Even the skiving Employment Minister Mark Hoban was forced to drag his lazy arse out of bed today to defend the workfare shambles which saw many of the government’s welfare to work schemes declared illegal.
Hoban claims that hastily rewritten regulations have been placed before Parliament which meet the requirements of today’s appeal court judgement. It remains to be seen whether he has been successful. In a truly shocking turn of events he has also insisted that no sanctioned benefits will be repaid despite today’s ruling declaring many workfare schemes illegal.
The pompous halfwit has only been in the job he does part time for five minutes and already thinks he’s above the law.
But it is the Secretary of State Iain Duncan Smith who has been shown to be out of control by this judgement. Hoban thinks he’s above the courts, but events have shown that IDS considers himself above the entire parliamentary democracy.
In his desperate rush to ram-raid mass workfare into law, Iain Duncan Smith neglected to develop the necessary regulations and instead assumed he could rewrite law on the hoof without any scrutiny from Parliament.
This breath-taking arrogance will come as no surprise to claimants and those fighting welfare reforms who have watched in astonishment as DWP Ministers have lied through their teeth about workfare, disappeared or re-written documents and attempted to dodge freedom of information requests.
In short, Iain Duncan Smith, and his then lacky Chris Grayling made two significant bodges. The first was in failing to provide adequate information about the nature of some workfare schemes to claimants and the consequences of failing to participate.
This means that any sanctions which were applied on those schemes were not legal and are likely to have to be repaid.
The second charge is far more serious. It appears Iain Duncan Smith attempted to use poorly worded legislation in the Jobseekers Allowance regulations as a kind of ‘enabling act’ giving him powers to mandate claimants to any scheme or activity he dreamed up. In a crude attempt to bypass Parliament, the Secretary of State failed to correctly set out regulations covering many workfare schemes instead relying on tricks of language to avoid scrutiny.*
In the words of one of the appeal judges:
“The Secretary of State cannot avoid the requirements of the Act in relation to schemes by calling them programmes. It would be absurd to conclude that a scheme is subject to the statutory requirements only if the Secretary of State decided to call it such.”
It seems that in Iain Duncan Smith’s rush to force claimants onto welfare he attempted to bend the law to the point it snapped. The end result is not just a huge embarrassment for the Government, but could still lead to millions being paid out in backdated benefits to those sanctioned
In any other job in the world, someone who bent the rules, got caught out and cost their organisation millions would be fired. It also raises the question of just how solid is the rest of the legislation on which welfare reform is based.
Iain Duncan Smith should be hounded from office. Instead bungling ministers are hastily trying to rush yet more legislation into law with the same inept arrogance that caused this farce in the first place.
Join the National Week of Action Against Workfare beginning on 18th March and help bring an end to forced labour for good: http://www.boycottworkfare.org/?p=1996
Visit consent.me.uk for the full ruling: http://consent.me.uk/2013/02/12/ruling/
* Basic summary – Original Job Seekers Allowance regulations which gave powers of sanction backed training or ‘back to work’ type schemes etc were worded so they could also be applied to any future ‘prescribed’ schemes as devised by ministers – prescribed meaning (as was judged today) properly explained and legislated for. IDS used this to assume he could set up any old scheme, including workfare, without legislating and just referring to the powers for ministers to set up future schemes as justification. Judges said don’t take the piss, you cant just make up regulations as you see fit that have big impacts on peoples lives without them being placed before parliament.
Mandatory Work Activity is not included in today’s judgement as it is based on different legislation.
Follow me on twitter @johnnyvoid
the void 
Excellent post. I’ve also written about this here: http://infantile-disorder.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/goverment-defies-court-to-reinstate.html
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If people were wrongly santioned then surely compensation and duress and hardship compensatuion is also due through the Law lets not make it millions but into the billions and the IDS will go as His name will b all over the News every day as a Dictator .
So do the hastily re-written regulations have to go before Parliament before they become valid? If so how long will this take? In the meantime are people still required to attend the Work Programme without fear of having JSA sanctioned? Or are the new Regulations valid with immediate effect?
Under unalterable old legislation any payouts cant be gotten out of by writing new legislation.TtHE JUDGES WOULD MAKE MINCEMEAT OUT OF THAT PISS TAKE- The law as it stands at the time is what is applicable-you cant get out of it. If you owe a parking fine and the street where you got it becomes free parking, you dont get off the fine.
Tomorrow will be interesting.
Perhaps I didn’t word that correctly – if I don’t attend will my JSA be sanctioned? Or have they somehow already covered their backs and everything remains the same?
“Of the numerous workfare schemes introduced by this government, only Mandatory Work Activity remains lawful. With immediate effect, those on the controversial Work Programme, Sector Based Work Academies, Community Action Programme or other workfare schemes may leave without risk of sanction. Sanctions currently in place must immediately be brought to an end.”
Source of above and full text of ruling at http://www.boycottworkfare.org/?p=2020
Thanks for that, but the Government are claiming they have put new Regulations in place and it is “business as usual” for the Work Programme, according to Mark Hoban on BBC’s Newsnight last night. I’m trying to find out if those new Regulations come in with immediate effect, as the Government seem to imply, or if they have to go through some Parliamentary process. We need definitive answers and no one is giving them. The wankers in my local Jobcentre wouldn’t tell me, and I’m still waiting for a reply from both my MP and my Work Coach at the Work Programme provider. If it’s not mandatory for me to attend at the moment then I bloody well won’t!
info
“…………And until new regulations are enacted with proper Parliamentary approval nobody can be compelled to participate on the schemes.”
