The Tories’ Big Lie on Tax Credit Cuts

tory-posterAccording to Iain Duncan Smith groupie and chief chinless twat at The Telegraph, Peter Oborne, it appears the Tories have watered down the benefit bashing campaign planned before Christmas.

Instead of the infamous sofa pic,  internet con man Grant Shapps is today unveiling the above lie which will be prominently displayed at locations across London.  Goebbels famously said the bigger the lie the more people will believe it.  Grant Shapps thinks the bigger the poster the more people will buy his bullshit.

What the poster doesn’t say is that today the Tories and their yellow lib dem lapdogs will be voting to cut benefits for working people on a low wage.

Labour have, as ever, missed a trick in this argument.  They could have argued that they supported a public sector pay freeze because they thought Tax Credits would protect low income workers.  Now Tax Credits are being cut this no longer applies.

It will be the gradual erosion of Housing Benefits, available to those in and out of work, that will cause the real damage however.  Today’s bill breaks the link between how much rents actually are, and how much Housing Benefit can be paid.  With rents soaring above inflation and Housing Benefit rises pegged at 1% this will only lead to yet more homelessness over the coming years.

Labour have not even mentioned this change that will in time price many benefit claimants out of the rental system completely.  It’s almost as if they don’t really give a shit.  And they don’t.  Today’s vote is about party politics and nothing else.  The Tories are lying quite openly about Osborne’s changes to benefits and Ed Milliband thinks he might score a few points by pointing it out.

Never forget, it was Labour that started the war on welfare and sowed the seeds for the scrounger/striver rhetoric that the Tories are utilising today.  They have just as much blood on their hands as Iain Duncan Smith and no amount of crocodile tears now at the damage they inflicted will change that.

Follow me on twitter @johnnyvoid

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99 responses to “The Tories’ Big Lie on Tax Credit Cuts

  1. May I take this opportunity to call Labour MP Tom Watson, a neo-liberal Tory placeman?

  2. I think we know by now as chewie and I have pointed out that they are all in it together when it comes to benefit bashing and how benefit reduction is going to affect people. What we would like to see is some constructive advice , campaigning or fund raising for the start of a new party – one that bashes the real lazy cows i.e. Women in top jobs in the public sector delegating work to her minions or is that Lazy bulls? it certainly is lazy bulls in the private sector who do not entertain women on the board of executives only as co executives i.e. their wives.

  3. Agree 100% 1% of nothing is nothing

  4. money to them is nowt we pay hteir bills so why have us on benefits when it could mean more for them or their friends but having those in power who never nown a days conflict of gas or eat is something thats got to be looked at and the rich shown the door but then does pigs l fly jeff3

  5. There would be plenty of money were it not for the tax avoidance fostered by the government. Few realise that while complaining about tax avoidance on the one hand, the government was busy gutting anti avoidance legislation on the other. (I’m referring to ‘territorial taxation’ rules passed by this government). No large company based in the UK now needs to pay corporation tax.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/RichardMurphyTax/videos?view=0

    • The rich are the greatest culprits of tax avoidance, there is no denying this fact and whilst they have all their wealth in overseas accounts it’s the working middle and lower classes of this country that get hit hardest and whilst they do this they are happy to turn the focus from their rich fat arses to those who are mentally and physically disabled along with unemployed and using that predictable propaganda line “Your pay is lighter in your paypacket because of the skivers on benefits”, to be quite frank.. they are hardly promoting a climate of good honest working people willing to work for a government that thinks so little of them and feeds off them like a parasite.

      The jobs are not there, we have far more unemployed than people might think, massaging of the figures and slave labour dressed up as working for your benefits (at below the minimum working wage) seeing as they have said no one on benefits should be better off than somebody in employment on the minimum working wage. Labour are just as much to blame for lighting the blue touchpaper to all this nonsense and this coalition have picked up and run with it. Of course i would doubt very much that Labour would have been so cruel as the tories in the methods of implementing these reforms.

      All this coalition have done is created a two-pole class system, upper class and lower class, ironically in this case the upper-class is the golden gutter and in the lower class is also this so-called working middle class who will never reach the top table, they have sold us all down the river without a paddle, people who voted tory should feel ashamed but they will not because in their minds they think this government are doing a great job, but in the end more than a few people will be feeling used, including those who think they are true blue but are looked down upon from those who they vote for at every election. I’m sick of the sight of these tory politicians, they have a typical look about them all, i can spot a tory MP and in many cases a tory supporter a mile away.

      One thing i do know is that if we cannot get this coalition out of power and hopefully before 2015 i suspect many people who love this country still may be thinking of leaving never to look back upon it again. They have already lost their identity here..born and bred, many in a time when the country pulled together and joined shoulder to shoulder with people to right the wrongs in protest actions, but these days many who live here have no roots in history, they don’t care about the country, all they want to do is eat piss and shit and have kids in their self imposed ghetto’s and that is but one reason and by no means the sole reason why this coalition gets away with what they do whilst many people look on, this coalition is undemocratic group of fascists and we have a prime minister in place purely by default, the very type we do not want under the current climate.

