wonder what happened to the “Web Optimization” postion, used to have zillions of that exact same scam “vacancy” listed with unique references numbers, small wonder I have millions and millions of jobs on my database 🙂
Cassandra 479
Checkout the full post, from the start I posted, 7 posts ago
Contract documents state JCP will continue to operate a residual “telephony channel” (phone line) for those job seekers who are unable or unwilling to use on-line services. But “THIS WILL NOT BE ACTIVELY PROMOTED” .
Also that the phone line will remain in place (doesn’t say til when) for the SMALL percentage (the guestimate is a fifth so not exactly a tiny number) of JCP customers “that will not have access to on-line services or choose not to use them”.
It states “the planning assumption is that 80% of job seekers will make the switch to the online self service channel provided by the Services within the first year” AND that “the services are expected to remain in place for those job seekers (20%) who remain unable or unwilling to use an on line service”
– but doesn’t say til when; it’s left open-ended.
ARE ALL OF YOU DAFT, UNIVERSAL JOBMATCH IN IT’S CURRENT FORM IS ILLEGAL, LOOK AT MY PREVIOUS POST ABOVE , DWP HAVE REMOVED A STIPULATION OF LEGALITY – ITS THEREFORE NO LONGER LEGAL. – GOD IT’S HARD WORK SOMETIMES – JOHNNY MI-LAD-O!
I notice when you do a google search on “universal Jobmatch”, the first result it gives everyone is this blog post – bet thats a real smack in the face with a wet kipper for Lord Fraud and I Dispense Suffering.
From reading a post on twitter, it seems that in a letter from Lord Fraud himself to another MP, that there is no requirement to sign the consent by law, to allow the DWP busybodies to snoop on our UJ accounts.
http://twitpic.com/be0nul
http://twitpic.com/be0o3o
http://twitpic.com/be0oah
I have saved a copy of this letter in case it somehow “dissapears”
also, a note from another tweet on UJ
http://antiworkfare.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/universal-jobmatch-not-mandatory.html?spref=tw
For some reason quite a lot of comments on this thread ended up caught in the span filter – so I apologise if you’ve commented and it hasn’t appeared. wasn’t my intention.
I wondered why the above post came up “awaiting moderation” – probably due to the links in it.
The links in the above post to Lord Fraud’s letter do work – but seem to sometimes take a while to come through, so be patient
Even Lord Fraud admits that DWP can only snoop on your account “as long as you give your consent” as information contained is protected by the data protection act.
If everyone declines to give consent, his nasty little plan to sanction people based on snooping on our accounts is likely to backfire.
So, further – Jobcentres may be able to mandate us with threats of sanctions to join the Universal Jobmatch , but they cannot mandate us to sign away our data protection rights, and without that signature, they cannot spy on us legally.
It really does pay to know your rights in this case, and ignore bullying letters from ignorant managers at jobcentres who think they know it all.
I think that refusing consent to to let them see, is shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. I do not think anybody should be coerced to put all their (very) personal details on-line. Once it is there it is there forever and open to abuse. Call me old fashioned but I really like my privacy. If it is at all possible I would advise everybody not to register anywhere, anyhow, anytime. It is just plain wrong and probably illegal.
And Universal Jobmatch will be like Fakebook: even if you “delete” something it will still be there. Don’t do it!
I agree that this is morally all wrong.
The publicly-given reasons for it though are (as we know) not the ‘true’ reasons it’s being/been brought in. The tactics being used here are are like those of the child-catcher in Chitty-Bang-Bang:-. Make it seem attractive, harmless (a good thing) to any unsuspecting jobseekers (they might be new to JCP, not involved in these conversations; not computer savvy – even not very politically minded). They will just sign up. The expectation is this will be around 80% – even if this is way out it’s likely to include a big number of ‘unsuspecting’ claimants – who will have then set themselves up for a fall.
For people who refuse to ‘engage with the programme’, either by using the site but not registering or by registering but not handing over their password, there will be a bit more time when it is going to be feasible to carry on doing what we already have to do – but it will be harder and harder to be ‘outside’ what’s gong to become the ‘main’ (for the powers that be) means used to look for work and to showing evidence of ‘looking hard enough’. Then, after a while, other forms of ‘proofs’ will turn out to not be included as ‘valid enough’. For anyone who hasn’t found work before (whatever the timescales are – I’m not clear about them) and who is mandated to receive ‘extra help’ via the work programme or whatever that becomes known as next – there will be fewer & fewer (read ‘no’) opportunities to refuse. If you are carrying out a supervised job search It then comes down to a choice between saying “I’d rather not use UJ (which is what you have here in front of me), “thanks, could you just pass me the paper and a phone?” (insurrection) – or using it and putting personal details on to it.
I just want to make the point that it’s easier to have strong beliefs and a sense of (in)justice when sat at home talking to like-minded people but much harder to ‘fight back’ against something like this gigantic and faceless ‘system’ which has the power to dictate the way our lives can go (some of possible consequences of ‘non-compliance’ are clearly written in some of the posts above if there’s any doubt about what can happen as a result of speaking out against what it clearly ‘unfair’ and not right). Trying to live on even less money is a decision for everyone individually to ‘make’ (or risk being made for them) and it’s not a straightforward, informed choice but one that people are backed into a corner and then forced to take – mainly when they try to stand up for what they know to be right – if we could get everyone to ‘do the same thing’ all at once it would be the best way to object to this but somehow I don’t think that’s what the government expect to happen – they don’t think they will have many problems introducing it and making it appear harmless – then shutting the door themselves on whoever they have managed to ‘catch’.
Just don’t give out your main email addresses either, use a throwaway hotmail address instead. IDS and the tories have stooped down to the lowest levels this time. This is the beginning of a national identity scheme by the backdoor, also look up the identity assurance programme supposedly coming soon.
Iain Duncan Smith is going to be on Question Time this week – Thursday 22nd November – BBC1 10:35PM
Has every one on JSA downloaded this document? IF NOT YOU REALLY NEED TO RIGHT NOW. Go to the link below.
Link
“The first time you login you can set up a profile and
authorise [consent to] us [or not] to view your account and
send you messages.”
From: Jobcentre leaflet – An overview of Universal
Jobmatch for jobseekers
From: consent.me.uk
Seems to have been taken down…
I found this site by accident when searching for information on Universal Jobmatch. How is it that so much energy and creativity goes into beating the system when the system is simply trying to make having a job the default choice? What is wrong with looking for a job? Why are your rights being infringed by a process designed to check that you are actively job-seeking? If you see providing some basic personal details as a data risk does this mean you are not using any job boards and are not sending out your CV to prospective employers?
I know it is not easy to find work and that many of the jobs on offer are not great. However we all made our life choices at various stages – from the time we spent at achool to the efforts we made at jobs we had to the relationships we had, etc. – and there are consequences.
Most of us have grown up believing we are in a wealthy country and living off the welfare system is a legitimate lifestyle choice. As others elsewhere work harder than us and for less we are getting comparatively poorer. This is our new reality and unless you have some insight that has eluded everyone else, just shouting about your rights or preaching revolution is a foolish waste of your talents.
I am not some right wing tub-thumper. I am more than happy to pay my taxes so we live in a society where people don’t starve and where everyone gets an education and opportunity. If there aren’t jobs or a person is genuinely unable to work we should provide for them. But preferring not to work whilst claiming benefits does seem wrong.
@ Richard
Strawman – “A logic fallacy involving the purposeful misrepresentation of an argument in order to strike it down”.
There are not enough jobs for everyone who needs one. It’s not a difficult concept to understand. The only way you could fail to understand it, is if you don’t want to understand it – if you prefer to believe the lurid Daily Mail stereotype, because it allows you to blame the victim and gives you feelings of superiority, to look down on the unemployed.
So you Richard, are of course, a sadistic Daily Mail reading bigoted right-winger, who is trolling this website to taunt us and revel in our misery and suffering for kicks.
Nobody in their right mind would want to live on £71 a week and be constantly and relentlessly demeaned and humiliated and forced to do unpaid work, if they could avoid it. Only a deluded idiotic right-winger like yourself Richard, could be so foolish as to believe people would choose to live like this.
This is still a wealthy country Richard. You fully support the race to the bottom, to inflict Third World levels of poverty on the British poor, while the idle rich continue to evade paying their taxes and stash billions of pounds offshore.
“I am not some right wing tub-thumper. I am more than happy to pay my taxes so we live in a society where people don’t starve and where everyone gets an education and opportunity. If there aren’t jobs or a person is genuinely unable to work we should provide for them.
You Richard, typical of all right-wingers, are a liar and a laughably transparent one at that. I suppose you think you are being cunning. You despise the unemployed. You believe all unemployed people are unemployed because they are lazy, unambitious, feckless, uneducated, workshy, parasitic, licentious, benefit scrounging scum. You believe in the just world theory. You believe that everybody who is poor deserves to be poor. You would love to see the unemployed to be left homeless, destitute and left to starve to death. That is how mean, greedy, selfish, sick, despicable and disgusting you are.
Ah – I think perhaps that your reply is a bit more realistic than the one’s I’ve bothered to make – I feel a bit like Homer after reading your comments (doh!)
You refuted and exposed his right-wing arguments very well.
You would love to see the unemployed to be left homeless, destitute and left to starve to death. That is how mean, greedy, selfish, sick, despicable and disgusting you are. – Spot on! – that is “Richard” and their ilk in a nutshell. Here’s to a Very Unmerry Christmas to you “Richard”, here’s hoping you fall off your horse and break you fucking neck, your hounds rip you to shreds, you get run over by your Landrover, you fall into your silage tank, an equally befitting and horrible death – fuck off and DIE, “Richard” you cunt!
Wow! Imagine I had come to this site and used the language you have employed about you.
I have not insulted anyone. I have not trivialised unemployment or the unemployed. Indeed I made clear that I support provision for the unemployed. My observations were about the objections raised here to tracking job search activity. I just don’t get this. When I had investors in my business I thought it totally legitimate that they should take an interest in what I was doing with their money. I can’t see why a person receiving unemployment benefits should complain about having enquiries made as to how their time is being spent. I thought I’d ask and see what came back. I thought Shirley and Bernard made some good points and I acknowledged them.
The mentally ill can stand on street corners shouting abuse and we make allowances. But R33 and Steamroller – is this really the best you can do?
As for the paranoid comments. Perhaps there are people who masquerade as something else in order to (I don’t know quite what or to benefit whom) on this site. However, given that Universal Jobmatch launches tomorrow it should not be unsurprising that those with an interest in the job board sector and technology (which I have) should be googling it. You will find this blog the third link. On the other hnd Google could be part of the conspiracy…
Wow, just wow! Richard, are you suggesting that there is a “conspiracy” afoot to bring down Universal Jobmatch and that vested interests including “competitor” job-boards and search engines such as Google are part of this. So, the posters on here who purport to be unemployed are imposters representing other vested interests. I think you may be onto something, especially since this blog is ranking so highly in Google search results. Whose interests does “johnnyvoid” really represent?
Wow, just wow! Richard, are you suggesting that there is a “conspiracy” afoot to bring down Universal Jobmatch and that vested interests including “competitor” job-boards and search engines such as Google are part of this. So, the posters on here who purport to be unemployed are imposters representing other vested interests. I think you may be onto something, especially since this blog is ranking so highly in Google search results. Whose interests does “jvoid” really represent?
Richard, I do have to wonder why, if you support provision for unemployed people and are, as you say willing to pay taxes so that people do not starve, you are not as outraged as any of the posters here about the introduction of measures into the welfare system which will result in considerably increased hardship for a great many people who are unemployed through no fault of their own.
Is it really the best use of unemployed people’s time to be pointlessly ‘searching’ a database of unsuitable jobs for 35 hours a week and wasting the time of those employers who have both jobs and a surfeit of qualified and experienced applicants?
I am not on unemployment benefits, but where I live, I could contact all the possible available employers in the course of an afternoon. Are unemployed people here supposed to pester these folks several times a week to see if nay jobs have come up? That sound to me like a great waste of a lot of people’s time.
It isn’t the fault of unemployed people that there are more people than jobs. Why should they be ever more penalised and pressurised because of it. We have a society where employment is becoming an ever bizarre kind of musical chairs where the penalties for those unfortunate enough to be without a job when the music stops suffer ever-harsher sanctions. I fail to see how your assertion that having a job should be the default choice with an economy which is no longer able to provide sufficient jobs to go around.
When there are considerably more than enough people who really want to get a job and most vacancies have several genuine applicants, just what is wrong with some people choosing not to work anyway? I have never been able to work that out. When there aren’t enough jobs for everyone what is wrong with someone deciding not to look for work? Surely it just helps those who are seriously looking for a job What difference does it make to society, or the economy, if a vacancy is filled by person A who wants it or person B who has been forced to apply by the jobcentre, if the result is that Person A will be stuck on benefits they don’t want to be on while person B would have been happy to remain on benefits? Just what is the issue with that beyond salving the righteous indignation of those who jealously guard their own wealth and seem bizarrely jealous of those who have to live on benefits?
(Wishing there was a provision to edit posts for grammatical and spelling errors)
Graham
35 hours per week job search is daft – at least I certainly hope so. I have a feeling that someone has come up with this number and it has become an accepted fact. Another stick to beat the DWP with.
I think your argument about a person in a time of high unemployment volunteering to be jobless is interesting but flawed. As human beings we need to strive; a life on limited funds and with nothing to work for is rarely a happy one. This combined with the fact that there are far more opportunities than people realise means that resigning oneself to an existence of unemployment is wrong.
I believe that you live on a Scottish island and presumably there are relatively few local employers. For some the option could be to see if there is a small business they can set up, from doing something locally to making things/trading on ebay to developing a skill that can be delivered remotely using technology etc. Another option is to move to a part of the country where there are more opportunities. But to just stay in a place with nothing to do is, in my opinion, not a good plan. In nations throughout the world people expect to move to where the work is. Many in this country believe that this is not appropriate.
Life is not fair. People have different talents and sometimes these talents open doors and provide a comfortable life. I wish I could kick a football like Messi or have the looks and charisma of George Clooney. These were not the deck of cards I was dealt. However there are some things I can do and life is far more interesting when one has a challenge. On the micro level this is about pursuing my goals. On the macro level an engaged and ambitious population will result in a vibrant economy where there are more opportunities.
I don’t begrudge people £70 a week. I would hate to have to live on this and can only imagine the difficulties faced. What drives me to despair is the nihilsm of so many. Unproductive, self-defeating and short-sighted. It is like rioters burning cars and shops in their own neighbourhood and then getting upset because where they live becomes that much worse.
As at present a small business owner and having previously being involved in recruitment for blue-chip companies I would suggest that there should be no requirement for jobseekers to apply for x amount of vacancies a week.
From a business owners perspective the overheads incurred through the time required and manpower to weed out the genuine applications from the forced applications is simply intolerable; it really must to putting a brake on the wheels of UK commerce.
As a personal example, my company (which actually produces and manufactured goods to be sold at both home and abroad) has been forced to install extra telephone line capacity; this is because the sheer volume of calls we receive from employees (of parasitical non-productive companies) and jobseekers they were forcing to cold-call us was overwhelming our switchboard blocking genuine customers from getting through; we have no way of proving but I suspect that this silly forced jobseeking activity is costing UK plc a pretty penny.
Employers should add a notice to their ads that says:
“NO TIME WASTERS – GENUINE APPLICATIONS ONLY”
My partner is a manager with a large retail chain and the amount of “spam” call she receives from “jobseekers” is really stressing her out. Why should employers time be encroached on or have to go to ever more expensive and convoluted ways of dealing with these pests.
PS She says that she even has “jobseekers” coming into the shop handing in CVs who have been “told” to do so by some company or other. There have been lots of complaints about this practice from staff particularly at this time of year when they are busy putting up Christmas promotions and have to immediately stop what they are doing to deal with what they mistakenly believe to be a customer.
PPS She also says that the company also receives lots of calls from companies offering “free” staff (‘workfare’ traders I assume); as an ethical business they just tell these callers not to ‘phone again and put the ‘phone down.
If someone has the threat of losing benefits hanging over them they are not going to take much notice of notices to timewasters.
But it is not fair on employers to have to put up with that either.
I may be wrong but the jobseeker is getting pressure from JCP staff to apply for more jobs
because the staff are under pressure from management who are under pressure and so on up the chain of command back to Whitehall and ultimately government HQ
I see there has been the weekly diatribe about the “lifestyle” of feckless wastrels
http://apps.facebook.com/theguardian/p/3c38v/tw
Just received a letter from the council. The government reckons that £70 per week is what is needed to live on. Take out food and utility bills from that and whoop de doo! I am off to the Ritz for a jolly!
Don’t misunderstand, I am grateful to have the support. What I don’t need is yet another piece of shit telling me how crap and worthless I am.
I do that perfectly well all by myself without the help of some snotty public school gobshite thank you 😡
I fell of a ladder and nearly broke my neck (spent a week in hospital) putting up signs and all because someone wanted to hand a CV in.
@ The Smiths but what you have got though is rows and rows of jobseekers sat in “provider” offices (under threat of up to 3 year benefit sanctions) being told to ‘phone you and over again. “They haven’t got any jobs!” “Just keep ‘phoning, you never know when they might need someone”.
Wow! Imagine I had come to this site and used the language you have employed about you.
I have not insulted anyone. I have not trivialised unemployment or the unemployed. Indeed I made clear that I support provision for the unemployed. My observations were about the objections raised here to tracking job search activity. I just don’t get this. When I had investors in my business I thought it totally legitimate that they should take an interest in what I was doing with their money. I can’t see why a person receiving unemployment benefits should complain about having enquiries made as to how their time is being spent. I thought I’d ask and see what came back. I thought Shirley and Bernard made some good points and I acknowledged them.