I may be wrong but Parliamentary approval means a vote in Parliament.
“The Government initially indicated that it would seek a stay of the order quashing the Regulations “because of the ramifications of the decision.” The Government’s Counsel[2] submitted that the effect of the decision would be immediate: “the original requirement imposed on claimants such as Mr Wilson that they participate in a programme would be unlawful and they could not be required to participate further.” People would be free to leave placements if they did not wish to continue with them, and all sanctions currently imposed would have to be immediately brought to an end.”
Source: http://www.publicinterestlawyers.co.uk/news_details.php?id=298
I have received confirmation from my Work Programme provider (Interserve) that it is NOT mandatory to attend WP at the time being until this mess is sorted out and the Government get their amended regulations passed:
“You are correct, you are not legally required to attend in the interim period, however I can advise you that ESE Regulations will be re-written at the soonest available opportunity.”
“I would suggest that anyone genuinely interested in securing employment would utilise every opportunity available to do this, and if this involved visiting a Work Coach/Employment Advisor they would take this opportunity.
Those who don’t, who choose to avoid being proactive ,as you rightly say will not have their JSA sanctioned but may struggle to secure sustainable employment.”
Maybe I’ve had a bad experience . . . but when has attending the Work Programme ever been about helping you gain employment?
The new regulations will be pushed through on the negative procedure (i.e. without a vote). So unless there’s an objection from either side of the House it will immediately come into force unopposed.
Write to your MP immediately if you don’t want this to happen.
John McDonnell has written to the Chief Whip to table a debate and vote
Thanks for the clarification.
Dear Johnny, you might be interested to see what chaos our dear friend Chris Grayling is attempting following his move to the Ministry of Justice. See this response from Special Educational Needs Charity IPSEA to a recent consultation on changes to Judicial Review. If implemented this will hit children and young adults with disabilities and their ability to get justice for failures by local authorities. It is quite an obscure change but most people won’t appreciate the impact of this until it’s too late.
http://www.ipsea.org.uk/Apps/Content/News/?id=504
and linked PDF file
Click to access Response%20JUDICIAL%20REVIREW%20proposals%20for%20reform%20Jan%202013.pdf
“The shortening of time limits to bring JR would cut both ways; parents who
know their rights would need to act quickly in the case of local authority
default to bring enforcement proceedings; those who do not may find
themselves already ‘out of time’ by the time they seek legal advice. We fear
that the latter may be in the majority. This will in our experience
disproportionately affect those children with Special Educational Needs and
disabilities whose parents themselves have disabilities or English as an
additional language.
It cannot be effective access to justice to restrict parents’ ability to hold local
authorities to account for defaulting on their legal obligations on the basis that
they have been in breach for a long time.”
This cannot be right and will affect many other areas of law where people can use judicial reviews to defend their rights. Anyway please have a look and pass on.
Thanks and keep up the good work
Parent of a disabled child
…in other words, Grayling and co are fed up with losing Judicial Reviews all over the place so their answer is to try to move the goalposts.
FAO “Parent”
Yes, your comment about moving the goalposts is spot on!
Have a look at his post for yet another example, this time over the increasing number of ATOS appeals which are being lost by the Government:
http://kittyjones.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/735/
More for “Parent”
If the link to the wordpress post does not work, try googling the Words: “Clause 99 catch 22 the ESA mandatory second revision and appeals”
And also try this link for a vivid demonstration on how the Coalition is moving the goalpost on ATOS appeals. http://kittysjones.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/552733_435687149834152_88095195_n.jpg?w=600&h=389
Something wasnt right johnny when all those FOI requests were refused for spurious reasons. Even the case studies on.DWP website upon closer inspection turned out to be half truths or downright lies.
Off topic breaking news – apparently horsemeat has been found in Waitrose products,, explains why these tory types are foaming at the mouth, must the doses of “bute”!
Hoban is a psychopath. Only a psychopath would say its wrong to demonize atos. Like saying the nazis weren’t all that bad.
Yes, fair play for Beelzebub, stop demonising him
How this idiot has still got his job is a mystery. He’s such a complete fuck up his own party had no confidence in his leadership and told him to fuck off. The Work Programme has failed. Workfare is failing fast and the shoddy snooping webshite Universal Jobmatch will no doubt fail to. The vile twerp is like a turd that won’t flush.
They did try to get rid of IDS by offering him another post – he refused to budge.
Will somebody please find out what the labour partys reaction to this workfare decision. Will they support the governments new regulations.
Not an authoritative reply but as this all started under their watch I’d guess they’ll support it..
…………..or take the political cowardice route of abstaining.
That would be no surprise. MIllipede & his bunch neo-liberals are from the same background as the condems, totally out-of-touch with what life is really like for the vast majority of us.
I say we all boycott the 3 main parties and go for either UKIP,NHA or Independent they may well not get in on first or second election but it will weaken the 3 main parties and show that this nations citizens will not stand anymore of their bullshit.
2015 can be the year of a major swing elsewhere.
UKIP?
Info
“Wednesday, 20th January 2010
UKIP has today launched its welfare policy aimed at establishing a system of honest benefits for hard-working families, not just handouts for doing nothing.