      • Immigrant bashing from you yet again. Stereotyping and scapegoating of the worst kind, that is on a par with the rhetoric the Tories use to persecute the unemployed.

        Will you not be satisfied until we have far-right fascist thugs hunting down immigrants and beating them in the streets like Golden Dawn is doing in Greece?

        • No one can really deny that mass immigration has lowered the standard of living.

          For instance there’s Car wash relay near to me. The owners are foreign (the former English owner sold it years ago) This business only employs foreigners. The place used to be reasonable quiet and well taken care of , staffed mainly by young locals — now its a noisy dirty tip: and why people go there I don’t know probably cheaper and certainly the only main competition are other car washing business owned and staffed exclusively by foreigners.
          And you can be sure the monies are mostly going back home, the only benefit the county gets is the Tax and as most of the money that’s exchanged is cash that’s probably way short, same with wages I’m sure.
          All they care about is making money to send home to buy a nice house and car, leaving this county in shambles.

          • Anecdotes used to justify demonising and scapegoating whole groups. Iain Duncan Smith would be proud.

            The majority of Tories are “white native Brits” and they are the worst thieves and vandals in the country, laying waste to whole communities while drinking champagne and laughing. So it seems being a native white Brit is no guarantee a person will feel any sense of obligation or loyalty to this country.

            • I think your find that the Tories and the other main political parties have been infiltrated for a long time –and are subversive;– thieves and traitors now .

            • Thank you R33. You seem to have noticed, as have I that there has been an increasing tendency to blame migrant workers for the ills of the country.

              @Jonathansharpe – of course migrant workers come here and work and send money home, that’s what migrant workers have always done, don’t forget that in the 70s and 80s many British builders went as migrant labour to Germany… and sent money home, lived in very cramped accomodation etc, in order to save more money. Was that wrong?.

              Your claim that the Tories and other main political parties have been ‘infiltrated’ is risible, and the kind of claim that comes from those conspiracy theory idiots the BNP, or maybe the less enlightened of UKIP, (though even the relatively enlightened of that party remain pretty stupid). Ordinary working people have no country in the sense of a nation state, we have our nationality in terms of language and culture, but in anything beyond that we have more in common with the ordinary workers you seem to despise than we have with the Tories. Or Labour come to that. The Tories are not thieves and traitors because the only people they’ve ever had any loyalty to is their own class, and that remains true. They only get into government because they have the ‘useful idiots’ who vote them in, such as the average Daily Mail reader who then wonders why they get screwed by the party they voted for.

            • sibrydionmawr
              “risible”
              Laugh if you want; your political party augments and class affiliations are increasing anachronisms, If its communist world you wanted look around— you practically have it, rather too late for theory – its happened.
              Plenty of useful idiots — you don’t have to read the Daily Mail to be one.

        • Steven2011@lavabit.com

          No, he has a valid point. The ONLY people who have ever really benefited from mass immigraton are the ultra-rich (ie the one percent) and the bosses of companies who can defer pay rises permanently or not pay wages at all (ie with illegal immigrants). Japan has near full employment and well-paid jobs and virtually no immigration. This isn’t just a co-incidence.

  6. They all want a piece of the billionaire pie that’ll be created by ending the benefits sytem altogether, which between them in stages is what they’re doing. Even if all the unemployed and sick/disabled were each fiddling hundreds of pounds a week it wouldn’t make any difference to the economy (except their immediately local ones, which would be helped a little by the extra money circulating in it). If IDS or any of them were concerned with the economy they’d be going after the bankers big-time and they’re not.

    • The “welfare pie”, it is going to end up in the pockets of the greedy bankers and the rich! They are coming for your welfare.

  7. People are so susceptible to sophistry, the British people will most likely fall for this cheap, nasty, deceitful campaign hook, line and sinker.

    I do despair.

    • No need to despair. People will only fall for this shit if means testing stays as the alternative in the back of their minds. I think of means testing as trapping people in poverty. The government are using the media to present it as offering skivers a life of Riley. Honestly, I’m on your side. I wish you guys would read the bits from ‘Dynamic Benefits (2009)
      http://www.centreforsocialjustice .org.uk
      that I have picked out in my blog on 28th Dec
      http://www.clivelord.wordpress.com
      IDS has offered the chance to silence this crap from a report he commissioned.

      • Read it, agree with it, and have shared the blog on social media, but how the fuck is this ever going to become a reality when it patently makes far too much sense…

  8. Totally agree but how do you alter a sheep’s perception that their fears are in fact reality and they have to face them or suffer the consequences and take us down with them

  9. You might want to fix that “Tory’s” in the headline.

  10. @johnny void i see that what families fear if they end up on the streets is their children taken away and put in care homes. And sadly we’ve seen what happens to children in care homes haven’t we ?

  11. As these adverts have surely been procured on a commercial basis, as opposed to being part of the guaranteed communication during elections, if you see one of these go up anywhere, consider filing an immediate complaint with the ASA.

