Deborah Orr and Iain Duncan Smith – Two Sides of the Same Coin

There is nothing more vile than the rich lecturing the rest of us about what it means to be poor.  Whether it comes from a chinless failure like IDS, who sponges off his wife’s wealth, or a liberal hack like Deborah Orr, who sponges off her husband’s book royalties, it is the most contemptible trait of the so called chattering classes that they think they know anything at all about our lives.

Couched as it is in crass liberal piety, Deborah Orr’s column in The Guardian today exposes the truth about what fake left liberals truly think of those who haven’t reached their latte slurping heights.  The concept of the deserving and undeserving poor is just as entrenched amongst humous guzzling Clapham (or in Orr’s care, edgy Stockwell) yummy mummys and flash daddys as it is in any Knightsbridge drinking club.

Orr has deigned to speak of the lower classes today in order to offer a tacit defence of Iain Duncan Smith’s attempt to rebrand poverty as a moral failing.

In an attempt to demonstrate she isn’t a vile old Tory, Orr points out that a life of minimum wage work is hardly an aspiration, unlike Iain Duncan Smith’s work makes you free mantra.  She stops far short of calling for higher wages though (wonder how much she pays her cleaner?).  Instead she declares:  “Duncan Smith’s indicators invite consideration of how the poorest can truly be motivated.”

Nothing else she says before or after this statement really matters.  She has clearly decided in her Chablis addled mind that all the poor need to do is motivate themselves and their problems will disappear.

Iain Duncan Smith announced this week that he will abandon the internationally agreed definition of poverty, which is calculated according to how much money someone has compared to everyone else.  Instead he has come up with yet another hare-brained scheme which attempts to shift the blame of poverty firmly onto those who are poor.

Along with the predictable ‘worklessness’, the new Tory speak for unemployment, IDS claims that family breakdown, poor health, low educational attainment, addiction and debt are the new causes of child poverty.

Yet even the richest in society can suffer from all of these  so called moral failings including worklessness.  Deborah Orr is a prime example.  She seems to think that writing the occasional shit column for The Guardian, whilst her husband – the public school then Oxford educated Will Self – spunks out the odd book and is sometimes on the telly, means they have proper jobs.

Worklessness infects the cosy media elite, with their army of underpaid child minders and  cleaners, far more than the rest of us who have to clean up our own shit and look after our our own kids.

As for the other new indicators of poverty, poor health can happen to anyone, and at some point is likely to happen to everyone.  Millionaires can run up huge debts whilst the divorce courts are full of squabbling Tarquins and Jemimas ripping each other apart over who gets to keep the fucking chandelier.  Deborah Orr’s own husband spent a large part of his earlier arduous career as a Guardian journalist shooting up smack.

The question is how these social problems, which cut across the classes, impact on people’s lives.  And that is down to how much money people have.

When kids who’ve lost EMA can no longer afford books and fares to school or College, their poverty has nothing to do with poor educational attainment.  Their poor educational attainment is down to the fact they’ve got no fucking money.  When people’s health is worsened because they can’t afford good food, warm homes, or their local hospital has closed down, that  is down to simple lack of cash.

If couples split up because of arguments over money, or because the benefit system increasingly pays people to be apart – something that will get much worse when next year’s benefit cap for families is introduced – they are placed under that pressure because they are skint.  When families run up huge debts with loan sharks because they can’t pay the heating bill, then that debt is merely a symptom of having no money, not the initial cause.

People on sickness or disability benefits are not poor because they are unmotivated, or even because they are sick or disabled.  Lots of rich people are sick or disabled.  They are poor because society no longer has the decency to ensure those who can’t work due to illness or disability are paid a livable income.

And whilst a cosy spell in The Priory may be enough to confine youthful drug addiction to a scary dinner party anecdote amongst the pampered middle classes, shit housing, shit benefits, and shit treatment services mean the reality is very different if you are poor.  And by poor I mean have no money, which is what poor means.

