Work When You’re Sick Say New DWP Guidelines

work-makes-meNew advice issued to doctors, patients and employers on sick pay shows just how far the Government intend to push the brutal regime for people on disability or sickness benefits into the workplace.

The DWP recently renamed ‘sick notes’ as ‘fit notes’ which in the new guidance has led to some genuinely Orwellian gobbledygook such as:  “if your employee’s doctor thinks they are fit for work, they will not be issued with a fit note.”

Just like the despised Atos run Work Capability Assessment, doctors can now declare a patient ‘fit for work’, unfit for work, or capable of some work but not necessarily the job they usually do.  This means that if an employer makes some changes to a staff member’s working conditions then they may be forced back to work.

The new rules, which were devised in consultation with the Confederation of British Industry, seem little more than an attempt to bully people into work when they aren’t really well enough.  The document is littered with bold claims that work is good for your health such as “People can often come back to work before they are 100% fit – in fact work can even help their recovery”.

Nowhere in the documents does it warn that people’s conditions may also be made far worse by going back to work before they are ready.

Bosses have welcomed the chance to force their sick employees back to work with one quoted as calling the new system ‘a joy':

“The joy of the fit note is that it’s flexible enough for us to interpret and fit the GP’s recommendation within the context of our business.”

The truth is that the DWP are playing a dangerous game and could tempt employers into a legal minefield.  One stark warning says:  “You may need to carry out a risk assessment to accommodate the clinical judgment in the fit note (eg if it states that your employee should avoid lifting, you are liable if you give them work that involves manual handling).”

In a further complication, according to guidance from Citizen’s Advice, if employers refuse to make changes to an employee’s working conditions to accommodate doctor’s recommendations, then they are still liable to pay Statutory Sick Pay.  The confusion doesn’t even end there.  ‘Fit Notes’ are advice only and bosses are not legally obliged to follow that advice.  They can sack you even if a doctor claims you are too ill to work.  They could however then be taken to court.  Employment tribunal lawyers will be rubbing their hands in glee at the DWP’s meddling with an already complex  legal situation.

The DWP have already shown they are happy to play fast and loose with the Courts.  Bosses who act the same way may be in for an expensive shock.

The guidance can be read at: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/fitnote/

(The above google graphic – which is genuine, try it – was stolen from somewhere but I can’t remember where – please put a link in the comments if it was you and I’ll add a credit)

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146 responses to “Work When You’re Sick Say New DWP Guidelines

  1. No one should work when they are ill.
    Am convinced my M.E. is the result of not giving my body enough time to recover after illness.
    Am really worried about the changes. If I have to go into WRAG then there will come a point when I will be unable to continue and then get sanctioned.

    The phrase “They want to drive us into an early grave” springs all too readily to mind.
    We are nothing but disposable units of economic production for the benefit of the elite.
    BAAAAAAA!

    • Working us to our deaths. Where is the enjoyment, the quality of life, where is the time just to do something you find personally fulfilling that has nothing to with work or making money. By the way, chibipaul, I have a close family member with ME and I know how debilitating it can be – also how humiliating – being put through a battery ram of ridiculous tests which are just designed to catch you out – and force you back to work when your body cannot even get you out of bed because it hurts so much. Anything you can’t put a monetary value on is worthless. Born, work, die, what else is there?

    • something survived...

      They prefer us to dig the graves on workfare with no food then jump in the graves and wait to die. “Hurry up, die faster” – IDS.

  2. Pingback: Work When You're Sick Say New DWP Guidelines | Welfare, Disability, Politics and People's Right's | Scoop.it

  3. @johnny void the CBI what do you expect..i posted a link where the CBI was in favour of UC…..

    • What else can we expect bob?,I’ve not had time to read links yet but the CBI is the bosses ‘union’ so they would be in favour of UC. wouldn’t they?Sometimes it’s necessary to push on through in work while not feeling 100% well. However the suggestion that people work while suffering significant illness is beneath contempt and confirmation that human beings are currently regarded with less respect than machines. My opinion about this,if Iwrote it now, would not pass the censor

      • @susancybutterfly i have postyed my experince at tesco the poor woman on chekout with flu..did anyone consider shopworkers with infectious diseases?

        • Shoplifters of the World Unite

          You not got a self-service* in your Tesco, Bob?

          * unexpected item in the bagging area :-)

        • something survived...

          This is true: if you are sick you are told simultaneously to stay at home, and to go to work. If you go home they say you should be at work. If you go to work they say you are endangering and infecting everyone.