  12. Did you see that nonce landlord who forced that fifteen yr old girl to have sex with him in order to pay her rent

    • something survived...

      I don’t know of this case. That stinks. She ought to bite it off and then he has to explain in hospital how it got bitten off.
      I know of lots of dodgy landlords, and on one occasion last year my landlord attacked me but there’s nothing I can do about it.
      Last autumn some of my friends were harrassed by their landlord as he found out they are gay. (House share of boys and girls).
      A major local landlord has a scam going where he gets his junkie son to break in and steal everyone’s stuff, then the landlord gives each £100 but stops them reporting it, though their losses are thousands. He’s a local politician.

  13. Pingback: Housing cuts IDS gets his mansion free | Atos Victims Group News

  14. Tories = landed gentry, aristocracy, wannabees.
    Labour = I Can’t Believe They’re Not Tories
    LibDems = Tory Poodles
    Ukip = Rabid Tories
    All with assorted psychopaths, sociopaths and conmen liberally sprinkled amongst them, murdering for fun & profit under the guise of ‘responsible citizens’.
    The criminal class & the political class are one and the same.

    • something survived...

      AFAIK, Labour have been tories at least since they ditched Clause 4. Probably since they scrapped being anti-nuclear.

  15. Can't Pay the Rent

    Today’s bill breaks the link between how much rents actually are, and how much Housing Benefit can be paid. With rents soaring above inflation and Housing Benefit rises pegged at 1% this will only lead to yet more homelessness over the coming years.

    This is seriously going to fuck up tenants! Rents round here go up by CPI or RPI (which ever is highest), + 3-4% + some random percentage, and this is a “social landlord” – private landlord rent increases are even more brutal. Pegging the increase at 1% is a sure-fire road to eviction. Tenants are just going to reach a tipping point when the cannot, just cannot pay the rent. Expect homelessness rates to soar!

    • That is the whole point of the exercise – TO FUCK UP PEOPLE!!

    • The fascists keep saying that we have to compete with India and China in the global race (to the bottom). Since they are determined to turn Britain into a Third World country, they won’t stop slashing housing benefit for the poor until we have shanty towns here as well.

      • Councils are already considering using shipping containers to house homeless people.
        http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10078665.Shipping_containers_to_help_house_homeless/

        When I visited China in the early 1990′s families were being housed in wire cages similar to those used for transporting animals. They were piled up against the side of the factory wall. It puts me in mind of the original Planet of the Apes film and how human beings had reduced themselves to the level they treated other creatures. “Paved paradise, and put up a parking lot.”

        • Would that be against the inside or the outside of the factory wall?

          • Outside the factory walls. They used sheets to provide some form of privacy but it must have been awful during cold weather. In those days the average wage for a a factory worker was around $5USD/ week. It was so low that a factory would quote the bill of material price and ignore labour costs in a quotation because it wasn’t significant. Things are no doubt better now but abject poverty is still a big issue for many in China. All the billionaires who have made their fortune from China have done so on the back of poor peoples labour.

            • The thought of being able to house British workers in wire cages outside would make IDS cum in his pants.

            • If you let them do it, R33, you fucking deserve it.

            • All the wealthy anywhere, (except the odd Lottery winner) has made their fortune off the backs of workers somewhere, either that or just blatantly stealing the wealth as is the case with the huge titled landowning families. There is no way of becoming wealthy honestly, except of course, if you win the Lottery, and most of us stand no chance of that!

            • “If you let them do it, R33, you fucking deserve it.”

              What do you propose I do to stop them? I’m not Flash Gordon you know.

          • Was it Miki or someone who kept telling us to “Boil the Oil”? Resist however you can

            • “All the wealthy anywhere, (except the odd Lottery winner) has made their fortune off the backs of workers somewhere,”
              True, but then it has never bothered me about how people bring about their own ruin by piling up wealth so long as it never reached the stage when the “little people” couldn’t obtain gainful/honest employment, feed and educate their family in the security of a basic home with a health service in times of sickness.

              Basic checks and stop-guards at times have limited the scope of unadulterated greed bringing ruin to the ordinary person but they are in the process of being dismantled today by lying politicians who are not guided by any principles of common good but rather are driven by self interest in the cosy world of Westminster where they want for little . I’m not interested in their fake “left” and “right” partitions but what is right and wrong.

              They would have people believe that their is no alternative to a “free” market competitive model in which workers have to co-operate in driving down their wages because they have no power and influence over the political/money elite. This is nonsense. The industrial base of the country, that which generated soo much employment, was destroyed by the money worshippers who had Thatcher as their cruel goddess and whose children, who now run the country, were born without a heart.

              There was once anti-dumping import duties that used to be applied, (perhaps they still exist in paper) that were meant to stop the below cost dumping of goods in the local market that destroyed local jobs and industry. I’m not advocating a form of protectionism that once was used by the rich to defend their local monoplies and rip-off of their own people. A poor person should not be denied the ability to sell their labour to richer countries but what has happened is that the profits of the poor persons labour has landed into the pockets of the rich in China, India, and this country who couldn’t care less about social responsibility.

