The latest news from the High Court workfare appeal is that Cait Reilly was forced to work unlawfully in a huge blow to Iain Duncan Smith’s welfare reforms. According to @shivmalik1 all workfare schemes could be unlawful except Mandatory Work Activity.
UPDATE: Latest statement from Public Interest Lawyers reveals that sanctioned claimants may be able to claim back benefits: http://www.publicinterestlawyers.co.uk/news_details.php?id=298
Visit consent.me.uk for the full ruling: http://consent.me.uk/2013/02/12/ruling/
The great charity workfare exodus means even this looks in doubt. The Children’s Society announced this week they would no longer take part in the Mandatory Work Activity scheme. This follows the decision of SENSE to pull out whilst the YMCA are believed to be considering their position.
They join Scope, British Heart Foundation, Cancer Research UK, Shelter, Oxfam, Age UK and Marie Curie, who have all made announcement rejecting forced unpaid work.
Sadly some charities are not so ethical. Whilst Marie Curie were one of the first charities to abandon workfare, the similar charity, Sue Ryder are unrepentant. This is despite the announcement that sick and disabled claimants can now be sent on workfare.
The Conservation Volunteers (TCV) have amended their statement to claim they will not force people on sickness or disability benefits to work unpaid. However the shocking truth is that many sick and disabled claimants are now on mainstream unemployment benefits due to the ruthless re-assessments. With no health checks or medical advice prior to starting workfare, it will possibly take a tragedy before TCV wake up to what they are involved in.
Others charities still using workfare include The Salvation Army, despite a string of misleading and contradictory statements intended to hide their use of forced work. The RSPCA, who are opposed to animals being forced to work in the Circus, have no such scruples when it comes to human beings and also happily take unpaid staff on workfare schemes.
The great workfare charity exodus will only lead to even more pressure on those remaining organisations still happy to exploit unemployed, sick and disabled claimants. Why not start now by telling them what you think: @RSPCA_official, @TCVtweets, @PDSA_HQ, @salvationarmyuk, @Sue_Ryder
And join the National Week of Action Against Workfare beginning on 18th March and let’s finish off what’s left of Iain Duncan Smith’s workfare obsession: http://www.boycottworkfare.org/?p=1996
Follow me on twitter @johnnyvoid
the void 
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what did that judge say to ms riley…”you are not sing contemporary thinking’
well bollocks to you judge as workfare aint gonna be contemporary thinking you stupid arse..
Workhouses aren’t contemporary thinking either, Mr judge…
Judges are about as contemporary (up to date thinking) as legalised wifebeating and wifeselling. Let’s bring back: ‘return all the poor people (not the rich) to their original parish’, ‘send little boys up chimneys then wonder why they get bollock cancer by age nine’, ‘whipping boys for the children of royalty’… Or how about bringing back ‘no Jew is allowed to live in this town’ laws? Or for a more recent feel, try the *lovely* (!) signs outside pubs that used to be quite common, also at accommodation. “No Jews, No Blacks, No Asians, No Irish, No Gypsies/Travellers, No Atheists, No Queers, No Catholics, No Foreigners..” (etc) Or that old unwritten law about not actually letting disabled people get married, either to eachother or to ablebodied people. In the UK we don’t yet have chain gangs, but they could be coming back in.
What other stuff should we bring back?
Public flogging/whipping/caning/birching. The stocks, pillory, rack, iron maiden. Public executions, if hanging is too modern and boring then there is always drawing and quartering, burning at the stake, or other things we have the potential to come up with.
Slavery, that’s fun. Everyone black/nonwhite is property of whites (‘white’ to be self-defined by ruling whites). Oh those laws we repealed banning the employment of Catholics in many places, and the rights of Catholics and Jews and atheists to go to university? Get rid of the status quo and bring in the traditional values. Erect statues in every city to the great British heroes:
Enoch Powell and Oswald Moseley (now to be saints), Nick Griffin (now to be a living god), the supreme being Adolf Hitler (he may as well have won the war, his beliefs are winning), and lesser heroes like Nigel Farage.
All failing schools will be nuked, then the poor will be sent to ground zero to live (die). Abolish lettuce, the Guardian, knitting, philosophy, anything else wet or commie. All channels to show nothing but Jeremy Clarkson on a 24 hour loop tape. Slaves will gradually be recycled and the owners will receive compensation. Recycling of slaves will take place in camps called Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, Sobibor, Majdanek, Treblinka (we’ll come up with better names later).
Traditional values – for People and their Wives!
(NB every Female Unit must now request permission from its owning Male Unit, to go anywhere or do anything)
Male Units are People, Female Units are Property.
The eating of dead pigs is compulsory.
Fast-track to deification for Ian Duncan Smith.
Having anything physically wrong with you will reclassify you as an Unperson and recycling of your carbon will commence immediately.
Therefore there is no longer any need for Hospitals. White British doctors to be retrained as executioners, if they refuse they will be recycled along with every other doctor.
More roads, everywhere, now. To be built by chain gangs of Slaves and Poor/Disabled awaiting recycling. Immigration is allowed if you are white. If we do not call you white, or white enough, you too can enter the country, but on entry you will be sent directly to be recycled. Thankyou for donating your carbon. The only non-recycle orders will be given to those who do not wish to be alive in our brave new world. These will be kept alive as long as possible while doing forced labour or being tortured. Also every foetus is sacred but only until it is born, at which point it will be categorised for class and colour, disabilities etc and accorded its status as a Person (Male), Female Unit, Slave, Recycling, etc.
(From ‘The wet dreams of Ian Duncan Smith (Mein Kampf 2)’, by Ian Duncan Smith…)
@something survived hey good to see you on here..you just woke up from lazing about all day behind closed curtains…lol !!!..you really should be doing some video mate ..i want to see those nasty vile fuckers..you deal with name and shame…
No, I was up all night jobseeking, then had a grand mal seizure on the way back out and missed college. Then made it, late, to my textiles group, then came back and went into town, then went here to look for jobs from UJM’s email. The only thing to cheer me up last night (there is no food and nothing to heat my room) was the news that the pope is going. (Not an anti-Catholic comment but an anti-Ratzinger comment)
My main sustenance: Yesterday ate only 3 9p reduced packets of sliced apple and grapes. Today ate one small biscuit. Pretty ravenous now.
Don’t have video facilities, and anyway I’m enough of an easy target already: I can go a few minutes before someone yells abuse, at least once a day (unless I’m home all day). And that’s strangers who have absolutely no idea who I am or what I believe. Our city is at the moment getting more racist, kids shout ‘paki’ at Asian people in front of their parents, and the parents never criticise and sometimes join in. I’ve wanted to say ‘you can’t say that’, but I prefer continuing to breathe. Been much more careful since I had my head kicked in. In a town half an hour by bus away there are swastikas on the wall of the bus station. I told the council but they didn’t do anything. The people who did it probably don’t even have grandparents that were alive in WW2, and have no idea about Hitler, except that Hitler is the only historical thing they know of or like, and didn’t like Jews and foreigners. They might even think Hitler was British and lost the English Civil War (if they ever heard of that). They may well have heard of Nick Griffin, and have managed to learn how to spell BNP. Sorry, I live in a house with a genuine believer, who knows the history and who admires Breivik. Every time my foreign housemates leave the room he restarts his tirades against their nationality of people. He likes the BNP except to him they are too weak. It gets worse, but that’s a separate story! I don’t know but he does seem to model himself a bit on Powell and Moseley, in some ways at least. Years and years ago BNP threw me across the road and into a parked car, it got badly dented but then the police denied the
whole thing. They said there were no BNP in my city. I said there were plenty. (As it turned out, at the time there were a lot of BNP in the police)
@somethong survived. If could find a minder for you i would so we could see these monsters you tell us about.
Trouble is he has stuff on me so can use it against me if he wants. I don’t think he’d mind too much being exposed as a Nazi.
Here is todays thought: for too long we have thought of ourseleves as subservient as the experts the bankers the royalty the politicians have or know the answers so we let them get on with it. Bollocks to that. We have seen they are either slimy opportunists or incompetent. They are not to trusted. We dont need them . Any time you are in London look ay number ten or the palace of Westminster and say .”you are irrelevant’
using not sing,,ffs…
Let’s treat George Iain Duncan Smith like the bitch he desires to be, and herald his immediate departure from Politics. He can, however, continue to live rent free within Betsys home.
NEXT STOP HAS TO BE ATOS WCA ASSESSMENTS..THEY SHOULD BE DEEEMED ILLEGAL..
No let’s mandate him to build roads or dig ditches in February in his underpants and barefoot. Still love Workfare now? One cup of gruel twice a week. Chains on his legs too.
@ss as long as someone videos it and makes it go viral
Like series 1 of Black Mirror, except I felt so sorry for the poor pig. It must have felt violated (being raped by the PM).
The pig wasnt Tied UP you know?
It got a full bucket of swill unlike the workfare unpaid.
They didnt threaten it with no supper for three months if it
walked away from being used and abused. . It had a choice.
…except MWA.
So not illegal then as the government/work programme will just mandate people that way.
surely by its definition ie mandatory’ sauggest that its FORCED FREE LABOUR…therefore even more illegal..
I don’t think they’ve actually found anything illegal. It seems that the appeal was more about the particulars of this case and how the pair were handled re the jobcentre mandating them. I don’t think a damn thing has changed.
@ghost whistler but surely a small door has been opened on all this…??
Let’s hope so! We can’t let up an inch with these greedy tory cunts.
@ghost whistler..every journey starts with the first step..
What they found illegal was that the people affected had not been properly informed about the programmes and sanctions regime, not that the programmes and sanctions regime was unlawful or illegal. All that the DWP has to do to restart mandatory workfare is to touch up the poorly drafted regulations and then to give everybody a properly informative letter in respect to compulsory attendance and what will happen to them if they don’t comply. Workfare hasn’t gone away, it’s just being given a retread is all.
@Larry i jst posted the ESE regulations ..i dont know if they are the right ones though…its all i can find if not i will dig further but it does havew stuff about work for your benefit stuf in it..
We can never stop, the moment we give up then it will return we need to be vigilant
the whole lot needs to shot in the arse..workfare , atos assessments..pip assessmenets social fund assessments..
Yes. This is great news, but we must remain vigilant. The fascists will now redouble their efforts to enslave us. They will study in depth where they failed this time and will then adapt and improve their tactics for their next assault on our rights. They will never ever give up on trying to subjugate us.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall in IDS’s office right now…
if i was a fly i would get all my mates to shit on his head
He’s probably doing one of two things either incandescent with rage or in the throes of a complete breakdown, tee-hee!
@kittycat yeah i hope he has a fit…and is carried away in a basket.
Personally, I hope the evil cunt dies. Even by Tory standards, the man is an unthinking, brain-dead, prejudiced, moronic, cruel, vindictive, utterly useless, fucked-in-the-head arsehole.
@steven your just being nice about him now..
Harsh but fair. 🙂
Looking through my compound eyes I would calmly assess the situation, fly over to the nearest sources of contamination (excrement, toxic waste, viruses, etc) and go play in it (I can survive a nuclear war you know). Then fly back and covertly infect all his food. Watch him die of whatever I managed to give him.
I just said that to the wife, i bet the bald bastard blew a gasket!
He is still upset the p.m. wouldnt lend him the pig.
They’ve just taken one bullet out of the revolver. They still have five shots left.
I thought Cait Rileys case was about her being forced to do menial tasks she was over qualified to do, not to put an end to workfare, how did this judgement come about despite mwa of course, it is a partial victory for all,but I guess it’s not over till it’s all over.
The judges also didn’t find in breach of human rights either.
I think people are celebrating far too quickly. Pressure must be maintained
I am fucking incandescent with rage! I will have none of it! Be warned Cait fucking Reilly and Jamieson fucking Wilson I will personally see to it that you are hauled into the Jobcentre EVERY FUCKING DAY!!
It ain’t gonna happen… 🙂
Was it U (IDS) that we filmed in an amorous encounter with a male animal known as a donkey? Look for it on YouTube, Enjoy.
I was in the mcJC+ enjoyin free heat for 90 mins and swiping Loots for toilet role before I purged on the dotted line today, and it was packed like sardines. The way to sort that threat is go in every day anyway! FUCK ‘IM !
He is SO OUT of TOUCH he doesnt even realise how PATHETIC he sounds!
Advisor appointments are down to ten mins and they still barely cope.
The doormen would have to refuse anybody WHO DOESNT HAVE AN APPOINTMENT ! !
I’M GAME !
COME AND HAVE A GO IF YOU THINK YOUR HARD ENOUGH, YOU EX OFFICER SCHOOL PRICK !
THE JC STAFF WOULD STRIKE OR JACK.
In the words of DentArthur Dent,
“WE WILL SEE WHO RUSTS FIRST !”
This is good news indeed, but why doesn’t this ruling also apply to Mandatory Work Activity?
“The Minister for Employment (Mark Hoban MP): The Court of Appeal has today
ruled that the Government’s back-to-work schemes do not breach Article 4 of the
European Convention on Human Rights.
Whilst the judgment supports the principle and policy of our employment schemes,
and acknowledges the care and resources we have dedicated to implementing them,
the Court of Appeal has ruled that the Jobseeker’s Allowance (Employment, Skills
and Enterprise) Regulations 2011 (“the ESE Regulations”) do not describe the
employment schemes to which they apply, as is required by the primary legislation.
The Court of Appeal has therefore held the ESE Regulations to be ultra vires and
quashed them.
We are seeking permission to appeal against the Court of Appeal’s judgment and, if
permission is granted, we will take our case to the Supreme Court. As we are
currently seeking permission to appeal, claimants who have already served a sanction
will not be able to appeal on the basis of the Court’s decision until our appeal is heard.
We are considering a range of options to ensure we do not have to repay these
sanctions.
Today we intend to lay new regulations which will come into force immediately and
enable us to continue to refer Jobseekers Allowance claimants to our employment
schemes and to provide the best chance for people to find employment”
— this means the “work programme” is fucked until claimants are re-referred under the new regulations. The ESE “regulations” used to apply sanctions for non-attendance, not carrying out an activity are hereby “quashed” 🙂
@WP IS FUCKED…its like a fucking obsession withe them…WE AHVE TGHE RIGHT TO KILL PEOPLE AND IF ANYONE CHALLNEGES THAT WE WILL APPEAL…it was like that speech he did in HOC about ATOS saying it wasnt right to DEMONISE ATOS..(obviously concerned about any future donations and their share price)
“When you take part in the Work Programme, you are taking part in the Employment, Skills and Enterprise Scheme which is established in the law [ lol 🙂 ]by The Jobseeker’s Allowance (Employment, Skills and Enterprise Scheme) Regulations 2011.”
[The above paragraph was hastily added to provider threatograms to validate referral to the Work Programme and to validate and underpin the brutal sanctions regime for “non compliance”]
Now that these “regulations” have gone up in smoke, been “quashed” the ability for provider cunts to impose sanctions for “failing to attend” and not carrying out an “activity” have also gone up in smoke. Simply put, until the jobcentre gets round to re-referral to the Work Programme under the new regulations Work Programme victims can tell their provider to take a flying fuck and there ain’t jack shit they can do about it 🙂 ha, fucking, ha 🙂
Does that mean I no longer have to attend the Work Programme until such a time when the rules are redefined and I am re-referred?
The ESE “regulations” were pulled out of a hat to “legitimise” the Work Programme and the attendant sanction regime. Without those “regulations” in place, the Work Programme has no legal underpinning. It’s a tough one to call, but it is possible, very possible that wp victims can escape further attendance at the work programme until such time as re-referral and further “mandation” by the jobcentre. Of course the work programme providers and the jobcentre will just play along as if nothing has happened, as is to be expected.
What would happen to all the wp staff though? 🙂
They will just come up with something else!, the Nazification of our nation will continue one way or another, unimpeded by court rulings, those that rule will make it so!!!.
“When you take part in the Arbeits Programme, you are taking part in the Beschäftigung, Qualifikation und Enterprise Scheme which is established in the law by The Beihilfe für Arbeitsuchende (Beschäftigung, Qualifikation und Enterprise Scheme Regulations 2013.”
@reich labour service will this be called KRAUTsourcing?
The Nazis are still here, they just switched nationality.
Most likely, but we should fight them every step of the way anyway and try to make it as difficult as possible for them to impose their fascist utopia on us. “Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose”. Frederick Douglass
Stick that ruling up your arse Iain Duncan Smith (second rate polititian) – Yippee kai eye!
Sadly I feel those who say “They will just come up with something else” are right in the longer term . So we need to use the small amount of time left to change the mind of the organisation that are still willing to take slave labour. Make it such a bitter taste they won’t want anything to do with it when the “regs writers “ find a way to write this as so make it once more “Lawful” to continue one way or another, they learn new tricks with every court ruling, those “that think they rule” will make it so. remember that we need to keep truth in the room and it will take care of itself. Wite to the charities I urge you. Find the time! Lets us divide and concur we are many, they are few,make it charities still using workfare need to be shown we do not support them in this act. Hit them where it hurts right in the bank accounts, Boycott them not matter how much you want “that what ever in the window” Go find it in one of the ones who have left the “Sham” Then pick one a week and we all write to them! Pay a bit extra for signed for delivery! Then the next week , we peacefully picket them . Not just one shop or venue but as many as we can on one day. Do not confront them in the shops or on the streets they too are being used! We just need to make it unpalatable to the majority of them
There is no longer term in politics.
Ten yrs is usually the lot. Every small victory eats away at theyre
‘time left’ . Look at Gordon Brown. Finished. All washed up.
A ‘HAS Bin’,forgotten in the annals as another footnote p.m.
His partner in Traitorism is earning ten mill a yr in the sun.
If IDS fails, which he will (He underestimates the resolve of those he tries to manipulate) he fails big and will have to slope off to the lords
as I dont think europe will have him. He cant live on an M.P.’s salary again. This will be ironic, as in the lords, members have to turn up to get
£300 a day expenses. If they dont turn up, they dont get paid.
