Scope Pull Out of Mandatory Work Activity (again)

bhf-workfare-protestIn a humiliating snub to this Government’s welfare reforms, disability charity Scope have pulled out of workfare for the second time in just six months!

Scope first claimed to have pulled out of workfare in July, claiming they were extremely ‘disappointed’ that Boycott Workfare and others had been protesting about their use of forced labour.  The charity claimed a ‘robust placement agreement’ ensured that no-one was forced to work at the charity against their will.  Yet just a month earlier a DWP Press Release featured a case study in which a claimant was “referred to a Mandatory Work Activity (MWA) placement in a Scope charity shop – a referral that the claimant was reluctant to accept.”

Under DWP rules it is impossible to volunteer for Mandatory Work Activity (the clue’s in the name).   Once referred a claimant will have benefits stopped, possibly for three years, should they leave the scheme.  Scope have not yet apologised to Boycott Workfare for their misunderstanding of how Mandatory Work Activity operates – which led to them wrongly suggesting the campaign is opposed to genuine volunteering.

Scope are still sub-contractors to deliver the Government’s Work Programme, the scheme under which sick and disabled claimants can now be sent on workfare for an unlimited period.

Scope are the fourth major charity to pull out of workfare after the DWP announced that sick and disabled claimants can now be forced into unpaid work.  British Heart Foundation, Cancer Research UK and Age UK have also announced they are pulling out of the scheme in the last month.

Whilst these announcements are welcome they will be greeted with scepticism.  British Heart Foundation (BHF) have only said they are ‘moving away’ from the scheme.   There are reports of claimants still being referred to unpaid placements with the charity.

Yesterday a small but determined Boycott Workfare protest visited the BHF furniture shop in Brixton (pictured above).  Just a week earlier sleuths from the campaign had spoken to one person in the store who confirmed they were still taking unpaid placements referred from Jobcentres.  Whilst no workfare workers were present yesterday, it remains to be seen if they are genuinely pulling out of workfare altogether.

The protest also visited @superdrug and @poundland, both of whom profit from unpaid staff.

The DWP themselves are responsible for much of the confusion.  When the workfare row broke out at the beginning of the year the Government claimed benefit sanctions had been lifted from the scheme.  In truth only workfare placements at private companies became ‘voluntary’.  Those who refused to volunteer for the likes of Argos and Superdrug risked being sent on Mandatory Work Activity with a charity instead.

Until the DWP stop enforced work completely then all schemes should be considered mandatory by charities who support genuine volunteering as opposed to mandated workfare.

Some of the charities still using workfare include: @Papworth_Trust @salvationarmyuk @Capability_Scot @TCVtweets @CSV_UK @RSPCA_official @RBLI

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276 responses to “Scope Pull Out of Mandatory Work Activity (again)

  1. “The DWP themselves are responsible for much of the confusion.”

    Of course, the aim of benefit cuts is to save money for the rich; the PM said so himself in PMQ’s on Tuesday, 12th-

    So having an atmosphere of uncertainty and mis-information gives DWP opportunities for sanctioning clients, who may well have believed workfar[c]e even in charitable shops was non-mandatory- as I believed it was.

  2. It was found that quite a sizeable portion of people who were mandated to do this actually had paid jobs, one of the few that worked. The rest of the success has been down to those that simply do not want to work.

  3. Who simply does not want to work Jenny?

  4. Jenny, if you were an employer, would you take on somebody who didn’t want to work- even through workfar[c]e?

  5. I am normally against welfare to work programmes but on this occasion this is one of the few that work. This programme is not targetted against people who are disabled or ill, it is aimed at people who do the bare minimum and sign on ie make no attempt to find work. It was revealed that this is because many of those mandated to MWA were actually moonlighting on jobs, a high number were also told DWP they had no intention of working and these people were sanctioned.

    I have to say that the few who told DWP they did not want to work at all do not deserve JSA, when we could be using the money for nurses.

    Mandatory Work Activity was designed for those who JCP staff were making no effort at all to find work and were content to receive money for nothing.

    • No-one receives money for nothing. The Welfare State is an insurance system we have all paid into.

      • Except those who have never worked at all, this includes immigrants, students and those who really are workshy.

        • immigrants don’t get benefits unless they are EU and have worked in the UK. students don’t get benefits either except in very rare circumstances. everyone pays tax, even if only VAT.

          • most of our immigrants are EU, Eastern European EU. Students as in the large number of graduate unemployment, I didn’t make that clear. Everybody does pay tax, unless they only buy non VAT food and get their heating, phones etc paid, so you are correct.

        • (www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjALUKfMkn8)

    • Fuck off cunt

    • Which tabloid do you use for your research, Jenny?

    • Jenny, it has been proven that “workfare” does not improve people’s chances of gaining paid employment. In fact, it appears to worsen people’s overall long-term chances of finding work. And since according to the DWP MWA is NOT to be used as a “punishment” but instead as a measure to improve a claimant’s prospects of securing work the scheme appears to be of no use whatsoever to claimants.

    • What are you? One of Idiot Drunken Smith’s goons? Where do you get your information from? The Daily Fail by any chance? I’d love to know where all these jobs you seem believe to exist are!

    • Jenny, the EU workers from Eastern Europe, i.e. those countries that were accepted into the EU such as Romania after 2004 have to have worked for a period of 12 months in the UK before they are entitled to UK benefits. Students haven’t been able to claim benefits for many years, I think that right was withdrawn before the end of the last century.

      Like many, you seem to have just accepted the propaganda spewed forth by the Nasti Party’s mouthpieces, the Sun and the Daily Mail.

      There may be a few who really don’t want to work, but it is a very few. Even in the bad old days of full employment when unemployment used to hover around 500,000 there were only a handful of people who really didn’t want to work. The numbers of those who truly don’t want to work haven’t increased, and probably number a few thousand in the whole of the UK. What has happened is that a huge pool of unemployed has been created in order to suppress wages, which are already obscenely low, (anything below £10 an hour is obscene).

      It’s my guess that people like you will finally wake up in about June next year when you start to be affected by the cuts.

      Take a step back, engage your brain for a change, and really think… can’t you see that the Tories and their friends are lying to us?

  6. Any charity that takes part in workfare should be blacklisted and those sponsors should also feel less than comfortable if they continue to support the charities who advocate it to bolster their voluntary workforce, financial inducements or not… it’s Wrong!.. it’s Unethical!… it’s Degrading! and it’s Doomed!. For those capable of working and those moralists who think people who are capable of working should be doing so for their benefits, then maybe when the government say nobody on benefits should be getting more than someone in employment on the minimum working wage, will have to revaluate that stance. Charities need to understand they cannot use and abuse this and expect to be looked upon in the same way again. The very term “Voluntary” in relation to those who advocate the use of Workfare would have to be looked at because the term could no longer be used in the same manner, much less those capable of working and wanting to work be doing so for less than the minimum working wage.

  7. Am I daft? Sorry but i just dont understand how the various terms (work programme, mandatory work activity, workfare etc) I have trouble working out whats compulsory, for who. Is it supposed to be deliberately misleading?

    • I have replied below.

      In addition, they differ because of the entry points. Work Programme kicks in after 9 months, the rest depend.For prison leavers, this is as soon as they leave prison. For disabled workers, this may be subject to change, because DWP are closing all of the Remploy factories regardless of their denials. This has already been decided by policy makers on Tothill Street where IDS resides.

      MWA can happen at any time but in reality, it is usually the long term unemployed who are mandated to the programme. Like its name, this is Mandatory.

      All programmes are Mandatory but the Work Programme means you will see a Third Party provider such as A4E instead of your advisor, whereas MWA is a 4 week work placement.

      • Jenny all of your assumptions about how MWA works in practice have been wrong so far. I hope to have a piece up about this tomorrow.

        • I think you will find that is factual. Those on Mandatory Work Activity are not on any other programme. If anyone finds that they are any different, write to Sue Owen at Tothill Street, she is the boss of JCP.

          • I meant Ruth Owen, my mistake.

          • I see you are a JCP troll, Or a DWP troll. Jenny, or is it Julia. I am on th work programme, It does not work, It is worse than if it never existed. It in reality destroys any chance of a job. This is just a figure fiddling exercise.

    • You’re not daft but these so clearly aren’t ‘what they say on the tin’ – they have a double meaning (& are meant to mislead). So to Mr&Ms general public who maybe aren’t part of the benefits system (even if they rely on in-work credits to top up their wages), & depending on the views they already hold about ‘who deserves to get what for doing what’, all these terms could sound ‘meaningful’ & legitimate.