              Balancing import duties should be applied to goods that have been manufactured with labour at exploitative labour rates so that it is in the interest of the manufacturer/importer to see that people who produce the goods are paid a decent wage. Punitive import duties would be pegged as a positive inducement to pay decent wages. No doubt the ardent “free” market fanatics will say that it couldn never be adminsitrated. Wrong. I worked for years with importers who had to have signed certificates from independent factory inspectors, with a reputation to defend, that stated the goods being shipped conformed to certain standards before it left the factory. Billions of dollars of goods are shipped each day using schemes such as this and it would be a small matter to introduce selective import duties based on the labour costs involved in production of those goods.

    • Anyone know the exact figure for how much public money gets trousered by private landlords renting to HB claimants? We need Rent cap, not benefit cap; and secure tenancies, not 3mons and we’ll see how we go.

      Property is theft.

      • How about we demand a return of the system of Fair Rents that existed up until 1988? – though this would have to go hand in hand with the compulsory takeover of housing by local authorities if it is left empty without good reason for any extensive period, say 3 months. This would be needed as there is a tendency for landlords to just leave property empty if they can’t get the rents they want.

  16. Labour created the increase in welfare with tax credits and caused the need for reductions to those that really need it. In some cases those earning 60k were still in receipt of tax credits mainly for housing costs.
    Two income families working were still getting tax credits I know this is true because my own daughter who has 3 part-time jobs and the father of her 2 children who worked full-time were still getting tax credits and their mortgage repayments were kept low by quantative easing.

    Single parents and single people on the other hand who only have one income either pt or full time do not get the equivalent amount in tax credits which just put them above benefit levels. None are having their benefits reduced to the extent that those who have to pay bedroom tax are , which I know includes some of those in work and on tax credits, but tax credits were more generous to the rich than the poor and do nothing except subsidize low wages and greedy landlords.

  17. John
    You don’t drive a big yellow taxi do you? With the amount of empty properties there should be no need for containers to house anyone. People are FINANCIALLY being forced out of their homes not that there are no homes around for them to go to, and that’s because of greedy landlords and that includes the social housing landlords who are to increase their rents by 40%,. Don’t look to any politician to create jobs, but perhaps the resignation of Lord Strathclyde to move into the private sector is an indication that the public/private sector may soon start recruiting on a cheap labour basis now that they have sufficiently reduced welfare into starving people into cheap labour. As someone commented if the political class and their secretaries , analysts and civil servants who do their work for them were all put on the minimum wage things might change for the better for the low paid, and they would want more in the way of wage rises not tax cuts. Tax cuts only benefit the rich.

    • The line which really chimes with me from Joni’s song is “Don’t it always seem to go That you don’t know what you’ve got til its gone”
      People who are in jobs and are managing the bills just don’t get it. Empathy for most only comes with experience. They don’t realise that the people they are condemning as skivers etc, could be themselves in the not to distant future and only then will they realise what they have given up through the lying propoganda of the politicians and their media – and I now include the BBC in the latter.

  18. All the billionaires in China are from Hong kong when Britain had custody of it.

    • I heard a Tory ignoramus (I don’t know if he was in the Labour or conservative party) mouthing off on television recently about how Hong Kong could be a model for our country to emulate. I cringed because I was heavily involved at one time with Hong Kong companies and all the wealth that has built the opulent Cathedrals of Consumerism that are called shopping arcades in Hong Kong was built directly on the back of $5USD/Week wages of the poor people in China. What the dunderhead was really saying: “lets reduce our labour costs to what prevailed in China so that we can live as the elite in Hong Kong live. If all you peasents will give up decent hospitals, education, social security and live on the most basic foods possible then we can stand as proud as the high rise buildings in Hong Kong”

  19. Pingback: The Tory’s Big Lie on Tax Credit Cuts | Welfare, Disability, Politics and People's Right's | Scoop.it

  20. I’ve just the torygraph article & I’m confused. Are there two Ian Duncan Smiths in the current Cabinet? One kindly & benevolent with the best interests of the unemployed at heart & the other a psychopathic bully who’d happily kick the crap out of the jobless, sick & disabled. The IDS described in the article is most certainly NOT the one who sneered & snarled his way through Question Time a few weeks ago

  21. I’m not sure how true it was, but watching the parliamentary debate on the benefit cap, it was stated that in the 2005 and 2010 elections labour increased tax credits. Since they were introduced to buy votes from those on middle incomes, who had bagged the public sector jobs they had created, I can well believe it, even now Lyam Byrne is only interested in benefit cuts to those in work and on tax credits the unemployed’s vote means nothing to them, they know most will not vote for what has become an extension of the tory party.

  22. This could backfire on Tories and they will regret it . Ppl who thought they had safe jobs get sacked then demonised . They won’t forget or forgive . Working ppl are like a club if one or two get hurt then others feel it and feel insecure too they don’t spend . Could this track change be like hitlers Russia ?

    • The tories don’t give a stuff whether it backfires or not, they won’t stop until they’re ground all of us into the dirt.