PMQ’s should be interesting tommorrow – Ed Milliband has just been handed a nuclear missle to fire at David Cameron and especially IDS. boooooooom!
True, but will he fire it though? He is often presented with many opportunities to attack this regime – open goals, but he doesn’t take them. Is it because he agrees with what they are doing, and intends to do the same things himself as soon as he gets the chance?
Yes, a thousand times yes, were the fuck are labour? the answer is in the last sentence above. It was blue Labour who brought in workfare and WCA Remember? You can’t get a fag paper between the political parties , they are all in the pockets of lobbyists and big business.
Correct…
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6382&st=0
This is unfortunately true. We must always remember it was the morons of so-called ‘New Labour’ that brought in the expensive and unworkable farce of the New Deal so it was they who laid the groundwork for the idiocy that is the Work Programme.
SOMEBODY NOTICED !!
There is a generalised superior being of some sort after all.
Great ruiling by the court. Multi million pound companies shouldn’t be able to get a free skivy to the work for free.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9864568/Unemployed-cannot-be-forced-to-work-in-Poundland.html
Hilarious comments by thick over-50 tory nazi/cunts who should be put out of their misery through euthanasia.
@ ANTILIBERTARIAN…
DO YOU MEAN THIS ONE??
“#
why o why is this younger generation so expectant. BENIFIT does not equal entitlement. It was a concept to help those who genuinely need help, not work shy lazy youngsters who have no idea what life is really like. I DEMAND MY BENIFIT BUT I DO NOT WANT TO DO ANYTHING FOR IT. get them out doing things to help all of us, clean the streets, clean the schools, help the elderly, anything that gets them out of bed and on their feet.
i work full time, long hours, pay a lot of tax and NI, which i hope is put to good use. ok lets blame immigrants, lets blame politicians, lets blame anyone but the guilty.
Your L A Z Y, WANT SOMETHING FOR NOTHING AND SELF CENTERED.
Question for you.
Why should i or any other Tax payer, provide you with an income for doing nothing or demanding you only do what you want.
it is inbred in our own people that they get looked after and do not have to contribute, sick of the lot of you benifit scrounging, whinging waste of oxygen idiots.
To those of you that genuinely need benefits good luck to you”
‘TO THOSE WHO GENUINELY NEED IT…”
so who are they then? the people who are close to death? made redundant after 50 years..(should have taken out private employmnet insurance) …so if you are a qualified surgeon ..then that dont matter you should be stacking shelves you pleb…mind you i wouldnt do it…god no….
CUNT UTTER..
Badger Slaughter,Benefit Card,Murdering Grannies,Bomb-Building Islamist Terrorists in Bradford on £29000,Bedroom Tax,People with Disabilities paying Council Tax Orwelliain Duncan Smith.
If I’m reading this right anyone who has been placed on one of these work for your benefit schemes with a firm, can now legally walk away from it and can’t be sanctioned – also the Jobseeker’s Allowance (Employment, Skills
and Enterprise) Regulations 2011 were on the WP 05 letter the Jobcentre used to refer eveyone to the Work Programme.
Does this now mean that we no longer have to attend the Work Progamme with a Private Provider and now just sign on as usual at the Jobcentre? – can anyone clarify this please?
I want to know this as well, can anyone help?
I’m meant to attend WP in 2 days, 3 days after signing on. So can I go but look at porn instead? Or do something actually worthwhile on the internet like research? (I could research jobs I suppose…) That is if the WP computers work at all. Or catch up on all the sleep I’m not getting due to having spent my time jobseeking pointlessly?
Or since there are no jobs they could stick us in a room and get us to imagine jobs.
@SOMETHING SURVIVED OR YOU COULD glue the picture of this cunt in your toliet bow and piss on it..
Matthew Oakley is Head of Economics & Social Policy. His team focuses on welfare reform, growth and the UK economy, public sector reform and financial policy. His recent publications include an assessment of the public sector pay premium across the wage distribution; reports outlining the next steps for tackling unemployment and benefit dependency; and a report outlining areas where Government must focus to boost growth in the long-term.
His current work includes: an assessment of the economic advantages of moving to a more localised system of pay bargaining in the public sector; analysis of the social foundations of benefit dependency; how to finance innovation and the growth of small firms; and how a new approach to tackling child poverty could lead to better outcomes and life chances.
Prior to joining Policy Exchange he was an Economic Advisor at the Treasury, where he worked on a number of tax and welfare issues for the previous eight years. He was closely involved in analysing the labour market impacts of and responses to the recession and in the Green and White Papers on Universal Credit. Before this, his other roles at the Treasury included working on property tax strategy, microeconomic analysis of the labour market and on medium-term tax strategy.
He has an MSc in Economics from University College London, where he specialised in labour economics and econometrics.
Sounds like ideal date material. Fraid I’d be too grossed-out to piss.
Why not contact Public Interest Lawyers who represented Cait Reilly, they should know
http://www.publicinterestlawyers.co.uk/
@ECAP the govt claimed tht they didn’t have a work for benefits scheme which is a lie as i came across a govt document that is headed work for benefits scheme of which I have posted here.
Amazes me how thick this tory slag is.
can you leave out the misogynist shit please
ian duncanshit is a slag/bitch too. As in ‘policing according to Gene Hunt’, ‘you slags’ is a term used to address any group of males whether colleagues or criminals. Slag is the ingredients of a slagheap, a thing often noted for collapsing. (aka Parliament)
Possibly related to ‘slacker’, ‘slaggard’, ‘slackbladder’, meaning ‘coward’ and ‘lazy contemptible person’.
Not to be confused with SLUGS, which by comparison are beautiful, intelligent and useful organisms.
How about if it is okay to call men slag or bitch and to call women bastard or dickhead. If the word is appropriate in the context.
Did Nara Hodge write this in her lunchbreak, or was it while she was supposed to be working? Loser. (gender neutral term) If she works in a jobcentre, is that the attitude of her colleagues?
Nara Hodge can kiss my Communist arse.
@landless peasant this comment scores for its crass stupidity..
“Why doesn’t Miss Reilly piss off back to Ireland if she doesn’t like the way we roll in England”
maybe she doesnt live in ireland…you dum fuq..
let me guess all of them are ‘paddies and thick micks ‘ to you..
r swipe..
WTF? I never said anything of the sort!
@landless peasant IT WAS A QUOTE FROM COMMENTS SECTION IN TORYGRAPH….jesus this layout sucks..
OH sorry mate, got my wires crossed!
@LANDLESS PEASANT NOW WORRIES SHIT HAPPENS…BY THE WAY I JUST POSTED THE ESE REGULATIONS DOCUMENT..HAVE FUN…
‘The way we roll’ being an Americanism, the Telegraph reader who made this comment has already been relocated to the nearest American town matching the name of their British one, and has been enrolled into the army and deployed to Afghanistan…
(Fish and chips are banned as the fish is probably from New Zealand and potatoes aren’t British)
The first people in Britain lived in caves and wore skins. Anyone else is a DIRTY THIEVING FOREIGNER! “No sorry we need documentary proof that your ancestors never crossed the land bridge into prehistoric (ie no documents existed) Britain, and you have been living with the same family you breed with, and had nothing but mammoth to eat for tens of thousands of years.”
Everything we have is mostly non-British. Even the first Brits weren’t ‘British’ (Picts, Celts). And THEY had to leave during the worst of the ice age.
In fact the ancestors of ‘the Irish’ were in mainland Britain first, with other Celts, long before the ancestors of the ‘English’ even existed. Irish monks made it to Iceland and lived there a while long before the Vikings.
Welsh people may have reached North America, after the Vikings but ages before Columbus. Pacific Islanders possibly reached South America.
English people whose ancestors were in England long enough, are probably at least partly Celtic/Irish anyway. And partly Roman (an army that included black and Asian soldiers). All of the main groups in Europe are descended from people of northern India. Their ancestors are from Africa. Celts should note that bagpipes (Caucasus region) and kilts (Turkey and Middle East), haggis, etc are all imports. Ultimately all of us are descended from a woman, black and African, who was one of a group of people that walked from Africa into the Middle East. Traits like skin colour changed but only because in temperate zones there was less need for protection from the sun. That is the only reason people further north became paler. Nothing to do with a ‘better’ race, we are all exactly the same race. For genetic health we are advised to reproduce with someone with very different ethnic/national origins to us. The OPPOSITE of what Hitler, Mussolini etc. believed. Oh and the red hair trait, commoner in Celtic people, is the same trait found in the red-haired and copper-skinned Aryan (=ASIAN!) people of northern India, Iran etc. Even the blond Nordic peoples have some genetic background of non-IndoEuropean Siberian Turkic nomadic peoples. If you have noticed any red hair among Native Australians, that’s because they have carried the same trait too.
Apparently a mongrel is healthier (genetically) than a ‘pure’ breed.
Humans are animals (primates) so there is no special human-only rule
giving us different patterns of inheritance from other animals.
The person who said Reilly should go back to Ireland: should test their own DNA. If British and white, they are probably at least a bit Irish. Should they then deport themselves? In bits?
Many Irish people have never been to Ireland (in fact MOST Irish-origin people have not).
If you wanted to deport Reilly then you should have deported George Bernard Shaw, Yeats, Oscar Wilde, and many more.
So just to clarify:
Species: Group of animals, able to interbreed. (eg Humans)
Race: Sporting event in which athletes who run fastest and come first, are declared the winners.
Oak Tree: Organism sharing 66% of its DNA with Humans.
@SOMETHING SURVIVED actuallu cait reilly is from birmingham…that makes that commenter even more of a ignorant twat
That’s what I thought. I was talking of the diaspora in the USA but in many other countries too. And space if you like Star Trek.
Perhaps Nara ought to be forced to do 30 hours labour for £56.25 a week and see how she likes it.
@larry probbly get someone in to do it for them..after all whats £56 to them they spend that more than that on make up..
Her words miss the point. Does £land have work, or not?
Seems simple to me.
Shelf stackers needed. Empty shelves.
Full tills. Opportunity to be had.
Many young adults still at home think
‘Hang on a bloody mo..half a shift O/Time, I could pull in £200!
I could give mum a nifty, save a ton a week AND have beer money
for the week end! But alas. Tis not so.
The guv. will FORCE them to do 30 odd hours a week for nothing
on top of the dole instead.
Deductions on wages wont go to the treasury.
Employers N.I. contributions wont be made. Mum wont get £50
board. The beenz will still be asda’s. The car fund will stay a dream.
FUCKING TILLS WILL STILL BE EMPTIED THO;
WHERES IT ALL GOIN ?????
But given the choice would you prefer to work (unpaid) in Poundland or would you prefer to work (unpaid) doing something of “community benefit” such as picking up dog-shit alongside convicted criminals serving a sentence for “community payback”. You will see comments a lot along the lines of: “I am OK with the unemployed working for the benefit of the community but not for a profit-making business like Poundland”. What they really mean is they want to see you being humiliated and picking up dog-shit IS humiliating. Given the choice I would prefer to be doing something half-decent within a (profit-making) business environment (preferably not shelf-stacking) than been laughed at whilst shovelling dog-shit. Be careful you don’t go cutting your own throat. Working in Poundland (paid) for a decent wage is not the option 🙂
Would I rather stand on the till at H and fucking B (profit making business) or would I rather go picking up dog shit (“community benefit” council chain-gang)? Tough one to call… 🙂
There is a young a lad round here (just out of uni with a law degree) who has been sent out to pick up leaves, litter and dog turds for nowt under some mandatory scheme or whatever for the bloody Nazi housing association. It is heart-breaking to watch, the poor lad is suicidal, but I suppose this would come under of “community benefit”. He would be a damned site better off in Poundland, at least he would have someone to talk to! I sometimes wonder what is going on here. Are vested interests like councils and housing associations trying to push out big business so that they can mop up the free labour? We need to be saying NO to work-for-nowt FULL STOP. Not saying it is OK so long as it is for “community benefit” because “community benefit” can be a darn site worse than working for nowt for “big business”. All “community benefit” with it’s connotations of “community payback” really means is PUNISHMENT and HUMILIATION. Maybe manning the till in bloody H&B isn’t humiliating enough. Of course it doesn’t necessarily have to have to be, but let’s be honest when folk are talking about “community benefit” what they really mean is they want to laugh at the unemployed in their fluorescent bibs picking up dog-shit in their local park. I really don’t think anyone is genuinely interested in HELPING the unemployed, they only want to see them PUNISHED and HUMILIATED! What a disgusting, sick pathetic excuse of a country we live in!
https://twitter.com/onedanceleft2/status/301292865936572418
Thick tory loon attacks Laurie Penny for reporting truth.
@antilibertarian..what do you expect…?
Bear defecates in forested area!
“Ed Milliband has just been handed a nuclear missile to fire at David Cameron and especially IDS.”
Ed Milliband has been given plenty of ammunition in the past and he manages to fuck it up every. single. time.
12 points ahead? If Labour would drop the neoliberal (we’ll be like the Tories – only a smidge not quite so bad) shit they’d have a 20 to 30% points lead.
@antilibertarian Idiot cant even spell BENEFIT..twat..
If you read some JCP and WP paperwork issued to jobseekers, often these documents are full of spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and the use of incorrect words for the intended meaning. They lack appropriate punctuation, and in some cases would not accumulate enough marks to be awarded an F grade in GCSE English. (Or a pass in the English language and citizenship tests to gain the right to UK residence/citizenship.) Often also the name of the jobseeker is mis-spelled throughout. (Which ought – technically – to render them legally non-binding and unenforceable). Other details, such as address, date of birth, phone number, housing, NI number, can also be wrong.
https://twitter.com/LeeACollins/status/301311553997778944
Thick tory lunatic is bonkers – thinks workfare leads to full employment
Thick inbred.
It’s official, Lee Collins is bonkers….
@landless peasant Lee Collins always talks shit..
Who is Lee Colins?
Fuck knows
@Larry a mouthy no nothing twat who always show up on twatter whith his ignorant bile..
Well at least it’s not Alan Carr’s mate Justin Lee Collins!
@Larry i dont know who that is i dont watch telly..i stopped when i noticed it was watching me…..
I was a JLC fan (Manboobs manboobs mammaries for men….) until the stuff about him being a wife beater???
@something surviced i had to go to the doctor as i was suffering from scan lines syndrome…rrewinding was such a drag….
I think our education (or should that be edukashun?) system needs a massive overhaul! Really, what is so difficult to understand about the fact that unemployment is mostly caused by dire economic factors beyond the control of individual unemployed people? Like the fact that Britain’s economy is totally crap and has far fewer job vacancies than the numbers of current job seekers? ie we suffer NOT from a mass epidemic of ‘lazyness’ but from a clear case of there not being sufficient economic demand for labour!
Also apparently posted during his lunch break.
We don’t get a lunch break. Or lunch. Or breakfast. Or a break…
Should a relocation to France be on the cards for Mr Collins? Their welfare system is even tougher, and more racist, than ours. If France has too many black people for his liking, might we suggest a relocation to the moon, where there are no black people at all? There is no oxygen or food either, but he should accept that those are luxuries. If he gets lonely, he can take Nick Griffin along with him.
What Next?
Tessa Gregory, solicitor, Public Interest Lawyers states:
“Today’s judgment sends Iain Duncan Smith back to the drawing board to make fresh Regulations which are fair and comply with the Court’s ruling. Until that time nobody can be lawfully forced to participate in schemes affected such as the Work Programme and the Community Action Programme. All of those who have been stripped of their benefits have a right to claim the money back that has been unlawfully taken away from them from the DWP.
The case has revealed that the Department of Work and Pensions was going behind Parliament’s back and failing to obtain Parliamentary approval for the various mandatory work schemes that it was introducing. It also reveals a lack of transparency and fairness in the implementation of these schemes. The Claimants had no information about what could be required of them under the back to work schemes. The Court of Appeal has affirmed the basic constitutional principle that everyone has a right to know and understand why sanctions are being the threatened and imposed against them”
In other words, they fully intend to wriggle out of it (like Teflon Tony) and to change the law till they get what they want. And they don’t plan on paying people back-pay or compensation for sanctions.
Work advisers ‘pushing jobless into self-employment’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21260331
“The body which represents providers said there is “no incentive” to push people into unsuitable work.”
“It is only right that work programme advisers help jobseekers explore all possible avenues for work and for some self-employment is a really good option,” said the Employment Related Services Association’s chief executive Kirsty McHugh said.
AH BUT THERE IS INCENTIVE TO PUSH PEOPLE INTO UNSUITABLE WORK..ITS CALLED ‘PAYMENT BY RESULTS.’..
Results= More dead peasants
(‘Now that’s what I call a result’ – Field-Marshal Haig)
@something survived actually i would really like to campaign to get the benefit money returned to the claimants…anyone with me on this??
Would it work? Every time I had my benefits restored after being suspended/stopped/cut, which is very many times, I never got any back-pay. If I tried to ask why not, they threatened to stop it again.
Now they have a ‘three strikes and you’re out’ policy. The court case doesn’t talk of scrapping that. Turn up 30 seconds late and lose all dole, on a ‘third offence’ (sic), for 3 years.
What happens if you survive with no money for 3 years but then go back on the dole? (The sanctions rules say you should still sign on during the sanction….!) Is there a restart from zero? Or is the next sanction another 3 years? Our JCP says there is the option available to them after a 3 year sanction, to impose a LIFE ban. Can they do that? Or are they talking out of their arse? If you are sanctioned, penniless, forced to sign on – can you also be sent on work programme and workfare? Even though you’re getting no money?
Hardship loan payments are discretionary, not guaranteed. How are you meant to live? Or to live legally? Or they mean you to break the law to survive, so they can say we are criminals. Workfare is a crime. I’ve been told my dole may not come on Thursday, the day of the WP, as my sanction doubt might have actually gone somewhere this time. (The one I got yesterday for DOING TOO MUCH JOBSEEKING ACTIVITY).