  4. Sun readers believe that 90% of Disability claimants are “faking it” … a smell of the same mindset here!!!

    • Obi Wan Kenobi

      What do you expect from a rag like that!

      The only thing The Sun has ever been good for is Page 3 – Oh and I once got a whopping great England flag (made from material and flagpole compatible)

      • I wouldn’t exactly say Page 3 of the SUN was one of its good points!!

        • Obi Wan Kenobi

          Jane Susanna Ennis:

          Quite right – it’s two of it’s good point’s! – if you get my meaning!

          Sorry that was very Low brow, but i’m that kinda guy.

          • something survived...

            Mary Wollstonecraft and ‘A vindication of the rights of women’, reworded for the ‘Anus’.
            “Getcher steamin’ ‘ot fresh Anus ‘ere!”

            1) Name’s gotta go.
            2) We don’t do long words.
            3) Rights for bints? Don’t make me larf.
            4) Get that top off, yer daft cow.

            Okay, going to press now….

            NUTS BURSTIN’ FER THIS MISS!
            Moll Woll, 38-19-30, is a bit of a mental slapper. She wants birds to be free, like us people are. Silly little girl, only people have dicks. Birds don’t, and aren’t! Ha ha!
            We’ll chain her to a sink/bed and teach her a thing or two. We took her at her word, and freed her lovely jubblies. Mr Hand will be busy tonight!
            Come on lads, let’s get her stuck to the back of page two. She should be free – of her knickers!

            Coming soon: Brainy Science Slags With Their Bras Off
            Barely Legal 16 year olds [we're not paedos, honest]
            Political Topless Totty
            Army Co-Eds in the Shower

        • Landless Peasant

          Absolutely. The Sun is nothing more than expensive toilet paper.

    • Articles in ‘The Sun’ aim to be in the style of a reading age of 12 (years).
      (fact courtesy of ‘Reading Matters’ West Yorkshire) @2013.

      • @shirleynott thats a bit adult isnt it?

      • Reading age isn’t indicative of intelligence levels though, (there’s a good newspaper ‘for’ children – in most school libraries/some supermarkets) which has informative/well-written articles. ‘The Sun’ is supposed to be for adults & so writing at this level might involve ‘simplifying’ the message a fair bit (?) … Shouldn’t affect the tone/language used necessarily though – that’s a separate issue that is beyond my remit to try make sense of.

        • @shirleynott one day on our tv sets we will have ‘mood control’ where can aleter the mood opf the output..eg NEWS (happy, funny,sad, depressing , serious, angry) samw with movies..we are close to IDIOT Levell because we are going to enter the phase where we can pre select content and filter out stuff we dont like..how is that for self censorship?

        • English Teacher

          No, shirleynott, it is based on the Flesch–Kincaid readability test! Someone with the reading level of a “moron” can read the Sun. It is hardly Dostoyevsky!

      • English Teacher

        Yes Bob, the Sun is set at the reading level of a “moron”.

    • Rank hypocrisy from the warmongering rag, Cheers “our boys” off into a war that’s none of our business, conveniently overlooking the fact that many of them will come back minus legs, arms or both.& then end up having to claim DLA. Is someone with no legs “faking” it, they’re not exactly going to grow back are they?

      Did anyone else catch VagueHague’s statement about sending assistance to the Syrian Al-Quaida backed “rebels”. Always seems to be plenty of readies when there’s conflict about. When will our numpty politicians learn to keep their noses out of other countries affairs?

  5. Obi Wan Kenobi

    These politicians who are making all these rules will come to rue the day they did, because these rules must apply to them also or they mean nothing.

    Can you imagine: IDS, Hoban or Freud comes down with a critical injury or worse, and if we were still under the old rules they would be declaired disabled and not fit for work.

    Under the new rules however they would be declared fit for work by an ATOS assessment and would now be put on JSA, The Work Programme and be subject to sanctions for a transgression.

    We can only hope they and the rest of these bastards who make the rules someday have to experience the shitty system they have created.

    • Even if they did get ill or become disabled, IDS and friends will never have a negative experience of the sytem they created as it only affects those who need to claim benefits for financial support.

  6. Those well known medical ‘experts’ the Confederation of British Industry. The whole thing ideologically driven.

  7. “Think of not what you CAN’T do, but what you CAN do” ‘rolleyes’

    What a massive loophole.

    • something survived...

      “If you can roll your eyes you can use an eye movement activated computer, which we’re not going to give you. But because you could in theory use one, we are declaring you fit for work.”