The endless jumping through intellectual hoops in an effort to redefine poverty that comes from both liberals and tories is rooted in the same entrenched sense of class entitlement.  Neither wishes to acknowledge their own privilege and instead insist they are in such a cosy position because they are simply wonderful examples of human beings who’ve worked hard and are very clever.  Both sides overlook the structures in society which create both mass poverty and their own affluent lifestyles.  And both sides, just like  Deborah Orr and Iain Duncan Smith, send their children to private school to pass on their social privilege.

They will both connive to maintain this privilege, insisting that society can’t be organised any other way and all the poor need to do is pull their socks up and stop whining.  As Deborah Orr herself said, protesting about the cuts is a waste of time.

And both, whether openly expressed, or snidely insinuated, believe that those with least are responsible for their poverty – because if people stop blaming the poor, then they might start blaming the rich.  And even the most mung bean sprouting, Big Issue buying, politically correct and oh so concerned affluent liberal knows instinctively whose side they are really on in the class war.

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60 responses to “Deborah Orr and Iain Duncan Smith – Two Sides of the Same Coin

  1. What a brilliant post – the middle class hate the working class for being poor and the upper class for not only being richer but holding most of the power. As I’ve stated before the middle class are nothing but working class turncoats who stick up their self righteous noses at the poor working class then dictate to them via social policing.

  2. Iain Duncan Orr – we could certainly have some fun with that!

  3. It’s meritocracy she’s addled by. It justifies elites, the notion that people are where they are because they deserve to be, because it’s what they earned. Of course once you’ve digested that shite, you look upon the poor and what they’ve ‘earned’ with outright disgust and view them as a problem to be fixed.

  4. Beyond excellent – a tour de force

  5. Reblogged this on Exiled Stardust and commented:
    Brilliant analysis of why the middle class hate the poor.

  6. Been following her Guardian column for a while,
    and she’s right up my ‘Wall List’ come the glorious day.

  7. Good post.

  8. The single scariest passage in her column is :”Duncan Smith’s indicators invite consideration of how the poorest can truly be motivated.” Well IDS’s ideas are well known – starve the unemployed into work, and if they can’t find work force them into workfare on pain of sanctions. There is no carrot, only stick here for the poor, as always. And as a side note have you noticed the arguments for “insentivising” people to work harder differ depending on the wealth of the people in question? The rich need to be given tax-cuts and bonuses to get them to work harder, while the poor and vulnerable are threatened with starvation. Ms Orr’s “blue-sky thinking” is only going to invite a response in the form of further punitive, sanction-riddled measures from politicians, and they will no doubt be cheered on by the hairy arsed brigade and Daily Mail reading clique.

  9. well written , to add to that the government and big business outsource their works to cheap labour in foriegn countries that would be better done here in Britain. Buisnesses are bringing this country down so they can make mass profits. then they criticise unemployed here, why because we’d want a fair livable days pay, and they dont want to pay it.. I currently dont work due to health. but when i did , most of my money went on busfairs and living , not pleasures. at the end of the day what is happening in here and in Europe is that capitalism/greed is eating itself up (capitalism would work if the profits went down the chain of command in a fairer fashion). i have achieved in my life (served in Bosnia(though missed the fighting to be honest) , was in TA., did sports and did medical covers here and abroad as well as training exercises, Njmegan 4 days march, and endurance marching with full kit competitions), I’m a 5ft 2 woman lol, Considering the upbringing i had and some of the places where i lived and was bullied. ie Meadowell estate, because my mother reported motor bikers for driving on paths and greens, i was bullied, because i didnt have money (my fashion was outdated, err i only wore my 3 sisters had me downs and was only allowed 1 bath a week) i was bullied. because my parents divorced,,bullying pulls your spirits down and long term it kills some. its called oppression. but in a different form. this government is criminalising illness sickness and depression and futher oppressing the sick and the poor, but hey the top class live behind gated guarded properties, they ain’t worrying as kid if all their windows are gonna be put out,. sad thing is people oppress each other and blame each other instead of waking up and realising if they help each other no matter the class the world will be a better place for it. life experiences effect who you become, for me i have battled with rage and anger and never feel; heard or loved or encouraged (well at least without a hint of being be-littled or put down futher). that is how its effected me, in turn it effected my work, i always feel i never got support and that somehow i as a child an adult was somehow to blame for my family life, where i was born, the fact i was bullied and couldnt deal with it. I was a thatcher child. but labour is no better now.All or most of the politicians have their fingers in the very buisness pies that are outsourcing . this country is not lead by ordinary people, but the rich elite. Wouldnt it make sense to buisnesses if they kept the jobs here, paid their staff a good wage for hard work done (take a bit less profit for their posh cars and doggy costumes lol). that way their workers can afford more, this in turn means more production as more of us can afford it, less people would resort to crime. more jobs would be created , a better economy would happen, but no business wants to take its money and British wealth out of the country, then avoid paying taxes, then blame the British unemployed or the sick for all the problems. well no they are the problems. always look up when things go wrong not down.. Globalisation has failed us in a lot of regards. i know some stuff has to be global to balance the earths resources. but phone business is not one of them , fashion and clothing and manufacturing should be done here. for here, and yes we can buy what not available here, but if we can grow it/produce it here it should stay here, cost less fuel/uses less fuel to distribute/ transport good this way. ‘m a poor person, but not un-intelligent, if i can see this, and i know others can see this how comes it doesnt happen. answer GREED AND CORRUPTION (that is well disguised from ordinary working /poor people)