      They are variations on commonly-understood meanings relating to ‘work’ (you have a role, a boss, traditionally some cash at the end of the week). But – note the use of the word ‘mandatory’ in front of the words ‘work activity’ – not ‘work’ in the way that’s been traditionally understood (someone is forcing someone else; they’re not likely to be going to pay them a day’s wage for a day’s work). Deliberately joining the words ‘work’ and ‘welfare’ together into ‘workfare’ as part of a much wider attempt to join the two concepts together, neatly inventing a new meaning for something that’s not been typical in our society before (working for free). It’s working; people en mass are getting used to hearing these terms and the ideology propping them up. The next obvious step is piggybacking on the concept of ‘voluntary work’ (it always meant ‘when people choose to work for free’ in the past) but introducing the idea of (voluntary/mandatory/work) ‘placements’ for ‘workless volunteers’ (okay, they’re mandated to be there but it’s not THAT different, is it?). Many people understand something about volunteering but might never have tried it – they just know you don’t get paid a salary and that it can sometimes lead to paid work so it’s easy to sell the idea that ‘workless’ people are going to do this (helping them to gain experience of the world of work – the assumption being that they’ve never been there before). They will receive their benefit – it’s a bit like someone ‘going to work for real’.

      The way that rearranging meaning works is it depends on the ‘rules’ being in place to allow the new terminology to translate into getting people to work for their benefits/be expected to do more and more in order to get less – and less. All of the current ‘methods’ which are/have been introduced to make life impossible for those on ‘welfare’ are based on the assumption most unemployed (‘workless’) people don’t realise what’s being done to them (they do) and/or will just be grateful to be alive (and will put up with/do whatever is asked of them). Generally we will. Anyone who understands that they can lose their only source of income by ‘not complying’ is very likely to go along with almost any version of events being sold to them (when it’s by someone ‘in authority’, carrying out a set of government rules. It’s difficult to challenge something that’s presented as ‘the rule’ especially without access to the rule book/a good lawyer/the bigger picture). The incredible injustice(s) being carried out in full view of everyone (for as long as they’ve been going in this general direction) continue because of the tacit consent of huge numbers of people who strongly suspect (read ‘know’) that they are the victim of injustice – but have little in the way of ‘bargaining power’. What are they going to do – withdraw their labour?. When you’re on the wrong end of a massive power imbalance it’s difficult make challenges at any level but what’s worse is that it feels exactly like a vicious mob attacking a defenceless person – with a crowd of bystanders who can’t really work out what’s going on (somehow they can’t see properly, perhaps it’s a bit dark or it’s been a long day and they’re tired). They just end up deciding that the victim must have ‘deserved it’ in some way and the attackers must in fact have been ‘trying to help’.

  8. Dr Marten Kilfash

    Since there are insufficient jobs to go round – 6 claimants per vacancy across the country – ‘finding work’ simply deprives someone else of the opportunity. Giving one of these scarce jobs to someone who ‘doesn’t want one’ is quite absurd.

  9. no links to the silly lizard man please

  10. Everything that Herr Shit, Lawdy Miss Frawdy et al are enacting have one purpose only: to FUCK US UP and wreck the benefits system.😡

  11. We, the citizens of The ConDemNation, are a big charity to fund the scroungers at the apex of the corrupt and sleazy pyramid, with that gaggle of überwankers, the royal incest family, right at the point of that apex.

  12. Paul, The Work Programme is the DWP Flagship which replaced the hundreds of Welfare to Work Programmes under Labour, mainly Flexible New Deal. It doesn’t work, neither did Flexible New Deal but at least the taxpayer is only paying a basic up front cost unlike Flexible New Deal where crooks such as A4E took the money. The current rate of success is 3% from the projected 5%. This has blown £1bn-£2bn hole in the Government’s funding. The Government benefits from a saving in benefits and income from a working taxpayer.

    Mandatory Work Activity is where DWP staff will mandate people into a 4 week work placement because the claimant has made no attempt to find work. It is designed to discipline people into getting into a work routine and also gives them experience on their CV. It was found that many were simply moonlighting or didn’t want to work. This is one of few that are actually paying.

    Workfare is a generic term for claimants who go on work schemes such as Work Programme, Mandatory Work Activity, Access to Work, Prison Leavers etc. Hope that helps.

    • “It was found that many were simply moonlighting or didn’t want to work. This is one of few that are actually paying. ”

      @Jenny

      No it wasn’t. What happened was a proportion of claimants decided to either refuse to attend MWA and thereby receive a sanction, or simply signed off of JSA. That does not necessarily mean the claimants were all moonlighting, neither does it mean the scheme worked in its supposed aim of improving claimants’ employability. People do have such a thing as principle, and even those who have little are willing to make a stand against what amounts to state-sanctioned slavery.

      • Correct Scarecrow78, Many people dont want to have the kind of shit that the DWP and serco/a4e give them. I have been with a4e three times and three times they have been worse than useless.

        • Of course they are crap because the point of the work program is to make money for the work program deliverers..

          It has frick all to do with getting people into work. Imagine if all people were working how the hell would companies profit? That threat of hire and fire sure works wonders..

    • And highly profitable too for the providers too even though most of them are not fit for purpose. But hey thats the whole point of the work program isnt it?

  13. People are sanctioned because the job centre sadists make up any kind of rubbish to sanction people, you do not have to say you do not want to work to be sanctioned – Junk minded jenny wouldn’t know a legitimate case from a none legitimate case and there are not many legitimate sanction cases – the sick for example who are considered by atos not to be sick and put on jsa SHOULD NOT BE ASKED TO WORK NEVER MIND BEING GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO REFUSE.

    • ATOS origin is different. Some people have signed on sick whereas in reality they can do some sort of work. For example, people who may have hurt their back can still do some work such as office work. In the attempt to weed out the cheats, DWP have caught genuine people in the net. I feel sorry for these people.

      MWA are normally those who have been long term unemployed, and it caught quite a few people who had been moonlighting, depriving the needy of the money that they need.

      • You are very disingenuous, “back ache” can cover for a great many of sins and unless you personally know that persons medical history you have no right to pronounce who is “fit” enough to do “office work”. Sitting for long periods of time is actually counter-indicative in a spinal or muscular injury. Unless you have some medical qualifications I would lay off these sort of statements if I were you. Pain experienced within these illnesses or injuries can lead to a suicidal patient, stop them from enjoying any aspect of life and totally ruin relationships. People like you can pronounce from your sofa whatever non-sense you like in private, as it is obvious you are convinced that all social security benefiencients are swinging some kind of scam but that is where your mouth should stay. PRIVATE.

      • Ah the old something for nothing drum beater.,like Atos farming out the PIP contract to another firm but very kindly took the money all the same.

    • There are of course what could be described as benefit ‘cheats’ too.
      But nowhere near the amount that the media spin and ‘propaganda’ would have most of the working public believe.

      Unfortunately, that bill rose by £70bn from £130bn to £200bn in 5 years.I find it hard to believe someone isn’t cheating. It could be immigrants, it could be anything, but I would loathe as a taxpayer to see that go into someone who wants to sit on their ass.

      I want more for those who do need it, the sick, the elderly, and for those who find themselves genuinely without work.

      • Yes Jenny. I do agree with you.

        But the DWP and their contracted ‘little helpers’ do not give a damn about the human being that is sat in front of them.

        A few do, but not many!

      • Yeah, I wonder why the benefits bill rose so much in the last few years? It definitely couldn’t be anything to do with a massive recession that led to lots of businesses closing down, and others firing staff to save money, could it? Nah, I’m sure it’s just because lots of people who had jobs suddenly all became really lazy at the same time, that’s probably it.

      • Deserving and Undeserving poor. How original.

      • Again you show ignorance as to why these figures rise and obviously count yourself to be that special breed “the taxpayer”. Have you at any time in your life attempted to try and research what you are told, so that you can tease out the different strata of statistics. Just because you have been told there is a rise does not nessecarily mean that everyone is scamming the system. Many more children survive disabilities these days than ever before, medicine has really leapt within the last 30+ years, they are now coming into adulthood and are one aspect of the stats rising, another reason is the amount of people that survive catastrophic injury either accidental or medical, a third reason is the amount of injuries due to all the wars we have been fighting. Are you suggesting that the armed forces personnel that have survived these injuries are not worthy of support from “the taxpayer”.

      • Yes Jenny, there are some people cheating… their called Tory politicians and bankers.

      • Yeah its annoying seeing that tax payers money being wasted on wasters like G4s A4e , virgin care . Interserve , eos works to name but a few and that is excluding monster useless site..ie UJM,,

  14. Jenny said…

    “…it is aimed at people who do the bare minimum and sign on ie make no attempt to find work”.