      “If you are paralysed you can lick stamps.”

      “If you are deaf you can be assessed as if you need a wheelchair, though it is irrelevant. On the basis of a notional wheelchair, we are going to ignore your actual needs and take away all your benefit. PS we just closed down your local deaf support group.”

      “If you have cerebral palsy you can haul 50kg of bricks up a ladder. Even if you weigh less than the bricks.”

      “If you are under 5ft tall we recommend that you should be a shelf stacker, where the shelves are 7ft up.”

      “If incontinent, simply poo yourself and carry on working.”

      “On a ventilator? Crawl up a mountain with it, and clean the mountain! With a toothbrush!”

      “If you can fuck up a country in your sleep: congratulations, you are David Cameron or IDS or Chris Grayling. Please collect a 20 million pound bonus.”

  8. Looks like we need some form of legally binding form that people can get doctors to sign to take responsibility for sending people back to work… personally and they are responsible for any harm that comes to the patient becasue of them been forced back to work.

    Time to make it a hypocratic oath and not a hypocritic oath.

    Make them personally responsible for their callous actions with repercussions and see what happens.

    • In other words…

      “OK Doctor, I understand that you are sending me back to work and saying that I am ok to do so… Just sign here confirming that you take full responsibility for your actions and anything that happens as a result of your decision.. here is a list of the fee’s should anything un-toward happen”

      • Obi Wan Kenobi

        Paul:

        It would be a good idea to make up a template for such a form and try to get it endorsed and distributed by the Britsh Medical Council.

      • @PAUL I was in tesco once and a woman on checkout had flu she was very ill..she was frightened of taking day off for fear of getting sacked..so her fellow workers had flu as well hundreds of customers that passed through checkout

  9. cameron to the CBI: “we can do away with all the pesky red tape, do things now in 2 weeks that used to take months” they are all in this together.

    • Obi Wan Kenobi

      This is exactly why all of their welfare policies are falling apart at the seams – nothing is ever thought through anymore, professionals and the general public are never consulted.

      Welcome to Cameron’s Big Society where everything can be done in no time at all – according to the Con-Dems.

      • durhamgreenparty

        This is why they needed civil servants – someone to check through all of the different vagaries of a potential policy and point out how stupid it all is! However, Cameron would rather cut their jobs under the guise of ‘getting rid of red tape’ and then employ, at far greater expense, an additional 300 quangos (after he said he would cut the numbers of those before he got in, they were already at 516 back then) and a host of business-led consultants.

        Civil servants may be expensive and liable to potentially corrupt, but they’re easily the lesser of two evils and at least they pay their taxes!

    • @paul the CBI WERE ALL IN FAVOUR OF WORKFARE I HAVE POSTED THEIR RESPONSES ON HERE.

  10. Hi, bloggers, regarding statistics in regards for successful use of DWP Regulations was that last year 67% of the successes came from the law in Tribunal.

    SUE THE ARSE’S OF THEM.

    Breaches of Regs 29 and 35 of the ESA regulations 2008 stating that risk to appellant and public must be assessed and taken into account of the risk of exacerbating or inflicting their conditions to deteriorate. This is law made by the Goverment,yet it appears the laws everyone else has to adhere to can be ignored by those who are unable to understand our English language who govern us.

    If anyone,has a fall, accident anything, during travelling to WRAG ,ATOS medical or job interview arranged by DWP and you hurt yourself or members of public, find a no blame no claim solicitor and sue the shit out of them,you wouldn’tt of been there if they hadn’t forced you to attend.This includes mental health related issues, ie, causing disturbance in a public arena, ie police being called out to you in a job center, this is evidence of breaches Regs 29b as you would not of attended had they not forced you there

  11. And then…it depends what work you do….if you’ve had any kind of gastric complaint and you work in any branch of the food or catering industry, you CANNOT GO BACK TO WORK WITHOUT ENDANGERING THE HEALTH, NOT ONLY OF YOUR COLLEAGUES BUT THAT OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC. I know a lot of us have (well had, in my case, since I’m a pensioner) a tendency to go back to work before we’ve fully recovered from bouts of flu, and of course it makes us worse….

    • @JANE ITS CALLED THE BLEEDING OBVIOUS..

    • something survived...

      Except they force you to go to work. Imagine untrained workfare staff in a hospital canteen for patients and the public, forced to go to work with flu or e-coli. Especially patients with lowered immune systems.
      Also they can say work or be sacked.