If they really ARE in a union (PCS), are they not aware of the concept of working to rule? Actually I was trying to keep up with the requirements of JCP and WP to look for work. And to make sure I don’t get sanctioned for writing down not enough evidence. On Monday I stayed till the computer shut down. The need of toilets in JCP is more important all the time.
@something survived already the daily heil tried to pre empty this by claimibg that it will cost the tax payer kazillions to repay claimants thus making them.seem more of a scrounger. ovelookinf the obvious that billions have already been pissed away on the failed poverty pimps with their failed payment by results scheme. Of which in all honesty its they who should return monies wasted. If we are customers then we should have our money back.
TO JOHHNY VOID AND ALL..
ESE SCHEME JOBSEEKING AMENDMENT AND WORK FOR YOUR BENEFIT PILOT SCHEME REVOCATION
Click to access m-06-12.pdf
https://twitter.com/citygirlnomore/status/301283315841916928
So i’m not allowed to call thick fascist tory cunts like this slags?
Not a s….g just an ignorant bigoted brain dead…overpaid…..twat..
Though she may well be a “thick fascist tory cunt”, any inference of sexual promiscuity is irrelevant and unwarranted.
https://twitter.com/SimonT_Space/status/301317974642552833
Then there’s people like this.
@antilibertarian some are just wind up merchants ..twatter trolls… …
She’s on the wrong website, she should read the Sun. Besides, JSA people (longterm) are often disabled or have longterm health conditions. A lot of EXISTING claimants are disabled on JSA and never got given any disability benefits in the first place. Also kicking a disabled person off ESA onto JSA does not cure them of their disability. This woman had a job in a museum and when forced out, it was shortstaffed. It could have closed down as a result. That applies to other people, kicked out of their VOLUNTARY volunteering, onto workfare or ‘placement’ or McJobs or simply nothing. The companies are also required NOT to give the person a paid job at the end of it, so they just kick them back onto the dole. When will people stop worshipping Profit as the ultimate goal of everything?
I think they want all jobs done incompetently by unpaid forced staff who don’t want to do them, hate their work, and are no good at it. The only people allowed to do a job they like, will be rich tories.
Up yours Reichsminister Fur Arbeit, I.D.S, you mass-murdering Tory cunt! And I hope that each and every one of the bleating Tory-voting bastards currently foaming at the mouth over this verdict get so incandescent with rage and wound-up that they have a stroke.
Wait no, they’d end up in an NHS hospital & would have to mix with us great unwashed plebs & that would never do!
They all have private healthcare, private hospital rooms etc. (well the government) and the poorer tories DO end up in NHS hospitals. Both groups feel entitled to slap/pinch nurses’ bums, come onto them, or make racist comments on the ethnic origin of staff and other patients.
According to my mum (remembered from a Latin lesson she gave me maybe 20 years ago!), the word ‘plebs’ is singular (collective though), so the guy that shouted it (‘you pleb’) at ?the cops? was obviously someone who had failed his Latin and was not quite Eton material, sub Boris Johnson….? I’ll go and look it up.
15 seconds later: OMG’s! My mum is right!
From Wikipedia: “In Latin, the word ‘plebs’ is a singular collective noun, and its genitive is ‘plebis’. Multiple ‘plebs’ or ‘plebes.’ ”
According to the government: I should be living in a bin and putting heroin in my arm.
I am going to sign-on this afternoon, so will ask them to clarify if I am legally required to continue attending the Work Programme.
@landless peasant yeah you do that repart back and tell us what they say..probbly bollox..
Well that was as clear as mud! Just got back from the Jobcentre, I asked the signing lacky if she could clarify for me as to whether I am still required to attend the Work Programme in light of the new ruling by an High Court Judge that has quashed the Employment, Skills & Enterprise Regulations 2011, under which I was referred and mandated to attend the Work Programme. She didn’t have a clue what I was talking about. The lacky on the next desk chipped in his two-penneth and said “oh the rules have been re-written”. I asked when they had been re-written, and asked to see them in writing. He told me to write to the Jobcentre manager, but wouldn’t give me the Manager’s address. Then the Jobcentre Floor Manager came across to see what was to do, and I repeated it all over again. He then started to explain that the Court ruling applied to a different thing and was nothing to do with the Work Programme. When I interrupted and repeated that I was mandated under Regulations that have now been quashed, he asked if I didn’t want to attend the Work Programme. I replied that was not the point and that I require legal clarification on the matter, he told me to see a Solicitor. They then asked me to sign and got rid of me as soon as possible, and were decidedly touchy and unfriendly about the whole thing. I have also emailed my Work Coach at the Work Programme provider and asked for clarification on the matter, i.e. am I still mandated to attend, and if I don’t can my JSA still be sanctioned. I am awaiting her response. I think a letter to my MP is now in order…
@land less peasant yep no surpise its called slo mo panic anbd deffered bullshit..right now there are heated debates and phone calls eg ” we paid you lots of money for them contracts!!!!” you promised “yeah i know but we will come up with something and bribe someone…”
They could sanction you by saying you ‘refused’ or ‘said you did not want to attend’. They could sanction you for having the temerity to ask for the address of the guy to complain to. Or for complaining.
This is like the start of The Hitch-Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.
Arthur Dent’s house is to be demolished to make way for a bypass. He is told by Mr Prosser, in charge of the demolition, that he should have objected earlier because the plans were clearly on display. Arthur says he found out too late and did eventually get to see the plans. They were in the council offices in the basement with broken stairs and a light that didn’t work, at the bottom of a locked filing cabinet with a sign saying ‘Beware of the Leopard’.
As Arthur is in the pub, they start demolishing his house. Then the Vogons arrive to demolish the Earth to make way for a hyperspace bypass. They tell the world leaders that they posted the plans aeons ago at your local office, in Proxima Centauri.
It’s not 100% amusing because if you are Palestinian in 2013, the Israeli army can turn up with no warning and demolish your house, even if you are still inside.
We could do with a guy like the sidekick boy from Die Hard 4.0, or the boy called Rat (I think in The Core), hackers who could easily do the following:
Find out the personal details of the jobcentre staff and hack them. Also the government. Then you could wipe out all their money, screw up their credit rating, put porn on their computer, subscribe them to expensive stuff/stuff they disagree with, run up debts in their name, damage their rep by posting stuff in their name that will get them hated.
(All of this could happen to us when forced to be on Universal JobSplat.)
I have received confirmation from my Work Programme provider (Interserve) that it is NOT mandatory to attend WP at the time being until this mess is sorted out and the Government get their amended regulations passed:
“You are correct, you are not legally required to attend in the interim period, however I can advise you that ESE Regulations will be re-written at the soonest available opportunity.”
“I would suggest that anyone genuinely interested in securing employment would utilise every opportunity available to do this, and if this involved visiting a Work Coach/Employment Advisor they would take this opportunity.
Those who don’t, who choose to avoid being proactive ,as you rightly say will not have their JSA sanctioned but may struggle to secure sustainable employment.”
@landless peasant. Interserve yet another failure in the work program have recently bought up an elderly care home company. I posted the info on several blogs . The language was in stock marketese and had fuck all to do with care. Profits profits thats all that mattered.
There is more on the PbR with regard to mental health services here.
http://www.dh.gov.uk/health/2012/12/mental-health-pbr/
@Johnny Void and all. Social fund to support payment by results schemes eg work program
https://www.cafonline.org/charity-finance–fundraising/updates-and-insight/november-2012/payment-by-results.aspx
The European Social Fund that feeds the Work Program
http://ec.europa.eu/esf/main.jsp?catId=62&langId=en
David 1 Goliath 0 diary of a benefit scrounger
http://diaryofabenefitscrounger.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/david-1-goliath-0.html?m=1
Whos Lobbying? Capita
http://whoslobbying.com/uk/capita_group
CAPITA. WASP..wellbeing and surveillance portal.
https://www.capitahealthassessments.co.uk/
Who can raise a benefit sanction doubt A4e.
http://unemploymentmovement.com/forum/welfare-to-work/2828-who-can-specifically-raise-a-benefitsanction-doubt-a4e?eprivacy=1
Social Fund loans in bankruptcy..
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3821383
DWP information for advisers and intermediaries.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/adviser/updates/get-britain-working/
The jobcentre will just say it is “mandatory” like they always do 🙂
Mandy T:
Jobseeker’s Allowance (Employment, Skills and Enterprise) Regulations 2011 were on the WP 05 letter the Jobcentre gave to you when they referred you to the Work Programme.
These are the regulations the court has ruled illegal, so no one should have to attend the work programme anymore.
“Work for Your Benefit Pilot Scheme
10 The Jobseeker’s Allowance (Work for Your Benefit Pilot Scheme) Regulations 2010 are revoked from 1.3.121. No JSA claimants were ever selected to take part in this scheme.
1 The Jobseeker’s Allowance (Jobseeking and Work for Your Benefit) (Amendment and Revocation) Regulations 2012, reg 4
ANNOTATIONS
Please annotate the number of this memo (DMG Memo 6/12) against DMG paragraphs: 21338, 21723, 34781”
it starts off with stuff about ex prisoners or those just out of detention…
is this right??
That’s what it said (‘ Work for your Benefit’) on some stuff I got in 2010…. so they are lying, as I was not on a special pilot scheme, was not a prisoner, and was a regular JSA claimant. It smells bad!
@something survived I looked up stuff to do with ESE and found this govt document.
Iain Duncan Smith, Mark Hoban, Lord Fraud and Chris Grayling should all now be sacked as it’s now abundantly clear they have all exceeded the powers given to them and have gone behind paliaments back regarding the Work Programme, Community Action Programme, sanctions, referrals etc.
@obi wan kenobi do you ythink we might get our money back from the work program providers? hahaha..
from digital spy forum.
“Not a surprse.
Whenever there is an incentive to get payment by results, greed comes into play, and results are fiddled to increase profit.
I expect (behind closed doors) the Government think it’s a price worth paying.”
yep it certainly is..
All that will happen is that the Coalition will legislate to change the law to enable anybody to be forced into workfare. The best way to resist workfare is to hold the organisations that make use of unpaid labour to account, i.e., send emails and letters of protest to them, demonstrate outside their shops and offices, twitter about them and persuade customers to withdraw their custom from such businesses whenever and wherever possible.
Switched on the news & was overcome with emulsion – no, it wasn’t Jeremy Kyle (North Korea or horse burgers) – I just hadn’t somehow imagined that Cait Reilly would be proved right, somehow. Even if it’s not ‘the end’ of modern-day slavery, I think their name(s) will be remembered & she could go far (in museums) – she is only 24. Also, IDS’s minions will be on – unpaid – overtime to rethink/rewrite whatever they need to to calm him back down. Does this not set a precedent(?) & it’s a start.
Lawyers said:-
“Over the past two years the Government has unlawfully required tens of thousands of unemployed people to work without pay and unlawfully stripped thousands more of their subsistence benefits.
The case has revealed the chaos and confusion at the heart of the DWP who have set up a web of schemes and sanctions so complex that their own job centre advisers are failing to implement them correctly… etc. etc.”
“Today’s judgement sends Iain Duncan Smith back to the drawing board to make fresh Regulations which are fair and comply with the Court’s ruling. Until that time nobody can be lawfully forced to participate in schemes affected such as the Work Programme and the Community Action Programme. All of those who have been stripped of their benefits have a right to claim the money back that has been unlawfully taken away from them from the DWP. The case has revealed that the Department of Work and Pensions was going behind Parliament’s back and failing to obtain Parliamentary approval for the various mandatory work schemes that it was introducing.” (already known, &, more vaguely):
“The Court of Appeal has affirmed the basic constitutional principle that everyone has a right to know and understand why sanctions are being the threatened and imposed against them” – okay, &… ?
At least airtime given might result in some extra support. Thought that she was very clear; didn’t sound melodramatic and spoke generally about why it’s not ‘helpful’ and isn’t right – not just in her own case. There might be (? numbers) of people who will still be shocked/surprised to learn that just now, anyone can find themselves losing 2 weeks of their life in Poundland, or wherever else, just for the ‘crime’ of being unemployed (Cait has given me some hope today that I might not yet have to go to P****L*** – unless it’s for my own reasons/of my own free will – when there’s a sale on). Are ‘wrongly applied’ (isn’t that all?) sanctions monies now going to be repaid? It’s not easy to imagine this happening – no doubt an ‘admin charge’ would be levied in every case if so & deducted at source.
Overcome with “emulsion”!? What happened, shirleynott? You knock a point of paint over…. 🙂
I am still covered in (cheap) emulsion!
@shirleynott “The case has revealed that the Department of Work and Pensions was going behind Parliament’s back and failing to obtain Parliamentary approval for the various mandatory work schemes that it was introducing.” (already known, &, more vaguely)”
but i thought we lived in a DEE MOCK YOU RACY…accent on the word ‘mock’..
actually its a bit serious really…
@bobchewie Yes, I was very shocked when I read that too …
@shirleynott yep that has the word WRONG written all over it…just shows how theis coalition are almost criminal..
… but didn’t parliament notice? or isn’t that their job – someone has to point out there’s a contamination before they can test for it? I have no idea how these things work (but sounds like neither do they).
@shirleynott and barclays shed 3 thousand workjers and tesco and others are up to their arses in horsemeat..
If they say “I think that’s the right thing to do” – many more times I am thinking of bringing a case to draw attention to the unlawful & misleading use of this phrase!!!!
It means “We have to retain control at all costs and we mean business!!”
@shirleynott i am glad you posted that I think that’s the right thing to do…:)
SLAVERY LEGISLATION…. Time that this was used:-
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/slavery_servitude_and_forced_or_compulsory_labour/
Paul
Excellent – was this article used in the court case today?
Just surprised that no one else has even pointed this out before now. Takes seconds to find and its wording is quite clear, and it is on the CPS website of our govt….. No idea if it was used in court today, but it certainly looks clear to me.
“Cait Reilly, 24, from Birmingham, had argued that being made to work in the discount shop for nothing while she looked for a permanent job was illegal.”
so then she is NOT from ireland then is she ..so all that “she should sod off back to ireland” is bollocks then ..
She should stay in Birmingham, in the kitchen, wearing an apron (& be grateful!)
@shirlynott and on her knees scrubbing floors for a hapenny a month saying ”thankee guv…and NOT waste it on GIN either…honestly these oiks are so hard to tame sometimes..
It’s good to see comments on the Telegraph website in support of Cait Reilly and Jamieson Wilson. The best-rated post so far reads:
“Well done, Ms Reilly. Letting large corporations cash in on the misery of the unemployed is no answer to the unemployment problem. Ministers need to remember that their job is to serve the electorate, not help their rich mates running big businesses.”
The ignorant and objectionable comments do make depressing reading, but they aren’t going unchallenged – more and more people are realising that the basic economics of workfare don’t add up.
@amw lets not forget taxpayers subsidizing these companies too.
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at all..does any of this resemble ATOS assessments in that Cait Riley was already at the time in a volunteer capacity somewhere so…there was no need for dwp to bung her on el cheapo poundland scheme..what other ppl will we find who workwise hacve been wrongly assessed apart from ill health…
brain surgeons?
I’ve been kicked out of volunteering a lot: in order to sign on, and/or to go on work schemes and work programme. Stuff I was struggling with but managing, and doing what I could. Each time the people lost their membeR of staff (!) (not plural!) and got in big financial trouble. It was replaced with nothing at all (they used to say I had to leave in order to be ready for hypothetical jobs that never came). Sometimes it was replaced with that plus work schemes, at bigoted and useless companies that never found me or any of my workfare cohort a job in all the 12 years of being at the schemes.Later our landlord removed the only phone, that was for incoming calls only. It took the jobcentre ages to notice. When I pointed it out, they accused me of removing the phone myself (yeah you dorks I ate it). Then when they accepted it was my landlord, they blamed me for letting him (something I have no control over, objection would mean eviction). Why I mention phones is because the jobcentre had another reason to kick me off courses and volunteering: because I was meant to be 100% available 24/7 for any job, and to be at home at all times sitting by the phone (on a landing and shared by 20+ others). This is self contradictory. If I was at home all the time with no outbound phone and no computer, how could I go out to get food? Get news? Sign on? Attend work schemes? Look for work?
Go to the next town to see the council about my benefit? Go for medical treatment? I was ordered to leave classes and activities on signing and nonsigning days, and on evenings and weekends. Their answer: They wanted me to be by the phone all the time so they could ring me with a job offer. They never rang about a job offer. The few times they rang was about my benefit and they didn’t sort it out. I said I can’t hear on that phone anyway so if they have a job offer they should write it to me. They didn’t agree to, and never did. Also they kept telling me to call on that phone from home, not understanding the meaning of ‘incoming calls only’. They wanted me to use a payphone (couldn’t really afford then and can’t now) and switch rapidly between that and being phoned back on the landline. I said if I walk to the payphone it is 10 minutes, I can sprint in 2 to 5 minutes. But not like 10 times! I’d miss every call! What was the most crap part of their argument, was that they were going to call me about all these wonderful jobs (which they didn’t specify; and which never existed in the first place), so I should not be anywhere else. No court had ordered me to be placed under house arrest, and even when they do, they make some provision for food, supplies, communication. I saw the rubbish for what it was: they go home at 5pm and so nobody is there at the jobcentre or their call centre to call you at night, in the weekends, on bank holidays, or in the morning. So going to a 6-8pm class does not affect my ability to be contacted, as there is not going to be anyone from JCP phoning!
The things I got kicked off were replaced with workfare I couldn’t do, and work schemes threatening/trying to send me on workfare placements I wouldn’t be able to do (nor having any interest or aptitude in). When (at the schemes) I came up with suggestions of people I could work for or work I could possibly do, all my proposals were rejected.
