More Workfare, More Sanctions, Labour Think Tank Proposals Are Just The Same Old Deal

emma-harrison-a4eToday’s report by think-tank the Institute for Public Policy Research (@IPPR)  offers a chilling glimpse of what life might be like for young people under a Labour government.

The paper titled ‘No More NEETs’ has been widely reported in the press as a Labour plan to strip benefits completely from those under 25.  This will suit Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves who has already promised to be tougher on welfare than Iain Duncan Smith if Labour are elected.  The truth is that this is a paper from a toff dominated think-tank, which may yet manifest as Labour policy, but so far remains the rantings of a few out of touch idiots.

Most of the proposals are little different from those which have failed so miserably over the last fifteen years, since the obsession with hounding young people into unpaid work under the guise of fake training began.  The main thrust of the report is that benefits for those under 25 are “conditional on participation in further and vocational education or intensive job search”.  This is the same kind of crap that the IPPR came out with over fifteen years ago and which was used to justify Tony Blair’s New Deal in the late 1990s.

The New Deal was Labour’s flagship programme to end youth unemployment forever by forcing young people into some form of work or training under threat of benefits being stopped.  The reality of the scheme was the emergence of the monstrous welfare-to-work scam.  Companies like A4e trousered billions whilst young, unemployed people were sent on workfare or warehoused for 30 hours a week undertaking sub-standard or often non-existent training.  Those who escaped this fate were forced into Subsidised Employment, which meant six months forced work on poverty pay.

The IPPR’s current plans are little different, with unpaid workfare based on the current Government’s Traineeships for some, and a Jobs Guarantee or some form of poverty-paid traineeship for the rest.  Welfare-to-work providers will be at the heart of the scheme, sending young people to carry out six months forced work (or so-called training) at minimum wage, before they are dumped back on benefits to make way for the next tax payer subsidised free worker.  And when these magical measures don’t work – which they won’t,  evidence shows that Government work experience schemes do little to improve people’s chances of finding a job – then young people will be given an “intensive, diagnostic review with their personal adviser”.

After that doesn’t work it will back to the same old ‘participation in learning or work preparation activities’, ‘intensive jobsearch’ and ‘work trials’ that are already inflicted on unemployed people of all ages.

The New Deal for Young People cost billions and largely collapsed as not enough work placements could be found whilst welfare-to-work parasites delivered little of the training they promised.  Just like the current Government’s dismal Work Programme, it barely made a dent in the number of people out of work.  More importantly, the failure of the New Deal showed quite clearly that you can’t fix unemployment by fixing unemployed people, a lesson which has sadly still not been learned by politicians today.  There is nothing in this report that hasn’t already failed countless times to bring down the number of young people out of work.

Unfortunately the IPPR do not stop there and this is where things stray into callous fantasies which would make even Iain Duncan Smith blush.  The regime the IPPR describe will not just be aimed at young people currently on Jobseekers Allowance – which will be renamed a Youth Allowance.  Young, single parents with children over the age of one along with sick and disabled claimants under 25 and currently on Employment Support Allowance (ESA) will be subject to similar conditions.

The report glibly ignores the fact that people on ESA have been judged by not just their own doctors but even the horrific Atos assessors as being currently unable to work due to sickness or disability.  Tough shit think the ‘progressive’ IPPR – the pittance extra that these claimants receive will be slashed, leaving those unable to work due to illness forced to try and survive on just few pounds a day.  Only those in the Support Group, people with the most serious conditions, will receive any extra in benefits – although the report warns that for even some of this group that may be ‘conditional’.

Single parents with children over the age on 1 will also be expected to take part in ‘back-to-work support’.   If they are unable to do so or refuse they will lose not just their own Income Support, but also Child Tax Credits and possibly even Housing Benefits. The risk of hungry and homeless toddlers is apparently worth it if it means struggling single parents are lectured at about their CV for a few hours a week.

Many young people will no longer qualify for help with housing costs at all with an assumption that everyone can stay at home until they are at least 21.  Whilst the think-tank say there will be exceptions, such as those who are “unintentionally homeless or estranged from their parents” this will depend on an “assessment of whether they could be housed – or be supported to be housed – by their parents.”

Perhaps more than anything else these proposals show just how out of touch the clowns at the IPPR really are.  Will young people fleeing abuse really have to wait around for a DWP assessment to decide if that abuse is serious enough for them to leave home?  Has it not occurred to the IPPR how this might be used by exploitative adults to trap children at home?  Do they really imagine that this kind of assessment is workable in practice in cases of family breakdown when parents and children may not even be on speaking terms?  Has anyone at this think-tank ever even met anyone who has had to leave home at a young age for any reason other than to go to University?

The answer is clearly not likely and none of these new conditions will apply to under-graduates who will continue to be maintained by the loans system.  For those parents whose kids don’t go to university however this report carries a very real sting in the tail.  The newly-named benefit for unemployed young people will be means tested, based on their parents income.  In a policy precision targeted at the so-called squeezed middle, more affluent parents will be financially responsible for their children until they are 22.  And that’s how you lose an election.  By listening to unaccountable think-tank knobheads who think that crazy schemes they scribbled down on the back of a Starbucks napkin can fix the structural problems of poverty and unemployment.

Whether Labour do listen to the IPPR remains to be seen.  The fact that they haven’t spent the day pointing and laughing at these ludicrous proposals is telling.  There has been a denial that Labour will stop benefits for under 25s but the report doesn’t actually call for that. Labour have already announced a mandatory six month minimum wage ‘Jobs Guarantee’ for the young which is little more than workfare and will involve 10 hours a week unpaid ‘training’.