The mentally ill can stand on street corners shouting abuse and we make allowances. But R33 and Steamroller – is this really the best you can do?
As for the paranoid comments. Perhaps there are people who masquerade as something else in order to (I don’t know quite what or to benefit whom) on this site. However, given that Universal Jobmatch launches tomorrow it should not be unsurprising that those with an interest in the job board sector and technology (which I have) should be googling it. You will find this blog the third link. On the other hnd Google could be part of the conspiracy…
Yawn, yawn… “Voice of the Work Programme”… do you never give up……….. Zzzz
“I found this site by accident when searching for information on Universal Jobmatch.” Yeah, sure Richard”, we believe you 🙂 Good luck at your next signing-on appointment 🙂
Has every one on JSA downloaded this document? IF NOT YOU REALLY NEED TO RIGHT NOW. Take this with you to the Jobcentre the next time you sign on because you’ll need it.
Universal Jobmatch
Notes for Jobcentre Plus staff
“Requiring Jobcentre Plus customers to use the Services
10.7 When the Services are implemented, Jobcentre Plus
customers (including potential jobseekers) will not be
mandated to register and create a profile.”
From: DWP TLMS Schedule 2.1, Authority (Universal
Jobmatch) Requirements
http://www.contractsfinder.businesslink.gov.uk
“Q8. Does everyone have to register to search for jobs?
No, but if not, jobseeker’s will not be able to access all the
facilities listed in question 7.”
“Q13. Will claims to benefit be affected by the service?
No, this is a job posting and matching service, which is
open to everyone, not just benefit claimants and is not
connected to any claims.”
From: Universal Jobmatch question and answer brief
Click to access universal-jobmatch-faqs.pdf
(August 2012)
“The first time you login you can set up a profile and
authorise [consent to] us [or not] to view your account and
send you messages.”
From: Jobcentre leaflet – An overview of Universal
Jobmatch for jobseekers
http://www.consent.me.uk
Hello Richard,
Glad to hear you’re not some right wing tub-thumper. If you read the ‘Brutal Farce at the DWP Continues’ post above, you will have a flavour of what is being/going to be expected of anyone who currently does not have a job.
Should you be unlucky enough to find yourself in this situation, and take yourself to the job centre to claim your £71/week, feeling hopeful that it will only be for a short while and you will receive some help there in your search to find work for yourself (and to support any dependants if you have them). This is what will happen next:- All of your beliefs that there is a system in place which is designed to support those in need and offer them help with finding work will be shattered. The atmosphere is one of barely-suppressed fear (I’m talking about the staff not just the customers). There are security guards everywhere. Should you be ‘too early’ for your appointment you will be ‘strongly advised’ to spend the time before you go to your ‘waiting area’ looking at the jobs on offer. If you say “Thanks, I’ve been doing that for the past couple of weeks quite a bit and just used up most of my last few pounds on getting here (as it’s week two and so the money, which doesn’t cover 2 weeks, is almost gone) – I’d just like to sit quietly and wait” – you will be looked at as if you are a criminal (or mad). Your ‘adviser’ will then give you jobs to apply for (which may or more likely may not) be ones you would have chosen to try to go for yourself. If you fail to apply for these h/she will take away some of your £71 for that week and perhaps for subsequent weeks. This is a constant (if unspoken) threat.
This isn’t the welfare state I grew up believing in. (Many of us haven’t grown up believing that “living off the welfare system is a legitimate lifestyle choice.” I learned that it was introduced as a safety net for those who needed it at times in their lives when they were ‘between jobs’, paid for by these same people at times when work is plentiful) – so that families (not just families – anyone) wouldn’t starve unless they could beg, steal or borrow enough to scrimp by on in times of high unemployment.
I have been unemployed before in the past (around 15/20 years ago). The jobcentre then allowed for/ even encouraged/helped, where appropriate, people to look for jobs – but in what now seems like some halcyon dream (I didn’t realise then how humane it was). Everyone in there was just as poor as they are now – well, relatively not in actual fact — but for the sake of argument let’s say they were – but there wasn’t the feeling then that we were guilty of committing a crime (not having a job). I could be mis-remembering; perhaps it just wasn’t made so explicit then. What I’ve mentioned here is the tip of the proverbial iceberg. You really have to experience it for yourself and (speaking as someone who hasn’t – so far, for eg. been unlucky enough to be 10/15 minutes late for an appointment and received a ‘sanction’ and so been forced to try to live on less than the basic weekly ration I might not be the best-qualified person on this site to reply what you’re asking).
It’s very tiring being unemployed – but now to add to that there is no guarantee that you will have a regular amount to live on and that is stressful. I think that the reason this site has come to the top of the information re. Universal Jobmatch is that the barriers to finding work that are constantly talked about are not the ones job seekers experience each week – the main obstacles being put in their way are from those who are alleged to be there ‘to help them into work’ and people are feeling that ‘enough is enough’. I would rather be at work (not now, but on Monday morning) and have some financial security and I would rather be spending most of my time trying to get to that point instead of discussing this with strangers. I found this site recently too but it was after being informed that I will be asked to sign up to a job site (with a 2-way capability) – ie. Job centre advisers – not necessarily the person I see each fortnight – will have access to ‘my’ account – all of the letters I send to potential employers and my CV. They will be able to forward my details to anyone who has registered on the site as an employer. That person can they ‘call me to interview’. The amount of time spent on this site will be recorded and ‘checked’. If it’s found to not come up to the ‘required’ levels – a computer will stop my money. I will have to explain to my family why there is no food in the house.
I hope this goes some way to explaining why there are so many comments in reply to this particular post. The energy you have mentioned being used up is in addition to time spent in carrying out legitimate job seeking and trying to improve current situations. It’s not ‘extra’ energy but it’s come as a result of our experiences day to day/week to week – the reason there’s so much agreement on here is that it’s in response to the reality of being unemployed in today’s Britain – never a good experience but currently one that’s dehumanising/barbaric but which any decent person would feel the need to speak out about.
Hi Shirley
When I grew up the ‘dole office’ was an extremely unpleasant place. Jobcentre Plus, for all its many failings, is considerably more ‘customer friendly’ than it used to be. And we are a world away from the Victorian Poor House or the charity of the church that preceded this.
I would not like to live on £71 per week and can imagine how frightening it must be trying to live with such financial uncertainty.
But read the posts above. Do you get the sense that these are people assiduously job-searching whilst grumbling about bureaucratic failings? Or are they people trying to side-step the rules and avoid being forced to look for work? I have a friend who works in welfare to work and we had a fascinating conversation. It boiled down to if I lost my job and had no money, how long would it be before I drove a minicab, stacked shelves, worked in a burger bar, delivered newspapers, washed cars or did something that brought in money? Not because any of these are my dream jobs, but simply to earn something whilst I look for something better.
They should employ you in a job centre. You are a valuable asset if you can sort out, just looking at them, people who do not look hard for a job from the ones who do.
I believe that is why they are introducing a job-search system with tracking. Precisely so they don’t need to work out just by ‘looking at them’ who is active and who is not.
That isn’t not why they are bringing in (illegal) tracking of people’s day to day activities. It’s so that when the ever-increasing levels of ‘requirements to fulfil’ are not met by vast numbers of people – they can ‘sanction’ sa(i)d people – us – and save some money/make the numbers of people seen to be claiming in a particular period fall slightly and ensure that the food banks don’t like idle.
If you are really interested from a social perspective in what’s going on in 2012 in the country we live in, it’s all here (above) and all around you too if you look. I don’t know all the people at the job centre or on this site but I do know that jobs are going thick and fast and I see what looks to be a cross-section of the general public when I go to sign on – whatever that means.
… That was supposed to say ‘lie idle’…
Does this tracking system work those apply for jobs via post, send out speculative letters, call employers, search newspapers? No, it only tracks jobs you apply for through the website. Unless you are clicking away for 35 hours like a maniac, you will fall under the requirement and be sanctioned.
You are right, they have been ‘decorated’ so cosmetically they do look different. They are at first glance more what you call ‘customer-friendly’ but just go in and soak up the atmosphere for a few minutes. Once sat down with an adviser claimants are treated as though they are probably not really trying to get/wanting a job really and so they are asked to ‘prove’ what they have done (in detail) that week and given more jobs to apply for – whatever their level of education/past experience in applying for an finding jobs themselves.
I have read the posts above. They are from people who may be feeling demoralised/angry but have not given up on their fellow human beings or lost their sense of justice and humanity (I’m not suggesting that you have). I hope you don’t lose your job in order to have to find out where it would take you (to a supermarket to stack shelves and/or to a site like this).
If this did happen, people who work part-time and receive in-work benefits due to being in low-paid jobs are also going to be required to use Universal Jobmatch as a condition of continuing to receive these- to show evidence that they are trying to increase the hours they work.
When the Universal Credit is in place from April, any ‘stoppages’ incurred via ‘sanctions’ at the job centre will automatically mean housing benefit as well as others currently paid to those on JSA (council tax for eg.) will also stop There are already plans for people to pay a proportion of these themselves anyway out of what they have to live on now.
“We are a world away from the Victorian Poorhouse”:-
We are not. Where I live there are 4 new food banks currently being set up across town – the numbers of these across the country are increasing rapidly from a year ago.
Ps. I know you mean well. I am trying to replace fear with anger/rational debate/constructive action and trying to not be too mentally distracted by all that is being thrown at me and friends who are really quite unwell but being told they are well enough to carry out ‘Work-related-Activity” in exchange for being allowed to continue to receive ‘financial support’. This is so that I can try to remain hopeful that things will improve. I have to say though, that unless you have tried it, I don’t think you can imagine how frightening it must be to live with such financial uncertainty – even if you have a very good imagination.
Shirley
You write thoughtfully and eloquently and I agree with many of your points. The trouble with government is that they try to effect change through blunt policies. If the system is flexible people will complain that they are being treated differently from someone else and thus unfairly. If the rules are the same people will complain at the rigidity and inappropriateness for their personal situations.
I don’t have the answers. However, times will be increasingly harsh, resources more scarce and people are going to find the work/life balance more onerous than was previously the case.
I would rather be dealing with unemployment in the UK than in Greece. And Greece is no doubt better than many countries in other continents.
Well thanks.
But, no-one is asking for a ‘flexible’ system – just a fair one. Incredibly, there are no hard-and-fast rules any more (as most of us would probably think there would be). The introduction of these ‘sanctions’ (the deducting of money from already meagre benefits) means that the claimant is truly at the mercy of their adviser. If they are late; if they fail to apply for a ‘recommended’ job – there are many reasons – these are just a couple of the ones in my experience so far – this is recorded and passed to a ‘decision maker’ who allegedly then looks at the reasons given in mitigation by the terrified claimant and ‘decides’. After a tense wait, the decision is then revealed via money arriving (or not) when it is due. Quite clearly people have financial commitments which could easily default at this point – leaving aside the issues of food, heating and travel expenses for a moment. THIS IS INHUMANE (to put it politely).
With regard to the economic/jobs/social policy situation in Greece, I would rather live in this country than, say, some parts of India but that doesn’t make all of the above any more acceptable.
I’m sure everyone can make up their own mind about what’s going on currently – maybe talking to others as well as your friend in order to gain a wider perspective is a very brave thing to do if you have no real reason to be looking into all of this.
Shirley,
One question worth asking I think is whether advisers have targets.
Many Greek people have the right idea… it’s bad, and people there are really desperate… signs of things to come here. Eventually the Greek government will have to concede defeat and accede to people’s demands. It will be tough, but already people are taking on their own initiatives and taking over businesses that owe them unpaid wages etc. At the end of the day the people will always win when their backs are against the wall and they are desperate with nothing to lose.
Resources aren’t scarce, so please stop peddling that bullshit. If those that owed taxes paid them, you know, those who are this, (and the previous government’s) friends then we wouldn’t be short of financial resources.
Now, please go and crawl back under than Daily Mail sponsored stone you live under.
How will the Greek government accede to the people’s wishes? The only money they have is tax revenue that is considerably lower than current expenditure and new loans provided by Germany. If you have no money you cannot keep buying things.
The businesses that owe wages don’t have money either. That is why they can’t pay the wages. So how will taking them over release cash?
Rioting is an option. Have you noticed how it is the homes, shops and cars where the poor people live that get burnt down. I have often wondered how this helps the already deprived neighbourhood and its inhabitants.
There is considerable research that shows that beyond a certain level increasing tax results in a lower tax take. It pushes the average person into the black economy and the very wealthy are mobile and ensure their assets are kept out of reach.
Trotting out trite solutions helps no one.
Even in Thatcher’s day jobcentres didn’t have security guards… opps, I mean “customer care officers”.
Come on, Richard, you are having laff, barring your time at Eton when for a “jolly jape” you “rolled up your sleeves” and worked a shift in your local supermarket, you never have been or will be in the position of driving mini-cab, stacking shelves, working in burger bar, delivering newspapers (you left school yet, Richard?), or washing cars or any other menial, low-paid, insecure, unsustainable means of scratching a living. You have about as much idea about the lives of the poor and the daily grind of poverty as Prince fucking Harry. You are protecting your class interests. You couldn’t give a fuck about the poor.
Sorry Soup Kitchen. I have worked in McDonalds and a local cafe, I have done concession work in shops, I have done a newspaper round, I have cleaned cars and I have worked as a decorator’s assistant. I remember being careful to ensure I had enough money to pay for my tube fare home.
I have also started my own company and worked seven days a week.
I have not, however, gone to Eton or – for that matter – university.
I made my own decisions – some good and some bad. I have not visited this site to preach or imply that my approach is the right one.
There is something sick about our society and it is not just at the privileged end of the spectrum.
Have you read Robert Tressell’s ‘Ragged Trousered Philanthropists’? I wonder whether there’s a communication problem here. No-one who is on this site is visiting it to “preach” but to share information and some of their experiences in common (I think). As others have said – there is a point where you either ‘get it’ or you don’t as in:- I read the Daily Telegraph (it wasn’t by accident; I meant to do it) around twice, years ago, and that was enough to know that I didn’t ‘connect’ or identify with it.
I think everyone on here thinks that their approach is the right one or else why would they presume to tell everyone else their views?
No Shirley. I have not read the book.
Scanning through the posts there is a communications problem. Some people are just class war idiots. There is no point debating an issue with them as their knee jerk reaction is unthinking vitriol. Others do have a brain, however, whilst willing to volubly comment on what is wrong with the ‘system’ they seem to have lost their eloquence when those on their side behave unacceptably.
Demonising someone who has a different view is rarely a smart thing to do. And standing by, not intervening, whilst others patently distort and gratuitously insult does not reflect well on the individual.
One of the the points that have been made about the paralympics is that not all disabled people can do the incredible things we witnessed and we should not expect them to. Fortunately it is not right to assume that all unemployed are similar to some of those who have posted here.
@ Richard
Fuck off! Cunt!
@ dogbone
With your gift for words you’ll go far in life. #inadequate
Richard, you are undoubtedly another of the nasty pieces of work who come on here and troll. No one on here is talking about getting a ‘dream job’ but rather avoiding being caught up in a system that is more pernicious than that of the system of surveillance devised by the Stasi. There has always been a requirement on those who are claiming unemployment benefits. Whilst the actual premises we attend to sign on are far more plush than they used to be, the people working in them aren’t generally as nice or as helpful as they used to be back in the 70s. Levels of benefit aren’t as high either, as unemployment benefit is worth something like 27% less in real terms than it was in 1975.
All the jobs you have outlined are also in the service sector, and those jobs are increasingly casual, and dependent on there being a buoyant economy with average, ordinary people able to afford to use those services. They are also the target area of those WP companies for work placements of indentured labour, i.e. those of us making a claim, so there will ultimately be a shortage of even those disgustingly badly paid jobs.
Those at the moment who are better off had not better rest on their laurels either, as this government’s austerity plans will just not work, and will only serve to make the situation worse, not better, so even those who are at present affluent will find themselves out of work and having to demean themselves by signing up to this degrading process.
There isn’t much opposition to the deranged ideas of a demented idiot, but one thing is for sure, at some point it will all get very nasty, and there will be those who see that they have absolutely nothing to lose – and that always bodes unwell for those in power. And given that Labour are not only complacent, but are actually colluding with this pernicious legislation means that the mainstream offers no hope of any change. A very dangerous situation is brewing, and IDS and the cohorts of Daily Mail reading idiots supporting are just too stupid to see that it could lead in a very nasty direction. It seems to me that we are on a very slippery slope to one or another form of fascism in the UK. There is the corporate fascism of Cameron, IDS and crew, or the fascism of the BNP variety. Labour are colluding with all of this, so this should be remembered as well, and hopefully when all this is dealt with sometime in the future there will be an international court case and a very long time in prison for those responsible for the creation of so much misery.
You seem like quite an intelligent person, with a brain… please, just use it as a change from spouting proto neo-fascist crap culled from the Daily Mail.
@ sibrydionmawr
Is your definition of a troll simply someone who disagrees with you? There are some who regard the unemployed as work shy, scroungers,etc. – the apparent view of the Daily Mail reader. I have made no such statement so accusing me of this is daft as well as hypocritical. By all means point out why my arguments are wrong – but just to typecast me as an unthinking member of the hang ’em and flog ’em brigade is silly. You may as well just copy dogbone and use his three favourite words. It is as meaningful and would save you time.
There are not enough jobs for everyone who wants one. However, on an average day there are over 500k advertised vacancies in the UK – in addition to unadvertised roles. This means that very large numbers of people (NOT everyone) who don’t have work could be one of those who get one of these jobs.