UKIP’s plan is for a simpler, fairer benefits system that features: – New workfare scheme to put those on housing and other benefits to work in the community”
Source: http://www.ukip.org/content/latest-news/1419-ukip-launches-welfare-policy
I certainly won’t be voting for UKIP ! They are a bunch of ultra Right-wing lunatics. UKIP = failed Tory
I’ve been saying this for years but people only vote according to there class.
@something survived someone tried to put a petition together to ban workfare. Del tried to pre empty.this by claiming workfare or work for benefits didn’t exist citing the workfare being an American term ..we but look up comes a govt doc with work for benefits clearly on it. I.wonder if the author of that petition knows this.
This is why tory lawyers and councillors shouldn’t exist:
https://twitter.com/BenHouchen/status/301464097201995777
The fact that this moron is a Councillor (for a shit tory borough but still)
Benedict Brogan, Editor of The Conservative Pravda bullshitting and propagandizing for the inbred Tories:
Been reading the comments on that telegraph article and most of them are saying that the workfare scheme is wrong.
I think maybe people are starting to not believe the right wing propaganda anymore.
Which is a good thing.
A clear win surrounded by a fog of spin following it.. I shall be hitting the papers hard tomorrow in the comments section.. And seeing what me old mate rupes murdoch has to say on twitter. Expect him to be spouting drivel, he’s an old man and can’t help it!
Nice piece Johnny!
The quote below was taken from the telegraph.
‘However, a senior Government source said ministers will press ahead with the work programmes.
“We want to increase the use of mandatory activity and sanctions for the unemployed as the schemes work,” the source said.
“We are studying where the schemes can be extended and will make an announcement within weeks.
“The short, sharp shock is usually enough to get the work-shy back into employment so the plan is to extend the practice, not retreat in the wake of this odd court decision.” ‘
And to further quote:
‘Senior Government sources have labelled the court’s decision as “odd” and said they want to toughen up the rules despite the criticism from the judiciary.
Ministers are now expected to in the coming weeks outline plans to extend the use of sanctions and mandatory work for the unemployed.’
I don’t see things getting better anytime soon. I don’t see why it wasn’t a violation of human rights either. Is it OK to give away a person’s labour when they get no financial gain themselves while providing a financial incentive for the other party? A charity gets paid £25 a week to have a person do a work placement with them for 30 hours a week. How much do Poundland get? The person doing the free labour gets nothing while the company sacks its paid workforce. It adds insult to injury to pay the people who get the free labour for deigning to allow you to do work for them.
Money should be repaid to those effected by sanctions, plus all people forced illegally into free labour schemes should be compensated for being forced to take part in illegal activity under coercion. Those who went without benefits should also have compensation for the financial/physical and mental hardship endured when their benefits were stopped. Yet apparently IDS has no intention to pay anything at all. It’s interesting that they say they will choose to ignore the ‘odd’ decision made by the courts and flout the law of the land; what will be their penalty for doing so I wonder – or are they above the law?.
This was maybe the same whitehall source who said the government would make those receiving welfare “tap-dance” if needs be.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=owen+jones+tap-dance&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fvoices%2Fcommentators%2Fowen-jones-hatred-of-those-on-benefits-is-dangerously-out-of-control-7763793.html&ei=dbEbUbbdBsyr0AXC2YHwBA&usg=AFQjCNGW8upBdqccKtbpJ72LFv7qRqjUzA
OF COURSE THEY”RE GOING TO IGNORE THE COURTS AND THE LAW. THEY ARE FUCKING NAZIS! WHEN IS EVERYBODY GOING TO GET THAT THOUGH THEIR HEADS? THIS IS THE 21st. CENTURY EQUIVALENT OF GERMANY IN THE EARLY 1930’s HERE IN THE CONDEMNATION.
THE IDS GANG ARE NAZIS, NO MATTER WHAT CLEVER WORDS ARE USED TO DRESS UP THEIR MURDEROUS AND CRUEL POLICIES.
Closer to Latin American USA Neo-liberal puppet Dictators than Nazism (Sorry have to be perfectionist, not that it is really any better). With the Tories any one (disabled/women/muslim/gays etc) is welcomed so long as they are rich. The more inbreeded you are the better of course. Now if UKIP actually over take them in the future, that will be Neo-nazism.
People at large won’t give a fuck because the government engage in passive killing (intentional neglect) rather than large scale proactive killing (breaking/rounding people up to kill them). Not in sight so it doesn’t exist, most people see this government as merely rather shit and a joke rather than dangerous. I think the problem stems with the view “at least we aren’t Africa” because the UK is a superior democratic free country so nothing bad is going to happen to us, our government is filled with out of touch but good at their core men/women and the UK in a million years would never see our state descend into a brutal authoritarian dictatorship. They don’t actually believe the state could be or become a force for evil because that is what happens in other places,not here. Like with the ruling, they believe themselves above the law and they will get away with it as long as they can because there is nothing and no one to stop them from being above the law. It is very serious that we have a government that thinks the law is whatever they dictate but hardly anyone will give a shit because we are a good country with good principles. Probably know that already but that is the mind set that needs to be broken for real change to occur.