    Really? Well. to a degree you are quite correct. Of course there are a small percentage who do not want to work, or perhaps are ‘moonlighting’ as you put it. The welfare to work does not discriminate, genuine or otherwise, it doesn’t really matter anymore. We are just commodities.
    There are of course what could be described as benefit ‘cheats’ too.
    But nowhere near the amount that the media spin and ‘propaganda’ would have most of the working public believe.

    And anyway this is speculation. Who is to say what that percentage might be? Are all jobseekers unemployed a year or more lazy or workshy? No, of course not. But we still get all this rather ineffectual nonsense thrown at us. Therefore it’s not just aimed at the workshy.

    I look for work, apply for jobs and always keep records, the JC accept this. And for many people this is the case.
    The providers however? They are mostly unscrupulous and the for profit nature of the providers does cloud their judgement somewhat.
    They bullied me, made mistakes and I am suffering a long sanction due to the borderline psychopathic behaviour of them!

    I have appealed. but they don’t care, wont care. I want a job, but the job market is a bit patchy to be frank. I have no income, I’m still looking for work, Oh yeah, the sanction as a motivational exercise? Hmmm? Big fail there then. It’s all my fault of course, right?

    Unemployment is now a crime essentially. A bit of critical thinking wouldn’t go amiss from the resentful. But that’s maybe why they are resentful, not capable of such thinking and lack a little humanity. No compassion, Just assumptions. I do not let it get me down anymore. They can just carry on with their obviously narrow minds.

    Haters always gotta hate! Peace and love to all the good people out there.

    • Workshy and moonlighters are different. There are those who work and claim, they receive cash in hand and MWA caught a lot of people.

      Not all long term unemployed have no intention, far from it, nearly all want to work but through differing reasons, something the Work Programme does not address, is that simply, the economy is still fragile, re HMV, people simply are from work because of their skills and it is pointless sending people for forklift licences, and when help is given, ie Future Jobs Fund, DWP simply did not ensure that the £100k per place was spent on what it was supposed to because Yvette Cooper blew £1 billion of our money to try and win her and her husband Ed Balls the election.

      • So the work program should be scrapped then?

      • Ex-Fraud Investigator

        Jenny, even the DWP’s own statistics state that less than 0.0000000000000000001% of claimants on JSA are “moonlighting”. As a point of fact, as an ex-DWP Fraud Investigator I can say that the vast majority of fraudsters were caught were on “disability” benefits; for instance running thriving car repair businesses, I even apprehended a “schizophrenic” who was earning £500 a week cash-in-hand painting and decorating. I really don’t know where you get your misconceptions from, Jenny, and you do have a lot of them, the red-top press me thinks.

        • Shop a scrounger ( you know it makes sense)
          [ photo contains an actor ]

        • So , whats going on with all that ‘moonlighting’ stuff?

          The report also highlights problems finding placements due to competition from other workfare programmes as well as Community Payback. Claimants on MWA are sentenced to a similar length of unpaid work as a mid-level community service punishment and often work alongside those convicted of an offence.

          The evaluation blows apart some myths which have emerged about the scheme. It has been suggested by MWA is often used when someone is suspected of working illegally whilst claiming benefits. The report confirms that this is not one of the main uses of the scheme by Jobcentres, but instead it is used when advisors believe someone is not ‘motivated’ or there is ‘doubt’ about a claimant’s commitment to look for work.

          An earlier assessment of MWA had concluded that many claimant’s sign off benefits when referred to workfare. This study finds this effect is only temporary, concluding that “the benefit impact over the first 21 weeks equates to referred individuals being off benefit for an average of about four days more than if they had not been referred.”It is clear that MWA does not help people find work and nor does it reduce the numbers of people on benefits. Some claimant’s even reported that the scheme made it more difficult to find work: “MWA will make it harder for someone to look for a job. It’ll make you more miserable – working for nothing and no time to look for a job.”

          Many charities who had previously been only too happy to exploit the amount of free labour available due to MWA had attempted to suggest that that their involvement was intended to support unemployed people into work. The report reveals the real reason so many charities were quick to sign up to workfare:

          “The majority of the hosts described getting involved in MWA to provide staff for their organisations, which in many cases relied on unpaid staff to operate. Indeed several described coming to rely on MWA to provide a steady supply of staff. ”

          The report also highlights just how early into people’s claims MWA is often used, stating that there is a push to refer claimants onto the scheme when they have been on benefits just 13 weeks.Finally the study makes some concerning recommendations, including extending the length of MWA to eight weeks. It is also suggested that the ‘community benefit’ stipulation be relaxed, meaning that more claimants would be sent to replace paid jobs in places like Superdrug and Poundland.”

        • Your command of mathematics must be similar to those of the Department of Transport, ie crap.
          If even 1 of those 5m people were moonlighting it would be 0.00002% and if just 1 person out of the whole country of say 60m it could only be 0.000001666666666% so you are talking the bollox.

          You don’t fill me with confidence. Just proves that Civil Servants are crap with numbers, even the treasury at the height of the crisis thought there would be 3.5m JSA claimants, 25% out.

          I remember when they said they hired the best in the private sector and got an IT Director, someone called Harley on 250k, and a failed Financial Controller at BT called Roland Ginn, must have been on the gin because I heard he was crap, looking at the Treasury best in finance table, weren’t DWP quite low on forecasting accuracy.

          And these shit at maths people run our country? No wonder the facking economy is in a mess. Get back to facking GCSE maths.

        • Work Programme will fail. Ex-Fraud Investigator proved himself to be an ex-Civil Servant wasn’t lying with his poor command of maths,,must be the decimal place they have trouble with, or inflation at Department of Transport, apparently, they didn’t know it needed to be counted. Maybe someone should tell them. Makes me wonder whether the claimant count is right, or the recent in work numbers, who knows what to believe?

          Do we have 2 runways at Heathrow, or is it 3 or 4? Who knows, because the Civil Servants told us we need a third runway.

          Who knows how long the HS2 will take to reach northern cities. Is this 1h 10 to Sheffield or 110 minutes, because civil servants prepare the papers, even they don’t know.

          To get to Glasgow, is that 337 minutes or 3h 37. Did I hear a civil servant say what is the difference?

  15. Jenny, you’re not well. I recommend bedrest…..oh, hold on a minute…that’s been criminalised by the Claggeron….better get seen by Atos….oh, hold on, they’ll only send you back here.
    Ah, forget it.
    Jenny, carry on.
    We need a laugh.

  16. The amount of benefits being fraudulently claimed is worth less than it would cost to halt it.
    That’s the only reason there is any fraud at all.
    The system is SO draconian (yes, Jenny, I do knw what that big word means) that it’s virtually impossible to scam it.
    You have either bought into the gummint propaganda or you are a government propagandist troll yourself.
    Which one, Jenny? Because you are one or the other. No doubtaboutit.

    • You are right, it costs more to stop fraud than prevent it, it actually amounts to less than 2%.

      What makes me laugh is half of that is caused by JCP staff themselves overpaying people. Of course, they won’t sack themselves, just like they didn’t sack the 3 idiots at the Department for Transport for the West Coast fiasco.

  17. Well i found out today that The Sue Ryder shop in Gloucester is using people for the 4 week manditory scheme.I will not give them stuff to sell ever again and have friends who will not buy from this charity.
    Bloody check anything for nothing thats all they give a damn about so the top people of this charity still get their benefits!
    SUE RYDER IN GLOUCESTER BOYCOTT IT.

    • Well said Rosemarie, I also stopped giving to charity, as soon as they signed up for this deal. No charity will ever again see a penny from me, they are all tarred with the same brush. I now sell anything I might have given or make personal donations to people I know who won’t be offended by any offer I make, it’s working out well so far.

      • Well this is most odd, unless thats part of the game plan. Discredit the charities and look no ‘safety net’ leaving good old private to dive in and benefit from.,

  18. Pingback: Scope Pull Out of Mandatory Work Activity (again) | Welfare, Disability, Politics and People's Right's | Scoop.it

  19. Jenny

    Your say you do not work for the DWP yet openly admit you have caught people moonlighting ??????? What about MP’s paid for by the tax payer like Jungle Nadine who was moonlighting for mega bucks. Then we have MP’s that are sitting on boards of directors telling us it is not a conflict of
    interest because they do not get paid – Yeah Right. You have the cheek to pick on the unemployed and low waged who are living beyond the poverty line for a bit of moonlighting. 5 hail Mary’s for you.

    • I haven’t caught people moonlighting personally but as someone who campaigns ti get the benefits paid to the right people, that includes getting all the thieves off benefits, moonlighters etc and increasing tax incomes, ie hound tax dodgers or we will end up Luke Greece and get the economy moving, and that means, British jobs for British people.