  10. Blue skies thinking and right wing social policy making are all done by the middle class in an effort to ingratiate themselves with and obtain a rise up the social ladder from the upper classes.

  11. Not to come across as a brown-noser, but this is one of your best ever posts! Everything you said is on the money (no pun intended). All of life’s problems are excacerbated by being poor (and are often caused by poverty). No amount of false moralising by the rich will change that.

    We will, I fear, continue down the slippery slope of “deserving” and “undeserving” poor. And worse still, virtually all of the poor will inevitably end up in the “undeserving” category. What next I wonder? Workhouse?

  12. A well written polemic that still does not answer the central and enduring question. How do you motivate the poor? Or to put it delicately, how do reduce poverty? I would be interested in your answers. Yes, we can say “not the Tories”, but what is the positive programme you suggest?

    Here is what has already been tried. http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/media/cabinetoffice/strategy/assets/deprived_areas.pdf
    This was from 2005, when the economy was still growing. Look in particular at the cycle highlighted on page 44. What do you propose to break that cycle in an economy that is contracting?

    The key, it would appear, is getting people into employment. The employment has to be more than minimum wage, or they remain trapped in the cycle of poverty. http://www.jrf.org.uk/system/files/poverty-employment-lowpay-summary.pdf So how do we get poor people, people with low skills, and low expectations, into jobs? How do we “motivate them”? By all means, call out IDS, by all means call out Deborah Orr. Yet, at the end of that journey, we return to the same question that haunted Tony Blair and haunts IDS, “How do we reduce poverty?”

    The choice is clear, you can continue to tear into IDS and Deborah Orr and rehash the class warfare slogans of the past and present, or you can step up, present an alternative, and work for a positive future. The choice is yours. Will you turn your obvious and abundant talents to a positive or a negative goal?

    • Get real you crass apologist. And get a kalashnikov if you want change in this gangster/bankster/toff/aristo perverted nation-state.

    • The employment has to exist, never mind what it pays. We have not had full employment for more than three decades. It does not matter how motivated ‘the poor’ are, if there are not enough jobs for everyone, someone will be unemployed. Increasing motivation will not reduce unemployment, just make getting a job even more competitive.

  13. I have loads of ideas for that. I have visitors now, so cant say, but its basically what I have explored for years. Welfare is an important economic tool which we use in entirely the wrong way. I’ll comment tomorrow.

  14. The only “sky-blue” thing about Ms Orr is the vast space between her ears.

  15. “But those who just don’t see that time ever coming do see – how could they not? – that the only way to attract political interest in their own poverty is to have a child.”

    YES. THAT’S RIGHT DEBBIE. PEOPLE WITH NO MONEY HAVE KIDS PURELY IN ORDER TO ‘ATTRACT POLITICAL INTEREST IN THEIR OWN POVERTY’. GOT IT IN ONE THERE DEBBIE. RIGHT ON!