  12. Another bonkers plan from idiots according to a government minister theres approx. 330.000 vacancies so if all these were filled it would still mean millions unemployed how do they square that circle, they need to wise up and admit full employment is a dream

    • I also wonder what percentage of those vacancies are those from high-turnover jobs like telesales, where they continually advertise for vacancies which might not necessarily exist. (Till someone walks out anyway)

  13. Real employers are not employing those signed off the sick by atos anyway it’s just charities who still subscribe to the work programme.

  14. Please support Sue Marsh’s #ESAendgame campaign to finally break ESA.
    http://diaryofabenefitscrounger.blogspot.com/2013/03/esa-sos-starting-gun.html

  15. Obi Wan Kenobi

    Labour outlines measures to restrict benefits for new EU arrivals in UK.

    The shadow home secretary says that swift action is possible within existing European rules to ban new migrants claiming jobseeker’s allowance within a few days or weeks. This could be done by adding a “presence” test to the existing habitual residence test which new migrants currently have to meet to claim unemployment benefits.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/07/labour-measures-restrict-benefits-arrivals

    My Comment:

    About Bloody Time.

    • Obi Wan Kenobi

      Labour’s decision to more than match the government’s attempt to tighten new migrants’ access to benefits and public services comes in advance of the complete opening of the British labour market to Bulgarians and Romanians at the end of the year.

      • @obi lets see how we can be nasty than the nasty party no wonder ppl are vbecoming sick of the establishment

        • Obi Wan Kenobi

          I’ve no time for fucking immigrants coming over here (unless they are millonaries and are prepared to pay into our tax system) and take the piss with OUR benefits system whilst sending some of OUR benefits back home to support their fucking tribes. – sorry mate Yvette Cooper is spot with this.

          • @obi wan kenobi do you incude doctors? never mind i wont get into this shit…they are not my enemy..the corps, the paedos, the govt pretty much are..

          • Most immigrants (leaving out a few mafia members) just want a better life and are perfectly willing to work.

            • And destroy wages and Terms and Conditions, that the people of this country have fought for over the years. Basically fuck things up for the low paid of this country, make a few bob and knob off home. A nice revolving door of cheap labour while the people of this country loose out.

            • “……..just want a better life”
              Where will they live this life, in YOUR spare room(s) (if you have any)?

              “……….perfectly willing to work”
              Work where? There are more people unemployed than there are vacancies.

              I’m not being flippant when I ask these questions. This country’s resources are finite.

          • @Obi Wan Kenobi | March 7, 2013 at 5:48 pm |

            Immigrants – non working – read the article – D’oh! :-)

    • You are being led up the garden path!!!, thats what they want you to think, they are just demonsing another helpless group, just like they are doing to the disabled/unemployed, etc.

      Your concerns would be better put to use if you asked questions about the untaxed trillions of pounds leaving the shores of the UK into off-shore accounts!!!.

      • @annos the great distraction..

        • bobchewie,

          Yes, we must never allow them to divide and conquer us, we are all one living on the same world.

          • @annos well i am living in a one world but i dont recognise it..

          • @annos how does any of this fit in wirh occupational health and if you are injured at work or indeed your medical condition is exacerbated by the workplace???

          • “……….we are all one living on the same world.”

            But it doesn’t necessarily follow that we should all live on THIS island archipelago. This country’s housing, health and education resources are stretched as it is.

            • refusenik,

              They made it to be that way, it was all planned out before 1979. Get the people fighting against each other, and take the spotlight off their own evil doing’s…” divide and conquer”, look at what happened to the miners, they got families fighting each other, the bitterness lasts to this day!. …Ask yourself the question…Why has all this come about in the first place, why did those who rule allow it to happen. What did anyone think would happen when you change a society/economy from an industrial base to a service based economy, as a high up in the CBI said in about 1983…”You can’t do this, you can’t base an economy on a service base, its not sustainable, you can’t create wealth by having an economy where peoples work is based on serving each other coffee, this is insane”…His words.

              And what were the evil ones doing..making untold sums with their criminal manipulation of the global financial market’s.

              So easy for them, so easy…

          • No reply button on your post at ‘Annos | March 8, 2013 at 12:48 pm’ so posting here.

            Read my post again, easily accomplished as it’s short and has a point, then address it in a less rambling manner.

            • refusenik,

              My post is easy to understand, there is nothing “rambling” about it!. It is you who should read my post again, not the other way round!!!. I don’t need to read your post again, we all know the point of your post refusenik!.