One thing is clear – the modern Labour Party are no friends of the poor.  Workfare, benefit sanctions and new attacks on both sick or disabled claimants and lone parents are likely to be at the heart of any future Labour Government.  The war on the poor will not end if the Tories lose the next election.

The report can be read at: http://www.ippr.org/images/media/files/publication/2013/11/no-more-neets_Nov2013_11516.pdf

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273 responses to “More Workfare, More Sanctions, Labour Think Tank Proposals Are Just The Same Old Deal

  1. Landless Peasant

    I would advise any young person to leave the country while they still can.

    • i would have a long time ago (i’m 23) but the problem is since I cannot get a job or training I have no way to fund myself to leave this country that has quickly become nothing more than the shitty matted hair around the anus of the world which is London!

  2. In the guardian today about Rachel reeves and cutting benefits to under 25 yr olds..in comments threads was posted twitter exchanges with reeves and guardian authors of that item. In the twitter exchanges which were posted the whole cuts to benefits thing was strongly denied. It
    was there in the messages so I don’t know wtf is or was going on…

    • laours reaction to all this has been very confuseing

    • chewie
      labours solution is to drop a lighter rock dropped on one’s foot…

    • the article actually surfaced in the Telegraph last night. Labour have since said it is not their planned policy. Very little obvious statements from Labour about this suggests that all is not as clear as people would like. Why can;t they just come out and say this is crap, the WCA is crap, bedroom tax is crap and all going to be reversed – fight for ordinary people, the poor and disabled – so we can reclaim our rights and dignity – it’s a vote winner surely??????????

      • It’s not the job of Politicians to solve problems and make peoples’ lives better, it’s to create the circumstances for people to experience suffering. Labour and Conservative BOTH work for the same Masters.

  3. keep it up, keep increasing the pressure on us and sooner or later the pressure vessel will explode in to violent conflict, us against these toff cunts.

  4. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again …. Labour, same team, different shirt!

    • Its been said that the idea of all parties being as bad as each other is often orchestrated by the party who has more to gain…

      • Who knows Bob, I just don’t know who to vote for in the 2015 election … answers on a postcard please :-)

      • Yes, well observed Bob.And you do have to be suspicious of the probable intent lying somewhere behind that, especially when the BBC’s Tory correspondent Nick Robinson admitted yesterday, live on air, that Cameron’s best chance of winning the next election is if people believe politicians are “all the same”. That is very clearly not the case.

        Lynton Crosby, who has declared his role is to destroy the Labour Party, rather than promote the Conservatives based on any notion of merit, is all about such a targeted “divide and rule” strategy. It’s all about a right wing strategy of cultivating and manipulating apostasy amongst support for the opposition. It’s very evident in the media, with articles about the left screaming headlines that don’t match content, and the Sun and Telegraph blatantly lying about Labour’s policy intentions regularly.

  5. Who would EVER have thought it, voting for the most left wing party out of the big three means voting Tory!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

  6. The under 25s are the group least likely to vote at elections, hence their continual battering by the mainstream parties; conversely, the over 65s are the group most likely to vote at elections, which explains why they have remained relatively untouched by benefit cuts.

    Whether this report is adopted by Labour is irrelevant – we live in a de facto one-party state where virtually all the parties subscribe to a greater, or lesser degree, to the neoliberal consensus.

    No matter which of them is in power, ordinary workers (and the poorest in particular) are in for a damn good kicking.

    But that’s capitalism for you.

  7. Wow. I thought things were bad now and that new government might fix things, or at least collapse things back to normal. The moronic JCP are still forcing people to use their shite website, which was voted worse of over 700! I can’t even access my account. Haven’t been able to in over a month. Its retarded! The ‘man’ doesn’t even listen to the people this crap affects! They just do it and then moon us out of their £250,000 limos straight to the bank of tax to buy a second home with tax payer money for their grandma!

  8. Thatcher's Child

    Are we going back to the days of Thatcher’s regime when shop doorways were filled with young people shivering in a soaking-wet cardboard box? Absolutely shocking!

    • That was tory Westminster council hosing down the homeless as it put customers off buying crap..tut tut we can’t have visible poverty in our midst it will drive tourists away.

  9. my solution involves 5m new jobs, but this is rejected as fantasy, coz it would mean a radical redistribution of wealth or massive
    investment,..there is no way nor means of creating new jobs within the uk economy, the responsibility for this is being blatantly dumped on those least able to argue, those with the least energy/resources…they expect people to be in PMA, pretend there is a point in what they say, and that they are rational human beings, they are not..there is no way the many, including young people, with very little in the way of resources can turn the fantasies of these fools into reality….the jobs udder is sucked dry, m/t, and the rich have sucked it dry…

  10. if they hadent got rid of student grants young people could of had some real training.

  11. Rosemarie Harris

    Trouble is the people who do vote ,don’t want to keep paying for single parents or youngsters who move out of home and into a room without getting a job and paying for themselves.
    we can’t keep paying for this and that and i mean tax payers and most of us do pay tax one way or the other. We need different people to stand for election and have different answers.. because it dosen’t matter who gets in they will do what they think the voters want.
    we could all get together and ‘bash’ it out but what we would do ?A working class think tank, but how many of us would come to the same way of thinking?
    How would we do it, so it’s fair to all who need help but exclude the others that don’t , but want it!
    Young people have so much in their favour, education, college they can work hours without paying any Tax etc. There is nothing for the over 40′s!
    I am in my 50′s and unemployed and unless we start thinking about it and coming up with different ways of doing it we are going to go round in circles!