      • Hey i like that british jobs for british workers., emma harrison agrees with you.
        She said nice things when ceo from foxconn was here, pretty soon all crap in crap factories where workers get to sleep on mats will be made in blighty and chinese will moan why is everything made in britain.,

        There is hope after all,,

  20. Having scrutinised your posts a bit more forensically, Jenny, I detect a certain frisson of excitable right-wing Amerikan idioms. Could you truly be one of those rare critters, a Yank with a passport…over here to pontificate to us and spread your voodoo economics, your disdain for the poor, and your twisted Amerikan nightmare?
    Or are you simply one of the brainwashed Brits who buy into all the Yankee propaganda pumped into your diminished brain via the visual valium?
    Either way..
    …fuck off…oh, hold on, do stay.
    Oh, Jenny, you have me all a-fluster.
    What can I say?
    Marry me?

  21. Jenny | December 13, 2012 at 4:37 pm | Reply
    “ATOS origin is different.”
    >>>>
    You can say that again……
    ……hahahahahaha…
    ……you are such a kidder, Jenny. A omedy career beckons. *~*

    • ATOS are like A4E, BEST, G4S and all the other Work Programme providers, leeching from the taxpayer because useless civil servants cannot do their jobs, that is where all your money is going.

      • Hmm what a reply.. Private companied leeches and public sector useless.. So what zone deals with this stuff..a ‘third way’

        • There is a third way.Provide a gateway whereby jobseekers get to speak to real employers bypassing intermediaries. Money saved to provide companies participating with an incentive to take people on for 2 years or mire, instead A4E, Serco and the lujes get money for nothing.

          • But wheres the profit in that? Recruitment agencies go broke having to sack staff…oh dear..

          • Giving money to outfits like A4e does generate employment within those companies but its very wasteful, i.e poor multiplier effect in generating more employment, much of the government money to them ends up in the pockets of the owners which then circulates in secondary markets (i.e existing housing stock such as millionaire mansions, stock markets, expensive foreign holiday homes etc) This is apart from the intense ill-will felt by those who are processed by them and the detrimental effect on moral in general.

            About twenty years ago I was dithering about setting up a small business and at that time there was a regional grant system in my area that meant I could take on an employee who was then paid a living wage that was in part subsidised by about £2k for I think 6 months. There was no company like A4e involved, it was a direct connection between me and the grant source. It worked fine and after 6 months I took on another person under the same deal. Both were kept on after the six months period ran out and by that time the company was viable. Everybody was a winner, i.e a company came into existence, two long term unemployed people got a job, with the money paid out through the grant amply paid back by the savings in welfare costs and an increase in tax revenues through the new employees.
            I think such a scheme should be reintroduced as well as a lift up to people who would like to try being self-employed but are scared to do so because of losing their housing benefit etc and all the associated red-tape in determing if income support can be paid. I would simply assure such a person that for six months all your existing benefits will be paid with no questions asked.

      • bobchewie: “And with a grant like that no one is going to rin off with it and not be seen again or piss it away on drugs or illegal business or extended holiday ….”

        You had to prove by payslips that a person had been taken on and the grant source could always check direct with the employee. It was a discretionary grant (no appeal) so that in principle it could be withheld if it could not definately be established that new jobs were being created. This would minimise those who simply rotate staff to get the grant amount to increase their profits as happens now with the Work Program related stuff from what I read.

  22. Or even a comedy career.
    Excitable iPad.
    Lucky me, Jenny, eh?
    Wanna sanction me? Oooooooh…..naughy girl….

  23. btw, Maria Miller on the rack for HER benefit fraud…..
    get stuck into HER, Jenny, you hypocritical cunt.

    • I’d more like to get stuck into Google, thieving twats. Yes, she should pay her expenses back and so should Ed Balls and Yvette Cooper, flipping houses and both claiming an allowance when married. I also want the £430k back from George Entwistle, the billions back from RBS’ when they paid over the odds for ABN AMRO, from HBOS for putting Lloyds in difficulties, from Gordon Brown for selling our gold, from the French for having the audacity to want to increase the EU budget when their farmers benefit, from people who set up limited companies, get paid £50k and claim maximum tax credits, we are all be screwed with a giant cucumber up the ass.

    • Maria Miller is expenses fraud, not benefit fraud. That would be fraud if an NO claimed benefits.

  24. Somebody, please, just gimme a machine gun…
    …and the necessary ammmo.
    Santa? Anyone?

  25. So stop picking on benefit claimants, they are small fry compared to the likes of Mr Green Top shop owner or should that be his wife who is a tax exile and not paying tax for any of the top shop outlets unless i am mis-informed by google.

    • I am not picking on benefit claimants, it is factual. You are right, you can probably shave £50 billion off the welfare bill that is true. You can also say £150-200 billion is being evaded or avoided, legal or not. Phil Green probably does avoid some tax, but remember, he also saved BHS from going bust. What the government should do is, instead of shovelling £1billion+ into A4E and similar, they should save our industry, HMV will probably be in administration after Christmas, I am sure they could do with some staff, so pay them instead, the claimant gets a few months work in a retail store and maybe they have a chance.

      What you don’t see is DWP took on 60,000 people (doubling their staff) when they thought unemployment was going to hit 3.5 million, it didn’t.

      You do the maths, 60000 on 20k a year, costing £1.8bn over their fixed term contract. They didn’t even need that many, they just need to kick the arses of the lazy staff at DWP.

      • So what if BHS had gone belly-up. They just sell frumpy old- fashioned tat anyhow & Green should pay his taxes.

        • Because all those staff on the dole will mean less for everyone else and all those staff would be paying income tax, and regardless of whether he avoids tax or not, still £40m a year in the coffers. Starbucks, now that is a tax dodger, Amazon, putting people out of business.

          • What makes you think BHS actually have PAID staff? Chances are a percentage of them in every store are Workfare slaves.Why do you think the likes of Green are all filthy, stinking rich? And before you accuse me of being jealous, I’m not, I just hate injustice & we are living in a incredibly unjust society where the rich have it all & poorest are paying for it.

      • Hey they could have got crapita to run the whole thing..who needs DWP staff when you can outsource..

  26. I’m all in favour of that! Get rid of them altogether and pay the unemployed direct from the bank until there really is worthwhile work in the pipeline and that doesn’t look like soon if osbornes managing of the economy is anything to go by.

    • Directly paid for work and get rid of the expensive work programme, Ms Harrison kills me when she swans about, and she paid one of her own private companies taxpayers money for holding A4E meetings, robbing cow got all she deserved.

  27. What Work? charities? We have a global economy, that means excess labour to produce what the world needs = no jobs for those that want a decent wage to produce!

  28. Fuck work and fuck the dole- it’s all a racket, being treated like a piece of meat, bullied by a supervisor, manager or benefits adviser. Screw being milked for my surplus labour to line the pockets of some proper idle rich bastards. The nazis had a campaign against the ‘workshy’ and that’s where we’re headed… “Arbeit Macht Frei”.

  29. Let us lighten the mood for a very short while :-)

  30. Ok Jenny/julie Professors Robert MacDonald and Tracy Shildrick from Teesside University and Andy Furlong from Glasgow University, carried out intensive fieldwork but were unable to find families with three generations in which no-one had ever worked http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10103159.The_welfare_scrounger_is_exposed_as_myth_by_new_report/?ref=twtrec Guess thats a lie thats debunked..

    • Robert MacDonald and Professor Tracy Shildrick must have walked around with their eyes closed. I only have to look down the street to see benefits cheats enjoying the fruits of their Labour (pun entirely intended).
      .
      This heap of rubbish was funded by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. Need we say any more?

      sarahd says…
      11:38am Thu 13 Dec 12

      Could this be due to the fact that when the grandparents, of the 3 generations, were young/younger, there were no benefits and people had to work?

      • There’s ‘enjoying’ and there’s ‘enjoying’. If it’s these that you’ve “seen” that you are envious/resentful of perhaps you should aim a little bit higher when looking for someone to resent.

        As for all the fruit(s) they are enjoying – fruit (tinned or otherwise) isn’t usually top of the list of affordable items (along with veg) for those on a low or minimum income as tends to cost quite a bit more than cheaper and more filling types of food sources. Do you mean you have seen them eating or drinking something – or generally being outside and not leaning against a wall crying (or have you looked through their windows and seen a large, flat screen tv?). If it’s a caviare and champagne lifestyle you’re seeing then they can only realistically be enjoying that for one day in every 14, leaving the other days less fun-filled – so is it worth worrying so much about someone you’re not related to spends their money? It is their money and unless you live with them 24/7 or have been spying on them round the clock it’s not very scientific to make pronouncements such as these based on “what you’ve seen” – anyone can do that.