    Fucking idiot.

  16. Although I feel I have commented enough I just had to reply to Lawrence Serewicz .
    Who said the poor had either low skills or low expectations? What they lack is privilege and advantage.
    More people are in secure jobs more by nepotism than talent or suitability for the job. When you talk of motivation or aspiration which the middle class have in abundance , it is more to do with who you are prepared to crawl over to get to the top, as the saying goes scum always rises to the top and I know the working class have more principles and culture than these jumped up middle class competetive nobodies who are prepared to let anyone bring up their children so long as they are chasing a better job or a higher salary and expect everyone else to live by their principles and social mores/manners, personally I think their ideology stinks give me working class values any day.
    There is no way to break the cycle of poverty in a global market when you are competing with countries that are exploited for their work ethic and low running costs. The idle rich in this country are investing abroad and sitting back reaping the profits while they watch the unemployed here get pilloried and sanctioned then you have the likes of Martin Kettle, the guardian journalist saying as the economy worsens the poor will just have to learn to co-exist with the rich, like hell they do.
    Your closing statement now praising our abundant talents you earlier said the working class lack, asks for positive answers because the likes of the mindless middle class want to pick our brains then pass them off as their own as has happened down the centuries, stealing other more modest peoples good ideas to benefit their ambitious selves.

    • @Guy Fawkes, I would also like to add, it is not just the lack of opportunities that does not allow the most talented to rise to the top but the type of employment that those of us that reside at the bottom tend to opt for. In my experience it is often the case that people that come from deprived backgrounds chose opportunities that support our Communities, which help to make the world a brighter place. I am thinking specifically of Nurse’s, Teachers, Social Workers and Caring in general. Our troops are also made up of largely lads that are not from the Middle, neither are our police and prison wardens. These are exactly the type of employments that are being squeezed the life out of, the ones that directly affect us and are being made impossible to get employment in. This policy will eventually remove the life blood from our communities and our children will be made the dumber for it. Whatever you may think of these professions they all have value.

  17. Sorry johnny for answering the pretentious Mr Serewicz on your behalf, its your blogg and you can speak for yourself.

  18. Maybe time to look at somekind of alternative way of living, as the one we have ain’t working!!!.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-20358557

    Been thinking about this for many a long year!.

  19. Will Self : likes to brag about hiw he smoked heroin on a plane full of ‘correspondents’ (presstitutes) and how he loved crack once upon a time.
    A louche libertarian who is to literature what IDS is to the poor.
    One more spoiled fucker with a wife who’s obviously attracted to the cruelty of the Tory right……probably an alcoholic addict without the self awareness…no pun intended.
    Crass cunts with no social awareness who like ‘slumming’and fucking the poor, literally, figuratively and metaphorically. Indicative of the supine ad bewildered state of the British pseudo-intellectual Left.
    Revolution is required. Off with their spectacularly shallow heads.

  20. As long as we characterise by “the poor” we are missing the truth, and therefore will fail. When will this polarisation of society end? If those holding the reins these days have their way, never, because the divisions cause more to flow to those that already have, making life for those without power harder, and harder, and harder…

    There is no “the poor” there are people, and we need to eat, and have a roof, keep warm in winter and be able to access information and society, yet these freedoms are just what is being yet further taken away. In the beginning the world belonged to everyone, and land was free to wander over, to grow food, to build on. Then people who were prepared to use violence grabbed it all, piece by piece, and excluded the gentle, the honest, the kind. Yet somehow it’s our fault? Really? Blame the victim, why don’t you.

    We need a progressive taxation system, where those with more contribute a greater percentage of what they have (they will still have plenty left) and those with too little are automatically given extra. The income tax system could easily do this. Council tax bandings should be extended upwards to infinity…but turkeys don’t vote for Christmas, do they? Specially fat, comfortable, smug turkeys like those that work in Westminister.

    ps Lawrence Serewicz, that policy document disgusts me. Give us the tools, and we’ll do the job. Stop playing ubermench. You convince no-one.