    • a working class think tank, as any socialist should, is to put human rights and need for life’s vitals, at root, not to say before you can eat/live one must 1st work, to work we need 5m new jobs where are they?…there are no jobs, the rich have sucked up all the energy of jobs, to put into their portfolios, and they expect us to conjure up more jobs…personally i would hate to be young during these dreadful times, many will be expected to work into their 70′s…the solution is redistribution of wealth..

    • How did the country manage to survive when most women stayed at home and only one wage was coming in, stop knocking single parents they have a hard enough time being mother and father to their children, many do work when they can but can never earn enough to bring them off benefits meaning they are always playing catch up to the two income families who have pushed inflation and house prices to their limit.

      There may be jobs freed up for men if more women stayed at home instead of wanting bigger and better homes and cars or private education for their children – it’s greed plain and simple.

      Labour cannot provide employment without public money which will increase borrowing and push up inflation to the point where the living wage will constantly have to be renegotiated, a never ending cycle.

      When Blair got in we thought that he was only playing to the press to be elected and all the impositions put on unions would be reversed and look what we got. Why is Kitty jones not answering the tough questions?

  12. welfare reform has allways gone around in circles.

    • Nuggy

      This isn’t going around in circles this is trying to eradicate benefits like they did clause 4. The labour think tank say a one nation state has to think welfare and benefits,,according to them there would be very few people that were not capable of work and therefore not entitled to benefits.
      The labour party and the welfare state were practically formed by unions and decent, moral politicians who fought for it, this lot just want it to end and have joined in with the other parties to ensure it’s demise.

    • @nuggy then it must be disappearing up its own arse..

  13. As if proof is needed that Labour will just continue their neo-liberal policies if and when they get in. They’ll dress it up as something else but it will amount to a continuation of the same. The Tories and Labour are as bad as each other. Don’t be fooled by their propaganda.

  14. “I cant be arsed to vote …” – UK Youth

    Well you are paying for it now – Why would politicians care about you – You dont count.

    This Government Is Hammering Young People – Because It Can Get Away With It.

  15. Labour’s New Deal was just a Raw Deal for the unemployed and it seems Labour has still not learned,Rachel Reeves is just following in the Goose Steps of IDS.Same old carrot and stick rubbish except there is no carrot and certainly no genuine training or jobs,just more money for Welfare to Work scam artists.

  16. Pingback: More Workfare, More Sanctions, Labour Think Tan...

  17. From my heart;

    My mind and hope lies shattered; the future is cold and grim. No prospects of a pension, savings or the dream of some form of retirement. No hope of owning my own home, my own little place in the world. A society not fit for any kids I might wish to have. Broken Britain? No shit, and who fucked it? I can’t figure out whether it’s just rich idiots who are out of touch or if it’s cold, calculated, sociopathic and ideological madness. Probably both.

    Whichever, the result is the same; already the rise of homelessness is becoming more evident in Sheffield where I live, a well off city by any standards, and young people have less and less chance of a real, secure future in this shitty society. My sister is a case in point close to my broken but still beating heart. Not broken for want of love, not so much that, but for want of hope. Broken by anger and fury at the injustice and pathetic self-righteousness of our so called leaders; a broken mind burning with fight or flight hormones. What can stop it? Anger management? Some “keep calm and blah blah…” bullshit. Yeah, bury your anger, society doesn’t want it, stop being angry, here watch these 100′s of channels of crap and shut-up, people are starving in other countries you ungrateful shit! Wait, now they’re starving here too. Now people you love are being hit by bedroom tax and benefits cuts. Now your own sister, who you can’t afford to help provide for, is struggling to find a place in this world. Once you know the truth you can’t take it back – ignorance is bliss for some. I have this pressure behind my eyes some days that sits there feeling like rising madness; stress I guess.

    They (politicians) ignore us at all turns with smiles on their faces and claim “it has to be this way”, as they stuff their fat cunt faces full of rpime fillet steak and caviar. They ignore our protests and they try to smother our voices when we raise them. They go to war against our will. Smokescreens are abound. Twat footballers are lauded like Wayne “I’m a fucktard” Rooney who gets paid more in a week than the best paid Dr does in a fucking year, just for kicking a leather bag of air around, and they still want more! If an idiot is given the right to write his own checkbook what can we expect?

    How can I feel happiness when faced with this every single day? When are we, the people going to organise and just say “enough is enough”? How can people be so fucking cruel and heartless to each other? Why, why, fucking WHY? Gandhi was right when he suggested civilisation would be a good idea for us in the west; compassion, honour, respect, civility, honesty and humility – the forgotten ideals. All we have is a meat grinder.

    To all greedy, self-serving, compassion-less and honour-less people; die horribly you fucking cunts and make the world a better place. Just planting seeds, hoping they’ll take root.

    • Have to laud your sentiments Ninja, this is the kind of anger that we ALL should feel, I know I certainly feel it. Society in the UK is fucked & if we don’t all band together & march on Westminster , burn the place to the ground & stick the fat, bloated, complacent heads of these bastard politicians on poles outside,Following that march onto the City & do the same to the greedy bankers who caused this mess in the first place, raid the bank vaults & take back the money that’s been stolen from us.
      This is what the country needs, revolution & retribution, all it needs is a spark…

      • Thanks for the solidarity Kittycat, I wish that it doesn’t have to come to violence but then will the elite respond to anything else we try and do?