  23. On BBC’s morning tv they showed local shopkeepers from somewhere? who had created local currency vouchers to spend in their shops, were they trying to capitalise on the proposed nightmare of vouchers instead of cash, for those on benefits. As for those that say their landlord is from the political sector, just look at mp’s and councillors private interests stated on their profiles on council websites and you will find most have more than one property that they are probably renting out.

  24. shit private sector nurse

    Everytime a disabled person dies harass this nutty little UKIP fruitcake/threaten her for damages and libel.

  25. Of course it is wrong to cap benefits by 1% by changing from rpi to cpi but it is equally wrong that tax credits should be paid out of the welfare budget, when they are only shoring up greedy landlords and greedy employers. The basics for those on unemployment and sickness benefits such as housing, income rates etc should not be capped at all, especially as those in work who will see a £165 averge decrease because of this bill will also get on average £124 tax cut so only those reliant totally on benefits will feel this cut. It also states that cpi does not take into account housing costs??
    See thisismoney.co.uk on rpi/cpi what does it mean.

  26. I feel absolutely sickened by this government and the lapdogs. I want a job, am looking all the time for a job, applied for hundreds of vacancies but don’t get replies. I am struggling to pay bills, have not had heating on in this house for myself or my son. Things are going to get worse, and I am villified for the life I have which is SHIT, beleive me. Now thanks to the condems I will probably lose my house and son – great I would be better off dead. Just what these Nazi condems want.

    • @Lone Jones – Don’t give them the satisfaction. It’s theft and common assault by another name – in no way can the casting of Nasturtiums towards anyone who’s out of work be justified. At least, tonight – unusually, there have been some on the news finally asking ‘uncomfortable’ questions directly to the hit-and-runsters about the real effects of the 1% C(r)AP bill. There were even some interviews with ‘real people’ who are telling their stories in very simple and stark terms.

      (Followed straight after by an item saying that one third of children in Blackpool “live in poverty” and so free breakfasts have been introduced in schools).

      All of a sudden it looks as though even some of those less-affected, not generally very interested, & who wear 2 sets of blinkers to go outside, are realising ‘something’s not quite right’ & asking one or 2 questions, about what they’re hearing/reading in the news. Everything can’t keep being shoved under the carpet (food banks keep hitting the news) & now the net has spread still wider it might start to get harder to think “It’s just affecting those people over there, not us over here”. Extreme scenarios like the one you’re describing that could happen, are becoming a regular feature of some reports/giving people’s accounts of their concerns. Maybe (?) ‘they’ could soon be on dodgy ground for having pushed though such extreme measures. (For me its not ‘if’ but ‘when’ the tide starts to turn and whether it will be ‘in time’ before too many people lose too much more than they already have done).

      Probably those of us who are responsible for someone else’s as well as our own well being need to try extra hard to stay angry as much as we can (whatever that takes personally) and not overwhelmed by the very real feeling of being ‘under the cosh’ – (which is exactly how I feel). Just recently, I’ve started being more open & honest about how things even sometimes with people I wouldn’t necessarily have risked it with. They must hate & fear me,.but unusually, several times I’ve been surprised that they are further along the road towards feeling angry and horrified themselves than I would have thought. Quite often they have seen what’s going on (under their noses, after all) and aren’t ‘for’ the sustained attack on – just about everyone who’s not well off. So sometimes, there’s more (moral) support out there than might be obvious – it’s just not very often expressed – people can sometimes seem to be very insular (depending) – til you ask them what they think.

      It’s easy enough to feel angry & then drained, but the other kind of anger that can be so much more useful – the one you feel after watching IDS & co laughing on their bench as they try to wreck as many lives per minute as they can …

      I’m sorry this is a long reply – it’s just been one of those days …

  27. Oh, how I fugin despair.Endless parliaments, of endless wankers.
    But still , in general, you peops BELIEVE there is a party
    ‘For You’ _
    Someone bashes you. The others didnt_
    Its a game. The rules read;
    connive ten yrs of power to upholster the roost with silk ,
    then live under the protection of special police officers spending taxes in sharm el sheik forever.
    Do you think Tony B.Liar or fatty jowls Prescott gives a FLYING FUCK about your predicament? Well? You honestly believe you can VOTE your way out? SOMEBODY CARES? Nobody gives a toss.
    You spent most of your lives voting for ‘your party’
    only to find out party politics is a racket,unless you havent worked it out yet. You see these arse holes cameron and Clegg? neither of em have ever had a job.
    A J.O.B.
    Getting the picture?
    These snot nosed pricks, of the same standing as any other filth Party mp are ruling your life BECAUSE YOU VOTED FOR A PARTY!
    If you havent the fugin brains to vote for a sensible independant from your neck of the woods its your own bloody fault.
    Any vote for a party is one for the nose in trough crooked established, and even a schoolboy can see it.
    Ignore / sack the scum.
    And stop whingeing about it until you pluck up the bloody courage to think before you vote.
    Apathetic bloody race. I’ve no sympathy !