Hello Richard,
I have been unemployed since graduating with a first class degree in maths.I habeen turned down for retail and even cleaning jobs due to being overqualified. I love how people who are working make assumptions the unemployed. I am happy to switch places whenever you like. One thi I do agree with is that there are a lot of intelligent posters on this board, with a lot more to give to the country than washing cars.
Bernard – to get a first class degree in maths you must be bright. I am not sure you are looking for answers from me. However, it might be worth looking in the mirror and trying to work out why employers have not selected you. There is a skills shortage in this country and one would have thought your capabilities would open some doors. And if you are going for a basic job, just tone down your CV. Avoid coming over as someone either over-qualified or perhaps resentful of a low-end role.
Finally – if employment is not your thing – have a look at sites like odesk.com and elance.com. Is there a service you can provide using your brain?
The average I think is 3.7 person for each vacancy. Therefore some people do not find a job, because there are not enough of them, and not because there are inadequate.
So apply for twenty vacancies. Unless one is clearly inferior to the average person who applies it is reasonable to assume that one of these applications will be successful.
I was hiring for my company some months ago (£18k basic plus bonus in an outer London suburb) and there were half a dozen decent applications out of about forty. By decent, I mean ones where the CV or cover email bore some resemblance to the role or were not full of basic errors. I telephoned about 10 of the applicants. Some did not reply and some did not turn up for the interview (without phoning to let me know that they had changed their mind/found something else). In the end it came down to two applicants who I rated. My point is that in many parts of the UK there are jobs and there are numerous resources on the Internet to help explain how to be a successful jobseeker. I think jobseekers have bad experiences and then assume this will always be the case. They become sloppy with applications, perhaps even hostile. And thus a vicious circle develops.
I have asked that question a thousand times, and still have no answer. The feedback I have received from employers is on the whole very positive, however no job at the end of it. The majority of my friends from university are working, and are in disbelief that I can’t find work. I have been on the government ‘Work Programme’ for a year, they are also shocked at me being unemployed, yet have done jack all to help me find me work. They have spammed my CV so much, that I receive 10-15 calls a day from accident lawyers, debt recovery agents and god knows who.
This shows how much they are trying to help you! I’m sure you’re among many other graduates (even if it doesn’t always seem that way) out there looking for work – for a ‘bog-standard’ admin job on most sites it’s coming up with between 30 and 100 applicants per job – there is massive competition from higher-level and highly qualified people who’s jobs have disappeared, as well as the people who would originally have been applying for a given job anyway (as well as those who have been given the job to apply for by their adviser but would have previously chosen not to – for whatever reason).
On some sites there are 300-400 applications for every vacancy that I apply to. The last interview I had was for a bog standard admin job with the NHS. There 30 people interviewing for that one vacancy, majority of them with multiple degrees or a PhD. Even though I had a great interview, I didn’t get that job. My WP provider wasn’t happy with me for some reason.
I’m not sure who is exactly playing the system for the sake of £50/£70 a week. We must do it to be constantly branded welfare scroungers, sold off to welfare providers and forced to work for free, threatened with sanctions on daily basis. If they couldn’t someone with a first class degree work, I feel sorry for the less fortunate.
The new Universal Jobmatch will soon make it mandatory for the unemployed to job seek for 35 hours a week (monitored), a minute less and automatic loss of benefits. It doesn’t matter if you don’t have a computer or an internet connection, whether there were no suitable vacancies that week.
Anita,
Most people at work have targets these days. One of my least-preferred jobs to do would be the one that the person sat opposite me when I go to sign and receive ‘job advice’ does. It must be soul-destroying. The whole thing is a charade and both sides know it – but depending on his/her temperament, they might care more/less about the human misery facing them all around the room and the fact that they have to sit there surrounded by security guards in case it all becomes too much for someone and there is any kind of an ‘outburst’.
WP advisers definitely have targets to get people into work, I have seen them complaining about losing their jobs on a number of occasions. In fact a number of them have lost their jobs whilst I have been on the scheme. They reap what they sow.
Yes Shirley, but for exemple, Atos has targets but that does not include getting it right. Targets for job centre advisers might be the processing time, or how many match a job with a job seeker, or how many job seekers are sanctioned and loose their benefits. But you are right. It is soul destroying. I do not know whether you heard of this Scottish Atos nurse, who eventually resigned because she could not cope with finding very sick people fit for work. She is now at the receiving end of Atos, because of depression, and because of the price you have to pay when you go along, even for a very short time with the system, providing you have a conscience.
I did read the article about her but I am fast running out of anything original to say (hopefully just a temporary thing) in a sort of “l need to go and read anything that’s not about real life for a while” kind of a way ….
I gave the person in the jobcentre my email address last time i signed on.I didint know anything about this. I cant sign into the site though cos I havent got the password. I’m not gonna be part of this, Im not gonna sign into the site. They can’t force you surely?
Stephen F:
See my earlier post I made on here at 2:17pm
Just wondering if traveling to the Library or where ever to access a PC counts toward your 35 hours jobsearch?
yes travelling to and from the library or internet cafe in order to do your jobsearch does indeed count to your several hours a day.
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Universal jobmatch is a joke! Waste of time even looking, I searched the old jobdirect.gov site daily and you could actually find relevant jobs. This new site doesn’t let you search for all jobs in a specific area instead you have to search specific job titles which as a non graduate without a trade is pointless, remember Tory government not everyone went to Eton or Oxford bring back old site for everyones sake!!!!
I am absolutely flabbergasted at this DWP move. I agree that there are way too many lazy assed people not willing to work and they do need a kick up the ass, but the rest of us are being treated just like them. As anyone out of work knows, it is hard to get along, and spending 35 hours a week searching for work does not allow us to make the moves needed for survival, especially when we have injuries and medical needs to deal with also.
I see something rather nasty waiting to bite both the government and the big society on their asses real soon. A tremendous increase in crime!
When the smart guys at DWP cut someone’s money what are they expecting to be the outcome? Should a person just commit suicide?Lay in the gutter and wait to die quietly without bothering any others?
I consider myself to be a nice guy, and try to stick to my moral code – but I can tell all right now: ‘I will not go away and die quietly for the benefit of the rich!’
I once lived and worked in South America where bodies with gun shot wounds to the head were a daily occurrence. They do not have social support systems. Our government should visit some of these places to remind them of the consequences of these type of action.
Silly silly people running the world. Civilization peaked 25 years ago – being a temporary phase where nations were recovering from decades of vicious war, and that created a peacefulness and willingness to conform – it is not human nature to do so, and only another vicious world war would bring such a condition back again. We are now in a phase of damage limitations, the only problem is that our government are too soft and pampered to know what the damage will be!!
hey amigos, mexico she had no no social support, its true, but hey mexico she has no TAX, hey, hey 🙂 and Mexico she has the highest MURDER rate in the WORLD, hey hey… adios amigos
i work for a “living” if you can call it that, i work for a multi national conglomerate that just does what the f@ck they like, my contract is only worth the paper it is written on when it is i whom is breaking it, the minimum wage is just a joke as they just cut your hours anyway, a full time employment contract used to be a 37-40 hr working week being the norm, nowadays you are lucky to get a 30 hr contract if you can get one at all, and even then whilst i have a 30 hour contract in the last 20 weeks i have been given 30 hours or more a total of 3 times, companies dont give a f@ck because you are too easily replaceable you are their slave do do with as they wish, if i was actually getting 30 hours i still would be no better of (or in fact worse off) than if i was on the dole.
it is companies like this that control everything, dont be fooled into thinking that the government actually runs this country because they dont, the conglomerates do, the government are just their puppets in place to organise the control, we have a boom and bust society because any superficial prosperity we have was because they lent us the money because this allows them to soak up all the free cash even quicker, you pay it back with interest and you work even harder for them in order to be able to do this, making them money on 2 fronts instead of one,
anything the working class do to get 1 up on them (take for instance the fuel protests) where the government then made it illegal to protest therafter, basically my point being is that we are just slaves to the rich, the rich are the pupeteers in this welfare reform, with the idea being if youre not going to be a slave to them then they will make you a slave by any means necessary, now they have all the money they dont even have to give you a job because they dont f@cking care so they wont. they have become accustomed to the slave labour they received and are still receiving in the east and now they have all the money they dont need to move there like they did in the past to receive slave labour because they can globalise this now, i mean what is an economic slowdown anyway? why does it occur? has the sun suddenly stopped shining and produce no longer grows? no! is there suddenly less resources…..no! they moved their business east to empower the east to be in competition with us for the same produce so they who own and control it can charge more for it hence inflation. why else do prices go up? what is inflation? if not the greedy getting greedier, the rich poor divide is getting exponentially bigger as it will continue to do so at an explosive rate until anarchy ensues, we’ve already had the beginnings of it with the riots in london and manchester and whats the governments answer well we’ve got the biggest stick so we’ll make an example of all those we can, delivering the message of the rich……we have all the money, we no longer give a fuck about you as you have served your purpose we own and control everything and we also have the biggest stick, we also control the media whom are there to brainwash you or the vast majority of you, it shows in the attitude that if you wont be a slave to them then they will just fire you and get someone that will, nowadays they can apply this principle on a global scale too, if the country wont conform there is always one that will, the top and bottom of it is we’re fucked whatever we do and complete anarchy and global war is the only answer, the welfare reforms are just one little issue in a much bigger problem thats been getting bigger and bigger and will continue to do so untill the working class are left with no option but to use the only advantage they have……numbers,
but that is never going to happen in our segregated society, that is why this website exists along with the whole web so you dont have to go out, to keep you separate from society, to prevent you ganging together on the streets or in public houses where you CANT be effectively monitored, what you’re poor and cant afford the internet? what you would rather spend your giro in the pub socialising than pay an isp 25 quid a month for the privalige of being in big brothers eye? right what can we do about that then….and so UJ is born. after all there are more people than places to meet and unify but there are more websites to rant on than there are people…………its all part of the big plan. in the words of jim morrison………your all a bunch of fucking slaves…..end of.,….
in the uk there are 57,500 pubs and shrinking on the www there are 346,004,403 websites and growing to keep you occupied, hopefully uj will be the straw that broke the camels back………….but i doubt it theres always enough weak minded suckers that will lie down and accept it, the same ones that think coronation street is actually real and everything on the news is true,
communism socialism and capitalism dont work because nothing will because of human greed so we move from one to the other with anarchy in between………its time for change so its time for anarchy fuck uj………. simples
i only went on there because im sick of being a slave where i work for peanuts that you cant even live on, and found i couldnt even look at the job details (im assuming for that i need to register) and i refuse ill look elsewhere fuk em
Spot on! You have hit the nail on the head! This should be a MANDATORY post to read!
@ Richard
I thought not.
If you’re that easily offended by the use of a four-letter “vitriolic” word, you probably should read more – instead of “scanning” through these posts, you could have read them & tried to understand this perspective. But you say you tried and don’t like what you’ve read (my point about the ‘Telegraph’, which I think you “scanned” past too, is that I disagree with almost all of it’s views and so I don’t read it).
I come from a long line of what you term “Class War Idiots” – who worked day-in-and-day-out, struggled to make ends meet more-often-than-not, withheld their labour on occasion (one was a Conscientious Objector). But you have every right to use the term “idiots” and I have every right to find that offensive.
Just finally, all the unemployed ARE the same as those on here – they don’t have any work at this time. They have enough reasons to be angry and and don’t need to be given any more – so it’s time to agree to disagree. It’s been said already but if you were really here to gain understanding and not for any other reason(s) you would be trying to “debate” and so far that hasn’t happened. I don’t need any more answers/helpful suggestions thanks.
“they don’t have any work at this time” should read “they don’t have any Paid work at this time”
Wonder if “Richard” has any connection with the two business he spammed, Hmmm….
The two businesses I spammed? What two businesses? What spam?
@ Shirley
The intelligent, reasonable veneer is clearly not that deep.
Anyone can let fly with a four letter tirade. And some on this forum are pretty adept with this. I don’t blush at the language. My sensibilities are not offended. I just think that the person has no reasoned argument so just vomits insults thinking they are a substitute.
I prefer debating with people I disagree with as I learn more and this helps me clarify my own thinking. This forum is not a place for debate. Self-satisfied, self-righteous people with mile high chips on their shoulders think they are sticking it to the man as bar room lawyers.
What a crying shame. What a waste of life. Maybe you weren’t dealt the best stack of cards. But to just wallow as victims scoring irrelevant minor victories makes you the loser.
Ho hum.
Anarchist
Hackers anonymous are using the internet to get at the powers that be because they are fed up of water cannons when they are out on the street. What I cannot understand is the mentality of those working in the job centres who give out sanctions – the police who enforce the law knowing those that are making the laws are corrupt, prison warders who are guarding anarchists, psychiatrists who are willing to deem you insane/ deluded for opposing govt/corporate corruption or the armed forces who follow orders no matter what. Are they all insane? We could do with a military coup.
On the Government Gateway site about registration –
User ID’s and Activation Codes
Where are they sent to?
They will be sent to the address held by the government department handling the first service you enrolled for.
For each additional service you enrol for, the Activation code will be sent to the address held by the government department handling that service.
Does this mean User ID’s are sent to the DWP ?
After Blair introduced new deal here, they tried to introduce it in France, the unemployed tore up the chairs in the benefit centres and barricaded the staff inside in protest – it was televised here. Why can’t we be more like the French in this respect.
Nowadays is much, much worse than New Deal…
At least you got an extra £15 for intensive activity, there was training, help with interview fares etc
It’s hell on earth now. Sooner, rather than later someone or something is going to crack.
Hell – You cannot even browse the jobs, without having to explain from a stupid drop down list why you don’t want it…
@Cassandra479
“Hell – You cannot even browse the jobs, without having to explain from a stupid drop down list why you don’t want it…”
Because every answer leads to a sanction most likely!
If an “advisor” saves a job to your account there are only 3 ways out:
1. Apply for the job
2. Let the vacancy “expire” – sanction of 13 weeks, increasing to 26 weeks then 3 years
3. Pick something from the “drop-down” box – sanction of 13 weeks, increasing to 26 weeks then 3 years
Talk about laying a trap, you can almost hear the sniggers of whoever was setting it up.
I was speaking about merely browsing through the jobs. Say, I click on one and discover its 15 hours over 5 days 40 miles away. Would not be able to afford the train/bus fares, so I would have to reject it. The site is therefore limiting my job search, and it is also limiting my job search because it does not work
The site is cold, hard, ugly…and it does not work.
It seems that you have to set-up and account to search and apply for jobs. But once the jobcentre finds out you have selected one of those options from the drop-down box… *poof” goes your money.
Because the French education system actually teaches it’s citizens that they have Rights… Though Bliar changed it so that ‘semantically’ we are all now ‘citizens’ in the UK, in actual fact we are still subjects, basically serfs who only have the ‘rights’ our feudal lords grant us… in other words, we have priveliges. The French are actually encouraged to excercise their rights, whilst in the good ‘ol UK hardly anyone seems to be aware that they actually have rights. Oh, the French also had a revolution that ended up with them cutting off the heads of most of the aristocracy and royalty, not that I’m for a moment suggesting that’s what we do here, of course.
Europe generally is far more ready to take to the streets, but that’s usually played down. There is also a lot of taking to the streets in the USA by ordinary people who are likewise being shafted by the state and all the cutbacks just so that the very wealthy can have tax cuts.
Take a look at sites like Indymedia if you want to know more about what’s going on… then start organising something. No need to go mad and hope to solve things in a short while, organisation takes time, needs the right people etc. But it only takes a few like-minded souls to start something off. Not so long ago a whole nation decided to take to the streets and peaceably protest… as a result walls came down and a whole regime collapsed, and a system of almost total surveillance came to an end. We don’t want that here, so let’s make sure that we don’t let it go that far, as the system of surveillance that Cameron, IDS and the Labour pigs are planning makes the Stasi look like amateurs. Only the situation won’t even have the laughable claim that it’s in the interests of the ‘Worker’s and Peasant’s State’ as it’ll be more like Robocop – the corporate state, or fascism.
Can someone do screen prints with all of these drop down menu’s on and post them so we all know what it looks like and what to avoid, as I’m never gonna access this UJ site from my home computer.
“I authorise DWP to view my job data information
DWP can use your basic job data information to search for jobs on your behalf and save them for you. These jobs will appear on your ‘Saved Jobs’ page, as well as in your ‘Job Results’. You can then view, apply or keep them saved for later. While this authorisation is not required, it is highly recommended to help make your job search more successful. Note that DWP will be able to see all your job searching activity, including your notes, feedback and saved searches.”
Anyone who registers with this Universal Jobmatch is an absolute fucking mug!! The miss-information that’s out there regarding UJ is shocking. People seriously don’t believe they have any legal rights and that they might as well sign up because ”if i don’t, i’ll just get a Jobseekers Direction to do it anyway” BOLLOCKS!!!!!! Giving you a jobseekers direction that requires you to give up your legal rights is ILLEGAL. If you are given a Jobseekers Direction to sign up with UJ call the DWP’S bluff and give it straight back saying ”i won’t be mandated to give up my legal rights”. If you accept the Job Seekers direction – you are consenting – DO NOT CONSENT!! You CAN NOT be mandated to give up your legal rights, end of story.
can you afford legal bills when they force you to consent or face no money with a sanction?
Not sure if many people can especially with christmas coming up.
Also is there a link to your legal rights over this?
Has anyone spoken to CAB? – if yes what do they say?