        Elite bastard heads on spikes gives me a warm feeling inside…

  18. Cutting Benefits of the under-25′s is a dangerous step and something the wankers in Government may live to regret. They will reap what they sow. After all, people such as myself are getting a bit long in the tooth for violent civil disobedience, fighting coppers and chucking petrol bombs, but the younger ones have the energy to kick off alright.

    • I dunno, Landless… if things get much worse, and they look like they will, I reckon even some of the oldies might be tempted to lob a brick or two… especially if they see no respite in a possible future labour government. Hopelessness makes people do terrible things.

      • Well, yes, if it gets to the point where people have nothing left to lose it will erupt, and we’re reaching that point right now. I’m almost finished on my 4 week MWA, 120 Hours Community Work. If I’d have got caught growing a couple of skunk plants or shoplifting I’d have probably got a lesser sentence. If we had guns in this country there would definitely have been a mass shooting in a Jobcentre somewhere by now.

        • if you don’t mind me asking, what have they got you doing for your MWA? (just tell me to mind my own business if you’d rather not say)…

      • Henry Ford tripled the wages of his factory workers canny bloke realised his own employees could afford to buy his own cars plus they had more money to spend thus improving employment for others ..only objection came from wall street journal who accused him go betraying his own class…thats got to tell you sumpting

    • Labour have SAID they wont be cutting benefits. press office rease

      • Eric Greenwood (4727)

        I wouldnt trust any party/politician to say the sun rises in the morning. they promise they wont.. then they do..they will say its an election campaign promise.. and you can be sure they will ignore it

        • NOTA is NOT AN OPTION. It’s a misguided belief that the Tories can be shamed into changing, and that Labour can be coerced into becoming a party for the trots/hard -line militant minority. Tory supporters ALWAYS vote Tory. If you don’t vote, spoil your ballot paper, or vote for a fringe party, we will get the Tories for another 5 year. It’s basic maths and logic.

    • Useless logic by cutting benefits to young people will automatically land them a job …

  19. Labour are scum
    MPs meanwhile continue to pay bills via expenses, and insinuate the rest of us are the parasites
    Fuck ‘em off

    • Labour are not much better than the Tories but the best case scenario might be a Labour/LibDem coalition… what else?.. UKIP?… imagine that bunch of one policy jokers running the country?… UKIP would be unfit to run the country, even if their main policy is appealing to many people and might unhinge some overly comfortable tory seats. Trouble with UKIP they have too many idiots in their party and had they been a seriously robust option I think they could have given the Tories a mighty scare. Most people seem to be looking for a party that is more left of centre… hard but fair.

    • hear hear.

  20. The Guardian’s Suzanne Moore on the disempowerment of a generation of young people: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/20/british-hostile-young-people-politicians-vote

  21. JV I refuse to comment on any more bloggs that are nothing more than mouth pieces for austerity policies or unjust terms and conditions to be meted out to all and sundry.
    Why don’t you report something more positive or uplifting, try forming an oppositiion organisation yourself instead of all of the doom and gloom for those that are seeking solace and succour.

    You apparently have plenty of listeners hanging on your every word, but even when you report a victory you and they know that it is going to be recinded not long after and which you dutifully report.

    • you want me to make things up?

    • I think people can live with disappointment.. it’s the lack of hope that destroys the soul. With no peace of mind as the foundation for a healthy and fully functional society all the Tories are doing is developing another generation of youth full of angst and to be honest nobody can say it’s not justified or deny them the right to feel that way… I still think before 2015 we’re going to take a long hard walk back to the 70′s.. I’m convinced we could end up with power cuts, strikes up and down the country, protests here, there and everywhere, violence, hate and anger, burning flames which I don’t like seeing because that is neighbourhoods.. the one’s we live.. not a good majority of the Tories.. that only ends up hurting those who equally have little left to lose but their lives. How many times must it be proven Tories cannot run the country without it all solely existing for their own agenda’s. Already I have been reading words more or less saying how people would feel about paying for aspects of their healthcare when in hospital?.. it’s the thin end of the wedge… private healthcare.. we Know far right policies will always dictate that those who need help should not get it, it’s against what the welfare state and the NHS stands for, it’s against kindness to our fellow humans, it’s really against humanity and all good that exists amongst kind and caring people… they say Good should always triumph over evil but sometimes it does not… we saw what evil existed in WW2… there are many in the Tory party who are so far right they are fascist bordering Nazi… make no mistake about it and they may call themselves Christians, in this case too many Christians and not enough lions.

  22. It’s always best to check what Labour intends to do, rather than swallow the media propaganda bullshit :-)

  23. While I do not see a massive softening of the approach if Labour get in, we have to hope that they are merely playing to the press in this.

    Let’s not forget that they offer, at least, the minimum wage for workfare, not great, but better than the Tories…

    • workfare under labour would pay the minimum wage for workfare to keep big business happy and on side probably paying out of taxes most of their minimum wage, while local councils put up council taxes to pay the cleaners that keep their heated offices pristine a living wage.
      The gravy train for those that are living off politics or cronyism is the one we should be stopping, not benefits if you don’t attend bootcamps or look for non-existent jobs, they will do anything than admit that capitalism is a failure unless it has a load of public money pumped into it while denying citizens the right or in some sad cases the will to live.
      You should all be checking your consciences because none of you deserve a vote if you are only pandering to capitalist con artists.