          • Again, no reply button.

            And the point of my post is………?

          • Again, no reply button.

            Stop dodging, what is your interpretation of what it states?

          • Again, no reply button.
            Annos | March 9, 2013 at 10:41 am
            “…………we all know the point of your post refusenik!.”

            A pejorative comment if ever there was one.
            I repeat:
            And the point of my post is………?

            Before answering please read:
            dont-trust-labour-on-the-bedroom-tax
            refusenik | March 4, 2013 at 11:22 am

      • Agreed it just playing their game – setting one group of the lower orders against other. Don’t fuel the nationalist bigots by blaming ordinary people. It was Batcherism that used the shock treatment (mass immigration) to allow the rich to amass greater wealth. When you are part of the small percentage with money (includes Blair and much of the present cabinet), and are doing well, it takes the mind away from the impact of wider social issues.

        Just as multi-nationals can cause economic shock to a community by leaving at the drop of a hat so the globalization movement have turned what should be a good (free-movement of workers) into another weapon just like they do with everything else. Don’t blame the workers.

    • There is no logic in the fact this country will allow that influx of EU arrivals into this country because they are tied legally, so they come and claim benefits… really bridging cultural divides, we have so many illegal’s over here they have no clue where they are, this is only compounded by this situation that many live on false identities to gain access to the health services and so forth. And the laughable thing is the moment we start to question the integrity of immigration policies it suddenly becomes a racial thing rather than one based upon facts and figures. Compared to many EU countries we are a small island with people soon to be tipping off the edges into the ocean, people have become alienated in their home towns and are losing their identities and culture because of this government and past governments red carpet policies towards large-scale immigration.

      We can look back in political history and Enoch Powell’s Rivers of Blood speech and be less critical about it being racial bigotry simply because we saw those who opposed were equally bigoted in their own attitude in allowing it but not on their rich manicured turf. Today it can simply come down to facts and figures, it’s actually frighteningly prophetic.. look where we are today?, the things we see and hear.. is it because it was right?.. I doubt it.. also it’s legal for a Landlord to advertise a home and say “No DSS” but if it said “No Immigrants” he would be dragged into court, but discrimination against the mentally and physically disabled along with the unemployed is fine, especially as the Tories are responsible for the job losses and so forth.

      and today we get stuff like this….

      anti-claimant racist bollocks removed, if you want to divide working class people then fuck off somewhere else and do it – jv

      • @MOI NO BLACKS NO IRISH NO DOGS

      • I have reported that video (for all the good it will do) as racist, which it clearly is. The uploader has disabled comments but 3424 people compared to 580 liked it.
        Things like that just depress and upset me. Maybe i should be thicker skinned, but I’m just fed up with this kind of regressive crap. It’s the 21st century ffs. Apparently this racist islamophobic bollocks is the ‘true story’ of how asylum seekers (something completely different to economic migrants) are causing britain’s downfall.

  16. Health and Safety at Work etc. Act (HSWA) 1974

    You also have responsibilities under the Health and Safety at Work Act to protect employees, after they return to work, if they have become more vulnerable to risk because of illness, injury or disability.
    Employment Legislation

    If you consider taking action to discipline or dismiss employees for ill health reasons, remember that you have responsibilities under the:

    * Employment Rights Act 1996 link to external website[2], to adopt fair procedures before dismissing employees on grounds of sickness absence;
    * Employment Act 2002 (Dispute Regulations) 2004 link to external website[3], to adopt statutory minimum dismissal, disciplinary and grievance procedures.

    • something survived...

      Workfare aren’t employees and aren’t people.
      If you dismiss somebody for being disabled who is NEVER absent. You are okay.

      NEWSFLASH: Health and Safety at Work Act to be abolished, and replaced by Boris Johnson’s Laundry List.

  17. DEAR ALL IT BECOMES A HEALTH AND SAFETY ISSUE….

  18. Certification

    After 7 days, the patient’s employer can ask for reasonable medical evidence to support payment of SSP. The patient can obtain a medical statement confirming that their GP has advised them to refrain from work.

    If the patient is still incapable of work after 28 weeks, they may make a claim for Employment and Support Allowance

    • Obi Wan Kenobi

      After October (unless you live in Lancashire) they will have to apply for Universal Credit – if the UC pathfinder goes to plan in April.

    • something survived...