The reality is the UK and a big chunk of Europe could likely descend into becoming authoritarian regimes, even scandavian countries, and unless there is a reversal the future is a bloody police state. Fortunately and sadly, judging where these policies have been implement it is like 20 years of hell before revolution, then again chances of rebellion in the west could be higher as bigger drop in living standards quickly and the large inequality gap. Privatisation will mean weaknesses in the state infrastruture to protect itself, they will increasingly rely on mercenary groups but it still creates security holes. The biggest problem is technology (drone planes in particular- they must work on some kind of connection so maybe they could be hacked?) but humanity has always adapted.
Thank you for your informed reply. I call them ‘Nazis’ because it gets the picture across easily.
I know they come from The Chicago School of thinking that gave us Donald Rumsfeld, Karl Rove (‘Bush’s brain’) et al, and their overall principals are basically eugenics driven, hence the easy analogy with the nazis.
But we are going down a terrible road on which many are falling by the wayside….dead.
Now that’s a final solution if ever I saw one.
Today could be a good day to start making plans for a (working) time machine. Even if it means an hour or so each day away from other activities, (even seeking work/attending workfare) – there’ll soon be no need to devise a career plan anyway and ‘desperate times …’:-
“I grieved to think how brief the dream of the human intellect had been. It had committed suicide. It had set itself steadfastly towards comfort and ease, a balanced society with security and permanency as its watchword, it had attained its hopes — to come to this at last. Once, life and property must have reached almost absolute safety. The rich had been assured of his wealth and comfort, the toiler assured of his life and work. No doubt in that perfect world there had been no unemployed problem, no social question left unsolved. And a great quiet had followed.”
H. G. Wells (1895)
Which, in the broken-up language of 2013, now roughly translates as:-
“Everybody move along;’ there’s nothing to see here. Nobody works for nothing in this country (How many more times?!) Benefits are still being paid! (What is it with you … and your infernal sense of entitlement?!’) Nobody works for nothing; Nobody works for nothing. If I say it enough times, with my fingers in my ears, I can make it True.”
I. Shrunken Smith (13/02/2013)
– “The question had been discussed among us long before the Time Machine was made — thought but cheerlessly of the Advancement of Mankind, and saw in the growing pile of civilisation only a foolish heaping that must inevitably fall back upon and destroy its makers in the end.”
H.G. Wells (1895)
(The last word goes to the visionary man).
Wells’s last book was “Mind at the End of Its Tether” when all his dreams about humanity had faded. London is the epicentre of the black hole that attracts every fraudster, liar and scam politician. Sincerity has gone, it’s the reign of darkness and laughter animates Whitehall.
” blessed are you who weep now for you shall laugh”
He really must’ve had a time machine!
Hello! It’s already descended into authoritarianism here.
They are many things but one thing they aren’t are German Nazis. Hitler DID create REAL WORK for the milions of unemployed Germans. Something which is completely beyond the very limited abilities of evil, brain-dead, moronic cunts like Iain-Dumbo-Smith and that pathetic innumerate joke of a Chancellor.
The whole dreadful coalition should be sacked, new elections and ditch the right-wing.
Ditch the right wing? And replace with what exactly?. This all started under a Labour administration and UKIP are tories on steroids. Like guy fawkes I was sanctioned under Labour and my experience was similar re the appeals process.
There is no one left to vote for. Bring down the whole rotten system.
There is in Scotland and we have a chance to make a change come 2014 which, if we vote ‘yes’ it will have great repercussions throughout the remainder of the UK.
The only thing you can be sure of in Scotland is paying out for more useless windfarms and joining the EU. I find it funny the talk of independence while there is also talk of joining the crappy EU.
I’ll take it “you” refers to me personally as you appear to be replying to my post. The only thing I, personally, can be sure of is that death will arrive someday.
I think we’ll all pay for wind turbines whatever situation prevails.
Errr………..we’re already in the EU at the moment as part of the UK and any decision on future membership would be decided by the people of Scotland as it’s accepted by all parties that an independent Scotland would be accepted into the EU.
The talk is of self-determination. We all live in an interdependent world, no country lives in isolation, even North Korea.
Just to avoid confusion, there will be free elections in an independent Scotland with parties in favour of EU withdrawal, should there be any, standing for election.
By jove;Somebody else gets it!
This didn’t start under the Labour admin. Don’t blame Labour for what the Tory -led junta are doing. The shit we are in is down to them.
Don’t blaim Labour, eh!, not wholly but, in my opinion they bear some responsibility.
2003, Labour were in power and I was attached to a provider and forced onto an abusive work placement. Also,I received a two week sanction during the same attachment.. Did I imagine this episode? You may not like it but there you go.
Checked my paperwork, 2005, not 2003.
Labour introduced sanctions and introduced private sector companies in the JCP and also Lord Freud (last Government)
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I was sanctioned under Blair’s government and they flouted the rules on appeals, denying redress by way of courts for benefits that were sanctioned, which carried on into the coalitions governance.
Parliament makes the laws and with no opposition from any party you have no chance of compensation, and everything is denied in the name of the national interest.
Europe another tier of corrupt politicians who vote in their own self serving interests and that of the corporate class, not the masses interests and especially not the poorest.
You have to fight for what you want by taking it not asking their permission because you will never get it, history has shown this down the centuries.
I think you lot have too much time on your hands. Suggest being more productive in the economy rather than trying to prevent other people from getting on with their lives. If you want fairness, contribute to society. Fluffy revolution from your armchair is a little sad and a little desperate.
Oooooh…..get you in your perfect arrogance.