    • I think it tells us that political parties are scared shirtless of newspapers and not for the reasons of accountability..but playing to the angry of Tunbridge wells bbrigade ..
      Any party that supports unemployed will be depicted as scrounger supporters party .

      What’s needed is that scrounger myth to be shown for what it is ..
      Then maybe some politico might have the guts to stand up for jobless and claimants without looking like they work for the KGB out to wreck this grate nashun

    • Scrap Workfare… it’s not fit for purpose only fit for what it’s really been created for, and we all know what that is. It’s constantly wasting money.

  24. Kittyjones

    Reducing benefits for the over 25′s who are not in training or education is an absolute disgrace especially when the training is useless and provides jobs for labour party lackeys, most of whom have had failed businesses themselves or are labour party puppets good at pushing pens and writing reports on the unemployed.

    I’m sure you think if you reduce benefits to the over 25′s then you can also free up their flats that they cannot afford the upkeep of or make them believe when you finally put them on the road resurfacing chain gangs for minimum wages that they will be ever so grateful.

    Party politics is shit, not one of the parties vying for power are worth voting for and sat her mouthing off totally unjust policies is time wasting torture.
    People should either be out revolting against you revolting lot or forming a new party which can be done if all these complaining bloggers made it their business to organize for those they purport to be caring about.

  25. second line last paragraph should be here not her.

  26. I’ve posted up labour’s statement on this. They have no intention of reducing benefits

  27. Fuckin’ hell, same old political gossip- mongering without due regard to any facts. abour have stated clearly they will NOT be cutting any benefits. Savvy?. .

  28. Oh and Reeves has also said she wi be scrapping workfare. There was also a pledge of a living wage, and scraping zero hr contracts from Miliband

  29. About time – what took them so long? Lets see if they scrap everything they say they are going to scrap such as bedroom tax and workfare, but I would love to know where they are going to find all of these jobs to slot millions of people into or are they just going to offer shitty jobs to anyone who opposes them knowing they will not be able to refuse without sanctions.

  30. Who to vote for?
    BNP? Fascist
    UKIP? Slightly more clever fascists
    Tories? Crazy right wingers/ fascists
    Lib Dems? Traitors
    Labour? Tories in disguise.
    TUSC? Too small to make a difference

    Is it any wonder that many people don’t bother to vote?

  31. Exactly Thomas.

  32. Don’t vote. Get more of the same.
    “There is nothing immoral about voting for the ‘lesser of two evils’. In a powerful system like ours small changes can lead to big consequences.” Noam Chomsky.

    In the case of the UK, it’s the only intelligent choice to make, since we have a 2 party system by and large. And the lesser of 2 evils is by far the lesser in our case, luckily . Mature people know that nothing is perfect.

    And we also have responsibility towards our fellow citizens, too. And voting for what’s best for them also matters, think of all of those people affected adversely by Tory policies. They matter too. There can’t be many people left that don’t know of someone badly affected, if they aren’t themselves.

    • Thanks but I already knew Labour are evil.

    • I do vote, normally Labour. How different Labour would have been if John Smith had not died. Bliar partly ruined Labour.

    • Eric Greenwood (4727)

      the problem with voting for the lesser of two evils.. is its still Evil..so we get fucked in a different way when labour is in.. than when we get fucked when the tories are in..,

    • kjones
      i like chomsky, he was trying to find answers, he didn’t find many, but it was not for lack of trying..
      no human being can ever be fully mature, unless you can provide a remedy, and/or human beings are compared to wine, whiskey or cheese..
      one must never condone evil no matter how lesser it is.
      that’s interesting, so the only intelligent choice to make, is the one you agree with, so if people don’t agree with you the other is not intelligent…
      seeking and acting in truth, is taking responsibility towards fellow human beings…
      if the government was a car would you buy it? it would be a 1885, benz dog cart…
      i agree with mark twain..”if voting changed anything they would abolish it”, i will look at the candidate list at “election”, time, and decide then if any are worth my vote…

      • No its the only choice, ‘based on maths and logic, not my opinion

        • kjones
          then put the argument for logic forward, don’t muddy the waters, coz it makes me think, that you believe that we can in fact, badger/push labour around to change their ways once they are in power and if so what would that belief be based on…ie, explain logically the advantage for voting for one, over the other, because on the face of things labour will be worse and/or, i know that a 2nd term tory pact, could also well be much, much, worse than things are now, and may likely be worse than what even labour say that they are going to be, as we race to the bottom…so is it a question of which party takes to the bottom the slowest…seems to me now their is logic and clairvoyance at work also, to be able to predict the political landscape after the next GE…unless something drastic happens we are not going to see a socialist state for decades…

          • Extreme far right wing Marxist socialist hard
            leftist centrist upper middle working class..

            • I would get rid of political parties and govt and parliament so we would not have to vote which just causes confusion and trouble instead just have the queen to rule us like in olden days that way we would know our place in soceity which is at the bottom where we belong as we don’t have blue blood..
              I would also make it an offence to abuse marsupials on a Thursday.

          • Labour have laready come up with policy pledges, and indications of socialist underpinning there. What never ceases to amaze me is that no matter what, people continue to spout the same old shit, and come up with the same lame crap that was valid under new labour, but not any longer, since new labour is dead, denounced and gone. I do wish people would pay a little more attention instead of hanging on to tired old tales from yesterday The world has moved on.