  28. Lure.

    I personally would like to see parliament full of independents also fighting it out amongst each other, but when there are no independents standing in local or national elections your a bit stuck aren’t you. The fact that the largest vote came from the none voters shows people are not convinced by prevailing parties,and why It would be a good idea to start a new party or movement because things are not as cut and dried as you think and people can do without your insults, causing others to defend themselves.

  29. There is an independant in most boroughs in most general elections.
    If there isnt, you could rally together and push one forward from your district. It only costs a coupla hundred, and if they get a few votes the deposit is returned even if they dont win.
    Its called ‘DEMOCRACY’ Annakin!
    Like I said; apathetic bloody race!
    The fact that the largest vote as you put it came from non voters only goes to prove i am right.
    Things ARE as cut and dried as I think.
    This country has been sold out by its leaders since shortly after WW2.
    who were Empowered by an ever more hoodwinked and dumbed down electorate.
    If anybody feels insulted, its probably because the truth hurts.
    They couldnt be bothered to notice the arsewipes they put in charge of the farm had sold the tractor to france, and rented the fields to brussels for peanuts..
    They gave away our fish, and our water, power and telecom companies.
    There isnt much left, frankly.

    so Stop bloody whineing.
    No political party is gonna do anything that will help.

  30. Your doing plenty of whinging yourself, we all know the problems of how nationalised industries were sold off to private companies and how Europe has taken over agriculture and fisheries etc., the French are complaining because their vineyards are being bought by foreigners, it’s happening everywhere. Money is power and Power most certainly corrupts.

  31. I am not talking about nationalised industries. they laid down and died like a good dinosaur yrs ago, and rightly(except for state of art defence and science firms) I am talking about the discrepancies in trade agreements between the u.k. and europe, and the u.k. and the u.s. Re buyouts; do you think france would allow us to buy they’re banks, power, and other utilities? Or the states? You think france is complaining genuinely about some poxy vineyards? They are laughing all the way to strasbourg. Now they complain the brits buy french land after 2 decades of waving thru immigrants to calais? & The u.s. is underflowing with u.k. buyouts.
    I might actually take some time later in the week to educate you as to what it means, and what happens when a U.S. venture capitalist firm buys out a british company, but if you have seen ‘Wall St’, your 40% there.
    This country is DYING because the electorate are
    ‘fucking DIMWITS’ . . Watching strictly come stupid or big brother and doing what they are told. !

    • Retrenching into narrow, insular nationalism is no answer to the current crisis, does it matter whether we’re being screwed by a French Capitalist, and American Capitalist or an English Capitalist, or a Capitalist from anywhere else? We’re still be being screwed.

      Part of the problem is this lunatic belief in our present system of democracy – and all both you Lure and Guy Fawkes seem to be suggesting is that implementing a slight change the present system through voting in independent representatives/scapegoats, for that’s what they really are.

      Perhaps it’s time to consider listening to your local anarchists, they won’t ‘lead’ you anywhere, only you can decide where it is you want to go, but could probably give you a good few pointers on how to do the job better yourselves, which ultimately is the only way anything is going to change for the better.

      Any kind of real change in our society for the better will take a heck of a lot of work, and there won’t be any change overnight. Nor will rabble rousing calls to ‘boil the oil’ result in any progress, or result in any support from anyone truly interested in making things better. Such calls are those of armchair revolutionaries or agents provocateurs aiming to foment the kind of reaction that would legitimise an even bigger clampdown on the part of the government.

      Or, the people making such calls could just be the kind of BNP shills who would relish being invited into government. Don’t think it couldn’t happen, it happened in Germany in the 1930s.

      Ultimately violence may be a necessity, but as a defensive, not pre-emptive measure. By and large it is the peaceful methods that stand a far greater chance of succeeding for us, as more people can be persuaded to join a peaceful movement rather than a violent one.

      On a final point, these comment forums are a very useful place to comment and debate the issues that Johnny draws our attention to so very well, always very well informed, well researched and not given to sensationalism, half truths or hyperbole, but it should be friendly debate that we engage in, not personal attacks, half-arsed incitements to violence or the amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth that is sometimes apparent here. We know the Tories are complete bastards, as are Labour, so do we really need to constantly re-iterate it? Or should we rather use this space to coordinate a debate on what we can do locally to make things better? I’ve joined the IWW and starting to campaign locally. I’m also involved with the local anarchist group in campaigning locally. We may not succeed in what we’re trying to do, but it sure beats just sitting around moaning about it.

      • First point; “re trenching into Narrow insular nationalism is no answer to the current crisis”;
        Translation from (and I am gonna be BLUNT here)
        UBER BOLLOX POLITICO WAFTY SURRENDER LINGO;
        ;’Erm, I dont think its a good idea we enforce our borders or re-negotiate trade agreements, cos, erm,. someone might not like it.
        Point two.
        ARE YOU FUCKING FRENCH???
        With your yellow attitudes I think you better retire to provence.
        My grandfather chased the bosch all over north africa so you can spout this defeatist shit.
        Listen to your local anarchist? What; for hints?
        Belt up.
        Your thoughtfully worded and paraphrased pap is neither use nor ornament.
        Tis YOU tossing in a farthing from the armchair .
        Hand in the side arm you smuggled out the service and keep your nose out if your only fit for slippers and pipe.