      • Wow, you are a nosy person. But YOU do not know their situation, Aint you just a judgemental person.If you know they are cheats report them unless they are not cheats. And how do you term cheat? because they are eating food, having a drink.

  31. Ok Julie/jenny.. What do these so called by you “workshy” actually do with the money.. They buy food, clothing, cigarettes. Money doesnt just stop except for those rich enough. that money is used to hire more staff, who then pay more tax, and so on. So the myth that the money is wasted is wrong. Anyone with even a basic Economic background would see that money moves about creating wealth

  32. There were no benefits – no work – people starved at worst and went hungry at best, have you never heard of the Jarrow Marchers? I refuse to reply to anymore of your denigration of the unemployed your just one of the siko benefit workers.

  33. Sack all the benefit agency workers and pay the unemployed directly through the bank.

  34. I cannot afford an iPad.
    However, I was given one. By someone who cares for me far more that this evil pennypinching government.
    Oh…I forgot…they’re only pennypinching towards the poor….to each other they lavish taxpayers money like it’s confetti.
    Just ask Maria Miller.

  35. shirleyknott.
    That is the “thought” description of words and what they really mean, but to the many it’s just words “Workfare” etc.I think the same, putting words together to make it alright for this government to give a negative view of the unemployed and make it alright to do work for free as it’s fare.
    Yours is the first comment that has looked at the way they use these words .

  36. Quick heads up, join Boycott Workfare and others in telling one of the UK’s largest workfare exploiters what you think, details on here first thing, but be ready to contact @tcvtweets

  37. Will the DWP give me a new heart before they send me on Workfare. The blood ejection from left ventrical of a normal working heart is 60% to 70%, mine is only 6% to 10% leaving me starved of Oxygen. Well when it gets to 0% which isn’t too far away, I guess I will be dead. I’ll do a BBC News reader John Sopel commentary here, “WHO CARES?”

  38. Moi

    Nice to see somebody trying to lighten the mood but wished another symbolic face mask had been used to depict a lord of the dance theme, because people are facing real issues that require a change of direction from this ideological government.
    Tonight I have watched 3 programmes of people old, young, ill being evicted or being sent to jail all because of the economic downturn, then we have the housing minister telling the audience on question time that they have ordered the release of money from the sale of council housing to build more houses so that people can get on the first rung of the ladder for home ownership. Some of those that were evicted were those that had bought council housing.
    Does this government live in cloud cuckoo land by wanting to build yet more houses for sale to promote their ideology of home ownership when people are losing their homes because of unemployment and being unable to pay their mortgage or rent because of benefit caps or reductions in housing benefit. So I’m sorry moi, enjoyed the dancing but it has no place in politics or representation from guido fawkes.

    • For most people to own their own home is a world away, they are just thinking month to month.. will they have enough to cover the cost of their rent this month or will they have to take it from the utilities budget and have no heating or from the gas or electric, or the water, or the tv license budget or another bill that will need to be met at some given moment be it weekly, monthly or quarterly.. most likely food… people with equity or the means to acquire it would be considered in a better position even if that may not always be the case and they have their own issues on a different level.

      It all comes down to divide and rule… this government do not care for anyone but their own so-called class, not even the working class will be able to get on the Tory express when it comes time to get your ticket.. the only one’s who will be on that train will be those of their own kind… from the golden gutter of society where money is the only status and you either have it or you don’t

      They can peddle utopian ideals and some might buy it, the idea you can still rise above and reach for the stars is not an ideal this coalition subscribes to when it comes to the people in the society they seek to rule and keep under the thumb. some of the things they say in the house are very provocative and also at times very naive in their belief,.. they are the minority regardless of their authority and money. I was hoping i would never see a another Tory government in power in my lifetime, then the hopeless aspect of choice cuts in.

      Maybe we should shove the lot into one big coalition and let them tear each other apart and those remaining will be the one’s in the top main coalition to run the country (chuckle).. but seriously people are finding all this tiring, and completely pointless, and that again is what the government aim for, for people to end up consuming each other in political conflict, whilst confusing people more and more, if they had their way they would be putting the mentally and physically disabled along with the unemployed on the same “To Do” list as the badgers and employ their buddies on a little shooting weekend for sport after a few drinkies. :-)

    • That is also what Ed Balls wanted, 100000 new homes.

  39. Houses built to fill housing demand in time of low economic output and over population will I am afraid, end up in the hands of buy to let landlords and property speculators as the buy price is too high while the wage is too low.
    The opposite of after a good war.
    Rents will stay high. Tenant Ownership will remain low.
    A decline in society inclusion and self pride and increase in crime are inevitable.
    And the economics wont add up..all those minimum wages wont power the taxes required for the rest of the infrastructure. Roads, rail, tubes,bridges, buses, water, sewage, waste sites, all will have to be paid for upfront of the yrs of meagre taxes coming in.
    PPI schemes will be involved to bridge the gap. Huge profits will be priced in . Large interest. By the time its paid, all these min wage workers will be claiming pensions, and relocated back home to mansions. Cameroon will be a footnote in the book of tosspot prime ministers of eurengland who became an m.e.p. cos he sold out his country.
    Winston should be rolling in his grave.

  40. And why is it that everybody who is a scrounger on the dole is known to have
    ‘a large flat screen t.v.’
    Personally, I vave a 17 inch p.c. monitor.
    I dont have a tv. I dont watch telly cos I dont want the screen tax, and can watch 1channel for nowt.
    But. Is there any other sort of t.v. anymore?
    26″ screen was huge in my day. There about 140 quid now.
    Are unemployed people supposed to buy a 19 inch telly for 110 quid cos they
    are unemployed? or spend the 200 bucks every 5 years on a thirty six inch screen from asda? Its like saying; Mr Smith is on the dole, but has a MOBILE PHONE, which he uses often !!
    I never hear anybody say ; Mr Smith is on the dole but has a socket 2011 intel work station with 2 zeon 8 core processors, two gtx 580 graphics cards in scaling link interface and a triple asus 22″ monitor setup in surround vision and spends all nite playing star wars the old republic,, so I can only conclude being a dole cheat doesnt equate to hi end electrical goods.
    Mr smith has a playstation worth 75 quid second hand and buys old games for
    2 quid from c.e.x. to while away some time.
    Anybody would think its a crime.
    Mr Smith.

    • If there is one thing i hate more than any other aspect is humble people and the way some people are reduced to thinking how little they deserve to have or feel they should prove to have in the twisted moralistic eye’s of some aspects of society today.. all this crap … shouldn’t have a flatscreen tv, there are many ways somebody may have acquired one and even a dish outside their home and it has no bearing on what they should and should not have because nobody knows how they acquired it and it is nobody’s business. On benefits or not. The reality of all this is simple.. you either fight on your feet or die on your knee’s and if this government is making you feel ever so grateful for what you have you are 50% already submissive to their agenda and requirements. You can have a flatscreen tv and not be rich you can have a dish outside and not have a full sky package..not any sky package!.. you may have worked once and got one but unemployed now. Or family got it for you… it’s rather like the “Closed Bedroom Curtains” comments of the chancellor, how dare he preach his platitudes.. a multi-milionaire as he flicks a few pound coins in your direction from his silk lined pockets.

      • ffs Moi, have you tried buying a telly these days that isn’t “flatscreen”?

        • Thats cos analogue tellys dont werk..

          • Bob, That is not fully true, they can be used with a set-top box and i’m sure many people still use that method, but it’s not because they are humble, it’s simple because it’s probably all they can afford or are happy with it until maybe better financial times come along. But to be judged upon what you have and have not can be very misleading and often quite wrong, else we can say everyone who owns their own home and claims benefits should not be doing so…. sell their house and rent!… there is another example in a different way. God help them if they own their own house, claim benefits and own both a flatscreen tv, have a dish outside and keep their curtains closed until well after 9am.

        • Exactly TC, but still we are getting these stereotype negatives being peddled by the government, it’s rather like saying every french person wears a striped top and a berry and a rides a bike with onions, Or every gay person must have aids so don’t shake their hands, we have come a long way from those ignorant and offensive times yet here and now in the 21st century we have a tory led coalition instilling some of the most equally offensive stereotypical propaganda that we felt had long gone back in the 20th century, it’s no coincidence it’s a tory government spouting it all but they would sooner it be said that if you have these things then you are not requiring help or are not on the breadline, and so they will try to influence the working classes that people in that position should be in dark dank cold and mouldy shitty private tenancy with a sadistic landlord increasing the rent each year as they sit on the only chair they might have with woodworm looking at the mould and water droplets running down some 1960’s wallpaper in a semi state of peeled off redecoration that never took place.