Twat.
@ findanothercause FUCK OFF! CUNT!
An out of touch citizen of which their are many, for you information many that are out of work do contribute to society of there own free will too, many on here no doubt work maybe night-time hours many are volunteers.
Yes I see some that do not contribute but in the main they are the minority and will never be completely eradicated and is simply an impossibility to do.
Fuck the economy and fuck you.
So where’s these job then?
They were at the robot factory, but the state got robots to do them for a couple of nuka colas at lunchtime.
So instead of taking stock and thinking they got it wrong and doing what any sensible person would do and try and make a system that works and not exploit, they come down even harder with more sanctions and more plans for more workfare and work program schemes?
It shows they hate the unemployed so much.
Yes but the sad truth is that many are now unemployed because of this workfare and the financial explosion of 2007 non of them are out of work by choice and I feel for every one of them because they are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
findanothercause
why don’t you do just that instead of lecturing to us – you non-productive time waster.
If they had a workfare scheme that actually worked (for both the person being sent on it and also the company hiring) then there would be no problem.
Somewhere where you are not exploited, actually learn something and possible decent training so you could use skills learned (if no actual job at end of it) for another chance at finding a job.
But no it is far easier to send someone off to stack shelves or pick up litter and be out of sight for 1 to 6 months and also offer tax breaks to the company hiring (to grease the palms for better trade).
I hope the judge at the supreme court is not allegedly in cahoots with the dwp and actually looks at everything that is brought before him/her and not just the dwp’s slant.
And makes a fair ruling.
Oh look a flock of pig-horses have flown by my window.
“Oh look a flock of pig-horses have flown by my window.”
They had better keep a low profile if they don’t want to end up in a value burger.
Let me be very clear – I will personally see to it that you lot of bone-idle, lazy, work-shy, scroungers are hauled into the Jobcentre EVERY FUCKING DAY!!!!
Free speech and all that, Johnny, but is it not time to consider banning the Minister for Work and Pensions from posting on this blog. I am sure I am not the only one sick and tired of this odious little twerps vile rants!
@Sick and Tired – I am sick and tired of the real one but I have to say this one makes me laugh.
You and everyone else had the right to free speech. Implementing that kind of censorship would make this site a joke! I find Iain Duncan Smith’s comments amusing and should be taken with a pinch of salt.
Are you offering free salt?
Yeah Pepper too 😉
Yeah, let him rant, it only goes to show what a complete and utter cunt he is!
In that case, won’t you have to pay us travelling expenses for every day that isn’t a signing day? How will that help to cut the benefits bill?
No, extract from an FOI.
“Under current rules, travelling expenses for attending the Jobcentre on a signing day are not paid, however attendance required on other days can have expenses paid at adviser discretion. Specific work search requirements for each claimant will be tailored to their circumstances, such as access to a computer, and the adviser will consider this and look forlocal access for the claimant. Where travel is required for the work search, travel expenses can be considered for payment at adviser discretion.”
Another FOI response appears to contradict this one.
Bet IBS is really throwing his toys out of the pram right now, heh heh. But the way I understood things, it was the wording on the workfarce notification letter that the court had issue with, and that workfarce did not contravene article 4 of the ECHR act? Government scribes are no doubt furiously re-writing the notification letter as I type
info
“The effect of the judgment is that all those people who have been sanctioned by having their jobseeker’s allowance withdrawn for non-compliance with the Back to Work Schemes affected will be entitled to reclaim their benefits. And until new regulations are enacted with proper Parliamentary approval nobody can be compelled to participate on the schemes.”
Source: http://www.publicinterestlawyers.co.uk/news_details.php?id=298
I read this to mean a parliamentary vote,
@ refusenik “there will be free elections in an independent Scotland with parties in favour of EU withdrawal, should there be any, standing for election” Yes you can keep telling yourself that. Hollyrood is not and will not be there for the Scottish people.
Would help if you replied in the relevant post.
“@ refusenik “there will be free elections in an independent Scotland with parties in favour of EU withdrawal, should there be any, standing for election” Yes you can keep telling yourself that. Hollyrood is not and will not be there for the Scottish people.”
Astonishing response, so Scotland wouldn’t be a democracy, please explain your reasoning.
Yeah well for some reason I couldn’t reply to the post so had no choice but to reply here. It’s not really all that astonishing is it when you have this unshaken belieif that you will have a say in Scotland and that you believe in democracy?
Your Hollyrood has already been proven inept. They could have amended the law to protect the Scottish and prevent those who can be evicted from their homes for not being able to afford that extra bedroom tax. Fat lot of good that will do people eh?
Here’s my original post from above to:
@Landless Peasant
“There is in Scotland and we have a chance to make a change come 2014 which, if we vote ‘yes’ it will have great repercussions throughout the remainder of the UK.”
.@TheAntagonist:
“……you have this unshaken belieif that you will have a say in Scotland and that you believe in democracy? ”
See my post above, “chance” implies hope, not “unshaken belief”. Democracy, such as it is, will always be limited when it involves decisions affecting more than a few people. It’s the system we’ve got and it aint changing anytime soon, FACT, so get used to it.
.@TheAntagonist:
“Your Hollyrood has already been proven inept”
I think it’s clear from my post and follow-up I’m discussing the future, not the present.