        • That’s you nicely uncovered for the jingoistic idiot I had you down for. Hook, line and sinker I think.

          It doesn’t matter a jot what nationality I am, I’m an internationalist as far as these matters are concerned.

          • Steven2011@lavabit.com

            He isn’t. Japan and South Korea have done very well for themselves for many years now due to both of them having NATIONALIST governments. Provided nationalism doesn’t degenerate into the land-grabbing militarism of Hitler’s Germany it can do a country a power of good.

  32. The debate/vote was nothing more than a media hyped propaganda stunt to give the bastard welfare reforms the halo of parliamentary legitimacy, none of the political class support subsistence welfare.

  33. None of the political classes are ‘against ‘ it either_
    They couldnt give a flying one as long as they get the 2nd house allowance and a hundred per week for luncheon.on top of 65k
    ARE YOU LEARNING YET? THEY GET MORE FOR LUNCH THAN WE LIVE ON ! !
    SACK THE LOT! the aunts

  34. Cruel Brittania.
    This Fascist Nation.

  35. Lure – you are telling most of us nothing we don’t already know about the ruling classes, which includes business, political,unions and media not to mention royalty and I think this country could well do without the lot of them, stop being an arrogant know it all, that will not get you the response you want from people, no wonder you have had little success in bringing down the establishment.

    • Yeah, yeah, its my job. Course it is.
      I rip the shit out of you party voters, and its my fault nothing has changed.
      I dont give a toss about being liked or getting
      ‘responses’ from people.
      Wake up, the lot of you. Or sit in front of the Xfactor and vegetate till voting day! Its YOUR bloody fault! NOT mine.
      I see trouble ahead.

  36. sweetfannyadams

    Oh god Johnny Void? Are they changing housing benefit (local housing allowance) still further? Are they making it worse than the 30th percentile of average rents for a given area of which there is virtually nothing available as it is? Does anyone know please? Dont think I can cope with the goalposts being moved again. I had a horrible feeling they would do this. It really does seem like we’re reverting to the horrors of Victorian Britain. Will we be hearing “the workhouse howl” as families are parted from their children again? Sounds dramatic I know but where in God’s name is this going to end? These bastards are inhuman and out for themselves arent they.
    Very concerned single parent with disability….

  37. @sweetfannyadams – getting in touch with Shelter, or your local council and asking them about this would be a good place to start, especially Shelter, as local councils often are pretty clueless themselves, and have been know to give out misleading information. Shelter is the national charity and can be found here:

    http://www.shelter.org.uk/

    Hope it all works out well and that you find that you don’t have to worry.

    • Shelter in Parliament
      “As a national campaigning and advice charity, our work with MPs, peers and their researchers to change housing law is an important part of solving our clients’ housing problems.”

      Conspiring to fail and counteracting dissent.

      • I entirely agree with you, I wasn’t suggesting for a moment that Shelter are a wonderful organisation, not for a minute, merely that they know what the legislation is, and if there are any changes on the way.

  38. Whoops! That should be “Shelter is the national charity for housing and homelessness”

  39. sweetfannyadams

    You could contact your local benefits agency and see what the situation is regarding housing payments or use their website.

    likewise you could call familly action on 020 7253 6251 or web familyaction.or.uk

    Or there is gingerbread who are also on web or you can phone 0808 802 0925
    perhaps you could let us know if you got any helpful advice.

  40. Shelter are okay as far as it goes as intermediaries re. benefits help because the dwp will pay attention to them. Apart from that, they, in fact, collude with the authorities and are pretty useless.
    They used to be good, but in the last decade they’ve had a clean out of the more left-wing minded people who used to work for them.
    You’l find a plethora of total airheads working at the coal-face now.

  41. our social housing association of which I am registered for an exchange or new let with less bedrooms, will not even let you log into their site most of the time and when you do get in they advertise housing with no photo’s not in your town and will not let you pinpoint to your own town. So your expected to trawl through 297 pages of lets to find there are none in your are – talk about taking the proverbial P…….

    • Nice to find an anarchist who lives in social housing.
      Vee would be impressed by that, but I am afraid it doesnt do much for your street cred; c.v. of a revolutionary; wants to overthrow the government, who also happen to be his/her discount social housing landlord….
      Nice Action!
      Can I rent your spare room when the bedroom tax cuts in?
      Or are you planning on buying a tent for when the fighting gets rough?
      You need to be prepared to board the place up in case some bugger squats when the fighting starts!

      • I too am an anarchist who lives in social housing, and actually I think you’ll find that the modern housing association movement was largely started by anarchists/libertarian socialists as a response to the authoritarian state monopoly of council housing. Sadly, many housing associations were lured into taking fat government development funds, and was the beginning of their downfall.