      So if your employer wants to sack you saying you are too sick, Atos wants to sack you… but your GP does not agree you are too sick – what then? Can’t get SSP without medical proof. (or if it is for something too personal to talk about)
      If you claim ESA then Atos will say you are fit for work and kick you onto JSA, where you have an Acting Skills Workshop to get you pretending to be fit for work.

  19. It will be interesting to see how this fits in with Disability Leave, leave granted to disabled employees in addition to annual leave and instead of sickness absence so that they don’t have to be off sick to deal with the specific consequences of being disabled.

    • @lewiepsmummu and health and safety oh wait dont Atos and Fom ie Dr PAUL LITCHFILED HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH?? WEIRD THAT…

    • something survived...

      Must be fulltime permanent worker not on zero hour contract, to even qualify for this or other employee rights.
      If you are a disabled carer of a disabled person, both of you are to be forced into work programme or workfare or CAP or WRAG.

  20. A study in Australia a couple of years back has shown unemployment is preferable to menial labour, since the latter has a negative impact on mental and physical health. Not all work is “good for you”, a lot of work – such as is increasingly found in our economy – is actively bad for you, and is best avoided (If the government will let you, that is).

    More on that Australian study here:

    http://thethirdestate.net/2011/04/quit-your-day-job-study-finds-unemployment-preferable-to-menial-labour/

  21. I certainly agree that people with real problems should not be forced to do inappropriate work. However, I am a great believer in the fact that many on benefits could actually do something – IF they really wanted to. My greatest source of inspiration for this is this lady in Australia – laid up in bed due to 5 slipped discs. Unable to walk, sit, lie for any length of time. Spaced out on painkiller most of the time. Still managed to forge an income via the power of the internet. This is her story – http://zti.me/ruO

  22. Christopher Pickard

    You must be one of those that subscribe to ‘the let’s get rid of welfare altogether’ brigade, as everybody is capable of doing some work no matter what their illness or disability in or your eyes.

  23. Obi Wan Kenobi

    although I am in favour of curtailing immigrants, I think all EU citizens should be given a right to apply and should be entitled to healthcare and benefits if we agreed to let them in, your too strict.

    • @guy fawkes most people move about to find source of income a bit like herds of animals look for watering holes..and food sources..

      • Societies has always erected barriers close to home to preserve their own resources. You erect barriers too, such as your locked door to prevent other people ‘grazing’ in your kitchen, or plugging an extention into your electricity supply.

  24. Chewie

    I could think of hundreds of jobs that people are employed as and are getting well paid for, yet none of them are meaningful or necessary’ usually positions occupied so called educated middle class.

    • something survived...

      Working in a call centre to a script with no real help to the people on the other end, no toilet breaks… soul destroying. The risk of sacking for not reaching a quota. Maybe not physically as bad as carting bricks on your shoulder up a ladder. but what does it do to your humanity? Imagine doing the same numbing mcjob day in day out from age 16 to age 75, whatever the job is. Futility? Meaninglessness? Zombification?

  25. chewie

    I wonder what the statistics are for uk unemployed applying to EU countries seeking work ?

    • @guy guy i think its dwp DEFINTION OF ‘MEANINGFUL’

    • something survived...

      they are in our ‘local jobs’ this week. ‘must relocate to munich’. In a creative reinterpretation of ‘local’, one job was in Yemen and one job was in Dubai. People can be mandated to apply for these.

  26. @guy fawkes is there a statistic site (ons) of jobless going to EU you could look there..

  27. It’s laughable if it was not so serious, can you imagine society tolerating this kind of thing years ago in this so-called democratic country?.. I think not. The truth is we live in a selfish cold-hearted society where nobody cares about each other even if they appear sympathetic, love and humanity may only exist the moment you enter your home and ends the moment you leave it and venture to the streets into a world that exists without compassion.

    The government spout their bile and some idiots believe it, that is their problem but for ever good man woman and child out there feeling seriously
    repressed you must remember there are people who do hate you for no other reason but the fact you may be mentally or physically disabled or be unfortunate to be unemployed and for that alone we have this hideous Tory led coalition comprising of hideous subhuman fascist capitalists who none of us have a single thing in common with and people trust them to run this country, that is as naïve as it gets given past history, people did not learn a single thing from the 80’s and 90’s.. except when the Poll Tax was introduced we saw what people thought of that!.

    This coalition knows they are comfortably ruling in an undemocratic manner and they know society has become submissive to their policies and cannot resist them because they have focused on the weakest people in society and are effectively beating them with a big stick as they crawl up into a ball and cry and scream whilst their foot soldiers laugh and make jokes about the situation. What you choose to believe from this coalition is down to you as an individual but If it was physical violence towards the weakest and often loneliest in society could you sleep at night knowing it’s taking place in close proximity or even towards loved one’s?.