Since then, they blamed me for not having a mobile. (I can’t afford to run one, and am always losing things) After that, they said I should get home computer and internet. I can’t afford that, the landlord won’t install it, I have no control and it would be a £30 monthly surcharge on my rent if he said yes. Actually since the network is controlled by one of my worst enemies in the house, the people I hate would be able to get my computer stuff. The council would cut HB even more as computers are a ‘luxury’, despite being ‘essential’ on the poverty index.
This is like WW1 and WW2 where they tried to define what were the protected occupations to avoid conscription.
ANYONE KNOW WHAT THIS IS?
BUSINESS ACTION ON HOMLESSNESS.
http://www.bitc.org.uk/community/employability/homelessness/
ANYONE OUT THERE ANY IDEAS?
IS THIS MORE WORKFARE?
http://www.bitc.org.uk/community/employability/homelessness/ready_for_work.html
Yup. (Yuck)
Read their booklet. It says everyone wants to work… There is a screening stage to see if you are job ready. Actually there is no mention I could find of disability, medical issues… And no page on what is in the screening stage. Also they not you get to decide if you are job ready. With all their bases, it is actually a SMALL figure that in one year they only managed to find jobs for 311 people. Overall 2500 jobs since 2001. That is 208 people in the UK per year. They say they are proud that 95% complete the scheme. (5% were kicked off) They say it is their excellence that is the reason. No, it is because if you leave or misbehave you get your dole stopped! They have no page to explain what they mean by job ready (a bolloxissimo phrase, are we like electronic components or slaughter-ready turkeys?).
They have pages of ‘successful’ case studies. Who the fuck wants to be a ‘case study’ for these poverty pimps anyway? Bet they don’t choose to or consent. (My current WPP wanted to make me into an article last summer in their magazine. Their spin was going to be that the fact I was there meant they are the ones who caused a sports success in my life. The event it referred to was independent, my own efforts, decided a year earlier, and nothing to do with them whatsoever. In fact their only effort was to let me have the occasional coffee, which I have to make after being ‘offered’ it. They also wanted their story to say I was a success story and they had helped me. All they did was boss me around for the last couple or so years going to their futile remote and isolated inaccessible, disabled-unfriendly centre with bust chairs and bust computers. Treating me like a dog on a choke chain, dragging me there and back [2 hours to walk there and back], deciding on the day how long they’ll keep me, all afternoon or kick me out after 20 minutes. Going for endless lunch breaks, or having posh £50 delivered lunches in front of us who have eaten nothing for 3 or 4 days. Then throwing most of it in the bin and refusing to let the homeless guys there fish it out and eat it. When I found out this was the story they were going to run, I demanded at once that they pull the story.)
This scheme (brochure/site) concentrates on offenders and ex prisoners, but it lumps them together with substance users and the long term unemployed. That ‘criminalises’ and stigmatises the merely-poor. Also it does not mention single parents, carers, or anyone disabled. It assumes everyone is ablebodied. Of course if you are in one of these groups you might not want to work with other groups in the list. Technically a single mum rape survivor could be sent on a scheme with a rapist. (Possibly even hers, or would they really be that dumb and cruel?) The site says ‘barriers to work’ but does not explain what it believes them to be. As if also you should only have to sneeze or clap and hey presto, the barriers to work have gone. It does not address the point that a ‘barrier to work’ could be ‘UNABLE TO WORK!!!’. They are magicians, are they going to cure all our imaginary disabilities and fictional cancers? Provide care for all the children/adults we care for, for free? Grow back limbs we have lost or were born without? Un-paralyse us? Normalise our abnormal minds? Do all the tasks and responsibilities we do, for free? Feed and clothe and shelter us? Pay our healthcare costs? Let us study? Get us jobs after the scheme ends?
When they claim to have found people jobs, they do not say what jobs. If they were minimum wage, above, below, or more unpaid workfare. They do not say who the jobs are with, or how long they last. If they are only temporary or part-time. If people get sacked or made redundant, or the company folds. If they can’t do the job and get ‘let go’. If they LIKE the job or hate it, or are stuck in it and now unable to progress, change career, or study. Or if the jobs they find cannot be refused, if refusal means benefit is stopped. It does not mention conscientious objection, ethics, or sustainability. Or the negative impacts on health, particularly if already sick and disabled. They do not say if anyone got killed or injured at work.
The range of unpaid jobs their scheme has (workfare) is very limited, and not suitable for most disabled people. Construction work, warehouse, factory, outdoor labouring… even shelf stacking is not possible to some people. An older Asian man is shown pushing a huge Royal Mail trolley along a street. (I have applied for the job of working in a sorting office. I was told this is no longer a separate job and all staff must divide their time with driving and foot delivery. Kind of against the equal ops policy! I am not allowed to drive, can’t carry/push the sacks or trolley for foot delivery, have issues with dogs, can’t walk the required distance or carry the required weight. Personal safety is an issue as I’m more likely to be attacked for mail theft etc. Also even the indoor sorting is very mechanised and they want me to have things like forklift, which again I am not allowed to do.)
Points this raises: On work programme there would be no time to go through the regular Royal Mail staff’s screening, security clearance, background check, references, CRB, induction, training, health and safety, medical checks, lifting courses, supervision period. So they have not established that the person is competent and safe to be doing the work, (when so many of their existing staff do theft and fraud with mail after having passed all checks), is who they claim to be, is not a criminal… They have not trained or supervised the person. They have not assessed their health issues.
In doing this job, regular staff face abuse, assault, theft, mugging, arson (of trolley), dog attacks, injury, potential rape, the risk of murder or accidental death. They at least have some training and insurance, and healthcare, and a union.
Workfare people have none of these things. Sending them out alone, on a route they don’t know and will struggle to memorise, is a recipe for trouble. If they are dishonest they might take mail, or push the trolley in a canal. They could get lost. They could mistakenly give post to people falsely claiming to be the addressee. Or put post in the wrong house, causing serious consequences.
They could injure their back or shoulder, or get/aggravate a hernia. Or fall under a lorry. Or get a heart attack or stroke. Or collapse from pushing/dragging/carrying heavy loads.
Probably all injuries on their workfare schemes get covered up, as happened on my 2009 workfare when I got injured at work.
Warehouse work also has potential for injury or death. People in the workplace get run over by forklifts, electrocuted, crushed by things falling from heights. Outdoor work: when will somebody in the workfare in the UK be in the papers for dropping a chainsaw, cutting off their arm or leg and bleeding to death?? (Or the shipyard guy who was DECAPITATED.) [Which IDS, being a vampire, could come back from, so he probably thinks the dead man is just shirking]
I’ve been injured in warehouses I was sent to by agencies, when things fell on me from the top of the pile, and it was covered up and I was expected to keep moving though injured and concussed.
Shelf stacking is no good if you can’t reach the shelves. I can’t reach as a customer so how would I reach as staff? Would Muslims and Jews like being told to handle pork in supermarkets? Would Hindus work in a beef factory?
All in all, the statistics on their site are unconvincing and shoddy. Numbers are one thing, but quality is not being monitored. The ‘jobs’ could be McJobs, soulless and pointless unskilled drudgery. Oh they have that job in the legal firm? But who wants to work there, if you do want to: who is suitable or could do the job?
@something survived there is a business list of clients they work with ie farm you out to. On list is boots the tax fiddler ingeus and mcdonalds .. and lot of others maybe to make them look good. there is another site called work placement i posted or similar name again i asked who were they. Where are they coming from its the attraction of govt money I bet.
Your all forgetting that Cait Riley is still working for nothing all be it voluntarily for the state, and was a possible factor in being let off the wp, plus the fact she has a degree, all factors they will use in favour of her and against those they consider to be uneducated.
If it’s not down to class then it’s down to brass, whichever way the ones with the least (which in this case is education) will be missing out, they are cruel to anyone who doesn’t represent their own class.
You have to be a working mother because the middle and upper classes want it and to deny yourself the right to leave your child at one year old to pursue your career means your a loser. The double family incomes and the married tax allowance they are hoping to regurgitate all comes in handy too.
The only way to stop the class system is to stop differentials in pay. Education should be a means to a job you want to do within and for the benefit of society, not to have more renumeration for the work you do. All work should be considered worthy and all should be paid the same living wage for doing it.
Jeremy hunt stood up and spoke of those that work hard and have saved will benefit from the £75,000 cap on social care(which was intended to be £35.000 by the way). He knows full well this amount will eat up most of a married working class couples homes and savings should they both have to go into care for medical reasons – which should be free under NHS.
The upshot is that it is keeping non-qualified, minimum wage care workers in a job, because the upper and middle classes will probably bring in a qualified carer for their parents or find lavish surroundings with grounds for the patients to walk in, not a 30metre square concreted patio to fit all residents on, along with their tiny rooms and cramped lounge that has no room for visitors to sit in with their relatives.
THATS WHAT THE WORKING CLASS CAN AFFORD FOR THEIR HARD WORK AND SAVING. BLOOD DISGRACEFUL.
Graduate does not mean middle class. It’s often harder now for graduates to get work, as employers call them overqualified or inexperienced. The employer does not want to pay extra for graduates. If work is found, student loans must be repaid. Jobs found are not often in the subject studied, and often are low/unskilled. Better paid jobs now want postgraduates, but courses are usually now unaffordable. Many people on the dole, including longterm, are graduates. If they became disabled or a disability worsened, they may be unable to do the job they trained and qualified in (or sometimes any job). Accommodation for unemployed, non-studying graduates is hard to find.
Also if you are seen as bolshie or a troublemaker sometimes they (DWP) come down harder on you if you are a graduate/qualified, intelligent, articulate, educated. It reminds you a bit of the Chinese Communist Party, who sent such ‘obviously capitalist and counter-revolutionary’ (how did they decide that?) people to ‘re-education’ propaganda classes, at forced manual labour camps: until they died or were executed or were ‘cured’.
They are trying to STOP the poor getting education and academic qualifications. As soon as you try, they kick you off benefits, or bully you till you drop the course. What they want is for the poor to be uneducated, unthinking, ‘lumpenproletariat’; living from fight to fight, shag to shag, and in a narcotic trance of Jeremy Kyle and booze and drugs. They DON’T want the poor thinking for themselves, having opinions, having intelligence. The poor are TOLD that their best aspirations are as hairdressers, burger flippers, or in the army. If you want a job not on the prescribed list, you are seen as abnormal and dangerous, to be shot down at every turn. Tabloids tell people that the most important things are who has had a boob job, who is shagging who, what the latest soap storyline is. All foreigners are mad, or actually evil and trying to kill all Brits. Every day they pick on one of the same few enemies: people on benefits (which a lot of the tabloids’ sedated and de-brained readers actually are, but do not notice that their favourite papers are attacking them), foreigners, immigrants, Muslims, green people and the EU (seen as a conspiracy, probably to turn us all into windmills?), the disabled, asylum seekers, single mothers (which a lot of the readers actually are), non-whites, gay people, etc.
People who actually ARE very uneducated, inarticulate etc, are an easier target for the DWP, they can just stop their benefits and have them thrown out struggling and arrested if they ‘kick off’ in the jobcentre. So they are easy people to add to their quota of people to kick off benefits, but it doesn’t seem to give them enough of a buzz. They apparently prefer to go for the quiet ones, the people with qualifications, and people who will be able to put forward a cogent argument. Often the staff are from a working class background and the sight of an intelligent person is a ‘revenge’ alert for them, they like being able to destroy your life so casually in front of you, as if the person had personally done something to them, just by being brighter and more knowledgeable. They also gain more kudos with colleagues when they kick one of these ‘more difficult’ people off benefits. Does that sound counter-intuitive? Well, not really. We are told that the ‘difficult’ people are the ones who march into a jobcentre drunk, swearing and ranting, insult and threaten the staff, and get thrown straight out by the security guard or arrested. The staff admittedly like the spectacle. It punctuates their otherwise dull and repetitive day. But these ‘clients’ are not the difficult ones, they are the easiest. It only requires a click of the mouse and their benefit is removed as they are hauled out of the building screaming obscenities. True, it helps to reinforce their perceptions of us as ‘scum’. But there is no real challenge to the staff, all they have to do is stop the person’s benefit with no effort at all. The truly difficult, challenging client is the quiet, polite one who thinks. Who answers back with assertiveness, not rudeness. They are more likely to appeal a benefit sanction, and the DWP like a fight. Individual staff relish it, as the cost won’t be coming directly from their wage packet. After all if the client obeyed everything how can you stop their benefit? But they then have to invent fictitious offences and try to claim the person committed them, or real but unlikely/impossible ones. In the hope that the person will get angry and gain themselves a sanction from that alone. If the person is able to out-think the DWP staff, they in turn win every time because they have the power to stop the person’s benefits. If a metaphor of games was used: the swearing ‘yob’ being arrested is a game of Poohsticks, but the intellectual having their benefit stopped is a game of SuDoku.
If the person wins their appeal, the DWP do not see it as losing, for they just wait till the cycle comes round again to their next attempt to target that jobseeker. In between they go after single mothers and the disabled, fairly easy fodder. They say that in the interests of equality they will send the people on workfare, even workfare that is totally unsuitable or downright dangerous.
Jobcentre culture itself is very homogenised (‘samey’) and anti-intellectual, even among middle class staff. Everything is scripted and there is no opportunity for creativity, thought, leniency, humanity, or the consideration of mitigating circumstances. Staff are competing to keep their own jobs, and against eachother for who can reach their quota or get a bonus (achieved by kicking people off benefits). They are looking down on junior staff and up to superiors able to fire them. In their many breaks, they have a false ‘matey’ relationship with eachother, laughing about kicking LTB’s off the dole; but this is a thin veneer, behind which the dimmest of them must surely be aware of the ruthless competition to survive, the precariousness and fragility of their jobs, and their colleagues’ likelihood to stab them in the back and hang them out to dry. It seems a completely toxic working environment.
Which is why, at A4E, I ended up answering back to the ‘key worker’ I was sent to. I’d put up with months of rudeness and bullying, in silence. One day she launched into a long speech about how worthwhile her job was and actually how much better she was than me. I listened to 2 whole hours of her slagging me off to my face (bet she used to work at Gitmo), and stayed calm. Finally she asked how I can have any self esteem or self respect as I am obviously such a useless and worthless person, because I do not have a job, and did I somehow think I was better than her? I didn’t say yes or no, so she pressed me and I agreed my life with the things I choose to do was more meaningful to me than coming there. And that I wasn’t trying to say if somebody was better or worse, but that I do have self esteem and self respect (despite having been bullied endlessly), and do think I am a worthwhile and useful member of society, if I didn’t I would not be here, and that my life has meaning or I would not be alive. She asked how I could stay like this after being grilled by her for two hours. I said because you have in fact given me hope. She said how? I said, “Well – you work here.” (in other words that her life is not as big, powerful or meaningful as she’d like to think; and it is hardly a good place to work and hardly a way to live; that I almost felt sorry for her… that her problem is she can’t see beyond her office; that there are better things to do with your life/time; that I’m glad I’m not you.) I was very quiet when I said it, and it made the whole room go even quieter.
Then she exploded. She almost hit me. It was the closest I came to having my benefit stopped at A4E for something I had actually done, as opposed to stuff I hadn’t done. I was in massive trouble for about two months, they were saying my benefit was going to be stopped forever AND I could dig up roads too! I felt proud and terrified all in the same moment. She was the worst (most aggressive) of the work scheme staff I’ve been handed to so far. MY apparent charge was ‘aggressive and threatening behaviour’ but actually my 4 words were said so quietly and calmly you could hear a pin drop. This was two hours after the start of her shouting, red-faced rant about how she was better than me and how I was either on drugs or selling them because all poor people do this. (No my less than good appearance is due to sickness and disability, plus they don’t help by overworking me and starving me!)
I had to conform more after that just to keep my dole, but I did my best to avoid her. Later A4E lost the contract, possibly because they were a massive tankerload of ordure, although even that has practical applications. Serco took over in the same building and I got sent there. Reapplying for their own jobs, despite their terrible performance records as A4E, most of the A4E turds floated back to the top and were rehired by Serco, including my Key Worker. (They used the same term, ‘Key worker’, as is used for people assigned to work with ex-criminals, drug addicts, homeless people and mentally ill people.) I had to try to stay out of her way, and she was always giving nasty looks. I had problems with Serco being a company that works with the military, nuclear and similar sectors including foreign arms sales companies. Also with the conflict of interest: the floor below is the housing association I am on the books with for a home, and so are many others that could be sent there.
Fast-forwarding, after I was at Serco they too lost their contract, for terrible performance, and they all got sacked. I had been sent to the Scouts, whose shambolic work scheme had no disability access and no toilets I could use, who are a religious organisation getting ‘secular’ money, and who put me into ‘group therapy’ with a bunch of people some of whom I know and hate. Their sessions were spent endlessly rewriting my CV or having them rewrite it, then them saying ‘this is crap who wrote it’, and me saying ‘you wrote it’. Rather than work in an abattoir (I’m veggie!) I arranged work myself at the last minute. Later the jobcentre ordered me to quit!
Hope that key worker is now an enema tester…
Like A4E’s Emma, the enema of the people. I think my key worker’s main regret in life was not being Emma. She apparently aspired to be her in looks, dress, body language, etc. and tried to outbitch Emma.
Thanks for all that, something survived. This account of parts of your life are more interesting to hear about than Owen Meany’s – and he is a fictional character – so not much of a compliment in there – John Irving made him but he sometimes (JI) goes on a bit.
What you’re saying, near top/second paragraph then, is ‘Try not to appear to be too much less articulate than the adviser/try not to be too much more articulate than them either’ First know thine own
enema-tester. But the adviser is often a different person. And others can sometimes be a bit different on different days. So It’s like walking along a buttery tightrope in this case, without a net and even without even a pole – blindfolded; backwards.