        My street cred is absolutely fine, as tenants with a problem they don’t think they can solve on their own know they can come to me and I’ll help in whatever way I can, and both they and the housing association know that I won’t take the usual crap they often try and fob tenants off with.

        And, from the sounds of things, Guy Fawkes street cred is fine too.

      • The subprime property-owning democracy was that not what got us into this mess in the first place. The British bank bailouts the biggest housing benefit payout in history, a property-owning democracy subprimed to the extent of national foreclosure.

        The welfare state shifted from the dole office to the bank counter doling out deregulated credit and mortgages to create the illusion of individual prosperity and national wealth.

  42. I believe that after the multitude of changes start in April we will see everything start to fall apart. There are just too many changes for people to comprehend and cope with. I already know of one housing association that are starting to panic because they realise that people aren’t taking the necessary steps in response to the changes. How it all turns out for the country (as opposed to for individuals) will depend on how and if things get reported in the media. if we have stories of vulnerable people dying replacing the tales of shirkers and scroungers, then we might start to see a positive change. But I’m not very optimistic about the future I’m afraid.

    • I think you’re right. Some organisations whose role is to give support/advice on benefits/rights are trying to prepare ahead for April (with things like specifically targeted ‘sessions/workshops’ for their client-groups). They understand that come April, things might well start to be unsustainable for many people – it’s all-too-easy to realise. Services like CAB are struggling under the weight of a growing clamour for help from those under attack, and who increasingly find themselves with a drastically reduced or nil income. All set against a backdrop of a bureaucratic machinery designed to be nigh-on impossible to find a way through, and which is now starting to eat away at people’s resources and even their will to fight for what they know (or at least suspect) to be rightfully theirs.

  43. Like I said previously all of this homelessness is going to be overshadowed by the birth of a new royal baby, even if the media did report the suffering, and all Ed milliband is interested in is what pledges the Tory’s have not carried out, doesn’t he think the tories have done enough damage?

  44. sibrydionmawr

    One thing I am not is a nationalist, so do not lump me with lure. To want a government made up of independents would be much preferable to the partisan, concensus politics we have now.
    In my own defence it was not long ago that you were personally insulting me, so now you thought you would have another go, you who wants nothing but peaceful action.
    If people come on here for a good moan who are you to tell them not to? given what has happened to most people they are entitled to. You may now have joined your local anarchist group, others burdened with child rearing, job searching not to mention transport problems are limitied in what they can do – not everyone has their own transport. You are so smug.

    • You would be lucky to be lumped with me. pal.
      Nationalist, eh? Same old mistakes.
      If the U.K. made moves on the rest of europes family jewels like we
      put up with, they would withdraw there diplomats and scream for negotiations before cancelling all trade agreements and treating us the same as north korea.
      You insult me all you bloody like. If you believe we get a fair deal. you are deffo a frenchman.

    • Thanks for the confirmation that you are not a nationalist, I wasn’t sure, but you do favour economic nationalism.

      I apologise for any offence I may have caused you, at any time.

      I too have jobsearching to do, and contrary to what you seem to believe, I do not have access to my own transport. I usually walk everywhere. I have never said that people should not moan, or that there isn’t a lot to moan about, though I do believe that moaning doesn’t change anything, and usually leaves you feeling worse, not better. The Americans have a wonderful phrase, “Don’t get mad, get even”

      It’s true that I don’t have any childcare obligations, and I do appreciate that many people do face individual circumstances where there may be limitations on what they can do. I’m sure any local group worthy of support would welcome and value any contribution people make, no matter how small.

      Maybe I do come across as smug, and maybe I am a little smug. All I can say is that I don’t mean to be.

      In reply to your comment about a government of independents, all I have experience of is local county councils in Wales made up of ‘independents’. The first question always asked was, ‘But are they a Labour Independent, or a Tory Independent or a Liberal Independent’ In other words, ‘same old shit, different wrapping’.

  45. I have never said we get a fair deal, and although not a nationalist I would like to see us on a trade only basis not only with Europe but the world. It was not that others made a move on our assets, we bloody gave them away, sold down the river.

  46. Whatever happens, the Lib Dems are toast, they’ll be lucky to get 10% of the national vote.

    • Steven2011@lavabit.com

      I am convinced that Clegg is a Tory inflitrator in the Lib Dems. I mean, how bloody stupid and politically inept can you be to see your own party destroyed and yet gain little or nothing in return for being in a coalition with the ‘nasty party’?

  47. Lure

    just read your post on the fact that I am a social housing tenant and how i cannot have revolutionary tendencies because of this???? What sort of dwelling do you live in pray tell, bought your own home from whatever occupation you did/do or are you living in a tent/caravan. The suggestion that you cannot rebel against the people that house you is bollocks, people do not rebel enough in my opinion.

  48. For some reason johhny void blog has become something to do with Twitter and has an untrustworthy certificate accirdibg to my phone

  49. Boris mc donut had all the right answers to Merryn Somerset Webb and her bent ugov poll. Who are the people that are being selected for these questionaires , even more to the point how are these questions structured?

  50. “In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage.”

    - John Steinbeck

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