    Even if you are a Tory voter or a Lib-Dem, take a step back for a moment…is it for the good of the country?.. for the good of taxpayers… for the good of you! does it fit?… read between the lines, you know the only good that is likely to come out of this almost quasi class genocide will be failure and the repercussions from these policies. Cameron will not even be a footnote in political history, as for Clegg…. nobody really cares about him as long as he throws feeble spanners into the Tory fascist machine, we can only thank for small mercies that the Tories never won an outright majority but that could happen in the future if you allow it to be so, the joy of democracy in the hands of those who may not give a damn.

  28. I didn’t know you worked chewie other than be jv’s spamalot and our researcher.

  29. a little info on ian smith(ian duncan smith)
    andy

  30. a boot continually stamping on the face of humanity comes to mind
    peace is war
    freedom is slavery
    ignorance is strength
    tory policy or past master
    andy

  31. Probably from Iain Duncan-Smith’s pov we (but not himself) are all sinners.
    http://welfareuk.wordpress.com/2013/02/23/charities-using-forced-labour-supplied-by-the-dwp/
    That he used the word “sin” seems to indicate he is using divine sanction to support his own warped understanding of right and wrong.

    • Iain Duncan Smith is Britain’s Grand Inquisitor – a cruel, cold-hearted, vicious, pitiless, sadistic, hate-filled religious zealot, who genuinely believes he has been sent on a divine mission by Christ to reform the idle. He truly believes he is being ‘cruel to be kind’ when he devises policies that humiliate, impoverish and psychologically torture the sick, disabled and unemployed. He considers ‘idleness’ (unemployment due to lack of jobs or ill health) to be the very gravest of sins. In his delusional mind, Jesus is a sociopath just like he is. He is the mad monk. He is an inadequate man who is furious at the world for not recognising his greatness and intends to make the world pay. His sick, twisted, depraved, deranged personality is very much like Hitler’s. He would have slotted right in into Hitler’s government. He is Hitler, minus the intelligence, cunning and dark charisma.

  32. If these notes are used properly by all concerned id be more than happy with a system like this as I have a mental illness which was bought on by circumstance. My doctor has declared me unfit for work, but I don’t want to be ill, and want to get well. This has been used against me by the DWP and even some friends. I feel that I can do some work with support, but what are the chances of this support being given before it’s too late? There are many people who will lose out from this system because it’s not going to be used properly. But for many people with mental health issues like mine or minor problems it could work

    • Landless Peasant

      But who is the best judge of whether an illness/condition is major or minor; the sufferer & their GP, or the DWP and company bosses?

      • Ideally there should be an equal partnership between DWP, doctors and the claimant, but as that will never happen DWP should take the word of the doctor and actually read any supporting evidence they have instead of using it to mop up bullshit

    • It’s this side of things the government have no desire to see or know about, it’s a way of using ignorance to justify one’s policies without having to face the consequences of what they have done. Many should be scrapped due to the fact they have failed and create more problems and cost too much money which they seem to have forgotten was the main reason for them taking an axe to welfare in the first place, or so they would have I believe.

      It has nothing to do with skivers or the reality there are no jobs out there so they create the illusion that jobs exist in order to justify the treatment of the unemployed which compromises peoples dignity. That is a real neat way to encourage people back to work, I suspect it’s driving people away from employment and away from paying tax whilst this coalition is in power.

      People need to eat, people need a roof over their heads, people will do what they have to do in order to make that a reality. When you start treating people like animals they will start behaving like animals, and this coalition has certainly been doing that and I’m sure many out there are amazed that in the 21st century living in a so-called democratic country we are witnessing unexceptional men and women with exceptional educations creating the rules as they go along… it’s extremely cynical of them.

      As we type messages here there are people suffering, quite often alone and isolated with their problems never knowing where to go for help.. so they go to CAB and such places, the coalition know these organisations are taking up the slack and had their funding slashed and they even know in a nasty way many will go to the wall as they have or cut their regional coverage and then people not inside it will again miss out, these places are stretched to breaking point and have been for quite some time.

      Fact is if you are mentally or physically ill or unemployed that is Fact! it’s a reality and no policies can force somebody to do what they are unable to do just as you would not push someone into a river if they could not swim then say if they had learnt to swim they would not have drowned, it’s rather like saying to the unemployed.. if you had a job you would not be treated so badly as you experience now as an unemployed person… it’s ridiculous.