Is there a points system (unofficial)? – I’ve only now realised there must be so what used to be “10 points for a granny” – going back to primary/secondary school levels of ‘entertainment’ – so, ’10 points for a professor’ ‘double points for a woman if she’s pregnant or thinking of becoming with child’ ’11 points for a new-signee’ ’49 points for a nuclear scientist’; and the guilty pleasure sanction: ’15 points for a friend or relative’. Single parent – high five.
DON’T dress too smartly; or too scarily; try to blend in. Don’t wear diamante or anything from Burberry. Look interested; be polite – but not too enthusiastic so that it’s clearly acting and don’t start to ‘discuss’ anything off topic or they’ll assume you want a fight. (I try not to, but sometimes …). Tell them you (prefer not to) have your jobs universally-snatched but not that you silently screamed for an hour before coming in to prepare for the appointment. Don’t always bring a book or at least don’t wave it around – it sometime feels as though being in possession of a hardback could be misinterpreted as an act of aggression…
Any/all how-not-to-provoke-antagonism messages gratefully received – hoping also that jc’s will soon introduce their own series of workshops eg. ‘How Not To Crumble Under Stress’ and ‘Don’t Let Being Out Of Pocket Spoil Your Outlook/Attitude.’ for beginners.
OH LOOK MACDONALDS AND INGEUS ARE ON THE LIST..
http://www.bitc.org.uk/community/employability/homelessness/supporters.html
Jobs on that list I’d do: the zoo, the garden centre, Refugee Support.
Ones I have a problem with people being forced to do: nuclear power is a big one….
@guy if you read she actually working on checkout at supermarket now…
& someone, (I didn’t catch who he was) on R4 news, has just used that as ‘evidence’ that her 2 weeks at P****L***stacking shelves must have provided useful skills & experience – so it’s all fine. Will Hutton did counter-argue that everyone’s entitled to work with pay and that we do all pay in and should be supported if need be when there isn’t work to be had. (It’s one of the few times I’ve heard anyone argue this on there clearly without qualifying it in some way). They started the item with “the Government is today producing new Regulations … ”
– so the window-of-opportunity won’t stay open for long – but somehow it seems as though the cat is out of the bag & other things(?) could follow. Whatever their next re-write, they’re today facing loudly-voiced opposition from more than one side and it might start to feel more possible to question/challenge the use of ‘mandatory’/look at regulations before we accept all of them at face value. Feels like good timing that this has happened now (just before April). I’m just a bit concerned that with all the re-writing needing to be done (today), that more of the crucial detail of the UC (Y.U.K) might be overlooked & there might be things within it which have been forgotten/misdrafted …& then what??
(It also said, effectively, – on radio news that IDS has been today shown to have gone beyond his remit – but nothing just yet about whether he’d be held to account/where/when).
@shirleynott a double edgesd sword indeed..its poss that they can sneak in stuff they wanted in first place but didnt have time…knowing this bunch of crooks they could sneak in anything….like charging jobseekers to pay for WP…or something mental…
They will bring it back. then someone else will have to challenge dwp through the courts.
I’ve been fighting the bastards for nearly two years . Staff can lie in a court and get away with it.
I’m just waiting now for the news from the government that IDS and Hobain have been sacked.
DWP ATOS IDS HOBAN –NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE !!!!!
Why can’t they just do a Pope Ratzinger?
… “a GREAT BIG STEAMING PILE OF SHITE!!!!”
Chewie
Is the supermarket checkout her wp job or is she working there willingly?
“voluntary”, “mandatory” “work experience” “placement”…. 🙂
Employers will think: why were you not offered a paid job after that? It makes you less employable not more. It’s manual unskilled work. Of course if you do end up there you could be later made redundant – or could be still stuck there 4 years later with no prospects and no will to live. Oh no hang on, if you quit you can’t get dole, also if you get sacked now. Stay there and see if you get promoted to… manager of a branch of Poundland. Truly my cup runneth over….
Utter, utter bollocks.
It’s like being told to go and live naked in a hole in the ground, with nothing to wear but barbed wire, holly, nettles, thorns, and poison ivy. If they like you, after 5 years you might get promoted to drinking a cup of sick.
“Oh yes thanks massa/baas!” we are then supposed to say.
THIS IS FROM LAST YEAR ON THIS CASE IN DAILY MAIL..
“So little Miss degree is too good to stock shelves in poundland. Welcome to the real world, I wish I could sit on benefits till I find a job that I like but like most people I live in the real world and work to support my family, hoping to find an alternative job when the chance arrives.”
VOTES.UP.3788 UNDER ‘BEST RATED.’..
“Not everyone wants to stack shelves for a living. She is qualified to do a job that is much better paid. She studied hard for 3 years. Doing a job that you hate is pointless. It’s the government’s fault she’s unemployed. I hope she gets a good settlement.”
VOTED DOWN 1476 UNDER ‘WORST RATED.’..
That was last years..i wonder if it was mentioned that DWP had broken the rules would the vost casting had made any difference..???
@gut fawkes it appears its a part time job..”Following the ruling, Miss Reilly said: “I don’t think I am above working in shops like Poundland. I now work part time in a supermarket. It is just that I expect to get paid for working.”
The far-right libertarian thicko argument from dumb Daily Mail/UKIP scumbag.
@antilibertarian…dont waste your time on these fuckers…i used to but its pointless..the only ones to watch out for are not the mouthy idiot yobs..its the ones that get paid to derail opinion…
Just exposing their filthy tory/LOLbertarian mentality that is copy and pasted from the Daily Mail/Rupert Murdoch.
Most of these tory nutters seem to be from the lunatic (far-right) UKIP fringe.
@antilibertarian that does not surprise me in the least and yet we keep seeing ‘VOTE UKIP’ ..i see this on yahoo threads..and i keep wondering why??
This thick inbred UKIP bimbo pretty much sums up their useless, fascist nutter party
BTW they only have 9%(which is only 4% more then BNP had before Griffin was invited on QT) in the real polls (at least one that closely predicts electoral outcomes – ICM/Guardian) the dumb Rupert Murdoch/YouGov poll is heavily biased.
UKIP the “respectable” face of fascism.
People like Mark Wallace are clueless. In this country we have a minimum wage which guarantees a minimum hourly rate: workfare breaches this minimum wage. What an idiot!
Latest from the DWP on High Court Ruling:
12 February 2013 – Statement on Court of Appeal judgment
Responding to today’s Court of Appeal judgment on Government employment schemes, Minister for Employment, Mark Hoban, said:
“The court has backed our right to require people to take part in programmes which will help get them into work. It’s ridiculous to say this is forced labour. This ruling ensures we can continue with these important schemes.
“We are however disappointed and surprised at the court’s decision on our regulations. There needed to be flexibility so we could give people the right support to meet their needs and get them into a job. We do not agree with the court’s judgment and are seeking permission to appeal, but new regulations will be tabled to avoid any uncertainty.
“Ultimately the judgment confirms that it is right that we expect people to take getting into work seriously if they want to claim benefits.”
Notes to Editors:
Two claimants who had been placed on two different Government schemes were granted permission to seek a judicial review to challenge the validity of the Jobseeker’s Allowance (Employment, Skills and Enterprise Scheme) (ESE) Regulations 2011 which underpin these schemes. The Community Action Programme trialled the provision of mandatory community work for the very long-term unemployed, while the sector-based work academies (sbwa) scheme includes work experience and training.
The Court of Appeal has backed an earlier High Court judgment that requiring participation in the schemes does not breach human rights, and that a formal policy statement is not required before Regulations can be enforced.
While the judgment supports the principle and policy of our employment schemes, and acknowledges the care and resources we have dedicated to implementing these schemes, the Court of Appeal ruled that the regulations did not describe the schemes to which they apply.
The Court of Appeal has therefore quashed the ESE Regulations. We are appealing that verdict, but in the meantime we are tabling new regulations to ensure that we can continue requiring people to take part in these schemes which give them the skills and experience they need to find work.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/newsroom/press-releases/2013/feb-2013/dwp022-13.shtml
http://t.co/LCR6Zny9
“One paper even said that they weren’t interested in these stories. They were only interested in the stories about the fraudulent cases that have been caught”
Gee i wonder what filthy rag that was
DWP Mark Hoban said
” “The court has backed our right to require people to take part in programmes which will help get them into work. It’s ridiculous to say this is forced labour. This ruling ensures we can continue with these important schemes.
“We are however disappointed and surprised at the court’s decision on our regulations. There needed to be flexibility so we could give people the right support to meet their needs and get them into a job. We do not agree with the court’s judgment and are seeking permission to appeal, but new regulations will be tabled to avoid any uncertainty.
“Ultimately the judgment confirms that it is right that we expect people to take getting into work seriously if they want to claim benefits.”
Ok HO BAN ..WHY IS THERE A SCHEME CALLED MANDATORY THEN FUCKFACE?
Oh and another thing ‘going behind the back of parliament’ NOT bother you ???
TWAT..
IDS and Hoban HAVE gone behind the back of parliament and exceeded their powers knowing they were doing this – instant dismissal should and probably will follow, I can guarantee they will be hauled in front of Cameron and the work and pension’s committee and finally sacked although it may take a week or so to happen.
Hauled in front of Cameron and the work and pension’s committee “EVERY FUCKING DAY!!!!!” (to quote to Minister for Work and Pensions – Iain Duncan Smith) if there is any justice in this world!!
Mr ‘Hulk’ Hoban did appear slightly tense earlier this afternoon when explaining that rewriting the regulations (quickly) is “the right thing to do.”
@shirleynott HOBAN SHOULD DO THE RIGHT THING AND RESIGN —THEN TAKE A LOADED GUN AND BLOW HIS SHIT FOR BRAINS OUT..
would miss his brain
Take getting into work seriously? Oh just say you do, you refuse to do the joke jobs that they come up with. This week they wanted me to work for an oil firm in Saudi Arabia. Not a fan of either. It’s also a country that could kill me. Newsflash, UK human rights laws don’t apply there
@ss not my fault I get fat bonus says hester after rate rigging scandal.
http://m.yahoo.com/w/ygo-frontpage/lp/story/uk/573835/coke.bp%3B_ylt=A2KLt8UlCRtR73sAPRsp89w4%3B_ylu=X3oDMTFycG9lNm85BGNwb3MDMQRjc2VjA21vYmlsZS10ZARpbnRsA3VrBHBrZwNpZC01NzM4MzUEcG9zAzEEc2xrA2ltYWdl?ref_w=frontdoors&view=today&.tsrc=yahoo&.intl=uk&.lang=en-gb
Forced labour in the UK: the business angle
http://www.jrf.org.uk/publications/forced-labour-uk-business-angle
Click to access forced-labour-and-business-full.pdf
Please listen to me guys (n gals). This is your perfect opportunity to reclaim your common law rights. When these new regulations are re-written, your jobcentre adviser will have to issue you with a new letter re-referring you to the Work Programme. You will be told to sign for it – DO NOT SIGN IT. They want and need you to ”understand” the work programme.(”understand” is in fact a legalese term that they use which in actual fact means ”stand under” ”obey”) once you sign for and accept the letter you are giving your consent to being placed on the work programme.
Then when you attend a work programme induction – if you sign ANY of the documents they give you, they have then removed you from common law and have now got you under civil law. Retaining your common law rights gives you ultimate protection from these bastards and that is why they desperately need to remove you from it so they can have power and control over you, and the only way they can get you under civil law is for you to sign their documents.
But unfortunately for them (and the government) YOU CANNOT be forced to enter into any contract under threat of penalty (threatening to remove your benefits etc) as that makes it an ”adhesion contract” (invalid in the eyes of the law).
I am officially on the work programme, but when i was asked to sign for that referral letter at the jobcentre, i refused by saying that i didn’t ”understand” it, My adviser tried to pressure me into signing it and even brought the manager over to try to intimidate me into signing for it, but i knew (as hopefully all of you are, you are not obliged to sign for ANYTHING at the JC apart from a jobseekers agreement and the piece of paper you sign every 2 weeks.
I do not attend any work programme appointments (they have referred me for sanction over and over again for not attending but each time the DWP write to me asking for an explanation, i just write back i have no contract with them and that i cannot be forced to enter into contract. I also point out to them that i didn’t ”understand” their referral letter, and that i didn’t sign for – or accept it. The dwp have no choice but to accept my reply and there is nothing they can do to me.
If you do not let them remove you from your common law rights, they absolutely cannot touch you.
That’s all you have to, just read it back to them, quoting bits here and there, saying: “what does than mean?”, “I don’t understand that”, “mandated to what?, how can I be mandated? by the jobcentre, why aren’t the work programme mandating me to the work programme, just twist it and talk shit”. Fuck all they can do! 🙂
Thank you so much for this…
I’ve seen an annotation on an FoI request which more or less says the same thing, from an S.Martin – who seems VERY clued-up about this sort of thing.
1st annotation on this link.
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/is_the_signing_of_an_action_plan#comment-28652
Their staff obviously don’t understand it either as they have never been adequately able to explain it. I think a chunky permanent marker through that bit removes you from having signed it or refused to sign it…
“UK definition
As indicated above, the UK government created a new offence which criminalises forced labour and related practices. Section 71 of the Coroners and Justice Act (2009) states that:
[the] offence consists of holding another person in slavery or servitude or requiring another person to perform forced or compulsory labour. The circumstances must be such that the defendant knows or ought to know that the person is being so held or required to perform such labour. The offence applies to legal persons (e.g., companies) as it applies to natural persons.
The terms ‘holds another person in slavery or servitude’ and ‘requires another person to perform forced or compulsory labour’ are defined in accordance with Article 4 of the European Convention on Human Rights”
I think the more relevant passage reads as follows:
“Article 4. The conventions, defined forced or compulsory labour as being ‘all work or service which is exacted from any person under the menace of any penalty and for which the said person has not offered himself voluntarily’. To that end, the section 71 offence will require an element of coercion or deception between the defendant and the victim.”
The Work Programme isn’t a person offering themselves voluntary. It’s coercion through the denial of welfare payments made in good faith by society in aggregate as a form of community insurance policy. It’s doesn’t matter if one person has worked for decades an another person hasn’t through lack of available work.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/slavery_servitude_and_forced_or_compulsory_labour/#a05
“To that end, the section 71 offence will require an element of coercion or deception between the defendant and the victim”
COERCION AND DECEPTION…
well ppl are Corerced..and deception (you will get a job out of it) sorry but it was found that jobs gained from work program were very low..i would like to add this..
the boycott workfare campaign..most if not all companies puled out of the scheme…did they not??weasle words form tesco but no guarantees..
they admitted that it was the free labour..
to add to that i would cite that Tory MP who was furious that companies backed down easily durung the campaign..well if it was apparent that it was a free labout scheme why on earthy was he making such a fuss?
so yes…COERCION AND DECEPTION….
Yes, the whole Work Programme system is predicated on the basis, and pushed by the BBC, that there are jobs for everyone out there if only they will work – a total lie. The denial of social contract that imposes fines in the form of welfare sanctions is coercion.
@john can you show me in the doc the coercion and deception part?
It’s the same document under the “Exceptions” section.
Maximum kudos to Cait Reilly. Well done to that brave and committed young woman.💚
And where is IDS ? – NO STATEMENT FROM THAT COWARD ON THE NEWS CHANNELS – he’s let Hoban take the brunt of it again.
Hoban is the guy who said “let’s not demonise” ATOS when faced with a barrage of terrible stories from his fellow mp’s in parliament.
What people will do for power/money never fails to surprise. He is getting his little time in the political sunshine and presumably will have no complaints when “measure for measure” he receives what he has dished out to others.
Paul Posted this at 2:11pm
Language is a weapon used to make ‘others’ of people in poverty
THIS FROM THE JOSEPH ROWNTREE FOUNDATION..
http://www.jrf.org.uk/blog/2013/02/language-people-poverty
“Lest readers see this blog as the ramblings of a soft liberal-type: waste and fraud is wrong and those who allow waste and commit crimes should be held to account. That said, according to the Department for Work & Pensions’ own figures, last year we overpaid 0.7% of the welfare budget due to fraud. Compare that with an estimated £70 billion lost through tax evasion. The entire out-of-work benefits bill is 3% of our gross domestic product.
So let’s keep calm, provide the evidence and tell the story of those ‘hard-working families’ (thought I’d borrow that phrase from the Politicians’ Book of Clichés) struggling with their daily lives. At JRF, we’ve taken a closer look at the people behind the percentages. Here’s a glimpse at their stories, part of our work on developing an anti-poverty strategy.
Seventy years on from the Beveridge Report, little appears to have changed in how we describe some of our fellow citizens – a theme to be developed by my boss, Julia Unwin, in her Toynbee Hall lecture later this month.
You’re familiar with the words “don’t be a shirker, best be a worker”. We all love a striver, never be a skiver. Cartoon clichés can reinforce Party political loyalties and help meet deadlines, more easily than carefully crafted, well-researched articles and broadcasts – to be clear, there are plenty of those around as well.
In her blog, my colleague Abigail Scott Paul talked about the risk of broadcasters’ in particular, resorting to lazy stereotypes of ‘problem families’ on ‘sink estates’. The inescapable conclusion being, these people are ‘A Problem to Society’.
Beware the shorthand, because the facts are often lost in translation and manipulation. As a Mr T. Blair nearly said, I’m not one for soundbites or quote-grabs, but it could appear, through the language we use, that we’re being tough on those in poverty and not looking closely enough at its causes. “
It can’t be a sink estate- we don’t have a sink
This is what Paul Posted 2:11pm link to it as well
Section 71 of the Coroners and Justice Act 2009 (“the 2009 Act”) creates an offence of holding another person in slavery or servitude or requiring them to perform forced or compulsory labour. The offence came into force on 6 April 2010.
Section 71 provides that:
1) A person (D) commits an offence if:
(a) D holds another person in slavery or servitude and the circumstances are such that D knows or ought to know that the person is so held, or
(b) D requires another person to perform forced or compulsory labour and the circumstances are such that D knows or ought to know that the person is being required to perform such labour.