  21. I wish I could edit. ” Give us the tools, and we’ll do the job. Stop playing ubermench.” should be ” Give us back our tools, and we’ll do the job. Stop playing ubermench.”

  22. Try a book by another Will, Will Hutton called the’ State were in’, on page 172 he states inequality hurts us all, and I quote, ‘ inequality, it is said is the price that has to be paid for economic efficiency. The argument is that attempts to divide the pie more equally simply shrink it – and conversely, the more unequally the pie is divided the bigger it will grow. A capitalist society is by it’s nature unequal and so faces a trade-off: the more unequal it is the more economically efficient it becomes. Without the incentives offered by inequality, either as a reward or PUNISHMENT, a capitalist system simply loses it’s dynamism.’
    That is why capitalism as social, political and economic system is divisive at the very least and down right cruel at it’s best and why we most certainly do not have to sit back and accept an unfair system – we need change.

    • “a capitalist system simply loses it’s dynamism.’”

      guy fawkes,

      In my opinion….Its all to do with the preparation for the running out of global resources, some say there is one hundred years left, some say fifty years left, I tend to think it is nearer the fifty years, could be a lot less ?. Under the “capitalist system” that means big trouble for a “capitalist system”, people will turn to a more left system, it will indeed be a major shift to the left. The powers that be know this, they are not under ANY circumstances going to allow that to happen, that is not in their intrest.
      They are at this moment creating an environment of mayhem as an excuse to impose a system that will stop that from happening, science and technology have given them the power to accomplish this, it will slide evermore to a much more brutal form of authoritarian rule. As any good decorater will tell you “preparation is nine tenths of the job”…

      1) Collapse of the global financial system.
      2) Declared state of emergency here in the UK.
      3) The forming of a tri-party government in the UK.
      4) Suspended elections (until after the emergency).
      4) The rounding up of dissidents/agitators, etc, trials and…

      I think we will not have long to find out…

      http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/08/20/amerikas-future-death-paul-craig-roberts/

      “In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way”

      Franklin D. Roosevelt 1882-1945.

      Just my opinion, for what it is worth.

  23. Eric Greenwood (4727)

    The tax system is wrong, Billions of pounds not got by the state, far far far more than any that have been allegedly claimed by fraud, Vodaphone, Starbucks, Amazon.. I say pay 25% tax flat rate for everyone. close all loop holes, You earn 100,000 you give 25,000, earn more pay more but the ratio will remain the same. businesses, they have to hire pay more in business taxes unless they hire the unemployed/long term then they pay a little less. the money raked in by the state could pay the welfare/sick of everyone.

    Keep smokers, keep drinkers, legalise prostitution run medical and health checks, and tax it, legalise drugs, tax it set up certain controls.. Crime then falls. less money needed for the police as less crime. then you wouldnt need the PCC, or the layers and layers of red tape that costs money. Stop all these tax havens. Use road tax to fix the roads, nationalise the rail, the post office make them run not for profit, I am not saying pay the managers NMW, but pay them less than they get now, No one deserves 200k plus wages. Let the mps come from the people they must have been resident in the area for x amount of years abolish all political parties, Lets have a true democracy rather people voting for a party because they always have. Limit the amount of time an mp can serve to 4 terms, limit PM’s to 2 terms. so there is a consistency but no one has more power. All this would make people’s lives easier.. well would make the middle and lower classes better the rich well they will hate it. Just a few ideas. Let people who want to marry get married, if thats male and female, male male, female female, or even in poly groups. Let people live how they wish so long as it hurts no one else.

  24. Eric Greenwood (4727)

    Housing, set up a true retraining, get the unemployed electricians, builders to actually build a house, sell it use profits to buy more land to build more, self sustaining housing.use these building charities to train up those who arent academically clever.. Make it a meritocracy, education is good, but if you cant use it then its useless. Too many degree courses and afterwards the students need to go on extra courses on how to read/write.