@TheAntagonist:
“They could have amended the law to protect the Scottish and prevent those who can be evicted from their homes for not being able to afford that extra bedroom tax. Fat lot of good that will do people eh?”
I’m not here to defend the present Holyrood incumbents’ actions. Future administrations will be free to make different policy decisions.
If you are thinkin about the future of Scottish then history usually dictates the future, so your scottish parliament is going to be a joke if it’s action thus far are anything to go by. Again I could not reply in the relevent post before you go harping on. As for your democracy, I will never get used to it and it shows how weak and lazy people are needing someone else to manage things for them. No wonder there are pieces of shit with nothing but contempt for people running the country.
@TheAntagonist
“If you are thinkin about the future of Scottish then history usually dictates the future,so your scottish parliament is going to be a joke if it’s action thus far are anything to go by.”
In Tony Blair’s words “no more powers than an English parish council”. The powers of the parliament are extremely limited at present, but will change if the vote goes ‘Yes’, then it will control welfare for example.
Is the refusal to sell off Scottish Water into private hands for private profit trivial?
Is the supply of 12 months relief re the changes in Council Tax Benefit due in April trivial?
@TheAntagonist
“Again I could not reply in the relevent post before you go harping on.”
I think it’s a four reply thing then no more so there won’t be a reply button on this post either.
@TheAntagonist
“As for your democracy, I will never get used to it………………”
If you’re resident in the UK then it’s no more my democracy than it’s yours. I’ve no choice but to accept the system we have. I have a suspicion that you have to too.
@TheAntagonist
“…..and it shows how weak and lazy people are needing someone else to manage things for them.”
And here was me thinking you felt some empathy for the people with concerns posting on this blog.
Are you totally self sufficient in all areas of life? eg money, dentistry, ill health……I could go on but I’m sure you get the point.
@TheAntagonist
“No wonder there are pieces of shit with nothing but contempt for people running the country.”
Ahhh… the weak and lazy are to blame (that has a familiar ring to it), but not you to blame, the strong and dynamic, who CAN effect change.
Again, apologies for replying here. Whilst it’s true I also live in a so called democarcy it doesn’t mean I agree with it and often ask in what way does this work? Who represents who, if most of the MP’s are rich cunts? I will watch this space as regards to your Scottish Indpendence and when it goes arse up then I will be back at you. To be honest Scotland should stay joined with England, after all it was a Scottish bloke that united both countries in the first place, so I dunno what the Scot’s are moaning about.
“A Scottish bloke united both countries”. It’s too early in the morning to go into detail but let’s all agree to treat this remark as the joke it is. Not quite as big a joke as England being ranked 4th in the FIFA world rankings though.
Iain Duncan Smith is a man of poor education and pedestrian intelligence (failing to achieve a thing as lowly as an undergraduate degree) who lied about his past in order to appear more erudite on an old CV before being exposed by Michael Crick and the BBC. He was the worst leader the Conservative Party ever had, although it must be admitted that shallow and superficial David Cameron, is catching him up and may actually overtake him in the awfulness stakes before the next general election. Such a delusional simpleton should never have been tasked with reforming the UK’s incredibly complex social security system from top to toe. Iain Duncan Smith is patently not up to such a herculean task lacking the intellect, expertise, competence, knowledge, and honesty to cope with such an undertaking as is becoming obvious to all and sundry, as poorly considered and pernicious policies like the “bedroom tax” and “universal credit” begin to tumble out of the sky and to crash and burn.
The outcome was inevitable from the start: idiots spawn idiocy whatever they do coupled with misery, poverty, and death when the idiot considered is Iain Duncan Smith, a man who would have to climb up a very long ladder before he could grasp the bottom rung of humanity in his sweaty, rugate blood-stained hands.
You can tell how much of a psychopath IDS is by how scared of him the psychopath Cameron is. Cameron told him to move to another department in the last reshuffle, IDS told Cameron to fuck off, Cameron slunk away.
Any remotely competant PM would sack IDS on the spot or wouldn’t have put him into the role in the first place.
Anyone with any knowlege of British poltics at all knows Mr Dumbo-Smith is a thick simpleton. To be brutally frank, this cretin shouldn’t even be a parliamentary private secretary (the lowest rank in the minsterial ladder) let alone a Secretary of State in one of the most complex and far-reaching government departments. That the overly privileged prick that is our unelected goon of a PM allowed him to be the Secretary of State is damming indictment on the PM’s own limited abilities.
And in the DWP Statement by Mark Hoban following this Important Judgment he still lies, How are they getting away with this?
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/newsroom/press-releases/2013/feb-2013/dwp022-13.shtml
That’s not lying per se – it’s just reorganising the wording a bit. Which is The Right Thing To Do.
The whole reason this has failed miserably is because it did not follow correct parliamentary procedure where was impact assessment and risk assessment in all of this?
It is the arrogance of this shambles of a government that is the most frustrating thing.
They are still blaming the unemployed for being unemployed 😦
The unemployed I feel for every one of them as the financial mess that lead to this is not their doing, they are stuck between a rock and a hard place and along with the doom and gloom this Government is creating every day it does nothing in helping them into work.
And the misery will extend to the low paid and part time workers with the launch of Universal Credit. You aint seen nothing yet.
They never expected the high court to rule against them & they never expected anyone unemployed to take them to court.
So now they are like a trapped animal and when you get a trapped animal they lash out and get dangerous.