            • kjones
              well you avoid answering any questions put to you…to move on, one must 1st, embrace, history and see what it tells one..you once, supported blair now you denounce him, now you support milband, you won’t acknowledge any of the facts put to you, but insist on sticking to the tired old same old behaviourist rhetoric…as i clearly proved in my “she tweeted this link”post, they do intend to slash benefits, and put many of the unemployed, sick and disabled onto min wage (shit, relentless, tedium, inescapable types of work, that we will brutally locked into) , which by the way won’t be worth diddly squat in real terms by that time, and after 2015 arrives, and likely will have no other basic “independent living” benefit types, (some universal benefits and in work benefits will remain), and human beings, will have to find rent and council tax from that amount, this will be our safety net. this will dramatically drive down wages and increase unemployment, sickness and disability, and set up an even more defined class structure of haves, have nots, with a “less eligibility class”, entrenched within the class structure, poverty will be normalised ….all without consent…you treat maturity as if human beings are cheese, and that maturity is what you say it is…to predict future one must always embrace one’s past…

              • Human beings are lumps of cheese…I go well with a handful of grapes

              • The labour press release clearly states they have no intention of cutting benefits. They have also promised a living wage, amongst other things. I keep myself informed about these things.

                ..Rant all you like but that’s a fact and not anything to do with “behaviourist rhetoric”. Or tired militant and impotent ideology. I believe I did answer your question I posted the press release elsewhere. Go check it..

                I also have alternatives to what we have now. You don’t.

            • ksjones
              i and many contributors to this blog, have put forward many ideas and facts about what is actually going on, but you cannot be bothered to read or directly comment on them, but instead continue your same old same old tired move on rhetoric…read my “she tweeted this link” post she clearly endorses slashing benefits, and min wage no choice servitude… they all only want one thing more profit for those who make the laws…

      • NOTA is NOT AN OPTION. It’s a misguided belief that the Tories can be shamed into changing, and that Labour can be coerced into becoming a party for the trots/hard -line militant minority. Tory supporters ALWAYS vote Tory. If you don’t vote, spoil your ballot paper, or vote for a fringe party, we will get the Tories for another 5 year. It’s basic maths and logic.

  33. Nazi evil bastards seem to be pushing it harder and harder against the poor the more they get away with. It’s very scary how quick the new world order is taking shape.

    • By the by if anyone did set up a claimant support party how far would it get in elections seriously ? Just a quick guess would suffice .

      • Oh and not coming across as a single issue party as well. With questions about about defence . policing taxation foreign affairs all that kind of stuff.

        • Chewie

          Stop being a defeatist, who would have thought Ghandi could do what he did without any violence.
          Even those that belong to the labour party are complaining about their policies but still believe they can change them from within – well good luck with that one.
          I would have thought a party fighting for justice in all areas would not be called a claimants party.

          • @fawksey trust me i am not being DE feet ist..but once a party starts talking about how shit it is being on the dole the poxy msm will take over and portray you as a scrounger supporter. Thats the bloody thing idiots who still cling to the belief that main stream press knows wtf its talking about.

            • Bit like the political parties and their advisers chewie.

              • @fawkes yeah and they avoid AM because blogs are written by mad conspiracy types..they think which is odd when you consider how many msm sites bow have blog sites to silence any criticism let’s face it the msm have a lot to lose if ppl stop reading their shit..

          • Stop being a defeatist. Can you study defeatismness..
            .
            There is not enough plankists

        • Claimant Support party I’d imagine would get fair few votes, more ppl now know some one who’s been sanctioned for being 5mins late ect and see how unfair system is?

  34. http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/tag/pip/

    Lucky us we are going to get the atos healthcare channel on youtube . oh what fun…

  35. Anyone else been told that things are about to get even tougher at JCP “in preparation for Universal Credit”? (which they acknowledge might not even happen (if we’re lucky). The advisor I saw last week, and a different one this week, both said that quite a few changes would be introduced very soon but neither seemed to know exactly when. One told me I’d then have to start doing all my job search on Universal Jobmatch for up to 40 hours a week (she also called it ‘intensive jobsearch’ like mentioned in the IPPC report) and said I wouldn’t be able to fill in the ‘looking for work’ paper form anymore. So how are they meant to check what I do on there and when unless I tick the consent box? I’ve got a horrible feeling the DWP are busy trying to come up with a cunning plan to get us to all agree, but I could be wrong. Any JC advisors ever come on here and care to enlighten us? They already have me signing-on every week at different times and on different days.

  36. It’s clear most people here want another four years of Tory rule and that’s what will happen if one does not vote. Got to read between the lines a bit here, that could be the conclusion made, and this time they are likely to get a majority. By the time that happens leaving the country will not be an impossible choice it will become an essential one.. money or not.

    Fact is the country has lost it’s stomach for protest of the type that gets politicians worried, they don’t give a toss if a group of stoned old age hippies stand outside Atos HQ with a coffin or a banner saying this or that, it does not touch them and never will.

    The country has divided and some are happy because they are rich, others are delusional because they are middle class and aspire to think they can become a part of the tory masterplan and not end up as part of their final solution plans that I’m certain would come about across another four years of rule as they goosestep still further to the right… further than many people of this country would have thought possible.

    There are many immigrants in this country who have come to this poisoned island who are grateful and humble, they are not assimilated into the economy of the country and until they are fully aware of this they will be happy to work for peanuts and the Tories calling them all hard working people who should be proud of themselves and are an example for the rest of the country who are unwilling to work for shit pay or no pay at all! and be devalued as a worthy person.