  25. Eric Greenwood (4727)

    The comment i made about smokers, well let pubs decide if they want to have smoking or non smoking, let the pub owners decide what they want to do. No one forced into going to a smoking pub, if they dont smoke. Let people have a choice. set up a good transport infrastructure, buses, trains, trams. If they dont run on time fine the managers for not making them run on time. same with the post that will incentivise them into making things run on time and more efficiently, Keep the national minimum wage, use some of the money the extra tax businesses have to pay to pay for the roads as they deliver more things (not sure if they do it now but transport businesses who use the roads to deliver food make sure that money goes to the roads). Have a nationalised truly independent tv station, stating the news without bias, without pandering to one side which goes to the political change. If we must have a olympics have it central so that everyone can visit if they wish. rather than at one end of the country. whats the point is building another set, and another repeatedly when you can build ONE giant place with everything you need.

  26. Iain Duncan Smith is going to be on Question Time this week , Thursday 22nd November – BBC1 10:35pm.

    • 🎶🍀💔🍀🎶

      Well….what an opportunity.
      But…..given he has, through his practice of black magic, reached demonic status, I would imagine security will be very very tight.
      They won’t want him doing to too much damage as he snarls and manipulates his dark incantations throughout the programme.
      Remember him/it last time? He was just getting going then and yet the evil emanating from him, even at the remove of a tv screen was palpable.
      But go he must…and soon…or we are all in the mire and murk for a very very long time indeed.

  27. In answer to Eric Greenwood: Did you read the end of jv’s post i.e. the middle class side with the rich not the poor. Today on the politics show we see Vince Cable admit that if he can get a wealth tax (not an income tax) on the rich passed, he would agree to more welfare cuts for the poorest in society. Local councils in the N.E are being given millions as discretion payments next year to help with withdrawal of housing benefit due to underoccupancy or for the under 25′s which according to councils makes you a vulnerable adult facing eviction for arrears if you cannot pay, yet the councils have decided to cut help for vulnerable adults and children – disgusting terminology anyway, that should be robbed adults and children by both local and national government.
    Denying prisoners the vote is also a vote against democracy which just goes to prove that they are missing nothing by not voting for any of these undemocratic parties anyway.
    The tax on the rich will be used to provide more work in the public sector/ and social workers to police the retro swinging sixties lifestyle your advocating, as I indulge in none of those things it does not bother me but I do believe that in a more democratic society you would have more of a chance of legalizing the liberal policies that you espouse in your comments.

  28. Has every one on JSA downloaded this document? IF NOT YOU REALLY NEED TO RIGHT NOW. Go to the link below.

    http://cdn.consent.me.uk/universal-jobmatch-jobcentre-notes.pdf

  29. I would just like to reply to Annos I do believe that resources will be scarce in future years but new technologies and agricultural advances would probably prevent an apocalypse. I liked your Franklin D. Roosevelt quote especially as after the wall street crash in the 1930′s he manipulated the NEW DEAL work programme to acquire votes by paying workers in the states he wanted to win more dollars per hour, read the historians view in ‘new deal or raw deal’ by Burton Fulsom. I am pleased I read it not that I agreed with it all ,but it is interesting to note that the book I am reading now ‘Occupy the economy’ challenging capitalism, by Richard Wolff is advocating new deal type work programmes as a way of getting the unemployed in America back to work in an effort to alleviate the national debt – the organization occupy in America is buying up bad debt from the banks out of donations and writing off peoples debts for student loans, medical fees, mortgage etc., again something I do not agree with, Occupy was supposed to be an organization fighting for political and economic change and the funds should be used to help mobilize protesters not pay off personal debts. It could be a never ending commitment to pay off debt and wily bankers would probably up the cost of the bad debts anyway.

    • “– the organization occupy in America is buying up bad debt from the banks out of donations and writing off peoples debts for student loans, medical fees, mortgage etc” – that’s just nuts! For example paying off a mortgage ffs, that’s like getting a property for free, a valuable asset, you could even “leverage” and expand your fucking “buy-to-let” portfolio. This “Occupy” nonsense is just a load of middle-class shit!

    • And it will be poor people, living in trailer parks and working minimum wage to will be doing the “donating” naively thinking they are “getting one over on the ‘bankers’”; handing over what little they have to pay the students debts and mortgages of middle-class cunts who enjoy opportunities and a lifestyle they can only dream of.