I expect a very bad outcome in the coming weeks as they will now seek to punish.
I hope the supreme court judges see through the bullshit myself.
Yup supreme court and then no doubt EU Court
Like they never expected Disabled & Chronically Ill people to get organised and take them on. After all, we’re disabled, we don’t have lives, we’re stuck at home with no way to contact other people, no social networks, no support…
Hey, Tories, welcome to the 21st fucking Century!
Yeah, the’ve put 26 inch monitors on the new p.c.’s in the job centres so that the camera in the wall behind can catch claimnts on facebook..
I noticed usb ports.. could be handy for some counter spying software.
Perhaps we should encrypt there whole system and lock em out.
For attention of Johnny Void
Your attention is drawn to Clause 99 – which is a new Catch 22 for ATOS appeals victims.
Have a look at this link:
http://kittysjones.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/552733_435687149834152_88095195_n.jpg?w=600&h=389
Once again, the Government merely rewrites the rules and “moves the goalposts” whenever they suffer a (temporary) defeat!
Fuck this Nazi bastard!!
How long will it be until someone attempts to assassinate IDS?
This is a purely rhetorical, theoretical, hypothetical , speculative query instigated by thoughts of all those ” what if ” novels.
Des that render me legally safe? Or will The IDS Gang send out the goon squad to dungeonise me and treat me gestapo style?
They do like watching people die….we can all see that.
Hopefully he will be struck by lightening, and Number 10 will be demolished by an Asteroid, and Lord Fraud will shoot himself.
Does he ever dare show his ugly, demented face and visit the unemployed whilst they are on his schemes. One of the unemployed should plunge a knife into the evil cunt and rid the world of this moronic Catholic piece of shit.
Catholic? Who, IDS ? Freud is a Jew, but I suspect he’s also a Freemason. I’d have thought IDS was too, but if he’s Catholic he can’t be.
I tried to telepathically, but was unsuccessful unfortunately. 😦 Maybe if we all do it together in unison, our combined consciousness can do the job. 🙂
When baldy’s career in politics is over he will live surrounded by armed guards like T.B. does, except skint.
What is kind of ironic is that David Cameron wanted to replace Iain Duncan Smith because he thought he was too SOFT on benefit claimants! Cameron wanted even more swinging and deeper welfare cuts that IDS was willing to concede. I am NOT making this up! As bad as things are if IDS is replaced by a sock puppet things would be even WORSE. This is honestly the truth.
… replaced by someone like Liam Byrne 🙂
Many of the Tory old guard think Cameron is a Social Democrat.
New workfare regulations:
The Jobseekers Allowance (Schemes for Assisting Persons to Obtain Employment) Regulations 2013 (SI 2013/276)
Posted on February 13, 2013 by http://www.consent.me.uk
“The Jobseekers Allowance (Schemes for Assisting Persons to Obtain Employment) Regulations 2013 (SI 2013/276) are due to be published 14 February 2013 and will be available for download from legislation.gov.uk after 2:30 pm.”
Kind regards, Dawn Dean Service and Performance Manager Legislation Services Team legislation@nationalarchives.gsi.gov.uk +44 (0)20 8392 5215 The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 4DU
Background: Landmark workfare ruling, “govt acted unlawfully #workfare is quashed” (12/2/13)
http://consent.me.uk/2013/02/13/workfareregs/
The DWP now have to put these new regulations before parliament by 2:30pm tommorrow and they have to be approved.
Also they must not be in contempt of the high court ruling made on 12/02.13 or the DWP (IDS and Hoban) will be in a lot of legal trouble.
I have written a letter to the Queen hoping to draw her attendition to what her Govt’ment are doing and perscuting her subjects ie the disabled / terminally unemployed by these unacceptable re-forms & bedroom tax which only aimed at those on benefits and yet are given billions of tax payers money away in over seas aid and I have highlighted that this money should be used here in UK?, she may see it or not? But never the less who knows as we post on here that Govt’ment are already having work housing build as one would never put it pass what this Govt’ment are capable of?????
The Queen gives royal assent everyhing passed through parliament.
Mark Hoban happless on the BBC Newsnight interview 12.02.13 responding to the High Court Ruling.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21444649
Yeah, I watched it last night, and he says it’s “business as usual”, which leads me to think the new rules take immediate effect and we have no chance of avoiding Work Programme attendance.
When someone as stupid as Hoban is say’s ‘business as usual’ you can bet it’s anything but!
I have received confirmation from my Work Programme provider (Interserve) that it is NOT mandatory to attend WP at the time being until this mess is sorted out and the Government get their amended regulations passed:
“You are correct, you are not legally required to attend in the interim period, however I can advise you that ESE Regulations will be re-written at the soonest available opportunity.”
“I would suggest that anyone genuinely interested in securing employment would utilise every opportunity available to do this, and if this involved visiting a Work Coach/Employment Advisor they would take this opportunity.
Those who don’t, who choose to avoid being proactive ,as you rightly say will not have their JSA sanctioned but may struggle to secure sustainable employment.”
Absolutely shameful – and it’s obvious he know it.
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IDS and Hoban are in very serious trouble and have question’s to answer.
1: Why did they go behind the back of parliament?
2: Why did they introduce regulations without clearing them through parliament first?
3: Why have they lied to people on benefits regarding the fact that these workfare schemes unlawful?