    It’s all so provisional the Tories would not have gotten away with it many years back and thatcher certainly knew how to gauge the climate of public attitudes in some ways putting aside what was done to our manufacturing industry… Tory is Tory is Tory… there is only one scenario, and we all have to pay the price because too many idiots decided to vote for them and those who did not probably never voted or voted tactically and it failed, DV crept in through the backdoor of No.10 and the rest was a slow process of displeasure of enduring such an extreme right wing party who care only for themselves whilst sowing the seeds of illusion of fooling people there is opportunity for those who seek to work hard for it.

    Soon we shall have no human rights.. under the guise of sorting that because it allows terrorists to stay and live off the country whilst preaching and involving themselves with atrocities. Tories want you to have ZERO RIGHTS if they could reduce the excess population by putting us all on water and chains they would.

    • I posted a question about being monitored by dwp on your own computer ..of which raises questions I don’t know if it had actually happened ..then I saw this from an FOI request to DWP.

      Hi all

      On the 26/06/13 I attended an interview at my local JCP where I was asked for the 10th time why I had not signed up to the UJM, I told the adviser that I felt it was an invasion of my privacy and that I would NOT be allowing internet cookies to be installed on my computer to which her response was to insult me and issue me with a Jobseekers Direction to which I had one week to sign up to UJM and upload a CV or my benefit would be stopped.

      Any advice on how I should proceed with this as I am due back at the JCP on the 03/07/13 (4 days’ time) to discuss how I got on with this Direction.

      I find this quite alarming that govt dept can tell you what you can cannot do on your own PC…

      • Reality is how many people even have a CV to upload?… it’s often a constant illusion that people who have been wrongly found to be fit for work when they are mentally and/or physically disabled or long term unemployed and are disillusioned even have one!, their cv would probably turn potential employee’s off… how do you table dance in a wheelchair?. I know the inner part of you just wants to tell them to f— off! then you get a sanction and lose your JSA… for the good it provides to live on. It’s a difficult dilemma. It’s alarming for sure!… democracy no longer exists in the true sense of the word in the UK… rather like people not knowing what benefits they are entitled to and presume because they are denied one they are not entitled to it legally, ignorance again remains on the legality of a good majority of the enforcement people encounter, one more turn of the screw and it will all be over… fully assimilated into the tory regime.. look straight ahead, don’t ask questions, don’t expect a damn thing and you won’t be disappointed. In some respects if it feels like a breach of your human rights of choice then deep down it is regardless of the kind of policies this fascist party wish to shaft us with hard and deep to get away with it. People are scared and understandably fearful of not being able to pay the rent .. get food on the table or even have a job that pays instead of playing Tory games with the unemployment figures whilst flushing millions of pounds of tax payers money down the shithole which makes the idea of reducing the welfare bill laughable. Whilst they are still stuffing money away in bank accounts in their cats name. Whilst sickeningly rich fat slugs live in this country and pay little or no tax through a series of loopholes it makes one feel like a piece of doggy doo scraped off the sole of someone’s handmade shoe’s.

        • er there is this european rule about privacy..lets not forget that…DWP seem to ignore that..or idiots at jcp do..

        • Saints and scroungers a programme whichI only ever watch by accident depicted a girl who had to leave her home town to seek work, she only wanted to be a hairdresser and had training in women’s hair but not mens so was considered unemployable. She was given a TRAINING placement with an employer who told her she had to start at the bottom before learning to cut men.s hair, sweep floors, wash hair, make tea etc and the employer was paid from the wage incentive scheme, while she got slave labour with very little training it seems. There are never any follow ups of these trainees to see if they were back on benefits, that is if they ever got off them fully in the first place, having moved out of town someone had to pay for her lodgings or flat. The cheap skate employer was probably looking for the next unemployed youth to exploit, because he was not in the business of training someone up to take business away from him.

          You never hear of a saints and scroungers on how big business is fiddling it’s taxes and how they are chased from here to Timbuktu by the scrounger fraud team to collect the evidence on them and expose them for all to see.

          No wonder Andrew Neil on the politics laughingly calls the BBC an impartial broadcaster.

    • Eric Greenwood (4727)

      even when labour gets in we still will have a tory government..

  37. totally given up

    four legs good,two legs better four legs good two legs better…four legs bad two legs good four legs bad two legs better,,two legs better four legs good…two legs ok four legs wonderfull..towo legs terrible four legs the business…bah bah bah bash grunt grunt pass the trough

  38. totally given up

    everybody join the TA,s and then youll get no more shit,no atos pushed up the housing list and can tell all the world ” did i tell you im in the SAS” give em an army on the cheap too,funny council are putting red TA signs up today and before anyone asks,yes i did 15 years in rthe forces and being treated like shit

  39. Pingback: More Workfare, More Sanctions, Labour Think Tan...

  40. Pingback: More Workfare, More Sanctions, Labour Think Tank Proposals Are Just The Same Old Deal | thepositivevoice

  41. Surely there’s an age discrimination case here. Whatever policies are introduced purely on grounds of age that are detrimental to people should be illegal. Of course, they’ll say it’s ‘helping’ them, but this could be contested in court.

    It’s part of a social trend in other contexts, of treating legal adults (16 in Scotland, 18 elsewhere in the UK) as children and depriving them of autonomy. They’re planning to keep ‘children’ in care until age 21, and continuing to offer ‘protection’ (i.e. control) until 26. Again, it’s all in the interest of helping the vulnerable, the disadvantaged, etc.