Yes, been to CAB who said: “Here’s the number of law firm who offer legal advice/legal aid” Rang them & the relevant person there was “Full up and not taking any cases until at least January” – trying to find any (free) legal advice was difficult after that & I didn’t manage it but looking at the Data Protection Act (Section 8 from memory) it quite clearly states that you have the right to a private life (to include correspondence etc). It’s not in front of me now. It goes on to state that any person who is responsible for storing (your) Data can’t use it without your consent for purposes such as proving reliability, checking financial details etc. -There is more but it definitely prohibits access to another person’s correspondence (such as job letters and anything else they ‘privately send’) – even, and perhaps especially, if they are ‘priivately sending it online – without their explicit consent.
I’m a lot less informed about the whole ‘Jobseeker’s Direction’ issue as not had the pleasure of one of these so far – it’s hard to see how one of these can override the Act that exists currently as everyone is saying – how could it? But it’s feeling like that doesn’t mean they won’t try or might yet find a way to persuade people that they really have to open an account. We are not at that point yet but there’s enough confusion and worry about it to make people feel uncertain enough to “go along with it” for whatever different reasons …
”Yeah… it’s mandatory to upload your CV on Jobmatch if you’re receiving JSA/ESA now (as of today), also you have to sign your data protection act away when doing it…
” ”You no longer have Data Protection rights when you sign on” ”your money will be stopped for 3 years if you don’t register, you just have to do whatever the jobcentre tells you i’m afraid because when you sign your jsa agreement you accept your giving up your data protection rights in return for the money you get”…..Just a taster of the quite frankly bizarre (and dangerously uninformed) statements that are flying about all over the internet regarding Universal Jobmatch. It’s frightening how little some people seem to know about their rights. No wonder dwp staff get away with murder when some people who sign on are this dumb.
Consent cannot be forced! To be valid it has to be fully informed AND FREELY GIVEN WITHOUT THE THREAT OF PENALTY to be valid consent. My god, just do some basic bloody research.
Twinkle 99 there’s no need for such an arrogant attitude especially as DWP are transgressing all rights and getting away with it because nobody has the resources to take them to court.
It doesn’t actually go to a court, but to a tribunal, and that is unlikely as the DWP have to pay for that, and that isn’t likely to happen as they’d lose. If you refuse it’s more likely to be referred, that is passed up to management who will then no doubt take legal advice to discover that they can’t do what they wanted to. Thank your lucky stars that the relevant DPA Act is the 1998 one, as earlier Act was totally worthless and full of holes. The 1998 Act is quite specific, and is a thorn in the side of any legislator trying to bring in any kind of surveillance scheme like this. Quite simply, spying on your citizens without one of the very narrow sets of justifications is illegal, and that’s just with the UK legislation. The European Declaration of Human Rights, which Bliar signed up to and then tried to wriggle out of is even more clear.
Please, can we have some clarity here, and can people stop panicking and running around like headless chickens? We need to get clued up and inform ourselves of what our rights are. We also need to organise on the ground, start to picket Jobcentres and distribute informative literature – you don’t need to do this outside the Jobcentre you sign on at, you can choose one in another location/town. That makes it very difficult for the DWP to take actions against you.
If you do decide on taking this kind of action, please make sure you do it on public property outside the Jobcentre, and be polite and cooperative with the police when the show up. Explain that you are excercising your right to protest, and if they ask you who is in charge, just say that it’s a spontaneous event, and that there are no leaders. Talk to the police, remember, they are facing huge cuts as well, and stand to lose around 40,000 members, so they are feeling too. And, believe it or not, some of them are actually human beings, (not many, but a few). They have a job to do, and if you’ve given out a few hundred leaflets before they ask you to move on, the action has been a success. Go home and plan the picket of another Jobcentre somewhere else.
I’m not being arrogant. The DWP couldn’t get away with anywhere near as much as they do if (some) people wern’t so apathetic and went along with anything that they’re told by the Jobcentre. When i go sign on, i’ve seen people signing any old document that’s shoved under their nose without even reading it, i swear to god that some of them would sign their own death warrant if told to do so. Find your backbone and fight the bastards. I’ve now had 9 doubts put on my claim whilst signing on (been signing on for 17 months) and i’ve had every single one overturned, purely because i know my rights and i won’t have them denied me.
Too right, a lot of jobsseekers have to get out of the habit of just signing any old crap that is put in front of them. Remember: you signature is a Legal Instrument.
And 4 of those doubts were ”Jobseeker’s Directions”.
300 comments and counting….. 🙂
**And 4 of those doubts were for not following Jobseeker’s Directions**
Signed on this morning – only mention of UJ was whether I was aware of it. Replied yes, but site was not working. Reply was “oh”.
The site is still playing up.
I signed up to this new system which has replaced the old site (which wasn’t broken).
I noticed there is a box saying “I authorise DWP to view my accounts, including job search activity, feedback and notes” which I have left blank (as well as the other one).
I presume they will still be able to see my application history?
I managed to actually apply for one job (i think) and I didn’t even have to write a covering letter!, I presume I can stop going to Ingeus now then?.
Also, I am sure at one time I was told not to apply for jobs that I was not qualified for, anyway, I intend to continue filling in my form with the reference numbers I have applied for using my email and any I have applied for using this site (which doesn’t give you a reference number if you apply using the site) will just have the job title.
I wish the government would stop with this cloud cuckoo land type ideas, there would be no need for this type of thing, or the complete con that is the work programme if there were actual jobs out there.
Still, Merry Christmas everybody!
There is still another “I would like to receive messages from the DWP” check-box which comes pre-ticked!
I unticked that one too, so from what I can gather the form at the JC is just a “paper” version of that box?
So if I was presented with it I could say “Well I unticked the box, so no, I wont sign it?”
I sign on tomorrow, was made aware of the UJ a fortnight ago, still haven’t registered and i don’t think i will and will make sure my legal rights are heard by the JC, even though i was told it was mandatory when it is not, as it’s open to everybody not just jobseekers, what are they gonna do sanction non-jobseekers for not registering either!
twinkle 99
having been signing on for 17 months why have you not been put on workfare? 4 job seekers doubts and 4 refusals is hardly rebellion. So what were the other 2 doubts for since you’ve had 10?
I’ve been signing on for 18 months now… got asked to go to the Jobcentre for an initial pre-Workfare interview. Went along and it all started very nicely, but then I dropped a bombshell… I gave my interviewer a copy of the witholding permission to share information from the consent.me.uk website – in Welsh. The interview was rapidly terminated and after a quick chat with his line manager, (who looked at me daggers!) I was informed that it would be passed to the managers and that I’d hear something within 28 days… something more than 128 days have gone by now, and I’ve still not heard anything.
Since that interview I have of course been doing what I should, searching for jobs, applying when I find anything appropriate and keeping a record and turning up on time every fortnight to sign on
@guy fawkes
I am officially ”on the work programme” but i signed no documents and therefore have no contract with the provider. I refuse to tell them anything, (when they asked me a question i just replied with ”i do not consent to providing you with any information”) as any information that the provider needed that wasn’t sent by the JC requires my consent so the provider has been unable to do bugger all to me.
Over the past 7 months i have only had 3 appointments at my provider as they know they’re flogging a dead horse with me. Also if you read my post correctly, i said that in 17 months i have received 9 doubts on my claim. 4 of the doubts were for failing to follow 4 different jobseeker’s directions. (Interestingly, one of the directions was to register with the previous job brokerage service to UJ but i refused to as it needed my consent) and it was dismissed because the Decision maker knew i knew my rights so overturned the doubt. The other 3 jobseeker’s directions that i refused to carry out were to do with not applying for jobs that i knew were completely unsuitable for me (and could prove they were), once again i had them dismissed. The other 5 doubts were for ”not engaging” with my adviser at appointments. All were overturned again because this ”engaging” was requiring me to provide personal information that was absolutely none of their damn business – once again all were overturned.
The point that i’m trying to make is that (some) people seem to give up far too easily and assume that whatever they are told by Jobcentre staff or the DWP is gospel and must be obeyed – IT ISN’T!! You still have rights. It’s up to you to be pro active and find out what they are because for damn sure the DWP aren’t going to tell you.
So, basically what you are saying is that you are lazy sponging twat who will put more effort into staying on benefits than you ever have to look for work?
Fuck off! Cunt!
how do you know they are sponging? -just because someone knows their rights does not mean they want to stay on benefits.
I want a bloody job and am applying for them using all different means.
I think until you have been unemployed and have not seen or felt the depressing horribleness of it all and also the horrible feeling you get from rejection letters/emails and then the horrible injustice of being blamed by certain areas of the press for having the audacity of being out of work, maybe you should lay off the broad sweeping comments.
Remember (which quite a few people seem to forget), the DWP official figures have shown 0.5% of the registered unemployed (think that is 2.5 million at present) are defrauding the system.
I spent much of my early ife unemployed, claiming JSA, looking for work, getting rejection after rejection, so I know full well what that feels like. The last time I was unemployed was just over 3 years ago, I spent 8 months claiming JSA and hated every moment of it which spurred me on to find myself work, which I eventually did. My problem is people who come on to the internet bragging about how they supposedly beat the system because they “know their rights”. It’s pathetic, stop trying to stay on benefits and go contribute to society.
fair enough, have been unemployed on and off for the last 3 years myself. This last year seems to have been the toughest to even get a reply back from a job application.
Think I might have to go back to volunteering or trying to get my WP to agree to let me do some more training (JC were brilliant at letting me do training and getting skills I needed, now gone to WP and a total change as the WP does not appear to have any money for training, which i have found to be quite annoying).
Even the most humble jobseeker contributes to their fellow humanity in some way. There is more worth to any person than money. We all surely more than economic units.
Thanks for clarifying that twinkle 99 – perhaps other job seekers can do the same and get the same results lets see.
I authorise DWP to view my job data information
DWP can use your basic job data information to search for jobs on your behalf and save them for you. These jobs will appear on your ‘Saved Jobs’ page, as well as in your ‘Job Results’. You can then view, apply or keep them saved for later. While this authorisation is not required, it is highly recommended to help make your job search more successful. Note that DWP will be able to see all your job searching activity, including your notes, feedback and saved searches.
Always read the small print
What a joke if you all spent as much time applying for and searching for work as you do about moaning about it perhaps you’d all be in work. All I’ve just read is a bunch of excuses lazy people say is preventing them from work. If you want to make your lives harder don’t sign up. I’m pretty sure that most advisors don’t want to sanction you all, your biggest enemy is yourself. I would of thought most would welcome the idea of perfectly good jobs being sent to you would appeal but I forgot your willing to do all jobs except that one
Fuck off! Cunt!
There is not enough work to go round. It is a simple enough equation.
Nice of you to join us this evening Heir Duncan Smith……by the way – your a cunt!
Universal Jobmatch the construction of a virtual forced labour camp, did we really believe that 21st Century concentration camps would be constructed with timbers and barbed wire fences.
Ordered to sign-up for Universal Jobmatch 19-11-2012 (Scotland), will probably go for the sanction and then appeal or move the case into the civil courts if possible.
Many times I have not been able to get into my e mail account which seems to happen to a lot of people i.e. wrong password they say – load of bull – so where does that leave someone like me trying to access jobs?
Hi Twinkle
I just wanted to ask did you when you had doubts raised against you by the jobcentre have your money stopped while you proved your point or did you continue to receive your benefit entitlements while the process took place.
Thanks
Rob
Hi Rob, my benefits have never been stopped. When a doubt is raised on your claim you will receive a letter asking you to provide ”good cause” for not doing whatever it is they’ve said you’ve failed to do (they give you so many days to send your response) – your money is unaffected and will only stop if your ”good cause” explanation is not accepted. If they don’t accept your reason you are allowed to appeal and to apply for a ”hardship allowance” in the meantime.
Oh dear! I’m sorry I couldn’t read all of the deluded comments on this page, it was just too cringworthy after a while!
I’m sorry but is it really too much to ask that people who are claiming Jobseekers allowance actually do some jobseeking? Is it too much to ask of the poor dears to show the people who actually pay their benefits that they are doing what is expected?
The majority of what I have just read is fictitious at best and just plain malevolent at worst. Yes DWP can mandate someone to register on Universal Jobmatch however there is NO mandation to allow DWP or anybody else access to your account, that is completely 100% voluntary.
This new site is no different from any other jobsite except that, if you so choose, you can allow jobcentre staff to have access to your account to send messages, view your jobsearch activity and suggest suitable jobs to apply for.
Stop being so damned paranoid!
Fuck off! Cunt!
we will remind you of this when the sanctions start to be handed out (probably in 2 to 4 weeks time).
also useful features are missing from the job search (whole areas of the country are missing), no sort by distance or sort by date feature.
Jobs for comet being advertised (when they have gone into administration)!!
Also lack of any transparency on who actually would be accessing your account.
I do plenty of jobseeking, thank you very much…and I have kept proof of everything I have applied for over the last ten months. There are not enough jobs to go round.
Haha they won’t be mandating me to give up my legal rights sweet cheeks :’)
Ooh, Dogbone, constructive! Well done for managing to spell 3 whole words correctly though!
Yes some areas of the country are missing, that is down to Monster who actually operate the site. There are sort by distance options (down the left hand side of the page) And no one will be accessing your account if you don’t give them permission!
Obviously the sites not perfect, it is a DWP initiative after all! However it’s nothing like it has been described on here, I’m still laughing at the concentration camp analogy!
Monster are a rubbish job search system 😦
Not sure why they used that.
I did not have the option to sort by distance when I checked.
I really think we need some more transparent information from the DWP.
Fuck off! Cunt!
@ Random Man – Fuck Off! Troll!
Can’t disagree with your views on Monster, one can only speculate as to why Monster were chosen to operate Universal Jobmatch.
It would help immensely if things were explained properly before the site was launched but it would also help if people on here checked the facts before going off on some tyrannical rant about how it’s so unfair that they actually have to do something in return for the money they are given.
Fuck off! Cunt!
@ Random Man – Fuck Off! Troll!
Thank God that Random Man has made some accurate comments before I allowed myself to consume my entire lunch-break in retorting to utter, utter nonsense.
Firstly, all this talk about your human rights being violated etc…grow up. The first thing you do when YOU sign on to receive your benefit is to GIVE this information up anyway. Asking you to do it online through a government-regulated site is just a way of confirming certain things – such as having a CV. You wouldn’t believe the amount of people who have signed for years and still do not have a CV – the simplest, most effective tool in getting a job.
For the record, I’d like to point out that I currently work in the Jobcentre on a temporary basis, and my opinions are in no way that of the DWP. I have been writing CVs for everyone – new signers, Work Program, the lot. I’ve also been assisting with computer skills and getting people digitally included with e-mail addresses etc. I’ll admit, this is a unique service that I’m providing as no other jobcentre does it (as far as I’m aware). However, asking you to do upload it onto this site allows the JCP to check that you ARE actually looking for work. Writing some companies on a piece of paper just isn’t good enough to show that you are trying your best.
Because that, at the end of the day, is what it comes down to. If you are trying your best, you have nothing to fear. It is those of you that EXPECT and DEMAND money for contributing NOTHING, that will hopefully be on the receiving end of a nasty shock.
Fuck off! Cunt!
Oh dear, another deluded ignoramus who has never heard of the Data Protection Act. Putting a personal document like a cv on a job brokerage service requires consent! I’m afraid the dwp can’t force anybody to do that against their will dear. I never consented to joining the last one they had (which they could do naff all about) and i won’t be joining this one either.
So despite the the “paranoid delusions” on this site as you put it, it is true: one of the main aims of Universal Jobmatch is to make it easier to sanction claimants.
I’m sure you’ll be amply rewarded with a nice job stoking the ovens when they’re set up. I bet you’ve signed up to the waiting list to join the neo SS already. You are just a Gestapo type swine who will probably get your come uppance one of these fine days. It’s up to the state to prove that we aren’t doing enough, not for us to be virtually imprisoned with compulsory electronic surveillance. We may not have to allow consent, but that’s not going to stop an illegal and unlawful government without a mandate from snooping on us without our permission, and that’s what will happen, they have posession of our data if we sign up to this, and possession, as we all know, is nine-tenths of the law. Give the bastards no more than you absolutely have to, and then make sure that they can’t make use of your data by witholding permission.
DWP staff guy.
Those who expect not demand money are human beings looking for work that does not exist for the majority of them. Labour exchanges as I knew them used to offer the unemployed real vacancies and there was none of this c.v. crap, you were sent straight from the labour exchange for an interview if you were capable of doing that job based on your experience which the labour exchange held, and they were all local,not up to 50 miles away.
Governments are doing anything to try and create jobs for people like you who hold their twisted, egotistical views and are prepared to sanction and leave people destitute because they refuse to jump through hoops not that they are not interested in working.
I’m currently awaiting an operation to remove metal work from my ankle so I can walk properly again, and am on ESA however, I log on to JCP every day to look for and apply for jobs…. SHOCK I can’t get over this new site it’s the best thing I’ve ever seen!
You get to disclose your address and phone number via your Monster hosted CV site…..to every tom dick or harry who CLAIM to be an employer! Get a grip!
Is this IDS way of getting a vote of no confidence early, so the tories get in under the blanket?…. I don’t think so and MR Egg head clearly has no grasp of what is going on at the moment!
I’m trying to be objective but … you know what ,Fuck IT…. Get out of my face this government has to go NOW.
Do not under any circumstance throw away your right to privacy by signing (or check boxing) the right to plundered by Anyone who claims to be an employer, This can only end in one way, Badly for ‘000 of people who will inevitably be sanctioned …. God help them.