2) In subsection (1) the references to holding a person in slavery or servitude or requiring a person to perform forced or compulsory labour are to be construed in accordance with Article 4 of the Human Rights Convention (which prohibits a person from being held in slavery or servitude or being required to perform forced or compulsory labour).
3) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable:
(a) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding the relevant period [12 months] or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or both;
(b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 14 years or a fine, or both.
4) In this section:
“Human Rights Convention” means the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms agreed by the Council of Europe at Rome on 4 November 1950;
“the relevant period” means:
(a) in relation to England and Wales, 12 months; and
(b) in relation to Northern Ireland, 6 months.
Well according to Mr Hoban ” we mustnt demonize ATOS”” instead we will demonize jobseekers..
Aren’t the sink estates what the government had built? After demolishing communities and shipping people out to crappy ‘homes’?
@liz i think i already posted that myslef but never mind..
Bob found it interesting and I found it in the post from Paul. I guess the argument is people on benefits are being paid and therefore not slavery.
But slaves were fed and housed….
It’s not slavery, it’s serfdom…
…and raped, beaten, tortured and killed
“(Wo)man is born free but everywhere s/he is in chain (store)s …”
(with apologies to Jean-Jacques Rousseau/Cait Reilly)
The ESE Scheme
8 A claimant who is taking part in the ESE Scheme is not required to meet the jobseeking conditions of
1.
being available for employment and
2.
actively seeking employment
Ah yeah, but ……..
9 Instead these claimants will be subject to the requirements of the ESE Scheme. Failure to participate in the ESE Scheme can attract a sanction (see DMG 34820 et seq).
Example
Jonty has just been released from prison. His date of release is 6.3.12 and he made a claim to JSA in advance of being released. Jonty has also been mandated to the ESE Scheme with immediate effect. The DM determines that Jonty cannot be treated as either being available for employment or as ASE. However as a condition of being on the ESE Scheme, Jonty is not required to be either available or ASE for a period of one week from the date of discharge, 6.3.12, to 12.3.12. Jonty may, as a result of participating in the ESE Scheme, be required to perform some activity connected with stabilising his life with the aim of securing employment following his release from prison. Failure to do this without good cause will result in a sanction.
…..Jonty????
I wonder………………….
@yosserian hughes we wish…
Click to access m-06-12.pdf
@LIZ.yes at the moment i ma trtying to figure out this:
Click to access m-06-12.pdf
and this:
http://www.bitc.org.uk/community/employability/homelessness/supporters.html
if you and any one else can enlighten me then that would be great…
“- poor accommodation provided by the employer;
– poor or misleading information having been given about the nature of the employment”
POOR OR MISLEADING INFORMATION HAVING BEEN GIVEN ABOUT THE NATURE OF EMPLOYMENT..
POOR ACCOMADATION PROVIDED BY EMPLOYER..
EG AGRICULTURAL WORKER CARAVANS..
I CITETHE ACCOMADATION POINT BECAUSE AN EMPLOYER CAN PAY YOU LESS THAT MINIMUM WAGE IF THEY PROVIDE ‘ACCOMADATION’ IE SLEEPING ON THE WORK PREMISES..
The exceptions to the forced labour regulations include “any service exacted in case of an emergency or calamity threatening the life or well-being of the community; any work or service which forms part of normal civic obligations.”
There is no life threatening emergency and working for profit making businesses that boosts shareholders dividends or “charities” which can now pay higher executive wages through the free supply of WP labour cannot be considered “normal civic obligations”. A valid example of the latter relates to the corvee system in Ancient Egypt when the life of country was entirely dependent on the annual innundation of the Nile and the canal systems used for irrigation so, out of season, everyone who was fit was employed in communal projects such as this. There was no food stamps that limited what a person could get from corvee work, unlike what asome conservative mp’s are trying to introduce now, in fact the workers were doled out rations of beer. One of the pyramids in Giza (c. 2650 BC) has some graffiti from one of the corvee works gangs describing themselves as the “Pharaoh’s Drunkards”. We haven’t come far in terms of ethics, have we?
Pyramid builders were paid in beer, garlic and salt. All were VOLUNTEERS and skilled workers. Rations were checked by officials and they often got more than the army, due to the physical nature of the work. Officials were employed to work out what rations different workforces would need based on their jobs.
I do not know of any Egyptologist who argue that corveee labour was done by volunteers in the strict sense. That doesn’t mean it was it was like our Work Programme. The nearest modern equivalent would be the New Deal in 1930’s America. No sane and fit Egyptian would have argued in principle against corvee projects that were needed for the survival of the community. It was largely undertaken during “out of season” time and it stopped the canals silting up and, in the case of the Temple building, was participating in a labour of love directed towards a happy afterlife. This was a pre-money distributive economy for well over two-thousand years. The corvee continued right up until the 19th century, millenia after the end of the Pharonic era ( when it was underpinned by Maat – see Wikipedia), and became an exploitative system directed against poor peasants.
im pretty sure we have or will be close to the workhouse before long..
will work program be suspended ?
No chance. Nor under Labour.
answer plz
@joefias we are not sure as yet…but it looks shaky unless they sudenly draft aand push through new legislation
Which is what they are planning to do before they go to bed tonight … or so they are suggesting !?
since we are in an economic downturn no job can have guarantees…dpending on skills etc..why employ an unskilled brain surgeon..
so this deception rings true..
If you employ an unskilled brain surgeon, lots more people will die. Less mouths to feed. More work for gravediggers. So make brain surgeons stack shelves and make alcoholic carjackers brain surgeons…
The mafia should run work program they would spend that money wisely
Male jobseekers to deal drugs and female jobseekers to be prostitutes?
“but in the meantime we are tabling new regulations to ensure that we can continue requiring people to take part in these schemes which give them the skills and experience they need to find work.”
SORRY BUT ALL THIS HAS TO BE DEBATED DISCUSSED AND VOTED ON..NOT JUST TINKERD WITH….
ITS THE HOBAN ON TODAYS RULING ..WATCH THE BLATHER…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21431016
“Meanwhile Employment Minister Mark Hoban says emergency regulations are being tabled to address the Court’s comments regarding the schemes.”
EMERGENCY REGULATIONS???? WHAT IS THE PLANET ABOUT TO EXPLODE?? WTF?
I remember asking in 2008 that parliament have all night sittings to nationalise the banks- but not the debts piled up by the investments banksters. Nobody was interested then but when it comes to the marginalised, those with no voice in parliament, you can bet it will be all speed ahead into the next disaster.
CAIT SAID ” WE NEED TO HELP PEOPLE BACK TO WORK NOT PUNISH THEME” THE GOVT HAS DECIDED TO APPEAL….
how does this translate?
we are appealing for our right to PUNISH DENIGRATE EXPLOIT AND ABUSE
JOBSEEKERS AND USE LARGE SUMS OF TAXPAYERS MONEY TO GIVE TO OUR DONATORS AND CHUMS.
@bobchewie – They can’t hear themselves sounding less-than-appealing/more appalling.
& their hope and belief has been based on enough people not noticing the language they’re using (and/or vast majority not caring) but I’m wondering if that’s going to continue. It’s almost as though a kind of ‘magical thinking’ suddenly sounded like it could started looking see-through & sounded notably less convincing today. The semi-logic/not-meaningful rhetoric started to show its flaws. They’re tying themselves up in knots to make the ‘answers’ fit the questions they’ve chosen to ask in every case -(atos/work(forfree)/conditionality) that logically, a point should arrive where the made-to-fit (anti)’logic’ starts to unravel. Then if enough people raise doubts on grounds of logic, perhaps, rather than ‘fairness’ …
So many people have been certain beyond any knowing that sanctioning ‘is’ wrong – but without enough understanding/knowledge of the back story which has enabled it to become ‘normal’, have been re-signed. Today could be a gleam of hope – or is that wishful thinking? I’m still confused but going to sleep a bit more hopeful & wake up a bit less demoralised tomorrow anyway.
@Shirleynott this from de SUN…..Get a job? any job and get up and earn the extra cash. I am ill and in constant pain, but i work 3 days a week and claim nothing..so get out and get a job, it might not be the one you dreamed of but it would be a start.. As for it not being mandatory whats the point in having the back to work system then??
ve had this arguement with someone them saying its not fair when the people they are working with get a proper wage,well my point is that them other people getting the proper wage went out and got the job! these people just sit on there backsides and complain when there told they have to do summat for there benefits well so they should!,i personally think the back to work scheme is a great idea
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4475004/Unemployed-working-for-free-in-a-shop-is-not-slavery.html#ixzz2KigNrMnH
@bobchewie: Computer won’t let me go to that site … but it’s a numbers game isn’t it? Which kind of people are there more of – ‘goodies’ or ‘bad guys’?
(not sure if I already know the answer to this one – or not).
@shirleynott I think my favourite sun comment is the ‘so what ‘ one its a placement so meant to be unpaid grow up.
Sun readers are like mushrooms: need to be shut in the dark and have shit thrown over them
Apologies mushrooms. You are far more intelligent than sun readers.
My fave is the. she should work in poundland for free as its a placement which is unpaid. . Grow up.!
There are NO emergency regulations!
At this moment in time IDS and Hoban are running round the DWP like headless chickens deperately trying to come up with something to sustain the work programme so we all don’t get sent back to the Jobcentres until new rules and regulations are made! – some hope.
For now at least it looks like the work programme is finished in it’s current form.
Roots
The amount of benefit paid these days doesn’t even house and feed you.
It would be good if me and everyone else could use our pause button and avoid giving streams of running quips thats drowns out good posts with solid info that tends to get lost or at least nest replies.
do i have to go to ingeus appointment next week any advice ?
This is what were trying to find out.
Well that was as clear as mud! Just got back from the Jobcentre, I asked the signing lacky if she could clarify for me as to whether I am still required to attend the Work Programme in light of the new ruling by an High Court Judge that has quashed the Employment, Skills & Enterprise Regulations 2011, under which I was referred and mandated to attend the Work Programme. She didn’t have a clue what I was talking about. The lacky on the next desk chipped in his two-penneth and said “oh the rules have been re-written”. I asked when they had been re-written, and asked to see them in writing. He told me to write to the Jobcentre manager, but wouldn’t give me the Manager’s address. Then the Jobcentre Floor Manager came across to see what was to do, and I repeated it all over again. He then started to explain that the Court ruling applied to a different thing and was nothing to do with the Work Programme. When I interrupted and repeated that I was mandated under Regulations that have now been quashed, he asked if I didn’t want to attend the Work Programme. I replied that was not the point and that I require legal clarification on the matter, he told me to see a Solicitor. They then asked me to sign and got rid of me as soon as possible, and were decidedly touchy and unfriendly about the whole thing. I have also emailed my Work Coach at the Work Programme provider and asked for clarification on the matter, i.e. am I still mandated to attend, and if I don’t can my JSA still be sanctioned. I am awaiting her response. I think a letter to my MP is now in order…
Remembering the tsunami(s) of recent requests for clarification over the meaning/use of words such as ‘mandated’ relating to UJ accounts – any chance of real clarification on the day the of the ruling seems slim. Also, they might have misunderstood ‘quashed’ and thought you were asking them for something to drink while waiting for the ‘actual’ answer …
I have the same question – I’m due for a review at my WP next week. Does this ruling affect that in any way (although I expect it doesn’t…)?
Ask again the day before your appointment and hopefully things will be clearer.
@ joefias: “do i have to go to ingeus appointment next week any advice ?”
NO, you do not have to attend. It has been confirmed by my Work Programme provider, you cannot be sanctioned for non-attendance until new Regulations are in place. 🙂
Workfare is broken, but it can be mended. They are drafting new rules, and the majority not threatened by it will watch unconcerned until they realize that the withdrawal of means tested benefits is a tax on ALL incomes, but it is MASSIVE on low incomes – it DOES create a work disincentive. You will only kill workfare STONE dead when you get this message.
http://www.clivelord.wordpress.com
Does anyone know what constitutes mandatory work activity?
Click to access pg-part-p.pdf
clive Lord
How is a withdrawal of benefit a tax on all incomes? A withdrawal of benefits to those that do not need it and should not qualify for it, is not a tax on the rich, it is a withdrawal of benefits they were not entitled to in the first place because they are not needy enough.
The real needy are being penalized to give more to your friends Clive.
if someone tells me in ingeus i have to do unpaid work do i have to do it i dont really mind attending ingeus it helps minimumly..but unpaid work is a disgrace
@JEFIAS INGEUS ARE CRIMINALS ..
“That was Mark Hoban’s response to the Public Accounts Committee’s roasting of the DWP for the misery caused by Atos. The BBC reports it straightforwardly. Margaret Hodge put the blame on the DWP rather than on the company, saying that it regarded the appeals process as an inherent part of the system, when it was actually damaging vulnerable people. Hoban replied that they’d failed to recognise that changes had been made and that independent reports said that the whole thing was fundamentally sound. Mind you, according to a tweet by Jonty Olliff-Cooper, Hoban has described Jobcentres as “the last vestige of the command and control economy”, so are we to expect that they will soon be handed over for private profit? (JOC calls this comment “pretty fruity from a minister”, which must be public school speak for something I don’t understand.)”
PAYMENT BY RESULTS A DANGEROUS IDIOCY THAT MAKES STAFF TELL LIES….
http://www.guardian.co.uk/local-government-network/2013/feb/01/payment-results-staff-fictions
NEW REGULATIONS FOR EMPLOYMENT SCHEMES..NECESSARY AFTER COURT OF APPEAL RULING..
http://indusdelta.co.uk/story/new_regulations_employment_schemes_necessary_after_court_appeal_ruling/12204
Interesting, thanks. But I’m still uncertain if the re-writing of the Regulations applies only to the rules governing work placements, or if it applies to attendance of the Work Programme in general. I want to know if my JSA can still be sanctioned IF I don’t attend the Work Programme, and no one seems to know.
Jobseeker’s Allowance (Employment, Skills and Enterprise) Regulations 2011 were on the WP 05 letter the Jobcentre used to refer you to the work programme.
These are the regulations the court has ruled unlawful.
John
thanks for that reference to mwa which states for those who have not read it:
THE AIMS OF THE MANDATORY WORK ACTIVITY
1.7 mwa is intended to help customers move closer to the labour market,
enabling them to establish the disciplines and habits of working life. such as attending on time regularly, carrying out specific tasks and working under supervision WHILE DELIVERING A CONTRIBUTION TO THE LOCAL COMMUNITY????????
1.8 mwa is about giving some customers more support and helping them to do more to look for work.
That is just a small portion of what it entails. So working for the community under mwa is not forced labour? I think it is.
So why was mwa not included in the ruling?
When you sign for JSA do you sign up for mwa?
perhaps twinkle can enlighten us.
” The DWP will need to put its new regulations before parliament first, before jobseekers can be sanctioned for not complying with the requirements placed upon them in these cases. The Minister for Employment, Mark Hoban, has said the following:
‘The court has backed our right to require people to take part in programmes which will help get them into work. It’s ridiculous to say this is forced labour. This ruling ensures we can continue with these important schemes.
‘We are however disappointed and surprised at the court’s decision on our regulations. There needed to be flexibility so we could give people the right support to meet their needs and get them into a job. We do not agree with the court’s judgment and are seeking permission to appeal, but new regulations will be tabled to avoid any uncertainty.
‘Ultimately the judgment confirms that it is right that we expect people to take getting into work seriously if they want to claim benefits.’
Kirsty McHugh, Chief Executive of the Employment Related Services Association, said:
‘It is essential that the government gets its house in order. Any lack of certainty about the operation of employment programmes is detrimental to both welfare to work providers and to jobseekers. We believe fundamentally that good quality work experience placements are a good thing and can really help people in their drive to gain employment. However, these always need to be well managed and be a positive rather than punitive experience for jobseekers.’
She added: ‘We are also very pleased to hear in an article by Public Interest Lawyers that one of the claimants, Jamie Wilson, is participating on the Work Programme at present and is finding it a very positive experience.’
The news that new and more specific regulations will be created by the DWP might call into question the ‘black box’ approach at the heart of the Work Programme, which allows for providers to decide on how to provide appropriate personalised support.”
Yes he is enjoying so much he wished every one should be on the loverly work program as her nose grew longer and longer..
“The DWP will need to put its new regulations before parliament first, before jobseekers can be sanctioned for not complying with the requirements placed upon them in these cases.”
By “in these cases” does it mean regarding unpaid work placements, or complying in general?
It will take them ages to bring in the new regulations, as you say it has to be put on front of parliament (1st reading) then it has to be debated on twice I believe, then it has to be voted on, and all this has to be set to a paliamentary timetable – and that takes forever and a day.
@ obi wan kenobi apparently they will be ‘tabled’ so we dont need any scrutinity or media or MPs poking their noses in it thank you..
Damn – I would insist on it.
@OBI WAN KENOBI..I WONDER WHO WILL CHAIR THESE TABLES??
” Jamie Wilson
“I am really pleased that the Court has found in our favour. I refused to participate in the Community Action Programme (CAP) because I objected to being made to clean furniture for 30 hours a week for 6 months when I knew it wouldn’t help me find employment. I was given next to no information about the programme, I was told simply that I had to do whatever the DWP’s private contractor instructed me to do and that if I didn’t I may lose my benefits. Being without jobseeker’s allowance was very difficult for me but I don’t regret taking a stand as the CAP is a poorly thought out and poorly implemented scheme which even according to the DWP’s own statistics is not helping anyone get people back to work.