  30. Orr & Drunken Smith style themselves as intellectuals but there is a world of difference between that & actual intelligence. Intelligence would mean that they would see that grinding the poor’s noses even further into the dirt is not only counter-productive, in as much it means there’s even less money being spent,but downright twisted & cruel.

  31. “Cartoon comparing aristocratic consumption with workers poverty 1909″

    http://gdl.cdlr.strath.ac.uk/redclyde/images/redcly083.jpg

    All three main parties call the above… “The Good old Days”.

  32. @Obi-wan-Kenobi can we just correct you on a few matters regarding Iain Duncan Smith. Firstly the man is a practicing christian and only recently did former archibishop carey call him a ‘ fine christian man’. i would suggest rather than using your somewhat dualistic star wars framework with which to view the world, it may be a good idea , however in jest your comment was meant, For you to do some research, find out what he believes, who he is involved with, and then i think you might find that the Jedi,s have got him, but he has not turned out very nice at all. But it is not the Dark side that has swallowed him. It is simply his adherence to a tyrannical god of the desert and his fetish with returning the UK to a good old christian country, where people know their place, and the poor die in the gutter.

  33. “returning the UK to a good old christian country, where people know their place, and the poor die in the gutter.”

    But what of their children…

    http://gdl.cdlr.strath.ac.uk/haynin/haynin0211.htm

  34. I’m actually doing a thesis on what it means to be unemployed for those under the age of 25 – who actually are have it worse than those who are over that age. I wrote to Downing Street to get some information to what they’re doing to sort out the differences in unemployment entitlements for young people making a point of education, housing, benefits and training and work experience. I specifically asked for solutions to the hardest hit areas – Scotland and N. England and got an interesting 3 page response back which was laughable. The ignorance to the problem was more than apparent, with their thinking totally warped to their old fashioned ideas of the poor, under privileged and gravity of the situation. They clearly use the media as their source of information. They did not answer my question as to where they get their “facts” from because all the secondary analysis I have carried out myself before beginning my own research points to a totally different solution to the problems of not just youth unemployment, but unemployment as a whole. The UK has gone against the EU’s recommendations, which has benefited many countries.

    The Conservative government is a farce. And my mind still boggles as to how they ever won the last election and I hope people start to switch on to how backwards this country is becoming. Margaret Thatcher must be rubbing her hands together over a bubbling cauldron in pleasure that her legacy and doctrine still continues after 25 years…

    Anyway, I really liked this article and it made me laugh, because it was blunt and honest.

    I would say though that though you’re correct about drug use being evident in all classes, it is prominent in working classes because there is more of a problem with abuse rather than use. This is an after effect of social factors including poverty, joblessness and education etc. All factors are inter connected with each other and you can’t pinpoint the exact cause of any social problem….

    There’s a few comments on here about working, middle and upper class. I don’t believe there is such a thing is a middle class any more. There’s a polar divide now where there’s a small number of those who would really be “middle” class. If you’ve got savings in the bank, own some land, business etc and enjoy a few holidays abroad a few times a year, sure call yourself middle class. But I feel, for the majority of people, they’re working class, part of the class which sees people affected so badly by poverty even if they can’t relate to that themselves because they see themselves as living higher above the poverty line. Poverty shouldn’t just be seen in the monetary sense either. Poverty should been seen in a multidimensional sense such as education, leisure, free time, family time etc. We don’t live to work, we work to live and it’s an increasingly sad fact that most people these days are merely existing because work is all their life is.

    How great would it be to see the tables turned for 4 years, where we’ve got the elites who sit in parliament swapping homes and lives with drug abusers, job seekers, single parents, young people in care, elderly on state pensions etc. A huge scale Secret Millionaire! Would be fantastic just to open their eyes. But I know it would be disastrous because the country would be in total anarchy!

    • “The Conservative government is a farce.”

      The last government were NO better, they started it all. In truth all three main parties are working hand in hand in all this!. That the Labour party are now making out it is all so wrong…That is playing for votes at the next election, once in they will carry on as before, it will then be the Tories who will say, it is all so wrong!!!. Its all a big game to them all.