I paid £40 today out of my benefit to pay for my Virgin services…. I’m in contract so have no way out. After paying Gas and Electric and TV license, I had £30 to spend on food and living expenses for 2 weeks. I’m sure many people are worse off than me and cannot bear the thought of a sanction.
So just think about this IDS,
What mental state do you expect any job seeker to be in cum interview?
Enough is enough time is time, You’ve had yours now GET LOST.
Richard the WUM. Nice try but I’m afraid I can only give you 3/10.
To Random man
Stop trying to put the onus on the unemployed to look for jobs that is what the jobcentre and it’s staff are there for – it is them that are the lazy buggers just what do they do all day?
I do hope that is sarcasm!
The self pity in this thread is astounding, I can’t believe that such a mindset still exists in the 21st century.
The long and short of it is this, no one has made you claim benefits, its a choice. If you make this choice then you adhere to the rules. It’s simple really.
I have to say that I do not understand people like you. People are not claiming benefits as a choice of life but because they have no other choices left. What seems simple to you just boils down to a lack of imagination or empathy.
Anyway if there aren’t enough job to go around, which there most clearly are not, just what is wrong with an individual deciding they are content to live on the minimal level of benefit(which was supposedly the minimum amount possible to live on at least 30 years ago and hasn’t kept pace with inflation any time since)? Surely it just makes it easier for those want to find a job, but can’t, to do so.
Cut the hours of everyone who is in work and share out the work and the pay among everyone. Unemployment solved. People on benefits now have a job and a decent wage, Everyone contributing their taxes and paying their way. Who could possibly object? Oh yes, the people who want to jealously guard their own incomes and are generally the most vociferous about people getting benefits.
Jobcentre staff are solely there to (try to) make the lives of the unemployed a misery, and they spend most of their time sanctioning and penalising claimants – it gives them a kick as they have such miserable, boring and mundane lives outside the jobcentre. I bet JCP advisers dream about sanctioning claimants and have a toss thinking of raising compliance doubts. Who pays the wages of scrounging JCP staff anyway – the taxpayer, so I think the JCP staff should get off their fat arses and do something more productive than press a sanction key on a computer all day long. JCP staff should contribute to GDP rather than scrounge off it.
At least doctors, nurses and the councils do a worthwhile job using taxpayer’s money – DWP just squander it, by the million on useless penal schemes. They spend more on the stupid work programme and other “reforms” than they spend on JSA claims in a year. IDS is being paid a fortune in taxpayers money just to end up the most hated man after Cameron in the whole of the UK. Even Hitler would have been proud of IDS!
Random Man = Troll, not worth the bother of a reply to.
Actually it is the JCP staff who could be the key agitators here by refusing to implement the system. Support them in this because they will be putting their necks on the line.
@ Richard
If you’re going to use “Random Man” as a pseudonym to spout your right-wing venom, it might be an idea to change your writing style for your alter-ego. It’s kinda obvious at the moment.
@ R33
Good grief. A conspiracy at every turn. I have only used Richard – my real first name – in all my posts.
If you don’t like my views by all means explain why. Criticising me for words I have not written or a background you have no knowledge of is just plain silly. It says nothing about me and everything about you.
You are not fooling anyone – “Richard”/”Random Man”. You have been rumbled, when you going to ‘fess up?
“The long and short of it is this, no one has made you claim benefits, its a choice. If you make this choice then you adhere to the rules. It’s simple really.
You believe choosing to starve is a viable choice? It’s clear you would like the unemployed to make that choice, but most people don’t believe that being out of work is deserving of death.
For all the readers who simply think we enjoy all this defence of our liberty and rights to life. Who think we all have cars, sky tv, 3 games consoles, drink, do drugs and generally have a ball on £71 per week. Oh, and getting the rent paid too, etc.
I can see your point and why you might think we are all just avoiding work, and most likely a few are, of course. But nowhere near the number that the government would have you believe! That’s called propaganda.
Get the masses to resent that their taxes are paying for the workshy, which are just a small percentage of the total figure. But many are so blinkered and naive to reality that they just think in soundbites, knee jerk responses. Ignorance basically. Not all, some like the above at least seem to be open to reason, if valid arguments are put forward. Not that anyone should have to justify themselves. Especially if they are decent people,there only ‘crime’ being out of a job. Maybe a few have given up to some degree too. Everyone is different.
The reality is that the economic situation, the country as a whole is slowly being brought to it’s knees. Even if you are working! You aren’t out of the woods. Below a certain income bracket and you will feel the jackboots of tyranny upon your person before too long.
I would dearly love there to be more jobs advertised that were suitable for me to apply for. I have qualifications and experience in technical roles.
Had a good go at getting a business up and running, invested all i had, took a chance, broke even, no profit. Had to wind that up and couldn’t get a job, savings dwindled, so had to sign on eventually. Been unemployed for a few years now. Ashamed? No, not at all. That’s why we all pay tax, to claim benefits is a right. not the best way of life, but to punish people the way they do these days. I’m actually ashamed to live in such a backwards society.
I’ve watched as the job market has dwindled over the past couple of years, teamed with the increase in pressure on the unemployed. Basically we are regarded as lab rats. Biological machines to be ‘put to work’, zero compassion, fantasy world expectations.
Live and let live, there will always be unemployed, well at least until such time we are all driven insane, starved etc. The disabled getting hassled far too much too. It’s horrid, unemployed people are human too. Some of us truly know within our hearts and minds what is right and what is wrong. If it wasn’t for my friends and family I could be sleeping rough, face a criminal record for stealing food. It’s a very strong possibiltty that if my circumstances were different I could be dead by now.
And a work programme provider would have my blood on their hands.
They are the true benefit cheats. We would like a fair deal, that’s all.
It is all disproportionate, coercive and wrong! We are being punished, not helped at all. That’s why we rebel.
Not for the reasons you critics speculate. Many of you might think a little more. perhaps you have never been at the sharp end of the system, maybe you have been lucky, or had the breaks. Worked hard? Yeah, that too. Try a little thought, develop some impartiality and try a little compassion. It’s actually good for you. You will be better human being for it.
We are not all bad down here in Poorsville, just struggling a bit. Some a lot! Tough times do have a tendency to make some of us a little angry.
I personally don’t contribute on these boards for a pissing contest.
Just truth. I learn to tune out the trolls on both sides of the fence. And deal with reality. I believe in free expression, free speech. There is only a big manufactured fuss about all this because they fear it’s power when used correctly.
Read, absorb, discern. No agenda, other than trying to survive in this crazy so called civilised society.
Ooh, that was a nice ramble, haven’t had a good ramble for a while.
Or was it a rant? Smile people. don’t let them take that away from you too.
You speak sense – but alas it will fall on deaf ears, as most of the public seem to enjoy reading about benefits scrounging families with 10 kids that live in £350,000 houses courtesy of the taxpayer, that get printed in the Sun.
There is only 1 way now – civil disobedience on a massive scale. Make IDS sorry he ever chose to pick a fight with the poor in this country, because soon, it wont be just the unemployed and the sick that want to rebel – it will be most people on low incomes – that currently work, but claim benefits to give them enough to live on.
I am sick and tired of this vile government and its love of the rich, whilst it tramples all over the poor.
So, in the words of our good friend DogBone:
Fuck Workfare.
Fuck Jobcentre Plus
Fuck the Work Programme
Fuck Universal Credit
Fuck Universal Jobmatch
Fuck the surveillance society
Fuck the Welfare Reform Act,
Fuck the Big Society
Fuck BIG PLC and their greedy profits
Fuck the Bankers
Fuck the Right Wing Press
Fuck the Trolls
Fuck David Cameron
and above all, – Fuck IDS!!!
Oooh tetchy!
C’mon gis a break, Its time really time we all stood up and got our knobs out and did what the miners did in the 80’s.
Stand up to a bullshit rightwing govt who are lets face it, lining their own pockets before the country goes ape in 2015.
If you are a con/dem seat holder, hold on for the ride of your life!
Nae one (i wanted to use the c word…as ye do in Glasgey!) on this earth And I presume as torries think that Britain is the earth,
thinks that you you will be in power come may 2015 and POWER is the watch word!
You think that you own our Green and pleasant land well as us jocks say ….. THINK AGAIN!
Now just cos I’m Scottish don’t think that I’m biased, Far from it! I’ve had the chance to work (luck bastard) in all 4 corners of the UK including ‘the province’ so what’s really wrong here? I’ll tell you now with bells and whistles,
Ordinary folk are being pissed on ….Not just Job seekers but look at this…
Why are so many jobs out there ‘Part time’? …because the employer relinquishes the moral fibre to treat all workers with the same rights.
OK so you think I’m daft well ok look at this for a scenario….
We’ll employ you 16 hours or less depending on our business needs..
Fine untill you come to the clause that says you must be flexible and work at the drop of a hat on our say so….
Great so you cant work for eg 8-2 in one job then skittle off to another starting say 6 – 10pm because your already tied to 1 employer… BULLSHIT
does anyone get me?
I’m at my wits end and to hell with Brittain…
I’m gonna go to Scarbourgh and become a self employed Creel (lobster) fisherman. Then claim share fishermans dole for when I cant put to sea because of bad weather, claim income support and housing benefit etc etc NO NO NO I Just want the opertunity to work in Scotland so Up the government up the MP’s expenses and Up the lot!
PS NAE ONE SIGN OR CHECH(box) DWP forms that invade your privacy!
Good luck every one OVER and OUT. xxx
Random man
It may have escaped your notice but a lot of people who are unemployed paid into a system for years that was supposed to provide for them if and when they became unemployed, sick or a poor pensioner. As most of that money is being paid to rich pensioners such as John Snow who is claiming statutory pension, working for channel 4, claiming heating allowance and travel reductions all courtesy of the welfare state irrespective of the fact that rich people were never supposed to claim from the welfare state, it was changed to suit the greedy upper classes who were paying national insurance so wanted something from it whether they needed it or not such as child benefit paid to millionaires for years, a bloody disgrace.
Then you have the cheek to tell those who are really in need of state help that they should be towing the line or following rules in order to claim something they have ACTUALLY PAID FOR , I suggest you and your friend Richard should go and find somewhere else to preach preferably Tory Party headquarters. To Richard I would also like to say, the tax payer is not an investor in the unemployed so cannot be equated with your analogy that investors in your company want to know how their money is being spent.
@ guy fawkes
It is an interesting question whether the tax payer invests in our education, our health and our employment. The better shape we are in the more we contribute back as tax payers. I don’t think the investor analogy is totally equivalent however some will see it this way.
But nor is benefit an insurance policy. If it were, what would happen when the person has not contributed premiums in the first place? Are they refused support?
In the UK we support based on need and not based upon contribution. I think this gives the state the right to know what we are doing to cease our need for support.
You don’t understand how insurance policies work. If you took out content insurance and then had a fire a couple of months later would you accept them not paying out because you hadn’t given them enough money yet?
@ Johnny void
I think you have missed my point. The person who has never worked and thus never paid taxes still receives state benefits. If you don’t have contents insurance / have not paid a single premium you don’t get a payout if there is a fire.
So you are saying if you pay for something you don’t have to follow the rules? Would you pay to go somewhere such as Alton Towers and then tell them that because you have paid you can do what you like?
Millions of people have paid into the system and taken little if nothing out, I fuly agree that people such as John Snow who in no way need help from the benefit system should not be able to claim a penny, but then, using your own logic, if they have paid for it why shouldn’t they claim it?
You can’t have things both ways.
In regards to Jobseekers Allowance, it is what it says, an allowance to do jobseeking, if you are not doing jobseeking then you shouldn’t get the allowance. If you were in work and you refused to do your job you wouldn’t get paid, this is the same principle.
I am aware the jobmarket is not exactly flourishing at present, to put things politely, it is hard to find work but still some people are managing. Statistically the majority of people claiming JSA find work within the first 13 weeks of making a claim, now if all these people are able to find work then it shows that, although it may be tough, it’s certainly not impossible.
It is only called jobseekers allowance because someone thought it would appeal to right wing swing voters to change the name from unemployment benefit. If they changed the name to mass murderers allowance would you argue that it was only right that claimants didn’t get paid if they hadn’t murdered sufficient numbers that week?
@ Graham Hughes:
I know you’ve not used the ‘mass murderer allowance’ example to try to be funny – the opposite – but that is the funniest thing I’ve read recently – as well as being the most sobering. Anyone who’d like to take this line of argument to its logical conclusion is starting to find themselves with mainstream political support for what they would really like to do. And you’re exactly right -it’s all about the language being used and about
re-naming to indicate ‘moral values’. (UC – “Universal” credit – it sounds lovely and so fair – it treats everyone in a ‘universal way’ – it must be a great thing! “Anyone on it should feel themselves really lucky and looked after”). I’m scaring myself now.
Change the wording; use convoluted terminology (doublespeak). It’s far easier to cloud the issue with the use of semantics & gain support from (guess who – those who are looking for an excuse to follow this line of argument & just need it to be conveniently packaged and legitimised). Once they have their prejudices confirmed out loud by someone ‘in authority’ – anyone (but preferably someone with power over the lives of others) it starts to become easy to put ever-more extreme views out there (they might sound a bit unusual to some at first but just keep using the same tactic and everything can be justified in the end). Just as long as the groundwork has first been laid by pointing to a group(s) of clearly-labelled scapegoats.
Have just been checking out a new ISP as Talk Talk is pants.
However, for what I can afford, the other service providers offer weekend evening calls and limited broadband usage. To be on the internet browsing for 35 hours will mean more expensive packages or a crappy Talk Talk one that is like being on dial up when it isn’t going off line.
That is of course if you have a computer. You cannot use a library one for more than 4 hours per day.
This is yet another half baked cloud cuckooland scheme and the angry levels get cranked up yet again by the wind up merchants in government.
WTF is their problem?
Heck, never mind 4 hours a day, our library is a van that calls for 15 minute a week. No internet in it either.
I’m absolutely gagging for them to try this universal jobmatch shite on with me when i go sign on on thursday. I’ll be wearing my button spycam to film the fun and games and i’ll be uploading it to youtube if anyone fancies watching lol I was hoping that they’d say something to me about registering when i last signed on on the 8th but no not a dickybird was said – bleedin’ typical! Anyway, i’ll let you all know how i got on and if i do upload the footage (i’ll only putting it on youtube if i think it’s worth watching) hopefully you’ll check my vid out…..tara for a bit 🙂
I have a feeling they will just ask if you have signed up yet and leave it at that. That is what mine did (I was expecting a bit of argy bargy verbal with them, but was surprised nothing happened).
Richard
What you don’t want to understand is NATIONAL INSURANCE was just that- an insurance policy against the wants of society, that is why it was paid separately from income tax and why this government is trying to undermine it by telling employers they can opt out of it.
The rich who are taking from it couldn’t give a stuff if it goes under, it means they don’t have to contribute and their pocket money, which they receive from it will be stopped, but it is a matter of life and death to the unemployed whether they have paid into the system or not and they do not need fascist dictats to look for something that doesn’t exist – jobs.
The reason for that is due to the failure of successive governments employments strategies that fail the unemployed but push more state money to service providers, probably Tory and Labour donators.
The CBI is worse than useless in all of this, all they propose is to rob the unemployed to give grants to businesses, we had all that crap under Thatcher. Goods were being over produced and when the grants ran out so did the employers – they can’t stand on their own two feet either, they either want grants or tax incentives that is if they are not already either avoiding or evading tax, so don’t preach to the unemployed.
What do they teach you lot in your posh schools, how to rob the poor? How to manipulate yourselves into positions of power even though most of you have no imagination or morals. When real working class people were in positions of power the welfare state was founded going down in history as a monument to society, nothing but misery is produced when the middle/upper classes attain power except charities.
@ guy fawkes
I think the welfare system is one of the things that makes this country special. It was intended as a safety net and I would not like to live in a country that did not have this.
I do believe it has gone from safety net to lifestyle choice for a MINORITY (in caps in case you miss it – I am NOT saying the majority abuse the system). I object to an unemployed person who states that a job is beneath them and they prefer to stay on benefits. Or that they are only £10 a week better off in a low paid job so they may as well stay on benefits. To me this is unacceptable.
This entire debate stemmed from people complaining that Universal Jobmatch tracked their job search activities and provided this information to Jobcentre Plus and that this infringed the benefit claimant’s ‘rights’. Some are taking this and turning it into the rich oppressing the masses etc. I just see it as a reasonable requirement that someone who is claiming benefits should be transparent about their job search activities. Several people have mentioned 35 hours per week. Whilst this may be what an employed person often does in return for an income, I don’t believe jobseekers are expected to do this much. However a couple of hours a day is not unreasonable.
Richard, your nauseating rhetoric is sooooo… transparent, why don’t you just do us all a favour and piss off…
@ becky
“sooooo … transparent” – meaning? And your problem with transparency?
“and piss off” – because you don’t like views that are not your own? Perhaps you just prefer to sit around smugly criticising those tossers over there. Never worrying about facts or opposing opinions and just taking comfort from the fact you all agree with each other.
Random man
Instead of trying to distort the aims and objectives of the welfare state i.e. if John Snow has paid into it why shouldn’t he take something out, because like car insurance he is not in a claims situation – end of. Stop trying to ingratiate yourself with working class tax payers because most of them are sympathetic to the fact there is little or no work, after all it is their relatives in many cases that are suffering and other than the national front lot can see through your rhetoric.
As for talking down to dog bone about being able to spell 3 word, there have been many millionaires born from the working class who can neither read nor write, but are shrewd business operators, they probable swear too, so GET LOST.
@guy fawkes
The John Snow analogy was originally mentioned by yourself stating that someone such as him should not be able to claim benefit, and I totally agree. But you then contradict yourself by saying that as you have paid into the system you can do what you like with it, surely you are not suggesting it’s one rule for you and another for someone else?