I am now participating in the Work Programme but it doesn’t involve me working for free, I have to meet an advisor every 3 to 4 weeks who helps me look for work. I will continue to attend these sessions with my adviser regardless of whether or not I am required to attend because I want to find a job and the sessions are very helpful.”
participating in WP but not work for Free…..hmmm
Taxpayers ‘facing multi-million-pound compensation bill’ as judges rule back-to-work schemes are unlawful in Poundland test case
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2277426/Poundland-ruling-Taxpayers-facing-multi-million-pound-compensation-judges-rule-work-schemes-unlawful.html#ixzz2Ki1uMAHc
F
YES THATS RIGHT THESE SCROUNGERS GOING TO COURT IS GOING TO COST EVERY PERSON IN THE COUNTRY A BLODYY GREAT BILL OF SEVERALL TRIILLION POUNDS AND PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO SELL THEIR HOMES AND OR SECOND HOMES AND SELL THEIR CHILDREN AND BE FORCED TO EAT DIRT MANAGED BY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANST WHO WILL RAPE YOUR BUDGIE AND PUT IT ON DVD AND SELL IT TO MAKE MONEY TO BUY DRUGS AND TURN ALL THE COUNTRIES CHILDREN INTO HEROIN ADDICTS..AND PROSTITUES…
and now the ftse index…
Try this “Daily Mail headline generator”…
http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail/
@scarecrow COULD THE UNEMPLOYED SCROUNGE OFF PENSIONERS?
how topical….
It’s brilliant, so is the David Blunkett generator on the site.
I got: WILL GAYS GIVE YOUR HOUSE DIABETES?
@something survived ten workfare facts
http://www.publicinterestlawyers.co.uk/news_details.php?id=231
Not sure I agree with it all but the stuff is nothing new, according to these lawyers CAP already started? It was supposed to come in after 2 years of Work Programme. This doesn’t make sense, or are some areas being piloted? (into a cliff)
Closer to 5 million if you count the disabled group and people not allowed benefits but not in work.
What about all those workshy 0-16’s scrounging away our tax money? Playing with their toys when they should be up a chimney or under a loom, or gutting fish?
What about all those scrounging 65-120’s sitting round waiting to die ? They should be using all their time (allocated breathing minutes) to work!
No namby-pamby Inca Empire jobs like collecting lice or herding guineapigs! Make the old build all our new Roads to Nowhere and Roads to Hell! They should work till they die and then bury eachother in the road.
What about those skiving, whiny women too busy to jobsearch because they are in the middle of giving birth? They should be working. Giving birth is the new acne. Make them field emergency services calls and do timeshare telesales while giving birth and being pervcammed online, 3 jobs in one. Chain them to the desk to incentivise them. Then force them to sell their babies. (Lowest bidder gets baby)
“However, lawyers say today’s ruling could mean thousands who had their benefits stripped for refusing to take part in the programme – designed to help the unemployed gain skills through training and unpaid work – could now reclaim them at a multi-million pound cost to the taxpayer!!!!!!!!! ”
doncha just luve the daily Heill it has to get a dig in dont it??
Yeah but it’s all good ‘cos besides the Government being attacked by the liberal left, they are also being attacked by the right-wing “I pay my taxes” brigade! They can’t continue to claim they’re doing all this shit to save money if they are being seen to throw taxpayers’ money down the drain with wanton disregard.
dwp just announced on bbc news “” we are insistant we will not pay any money back to people who have been sanctioned””
comment: ” his report seems skewed to make the Scheme look like a bad idea. She was claiming Job Seeker’s Allowance – the hint is in the name! And yet she was doing voluntary work instead! The scheme does not appear to be well thought out but what a lot of fuss about 2 weeks of work!”
look like a bad idea? ..duh !!!
Is this the same as MWA? I just finished a 4 week placement today, wow, cant believe its over. They made me dismantle televisions & drills etc with screwdrivers and put each part in different boxes. I never learnt anything new at all, nothing. I already know how to use a screwdriver, all I learnt was how the inside of televisions & drills etc looked for once… This wont help me get a job as I have other jobs on my CV and already know the feeling of work. The conditions were terrible as well, I became ill a few times. Pure bullshit if you ask me.
” A4e & JSA Sanction
slight dilemma and was wondering if anyone had any advice?
Daughter is unemployed and is required to attend A4e in addition to signing on. Generally, such appointments are usually non-productive they either tell her that she should of had a letter telling her it had been cancelled, or they just tell her to sign a chitty to declare that she is still out of work. I’ve lost count how many times this has happened.
Moving on, having attended A4e for approx 9 months now, today she received a letter from DWP stating that A4e had informed them that she failed to attend on 24th Jan this year, and therefore without good reason from her, her JSA would be sanction.
Her appointment was in fact on 22nd Jan, of which she attended. Anyway, just so happens that my daughter was due to attend A4e today whereupon she had it out with them. Turns out that the advisor she saw on the 22nd failed in her duty to inform my daughter that she needed to also attend on the 24th, and has indeed held her hands up to this. “I’m always doing it”, she told my daughter.
Nonetheless, what my daughter told me next has left me somewhat concerned. The A4e advisor whilst holding her hands up, has instructed my daughter to respond to the DWP by stating that she went for an interview at a ‘named’ establishment (a school) and that she had informed her A4e advisor. In return, when the DWP contact her, (the A4e advisor) she will say that this was the case. In other words lie.
I’ve expressed my concerns to my daughter and have said that if the DWP contact the named school, my daughter will be up sh*t creek without a paddle. In addition, what if the advisor turns turtle on her? Maybe I’m old fashioned, but am I naive in thinking that honesty is the best policy?
Thanks ”
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4431179
@pat… whaaaat? ALL THAT MONEY DISHED OUT TO WP PROVIDERS AND NOTHING BACK FOR THE JOBSEEKERS WHO HAD BEEN SANCTIONED..OH TYPICAL..
NO as IDS its all the fault of the SWP !!!!
The 6pm bbc news said nobody will be getting any payback in terms of cash settlements.
I’m beginning to wonder if these two are not red herrings set up by the government to present legal challenges to both the European and British courts.
The man that challenged having to work until 65 was a set up in the European courts to force women to work to that age before they could draw their pension, this smells the same to me.
Tory MP: unemployment benefits should be a loan!!!!!
http://liberalconspiracy.org/2012/11/26/tory-mp-wants-unemployment-benefits-to-become-a-repayable-loan/
Chris Skidmore, MP for Kingswood, and a member of the Free Enterprise Group, has an idea to ‘reform’ the welfare state.
For individuals aged under 25 who have not yet paid National Insurance contributions for a certain period, perhaps five years, unemployment benefit should be in the form of a repayable loan.
An unemployed teenager would still receive the same amount of cash as now, for example, but they would be expected to repay the value once in work.
Ahh. Otherwise known as keeping people in poverty even after they’ve started earning.
His own calculations show it would save barely £1.3bn a year. For that he’s willing to keep some people in poverty.
Other bright ideas:
People over 25 without a contribution record should be obliged to join the Work Programme or an alternative welfare-to-work scheme within three months of beginning to claim – but a record of contribution should delay this requirement incrementally.
Again – this has very little to do with masses of young people deliberately staying on benefits because they’re generous. Young people are on benefits because there aren’t enough jobs to go around.
If the Tories actually did something to grow the economy and create jobs this wouldn’t be an issue. Instead of that task they want to focus on cutting benefits.
Unemployed Person: I’ll have all my tax and NI contibutions back then.
@obi wan kenobi…yeah why not mayne this Tory will claim it back as business expenses
WHAT THE FUCK IS A WORK PLACEMENT PROGRAMME??
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/employment_support_schemes/fas_work_placement_programme.html
The Work Placement Programme (WPP) provides 9 months’ work experience for graduates and other unemployed people. There are 7,500 places in the private, public, community and voluntary sectors provided by FÁS employment services and programmes which were transferred to the Department of Social Protection in January 2012. The placements are for a minimum of 25 hours per week.
The programme is available to people getting most social welfare payments, including Jobseeker’s Allowance and Jobseeker’s Benefit. If you are getting a social welfare payment for at least 3 months, you may be able to keep it while on the programme – see ‘Keeping your social welfare payment’ below.
People who are not getting a social welfare payment, or who are on a payment for less than 3 months, are eligible to take part, but will not be get a social welfare payment while on the programme.
There are 2 streams in the Work Placement Programme (WPP). Stream 1 offers places for graduates and Stream 2 offers places for unemployed people, with a number of these places reserved for those aged under 34. If you are an unemployed graduate, you can apply for place in either stream. Placements are allocated to a region according to the number of people on the Live Register in that region and are allocated on a ‘first come, first served’ basis – see ‘How to apply’ below.
Stream 1
To be eligible for Stream 1 of the Work Placement Programme you must:
* Have been awarded a qualification at level 7 or higher on the National Framework of Qualifications.
* Be unemployed. You do not have to be getting a social welfare payment.
Stream 2
To be eligible for Stream 2 of the Work Placement Programme you must be unemployed. You do not have to be getting a social welfare payment.
You do not have to be a graduate, but graduates can apply.
Keeping your social welfare payment
If you are getting a qualifying social welfare payment for at least 3 months, you may be able to keep your payment while on the Work Placement Programme, subject to the approval of the Department of Social Protection (DSP). You must notify the Department that you are starting a placement, as this changes your status. Arrangements have been made to allow participants on the Work Placement Programme to sign on by post if they are claiming jobseeker’s payments. As WPP is a voluntary work placement no payment from the employer is permitted.
The qualifying payments are:
* Jobseeker’s Allowance
* Jobseeker’s Benefit
* Disability Allowance
* Blind Pension
* Invalidity Pension
* Illness Benefit
* One-Parent Family Payment
* Deserted Wife’s Benefit
* Widow’s, Widower’s or Surviving Civil Partner’s Pension
* Supplementary Welfare Allowance
If you are getting Disability Allowance, Blind Pension, Invalidity Pension or Illness Benefit you must apply to the Department of Social Protection for an exemption to start a placement on the Work Placement Programme.
If you are on Illness Benefit you must be getting a social welfare payment for 6 months before you can apply for the programme
Let’s see what new rules and reg’s the DWP comes up with, BUT AHHH! there’s that pesky Data Protection Act 1998 getting in the way again and now a court ruling as well!
This government loves to get people into debt all in the name of getting jobs that DO NOT EXIST, except that is for those who are part of the old boys network nationally, or the labour party locally – all wanting to be on the public sector payroll.
Time to start emphasising the governments failure on job creation, tax evasion and avoidance, increasing the welfare budget by paying useless wp providers.
Nobody should be forced to look for work that does not exist that is the job of job centre staff and we should be putting the onus on this.
All of these things should be highlighted by those who post on this site instead of emphasising the things that this government is using to beat the unemployed to death i.e. ever increasing job seeking to justify receiving benefits. It is as much slavery as working on the wp or mwa.
Take no notice of the trolls that visit this site to tell you your a lazy sod when you refuse to be bullied.
Get Britain Working
We want to get Britain working. We have set out a number of major welfare to work reforms which aim to fight poverty, support the most vulnerable and help people break the cycle of benefit dependency.
* We are making a transformational reform of the benefit system and introducing Universal Credit, to make work pay.
* We are modernising the way Jobcentre Plus delivers its services – giving more responsibility to Jobcentre Plus advisers to assess claimants’ individual needs and to offer the support they think most appropriate, including access to a number of Get Britain Working measures.
* The Work Programme replaces an array of employment schemes, pilots and projects , giving providers greater freedom to make judgements about how best to support jobseekers who need extra help.
* There is now a greater focus on partnership working – Jobcentre Plus, providers, local authorities, employers, and jobseekers working together to find new solutions to unemployment.
* There is now a focus on results: Jobcentre Plus staff will be more results-focussed, providers will be paid by results and incentivised to support the hardest to help.
* In response to the challenge of youth employment the Youth Contract will provide extra help to young unemployed people to get a job.
* Our mainstream provision is complemented by specialist disability employment programmes including Work Choice, Access to Work, which will continue to provide support for disabled people facing the most complex barriers to getting and keeping a job.
* There are also a number of measures in place to support older people in choosing to work longer.
* None of this will be done in a vacuum. Wider government will create an environment that encourages enterprise and sustained economic growth to help create sustained jobs and businesses.
THATS FIGHT POVERTY IS IT?
SORRY I THOUGHT YOU MEANT EXPLOIT IT….
none of this will be done in a vacuum cleaner
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/11346
SCRAP THE HUMAN RIGHTS ACT, DATA PROTECTION ACT ALONG WITH OTHER UNWORKABLE ACTS.
BLIMEY THEY HAVE 4 SIGNATURES…
How about an epetition to sack IDS, Hoban, Fraud and Grayling.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/33327
@OBI WAN KENOBI yeah there is a petition to kick out osbourne and scameron
BobChewie: I believe you should be paid a rate of say, £500 per diem by The IDS Gang for providing the most comprehensive info. on their convoluted policies.
This may sound like a joke, but, by Lenin, you don’t half put in a shift on our behalf, and I, for one thank you.
You care so much. And that is rare in this rotten world.
Bob, you are a good man.
Seconded.
Star turn.
Thirded, where would we all be without you Bob, and your stellar research … 🙂
sanctioning benefits is illegal for any given reason on the grounds that this is inhuman and that is what should have gone through the courts.
@guy fawkes..you raise an important issue…was the an impact assessment done on this?
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Is this true??
All those Jobcentre numbers that you need to phone for information about a job are 0845 phone numbers. Now most people claiming unemployment benefits have almost no money and all those 0845 numbers will add up to a hefty phone bill, no? They say people can go to Jobcentres to ring the number but then the travel money to the Jobcentre is not reimbursed either. I don’t understand how they expect people out of work to have enough money to travel up and down to Jobcentres to search for jobs and ring up the 0845 numbers if they either don’t have a land line or can’t afford to ring the number.
Also, those numbers they give out to change an appointment or cancel an appointment are all 0845 numbers as well. Shouldn’t numbers for job information be free phone numbers?
Yes, unbelievably, this has been the case for some time. Money-grabbing bastards.
When people go to our JCP they get told not to use the phones. They get told to go to a payphone to call the 0845 numbers. Or some get to talk to call centres. Who know nothing. If you can’t use/hear a phone, or understand the other person, how are you meant to call them? If you have no textphone? the phones are fixed to the wall at exactly the wrong height if you are short. Wheelchair users can’t use them at all. There is a tiny ledge you are meant to write on. It too is at a rubbish height. In the wrong place for wheelchair users, and no good if you’re extra tall. In my case I have to bend down (hurting my back, and causing my arms to go numb), or kneel on the floor (hurting my knees and then causing my legs to go numb), while reaching up above my head to write on the ledge, and can not then reach the phone. Leaflets on disability are too high up to reach.
I think chewie is working for u gov.
@gut fawkes me guv? like the cops in the sweeney ”oi guv”..naah me i am indeep pendant..
solicitor Tessa Gregory said today’s judgment meant nobody could be lawfully forced to participate in schemes like the Work Programme or Community Action Programme.
So can everyone on the Work Programme stop going?
That’s exactly what I am trying to establish (if you read back on the thread).
@bollox to the work prog. just stop going….same with jcp…the whole shebang..
I’m due in tomorrow mornin at 10. I’ll be askin the vacuous zombie about the new terms & conditions as mentioned by twinkle.
And in the unlikely event they have any idea what I’m on about, and they come across with somethin’ for me to sign, that’s when the fun starts 😀
“So can everyone on the Work Programme stop going?”
YES, I have had it confirmed by my Work Programme provider. You cannot be sanctioned for non-attendance until the new Regulations are in place.
@we all gonna get the IDS gang..awww how kind.!!!..the other interpretation is having too much time on my hands..or the fact where i live is deeply horrible a ‘home’ that housess everly mentally ill people that is run for profit so to escape that hellhole this is stuff i do…either from crappy handset or net cafe £1 per hour..
but it keeps me busy and i love (did i say that) doing the reasearch adn digging..its amazinfg what dark secrets you dan unearth…also the challenge of responding as quick as poss…or as johnny would put it..muliple posting screwing up his spam filter///LOL
But yeah i do care i am disabled and thats no fun…and i like helping others and i hate these tory cunts because they are just evil…ummm..
maybe who knows one day we will all meet up…
(wonder what johhny looks like –fat bald with a beard and a hamster called gerald i bet and not a stripling of urgent youth i bet)
It’d be funny if there were plotters and they all tried to goad the others into being the most radical and then they all met up and all of them were agents provocateurs.
Or if the picture fell off the wall… “You are the dead” said the telescreen.
That wan’t so funny any more.
Waking in jail Winston Smith finds O’Brien, “They got you too?” O’Brien says “They got me a long time ago”, and he turns out to be thought police, the bad guy and the torturer.
The eejits that want us out of Europe so they can fuck us even harder do not realise thst departure from the EU does not exempt us from the purview of The European Court of Human Rights, nor does it exempt us from the overview of the UN, nor does it negate the power of UK courts.
Unless, of course, The IDS Gang is intent on setting up a fully fledged Nazi state, as is looking more and more likely with every passing day.
” It Can’t Happen Here ” ?
It already is.
I fully expect that The IDS Gang will be planning to make an utter hell of Cait Reilly’s life.
I have witnessed the ‘dirty tricks’ mob in action in the past.
I sure hope she has strong support wrapped around her.
Yes, we may end up with no rights at all reduced to complete penury, servitude and terrible hardship and under the heel of a brutal, vain and venal ruling elite, but….if we get out of Europe at least there won’t be anymore immegrunts cummin ova ere to our cuntree to sponge of us, take our jobs and steal our wimmin. Well worth it mate!
Those number used to be free phone numbers this was just another ploy to either stop people signing on, phoning to complain about them etc.
Now they are forcing people to use the internet they can’t afford and that there is very little access to now that they are closing libraries.
Benefit SCROUNGERS better off benefits, destitute and dead says The Sun Editor and far-right editor of Staines shitty blog.
Anybody fancy a donner horse kebab?
If you want a horse-free meat, why not eat a tory?
Channel 4 News update:
The DWP have already re-written the rules and regs – will try to find more info.