      “How great would it be to see the tables turned for 4 years, where we’ve got the elites who sit in parliament swapping homes and lives with drug abusers, job seekers, single parents, young people in care, elderly on state pensions etc.”

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/7176090/MP-Nadine-Dorries-hid-money-in-bra.html

      • It i down to the electoral system and Blair realising that to get elected it was more efficient to make Labour’s policies appeal to a key demographic of right-wing Tory voters in marginal constituencies than to try and convince people of the merits of traditional Labour policies. Then the Tories have to make their policies more right wing to get those voters back and Labour then has to … well, you get the picture

  35. Dear Mr Duncan Smith

    Unlike food and housing, acess to the Bible is not a basic human need. Oh, and the next time you go to confession to ask your God for forgiveness for all the wickness you’ve been inflicting lately – take a lawyer wih you.

  36. Marnie

    I’m old enough to know that the social swap experiment has been tried and televised many times with politicians from all classes experiencing life as an unemployed person on meager benefits, all failed miserably and ended up bumming money for the electricity meter or for drinks in the pub, others have tried life on the streets which was really heartbreaking to watch not the fake homeless undercover investigator but the people he encountered that were living rough. As densely populated as China is you never see them homeless even the rural ones who live in shacks are better off than those in Britain or America who criticize communist China, but for the amount of people it has to cater for they are doing better than we are, all credit to them. A book about 3 generations of chinese women entitled wild geese was one of the most enlightening books I have read in a long time, I forget the authoress but she was the third generation now living in Britain.

  37. correction the book was called wild swans and the authoress was Jung Chang.

  38. something survived...

    China has loads of homeless, called internal migrants…

  39. something survived.

    I knew people migrated from different provinces and rural communities in China but I thought the ever efficient communist party provided large holding centres for them until they were able to find accommodation. Some companies provide accommodation on the work premises – workhouses by any other name. I have googled it now to try and get a better perspective thanks for that.

  40. It is a good thing the RNLI are independent of government funding. I can just picture the edict coming down from Whitehall, oops sorry, from whatever profiteering company the government had put in charge, that if lifeboats were sent to the aid of someone adrift at seas clutching a life belt they were to take the lifebelt away to motivate the person to get to shore.

  41. Graham Hughes.

    By the same token and because of your independence ,you can refuse to throw a lifebelt to those from sinking yachts.

  42. Landless Peasant

    Actually, it’s Labour and Conservative that are two sides of the same coin. Forget the Lib-Dems, they’re no-one, but the Left V. Right paradigm of two party democracy is merely the Hegelian Dialectic being enacted.

  43. Landless peasant

    not everyone has studied philosophy and although I have, it did not include the hegelian dialectic. As far as the two party DEMOCRACY goes there is more consensus between these two parties who are supposed to be in opposition to one another, than there is between ukip and the Tories – therefore I see no dialectic, hegelian or otherwise being enacted. The only people both parties seem to be in opposition to are the sick and the unemployed and both are in consensus about kicking these downtrodden individuals.

  44. Pingback: Deborah Orr and Iain Duncan Smith – Two Sides of the Same Coin - Iain Duncan Smith

  45. Its time for facts:
    Every Labour government we’ve ever had, starting with the first 1923-1926, has left the country bankrupt.
    Every Tory government we’ve ever had has made the minority rich at the expense of the majority.
    When we had an empire Britain was made rich at the expense of the colonies and the colonies couldn’t wait to get rid of us. 1964 is the last year of Empire. Since then we’ve seen the growth of unemployment, the North-South divide and the nationalists.
    Neither of the main parties know how to run the economy for the benefit of the majority. Fundamental decisions that should have been made at the end of WWII and end of Empire were ignored.
    It was my considered opinion that as a result of so much mismanagment over so many years some form of crises point was inevitable. Then we had the general election and the more I see of this governments policies the more I believe we are heading for a crises point. Whatever it may be; civil war, Scottish war of independence. It would be easy to say the Torries are arrogant and stupid enough to provoke it but the truth is all the main parties are the same. Their snouts are so deep in the trough they can’t see whats going on.

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