  42. Even the courts are less aggressive regarding unpaid work then the jobcentre.

    http://m.thisiscornwall.co.uk/story.html?aid=20111767

    You won’t starve if you refuse unpaid work as a punishment but you could do for being unemployed.

    • I dont get this punishment bit..you have a job then you don’t so you get punished ..the
      Company fires you so they can get some one cheaper but you get punished ..

      Strange morals there I think

  43. here they are, these wonderful people who are ‘not in it for the money’

    http://www.ippr.org/our-people

    and wwhere their money comes from

    http://www.ippr.org/about-us/how-we-are-funded

    • What a strange bunch of funders. Campaign for real ale ( expect policy on booze and pubs) and EON ( expect policy on why energy companies can charge what they like) and capita ( expect policy on the benefits of out sourcing)

  44. JSA/ESA, it’s basically the same thing to these idiots, just one letter different.

    What they don’t grasp is that the more difficult it’s made to stay in the work-related group of ESA, the more people will try to get into the support group (and will qualify on substantial risk to health from the increased conditionality.) The same thing is happening from JSA to ESA as well, and the whole thing descends into an absurd arms race.

  45. just got an e mail to say ids is up before the committee 9th December and to look at the mirror article.http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/how-iain-duncan-smiths-inaccurate-2809297

  46. ATOS UTTER BOLLOCKS VIDEO HERE PLEASE COMMENT AND SAY RUDE THINGS ABOUT THEM..

      • Donkey this is a one time special offer since they banned everyone from slagging them off on youtube I thought I would help widen the debate.. Now i think of it I wonder if they would claim copyright infringement ..do they own public information do they own the rights to WCA …? There’s a thought..

      • Aha this is very strange indeed I now have a screen telling me that something went wrong in processing the second Atos shire video and how sorryvfor inconvience and at same time in email that video has been uploaded and is available ..

        https://vimeo.com/m/80000980

        So guys check the link and see what happens

      • http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/good-for-nothing-scrounging-baby-scum-out-of-control-reveals-daily-mail.309344/

        Donkey this is one of the reasons why we fight…the hate filled idiocy induced bile spewn from non critical thinkers all fed by HM govt …

        • chewie
          yeah, almost parody, some quite funny….

          • @donkey depends on how sensitive you are..for someone who suffers from mental health problems it could drive them over the edge..let’s not forget that eh?

            • chewie
              what do you mean, you posted it. it is supposed to be satire…

              • Donkey ..is it ? Didnt realise you can’t tell these days there are plenty of idiots who really think like that and much worse..
                Well first reading anyone not well could take it the wrong way

            • chewie
              personally i don’t fight the world, only those who think that they own my immediate world and can have a direct affect on my immediate world…i hone down the fight, so as to make reasonable sized chunks, focus on those who have direct affect on our lives, and directly affect our wellbeing. focus on what is most effective, to stop abusers getting in, and repel them with strong argument, against their abusive actions, give ‘em an inch and they take a mile…there are some truly vile people out there, they use their rhetoric against the collective “we” “i” working classes, to try to trigger guilt, ie scrounger, lazy, etc etc, as far as i am concerned they can keep it to themselves..ie judge thee not lest ye be judged yourself..we are being attacked on an unprecedented scale, we have to defend or we become engulfed, push them back, push them away, don”t invite them in…don’t search for them, there is enough abuse to deal with already….learn from others who do this well….

          • chewie
            atos are very rude…telling us now our minds are crap, and that we cannot live without their externalisations of events…what happens to us is now, a myth caused by our own confusion, and that our concerns are not real, how dare they…

  47. yeehah !! the Atos bullshit video is there..come on guys post away..

  48. Reblogged this on The Thoughts of a Ginge.

  49. Polly Toynbee urges the young to get out and vote next General Election:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/22/young-vote-lost-generation-strike-back-coalition

  50. It’s about time some of the faceless bastards that work behind the scenes of the DWP, and broke ranks to show they have some sympathy for the people they are sending to their graves……..

    Nothing is so easy as pretending you don’t know what’s happening.

    Cowardice, while others are subjected to pure evil, is akin to witnessing a murder and failing to come forward with evidence to nail the perpetrator……….

    Most of the DWP staff are part of a union, Unions were structured to help others from the wrath of unpleasant employers by combining their unified strengths and speaking as one……………

    The word YELLOW comes to mind, cowering behind their desks as the letters of social hate spew forth into the arms of the most vulnerable……

    The question of MAN or MOUSE seems totally appropriate.

    “WILL YOU SIT BACK AND WATCH YOUR MASTERS DESTROY THE LIVES OF INNOCENT VICTIMS, KNOWING YOU ARE PART OF THE MECHANISM THAT ENABLES IT?”

    or will you cower in fear of what might be said by a bullying boss?

    “WAS TAKING LIVES PART OF THE REMIT OF YOUR EMPLOYMENT?”

    FOR CHRIST’S SAKE, START TO REALISE WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

    IT’S NO GOOD GIVING EVIDENCE AT AN INQUEST, IF YOU WERE IN A POSITION TO STOP IT BEFORE IT HAPPENED.

    “Let your consciences be your guiding light”………………..

  51. Pingback: What We Learned Last Week (18/13 – 24/13) «

  52. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BLOGGER ADVOCATING SINGLE MUMS TURNING THEIR HOUSES INTO “gOBLIN HOUSES” TO PAY IN KIND FOR THEIR BENEFITS AND SATE THE APPETITES OF PERVS WHO WOULD PERHAPS MOLEST OTHERWISE.

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