They will have to be very careful how they re-write these regulations or they could end up being held in contempt of the court ruling.
@OBI WAN KENOBI SO NO DEBATE THEN NO DISCUSSION FUCK ALL..were the public consulted? nope..
He’s fucked up everything he’s got his grubby little Tory cunting hands on. Dave needs to sack the usless bastard.
Life is so hard for many of us, and instead of society wishing to help us, they would prefer The IDS Gang murder us.
That is the power of relentless lying Nazi propaganda at work via a compliant msm.
Look at how QT allowed IDS to sneeringly and contemptuously dismiss Owen Jones when confronted by his death-dealing policies: a Nazi at work.
And to their shame, the audience agreed with and applauded this deranged depraved sadistic inadequate little fascist’s enraged psychotic outburst.
In reference to the above video of qt ids spoke of those that were parked with no hope and no aspiration.
The said people are unparked with no hope and no outlet for their aspiration in the form of paid jobs, even if they were well enough to work.
I could weep, but I have no tears left to cry.
I have no mouth, but I must scream.
I have no hope.
This is the most awful so called ‘government’ in history.
Worldwide, we are known as The ConDemNation, the natural successor to the Nazis in Germany before the war, who started their murderous policies, not with the Jews, but the disabled.
There must be a concerted resistance, or we will all be in terrible trouble.
Homlessness, misery, hunger, disease and death everywhere.
dear all i am wondering if this will become my favourite quote..its from the SUN so no surprises there:
“yes i think she shud work at poundland for free as it is work experience after all and no 1 gets paid for that a placement is a placement it shudnt matter where it is just get on with it and stop complaining. GROW UP
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4475004/Unemployed-working-for-free-in-a-shop-is-not-slavery.html#ixzz2KiRwfTVX
On the day of the case at 7:28pm Channel 4 news report that new DWP legislation has already been written up (presumably on the back of a fag packet) to make workfare legal by tomorrow morning.
I AM SORRY BUT THIS IS TAKING THE FUCKING PISS..!!!!
” We have no intention of giving back money to anyone who has had their benefits removed because they refused to take getting into work seriously. DWP spokesman
TIME TO BOMBARD THE DWP WEBSITE AND TWEET EVERYTHINBG AT THEM GUYS !!!!!!!!
They will have to be very careful how they re-write these regulations or they could end up being held in contempt of the court ruling.
@obi wan kenobi..they should be behind bars…
Bare in mind that this time the regulations have to be cleared by parliament before they can be implemented, this is impossible to do by 9:00am in the morning.
@obi wan kenobi then they must have been pre written or adpated from a previous bit left out…some sort of kludge..
@obi wan kenobi are there any sightings of MPs scurrying along to HOC on tv or get anyone who can keep and eye out to see if they are..it will be an all nighter for gods sake..
Nothing on DWP website or on the BBC Paliament Channel yet.
@OBI WAN KENOBI THIS IS WHEN WE NEED PEOPLE ON THE GROUND WITH THEIR PHONE CAMS.. AND GOING LIVE WITH BAMBUSER…OR CHUCKING IT UP LICKITY SPLIT TO YOU TUBE..
“We have no intention of giving back money to anyone who has had their benefits removed because they refused to take getting into work seriously,” said a department for work and pensions spokesman. “We are currently considering a range of options to ensure this does not happen.”
NO BUT THEY SHUNTED A TON OF CASH AT POVERTY PIMP TRADE DIDNT THAT AND DID THAT DO ANY GOOD NO IT FUCKING DIDNT !!!
OR TO PUT IT ANOTHER WAY ” THEY REFUSED TO TKAE GETTING INTO WORK SERIUOUSLY”
http://www.channel4.com/news/poundland-worker-wins-forced-labour-appeal
Expanding Payment-by-Results
Plans to privatise the probation service, underpinned by a ‘payment-by-results’ mechanism, will only work if the prisons system is wrapped into the reforms and prison governors are directly incentivised to cooperate with the new private and voluntary providers who are due to take over probation services.
FERKING EEJITS
Some USA private jails are:
-Outdoor cages with no shelter or privacy
-Bootcamps with strict military discipline and forced military exercise/running
-Christian ones where you are forced to convert to Christianity
(etc)
Anyone seen this?
http://watchinga4e.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/those-tweets.html#comment-form
What a fuckin’ Godawful, toffee-nosed TWAT that inbred gobshite is. Not fit to wipe his own arse, nevermind tell anyone how to wipe theirs.
It’s about time he got his. I detest that sneerin’ fuckin imbecile (and those what bore him) with a passion. I sincerely hope misfortune of the physical, mental & financial kinds blight him for the rest of his days.
@YOSSERIAN HUGHES YEAH SOME OF US SAW THAT SHIT JONTY OLIIF WANKER…
Who is this Jonty Oliff-Cooper anyway? What exactly is his claim to fame besides being an upper-class twit with a stupid name?
Yosser, Feeling desparate again? Come in anytime. You can call me Dan. X
They will if we sack them.
The key words in this case are,
‘..the Secretary of State Iain Duncan Smith has acted beyond his powers..’
Who else has and in which departments.
There is also unfair deduction of earning orders ‘DEO’.
Child maintence is taken direct from earnings, like Tax and N.I. contributions.
2 things are wrong here:
An ex that may have caused untold misery and pain, & wont allow access to child(ren)- can take the pay that’s earned before the employee gets it.
DEO is printed on the payslip.
On most occassions arrears from non-payment of maintenance are added to calculated weekly maintenance, leaving the emotional and physically shattered working parent with less money than they can afford to live on.
“It’s Court Ordered, sorry..” says HR.
This is the 2nd thing wrong.
Who said it is okay to write into law, the CSA must threaten £1000 fines to employers that don’t comply with their requests for information.
The CSA currently have too much power with no proper scrutiny.
Is it okay to raise concerns to an employer, about an employees personal life by way of DEO?
YOU COULD NOT MAKE THIS UP PERLEEAASE…
The Daily Mail has been nominated for a string of honours at the prestigious annual Press Awards – the Oscars of British journalism.
Once again the paper has been nominated for Newspaper of the Year, the award it took home last year among an unprecedented nine accolades.
The inimitable Richard Littlejohn has been shortlisted as Columnist of the Year for his acclaimed twice-weekly column.
Richard Littlejohn
Robert Hardman
Expensive toilet paper.
The daily heil frequently make things up, bob.
I see ‘Jaunty’ tweeted that he found that personal hygiene class ‘fascinating’.
Wonder if that’s ‘cos he learned that normal folk use bogroll instead of the daily fail?
One odious gobshite, that.
That’s from Private Eye – surely?
@shirleynott sadly no. I found this post on another blog. In fact the spivey blog which has a lot of f and c words on it. It’s mostly about cruelty to children and animals and the sheer wickedness of it all.
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Heard on BBC news that the rules on workfare are apparently being re-written as we’re debating this here & those who’ve been sanctioned for not co-operating will NOT have those benefits paid to them.
By the way that Hoban cunt is on Newsnight right this minute..
@ss I would not do any as i am a job snob doncha know..
I think you mean the ones at that company? Well it would be better if they gave a choice as most WPP’s don’t give any.
garden centre as I am an ex gardener and like working with plants, now I’m less able than I was it’d be better and more job security to work indoors like a polytunnel, greenhouse, garden centre or plant nursery.
zoo as I could get to work in the reptile house sssssssssssssss!
refugee centre as I want to help asylum seekers (take over the country with peace and better food)
DAILY PAIL:
(Kicking the bucket from underneath the poor as they strangle to death)
-Asylum seekers sell your granny for soap
-Refugee cancer timebomb detonated by ‘Al-Qaeda on Sheppey’
-Immigrant witches are turning our swans lesbian
-Trade Unions gave my cat feline AIDS
-Green circuses abduct feral Guardian readers
-Water pollution gay plot to annex Mecca
-Kurdish beggar eats Volvo
-Gypsies stole my offshore lifestyle coach
-Traitor Warsi Paki Bitch Says: UK Too Racist
-Are school dinners turning our children foreign?
-Lefthanded people cause rising sea levels
-Muslim grandmothers ate my house
-Is curry gay?
-Witch steals biro in job centre: Burn her!
-HIV-carrying Swedish foreigners infest Tube
-Rats abduct IDS
-Lesbian Asylum Seeker encounters migratory newt
-Car crashes: Kurdish Gippo Plot to infect Britain with Marmalade
-Unemployed person caught reading job ads: Sanctioned!
-Iranian swans seen begging in Church
-Foreign foreigners are turning our foreigners foreign
-Dead monkey gets job running DWP: turns out to be IDS
-Tramps abduct virgin house
-Begging scroungers skiving thieving pikeys and should be shot
-Headlice Libyan Plot to give our Kids AIDS
-Romanian beggars are turning our grannies Muslim
-Socialist Swans Plot New Begging Campaign
-Drone Strikes Hit Homeless French Child
-Asylum Seekers Smuggled Handcuff Keys in Curry
-Traitor Gippoes eat Post Box
-Are lesbian biros turning our mosques Swedish?
-Kurdish witch abducts jelly Pope
-Homeless school dinners tax cars in church
-Ecofascist feminazi curries give your patio hepatitis
-Commie Shami C. Deported For Looking at Govt. in Wrong way (and Being a Paki)
-Are Somali ostriches turning our popes gay?
-post Boxes caught in homosexual plot to turn our grass lefthanded
-School dinner found to be dead Tory
-Are rising sea levels turming Cornwall gay?
-House prices plot to make swan Pope
-Undead Immigrants Ate My Third Breast
-Unemployed in Jobless Plot to keep Britain Broken
-Newts invent time travel and kill IDS
-Marmalade Socialists ban Underwear in Catholic Curry Begging Scandal
-Amputee gippo steals Lizzy Windsor’s Swan
-Lying Irish Beggars Group-Marry Communist Narwhal
-Workshy Dead Tramps Costing Broken Britain Millions
-Queer Candyfloss Given to Kids to Turn them Atheist
-Rabid Somalis Give Our Bankers Clap and Pox
-Black Swedish Jewish Lesbian Gives Birth To Illegitimate Communist in Mosque
-Old People Sold to Chinese Power Stations
-Scrounging Scroungers run out of things to Scrounge
-Japan’s Foxes poison our Churches
-Did climate change turn house prices gay?
-Dole Scum Smuggle Cheesecake into Work Programme
-Lesbian Quiche Parties are turning our children Autistic
-Albanian houses tax Western virgins
-Elvis’ Ghost sworn in as next Pope
-Workshy Candyfloss Mandated to Workfare
– Cannibal Hungarians Swap Baby for Ipod
-Is Quorn turning our corners gay?
-Atheist Gypsies Turned Cheesecake Somali
New Legislation here for Jobseeker’s Act 2013
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2013/9780111531921
Expected hours9.—(1) The expected number of hours per week in relation to a claimant for the purposes of determining any limitations on work search or work availability requirements is 35 unless some lesser number of hours applies in the claimant’s case under paragraph (2).
(2) The lesser number of hours referred to in paragraph (1) is—
(a)where—
(i)the claimant is a relevant carer, a responsible carer or a responsible foster parent; and
(ii)the Secretary of State is satisfied that the claimant has reasonable prospects of obtaining paid work,
the number of hours, being less than 35, that the Secretary of State considers is compatible with those caring responsibilities;
(b)where the claimant is a responsible carer or a responsible foster carer for a child under the age of 13, the number of hours that the Secretary of State considers is compatible with their caring responsibilities for the child during the child’s normal school hours (including the normal time it takes the child to travel to and from school); or
(c)where the claimant has a physical or mental impairment, the number of hours that the Secretary of State considers is reasonable in light of the impairment.
So there we have it; the 35 hours a week “jobsearch”
This is how the faily mail potrayed cait riley last year in a condending arrogant patronizing way. Well bollocks to you faily heil cos she won. Stuff that up your arse.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2086000/Cait-Reilly-Human-right-stack-shelves-Poundland-Shes-trolley.html
So they weren’t joking then.
@shirleynott we have a joke govt. Setting a. Bad joke on all of us.
how we supposed to prove 35 hours ?
someone ?
@Joe video it. Or diary it. With exact times. Flood them with paperwork.35 hours jobsearching means you are too busy to go on unpaid poxy workfare too.
Your not joe, this is welfare reform on top of welfare reform complete with sanctions until there is nothing left to reform. They are pushing people over the edge, they are fascist dictators who need to be taken out.
diary it as in write it down ? you could just write a load of bull ?
come on site, someone could write 35 hours of job search and you all paste and copy the same job search.
– maybe bob could do it in his downtime …. or he could draw up a rota?
@shirleynott you would need a template..
they cant make u join that ujm can they ? and monitor u through that ? i point blank refused to join that
My adviser put the squeeze on me yesterday to sign up to Universal Identity Theft Match. He gave me a leaflet that assured me that the site is ‘secure’ (bwahaha!) and ‘free!’ (woohoo!). He said I have to sign up before I see him again.
My adviser is a real piece of work. He is a jobsworth and a true believer in the gospel of the Inadequate Depraved Sadist. He believes the unemployed are just lazy scroungers (yes he told me that!) and really believes that there are plenty of jobs out there and all the unemployed need, is enough coercion (a kick up the bum he called it) to go and get them.
This guy has a real hard on for me, he’s just dying to sanction me, I can see it blazing in his ruthless beady eyes. I can’t afford to get sanctioned, but I don’t want to be a schmuck on wheels and deliver myself on a silver platter to the Universal Sanction Machine Scammers Paradise.
@R33 tell the cunt to fuck off and report him and go it alone fo your searches without the ujm
Tell him you’re aware other people have opted not to use the s(h)ite due to reservations about cookies/security and you’re unconfident about it but can show evidence from elsewhere – as they are being allowed to do?.
Any JCP/WP Agent advisor who says UJM is mandatory can be shown this recent DWP letter declarring it is not as yet compulsory.
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/140693/response/347764/attach/html/3/FOI%204776%20Response%20PDF.pdf.html
Thanks for the advice everyone. I’m most likely going to cite security concerns and agree to provide evidence from elsewhere.
u dont have to sign up to ujm defo..adviser has told me
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Reblogged this on HUMAN RIGHTS & POLITICAL JOURNAL.
Its well seen that whoever wrote the BBC article “Back-to-work scheme breached laws, says Court of Appeal” reads the Void 🙂
Link: Back-to-work scheme breached laws, says Court of Appeal
The human rights barrister Adam Wagner appeared on Newsnight yesterday evening to give his views on the judgment. He described the mandatory work imposed by the DWP as “voluntary”. When even a human rights “expert” can describe the coercion involved with benefits sanctions (“if you don’t do this unpaid work”) as “voluntary” I think we have reached the stage when words have no real meaning anymore. No wonder the Work Programme has been allowed to continue this far when experts like this, however well meaning, have no real grasp of the issues involved.
I feel it is encumbent on the work program providers to pay back all or some of the monies they received from dwp as they did nott produce the results they were paid for. That is what the contracts were for. The proceeds should then be paid to the claimants who had benefits removed and were mandated to work in these schemes. As I stated earlier and indeed cait reilly said whilst on these unpaid schemes she could have.done voluntary work or looked for employment .
There are two alarming aspects to this. firstly I came across an extract from govt document where it was quite clear that govt approach was to be totally hands off and let wpp run the so scheme how they wanted and with no scrutiny at all. I posted that quote and extract on previous void blogs. Secondly it was warned that expectations by govt were way too high. I posted that extract too. So when official the figures came in and were shockingly low the govt to save face claimed it was as expected. Wrong. The whole system was flawed from the outset.
In 2011 there were warning from civil society organisations warning about the payment by results system. That has come to pass as that is quite clear. The warnings went unheeded.
@Johnny Void and all. It appears that this govt is utterly obsessed with the disastrous payment by results scheme. I came across this recently from DoH.
Mental health services using payment by results. There is a PDF link on this page which i will scrutinise and ask advice from ppl I know in this profession.
If anyone else would like to contribute please feel free. I note that mental health is top of the list of medical problems when it comes to assessments.
http://www.dh.gov.uk/health/2013/01/mh-pbr/
Can you think of a private company that lends you money and asks for it back?
A bank you would think right?
How about Capita social fund.
I wonder if they will be in competition with banks.
Nazi Germany introduced the Munich Laws attacking the jews. Himmler and Goering revelled and enjoyed the resulting misery. In Britian in 2013, what do we now have !, yes , The Welfare Reform Act, brought about by this shit fuck of a government and implimented and ruthlessly enacted by that Knob Suck , Iain Duncan Smith. This fuck wit once stated “this quiet man is not for turning”, oh, you turned all right, into a reincarnation of Himmler. And Duncanshitfuck, stated that he was proud of what he had done and had changed peoples lives. Yes, you spiteful vindictive little shit, Himmler said the same thing about the concentration camps. Duncan Shitfuck has blood on his hands, and he loves it. He has said he does not care that people hate him so much. The absolute arogance of this lump of slime is just astounding. Just as an after thought, does any one actually like or love this cretin! ( beside his mother of course, after all who do you think showed him how to fuck others up the ass !).
Anyone reading this doing workfare ought to do a bad job, why does it matter there not paying you.
Pingback: Food Stamps Abandoned … For Now | the void
get rid of the scum thats turned britain into a multy race country alias camren and his robbing thieving lowlifes
ian duncun smith is a useless thick twat
ATOS are absolute CUNTS and don’t get me started on the job centre try getting me a job that actually pays !!!! I do 30 hours a week @ recycling plant for my JSA each week #slit my wrists now PLZ CAN ANY1 HELP if we don’t agree we are forced of the benefit system and into poverty and shitness wtf is going on people? We are being forced into this without a doubt where are our rights why is nothing being done I hope that Duncan smith guy dies of bowel cancer he deserves to have shit rubbed in his eyes wud like to see any1 of them FUCKZ live on 55pound a week !