As for Dog Bone, his entire vocabulary seems to consist of 3 words “Fuck off, cunt”, it’s hardly a constructive contribution to the discussion is it??
I’m not adverse to completely abusing the queens English from time to time myself, however, if you are going to troll forums just repeatedly posting the same comments then I reserve to right to reply in a facetious manner!
@ Random indeed:
When you say you’re not “adverse” to “abusing the queens English” do you mean to say you’re not ‘averse’? And who exactly are the male homosexuals that you don’t mind completely abusing (the way that they speak)?
(I’m not a religious person but isn’t there something about first removing the plank from your own eye before criticising the mote in somebody else’s)??
No, I think you’ll find I meant adverse (being or acting in a contrary direction; opposed or opposing – Dictionary defition). As for the male homosexuals you speak off, I must admit I am completely confused, I do hope you are not being homophobic as I would prefer not to engage in a discussion which displays any form of discrimination or prejudice.
FUCK OFF! CUNT!
Richard
You do not know your history. Job seekers allowance is actually unemployment benefit in it’s original form, it was paid from offices that had no security guards as was not controversial and it was the labour exchange workers who processed vacancies to suitable applicants, the unemployed for their part attended interviews for said jobs that were real not made up ones to make it look like there is employment, they did not have people travel all over the country for perhaps six months work at most, nor did they have to produce c.v.’s to be thrown into the bin. Working class tax payers at the time considered such a system fair and reasonable. Get real, tax payers are complaining about those evading or avoiding tax not the unemployed, who should pay tax only if they have a decent living wage which the tories are trying to provide out of benefit sanctions or by undermining national insurance CONTRIBUTIONS which is not a tax.
Richard conveniently forgot to mention Vodafone’s £40 BILLION pound un-paid tax-dodgers as well as the other corporate tax-dodging scum such as Google, Amazon and Starbucks who pay NO tax in the UK.
Many workers (after growing up in households without the safety net of any kind of benefit) had such a strong work ethic (& passed it on to their own children – today’s adults) that they would not consider the idea of going to the UB office even when industry was closing down (in the 70s and 80s). It was thought to be ‘a loss of dignity’ – and it had generally always been possible to find another job. It would be against everything they believed about themselves. (eg. Yosser Hughes was a fictional case in point but there were many more like him).
Once it started to become clear that there wasn’t enough work for everyone any longer & that finding similar or other suitable work when jobs ‘went’ was no longer ‘the norm’ – in the 60s/70s many hadn’t been in higher education and so might be looking for (eg) non-existent jobs in industry and manual work – only then did many people, for the first time in their adult lives, feel they had no option but to sign-on. This was felt to be shameful and caused massive distress in many households (it’s not that different today). It was generally felt that accepting state help was a last resort (it still is now for lots of people who would use up their savings first if they have them). This was after having paid their stamps and etc. since the age of (in many cases) 15/16 years old – so strong was their work ethic. Unlike today, one wage generally used to be enough for a whole family to live on – so someone could stay at home or work part-time and the money did not have to cover childcare/two lots of travelling to work expenses etc.
Who knew that these were “the good old days”.
Most people, til more recently, could expect to work for a living throughout most of their life. Conditions might not always have been great – but they could progress in a company/save/buy a house/maybe even have a holiday once a year and the job would usually continue on (now we have 12 and even 11 month contracts; and ‘temporary’ work is far more usual). Without job creation and with the cost of living way ahead of income(s) where they exist it’s a no-brainer that many are struggling (whether they are in or out of work) today – I’m sure all of this is in the papers (somewhere).
So for anyone who has any of this in their background (or is even a bit politicised or has a memory or a brain) the last thing they can accept whilst not having any (meaningful or even meaningless) paid work is to feel that the unemployed are being criminalised and blamed for everything that’s gone wrong with the economy/families/young people – you name it really. It’s our fault – WE SHOULD BE AT WORK!
@ shirleynott
Shirley – I agree with you.
The people you describe have my sympathy and support (not that I think they want sympathy and support). I know that some of the posts on this site are from angry and desperate people and, perhaps understandably, not always reasoned. But some of the posts are from people who seem to think success is ducking personal responsibility and avoiding getting a job.
FUCK OFF! CUNT!
Richard
Ok. That’s fine as far as it goes but generalisations are best avoided (in general) so let’s agree to disagree on what ‘people’ may or may not think defines success.
If we wanted to read arrogant, ignorant, dishonest, insincere, smug, self-satisfied, self-righteous, sadistic, victim blaming, judgmental, right-wing comments, we would go to the Daily Mail, not come to this site. We already know what your views are, we’ve heard them a million times before.
@ R33
I think we can leave the ignorant, dishonest, smug, self-satisfied, self-righteous and judgmental to you.
You clearly have not read what I have written. You just see a post with my name, refer to that massive chip on your shoulder, and blame me for all you consider typical of your class enemy.
You are simply dogbone with a slightly wider vocabulary.
Don’t bother replying. I won’t be responding to your comments.
Patronising bunkum.
You only have sympathy insofar as it satisfies your need to feel good about yourself.
You want to try and stay reasonable when the government insists on blaming you for its own economic failures then punishes you by making life even more difficult.
You haven’t a clue what it is like, but make sweeping condescending statements.
You make ad hominem statements about people being shirkers when you clearly have no insight into their personal circumstances.
It’s one thing to sit on high passing judgement, it is another scraping a living and being told to spend 35 hours per week looking for work. Good grief, it takes 30 minutes to see there is naff all suitable within travelling distance. The rest of the time will be spent in pointless repetition of online form filling for the sake of it.
At least we could be honest about it and recognise it as the Keynesian hole digging/filling back in for what it is.
FYI a friend applied for 6 jobs at Tescos but was informed by the JCP worker that because they were for the same company it only counted as one application.
This is the sort of bureaucratic bullshit that genuine jobseekers have to swallow for their pittance.
So you can take your condescending abstract musings and shove ’em up your drainpipe old fruit, because, as our American friends say, they ain’t worth jack shit.
Don’t bother replying cos it will only be more of the same crap and my appetite is dodgy enough as it is and I really need to eat a good meal for once. Thank you.
I am staggered that a person with your wisdom and insight into what others are thinking and mean is unemployed. Surely thousands of employers would leap at the opportunity to hire you. Hell – they can be negotiating deals and just remotely consult with you to know everything about the other party’s background, mindset and intentions.
For once I feel like quoting our dear friend dogbone.
Well you just had to There goes my appetite.
What you are thinking has been splattered all over this blog.
If you had the slightest iota of sympathy you haven’t shown any sign of it.
Some of us have to live it, and while we do so people like you like to sneer and poke at us. Quote who you like it doesn’t change that.
Again you have no clue as to where I live and what the job prospects are here, any more than you know what other’s situations are. And yet you accuse me of not knowing you are thinking. Good grief Charlie Brown
^ This sick right-wing creature Richard, getting immense pleasure from taunting the unemployed about their not having a job. The depths of human depravity on full display.
It is high earning two income families that has contributed to the explosion in house prices and the rise in the cost of living, and while their jobs and salaries are still secure they are the ones that fuel the right wing policy makers.
I worked for Gingerbread during the Thatcher years and I can tell you then as now the average single parent could never earn enough to get them out of the poverty trap even if they worked twenty four hours a day and they only received a rise in child benefit or were able to keep any maintenance pay from the fathers if they were in full time work and off benefits, sometimes working unsociable hours and rarely had time for their children.
The two income families from all classes couldn’t give a damn if they left them or any single low earner behind. The rhetoric from the Thatcher government demonizing them despite the fact many were there through no fault of their own was atrocious – where was women’s solidarity then or now?
Part of the problem, in fact the whole problem, is the high-earning two income families like you Richard who gobbled up all the “credit” the bankers were handing out and who enjoyed the “boom years” (in house prices) as they boated at dinner parties about how much their fucking “portfolio” was worth and how they were mew-ing (Mortage Equity Withdrawal) for the latest gazz-guzzling 4×4. The poor and those on unemployment, sickness and disability benefits are not responsible for the economic woes of this country. It is you Richard and your middle-class smug toff chums and your complicity with the bankers. Now the poor have to pay the price as the price of everyday essential is being driven up to “inflate” away your debt. Admittedly, Dog Bone may not be the most eloquent of contributors on here but I am sure many others share their sentiments towards you. Now F!”£ O!”!
@ Maggie
Ironically you are wrong. Notwithstanding that your presumptions about me are as inaccurate as those of all the other class war morons looking for an archetype to hate. Inflation only has a minimal impact on the poor. It is the middle classes with savings who get hammered, especially those close to retirement. Inflation results in the money they have saved being worth considerably less by the time they look to spend it. Those who live off the state tend to get index linked payments.
The supposed prosperity fueled by unsustainable borrowing and the resultant house price inflation that saw homeowners marveling at how their house value meant they were so much better off also saw a consequent massive rise in house rents. (For example 30 years ago I was renting a three bedroomed furnished cottage for £8 a week.) Whenever anyone pointed out that this was making housing unaffordable for the poorest sectors of society the response from those in power was that they would not be affected as they could claim housing benefit. Now the housing benefit budget is being targeted because it is supposedly costing too much money and people are being forced to leave their homes because they can no longer afford to live on them.
Graham
This is a fair point. However major contributors to house price inflation are our expanding population combined with family breakdowns stoking demand and restrictive planning laws preventing new builds. The credit crunch and lack of cash for social housing have made a difficult situation even worse.
” Inflation only has a minimal impact on the poor.”
nope
A greater proportion of income will be spent on necessities (No Richard, that DOES NOT mean booze and fags) inflation will erode standards of living for those on low incomes more than those with higher incomes.
Since the middle classes are presumably NOT living solely off interest earned on savings but off higher wages they will be relatively less affected by inflation. Sure they may have to cut back on a few luxuries, but it won’t come down to choosing whether to eat or heat.
Paul
You are right. It is not so simple. Those on index linked benefits are not badly affected by inflation. Those on low incomes are. The middle classes with mortgages do well. The elderly with savings do the worst.
I don’t know if what I was trying to say was very clear earlier in reply to your post mentioning National Insurance contributions. It just set me off down memory lane to the dim and distant past & the world my parents lived in – after that I think I lost the plot a bit & went on a confused-sounding waffle (see below).
Just to (try to) be a bit clearer:
I don’t think it’s right to have any kind of ‘issues’ around accepting “state help” – (but I was remembering discussions when I was quite young when – having always believed in the principle that everyone paid in so they could take-out when needed to – there was a ‘heated debate’ about the need for take-up at a personal – with probably the more realistic one of them saying “we need to and it’s our right” and the other one trying to “tough it out” (post-redundancy). These were very
anti-Thatcher people (hated her and her handbag and her lies with a passion), always voted (Labour), opposed the miners strike etc. etc. but their upbringings somehow led them to believe they shouldn’t accept their entitlement (?!) – it would be fine for others but they shouldn’t need to (again?!). They were proud to be from working class backgrounds (but were probably a bit ‘too proud’).
If I thought about it a bit more instead of rushing to talk about “the good old days” I wouldn’t have made generalisations from one experience that “one wage was enough” back then. It should have read “one-and-a-half working class-type wages” (as in: one fairly low, and the other low-paid) could have been (at certain times over the last 20-30 years) ‘enough’ (relatively) – to feed a family.
(?Unfortunately) It’s not been within my experience (yet) to live in a high-income family of any kind (I’ve visited them) – ditto houses (I know they are available to buy in theory) but with regard to what makes them so unaffordable – I am rubbish at economics – the only bit of this I understand is about diminishing returns. I have failed exams in the subject, so I know I’m not good at understanding the mechanics. I know I should try harder with this (it would avoid the need to be so subjective & I could be a bit more articulate on here).
A final thing is that I didn’t mean to overdo using the term “work ethic” – it’s not something I usually go around saying in everyday conversation – it’s not my preferred term for how I feel about society and what it’s moral values should be (so was trying to use it – I think – in a historical context). It sounds really outdated now (& patronising?) – what is a “work ethic” and why should we have to have one? I understand there’s a need to eat and keep warm and this translates as a need to earn money for most but everyone is good at different things and I tend to think that work ‘for money’ is over-rated. It’s mainly good for paying the bills but ideally it would be something we ‘felt like doing & enjoyed’ (It’s late – I must be dreaming).
I hope this doesn’t all sound like protesting too much. I do know about Gingerbread and about being a single parent and I know there is no way the vast majority don’t struggle with covering the cost of everything. I’ve one or two friends who are in high-earning couples and recently even there (the higher-earner in the couple)’s job has ‘disappeared’ so there is pressure on them to ‘manage’ too. Contrary to what Richard thinks, it’s really easy to feel badly educated/ill-informed on this site (& to go on a bit)…
Note to self: The best thing to do in the middle of the night is go to sleep.
The above should (obviously) read: .. (who) “SUPPORTED” the miners when they were on strike ….
If anyone knows of a way to improve night-time editing … coffee is starting to lose any effect it ever had – probably ended up writing “opposed” due to a huge caffeine overdose come to think of it …
It’s one of the oldest tricks in the book. In times past Jews, blacks etc. were used as scapegoats for all of society’s ills. It’s much more easy to unite people around the flag of hatred than love an in our era and in this country it is welfare claimants who must take the wrap for an economy wrecked by the greedy. Has there ever been a better time in modern history to be rich in this country? – tax avoidance is no longer an ethical issue (ignore the lip service of the politicians and supposed crackdowns), bonuses and commissions that have ruined the principle of giving good and honest customer service, fraud no longer treated as fraud, never a month seeming to go without another bank fiddle being exposed, a constant stream of adverts for claims companies on the TV, people who would have been imprisoned as loan sharks before the rise of Blatcherism can now freely advertise on TV and rip-off the financial naive, politicians who will rip-off the system with impunity and then without blushing pontificate about the morality of benefit claimants, people with cancer being forced back into a non existent job market, the low life of the Sun and the rest of the tabloid press with the temerity to preach morality to the rest of the community.
Whether you agreed with them or not there was at one time plenty of people in politics who had a deep sense of public service and actually had principles that encompassed not just themselves and their peer group but the country as a whole. Blairism gave us the fully formed version of the culture of spin that has been adopted by all parties as the norm now – truth is something malleable and can be shaped without any issues of conscience getting in the way. How low can any party sink as the Lib-Dems who sold their soul for a short time in the political sunshine.? The Conservative party has had it heart ripped out completely and I cannot remember in the past fifty years the country being run by people of such low standing. White means black. If they say One Nation it means they are about to embark on highly divisive social engineering. If they say we must compete and run the race against other nations they fail to point out it can mean working for $5.00 a week in a sweat shop. If they say we must live within our resources it means picking on the poor and turning a blind eye to what their peer group is doing – the rich.
Most of the propaganda techniques we see today were pioneered during the era of fascism and the rise of the mass media. There doesn’t have to any conspiracy as such. If the owners of the media and senior executives are in the high earning category of society there is a convergence of interests that seeks to focus on welfare costs and not on recovery of taxes from people like themselves. There doesn’t have to a conspiracy in ripping off the country with energy charges – the small number of players understand perfectly well they are all reading off the same hymn sheet titled “Greed is Good”. Why should they think it wrong when our politicians seem to do they same thing and the only ethical consideration is “Don’t get caught”
Something is very wrong when there is not that much outrage over the new expenses scandal that is brewing, yet a huge amount of anger and bile against people who are trying to find work in a stagnant work market and only getting £71 a week.
I am not sure if anything will get better in 2015 either.
Yep totally agree. You never see the same level of anger, resentment, spite, disgust, hatred and vitriol aimed towards the political whores (MPs) and bankers from the Richards of this world – The Sun and Daily Mail reading masses, as you see directed towards “benefit scroungers” aka the sick, disabled and unemployed.
They see MPs and bankers as superior to them because they are rich, successful and powerful, so see them as more deserving of the wealth that they steal. They see the unemployed as their inferiors, so they feel deeply offended and enraged when they believe they are getting public money they are not entitled to, even though the amount of money the elite criminals steal, far exceeds what the unemployed, sick and disabled get.
Most people, as long as there is someone below them in the social hierarchy to look down on, blame for all society’s problems, take all their frustrations out on, disparage, despise, ridicule and feel better than, are as happy as a pig in muck to be robbed blind by those they consider to be their betters. A nation of servile, obsequious, cowardly, cap doffing weasels and bullies.
@ R33
I am curious. You use my name to epitomise a type of person you despise. Please point to a single post I have made where I exhibit “anger, resentment, spite, disgust, hatred and vitriol”. You are just making stuff up. I don’t know whether this is your ‘debating style’ or you are genuinely confused.
I have not generalised about people. I have not criticised the unemployed or the sick or disabled. The only thing I have taken issue with – consistently – has been those who object to being required to look for work. I agree that being asked to look for 35 hours per week is daft and I have written this on an earlier post (as it happens I think that the 35 hours per week requirement is an urban myth – I am unaware of this being an actual requirement). My personal belief is that a couple of hours per day is a far more sensible target.
There is something ironic about the way you describe me. In choosing to make stuff up, classify me and then criticise me for the sins you made up you are behaving just like the type of person you apparently despise.
“I won’t be responding to your comments”.
The lies just keep coming with you don’t they? 😀
Excellent post.
Random man
Stop trying to defend the indefensible, those that should be claiming benefits are the ones that do need it ,not the ones that do not, citing john Snow only as one example and that is not a contradiction to what I said proving this with the car insurance analogy, which you have completely ignored.