          They want to enforce a humble status upon society where the things you have and have not decitate judgements, they are trying to create a division between the working classes against anyone else who may just be claiming benefits whatever reason they might be doing so… and i mean on legit circumstances, to be honest this has far less to do with those who are on benefits illegally, that is a red herring but it’s being used as a means to persecute anyone who might be on benefits and that includes JSA, it may sound dramatic but in a way it’s a kind of quasi class genocide where we tear each other apart whilst they sit right back and enjoy this fear, anger, uncertainty and financial decline in the classes they have no interest in helping.. in short if you are not rich you are not in their world and that goes for a good majority of the working classes who don’t earn 70,000 or 100,000 and beyond per year after tax. There are many rich rich people in this country damaging it far more by living here and feeding off the country like a giant bloated parasite and paying no taxes here.. we have seen this recently bit it goes far wider and deeper than situations like Starbucks and Amazon.

    • Is it starting to be tantamount to a criminal offence as flat screen televisions look expensive, are streamlined and (sometimes) huge – so they’re an easy item to fixate on?. Not so long ago they were seen as something to really aspire to in some cases (a bit like a Mercedes?) – I think they were going to be ‘all singing/all dancing’ and you could access your computer through them (rather than the other way round?) then they would cook your tea for you if you programmed them properly.

      I’m guessing the idea of knocking the unemployed for owning anything large & technological started with an argument being made that if welfare ‘scroungers’ really don’t have enough to live on & dare to think they should be allowed more than a 1% benefit increase (freeze) over 3 years, for eg. then they should at least sell their home luxuries first. Not sure they;re supposed to buy smaller a telly instead, just to abstain from anything that might draw attention and suggest they might sometimes have ‘time out’ for relaxation – which is what everyone who ‘works hard’ is encouraged to do. They should probably spend their time sitting around in sackcloth & ashes instead (preferably out in the cold) …

  41. here! here! moi.

    • Well i got bored with ‘jenny’ afte five minutes of her phoney baloney act..

      Maybe freelancing at the daily heil doesnt pay that much..

      • I work for a company that is campaigning against the housing policies and putting benefit where it is most needed, the infirm and the true unemployed. I do not take a penny in wages. What I am against are the people who are robbing the state and the taxpayer, living off more than 30k if more when people I encounter live in shit houses and shit estates and the big tv has been bought in Brighthouse where they pay double.

        • And this company has a name that is registered at companies house i presume.,

          • Only because it is a charity that relies in donations and volunteers.

            • So… Its a company registerd at companies house because its a charity.,,weird.,
              Its either a registerd charity with a number .

              or.,, its a registred. Company .. With a number..

              Which is it??

              Your not very good at this are you?

              • I have never met IDS, yes I met Chris Grayling once and I’ve met Grant Schapps to ask him questions on housing.People are being pedantic, I volunteer for a not for profit organisation which is a charity in all but name, we have to be a limited company because of what we do, so if we get a lawsuit, they just close the thing down with no claim on anything.

                I do not receive a wage, nor am I rich. I go to sign on just like the rest. I’ve had a shit year because I cannot find work. I never said that everyone is bone idle, it is proven that there are, these words come from fellow claimants.

                Well KittyCat, if you have seen the work I do for people, making sure they get the benefits they want, make sure that the councils fix their homes, campaigning against the monthly benefits, against financial institutions looking after people’s money. I am against that but a recent pilot by a charity showed that was actually successful.

                I am against disabled workfare, because I have seen people with Down Syndrome knowing that DWP plan to close all the Remploy factories to save £20m. Before someone says research, yes, £120m per annum to run Remploy but they are recycling £100m to the Work Programme and throwing disabled people onto it. Whose side are you all on? If that is a bad thing, I challenge you to go and see what misery Remploy workers are facing because they are crying, real tears, not crocodile tears.

                • A company thats not a company but not a charity but not a charity thats a not for profit company thats so secret that no one must know who they are.

                  The web is amazing isnt it as you can google stuff and find stories and quote bits from them as if you had really been there..

                • ” ”There were quite a few people in tears. There are a lot of vulnerable people in there.”

                  Remploy workers.

                  Was it this item you got that from or any of the others that mention crying?

                  Tut tut..

                • Why would anyone suddenly thrown on the scrapheap cry crocodile tears?
                  Anyway.. What an odd thing to say..

            • This non paid job allows you to use a pc , so either you are using the firms pc or library pc and your home is a park bench and ppl give you money to buy food,
              Or god forbid you are claiming umm thingy.

            • See this is the weird thing because anti workfare groups campaign against non paid ppl working at companies., and registerd charities.. A bit like yourself., maybe you should campaign against your own company, but you will get fired but hey you’re not getting paid anyway..

          • FFS Bob Chewie, I did not steal an article.

            Where in any article does it reveal Remploy is totally closing.

            If you are that much of a conspiracy theorist, go to Roswell, you’d be welcome there with all the other nutters.

            Oops, was that Daily Mail, The Sun, Mirror, National Enquirer….believe what you want to believe, i don’t indulge in plagarism

          • 2 bob, always the conspiracy theorist, that is why you try to decipher whether i typed an s or a d or whether it is misspelt, Was it the Sun, Sky News, Evening Standard,and whirl your brain in a vortex…..the fact is a not for profit company, charity,well it is all them, but its legal status is a limited company with nil profit, because any left over is carried over. Bob Pedantic, fed up of your antics.

        • So you dont get paid and at same time concerned about the tax payer.,so i guess you are tax payer too, yet you dont get paid. Oh right..

          • I am a taxpayer in that I pay VAT on fuel, my shopping and to heat my house. I do not receive a wage for my work and yes, the Work Programme should be scrapped, call it Work Programme, Flexible New Deal, New Deal, it is all a waste of time and money. It will not change, whoever is in because it is the same policymakers.

          • Charity as in not for profit organisation. Yes i have a PC, from 2006 that is slow. I cannot afford a new one.

        • “true unemployed”… you mean are claiming “disability” for your bullshit “depression”, “stress” or whatever made-up illness which renders you unable to get off your lazy fat backside. You claim ESA, DLA, a free bus pass and whatever else you can lay your grubby hands on. Yet you resent those on jobseekers allowance because they aren’t the “true unemployed” are they? If it wasn’t for them there would be more money for the “true unemployed” . You want to see an end to benefits for the unemployed because you believe it would mean an increase in benefits for you. That’s the truth of the matter, isn’t it Jenny.

          • FFS, Maggie do you not get the gist. The true unemployed as in those who truly cannot work for one reason or another. I got lambasted for saying some people on sick benefits can work and now you lot are saying it’s all a con? You cannot have it both ways.

            I am talking about those who are truly ill, I for one do not believe in a nation of 35m, (30m working and 2.5m JSA, 1m sick, and 1.5m economically inactive) that 1m are sick, that means 3% of the nation are too ill. No I probably think 600k of you are taking the p. You deprive 300k of the truly ill. Maybe you have a poor leg, but that does not stop you from working.

            Out of those claiming JSA, there are maybe a small band of say 500k who cannot find work either because of social deprivation, or they simply do not want to work.

            I found someone work who had been written off, not worked for 2 years, and he is now earning about £16k, OK not great, but for once in his life, he can afford Christmas presents.

            I campaign for the 300k who are ill and the genuine 2m who are at least trying for work.

            I won’t campaign for the people who won’t work or for the other 600k shysters who are taking the money from people who need it.

            I am not anti immigration but only those who work should be here, Poles for example.

            It is time the country was reclaimed by workers who will work and those that cannot, entitled to what they can.

            • Very interesting point of view you have there janey. I guess in that equation you are including the ones that become ill asresult of being at work. You know those pesky annoying things called health and safety red tape stuff.
              Eg silly people falling off building sites scaffolding and.. Duh getting themselves killed or severely injured or working around toxic materials or cases of negligence and cover up and that all time favourite corporate manslaughter…

              So being sent to job a job and to get off benefits only to end up..er not well..

            • And those who want to work but cant because they have been blacklisted and the ones who are overqualified and the ones who dont look like they ‘fit in’ because they dont share the companied ‘vision’ and ones who dont work because… The lack of jobs.. Damn..how did that one get in there.

  42. Stop making more assumptions about what people have or where they bought it. There is no such thing as the deserving and undeserving poor – but we all know what the rich deserve and it’s not tax cuts.

  43. nobody wants to speak to you Jenny, your just a government lackey no matter which way you try to cut it. If you are so concerned about people get on the poverty marches and pin the name Jenny the donkey to it. That is another name for a donkey isn’t it?