      It’s all smoke and mirrors, contradictions, half-baked policies thought up by idiotic individuals trying to impress and gain favour. Others like IDS just trying to hold onto a thread of hope that his entire political career will be known and etched in acid, he tried the nice guy act and that failed, he tried party leadership, that failed, in the army he appears to have been at best a flunky to someone more senior and now he is trying Mr Nasty… it’s doomed to failure… all he cares about are the true blue voters.. the Dry’s in the party and hoping the propaganda machine does not lose a wheel on it’s overly used tour of discontent.

  33. “More than 60 diners who ate at a restaurant commonly thought to be the best in the world have been struck ill.

    Customers at Danish restaurant Noma, in Copenhagen, were apparently infected with norovirus during their £290-a-head meals.

    It is believed that the virus started when a restaurant employee came in to work while sick.”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2290288/60-diners-Noma-Copenhagen-struck-vomiting-bug-employee-cooked-food-ill.html

  34. For all the garbage written about people on benefits being ‘scroungers’, ‘skivers’ and ‘Lying Thieving Bastards’, there’s this report, well worth highlighting-

    ‘The government is deliberately misusing evidence and statistics to misrepresent the plight of the poor, a report says.
    The Methodist and United Reformed Churches, the Church of Scotland and the Baptist Union jointly published the The Lies We Tell Ourselves study.
    Researchers said evidence had been skewed to put the blame for poverty at the door of the poor themselves.’

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21625446

    It strikes me that this rubbish, put about by the gov and the media and repeated by those gullible enough to believe it, is much the same as the bilge written about asylum seekers and immigrants…

  35. Simple DWP strategy. Spend all the budget on schemes so there’s no money to spend on benefits. Then try to shift the blame back onto the claimants.

    Whatever nomenclature you wish to adopt, a GP is meant to make an informed decision, and they do not need to have their work suvbverted by underhanded tactics and pseudo-scientific claims and ambiguous circumstantial nonsense.

    I’d tell the DWP to leave GPs to practise medicine, and to stick to what they’re good at, but that would assume there was an activity they would capably handle.

    • something survived...

      i dunno, you’re being too hard on these DWP people. With psychiatric evaluation, followed by intensive training, it is possible that some of them could learn to screw up some paper and flick spit-balls..

  36. Employer friends of mine have also pointed out that Employer Liability Insurance may be a major problem. If the insurance company deems that the sick employee was actually too sick to work i.e. his doctor had advised rest but that advice was undermined by ATOS, then they may legitimately refuse to cover that employer, should there be an accident. Since GP’s are not workplace OTs or experts in Health & Safety, they cannot reliably be expected to correctly assess whether a person is safe to work, or weather the insurance company would cover them. For instance, sick employee has depression, meaning they are less alert than usual, and fails to take the usual precautions leading to an accident. Both the employee and the employer could end up in court

    • something survived...

      Exactly, I have wondered about this. And cases involving harm to third parties, not just employee/employer/service-user.
      Insurance does not cover individuals with pre-existing/undisclosed conditions. For example should you take a photo of your piles to your job interview? (No you probably shouldn’t, if only to avoid the demoralising feeling you would get when the job is offered to the haemorrhoids instead)

      In law all disabled people etc are vulnerable adults (kind of insulting…), so what if a worker working with such people is themselves disabled and therefore a vulnerable adult? And if they are forced to be there on workfare?

  37. Pingback: Work When You’re Sick Say New DWP Guidelines | Disability Issues | Scoop.it

  38. just noticed in the independant a story
    of martine white ,50, from yorkshire who
    is partially blind
    a thalidomide victim
    with a brain tumour
    deformed arms
    awaiting spinal surgery
    who atos have deemed capable
    of ‘ work-related activity ‘….
    she is fighting the atos decision
    to force her to attend interviews
    and put together a cv…..
    it is a sick and ugly state this society
    is in that things like this take place.
    good luck martine.
    ian duncan smith is a disgrace
    and does have blood on his hands.

  39. Look, obviously if you can only move your eyelids, you can work as a theoretical physicist and write books about black holes. After all, if Steven Hawking can be in full time employment, what excuse have the rest of us?

  40. It’s going to be end of mine day, but before ending I am reading this great article to increase my knowledge.

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  43. English Teacher

    “sun reader” isn’t that an oxymoron :-)

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