So twisted is the Tory way of thinking that it wants to give state money to those who have, from a system that provides for those that have not.
And I quote…
“As most of that money is being paid to rich pensioners such as John Snow who is claiming statutory pension, working for channel 4, claiming heating allowance and travel reductions all courtesy of the welfare state irrespective of the fact that rich people were never supposed to claim from the welfare state”
“Then you have the cheek to tell those who are really in need of state help that they should be towing the line or following rules in order to claim something they have ACTUALLY PAID FOR ,”
So because you have paid in to the system should be able to claim benefit without having to toe the line or follow rules, but people such as John Snow, who equally has paid into the system, should not be able to claim any benefit at all. I’m sorry but that’s a masssive contradiction, you can’t have it both ways.
As I have said, I completely agree that people in a position such as John Snow should not be able to claim any benefit whatsoever, in fact I would go as far as to say it’s disgusting that they are able to. However you can’t ask for the rules to be relaxed for your situation but tightened for someone elses.
Benefits should be means tested and dependant on circumstances. i.e. if you have health issues you should be able to claim a health related benefit to support you until you feel able to support yourself. But equally benefits should not just be handouts, if you are able to support yourself then you should at least attempt to try and do this to be eligible for benefits. In my experience the vast majority of people are trying to do what it takes to support themselves rather than rely on government handouts, however there is a small minority, as demonstarted on here, that give the rest a bad name, especially when you have the media that we have in this country who love nothing more than to stir the pot and spread half truths and all out lies in the name of “news”
random man
Let us see John snow claim off his car insurance without having an accident or damage to it, he would not be able to. Just as the rules that govern benefits are supposed to be for those that are in financial need of them, all have to pay their insurance but all are not eligible to claim unless they need to – is that plain enough for you to understand.
It is only since successive political parties and that includes labour who moved to universal benefits that it’s ethos changed, therein lies the scandal.
Your really taking the P now regarding the media, who is predominantly right wing in it’s views at worst and politically moderate to say the least at best. It is people like you that are stirring the pot, putting out half truths and wanting people already demoralized through sickness or unemployment to adhere to the unnecessary right wing rules and regulations that are punative and vindictive to both the sick and the unemployed. They are being sanctioned as a direct result of none descript, ever changeable dictats – the harsher the better according to people like you, who are truly sick yourselves.
You didn’t even read my post did you? Hows about you actually pay attention before replying and making yourself look foolish.
But lets take your view and look at that, benefits are for those that need them, exactly right, however lets assume as you are claiming JSA that you are fit and healthy and able to support yourself, so what makes you think that you should get unlimited, unregulated benefits? Aren’t you just taking money from those that genuinely need it? Isn’t that a bit greedy? You are able to support yourself whilst many millions aren’t but because the benefit system is supporting many people who refuse to make the effort to find work many people on ESA are now finding themselves subject to work capability assessments and in some cases being told they have to look for work and claim JSA. Nobody, not even the dastardly Tory government has unlimited money so in order to support the people that truly need the help then the money has to come from somewhere
If you can ignore my posting I can ignore yours and for your information everyone who is on the sick is there under their doctors orders and all those that are removed unjustly are done so by atos officials. Therefore it’s a case of who you trust GP’s or quango’s. Nobody dumb dumb is on the sick because they are not sick – get rid of the quango’s in this country and there will be plenty left to care for the sick and unemployed. I refuse to engage with any more of your inane remarks not that I could not but because this site should not be dominated by either me nor you.
If you want an efficient service, it has to be sophisticated and that is certainly an appraisal UJM will never achieve. All the government had to do was what they are totally unwilling to do i.e. put their private sector funding into JCP.
An automated service has to be amazingly advanced to compensate for local knowledge. Arbitrary distance ranges are not as reliable as understanding local transport options.
If the government was willing to increase the JCP workforce, you could implement people who know all this information, and where they didn’t, they could research it. Instead we get an assumptive service that doesn’t recognise cost flux or transport restrictions, a so-called ‘personalised’ support package from Work Programme providers, which is, in truth, a universal approach to everybody they handle.
Curiously enough, UJM and The Work Programme are analogous, so why the taxpayer has to foot the bill for both is baffling to me. It also presents the question as to why you would need to see an advisor or sign on at all.
Surely the entire process of signing on is that a human being gets to confirm your adherence to your jobseeker’s agreement in order to process your payment?
Likewise for the Work Programme. Do you really need to see a human being (a generous description) have a casual chat to confirm you’re using a ‘mandatory’ service?
I know the Work Programme offers support like C.V writing and interview skills etc. But surely their support is extremely exhaustive when you’re having your claimants take a focused jobsearch and application strategy?
It all seems like knee jerk reactions put in place to appease the people that think everyone out of work is a lazy workshy drink addled drug addicted scumbag who does not want to work at all and is somehow living the life of riley on £71 a week.
And woe betide these scumbags say anything about it, they should be flogged and publicly shamed and forced to do menial tasks for the tax payers money they are scrounging.
I am sick of being classed as a scum bag, I want a job and I am trying to find one.
I hate feeling worthless.
400 comments and counting… 🙂
Just had a thought about the jobsmatch site. As anyone with a landline and a postcode can post jobs up as an employer, then you could just post up jobs for yourself to apply for, fill your commitment, and get on with real job hunting elsewhere. You could insulate yourself from the scammers.
LMAO good thinkin’ batman!
can somebody answer me this question.. If the jobcentre DO stop your £71 a week payment for any kind of reason. (ie, they deem that you’ve not looked for work) or whatever. What in gods name does a person live on??, will that person be eligible for any kind of crisis loan. If not, you may as well throw a brick through a jewellers store and wait for the police, ..at least in prison you get fed, and have a roof over your head, ..I’m beginning to think jail could be quite a nice option.
I was sanctioned once for 9 weeks – you do not get any money at all (you still have to look for jobs and show the proof you are doing that every 2 weeks though, not 100% sure if your NI stamp is paid either when sanctioned), I appealed and got all my money back via cheque roughly 3 weeks after the sanction.
I think there is a hardship loan option but works out less than £30 a week
My main argument when I appealed was I could not afford to get to inteviews.
Jail is exactly where this hang em and flog em party want all objectors to their plans to rob the poor to pay for the rich to be. They are bracing themselves for a fight hoping we will rebel so that they can find or build enough jails to put us in, if they cannot take your homes via withddrawal of housing benefits and other benefits they will do it by jailing you.
I agree it is setup with the ‘give em enough rope’ and they know the majority of us cannot afford legal challenges.
Sickening really when you think about it.
DZWASP would you even consider a job in the job centre and sanction people.
what a loaded question …..
My area of skill i suppose is customer care, so putting a person on sanctions would go against my customer care ethic and training, if I did take a job in a job centre I would try and get one not dealing with the sanctions side of things.
I cannot win on that question 😦
Fair enough to ask though.
How do I go about joining the Anonymous hacker group? 🙂
Look on the website hackers anonymous and see if there is any way you can join.
You have to hack in and put your details onto their database to be accepted.
Richard/ random man
You speak to maggie of benefits being index linked, but index linked to what? they used to be linked to cost of living now they are linked to average wages that are being forced downwards. Those that took out second mortgages or loans to buy second homes are being protected by quantative easing which is keeping interest rates low, yet rented housing is now being manipulated upwards to finance those landlords who are in debt up to their eyeballs.
Bet “Richard” is “enjoying his Bank of England “tracker” mortgage, aren’t you “Richard” you smarmy cunt.
No. I paid off my mortgage pre credit-crunch whilst interest rates were still high.
Those with debt secured a while ago may be doing well now. Unless they have considerable equity many of them will be in trouble if they need to refinance or move.
Average wages are being forced down for the vast majority of the population. Global competition combined with a low skill / no longer needed skill workforce make this inevitable. There is not a political solution to this. Until recently politicians could borrow from future generations to pay for things today (from increased national debt to PFI to pensions tax to retirement rules), however, now most of these options no longer exist.
So you have got a bought-and-paid for roof over your head, Richard, eh? Nice garden? It is what we call “security”, Richard 🙂 Feels good not to have to worry about paying the mortgage or worse still budgeting your low-pay/Universal Credit (form 2013) to pay the rent. As a fellow home-owner (with a nice garden 🙂 let me say, you really can’t be that feeling of security, Richard, can you. It gives you such a warm cosy glow, a world away from the less fortunate. You got a cushy pension rolling in, too 🙂 Lots of savings/investments? 🙂 Burgeoning property “portfolio” 🙂 Never want for anything? 🙂 Yes, feels good, let me tell you. Can I ask you, Richard, why, oh why, do you want to inflict such INsecurity on others. Why are you so devoid of empathy? Why, Richard. In our fortunate position, Richard, life is GOOD, let me tell you 🙂 You believe that the unemployed should be FORCED to take any position going that someone else defines as a “job”. What about pay, conditions, health and safety? Oh, and pensions, Richard. What about being able to afford a decent of standard of living? To own your own home? Why do you want to drag us back to the days of the “Ragged Trousered Philanthropists” when peoples jobs literally killed them. Why can’t EVERYONE enjoy a decent standard of living, not just you, me and the rest who are fortunate?
@ Riley
Yes – I am a lot more fortunate. I was fortunate that I was born in the UK and not in parts of the world where war and famine are commonplace. I am fortunate that it was my parents and grandparents who were penniless immigrants and not me who has had to claw my way from nothing. And I am lucky that more has gone well in my life than has gone wrong. However, I have also worked bloody hard along the way and sometimes had to deal with very challenging situations.
I don’t want to drag people back. I have never said this and you and others on this site accuse me of all sorts of things that others might believe or say – but do not apply to me. Just because I am one of the few with different views who have bothered to post here I am being attributed with the characteristics of your generalised ‘enemy’. Ridiculous and unwarranted.
One of the most important things I learnt in business was to face reality – however unpleasant. Only then can I make the difficult choices.
I think a shitty job is better than no job because a shitty job can lead to a better job whereas no job tends to result in a downwards spiral. I think taking personal responsibility is better than relying on the State because at best the State provides an existence whereas personal responsibility provides control of one’s life.
I despair at the negativity and nihilism so many display. Blaming others for one’s circumstances achieves little and normally prevents a solution being found.
@Riley:
He hasn’t read it – & I don’t think it’s at the top of his reading list.
It has been clearly demonstrated – did you watch Jon and Dan Snow’s series What Britain Earns that “shitty jobs” don’t lead anywhere, what you are peddling, or at least trying to if anyone is dumb enough, is a myth. You really should read the “Ragged Trousered Philanthropist”. And btw what is your emphasis on, nay obsession with shit and jobs? I think we all know where you are coming from, Richard.
It has also being clearly demonstrated that “shiity jobs” are a lot worse for peoples mental health and overall well-being that being unemployed.
@ Richard, you are really scraping the barrel now, comparing UK poverty with Africa.
Here is a link to research that backs up your claims, Richard: A Shitty Job is Better than No Job Say Researchers
Richard
A nice bit of diatribe regarding future prospects for the unemployed – no job – no benefits – no hope, because we are already in enough debt and yet those that are part of the Private finance initiative are not only reaping the rewards in extortionate profits long term, they also factored in jobs for everyone they know to run the public hospitals and schools that their finance built to their specifications, I wonder how long before it’s all privatized. They want and have been given it all by stupid labour politicians who also bailed out banks The bankers, the super rich tax dodgers and the rich abusers of the welfare state are still being given it all by the Tory government despite the fact that we are in so much debt – funny that isn’t it.
if governments can underwrite financiers debts why can’t we write off the debts to financiers?
@ Richard:
Would it be possible for you to go & despair a little more quietly – somewhere else? You’ve said your piece.
No fun in that though is there Shirley? Richard is here to get drunk on our tears.
… Just in case there’s a small chance that you’d like to come back (again!) and cite your absolute right to express your opinion:
You’ve every right to offer your theories/queries BUT ‘going forward’ you’re not about to suddenly ‘get’ the people you haven’t been able to understand so far. People here are trying to have a POLITICAL discussion (prompted by what’s going on in their real lives – the ones they are living) and they are busy with that. So by your joining in the discussion it’s a bit like one of the unemployed persons you think are not trying hard enough deciding to visit a Daily Mail/Torygraph-type site every day and not being able to comprehend the people there, but at the same time keeping on lamenting “Why oh why can’t you all just be a little bit less smug & self-satisfied? Your views just seem over the top – too head in the clouds/unrealistic to me and even a tad …. unfeeling.”
Everyone has different ideas about ‘what’s wrong’ and what should be done to fix it but that’s not the same as holding so many fixed beliefs that large numbers of people in any one social group or groups “do this” or “think this” or “believe this”. You don’t know these people and you are making assumptions that confirm the views you’re most comfortable holding. There is self-interest in all social groups and there IS a social strata whether we would like to see it or not, and whether we choose to make judgements about the people we perceive to be in each group & base these on our own life experiences (or use our imaginations and look a bit deeper). (We know you’ve worked hard & etc. don’t want to put everyone down & etc). You’ve said.
But as up to now you haven’t won any friends or influenced anyone, it might be time to stop flogging a dead horse? There’s only so much amazed sadness that anyone can listen to but you could look for others where you find more common ground (or can’t you find them?) How good do you feel, really. now that you’ve spent so much time telling everyone on this site what you think? Do you feel you have ‘gone forward’ in any way? (Please note – anything I’ve written with a question mark at the end of it is meant as a RHETORICAL question).
(These are too): Are there any others out there, do you think, who you can talk politics/express your despair about the ‘some people’ you feel so badly done-by with? It would avoid the need to try & have a dialogue with the very same people you want to criticise and complain about. Everyone else is busy trying to live their lives & make sense of the world around them – not just you – & I really would like to say thanks for your contribution it’s been helpful – but you know I can’t do that. So instead, in the words you’ve heard more than a few times already. Please don’t bother replying – I have nothing more to add.
I notice Richard never states what his jobs were that he worked so bloody hard at – no Richard, miners, construction workers, ship builders etc etc worked hard and obviously were not given the rewards that you were. I’ve got news for you Richard famine and war are imminent within British society what are you going to do – BAIL OUT.?
That should read bale out not bail out, there would be no chance of the second one from the likes of Richard.
Tub Thumping Right-wing Richard Translator Service: “I’m here to teach you lazy, worthless, workshy, feckless, excuse making parasites about personal responsibility. I only do it because I care. It’s tough love and it’s for your own good. You’ll thank me for this one day. Now pay attention children.
It is your fault the elite capitalist criminals crashed the economy in 2008, it’s your fault an extremist right-wing government is busy slashing and burning all the programmes that help lift people out of poverty and killing demand and growth in the economy and it is your fault there are not enough jobs being created for everyone who needs one.
To be in your situation, you must have never worked hard, had more kids than you could afford, been a spendthrift and generally made very poor decisions. Therefore, you must accept that you and your children deserve to live in abject Third World level poverty. Life is fair and you get exactly what you deserve out of it. You must accept responsibility for what you have done to yourselves, if you want your situation to improve. I am a self-made success story. I am superior to you. You are worthless dole scum. I am a living legend, acknowledge the eminence in your presence, bask in my glory! Kneel before me!
You forgot to mention this paragon of virtue Richard is one of the few people with different views that have bothered to post here.
His view(s?) are certainly ‘different’ …
Can you refuse this job https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJob.aspx?JobID=270089 and risk to be sanctioned ?
It does not look like an hoax but who knows?
Do you think they would consider a 50 something with ME?
Q could get all sorts of gadgets in my walking stick.
And the bad guys would never suspect an ordinary Joe like me
and the job perks! Silly cars and sillier women!
Do not forget the martinis !!
Aston Martinis are my favourite, though you really should drink and drive.
Maybe that is why the guy gets flung out of the car in the ejector seat.
“I told you! Shaken NOT stirred!” WHOOOMPH!!
The ad has been withdrawn. It shows how little checks there are to advertise
jobs.
*should of course read, NOT drink and drive.
Please remind me not to sup martinis before the sun is over the yardarm in future.
“job expired”?!
Terminated !!
Bond, your licence to kill is revoked.
How did they put this on the government website ? This is really funny. Did not realise it was an hoax at first
What happened to “random man”?
The people in work who laugh at the fascist measures taken against the unemployed. wait untill its your turn. that includes job center staff, and work programme staff. this is not about the unemployed its about a long term agenda of control over the peoples lifes, all your lifes. WAKE UP.
Curi O
He morphed into Richard and it looks like his buggered off too.
The irony of all this is that they keep inventing things that cut the number of jobs, this internet for example in conjuction with this online benefit service cut’s jobs, robot’s that do the job of two men cut’s jobs.
Computers cut jobs, cars that will drive themselves cut jobs, lot’s of things we invent cut’s jobs so they keep cutting jobs or farming them out to Asia where they get done for a pittance an hour.
But they never seem to work too hard at creating jobs to replace the redundant jos so that’s why some people are left to a life of dole.
Thay screwed it the rich fuckers, they fucked up because they couldn’t run a fucking knitting bee let alone a banking system etc.
So we pay, surplus to requirement iand if you don’t fit in your outside the wall.
Lions led by Assholes that’s us, never changes they couldn’t fight a fucking war properly in 1914 or at any fucking time, they expect a lot but they ain’t worth it, what’s happening is just more of that same arrogance from the people who are meant to be our leaders !