    • Give me the fare and i will stand all day with a badge with Jenny the Donkey on it but nobody screws me again.

      • So when did all this attention seeking start?

      • Jenny, just give up & go away, you can’t even get your story straight. You’re obviously one of IDS’s goons so now you can go tittle-tattle about how ungrateful these bone-idle”scroungers” really are for receiving a few crumbs from the table

        • I have never met IDS, yes I met Chris Grayling once and I’ve met Grant Schapps to ask him questions on housing.People are being pedantic, I volunteer for a not for profit organisation which is a charity in all but name, we have to be a limited company because of what we do, so if we get a lawsuit, they just close the thing down with no claim on anything.

          I do not receive a wage, nor am I rich. I go to sign on just like the rest. I’ve had a shit year because I cannot find work. I never said that everyone is bone idle, it is proven that there are, these words come from fellow claimants.

          Well KittyCat, if you have seen the work I do for people, making sure they get the benefits they want, make sure that the councils fix their homes, campaigning against the monthly benefits, against financial institutions looking after people’s money. I am against that but a recent pilot by a charity showed that was actually successful.

          I am against disabled workfare, because I have seen people with Down Syndrome knowing that DWP plan to close all the Remploy factories to save £20m. Before someone says research, yes, £120m per annum to run Remploy but they are recycling £100m to the Work Programme and throwing disabled people onto it. Whose side are you all on? If that is a bad thing, I challenge you to go and see what misery Remploy workers are facing because they are crying, real tears, not crocodile tears.

  44. Do you mean you have actually been screwed?

    • What you mean screwed by jobmatch, they told me it was compulsory and now al I get is PPI company from Newcastle 0191 447 0255 ringing me every fackin day and all i want to tell them is pidd off but if I do, it means they know my number is legit.

      Screwed by having to sign on on 2 January and tell them yes I was searching for work on New Years Eve and if I don’t lie to them, they point at the Jobseekers Agreement so I say, I handed my CV in to Wetherspoons on New Years Eve and I made a call to Santa on Christmas Eve to see if he had jobs as an elf.

      Screwed, they can B&Q it.

  45. Stop trying justify yourself, you’re getting more & more shrill. As for the Remploy workers I am well aware of their situation,healthy able-bodied individuals cannot get jobs, so what chance do they have? As parent & sole carer of a teenager with ASD (autistic spectrum disorder) I am more aware than many, of the problems that those with mental health problems face. As for your unwanted phone calls, sign up for TPS.

  46. Interesting how the word “Violence” has been used, let us not forget when emotions run high and there are conflicts of opinion be them political or religious to name just two areas.. people can lose their intellect and end up surrendering to their base nature, through the years this has been proven, like a guy who got his head kicked in for being a paedophile by a mob out for blood in a group feeling angry and wanting some justice, it turned out the guy was a happily married man with kids and he was actually a paediatrician!, it did not stop a crowd out for blood turning up outside his house putting a brick through the window and giving him a beating to an inch of his life. We don’t want that happening any longer where some may feel too much information is a bad thing, reality is not enough can be just as bad and sometimes even worse!.. but ignorance is another matter altogether and god forbid us heading down that road!… when people feel bad they always want someone to blame and it’s important not to step back through the evolutionary timeline and display such behaviour.

  47. You need to watch this if your on JSA.

  48. throwatorydownsomesteps

    The fact that the government thinks that people will be on JSA for 3+ years says it all about how many jobs are in this country

    People are going to be permanently unemployed for possibly a decade.

  49. throwatorydownsomesteps

    *How many jobs are available

  50. Hey Jenny… let’s go back to that guy you claimed you got a job for at 16k per year, i guess that is before rather than after tax?, then of course he would be paying council tax or at least some, utilities, his rent or part, if he drives there is that expense, tv license, food, clothes, by the time all that and some more is covered he might just have enough to afford the wrapping paper for those crimbo prezzies around this time. Of course the feel good factor is greater than another 4k per year increase which i doubt he is likely to get any day soon. There are graveyards littered with dead people who unfortunately are victims of those who had the best of intentions for them but never quite checked the small print so to speak, people who trusted and took a leap in the dark on a promise and it turned out to be into an abyss and their grief was complete.

    • Wow

      I would like some of that message printed snd placed inside a christmas cracker..

    • Hear, hear, Moi. I took a job, in a chilled room despite suffering with psoriatic arthritis and pedal oedema, though this is not an issue because of the medication I am on, but I am lucky if I get 30 hours a week= around £200 a week, take home. Out of that, over £107 goes on rent and council tax, and I am lucky enough to have been given £1.85p a week housing benefit. Considering I go out at 6, come home in the early hours, have to get to work, not a lot of change compared to £71 Job Seekers Allowance. For 24-30 hours a week’s work? I am literally working for the same as I would get in benefits.

      Lowering benefits won’t help me; what it might do is hurt me when somebody on benefits cuts my pay by being willing to work for less; raising the tax threshold to £10,000 will only give me about £6-£7 a week more in my pocket. The only thing that will help me is paying me a decent hourly rate (= more tax for the government) and giving me a guaranteed minimum working week.

      They don’t want that though; keep us poor, keep us uneducated, keep us unhealthy, keep us grateful for what we have rather than inspirational for a better way of life; the Party of competition and ambition; the party of free market economy; why don’t the rules apply to me when I am selling my labour?

      • There seems to be a lot of bashing ppl with tegard to being too ill for work.
        Claiming they are fraudulent and bebefit scroungers. But overlooking ppl who become ill due to the nature of the work.
        And little or no regard to health and safety. In fact that matter is often regarded as a bloody nuisance and ‘red tape’

        Since this austerity or whatever it is i wonder how many jobs there are which one could drscribe as ‘not fit for purpose’

  51. We rent our flat screen TV, People could be using hire purchase, yet people are judging them on the tv, we have a satellite dish, when my brother was seriously long term ill he had to have it he couldnt go out was housebound, So Jenny/julie So are you in agreement with them, so are we to sit in the house doing nothing. Perhaps that guy down the street who you THINK is a benefit cheat.. thinks the same for you. I am unemployed i do everything i can to get a job. on agencies books, at the work programme with a4e. and they do nothing to get me a job. There are no placements in my town, because there thousands of people to my knowledge on the work programme in my home town.

    Your charity/company sounds dodgy

  52. I wouldn’t judge everybody on the TV they have or other things, I’m a bit of a tekie and I have a landlady who drops off TV’s, computers and suchlike at my place, because she owns a lot of houses, and people leave things when they move out. The computer monitor I’m using now is a 17″ LCD, this didn’t work when she dropped it off, but I found the fault (it had blown 6 electrolytic capacitors) I had 3 of the ones I needed on spare circuit boards I had lying around in my spares and had to purchase 3 from maplins at a cost of 31p each.

    So for 93p and 15 mins work I now have a fully working 17″ LCD monitor, priced this up and it cost £135 new. RESULT!

    So never judge on apperance until you know the story behind why people have nice stuff even though their on benefits.

  53. Having an economy that openly states there is no job for you, and blaming it on the minimum wage which is a pittance and then stops your only means of subsistence, is criminal, therefore if the said sanctioned people turn to crime to feed themselves and pay their housing and bills nobody has the right to judge them. The government on the other hand should be met with a vote of no confidence in their governance, but remember Labour were the first to sanction people.

    • Why not do away with the government and let each individual council run their own area’s.

      I know this isn’t a practicle idea, but it would be interesting to see the resulting chaos.

    • @
      @guy fawkes did you see the link i posted about ncvo and payment by results flaws and pdf about concerns that were raised in the
      Work program contracting??

      I hope JV and others note.. Seems there were a lot of concerns raised at the time.

      Maybe everyone is asleep..