4: Why didn’t they make policy for Private Provider’s instead of giving them a ‘black box’ approach?
There will be a lot more questions that will be put to them by The Work and Pension’s Committee, but IDS and Hoban won’t have any answers – instant dismissal.
Much of what they have been doing is based on lies and deceit introduced into a climate of fear that has been created deliberately by accomplices in the providers programme, amonst others. I have personally been pedalled bullshit by A4e staff about how I would become homeless if I was sanctioned for non attendance.
I have heard people more visibly vulnerable than me being told worse.
In job centres I have seen staff tell sanctioned people there H.Bens claim ends and they must go to the citizens advice to try to sort out a bed and breakfast or something. In 7 months, I have been to the finding and keeping jobs and c.v. course, the look for a job for 6 weeks course, and 4 weeks MWA.
i do whatever they ask. Do I after 30 years employment need to learn how to create a c.v.? Or look for a job? The activities arent about that, they are about making you feel terribly frightened and desperate.
Fortunately(depending how you look at it) I have been in situations
that make this seem mild but it doesnt excuse their behaviour.
The attempted infringement of the data protection act rights is just the tip.
Just nod, smile dont take any notice of threats.
Yes, I saw some poor girl in tears on one of them jobcentres phones desperately trying to get through to a “decision maker” and getting the run around saying she was about to be evicted because her housing benefit was being stopped because of a sanction. You could almost hear the sniggering on the other end of the line. The jobcentre staff who are inflicting this sort of suffering on fellow human beings are pure evil. You are argue the toss all you like as to whether you are a member of the PCS union or not. Not all claimants are aware of their rights or have access to site such as this. Jobcentre staff make me SICK!!
Could somebody please ask Johnny if he could change the title of the most current page to “F**k the Government, F**k the Courts, We’ll Beat Workfare on the Streets ” as the page is now blocked from thousands of public library computers due to filtering.
Reblogged this on HUMAN RIGHTS & POLITICAL JOURNAL.
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Interesting that the void may now be blocked from public funded computers, methinks. Do I smell fish?
They block everything apart from very useless Job sites it seems. You can’t over-ride the Browser Preferences either, or at least I couldn’t, was hoping to re-set the default Page to something a little more informative, truthful, representative, and perhaps enlightening to the endless succession of hapless uninformed victims that may view the computer following myself, once they can manage to get the decrepit computer to function.
Slightly Off Topic: On New Deal about 3 yrs ago the internet access was wide open, no blocks it seemed, but was monitored at first sight by the over-worked & disenchanted/delusional “Training Instructor”, besides being monitored on a regular basis by the “Head Training Instructor” (who said on first day; “Welcome to the course, I’m XXX the Head Training Instructor, this is not a training course, there is no training on this course…”). I still managed to discreetly create a Powerpoint movie and leave it running on a loop on full-screen, flashing the words “Arbeit Macht Frei”/OBEY/CONFORM/OR DIE/WELCOME TO NEW DEAL” in large letters on the screen, just my bit of fun, as well as leaving home-printed leaflets in the foyer & inside newspapers/dictionaries. I wound-up the staff constantly for the whole 3 months, I couldn’t help it, the place looked just like a concentration camp. 🙂
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Reblogged this on kickingthecat.
Everyone here is basically right: IDS is a lucky halfwit who proves the old adage that mediocrity rises to the top. I actually think some of you are doing him too much of a service in crediting him with some sort of ideology – as if this this clown could grasp anything even quasi-intellectual. No, everything bundled under ‘welfare reform’ is simply a plan to import wholesale the US welfare programme: even the word ‘welfare’ is an Americanism in this context.
All of it, from restricted purchase cards to workfare, is in operation in what is now by far the most unequal country in the OECD. IDS is a foaming-at-the mouth “Atlanticist” (remember that fake charity he was involved with that turned out to be a neo-liberal slush fund?) who spotted that the chief beneficiaries of this system in America are corporations and the politicans who do their bidding. For example, JP Morgan make huge profits from running the electronic food stamps over 60 million poor Americans are degradingly forced to use, despite its criminal banking activity that led to millions being impoverished in the first place. IDS wants to be part of the gravy train here and no doubt G4S, A4e, Ingeus and all the other gangsters are serving it up to him by the buckletload. Did I mention he was a thick, greedy vicious bastard?
Why are most tory women are thick slags/cunts?
https://twitter.com/polleetickled/status/302206288765546496
Is that what she said?
Did not watch it last night.
And what, pray tell, does being exploited in Poundland have to do with “getting on in life”? There are a great many people who would like to be paid a decent wage, preferable in exchange for doing something rewarding, interesting and worthwhile, so as to enable them to “get on in life”.
Those who work should be paid AT LEAST the minimum wage. Benefits have noting whatsoever to do with work or with wages.
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It’s genuinely very difficult trying to find really good dress clothes which aren’t going to cost the earth.
I had to bring my young boy to a wedding and reception a few months ago and
finding a boy’s suit turned out to be a total headache…in the end it was much easier and lots less costly to hire a boy’s
suit.
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i dearly love to have 3 minutes with this swine with a pick axe handle!!
You actually allow it to be seem to be very easy using your speech on the other hand locate this disorder being really an issue that I think I would personally in no way fully grasp. It seems way too complex and also large in my opinion. We’re looking in advance on the following send, I’m going to make an effort to purchase the hang on of the usb ports!