500 comments and counting… 🙂
501 actually ha ha. 🙂
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had my appointment with the Starzi at the interrogation centre this morning at
8:30am. wateing out side in the freezing cold with other “jobshy members of the public” i was told it would be in my interest to register and allow them access to my account so they can send me job offers. i guess the 30 jobs that i applied or over the past 2 weeks with an excel and print out of emails
was not enough to prove I was sticking to my current agreement.
the poor girl who was in the booth next to me was being told she “had to register and allow access”. forcing her hand into something that’s unsecured and proven to be riddled with bugs, which i took great delight in telling my advisor about and other issues with the site. such as most of the jobs i have applied for and attended interviews and testing days for were not listed on the new shoddy site.
i did say to her until im mandated to do so i will not be doing as she suggested as it was a suggestion after all 😉
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how can these people conyinue to do the goverments dirty work. Surley they know if benifits are stoped, the council will not recive rent.Therfore evictions are inevitable. people will have no where to live, and end up on the streets. unless we stand up now. we have a very dark future ahead.
Click to access universal-jobmatch-faqs.pdf
Some JCP advisers are ignoring Q8.
Check out
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/department_for_work_and_pensions_group/dwp-news.cfm/id/D34395B0-26B7-4E67-81B32F80CFEBB3E8
Might be slightly of topic here, but in relation to the “universal jobmatch” and my experience with it. I went to an appointment at A4E today which ended up in one of the staff telling me i had to register for the “Universal Jobmatch” and if i didnt when i returned to A4E in the new year i would be unable to do a job search. I asked why and was told this was the only method A4E would be using in the new year. I challenged what i was told and informed the A4E staff member that “universal jobmatch” was not mandatory and even if it was it wouldnt be inforced until april. The A4E staff member then informed me that if i turned up in the new year without an account i would be unable to do a job search and as such be subject to sanctions, i then informed him that even the Job Centre couldnt inforce that rule and in there own directives state that people doing job searches were able to use different methods of job search and couldnt enforce you to just use “universal jobsearch”. An A4E staff member also informed me that they were now a registered centre for signing people upto “universal jobsearch”, i again challenged this on the basis of data protection. Anyway i had a meeting with the Job Centre later that day and asked the JCP advisor about what A4E had told me which they found surprising and completley untrue, they backed up what i had told A4E and that “universal jobmatch” was not compulsory at this moment in time and might not even be enforced in april as the website isnt working. the JCP also informed me that A4E were not a registered centre and even the JCP couldnt request an email address attached to a “universal jobsearch” account and that A4e were wrong again. They passed my complaint over to a manager who is investigating the misinformation given to me by A4E, the whole situation has got me thinking as to why A4e would try and do this and what they stand to gain from misinforming clients. For anyone reading this just remember if A4E try and get you signed up just refuse and take it to you JCP and report them.
very strange.
sounds as though your JCP knows what is going on.
Yeah they were quite good, just getting fed up of A4E telling me things that are untrue. Not sure if it is purely down to alot of the A4E staff being completely rubbish at their jobs or the fact they dont have sufficient training. This isnt the first time i have clashed with them, just feel sorry for people who feel pressured into going along with A4E’s every word and not challenging what there told because of the threat of sanctions and loosing money.
may i ask from an IT expert, i take it the DWP will put tracking cookies on this site, will those tracking cookies allow the DWP to see other internet sites not associated with the job match web site
According to the i newspaper universal jobmatch will become mandatory sometime soon after new year
The prats aint gonna intimidate me …they stopped my JSA when my wife’s part time job went over 25 hours …how can they sanction what i dont get …well they BILL me ??? …..Ahhhh i hear you say they will not credit my NI contributions so i can get my pension when i retire …tough !! when will that be ??? ..66 67 or even 68 ..I am 57 this year….. besides i will probably have died of starvation or cold by then…..so I dont really give a toss ….On another note …why not sanction employers for ageism, not employing or attempting to utilise people with transferable skills ..not acknowledging applications , or even acknowledging interview results its not always the unemployed who are fault …..
Sanctions info : Harsha.parmar@dwp.gsi.gov.uk This person deals with enquiries about sanctions at the DWP.
020 7449 5923
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I have just about had enough of this first of all they send me to A4e then they make me do this Universal Job Match poo, now they have lined me up for jobs I really am not qualified for they sent me for a job as a PA the other week and I certainly do not hold the relevant qualification! Needless to say I was rejected. I am currently at college studying PTLS Teaching course as I want to become a teacher my life long ambition yet they want me to be a cleaner, at the DWP. I know exactly what the Daily Mail brigade think of the unemployed, they think of us as scum. A bit rich coming from a paper that worships Z list celebrities and the ground they walk on. PATHETIC!
I’m sure this is an infringement of European fundamental rights article 8
Sanctions info : Harsha.parmar@dwp.gsi.gov.uk This person deals with enquiries about sanctions at the DWP.
020 7449 5923
Pingback: Thousands To Be Forced To Sign Up To Government Website That Doesn’t Work | the void
its getting out of hand now. i live in RUTLAND a very rural area where they are cutting back on everything first of all the government shuts the only jobcentre in my county meaning everyone has to travel to neighbouring counties for the nearest jobcentre. our local library is only open for 2 hours 2 days a week with only one very very old computer & it looks like that will be closing soon. they have reduced our bus service & shut down our train station it takes me over an hour to do 3 miles on our bus as it visits every village in the county & the service to our nearest big town (Market Harborough) only runs on alternate days & takes you 8 miles in the wrong direction to catch the connecting bus. a 3 hour trip to do 14 miles then a 3 hour trip back.
he site is plagued with huge technical issues with no support to back it up. I was required to re register for no apparent reason. I emailed the support line weeks ago with no response. After telling my adviser of this it was deemed I was only getting the problem because I hadn’t voluntary given permission for my information to be shared. I know that the jobs posted here are becoming increasingly cluttered “(Job Warehouse Only)”.
I’m presuming that they use something like YACG, a machine which spawns these Job posts from other information gathered online. This is an attempt to match your criteria with phoney jobs. Essentially providing an ever more counter productive service for the helpless job seeker.
How can the orwelian Universal Jobmatch ever be compulsary? as it uses cookies, And to force a person to accept cookies on their computer is illegal.
your a dickhead and this article is wrong.
That should be “You’re a cunt.” and “You’re a dickhead.”
Honestly, the standard of grammar in trolling is so poor these days.
Yes it is, and there’s also the shocking lack of capitalisation. Stupid troll is stupid…
When it comes to free duck hunting games, you can either hunt
in the water or on land, in which case you will be engaging in what is known as long
range hunting-hunting birds in the air. Any website can be selected that you
feel is safe and comfortable. The internet is a great place to find these
free turkey hunting games.
Ive signed up for it,6 weeks of it ive done,im in college,applying for jobs etc,.now they putting me on work experience again,at least with thatcher my YOUTH OPP PROGRAM payed (£16) in the 90s COMUNITY INDUSTRIES,.£27 p/w,progress to work,£00.oo,now ive to work for”Experience which is ZERO,,..ITS SLAVERY LEGAL,..THINK AL HOLD UP THE BOOKIES INSTEAD
I don’t know if this has been said before…..such a long thread
I used to work for Jobcentreplus in a Contact Centre above a Jobcentre.
I was dismissed due to sickness absence.
Having been unemployed for one year I the receive a letter saying my benefit was in doubt because I had not applied for a job.
Confused I went onto the UJ site and found that four vacancies had been saved to my account, one of them was the one mentioned in the letter.
My Advisor confirmed she had not done it but someone else in the JC.
The next time I looked two had gone but two remained, strange as only an advisor can remove a advisor saved vacancy, so someone is playing with my account.
The Job they said I didn’t apply for was saved to my account on the day the vacancy expired.
I feel I have been done over by people at the Jobcentre to meet their tasrgets.
Please be warned that the Universal Jobsite is being used as a tool to sanction claiments to make the figures/ statistics look good.
Be careful
Appeal – this is unreasonable. If the vacancies were not put there by your advisor, then how can they be notified vacancies?
It does say in the T & C anyone from the JCP can add and remove vacancies and not just your jcp advisor.
just damn sneaky it does not have to be someone you know or have even spoken too.
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I’ve basically been told unless I apply and actively seek up to 19 jobs per week, log into UJ every day of the week, provide printed evidence (as I don’t trust the security and their nonchalant attitude lack of responsibility if data becomes misused ).
It’s not like that I am not stressed out already, however they have essentially tripled my job search and made it into a poorly paid job. Bang goes my weekend and social life (not that it was that active anyway).
Chin up as they say and don’t let the b******** grind you down.
There’s nothing much I can do about it at the moment.
That is absolutely ridiculous…
It is in a way, I’m am going to struggle if I to find new vacancies next week. I have feeling it’s going to be more speculative, cold calling and generally being a nuisance to scaring off employers.
They might decide to take me on or otherwise just add me to a blacklist. As long as I go through the correct motions, I shouldn’t be sanctioned. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if they want more or some pedantic rule I wasn’t aware of that I never managed to complete.
Basically I am longer surprised at the antics. UJ, DWP and WP documents are scattered within loopholes and measures people are sanctioned. Hey ho, that’s life. .
Bit of an update on my progress. I’ve made some headway by basically applying for almost anything within my desired skill range. Even jobs which clearly benefit having your own transport. I feel like I’m wasting my own time due to the knowledge that transport links are always great or cheap where I live.
At the same time, I feel like I will be going around in circles as soon as I run out of realistic vacancies to apply for with 19 steps per week will soon become applying for the same jobs again and getting blacklisted by employers if I am not careful.
The autocratic nature of the job centre is not the staff’s fault; it’s the people who employ them in the first place are the c**** f*******s. Bear in mind, the people making these decisions are already financially comfortable so will never need to worry about becoming impoverished in the same way others do.
Perhaps I’ve been setup for a fall and they don’t believe I am looking for work, Who in their right mind would want to endure their pedantic authoritarian antics willingly?
Anyway not really a rant, just proof that the system is about to fail. I may not be brilliant, however I am loyal to my country, don’t take illegal drugs, don’t claim money for alcoholism, don’t steal from the needy and honest as I can be to get through life. It seems to me, the uncouth junkie piece of shit that precede/proceed me in the JCP get better treated.
So this is my conclusion to the whole shoddy affair. I hope some people can find some solace from my initial rant and follow up comment.
I am currently on the Post Work Programme regime for the moment and have to sign on every week, and each time i do i am told that i must spend at least 7 hours per day looking for work or on work related activities. However, my Jobseeker’s Agreement only states “Looking for work will be a significant part of my everyday activities, taking several hours each day”. The key word there is the word “several” the definition of that word is – more than 2 but not many – therefore i am only spending between 3-4 hours a day. I am just waiting for the job centre to pull me up over my time spent each day so that i can argue with them the merits of the English language.
how do they know how many hours you are doing?
they monitor your activity. ever tried to submit something and it,s failed. this is probably because somebody is logged in at the same time or maybe just server lag. they use webtrends to collect server statistics. I spend around 30 hours on their website and the rest of the time is spent looking else where during a week. if you have a Linux based device try using that instead.
Are you using the universal jobshonk site?
Do you have to give them access after you finish the work program system now?
Because I thought if you did not give access they could not monitor what you are doing (when I was using universal jobshonkery I had not given them access and they could not monitor what I was doing and had to print out my job search).
I found their was not even an hours worth of jobs to look at on that site 😦
The PWP (Post Work Programme) literature works it into the mandate unfortunately. They can still monitor your activity (but not view the contents apparently. sic) or they can escalate to a higher staff member to do this. The tick box is merely a legal requirement and not strictly adhered to.
As you apply for things you can do on the day, no matter how unfeasible they can’t really do much to sanction you. Afterall they put the unrealistic demands on you. I also use indeed.co.uk, reed.co.uk and few other job websites.
If though, you have the permission box unpicked and you start finding blue dots on job vacancies saved in your front page then you have a case to answer as they have broke their side of the agreement.and you can take it up with one of their managers.
A direction can not be given for you give permission unless you are not doing your side of the JSA agreement. As far as I am aware.
Sorry forgot to say, I use UJ website. 7 days a week, variable hours and only on one system. Everything else has Noscript, https everywhere and firewall cranked up to high settings.
A tip is to never user Facebook, Twitter or other social networking websites whilst being logged onto their website. Tracking effectively is turned on with Webtrends,Google analytics and shared between DWP websites (as well as your HTTPS logon to goverment gateway).
Check under your bed tonight, there is a probably a DWP minion sending data back to Sauron.
I hated using that shonky site looking for a job. I found reed.co.uk probably to be the best site for job searching.
I did not like the layout of indeed.co.uk
I always used cc cleaner 7 wipes security after each time i used UJ.
From what I could work out no one knew how to monitor usage when I went to sign on. All they could do was verify I had an account via email address.
Then I created a brand new account and brand new email address and used that one from then on.
7 times may excessive. I have the option of 30 times wipe using o&o diskwipe. Anyway I would recommend setting up a virtual box and use linux
.
The reason your internet session can only be traced during that virtual machine session. I should do that myself although already have backtrack Linux installed.
I inspected the page and researched the scripts and tracking cookies. You’ll find it uses an anti tracking disable routine to acknowledge your presence. Just like Facebook has a script to circumvent adblocker add-ons.
Obviously I don’t the know the complete facts however I do know the data is sent to Wichita in the us and rerouted through an Amazon server in Ireland. I done some research because everybody was coming out with different stories.
is it true that on the 26 november the new law will change at the d.w.p regarding the choice of doing 35 hours or 21 activities a week and the d.w.p abolishing the activities and everyone will have to do 35 hours a week
So how is it that this “healthy” eating approach made me worse off than before
My job search given to me from a kick-off was a minimum of 19 things per week and up to 35 hours a week.. My mandate was 7 days per week, so this meant an entry on my job log or application on every day of the week. This is the benefits of being unemployed full-time.
From what I can gather the 35 hours a week thing should not have been introduced yet until Universal Credit kicks in.
Not sure if you are in an area of the UC Pilot scheme?
As the 35 hours come under the claiment commitment system which applies to UC.
What people and this post seem to be forgetting is that jobseakers allowance is an ALLOWANCE, it’s not a given or a right. If you want to apply for the allowance, fine, but accept the rules. If you don’t want to give your details to them then DON’T claim.
I have used the service, and found it quite useful. I managed to find a new job and stopped claiming job seakers allowance after approximately 1 month.
I have to work 45+ hours per week to make ends meet, so why should someone find it so difficult to sit infront of a computer for 35 hours per week.
Having used the service myself I still believe it to be weak. For those of you that don’t have a computer you can use the service at the job centre.
It’s quite simple really if you don’t want a job and don’t want to earn a living, then you should be homeless.
I am in no way talking about people with disabilities and medical conditions.
looks as though I will have to sign on again as hours have been cut by 50% 😦
10 hours a week I can not live on/
The jobcentre are rarely helpful in my experience, the staff are rude and unhelpful. Even more since the recent customer “service” training where people are talked to like something that is stuck to the bottom of your shoes.
Nobody wants to go through this every fortnight.
When I regain employment I will setup an account where I deposit money, so in the event where I find myself again to free of employment I will not have to tolerate the overcompensating grunts at the job centre and do a job search on my own terms. For as long as financially possible at least
Universal Jobmatch is insecure and ferocious infringement of your personal details. I think everytime your profile has been viewed by staff, it should be highlighted upon your logon. And if someone else is viewing your profile.
The XSS scripts used by this website would be deemed as illegitimate on other websites.
Don’t get me wrong. I believe everybody who can pull their weight should be doing so. Having a working wage is far more satisfying than being Kangaroo Court every two weeks.
Being as, we are doing online searches in our own time with very little help (at least in my experience) from the staff. They only serve to police claims and recommend sanctions and fulfil targets set out by the management.
For us fortunate to have Internet Connections and libraries this is fine. Or your local job clubs with an I.T. setup that’s OK. I know some people don’t really use it proper although those that do are getting tarred with the same brush in the same cases.
What I am really trying to say is people will be more keen if they were treated with more dignity, received more beneficial help when required and as a human being. Not some deposit of scum that doesn’t deserve any manners or respect when spoken to.
The reason for the security guards becomes more than obvious when you realise this is how people are being treated in some areas. This is feedback from other people I know, in a similar situation or having been through it previous before regaining employment.
Anyway I’ve said enough on this subject and I hope somebody from the jobcentre reads this. Your training is not a mandate, it’s a guide on how to carry out the job. Bottom line is, no matter perplexing and hard to follow you make your UJ/UC PDF user guides it comes to down to one thing – completely repellent abuse of power. You are not special and if the roles were reversed because of your behaviour I would be a complete bastard to you.
Reblogged this on odinwildhuntblog.
After I initially commented I appear to have clicked the -Notify me
when new comments are added- checkbox and from now on every time a comment
is added I receive four emails with the same comment.
Is there a way you are able to remove me from
that service? Kudos!
If you have to warning some sort of long term contract,
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out. Produce original, purposeful articles and avoid duplication.
Both reach and targeting are very important factors to be considered
when drafting digital marketing plans as they significantly affect the
effectiveness of the plan.
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Why don’t somebody/anybody walk straight into the car park of the DWP and key every single car. Watch them sanction you then, they wont, trust me.
I am hard working, outstanding member of society and having been on n off employment 3 years the job centre are useless cunts, who have squeezed job seekers n pressured them more yet at the same time cutting all financial and training support not to mention having to pay to got a few interviews a week makes u broke as out even when ur not a smoker, drinker or druggie it’s fucking bollox the dwp punishing n giving crap to decent hard working people trying to get back in full time employment
This article was published in 2012 and I feel the Jobmatch universal’s website is still crappy. I met unemployed people who are struggling to use the website because they don’t have basic digital skills. I want to raise awareness about this problem. I am looking for people who can share their experience with the Jobmatch universal website. Please contact me at juliette@inclusight.com Thanks!