      “Concerns
      1. The prime contract ‘Framework’
      DWP chose 18 prime contractors to deliver 40 Work Programme contracts across England and Wales. Of the 18 organisations chosen only two are CSOs. Of the 40 prime contracts offered by DWP only three were awarded to the civil society sector leaving 35 – or 88% – going to private sector organisations.
      According to DWP, tenders were assessed according to their ‘quality’ and ‘price’ with each component afforded equal weighting. Despite these assurances there are widespread concerns that far more premium was placed on price. There are also concerns throughout the welfare-to-work sector that much of the potential profit of Work Programme contracts was lost through the ‘bidding wars’ that took place during the tendering stage with some bids allegedly up to 50 per cent below the DWP maximum price. This arguably casts doubt over the ability of primes to pass sufficient funds onto sub-contractors. If both primes in an area have adopted this strategy, this leaves responsible sub-contractors in an area with no financially viable way of taking part in the Work Programme, losing their expertise.
      Due to the results-based payment model of the Work Programme, primes chosen for the Framework needed to display an annual turnover of at least £20 million and the financial capacity to deliver large contracts that require significant cash-flow. This scale enables – and requires – primes to shoulder the upfront and transitional costs associated with an outcomes based model. The size and complexity of the Work Programme contracts has excluded many CSOs from bidding to be a prime due to their relatively small reserves and limited access to capital. This has potentially led to a great deal of expertise and experience being lost. Furthermore, being excluded from the Framework has prevented some CSOs from becoming primes on other welfare-to-work programmes which demand far less financial capacity, such as the ESF Families programme.
      There is a concern that there is too much emphasis on using CSOs for service delivery rather than the wider commissioning, design and evaluation process. NCVO has long advocated that the role of CSOs should extend beyond the mere delivery of public services. Their connection with the community they serve and their capacity to engage with marginalised groups means that they have a much larger and more important role to play in shaping the overall design of services.”

  54. I agree Obi we could well do without a centralized or a Federal government, but we need to change those that are at present working in local bodies who have proved to be as cruel as those nationally.

  55. We have to face the fact that the current government (Lib Dems and Conservatives) are making deals with each so both manifesto’s are given part vilification on both sides, in other words deals are being made behind closed doors that will affect everyone living in the UK from unelected parties.

    Governments are NOT about interparty deal making, they are there for the good of the public of the UK and to promote initatives abroad that contribute to the profitability of our country and therefore create well paying jobs for everyone.

    This CON -DEM Coalition is looking out for themselves and the wealthest, certainly not this country as a whole.

    This comment is soley aimed at Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second:

    M’aam you have the power to dissolve Parliament, I would earge you to do this at your earliest convenience, as the present coalition government are making stuff up as they go along, ignoring your subjects (the general public) and ploughing ahead with ill thought out idea’s and putting your realm on course for an incredibly miserable future.

    • This country cannot take another sixteen years of power with either a coalition led by the tories or the tories in complete control, there is still a very big fear this could happen if the current climate does not change. For better or for worse it’s logical to always know we are either getting Conservative rule or Labour rule with or without coalition partners, obviously we shall never see a Conservative/Labour coalition, had that been possible it would have happened at the last election… so what is the best compromise?… i think this coalition is proving to be a fascist tory led coalition with a weak partner who has no strength as such and cannot be looked upon as credible due to the manner they sold out their voters and got into bed with the tories so willingly and how it was proven. Many people may say that no one party deserves total leadership of the country and that simply reflects the confusion amongst the voters or simply not enough people going out to vote or people still adopt tactical voting based upon constituency.

      No matter, the reality is what we face today, and we know there is only one class of society who would be happy and they are certainly not the majority that is for sure, but it reflects how disillusioned people of this country may have become when it comes to registering their vote, it’s pretty much feels like a rattlesnake in a lucky dip situation, so many people don’t vote which is the biggest shame of this democratic right. Yes choice is little, and policies can often be mere utopian ideals rather than in the realms of possible reality in the process of campaigning, but it is important to remember when that time comes we can change the tide unlike some countries where voting is just mere window dressing.. an illusion that some levels of democratic rights exists. It’s one man/woman, one vote… women fought hard to get the right to vote, important to remember that, but more importantly more people should vote when they can, not enough do. Can you imagine if the right was taken away, everyone would be up in arms, including those who don’t even bother to do so… human nature can sometimes be a fickle thing.

  56. well paying jobs have only ever been for the middle and upper classes in this country, yet most of the real hard work has been done by semi and unskilled labour, the one that according to the right does not need to be paid a decent wage because there are so many of them. Well let them lay their own roads, build their own hospitals and other public works. We need local government only to deal with local need and deals abroad to benefit the community. None in this local government should be in positions of power for longer than 2 years to avoid corruption and be elected by the people of the said town or city. Any dealings abroad should like here be with ethical companies that pay all a living wage and should not be based on a meritocracy. The way to reward those who are need skills for their job is to make education free and grants while people are training – not to reward them for their career choices, they can always go and work down a sewer or a mine rather than opt for skilled jobs.

  57. Cameron and Co, living it up , Cleggy and Co are like pilot fish, living off the scraps of the Conserative’s and we are the pawns inbetween, who can’t even get one scrap, – Thats the bloody truth.

  58. I am, nor ever would be affiliated to any political party unless it can prove to benefit the whole of society ,not certain sectors of governance built on party membership, private money or nepotism. The only Utopianism I see is within the capitalist system that allows those that are financially enriched, who live lavish lifestyles, who think the world is their playground or is there for them to exploit or rape of it’s produce and labour, is what could be termed as a utopian existence, and What the Americans call ‘ the American Dream’, which has turned into a nightmare for two thirds of Americans.

    To want real democracy is not asking for a Utopia, only for fairness within society At the moment democracy is being exercised by voters who are refusing to vote, knowing no matter which party you vote for you are voting for more of the same, with the exception of UKIP who want a referendum to take us out of Europe, but have few other redeeming policies to enact fairness within society.

  59. who said ukip was inclusive? certainly not me.

  60. I cannot get beyond the first page of your link which is probably a pdf file, but it states on the first page it’s a report about problems with civil society programmes, which does not surprise me due to the fact we are such a divided society at present, perhaps you can enlighten me with what this document entails regarding it’s findings.

  61. I have googled NCVO and found only an almanac no pdf file, but surely civil societies should not be based on voluntary work anyway, people should not be forced to work for anything less than a living wage in civil/civic society.

  62. Chewie

    I have downloaded but not read yet the pdf file I’m not sure I want to read what has been 10 years of planning against the low paid and benefit claimants. It’s a report about problems with civil society programmes, which does not surprise me given that they are expecting funding to remain what they call independent, independent of what? the state funding people who should have a safety net against sickness/ unemployment being forced to perform civic works in the name of volunteering/charity or starve. In answer to you question regarding UKIP the only thing I would agree with them on is getting out of Europe, we already have one tier of government too many with national government as far as I am concerned, and I am not homophobic.

    • Ok civil soceities are charities voluntary orgs .. Its just a fancy word..

      The website link where the pdf came was all sbout payment by results issues.. Do you follow me now? Dodgy contracts and all that stuff..
      The site and pdf is all about the payment by tesults problems which are bloody many..

      Re UkIp europe .. They are stupid, eu directive was about all eu countries being allowed to protect home grown produce eg stilton cheese etc guess which party voted against it? Ukip.. Well done .. Idiots

  63. Out of Europe we could protect home grown stilton etc. even better. You do not have to be aligned to a continent to trade with it.

    • Well

      There is ECHR our lot wouldnt have such a thing.. Its the johnny foregner bashing i hate , little englander..

      Anyway it was that pay by results stuff i was trying to figure out.

  64. Obviously the pay by results stuff like all tory and labour government initiatives are all cons, designed to enrich the provider by denying the recipient of benefits.

  65. Well

    Exactly and it puts out of work those who did the job before when it was public service job.

  66. Exactly!!!!

  67. Back to the European convention on human rights. That has put the clock back years for women, when it ruled in favour of making women work until 65 rather than granting the red herring token man the right to retire at 60 as women do, despite the fact that employers are rarely employing the over 50s never mind the over 60s, this leaves unemployed women as well as men on ever decreasing benefits, facing evictions from their homes and at the mercy of exploitative charities or wp providers, leaving the dames of society picking up their pensions and allowances from the house of lords and keeping upper class harridans in high paying employment longer.

    Then we have Cait Riley who appealed to the court of human rights to be allowed to only take employment in the field she was university trained for – she too was denied this right by the European court and told to accept any job. I do not agree with a meritocracy as far as higher incomes go but I do agree that people should work in the field they were trained for or an equivalent. Universities should be teaching professions that are needed in society instead of getting students into debt for useless degrees.

    God knows what the tories have in store for human rights either, but the only person that benefited from Europe was Abu Hamza initially.

  68. Didn’t you mean “…keeping upper class harridans in high paying nonemployment longer.” ?

  69. They pretend at being employed in their husbands constituencies or sat on the boards of businesses, failing that they are highly paid as patrons for charities, work programs or community based social work that needs a so called womans touch. Their callous greed demeans their sex.

  70. Voting? Hmmm?

    Whoever you vote for the government still gets in!

  71. Pingback: 2012: A Year of Lies and Blunders at the DWP Part 2 | the void

  72. Another one bites the dust. Sense charity shops pulled out of the scheme last Friday. Many jobseekers will arrive at their mwa placements today, Monday 28th January, to be asked to go home as their head office has instructed them that they have pulled out and no longer want those working on mwa to be working in their shops.

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